The Bills PROBLEM with the 'TUSH PUSH', James Cook CONTRACT SAGA continues and CB draft PROSPECTS

Summary

Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills Podcast – April 1, 2025

Episode Theme:
This engaging episode dives into Buffalo Bills’ hot topics from the NFL Owners Meetings. The crew—Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, and Dan Fates—debate the Bills’ complex stance on the "Tush Push" quarterback sneak, dissect the ongoing contract saga around James Cook, and explore CB draft prospects. The discussion is rich with personal opinions, data deep-dives, and plenty of signature Buffalo Plus banter.

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Main Topics & Key Takeaways

1. The "Tush Push" Controversy (00:41–23:25)

Overview

• The episode’s central debate revolves around the Bills’—and Sean McDermott’s—strong push to ban the so-called "Tush Push" QB sneak, despite the Bills being one of the most frequent (and successful) users of the play after the Eagles.

Key Points & Insights

• Sean McDermott’s Stance (01:45, 02:17)
  • At the NFL Owners Meetings, McDermott advocates banning the Tush Push, citing "player safety"—despite a lack of data supporting increased injury risk.
  • Sean McDermott [02:17]: "My biggest concern is the health and safety of the players, first and foremost... we're going to always act in a way that's best for the health and safety of the players."
• Bills’ Contradiction (04:08, 04:14)
  • The panel is baffled: The Bills run the play the second-most in the league, yet push to ban it.
  • Jenna Cottrell [04:08]: "The fact that [McDermott] wants to ban the play, but also has been one of the teams that runs the play the most— that is where I don’t understand the logic."
• Competitive Advantage Discussion (13:08–14:35)
  • Mike argues the Bills have a unique competitive edge because Josh Allen excels at the play.
  • Mike Catalana [13:14]: “You have a competitive advantage over all these teams... Josh has never gotten hurt on that play.”
• Player Safety: Data Disconnect (07:24–10:03, 14:42–17:13)
  • No evidence supports increased risk with the Tush Push; the crew compares it to other high-injury plays that led to rule changes.
  • Dan Fates [14:42]: “There’s no data... that the Tush Push play is more dangerous than a quarterback scrambling.”
  • The NFL has overlooked proven injury risks elsewhere (like artificial turf).
• Is It Just Because of the Eagles? (07:33–08:01, 16:25)
  • The suggestion that the Bills (or others) want the play banned because the Eagles are too good at it—firmly rejected by the hosts.

Notable Quote

• Mike Catalana [14:00]: “He’s gotten hurt more when he tries to hurdle somebody. It makes zero sense. I don’t believe the injury part... For the Bills of all teams to be the ones who want to ban it, I think is absurd.”

Memorable Moment

• Dan Fates [10:41], referencing online pushback: “If we’re banning things some teams are good at and others aren’t, I’d add football in cold weather, winning playoff games, interceptions...”

Owners Meeting Dynamics

• The crew describes the chaotic, informal roundtable of the Owners Meeting (08:28), highlighting how McDermott became the focal point of coverage for his position.

2. James Cook Contract Saga (24:09–33:54)

Overview

• The hosts break down Brandon Beane’s candid update on contract talks with RB James Cook, dissect the philosophical and financial stances, and compare Cook’s situation to recent extensions for other Bills.

Key Points & Insights

• Beane’s Candidness (24:13–25:30)
  • No agreement with Cook’s camp; Beane stops short of promising any imminent negotiations.
  • Brandon Beane [24:13]: “Just because we don't have James signed today doesn't mean next year we still can't get him before he gets to free agency.”
• Player Leverage & Market Dynamics (27:11, 28:13)
  • The Bills retain leverage given Cook’s contract status and their track record with running backs.
  • Mike Catalana [28:13]: “He is the best of those running backs that they've had... but he's still a 40-some percent snap count guy.”
• Future Outlook and Draft Implications (27:21, 27:51)
  • The team’s draft moves—especially if they use a day-two pick on a running back—will be “very telling.”
• Buffalo’s "Fair Offer" Approach (29:12, 30:20)
  • Beane gives a number; if Cook wants more, the Bills won’t be held "hostage."
  • Mike Catalana [29:12]: “They’re just not going to be held hostage... at that position.”
  • Jenna Cottrell [30:20]: “There’s quite a large gap between where both sides are.”

Notable Quotes

• Dan Fates [26:44]: “That was as stern as I've ever seen Beane publicly be about a player.”

3. Christian Benford Deal & Contracting Philosophy (33:54–38:52)

Overview

• Using Benford’s extension as an example, the crew outlines how the Bills structure practical, “team-friendly” deals while providing security for emerging players.

Key Points

• Benford’s Security vs. Upside
  • Signing early offers “life-changing money”—especially for late-round picks.
  • Comparison to MLB contract philosophy: lock in security, even if you might make more waiting.
• General Contract Trend
  • Bean tries to extend before the final year; usually, deals that don’t get done by then, don’t get done at all.

Notable Quote

• Mike Catalana [34:42]: “A lot of guys sit at home and say, ‘You should wait it out.’ Wait till they offer you that money. See if you take it.”

4. NFL Draft: Cornerback Prospects (39:05–44:34)

Overview

• The trio debates potential cornerback prospects for the Bills, highlighting mid-round finds and the team’s defensive scheme needs.

Key Points

• Top Names & Fits

  • Maxwell Harrison (Kentucky): "I like the kid from Kentucky." – Dan (39:13)
  • Azariah Thomas (Florida State): “The Bills type—good tackler, physical, with size and speed.” – Mike (40:25)
  • Siobhan Ravel (East Carolina): Noted as a once top prospect dropped by injury.
  • Darien Porter (Iowa State): A 6th-year senior, WR-turned-cornerback with intriguing athletic upside but raw.

• Team Philosophy:

  • Bills won’t draft a corner who can’t tackle.
  • Scheme versatility (zone/man) factors heavily in their selection.

5. Notable Quotes & Signature Moments

• On Data vs. Narrative (07:24):
  • C: “It always sounds good when you say players health and safety, but you don't apply that really where it matters.”
• On Leveraging Strengths (13:54):
  • A: “What does Mina Kimes say about the Bills quarterback? He’s literally a Buffalo.”
• On Social Media Contract Expectations (26:51):
  • C: “But I did find that to be a very black and white comment... Like, it doesn't sound like we're going to be talking in week six about doing this."
• Philosophy on Waiting for a Bigger Contract (34:42):
  • A: “Wait till they offer you that money. See if you take it.”

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

| Segment / Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Tush Push Drama Introduction | 00:41–01:45 | | McDermott’s Owners Meeting Statement | 01:45–03:05 | | Hosts’ Data & Logic Dissection | 04:08–07:24 | | Owners Meeting Dynamics & NFL Context | 08:28–09:03 | | Competitive Advantage for Bills | 13:08–14:35 | | Notable Social Media Satire | 10:41 | | Consensus on Play’s Safety (No Data) | 14:42–17:13 | | What Happens Next / Usage in 2025? | 23:05–23:18 | | James Cook Contract Soundbite (Brandon Beane) | 24:13–25:30 | | Bills' Leverage & Extension Philosophies | 27:11–29:28 | | Team-Friendly Deals, Early Security | 33:54–34:42 | | Cornerback Prospects Discussion | 39:05–44:34 |

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Flow & Tone

• The hosts’ banter remains sharp and friendly—infused with sarcasm, sports analogies, and occasional playful baseball sidetracks.
• Language is casual and conversational, but the analysis is meticulous, referencing statistical evidence and front-office philosophy.
• The team maintains transparency about their opinions vs. what’s "out there" in Bills & NFL circles.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a dynamic primer to the current Bills landscape and NFL rule debate. You’ll walk away understanding:

• Why banning (or not banning) the Tush Push is such a big deal—and why the Bills’ position is controversial.
• Where James Cook’s contract situation stands, and how the team builds their roster with tough financial choices.
• Which CBs to watch as draft season heats up and how the Bills’ defense might evolve.

If you care about the intersection of football logic, front-office strategy, and the quirkiest moments at NFL owners meetings, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[A]

Your point is so legitimate.

[B]

Well, I know it's a bad point, but I'm just like, it makes no sense to me. This is something that is advantageous for your team and you say it's player safety, but then when you look at what the data backs up, it doesn't back up your claim.

[C]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast brought to you by Connors and Ferris.

[B]

Right. Welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share.

[C]

40,000.

[B]

Woo. We.

[C]

We're approaching. That's the next goal.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Yes. So we are closing. We're going to talk about the NFL owner meetings, what's gone down, some James Cook stuff, some contract stuff, a little draft prep as well, talking corners. But I feel like we have to start with the news of the day as we record this on Monday. And that is the Tush push and all of the. Can we call it drama?

[C]

Yeah, we have to talk about the drama of pushing Tushes. Yep. I did that as a tease the one time before a six o' clock show. Big laughs, tough to get through.

[A]

Yeah, news people do like to laugh.

[C]

They.

[A]

Yeah, no one fakes la fake laughs more than news people.

[B]

For the record, though, that was not a fake laugh.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Tushing the pushing of tushes.

[B]

All right, do you want to get.

[C]

No, I want you to go first.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Because I've got hot takes on it. Yeah, Mike has hot takes on it. So you've been sitting here saying.

[B]

I've literally said.

[A]

No, go ahead.

[B]

I thought you were gonna interrupt.

[A]

I was just gonna say. I was just gonna say. Explain. The main reason we're talking about is because the center of the whole freaking thing is Sean McDermott.

[B]

Yeah. So it was originally the packers proposal to ban the Tush push. Now, Sean McDermott is on the NFL's Competition, Competition Committee and he talked about how he is in favor of banning the Tush push. Now, Sean McDermott has said it revolves around player safety. The pushback is, is that there's no data to support that. It is about the health and safety of the players. So down today at the owners meetings in Florida, a lot of reporters were asking about McDermott, hey, why do you feel this way? McDermott talked about how. Well, he said this.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, I feel. I think similar to how I felt at the combine Done. You know, I've dove deeper into more of the data on it and, you know, just thought more about it as well. And my position hasn't really changed at all. You know, I feel where I'm most concerned is even though there's not significant data out there, to this point, my biggest concern is the health and safety of the players, first and foremost. So there's. There's different forms of it out there. I know we are one of the teams that people identify that run it. That's fair. You know, there's other teams as well. So I just. Look, we're going to. We're going to always act in a way that's best for the health and safety of the players. And. And I think that's the responsible way to go.

[B]

So you could see why people were confused and it got a bit contentious at moments, was because what Sean McDermott is saying and what the data backs things up, they are not the same. So I guess we'll start with me, and I know Mike and Dan have hot takes or takes around this. I guess for me, I'm. Or maybe not hot takes, but I don't. I don't have. I don't know what to say. Like, I don't have an opinion on this, but I'm so confused. And maybe this is because I am naive, but the fact that Sean McDermott is saying one thing and the evidence so clearly does not support that. I don't think it's strictly that the Eagles are really, really good at it, because that's like a piece of the game. You have to be the best to be the best and win. So that, to me, doesn't make sense. And I guess I'm just kind of sitting here like, why does McDermott say it's health and safety when obviously the data does not support that? And so that's why, in my mind, I don't understand. I don't understand.

[C]

You don't understand why his stance.

[B]

Why his stance. Is that because the Bills are the team that runs it second most behind the Eagles?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And the fact that he wants to ban the play, but also has been one of the teams that runs the play the most. That is where I don't understand the logic and what we know. Sean McDermott is usually a guy that's dictated by logic. So that's where the disconnect is in my mind.

[C]

Yeah, well, the. The first sweating crux of my position is the fact of. Sean is made several points at times in his answers today, which the NFL owners meeting is bananas in the sense of the way that it is set up where it is just a roundtable of people Walking around asking questions from a literal round, every different direction that Sean's answering questions from, from reporters from all across the league. He was very clear, Mike, that they run a form of it, a version of the tush Bush, that they don't run it like the Eagles, which to me is. I remember when this, when the official rule proposal was submitted. And I think over the last three years the Eagles had run it 108 times. The Bills were second at 150 or at 55 times. That is more than half of the league is those two, those two teams that run it. So my first thought was, are you kind of biting off your nose despite your face? Like this is a play that you have at your, in your tool belt because you have a 6 foot 5 unicorn as a quarterback. And then Sean's constantly talking about the variation in the way that they run it. But then he's also clear to say that quarterback sneaks have been around forever. Where I do get confused is. And what it does at times feel like. And that's. I understand when other teams are doing it. Or I can make the point of you're just butt hurt because another team is better at this, which is stupid because if that's the case, we should outlaw no look, no look throws because of the safety. Because, you know, linebackers and cornerbacks aren't looking where the ball is. Like so, So I have problems with that to go along with Sean who said that he had, you know, had looked more into the data even though there's not a lot of data there to support the injury. And then is the injury more concerned about the quarterback? Is it more about the lineman? Is it the posture at which they, the force is. Those kind of things confuse me. I don't think the play should be banned. I don't think that this has reached some epidemic level. Proportion of injuries. And it always sounds good when you say players health and safety, but you don't apply that really where it matters. And so that's where I'm confused as to the, the outcry for banning this play when there isn't really kickoffs. There were concussions, there were guys being paralyzed because of wedges. Concrete data that you want. This is an unsafe play we have to get rid of. It totally makes sense. I haven't seen any of that data. And that's where to me, I don't understand the logic behind banning this play.

[B]

And I also feel like, I don't think Sha McDermott would be like, the Eagles are too good at it. We have to remove it. And that's why. Do you agree with that?

[C]

Yes. And there was also a report that on Sunday at the owner's meeting, there was an animated conversation between Howie Roseman, an Eagles assistant gm, that this was something a. And what did they call it? What was the report?

[B]

There was an animated conversation.

[C]

Animated conversation. Sean said it was not animated. It's just football guys talking. You know, they're just passionate Italians, you know, kind of thing.

[B]

Sean McDermott.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Known Italian.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So. So I don't know. And, Mike, I want you to take the floor. And then I do have my sarcasm and hot takes to come back with.

[B]

Take Mike's one shot. That is a man who's been patient. Go ahead.

[A]

Maybe it's taken more patients than any time in the history of Buffalo plus. But I wanted you guys to get your points out. I agree with a lot of what you've said.

[C]

You also. I mean, we did start the podcast. You interrupted Jenna before she even spoke. I was just. We can replay the video.

[A]

But all I. The only reason I interrupted her was because I wanted people to know. The point was it's Sean McDermott, which is a big part of what I'm saying. He is the focus. You talked about the NFL owners meetings at a roundtable because for most years, was a couple of writers around the coaches. It was very informal. And like everything else, the NFL is 24 7, 365, so people show up. So they haven't caught up yet with the way to handle media down there. They try to make it relaxed. It's not relaxed, but Sean was by far the. The biggest story today.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

All right, I will start with this. The health and safety part, I think is absurd 100%. Now, of all the people that all of you guys know, no one has seen more of these plays probably than me, because I. I watch the Bills every snap of every Bills game, and then eventually I watch every snap of an Eagles game. That's just the way it is. I've never seen a guy get hurt in it. The comical thing to me was if everybody remembers in the AFC NFC championship game, when I believe the Eagles put up 55 on Washington, there was a play down near the goal line where the linebacker for Washington kept trying to jump over the line. And the comical thing to me was people saying that was the point when people started talking about the safety and the injury to players. Are we kidding ourselves here? It wasn't the play. It was the absurd reaction of the Washington defender, which eventually led to them saying, if you do that again, we're going to just give them the touchdown.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sean McDermott talks about the injury part.

[C]

I.

[A]

Here's a. Here's. I'll make a football comparison. Quarterbacks get protected. They do, right? The league knows you need the quarterbacks to be healthy. So why don't we eliminate quarterback runs 100%, because there is data that says when a quarterback runs, he can get hurt. Well, second, not everybody runs like Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson or any of those players. I succeed. I secede. No. Is that the right. Oh, my God. I cede my time to the gentleman from Webster, New York. Go ahead. You want to say something?

[C]

No, because that was one of my sarcastic comments that I made because there was a great reporter out there and I just want to give the credit to the. To the tweet. Let me find it real quick. It was up and then I lost it. Brittany Baby said if she works for the Miami Dolphins. If we're banning things that some teams are good at and others aren't, I'd like to add some things to this band list. Football in cold weather, winning playoff games, interceptions, being able to convert on short downs, having a good backup quarterback, having a good old line. Like your point about, like, quarterback shouldn't be able to run. Derek Henry shouldn't be allowed to run. Well, because people get injured trying to.

[A]

But no, no, but, but, no. The reason my comparison is different is because there are rules in place to specifically protect the quarterbacks. So that's already there. The way you hit them, the way you tackle them. That doesn't apply to Derek Henry. Applies to quarterbacks. So if you said we're not allowing quarterbacks to run or it's, you know, it's too. And touch when they get out of the pocket, you might say, well, wait a minute. Josh Allen runs through tackles, runs over people. It's a disadvantage to the Bills. That is a place where health and safety come into play. And I just have not seen it on this play make any other argument you want. You don't like the way the play looks or whatever. I will tell you this. The most embarrassing thing said this whole time is by the soft franchise in of all places, the home of Vince Lombardi, Green Bay, where Murphy, Mark Murphy, the team president, I think he still is, said the play means uses no skill and it's basically. What was the word he used for it? That it's automatic. Well, we know it's not automatic. And listen, the Eagles are in this frame of time in their history where they have the best offensive line. They have a quarterback who can squat 600 pounds. They have the best offensive line coach. That's why it works. When guys are out or Kenny Pickett was in there. It didn't work as well. It's a different play. They're just really good at it. And Nick Sirianni really pushed back before him, and he was like, I'm pissed off that people think we don't practice this play. He's right. And for the Bills of all teams to be the ones who want to ban it, I think is absurd.

[B]

That's why I don't get it, though. Why and why do they want to ban it?

[A]

Here was my biggest point with the Bills. It's Everything in this league is about competitive advantage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I'm going to name teams. You tell me if they run this play. Kansas City Chiefs.

[C]

No.

[A]

Baltimore Ravens.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

No. They do not run the push with him.

[C]

They run it with Andrews.

[A]

It's different. And they run it once in a blue moon. I'm talking about the quarterback doesn't like my answer, but no, because they probably ran it eight times all year. The Eagles run it consistently. As if they don't. It's not in Lamar's hands. Cincinnati Bengals?

[C]

No.

[A]

Miami Dolphins?

[C]

No.

[A]

Right. Buffalo Bills.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. You have a competitive advantage over all these teams. What does Mina Kaim say about the Bills quarterback? He's literally a Buffalo.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That was her line, right? Yeah. And Josh has never gotten hurt on that play.

[C]

Nope.

[A]

He's gotten hurt more when he tries to hurdle somebody. It makes zero sense. I don't believe the injury part. And by the way, it's funny that Troy Vincent is the guy from the NFL.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Who played for Sean McDermott in Philly and was a member of the Buffalo Bills. So he's got history with both franchise. In this case, I'm stunned. I was stunned at the combine when Sean said it, and I'm stunned now that he's digging in on it. About the injury part. And I think it's a. A competitive advantage for the Bills. Absolutely.

[C]

Against these other teams, it's like biting off your nose despite your fate face. But there's also not the data that backs it up.

[A]

The injury part.

[C]

The injury part. So I looked at it, too, and I said, we're always worried about the health and safety of our players and things like that. Then the competition committee should look at artificial turf. We've gone on and on and on about this. There is a direct correlation and stats and data that back up. There are More injuries to your ACLs, Achilles and all those kind of things when you're on artificial turf, compared to natural grass, it's cut and dry, black and white. There is no data right now that shows that. That the tush push play is more dangerous than a quarterback scrambling out of the pocket that could get hit. I do not understand that logic behind it. And they throw the veil of players health and safety.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, just doesn't make sense to me. And if you want to outlaw the play, like I said, the soft Green Bay packers, you can put them on the list. Mike, I love that. It. I. I can understand you. We don't like it because we can't stop it and we don't run it. Fine. There are tons of rules that get proposed because we're not good at it. So we want to change.

[A]

I think I understand that the NBA should limit three pointers because the Celtics are too good at it.

[C]

And Steph Curry, he should be allowed.

[A]

To shoot five, five a game. Y max.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. That's why I was so confused around it because I was just.

[A]

Your point is so legitimate.

[B]

Well, I know it's a bad point, but I'm just like, it makes no sense to me. This is something that is advantageous for your team and you say it's player safety, but then when you look at what the data backs up, it doesn't back up your claim. That's why I'm like, what is the missing piece? Because I actually, I. I genuinely don't think Sean McDermott is like, the Eagles are too good at this. We need to take this out of the game plan.

[A]

No, and you said it in like 45 seconds and I said it in six minutes or whatever I went off on. I'm just stunned it comes from Sean. Listen, I do believe that man takes his role in that comp competition committee seriously. I just think if you. They said, well, let's look at the data, and then the data comes back like, no injuries on the play.

[C]

And that's the thing. Sean said he's looked into the data while also admitting there's not much data out there. So. And again, I'm with you, Jenna, because Sean is a very methodical, systematic. He does look at the numbers, the data to decide players, their snap counts. They look at all the analytics.

[B]

He's logic based. Yes, but this is illogical.

[A]

And by the way, him saying they run a different version of it, I guess you would do it differently. That's why I say when the Eagles run it it's different with Kenny Pickett or whoever their backup was than it is with Jalen. Hurts because of his. Josh Allen is taller, bigger, stronger, and of course, it ends up being obviously a key play in that Chiefs game. And by the way, in the Chiefs game, they. They ran it. He was getting pushed from behind, and they still didn't get the. Well, they weren't credited with the first down. So while it may be slightly different, it isn't like the competition committee is saying, we need to make adjustments on this play, whatever that is. Right. Whatever they say it is. And they changed the rule about pushing a player from behind offense probably eight or 10 years ago to allow it. So that has been in play for a while. By the way, the Bills do that, too. I mean, we've seen Dion, like, grab guys and throw them forward. Not part of a tush push play, just a regular play.

[C]

And nobody's gotten hurt. And we all applaud the effort.

[A]

Yeah, like.

[C]

And again, I. I do understand that the Eagles, it is much more between the center and guard. Josh goes more guard and tackle. That has kind of been for whatever reason. And. And that's probably partly because of Conor McGovern, that they've talked about it before, the way that he snaps. What's comfortable for him? The. That was. Another thing about the Eagles is you lost Kelsey. Would you still be able to do it? Yeah, it's the technique. And so, again, if, if, if there will be a small tweak to the rule, the lining up of the formation, the stance, the posture, all of those things. But again, the big thing that the NFL has tried to eliminate for the safety of players is the head contact. The open field guy getting collisions, clotheslined, and his head taken off in the middle of the field. But this is this rugby play where you're very close to one another. You're not. I mean, how many times do we see it? Even if Trail Bernard or Matt Milano makes a play, you're like, that's a car accident on the football field. Two guys running full speed. These guys are inches apart and pushing each other. And one side's better at it than the other because the other knows the snap count. Like, there's so many other things. And I. When I think about the tush push and the way the Eagles are doing it, I never think and watch it going, hope somebody doesn't get injured here.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But there's balls that are thrown over the middle where I'm like, that's a hospital pass. Yeah, like somebody's gonna get carted off the field.

[B]

I'd be curious to talk to the players just to hear their point of view, because I, I, I just. Yeah, it just doesn't. The math ain't math. And, and maybe it is, like, you're just, you know, but even that, again, there's not the data to support that. There's like actual.

[A]

Yeah. Every play there's, I mean, I never.

[B]

Thought I'd say data so much.

[A]

Yeah, but it's every play there is. And look, and it's.

[C]

I still think it's data when that's your argument and there's none to support it. That's what's tough for me to comprehend. And again, I'm not sitting here saying, like, Sean McDermott is at fault or anything like that. It just, like Jenna said, very logical, very analytical, smart thinking, head coach is just not applying that, in my opinion, to what this is.

[A]

And to go back to it, number one, by the time you're watching this, they're voting on it on Tuesday. So you may already know. Like, we don't know at the moment. I don't think it's going to be banned. It was funny that Sirianni mentioned three of his former coaches who got head coaching jobs in part because of the play, which had obviously helped the team.

[C]

I mean, Gannon and, And Kellen Moore.

[A]

Kellen Moore.

[C]

They all better vote against it because that's how they got their jobs. Yeah.

[A]

So they only need. What do they need? 9. 9, including the Eagles, 24 and some other ones. You know, hey, Washington's gonna have to deal with it. He said, I'm not against the play.

[B]

Aaron Glenn. Yeah.

[A]

And so did Houston coach.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He's like, just because somebody's good. To Jenna's point, this is because they're good at it, or. You said it. Good at it doesn't mean you ban the play. I don't know if it'll get banned. But at the same time, the point was about the health and safety. I keep going back to the competitive advantage for the Bills. These other teams do not do it, and the Bills do. Even if they do it in a way that they believe maybe is less stressful on Josh. I don't know where the offensive line. It worked a lot.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Until it needed to be, but it worked a lot. Why would you want that out of the game? Kansas City sitting there going, take that play out, man. We don't have to worry about Buffalo running that on us. Because they don't even run quarterback sneaks.

[C]

Correct. It's not Going to eliminate the fact that a quarterback can't take a snap and go forward. Like, so I'm wondering where is. And I guess maybe that if to play devil's advocate whether it's the posture of the. The offensive line, the response posture, because somebody asked like, well, Sean, is it the offensive lines posture or the defensive lines posture? And he goes, well, if one lines up one way, you're going to react to it with, you know, the best way that you see fit. So. And again, Chris Jones was lining up sideways in the Super Bowl. That didn't work. Like, again, I don't know. It's.

[A]

They didn't run it very often in the Super Bowl.

[C]

Didn't have to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But did not have to.

[A]

So we'll.

[C]

You'll.

[A]

You may know this. It'll be probably late tomorrow after we're recording this on Monday, Tuesday afternoon. Yeah.

[C]

Vote or not. You can listen to this if you're listening to it on Wednesday. Our points, whether it's approved or not still stand of. There's no data that shows it is a dangerous play to the level and extent of injuries to be concerned about the health and safety of players.

[A]

Now, Jenna, I want to ask you this. It gets. Doesn't get Bard. You're allowed to run it next year.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do the Bills run?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I literally knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You run it because it works.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They have the guy. It should work every time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or close to it. You know, that's true.

[B]

Okay. Anything else on this topic?

[C]

Now the owners meeting just seems weird like that just they're all set up. Was just very chaotic.

[B]

You know what, though? That's like how it was at the Super Bowl.

[A]

Remember they used to put them at. Well, they still do put some players.

[B]

Some players at podiums and other guys are just like at a table where you're like, they just have to sit there and wait and see who comes up to them.

[A]

If anybody does. Yeah.

[B]

Sean McDermott wearing the flat brim, too.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[C]

And Jordan's in the picture.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Who is this guy?

[B]

Swag.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. The other news of kind of the NFL owners meeting so far has been Brandon Beans comments on James Cook. Sean or Sean. Brandon was asked about the possibility of an extension with James Cook. Obviously we can get into a little bit. Christian Benford just getting signed over the weekend. We have that sound bite, right?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Okay. Here is what Brandon Bean had to say.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, just like I said, Andy, I love Jimbo. Proud of his success. Just like these other guys that we Got extended. And I don't talk about negotiations. I would say, you know, his reps and him put it out there that we did talk. So that's. I'm not sharing anything new. It didn't lead to anything as far as, you know, closing in on a deal. And so we moved on to the guys that, you know, we were more on the same page with. And, you know, at this point, Sal, we're. We're on to the draft. You know, once we got Benford done and, you know, we're going to. I don't see us doing any deals anytime soon. We're going to focus on the draft and getting our, our cap in order, planning for how we, you know, how we cut the 53 down. Because like I've told you guys, even though we have cap space today, it's on top 51. And so depending on how many players we draft where they, you know, who we see having the best chance to unseat players and what that looks like at a 53 cut, we got a plan for that as well. So, you know. But again, just because we don't have James signed today doesn't mean next year we still can't get him done before he gets to free agency.

[B]

I would say that was pretty candid.

[A]

I loved it. And I said to you guys, I don't think it's about the social media. It's about the numbers. When, when, when he sat there with. With. And listen, James Cook can ask for whatever he wants to ask for.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

I've seen some people hinting at sitting out in camp and all that kind of stuff. That's not going to impact the Bills. That will. They could. You can do that. He's got a year left on his contract. I'm sure they put a number out there or at least the parameters of numbers.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

That they would be willing to go with. Obviously, these other guys have accepted those deals. James Cook has every right to say no, but it doesn't seem like it was close for him to say, yeah, okay, so we'll let it sit there. We're going into the draft. It's a lot of running backs in the draft too.

[C]

That was as Johnny, you said candid. I would almost say stern as I've ever seen being publicly be about a player about. Even when it was Poyer, it was like we'd love to have him back possibly. And Bean did say that at the end of. That doesn't mean we can't get something done before the end. Jimbo loves Jimbo. They Always start with that. Love the guy.

[B]

But imagine if they were ever like, you know what? I'm just not a fan, you know what?

[C]

Oh, you want to talk about actually.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. He's a jerk. No, I was kidding. Like. But I, I did find that to be a very black and white comment of just, hey, we're not going to get anything done right now. We're focused on the draft. We'll look to get something done before next season when he hits free agency. Like, it doesn't sound like we're going to be talking in week six about.

[B]

Doing this and that doesn't mean that that can happen. But I just think the Bills still have all of the leverage.

[A]

Yes. And their history has been to not sign those running backs.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

End of April. And that draft in Green Bay will be very telling. We always talk about it. Money talks. They may say something. I thought money and decisions. Yes. But I thought it was last year we were like, hey, they could draft a right tackle. Like, hey, you know, what do you think about Spencer Brown? Oh, we love him. It was a back injury, all these things. And I was like, if they draft a right tackle, that's what they really think about Spencer Brown. They didn't. And Spencer Brown played well. They were right. And, and all those things. They draft a running back in the third round. That'll be very telling to me.

[A]

Yeah. Because they don't have a third round pick. Sorry, that was. Sorry, sorry. That was very good.

[B]

Michael.

[C]

If you think I know what rounds they have picks it you're.

[A]

But they do have the two in the second and there are a lot of backs. And listen, I do believe they really like James Cook. And I will say this, I don't know if you guys agree.

[C]

He is the best by a 60 year old.

[A]

He is the best of those running backs that they've had.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

Singletary, Moss, Cook, Davis. He's drafted four running backs since 2018.

[A]

He's. He's made more explosive plays, bigger plays. The touchdown in the championship game was spectacular. Yeah, he is that guy. But we've also talked about he's still a 40 some percent snap count guy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And also Dan mentioned it. The Ty Johnson. You signed Ty Johnson, they want him out on the field for those plays. It's not like Ty Johnson. And listen, I like Ray Davis too. We don't know if Ray Davis can handle the, the 40% of the snaps and being that guy. But they're going to put out a number. They'll probably adjust. There'll be that point where, right. You say your number, this what? Bean has a number in March to April of 2025 that he would pay him.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now that doesn't mean at another point, as it gets to another time of the year that they wouldn't go up. They say, hey, we go to here, do we have a deal? They probably would go up because I do think they like the player. But you're right. At that position, they're just, they're not going to be held hostage.

[B]

That's the thing. It's the position. Somebody was asking me like, oh, are you surprised? I'm like, honestly, not really because of the position. And what was, you know, put out there by James Cook about the number. And you see also the Bills, the deals that they have done this, this offseason have been incredibly team friendly. I know we're going to touch on Christian Benford in a moment, but like when you look at what other guys are doing because they want to be in Buffalo, they want to stay with Bills. Mind you, they're getting paid. But also at the same point, it's not the numbers that we expected or projected. And then to have someone else at that position saying, I want top dollar, I want to be paid as a top three back. Look, James Cook, great season last year, 16 touchdowns. Do you think he can do that again? That's the biggest question. And then what will he want to do after that? What, what would the payment be like? And it's just feels like there is quite a large gap in between where both sides are.

[C]

And history usually says, and I know I talk about this every time guys come up or they're approaching their final year, usually Bean gets it done. And they usually don't play that final year unless they're coming back. Like, like the, the example was always Tremaine Edmonds and it was like, well, we'll try and get something done. They didn't get something done. And to me that was like writing on the wall. They didn't get sending something done with Poyer. It was a one year deal. And I just feel like a lot of times if Bean wants to get it done, it gets done before they enter that final year. Usually it doesn't linger into the season. Usually they don't sign a guy or extend a guy in the middle of the year when he's on his last year of his contract. So that's just something to think about. The track record of Bean, if he.

[B]

Wanted to, he would.

[C]

Your favorite.

[A]

And the other part about that is James Cook, obviously there's a number that he would like and I think he thinks he can get that from another team in the time it takes you.

[C]

To actually board a flight from Group.

[B]

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[A]

You could have bought a Hyundai on Amazon. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

[C]

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[A]

The guys who get that money where we're not talking about a good deal for a player who has had very. Who's had very good, good to very good. I mean, we're talking about a thousand yards he got in the last game. It's a thousand yards. It's not 1500, 2000. He doesn't get that. So what's his value on the open market?

[B]

I mean, I think he can. Some team would over like, some team would pay.

[C]

I agree.

[A]

Because gotten overpaid are the guys who are giving you I overpaid the means Saquon got 13 to leave the Giants and people were like, Whoa, 13 for a running back. But he's Saquon Barkley, just like Derrick Henry, just like Christian McCaffrey.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

These guys are. It's like, we all love Khalil Shakir, but then there's Jamar Chase. Like, we're not talking about the same position here. Doesn't mean guys can't put up other numbers. So that part will be sitting out there for him. And, you know, it's. It's running backs now going into their fifth, sixth and seventh years.

[B]

And I was just looking at the franchise tags, like, if they wanted to after next year, if that were to be the case, the projected franchise tags in 2026 would be 14.2.

[A]

So they'd let him walk.

[C]

Yeah, I agree. And I also think, like, I don't have any issues with James wanting the money that he wants.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And betting on himself. And also maybe seeing the running back market change and if the pendulum does swing back and some team does want to invest, like, I'm all for that. Like, I'm. I'm not sitting here going, james Cook is crazy. No. Maybe you at home who have already liked, commented and subscribed, like, what are your thoughts on. Do you want a deal to get done? It doesn't seem like it's going to happen before training camp. I'd be surprised now if that happens. But yeah.

[A]

Because at this point, the Bills have. It's not a line in the sand. They've given their number. Yep. Now, unless James Cook wants to lower his. The closer it gets to the season and into the season, sort of the more pressure is on the Bills there. Because the question then is, are you just letting him become a free agent? You can say once you become a free agent, well, now it's on you because now you got to get somebody to pay you that money.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And believe me, these agents talk to other people. Even though he's under contract with the Bills, like, they'll know what's out there. And maybe it happens. I do think it goes back to even like Benford to say it's one thing for us to say this guy could get a lot more, but you're sitting there looking at how many millions guaranteed and no risk of injury going forward for that year. You're talking about generational money. We can all say, hey, wait it out. You could get more. Greg Russo could have gotten a lot more. Certainly Christian Benford could have. It's also a lot of money. A lot of money in your pocket takes it all away. You like where you are. I think it's the way they think sometimes.

[C]

The only baseball analogy I'll make today, and it's because my Braves are absolutely anemic.

[A]

Three games into the season, four.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, they've played four.

[C]

Yeah. They haven't scored in 20 innings, though.

[A]

Oh, that's not good, right?

[C]

Not great.

[B]

I. It's so. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, hold on.

[B]

It's too much.

[A]

NFL, just ban the torpedo bats.

[C]

Oh, I, I want nine of them for every hitter in the Braves lineup. That being said, it. I was explaining to my wife yesterday about.

[A]

Oh, I bet she loved this conversation.

[C]

Well, it was. It's the same thing, Mike, you're talking about. It's those, the way the contracts are. And again, players, especially baseball players, are paid pennies for their first six years in the league. And they talk about when their arbitration kicks in and when they can go to free agency. The Braves, they have, what they have done is a guy plays 40 good games or a top prospect, they pay him a seven year deal for 77 million, whereas in six years they probably could get 250 million. But they say, we'll give you this. Now you're, you're, you're tied to us, but you're no longer making $100,000 a year. You're making 11 million. So it's not as much as the 20 million that you could get a year in a few years, but we'll give you the money right now. So, like your point with Benford, like Benford gets a big bump this year. Like, that's a great deal for the Bills. You get the security of the player and Benford gets the big raise and the. The sure money in his hand.

[A]

And Jenna, he's a sixth round pick out of Villanova.

[C]

Yeah, go Cats.

[A]

Right. And so he's never gotten paid.

[C]

No.

[A]

I mean, again, the numbers that you look at, it's like this year he was going to make 4 million with the upgrade, but he. He'd make more. Now, I do believe once a player has gotten paid, they can take more of a risk.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

You've already gotten money.

[C]

Like what Josh said.

[A]

Yeah. You can, you can be. You can sit there and go, I am very, very comfortable with the amount of money I've made. I can wait it out, because guess what? Christian Benford's still a pretty young player in about three years.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Four years. He could still be.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

He might even be a better player.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't know how it goes, so. Or Greg Russo. The same thing as he's young. Like, you never know how it works out. But yeah, a lot of guys sit at home and say, you should wait it out. Okay. Wait till they offer you that money. See if you take it.

[C]

Renee was stunned that Max Freed wasn't on the the Braves anymore. And I said, well, he got 213 reasons to go pitch somewhere else and $213 million to go play somewhere else. And she's like, well, how much did the Braves offer? I go, less than that. I was like, it was less. And she's like, well, like, didn't you like it? Then I go, even if the bra offered 2, 210, it's still $3 million. Like, I know we joke around about, like, the grand scheme of, like, yeah, sports, it's a million dollars. What's a million dollars?

[A]

A million dollars.

[B]

But it is. I also could see if you really loved it somewhere and 100%.

[C]

But it's also generational wealth.

[A]

I. Yeah.

[C]

And I get it. Like, fandom. Like, follow my Twitter account during a Braves gape. Like, it is. It is pure, uncut fandom.

[B]

It is a drunk carney operating a roller coaster.

[A]

So do you think a podcast.

[B]

No.

[A]

With Dan and Renee talking Braves would be.

[B]

Honestly, it would probably. That would probably.

[C]

If we were to set up like.

[B]

A GoPro, that would probably do pretty.

[A]

Well finding, like, you irrational.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They're talking about their. Their cute baby and what their wife said.

[C]

But again, there was a guy that played the second game of the Nick Allen and I Literally said, I don't know who this guy is, and he's called up some minor leaguer. And Renee goes, I think I've seen that guy before. You have it? I follow this team extensively.

[A]

She goes, sounds like a name you would have heard. Oh, it's Nick Allen. Yeah, like.

[C]

But again, they're playing the Padres. She goes, I know that guy. You don't. You don't know that guy.

[B]

She goes, okay, but we like the.

[C]

Confidence as I'm like, sweating out, like, another at bat where they're not getting a hit.

[A]

Did Nick Allen come through for him in that spot?

[C]

He had one of the two hits in the game.

[A]

Oh, okay. Ready to go, Nick.

[B]

Renee knew.

[C]

She's like, that guy used to play for this team. Nope. He's got a brother. No, no. But keep going, Renee.

[B]

All right, let's talk a little bit about cornerbacks because the draft is coming up. We know, obviously, the bill is addressed Christian Benford. But Mike has some data, some analytics to break down, too.

[C]

I have one corner I like.

[A]

Go ahead.

[C]

I don't know his name, but I figured he's on your sheet. I just want to add that to it. The kid from Kentucky.

[A]

Yeah, he's very good.

[C]

I like the kid from Kentucky.

[A]

The kid from Kentucky is Maxwell Harrison.

[C]

Yeah, there. There's my analysis. Yeah, I. I tough can tackle his. Can play, press, can play off. I like it.

[A]

So when you look at the way these corners have been evaluated by people, it really only appears to be one guy. And if you want to consider him a corner from Colorado, is he a corner? Is he a wide receiver that's going to go in the top three picks? Everybody else, like you usually in most of the mock drafts, in most of the places, you don't see another corner come up in most cases till well into the 20s.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think there are players with ability, and you do look at and say, how does it fit? I do think you start reading about some of the players. So there's a guy, Azariah Thomas of Florida State, 611 97. He's an athlete. They said he and Keon had some real battles in camp last year. Them. Good speed, great ball skills, all these things. Like, he is. You watch his highlights, you see a guy who can play the football.

[C]

Does he have oily hips?

[A]

I did not see that as one of things. But, you know, he does have size and speed. But you look at and say, what's the difference between that player and the guy who would go top 10 in a draft? And sometimes I think it's experience, but he looks like the Bills type of player. Good tackler, physical player. Because they are not going to draft a corner who can't tackle.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You see some of the other guys. Siobhan Ravel, East Carolina.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

62194. Tore his ACL in September and he.

[C]

Was supposed to be the top again, whatever you consider Travis Hunter and things of that. But he was thought of, that was a name that I had heard of going into the season as this guy could be an all American out of ecu and the fact of he could be one of the top corners taken off the class. And again, I also think guys like you talk about your boy over at. From Toledo.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You can find talent in those positions that have gone up against it.

[A]

Yeah, there, there are some other players. It's. It's fascinating to see because I, when I say that, like, if the Bills draft a guy who they, you know, most scouts would say he's not a man coverage guy and all, maybe that would tell you a little bit about what their thoughts are because I know there's a lot of thoughts that the Bills will try to play more man coverage. The fascinating guy that I have found in this is a guy named Darien Porter out of Iowa State. He was a wide receiver for three years. He's in his sixth year. I think he had a red shirt year, so he's a little bit older. He's physically, he's got everything. He did not start at corner in college football until his sixth year. That's nuts because he had played as a backup, but he's got size. He's been considered his own guy because he hasn't played that much defensive back. I'm always looking at a player like that is how far does he fall? Does somebody just fall in love with him? Because I'm telling you, I have seen people have him late in the first round and in the fourth round. I think we've seen this with all these type of players. So these are the type of players but the two I like the most, Ravel and Thomas, I just think they seem to be. I like that they both have speed and they're taller. I think those players would fit depending on how aggressive they are. But the way he talked about Rasul Douglas today was more like, hey, Rasul's out there looking to see what's a good situation. It wasn't like there was ongoing contract discussion.

[B]

No. I mean, that doesn't shock me though either. I also wonder about they can do down the line.

[C]

Yeah, I wonder about that friendship, too, because Rasul and Christian became very close.

[A]

Right.

[C]

They were both very open about not really knowing each other that much, but the bond over their. Their sons and hanging out. And obviously you are so close with some those people in your position group. You always talk about how close a team is, and I've heard other former players talk about it. It's like the offense doesn't always hang out that much with the defense because it's who you're in meetings rooms with and all those kind of things. But obviously Rasool and Benford had a very close bond. Knowing that Benford's locked up. I don't know. Again, we talk about the money. It's like it's a million dollars. Like, where does playing with friends and your comfort level. Also, Raul may not know he's a free agent. That is. That is a possibility. We're not sure if he knows he's a free agent.

[B]

I'm not beyond that. I think he might be like, oh.

[A]

As opposed to putting an asterisk at the bottom of the page here. During. Was it during camp?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That he said. Somebody said, well, you're in a contract year. And he was like, am I in a contract year? And we kind of believed him because he certainly.

[B]

I believed it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He was like, oh, you can't believe what men say. Yeah.

[C]

Well, it'd be funny if like, RA is like, yeah, I'm just going back to Fisher.

[A]

And yeah, he just shows up.

[B]

Christian can't wait.

[A]

Suspended. And he was like, what Goes to.

[C]

Put it his key card right now. He's like, oh, I can't work out in Buffalo.

[B]

I guess it's like a Jets video.

[C]

The Jets.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

But corner is, you know, I look at. By the way, one other quick thing I wanted to mention to you guys when I was looking at the Bills contracts getting these players reupped, and maybe this is for another podcast, but I just don't know what you think. There's two other guys that should be in the mix here. Potentially something with Taryn Johnson's contract would come up. When you look at his deal, this would be the time if they are. And you would think they would still want Taryn going forward.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But you look at it, if they wanted to get out for some reason from Taron Johnson, they could do it after this next season. That's the way his contract is written. So I was looking at that. And Conor McGregor. McGregor. I always want to say that. Conor McGregor. Conor McDermott.

[B]

No, Conor McGovern.

[A]

Conor McGovern. Oh, this is the Open. Oh, I've had too many sports guys in my head.

[C]

That was so good. That was so pure. Like, guys, I got it.

[A]

I got it. It's McDermott.

[C]

Guys, I know I messed up the.

[A]

Wait a minute. There was a Connor McDermott.

[B]

There was a Connor McDermott that played.

[A]

There was two Connor McDermotts, both in the AFC East.

[C]

One played for the jets and one.

[A]

Play for the bills. Connor McGovern. Oh, with a year left.

[B]

Osiris. Osiris or Torrens.

[A]

I know that's my Osiris. Or Cyrus or Torrence. I should think of McGovern.

[B]

So pure.

[C]

That was great.

[A]

Anyhow, maybe that's why he's not signed, because they were looking at the wrong name.

[C]

They're like, we keep texting Connor McDermott and he doesn't answer.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think he's playing anymore.

[C]

McGregor has also ghosted us.

[A]

Well, yeah, he's. He's still fighting, isn't he? Connor McGovern.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You would think that that is.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At what point are you doing that? Yeah, I mean, Bean talked about that today. Continuity of the contracts and what he needs to do to set it up going forward.

[C]

I.

[A]

You know, I don't know. I don't know if they let him go into, you know, go into his final year, and then he's a key guy on the defense or an offense. Obviously, you made the decision to move on for Mitch because you felt like he could move into that spot.

[C]

So, yeah, it was funny. There is obviously always a lot of salary talk. And again, you're paying Josh and all this money. And I went back and I looked at it. People had tweeted about the sour caps. Real. Look at all these Bills moves. And it was getting rid of Poyer. It was releasing Trey White. It was releasing Mitch Morris. It was all these things. And I was like, I don't even know if these guys are in the league anymore. Like, I don't know. I think Saran Neal's in Miami.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it was like a bunch of these decisions where I went again, as we've said, they were football decisions that had salary cap benefits to it. They weren't cut because of salary cap constraints. But it was just one of those things where I went back and looked. And when they signed Connor McGovern, played a year at guard, they moved him to center. Remember last year, training camp, we're like, hey, another, like, three bad snaps from Connor McGovern. That kind of Went by the wayside. He was great. And so.

[A]

So were we judging him at training camp.

[C]

We were.

[A]

It's like four games into the Brave season.

[B]

Yeah, I guess.

[A]

And it's McGovern, by the way. Dan, what did I say? No, you said McGovern.

[C]

That'd be even better.

[A]

Okay, Connors. All right.

[B]

Credit to me.

[C]

Let's go first.

[A]

I've been adult. I've been waiting today. I've been the patient one.

[C]

All right, then you go first, Michael.

[A]

Oh, I didn't mean it for.

[C]

That was such a.

[B]

A martyr move.

[A]

Credit to me is. I know what I'm unsure about. I'm unsure when to shake hands, when to hug friend's wife.

[B]

It's tough.

[A]

Good friend of yours, hug the wife.

[B]

Okay, sorry, I don't mean I interrupted you on the record as a woman in sports, sometimes it's hard because it's like handshake. Normally, obviously, when you're meeting someone and then like down the line when you've built a rapport with them, but it's like a professional setting. But a hug, a handshake just feels so weird.

[A]

Not professional setting. I. I'm talking, like, personal setting. But the person is not like a. Say the guy's a good friend of yours and you know his wife or somewhere like that.

[C]

It's a hug.

[B]

I don't know if it's a hug.

[A]

You know that hug, that's like a tight. That's small with a little pat.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's.

[C]

It's. Yeah, it's. It's like. You're not even really hugging. No, it's just over.

[B]

And we need to make up. Like, adapt for a woman, because.

[A]

So then, you know, with guys, sometimes, you know, it's. You're gonna fist bump or you're gonna shake hands. Sometimes they come out. I heard the guy talking about. Well, you know something? You go to shake hands and the other person goes like this.

[C]

How often are you throwing fist bumps at people, Cat?

[A]

All the time. What? There's. You don't have friends that you do that, lzo? Yeah, probably. We're not shaking hands. Hey, how you doing, buddy?

[B]

Hey, Dan.

[A]

Like, if somebody. If somebody made a putt on the green, are you high fiving them? Is this 2001?

[B]

Would you dab them?

[C]

But we're talking about, like, a setting of, like, you're at a party, you're over.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[C]

I was just like, hey, thanks for having me over.

[A]

I was referencing another great dinner. Oh, my God. I was referencing another setting where People don't know.

[C]

And for the beer, for. Appreciate it.

[A]

Okay, so again, your friend's wife.

[C]

Hug, always.

[A]

What if you realize about halfway through, you commit. You commit.

[C]

She's getting hugged. It's just a hug.

[B]

That sounds so.

[A]

So as you. As the woman here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you wait, do you. What do you do?

[B]

Well, it depend. So if I don't, like, it's tough.

[A]

Because sometimes you're gonna hug everybody at your wedding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your wedding is obviously. Yeah, but, like, even the waiters, waitresses, everybody.

[B]

Yeah, but, like, usually I'll. I'll be the one to be like. It's a handshake.

[A]

Oh, you start out.

[B]

Well, first of all, as a. I've worked it mostly with men my entire career, so it's always like, handshake.

[A]

Is that what you do?

[B]

Touch me?

[A]

It's the chop.

[B]

But that being said, this is when it's. It's not great in a professional setting if you see someone and you dap them up. I feel like a handshake is way too formal. So that's why I'll go. I'll be like. I'll be like, oh, give me a. Like, not give me a hug.

[C]

Jenna's that guy in the plane. Shake my head.

[B]

No, I just. I set the tone to take away some of the awkwardness, because I can tell looking at men's eyes, they're like, do I hug? Do I shake? Do I. What do I do? So I try to, like, set the tone.

[A]

Then if you hug, are you now always the hug?

[B]

Yeah. You got to commit to that.

[A]

No, I'm saying this. So now we've established it's a hug every time.

[B]

But that's like. Yeah, but you can hug. And, like, there's weird hugs.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But, like, I'm saying, if it's your good friend's wife, you are going to see that woman.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Like, a lot. A lot. So, yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But there are times when you're like, power through.

[B]

That's why you. Well, let them lead. That's why I set the tone. Let them lead.

[A]

They usually don't lead.

[C]

Women I know could clip that, make.

[B]

You look really bad. Okay. All right, I'll go.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Say you can do your thing after.

[C]

That's how it goes.

[B]

So my credit to me. My credit is to waffles, actually. Oh, do you know what? A waffle is not the food that you eat. So credit to me. There's called things called Waffle Wednesday where you send, like, a voice message or a video to your friends. And a group chat that, like, maybe you don't. Don't get to see a lot. So all the. My girlfriends that I used to work with down in Elmira, we decided to do a Waffle Wednesday, which is a thing where you send a video or you send a message saying, like, hey, this is what's going on in my life right now.

[C]

And.

[B]

And we started it and we were like, oh, we'll see how long we keep it together. And we've been doing this now for almost a year. And it's like a great way to stay in touch with the people you love that you might not see dayto day, but you want to know what's going on in their life. Then when you do get to see them, you're able to be like, oh, how was this? What was this like? Like, you're actually able to have a conversation because you know what's going on in the person's life as opposed to, like, how's work?

[A]

How many people in this group?

[B]

There's five of us.

[A]

And one of them is not as good at doing it all the time.

[B]

No, honestly, no. Like, one time, one person, if they like, hey, I'm sorry, I had a busy day. And like, these people have children. Like, it's not just. And it doesn't. I mean, these. It's like a minute max, but it's really nice.

[C]

I just never would happen.

[A]

Never.

[B]

Well, I think there's women that watch Buffalo Plus.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

They will like this idea. But it's called a Waffle Wednesday. We do it every Wednesday. And you just send a little video and it's fantast. It's a way to keep up with people in your life that you don't get to see day to day, but you want to know what's going on in their life.

[C]

That's the difference with guys.

[B]

And I'm sure, like, you men are the worst, though. You'll go golfing 18 holes and be like, oh, what happened?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

No idea.

[B]

Are they still with their purse, their person?

[A]

I don't know, but he's got a new driver.

[C]

But it's the fact too, of, like, I won't talk to somebody for a year, and then if I see them, it's like, we never. We never, like, didn't talk for a year. Just like, oh, hey, hey. You go, yeah.

[B]

No, I. I mean that. That also happens.

[C]

Right? But you're. Yeah, I'm saying is that you're putting in the work before that to, like, set the groundwork It's.

[A]

There's no established and formal and no, it's.

[B]

It's so nice. I genuinely look forward to it every Wednesday. And it's like a nice, like.

[A]

So do you, like, are you recording.

[B]

Something so I can send, like, a voice note or. I'll all. Or I'll send a video or.

[A]

God, if me and my. If we. We did. It would be just brutal. The things that would be very Catalana.

[C]

Would also film it, like, right here.

[A]

By the way, I'm not the one who films like that.

[C]

Bovet.

[A]

Yes. Friend of the pod.

[C]

Shout out is so close to the.

[A]

By the way, I have that same text read with Conor McDermott, Conor McGregor and Conor McGovern. I have it with all three of them.

[B]

Yeah. You could send a waffle.

[C]

Yeah. My credit to me is. And it's tough because I'm trying not to do it to be that person, but I love cold plunges. Like, I am like, shout out to the cold tub. That is. And I know there's, like, people that, like, have to post a video of them doing it. And I'm proud of myself for not being that guy. But here I am on the channel.

[A]

Being saying, will you be that guy eventually?

[C]

No.

[B]

Did you see that guy's morning routine? Oh, so funny.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, though, Saratoga water. That's where I'm from. The blue water bottles.

[A]

Oh, that massive guy.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Apparently he got evicted from that really nice apartment.

[B]

No way.

[C]

Yeah, apparently. Oh, and all of us. Yeah. Anyway. But yeah.

[A]

So cold plunges.

[C]

Yeah. I love cold plunges.

[B]

How long do you stay in a cold plunge for?

[C]

I can go up to 10 minutes. What?

[B]

I don't want to be that guy, but.

[C]

Well, no, it's. The reason I brought it up today is at friend of the Nick Mancuso.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Gym in. In Rochester here.

[A]

Steelers fan.

[C]

Steelers fan. But does support Buffalo.

[B]

Plus, we love Nick.

[C]

He's got a great gym elevate. And they have sauna and the cold plunge right there. So that was part of the reason. The big selling point of going to the gym. I brought Renee today. And I was like, hey, because I want to do this on the cold plunge. And she's like, oh. I was like, well, you got to do it, because we're talking about possibly getting one at the house. So Renee's like, I'll do it. And she's like, how long should you stand for? And I was like, try, like, 90 seconds the first time. Like, that's all you're gonna try. And I was like, because they're in different locker rooms. So it's men's and women's one. And I was like, also, like, so I couldn't be in there to like, hey. Kind of like make Nick, like, walked me through the first one. Like, you gotta breathe. Like, you go. You know, it's 45 degree water, like, things of that. And so Renee was like, I lasted 40 seconds. And she's like, but it does feel incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, yeah, that's actually pretty good. I feel like.

[C]

And once you're in it and anybody that's done the cold plunges and things like that, like, after two minutes, it.

[B]

You're numb.

[C]

You're numb and you don't feel anything anyway. So it's like, Whether it's the two minutes or 10 minutes, it's all the same. But big cold plunge guy. Big fan.

[B]

Zach. Zach likes those too.

[C]

Big fan.

[B]

Would you do one every day?

[C]

If I had one at the house, yeah.

[B]

What about a cold shower?

[C]

I'm like, the point is, is like getting in and like, you're there, like you're sitting down in the tub, like, that's it. The shower. I'd be like, I'm out. It's cold.

[B]

I mean, yeah, cold showers suck.

[C]

Suck.

[B]

Have you ever done a cold plunge?

[A]

No, I. I know people that do.

[C]

They post about it.

[A]

Yeah. And Jenna. No one loves showers more than Jenna. I love showers, but they're not going to be cold.

[B]

No, they're. They're boiling hot. I made Zach change the water heater when we moved in.

[A]

Crank that thing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

That water tank that was there had no chance.

[B]

None. Non. None whatsoever. Okay. Anything else, gentlemen? Connor.

[C]

So again, comment in your thoughts about the tush push.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

James Cook. Waffling.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Handshakes or hugs?

[B]

Hug. Hugs. Hudge. Hugs. Sorry. Also reminder, check us out on our audio only side. Buffalo plus, look up our podcast. Be sure to download, subscribe there. You can also leave us a comment there a rating. So be sure to do that as well. We really appreciate it. I think last time I checked, we had pretty good readings, so we always appreciate that. And we're closing in on 40,000, which is awesome bananas. So please be sure to share with your friends that you think would also enjoy. Please be sure to like, comment, subscribe and share like I talked about. Thank you so much for joining us here. For Mike Catalana and Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cotrell. Thank you so much for watching Buffalo plus presented by Connors and Ferris. It.