The BILLS 'Ride The Wave' to BEAT Bucs: The 'JOSH ALLEN Experience' was BACK & Keon Coleman BENCHED

Summary

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Buffalo Plus Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: "The BILLS 'Ride The Wave' to BEAT Bucs: The 'JOSH ALLEN Experience' was BACK & Keon Coleman BENCHED"

Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fates

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Overview

In this episode, the Buffalo Plus team breaks down the Buffalo Bills’ rollercoaster 44-32 win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The conversation centers on a resurgent, unpredictable Josh Allen, the drama surrounding Keon Coleman's benching, the defense's struggles—particularly against the run—and the emergence of new playmakers. The hosts analyze key moments, discuss implications for the rest of the season, and provide candid commentary on the franchise's character and future outlook.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Josh Allen Experience—Back in Full

• Allen's Impact:
  The game is immediately compared to the wild, high-scoring contests of the 2019 season, with Allen "all over the place", making both questionable and spectacular plays ([00:46], Mike Catalana).
• Six Touchdowns:
  Allen notches three passing and three rushing touchdowns, displaying the full spectrum of his abilities and volatility.

  “If Dan, you just clip those plays together, you'd be like, oh, my God, Josh. And then you realize he had six touchdowns because it was all over the map with him.”
  —Mike Catalana [09:02]

• Turnovers & Rhythm:
  Despite ugly moments early—including a disastrous chest-pass interception—Allen regains form, leading to an explosive second half. The hosts note his emotional intensity returning for the first time since Week 1 ([10:51], Dan Fates).

2. Keon Coleman Benched—Accountability Crisis

• Missing Meetings:
  Keon Coleman is a healthy scratch due to being late to a team meeting—his second such infraction this season ([02:27]-[04:20], multiple speakers).
• Coleman's Response:
  In a tense interview, Coleman accepts responsibility but seems uncertain about whether he’s learned from his mistakes.

  “Mistakes happen, things happen. But again, got to be better.”
  —Keon Coleman [03:51]

• Team and Coach Trust:
  The hosts are frustrated by his lack of growth, noting Allen distributed the ball freely in Coleman’s absence, and McDermott was non-committal about Coleman's future role ([06:13], Mike Catalana).
• Sean McDermott’s Philosophy:

  “Everything is earned. Keon Coleman's play on the field has never really earned him the amount that he has gotten.”
  —Dan Fates [07:44]

3. New Playmakers Step Up

• Tyrell Shavers’ Big Day:
  Practice squad elevation Tyrell Shavers catches a 40+ yard touchdown; Allen praises his journey and work ethic ([10:17], Mike Catalana).

  “The ball finds who works hard.”
  —Sean McDermott (via Jenna Cottrell) [06:40]

• Gabe Davis Returns:
  After a long absence, Gabe Davis makes key contested catches and quickly regains Allen’s trust ([14:24]-[15:47]).
• James Cook and RB Depth:
  While the ground game stalls early, James Cook and Ty Johnson make critical fourth-quarter gains to seal the win ([22:06], [22:42], [23:26]).

4. Defensive Struggles & Resilience

• Run Defense Woes:
  The Bills’ inability to stop the run is a recurring theme; Sean Tucker, a backup, scores four times for Tampa ([02:06], [16:07], [19:07]).
• Bright Spots:
  Cole Bishop emerges as a reliable playmaker, and Jordan Poyer is everywhere on the field—though often forced to clean up mistakes eight yards downfield ([16:49], [17:01]).
• Third Down Troubles:
  The Buccaneers convert an alarming 8 of 12 third downs ([18:16], Dan Fates).
• Turnover at the Right Time:
  Bishop's forced turnover proves “massive” for momentum ([18:51], [19:01]).

5. Special Teams: Highs and Lows

• Explosive Returns:
  Buffalo’s return game, dormant all season, flashes with long returns from Ray Davis and Mecole Hardman—but a Hardman fumble nearly turns the tide ([20:16], [20:24]).
• Controversial Penalties:
  A blocked field goal is called back on a dubious penalty, drawing the ire of coaches and commentators ([20:26]-[20:40]).

6. The Big Picture: Identity, Resilience, and Outlook

• Uncertainty:
  All three hosts express uncertainty—“I still don't know what to make of this team.” ([00:05], Dan Fates)

• Toughness in Adversity:
  McDermott and the group agree that, while not pretty, the win revealed mental resilience ([19:45], [27:20]).

• Record-Setting Performances & Milestones:

  • Allen’s unique statistical feats as a QB ([24:01], [24:08])
  • McDermott’s 100th career coaching win ([24:15])

• Looking Ahead:
  Short week before facing Houston, a crucial AFC matchup with playoff implications ([24:30], [27:20]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This was a trip back to 2019, Mike. This was the Josh Allen experience again.” — Dan Fates [07:44]
• “It was a chest pass. It was to the [Bucs].” — Jenna Cottrell, on Allen’s first interception [08:46]
• “The ball finds who works hard.” — Sean McDermott (via Jenna Cottrell) [06:40]
• “Sometimes fans chanting, fire Joe Brady ... you win by 12 points and you score 44. Yeah, like I'm. But I don't know how I'm supposed to feel...” — Dan Fates [01:09]
• “Mistakes happen, things happen. But again, got to be better.” — Keon Coleman [03:51]
• “NFL is not for long. Your time in this league or with this team could be not for long because you've made mistakes off the field.” — Mike Catalana [07:16]
• “Sorry, Keon. This train is rolling along.” — Mike Catalana [09:44]
• [on the game’s chaos] “This game was drunk.” — Dan Fates [21:36]
• “This organization, at least in the regular season, deserves the benefit of the doubt of figuring it out. Especially after an embarrassing loss.” — Jenna Cottrell [26:16]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:46] – Recap of Allen’s explosive but erratic performance
• [02:27] – [04:55] – Keon Coleman responds to benching questions
• [06:40] – McDermott's quote on "the ball finds who works hard"
• [07:44] – Hosts discuss trust, Allen-Coleman relationship, and team accountability
• [09:44] – Tyrell Shavers’ breakout moment and Allen’s response
• [10:17] – First 40+ yard Allen TD since 2022
• [14:24]–[15:47] – Gabe Davis’ return and renewed chemistry with Allen
• [16:07] – Detailed breakdown of run defense issues
• [17:22] – Terrel Bernard’s bounce back, injury, and defensive leadership
• [18:32]–[18:51] – Third-down problems and forced turnover
• [20:16]–[21:09] – Special teams highs and lows
• [23:26] – Praise for Joe Brady’s playcalling
• [24:15] – Allen and McDermott set records
• [26:16]–[27:33] – Hosts discuss resilience, adversity, and the confusing identity of this Bills team

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Tone & Language

The podcast is fast-paced, candid, and irreverent—with playful banter amid deep football analysis. The hosts question the team’s identity, celebrate standout efforts, and don’t shy from calling out underperformance or expressing uncertainty.

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Conclusion

The Buffalo Bills’ 44-32 victory over Tampa was a microcosm of their 2025 season: thrilling, messy, and ultimately a test of resilience and adaptability. While Josh Allen delivered a vintage performance and new contributors emerged, ongoing issues with discipline (Coleman) and run defense loom large ahead of a pivotal AFC clash with Houston. The team’s ceiling is as high as ever, but their floor remains a threat—leaving even veteran beat writers and diehard fans wondering: just how good are the 2025 Buffalo Bills?

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Transcript

[Mike Catalana]

We called it and I was so happy to see 2019 Josh show up.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I still don't know what to make of this team. This is the Buffalo Plus Podcast.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Welcome back to the Buffalo Plus Podcast. Mike Catalan at Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. The Bills Getting the win today, 44:32 over the Tampa Bay Bucks. We're going to talk about Josh Allen. We're going to talk about Keon Coleman. We're going to talk about the defense. We're going to break it all down. But before we do that, Michael, the Bills are now seven and three coming off a big win over this Bucks team. Ugly to start. Bills figured out Josh Allen had a hell of a day.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. This is going back to the Detroit and the Rams games, where it was. They couldn't stop anybody and Josh was making plays. He did some wacky things in this game, including the way he started. There were moments I was like, what is he doing? And then, of course, by the time it's over, three passing touchdowns, three rushing touchdowns, they score 44 points. He's Josh Allen.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, that's what. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this game. I don't know really how to feel about this game and how this team is. Comment in because even during the game, I'm hearing fans chanting, fire Joe Brady. I'm hearing fans just crying out for Brian Dable. I'm hearing, this is bad, all these things. And you win by 12 points and you score 44. Yeah, like I'm. But I don't know how I'm supposed to feel because early on in this game, I'm going, they're broken. Nothing is going to come good from this. And then by the end of it, I'm encouraged. I think they turned back the clock. I think they found rhythm at the end.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But early on, I'm going, this is maybe a wild card team, but when you play like that, put up 44 points, you should win every single game you score. 40 plus points. They were able to get it done. I just. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel.

[Jenna Cottrell]

How am I supposed?

[Dan Fates]

What do you mean? Yeah, it is a little bit of that. Where it was good, there was a lot of bad. The defense was atrocious. We joked before the game like, oh, Bucky Irving wasn't going to play in this game. And I joked to some of the people and I said, I think I might be able to rush for 100 yards against it. And It's Sean Tucker, I know, goes for four touchdowns, and then they make.

[Mike Catalana]

Stops at the end.

[Dan Fates]

And Cole Bishop looks great.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't know what to think of it. It's totally fair. That's the big picture. I think to start with this game, we have to start with the personnel. And that was really the story of the day going into this afternoon's game, was the fact that Keon Coleman was benched. There was an Adam Schefter report that he had missed a team meeting. Sean McDermott said after the game that he was late to a team meeting that went into their decision to. To benching Keon Coleman. Nicole Hardman or Nicole Hardman was activated, as well as Gabe Davis. So Keon Coleman benched.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. There's no excuse for this. This has happened multiple times now. It happened last year. It's happened twice this year. He has not learned when the game was over. I'm standing outside the locker room. He walked out. He did talk to reporters. Here's a little bit about what Keon had to say about being benched for this game and going forward. Your thoughts on not being today?

[Keon Coleman]

It's got to be better, man.

[Dan Fates]

Was there something that happened that led to this?

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, pretty sure everybody already knew that. So I'm going to leave that where it's at, but just got to be better and focused on next week.

[Dan Fates]

Second time this year, Kean. Is there a lesson that needs to be learned that you're not learning at this point? Is that what it is, what you.

[Mike Catalana]

Mean, the second time that something like.

[Dan Fates]

This has happened to you this year?

[Mike Catalana]

Is there.

[Dan Fates]

Is there a message not being received? Give me a better way to answer it.

[Keon Coleman]

No, I wouldn't say that.

[Mike Catalana]

So why does this keep. Why is this the second time again?

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, mistakes happen, things happen. But again, got to be better.

[Dan Fates]

Would you describe your conversations with Sean McDermott?

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, exactly how you would imagine. Disappointing. I got to be better.

[Dan Fates]

How do you get better?

[Keon Coleman]

Doing what I'm supposed to do, the right things, being what I'm supposed to be.

[Mike Catalana]

When did you find out you weren't going to be active today?

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, I knew that. You can't keep doing. You can't make those type of mistakes. You know, you're professional.

[Mike Catalana]

So, Kean, there were two different reports out there. One that you were late to the.

[Dan Fates]

Beginning and one that you missed the meeting.

[Mike Catalana]

Can you give any clarification on this?

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, late, missing, same difference. You. Not where you supposed to be. But I was late.

[Dan Fates]

Did they give you Any indication about.

[Mike Catalana]

Thursday night and how, you know you're possibly playing four days from now? Nah.

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, we just finished the game. We'll focus on next week.

[Mike Catalana]

When we get to.

[Dan Fates]

How difficult is it to stand and watch your teammates go off and play?

[Keon Coleman]

I mean, I wouldn't say it's difficult. It's disappointing. But, I mean, when you understand what, you know, what result, like what happened to make that happen, then you get it. So you just got to be proud of your teammates and root for them.

[Dan Fates]

How do you approach moving forward?

[Keon Coleman]

You said Wyman, how do you approach moving forward? Same thing, you know, just get prepared for the next game.

[Mike Catalana]

You got to build trust with Josh. Do you think you. Do you feel like you let him down by not being able to. Of, you know, not being out there with him today?

[Keon Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, I know that's probably disappointing, of course, but you'll have to, you know, ask him for that, you know, for that for sure answer. You know what I'm saying?

[Mike Catalana]

So Thad Brown was the one who asked him about you learning a lesson, and his answer was no. How do you not learn a lesson? And I know his teammates are saying, you know, we believe in him. I talked to Deon. You know, I talked to him and put it past him at all. I say that after the first time you get benched, this is embarrassing for him. It should be. And he should have stood up and said it won't happen again. And I did not hear that from him.

[Dan Fates]

Especially we've heard all off season. I keep going back to what Deion Dawkins said before the season, that this was night and day difference. They can depend on him, all of these things. We're in week 11 and the offense is struggling, and you're not there. Now, Keon didn't dispose, you know, didn't disclose, specify between whether he was late.

[Mike Catalana]

He said late.

[Dan Fates]

Or or missed.

[Mike Catalana]

He said late.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Dermot said late.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Adam Schefter's report said missed.

[Mike Catalana]

It does. Either way. It doesn't matter if you're late outside of 10 seconds short when you've already been in trouble for this, you have missed the meeting.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You're on thin ice either way.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, to the point where Sean's got to do this. It was a series before, and then this time, it's the entire game. And I got to tell you, I said before, I don't think Sean or Josh Allen trusts him as a wide receiver. And he goes out and puts up 44, gets the ball to Shavers, gets Gabe involved. I don't think they missed him one iota in this game.

[Dan Fates]

There was a very funny tweet that somebody said the Bills offense had a Keon Coleman problem.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I mean, that's fair. I was grabbing my phone because Sean McDermott said post game talking about another player, Tyrell Shavers, who I'm sure we'll talk about. But he said, quote, the ball finds who works hard. And when he said that, I was like, that is. But it wasn't, it wasn't intentionally like that. But it just goes to show you that the Kean benching thing is embarrassing. Will he learn from it? I don't know. And that's really concerning when you have a second year player who was a second round draft pick, who you see has been talked about of, you know, the Bills need him for this offense, but he has continually been below the bar of what they needed.

[Mike Catalana]

And how many times do we say NFL is not for long. Your time in this league or with this team could be not for long because you've made mistakes off the field. And when I'm talking about that like meeting room kind of stuff and not showing up and then the team goes out there and puts up 44 without you, they're coming right back to play on Thursday. You know, Sean wasn't committing to anything. He's like, we got to see. But come on, they're coming back in three days to play another game. I wouldn't have him on the field. I would see what ends up happening.

[Dan Fates]

And we've talked about this before on the channel, like this has been what is Keon Coleman? How is he going to respond? Will he mature? All of these things We've also stressed like everything that Sean McDermott holds as the principles of his coaching staff is it has to be earned. Everything is earned. Keon Coleman's play on the field has never really earned him. The amount that he has gotten. It has feel like it has been handed to him because of the lack of wide receiver depth and all of these kind of things and then he hasn't earned anything. If anything lost it off the field like that is what is so frustrating and so hard to wrap my head around is why this guy has gotten so many seemingly passes, no pun intended, both literally and figuratively in this offense with this game. Because you're right, Mike, they did not skip a beat. And this was as you move forward, this was a clear. I mean this was a trip back to 2019, Mike. This was the Josh Allen experience again.

[Mike Catalana]

He was all over the place. Josh I mean, that first interception was so bad.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It was a chest pass. It was to the box.

[Mike Catalana]

It was like a 1958 basketball chest pass. You know, put your thumbs together and throw it. He threw it right to him. The second interception was on a fourth down.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, but he missed.

[Mike Catalana]

Guys, like, open.

[Dan Fates]

Here was open.

[Mike Catalana]

If Dan, you just clip those plays together, you'd be like, oh, my God, Josh. And then you realize he had six touchdowns because it was all over the map with him. But obviously the majority of it was good. That's why, honestly, for the purposes of this, I'd much rather talk about what Tyrell Shavers did, what Gabe Davis did. Yeah, Josh Palmer made a couple of plays. I will say Curtis Samuel made a catch. He made it the most difficult catch on an easy ball that you're going to see. But he made a catch. So other guys did step up. Ty Johnson, James Cook in the passing game, all those things were good. Sorry, Keon. This train is rolling along. That's the way I look at it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I do want to highlight Tyrell Shavers, the nice touchdown catch. That felt like 2019, Josh. And that also felt like Josh of. Like there's that Josh Allen that we have known. Josh getting away from. From pressure. Thank you. I couldn't remember the word. Getting away from pressure, rolling out, then finding Tyrell Shavers. Shavers bringing it in. It was really cool. And Josh Allen was asked after the game just about Tyrell Shavers. He said, it's inspiring. A guy who's worked his way from the practice squad to the active roster, now making legitimate plays in the NFL. And that's really cool.

[Mike Catalana]

First this. Elena Getzenberg from ESPN tweeted out the first Josh Allen 40 yard touchdown pass in the air, distance 40 or longer since the end of the 22 season.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Crazy, wild, crazy.

[Dan Fates]

But that felt like you said there were moments that it was like you turned back the clock. That time was a flat circle, that Gabe Davis is out there and Josh Allen is.

[Mike Catalana]

Time was a flat circle.

[Dan Fates]

Isn't that the exact.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Mike Catalana]

Very good. I'm saying that was nice.

[Dan Fates]

You know, he's running down the field and throwing, lateraling the ball. Apparently it was, you know, the illegal forward pass.

[Mike Catalana]

It was cool, though. It was very cool.

[Dan Fates]

It was very cool. But like, that's where you saw it. And to highlight to me more than anything was Josh Allen's emotion after the last touchdown. That was the first time I've seen him so fired up, so much emotion since week one. And that was Just the wild. You know, when he went up to Elam after and was like, welcome to Buffalo, like, that was the Josh we've all called.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Prater. Yeah, Prater. Yeah. It's okay. We're having trouble.

[Dan Fates]

Elam was the other old Denver Broncos kicker.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I was thinking of Kai year. Yeah, sorry.

[Mike Catalana]

Freighter time circle.

[Dan Fates]

I was making a point.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, no, you were cooking.

[Mike Catalana]

That was good.

[Dan Fates]

I just burned everything.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, I'm glad to see Josh have some emotion because sometimes as someone who, you know, watching the game, and I know a lot of fans have talked about this on the sidelines, it seems like he's kind of keeping everything internal, like having like the. The sad look or like the kind of dejected look. But to see some emotion, because you saw Baker out here, the dude we talk about, a gamer, a dog, plays with that edge. And you saw that today. But it was nice to see Josh match that and show some of that.

[Dan Fates]

Because there are a lot of things that I can't see on the field, Jen, and I just see it through the lens. And even on some of the touchdowns, it was like, touchdown, high five.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

That touchdown at the end, even the one to Shavers a little bit, had a little bit of that. That felt right. Like, that was really cool. It was good to see that where towards the end, because even when they had scored the 24 points or whatever at halftime, it still felt like, man, they.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, we. We were joking. We were like, they've had 33 rushing yards. They only. The Bucks had 20 minutes of possession. The Bills had. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

After the long Hardman kickoff return, it took them four minutes and 10 plays to go 36 yards.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, good catch. It's quite windy out here. If you can't tell that.

[Dan Fates]

That was crazy to me that it went. It was so hard for the Bills to go 36 yards and score a touchdown to go 36 yards.

[Jenna Cottrell]

They almost threw a pick and they fumbled.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

And they got three first downs. Like, you're averaging less than four yards of play. You're like, hey, great touchdown drive. And I. And I was sitting there on the sidelines going, don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining and be like, this offense has figured it out. What a drive. It's like, yeah, I guess if you get 60 yard kickoff returns, this offense can work. But by the end of it, I felt like, man, Josh got in a rhythm. Josh started running the QB powers that we talked about in the drive up here, like they went to some of their old reliable. The James Cook Swing pass, touchdown. They went to the well of like, hey, this stuff has worked before and let's do it again.

[Mike Catalana]

And the Bucks are terrible at covering wide receiver or running back. Side of the backfield. Dan, how was it down here? I mean, I was windy. How was it down here?

[Dan Fates]

Not as bad. Like, it was windier pregame I thought, like, even watching some of the throws, the ball tailing all over the place, but I didn't think. I thought it died down. It's obviously picked back up as we're recording this podcast.

[Mike Catalana]

In the press box, Jenna had a blanket and hand warmers.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Don't tell him that.

[Dan Fates]

That's upsetting. That's.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm soft.

[Dan Fates]

Like, I'm not Pittsburgh in two weeks.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I know, I know. I'm scared you're going to get A Christmas Story.

[Dan Fates]

Can't move my arms.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm sure Val Codrel will have a nice scarf and mittens and gloves for me.

[Mike Catalana]

I will say this for the offense, it was fun. A lot of people got involved in it. And, you know, to get Gabe back out there, look, for a guy who hasn't.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, keep talking.

[Mike Catalana]

Played Gabe made a few plays. He looked pretty good. One in the end zone. I thought he was going to catch and he didn't hold on to it. But they went to him with a quick slant and he held on to the football. That mean the guy hasn't played?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

So to contribute like that, and obviously Shavers, like you said, Ty Johnson and everybody else, I thought it was really.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I want to focus on Gabe for a second because I know we've joked on this podcast about whatever, but I thought today you saw some of the throws that Josh threw to Gabe. One in particular was like, he trusts that guy.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It was a tight window. It was a great catch by Gabe for the first down. And I was like, he would. There's players on this roster, Keon. He would not even attempt that, too. But he has that trust now. Did Gabe have a dropped touchdown later on?

[Dan Fates]

Josh was at 100. And Josh even said he threw that a little bit hard.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay, that's fair.

[Mike Catalana]

But people kept saying that the guy got his hand in there on that. Regardless. It wasn't a touchdown either way.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That, to me, was a step forward of, like, this is someone that Josh trusts, and we've seen him make plays before, and I think you saw the boost that he could add. And I thought he had a nice day. I wasn't expecting him to light the world on fire, but what he did was enough. You'd like to think that he's able to build off of that. We shall see. It's been a long time since she's played in a game, but encouraging nonetheless.

[Mike Catalana]

It'll also be interesting to see how he responds having not played a game. And they're back in three days.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

That's four days to go play again.

[Dan Fates]

And Jenna, to your point, I completely agree. That fourth down play, he came in and Gabe even said, like, I had a feeling he was. He was coming to me.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And to hit that slant, though, that's a lot of faith, a lot of trust. But that was Josh in rhythm and confident in his guy. Yeah, like three step drop, boom, it's right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And that was a very tight window.

[Mike Catalana]

It's the kind of plays they need to have for Josh Allen. He needs that play. He's going to make a lot of crazy ones. That's nice and simple. Make the play, make the catch, move on with the first down.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, it's very true. I had other stuff. Do we want to.

[Mike Catalana]

Let's go to the defense.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The run defense is a. Is a problem.

[Mike Catalana]

Awful.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And it's been won for a long time.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, it got a little better in the second half, but that is like saying. No, I'm not going to say it, but the run defense got a little bit better. Lincoln, the play, the play, it was a little better. They made a couple of plays. Cole Bishop's a dude now. He has moved to dude by.

[Dan Fates]

I love Sean McDermott's answer about that, that you want these guys to come right out of the box and figure it out. But he said he's playing with confidence and that's what we have stressed. Like, I think Jordan Poyer deserves a lot of credit for that. And we kind of scoffed at. I know I personally scoffed at. At Poyer coming back. Also. Jordan Poyer was all over the field today.

[Mike Catalana]

Unfortunately, he had to be making tackles eight yards down the field because they weren't being made at the line of scrimmage.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Especially run game. Even on special teams, he was making plays.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, Poyer was great. I mean, still just throws his body around with reckless abandon. That guy can still lay a hit trail. Bernard looked better. He looked better. 11 tackles today. I think it was a season high for him. Started there was a little bit of a moment where you're like, he's flying around, going back to the huddle. You could even see kind of like that look of like, that's me.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I asked him about just a little bit afterward about how he's feeling and you know, he's not. He is. That guy's not a whiner.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Mike Catalana]

He goes out and plays. You know, that ankle has been a really impact and he's trying and he wants to be out there. And I know a lot of you get frustrated, but because you're watching and he's not making the plays that he had made in the past, but that he is playing hurt. And we'll see if he's able to go on Thursday because that is a quick turnaround for a guy who's, you know, constantly getting that ankle checked because it is just. It is giving him a hard time. But I think you're right, Dan.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He.

[Mike Catalana]

He showed some flashes running sideline to sideline. Hopefully it'll get better.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What do you make of the third down defense? Because it feels like they do a great job on first and second down. And then third down, it's automatic.

[Dan Fates]

First down feels like the offense, the opposing offense is like we got them right where we want.

[Mike Catalana]

Third and 14, third and four.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's crazy.

[Dan Fates]

I don't know how. How mental it is at this point. It just feels like they're not able to get off the field. It's just been big play, big chunk play after one another. Bucks were 8 for 12. I think at one point on third down, it's tough.

[Mike Catalana]

I want to look at the numbers. I don't know how it felt to you. I didn't think Max got as many snaps at all.

[Dan Fates]

I was hoping that you guys could answer that because we were saying that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I was like, trey is still in. Trey is still in. Then I'd be like, oh, Max is out there. But it felt like Trey definitely got the majority of snaps there.

[Dan Fates]

The past defense in general, I thought was decent. Decent once again.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

But it's just that run defense was bad, like I said, was better. They got the turnover they needed with the Bishop play, which was obviously massive. Yeah, so. So that helped. But obviously they have to be better because Bucky Irving didn't play.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I got to give your.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Sean Tucker.

[Mike Catalana]

Tucker, the Syracuse guy was outstanding. He's got speed. He's a. He's a pretty good player.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It does feel like if we're being critical. Joey Bosa, it feels like it's really a struggle for him to set the edge.

[Dan Fates]

He's struggling. He's. He was laboring again. I don't know if it was his shoulder or his wrist again today. He wasn't wearing the club. The Q tip.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

As they were calling it, but he still seemed like he was struggling with that. And that's where, again, trying to wrap my head around the big picture of this game. They had three awful turnovers. They got crushed in the time of possession. They, they just shot themselves in the foot once after another and they still won.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like I. Well, Sean McDermott talked after the game, and I think this goes to your point of like not knowing what to make of this team, but Sean said this win took toughness.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And I agree, because they had to outlast some bad, bad plays.

[Dan Fates]

The hard team fumble was such a backbreaker.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. That was defensive.

[Dan Fates]

You got to stop on third down.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I, I talked to Mike. I was like, that sucks for the defense. You think you're going off the field and then we gotta stop. Not only you're going back on, but you're 30 yards further down the line.

[Mike Catalana]

I don't know what got into the return guys today.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I was going to say Ray Davis.

[Dan Fates]

I thought this was their best and possibly worst special teams game.

[Mike Catalana]

Now. I thought it was a really, really good special team game.

[Dan Fates]

Play on the blocked field goal.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. But I don't think that was a penalty.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't that.

[Mike Catalana]

I think that was a terrible call.

[Dan Fates]

J.J. watt called it as soon as it happened.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Really?

[Mike Catalana]

Really?

[Dan Fates]

He called it as soon as they, they saw the flag. He goes 70 held.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Wow.

[Dan Fates]

To allow, to allow the guy to come.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, I know Chris Tabor was lighting up the official going off the field. I don't know, you know, as a special teams coach, but they ran back multiple kick returns. I mean, this team has done virtually nothing in the return game, so. And then Hardman left with a calf. I think it happened on that play.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, he was pretty much being carried off the field at the end of the game because I thought he got benched for a second just because of how bad the fumble was. Because honestly, the ball was in the air and I'm like, fair catch it, fair catch it. And the guy was right there.

[Mike Catalana]

It was a bad, it was a.

[Dan Fates]

Bad decision to return that. I know you're. That's why I kept thinking this team is pressing to try and make something happen because for the first time in a long time they had good field position offensively.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And then you're sitting there and then it's like the Curtis Samuel one over there. Like the ball lands and it's like, now you're backed up again. And the Bills go on a awesome 4 minute drive, 85 yards and to seal the game, like it Was a. It was such a weird game. It was drunk.

[Mike Catalana]

This game was drunk. It was definitely, and I will say this, as bad as the defense was for a majority of the game, to get that stop on the first series after Josh's bad interception was big, huge, because that was, you know, you kept it back at your own, you know, five yard line and he throws that pick. But other than that, it was not good.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I know we talked about it, but Ray Davis had a nice game and I do think for him it's probably been really hard this season. Very limited touches on the field, but for him to make an impact in the return game was, I think it was impressive.

[Mike Catalana]

This was the first game where the depth in the backfield all showed up. Ray made plays in special teams. Ty made to play in the pass game. James Cook maybe didn't get the rushing yardage, but made plays in the pass game. He's becoming more of a guy in the pass game. They're looking for him. They missed him a couple of times. But it's good to see James get the ball back again.

[Dan Fates]

We've talked about how it felt like the good old days to see them struggle to run the ball so much the first three quarters and then they had the ground game to put it away. Yeah, that was really cool to see.

[Mike Catalana]

For.

[Dan Fates]

For James Cook to be bottled up and contained so much for three quarters, then to have the patience to get six yards, eight yards, and to keep the Bills ahead, you know, on schedule was so crucial. When again I'm filming him on the sidelines like there was the one series when Josh turned it over on fourth down. It was four passes, three incompletions in the interception and you're going, so now we're just going to abandon your best player that's carried the team most of the season. Unbelievable job by him. And I thought that was a good game by Joe Brady. Like to get back to some of the basics and we talked about it. He was my Picasso's player, you know, to watch this week because there was so much pressure ramped up on him. Josh obviously, as always, makes things so much so easy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But to weather and sometimes hard and.

[Dan Fates]

To weather the storm a little bit, you know, Josh with the rough start. Josh said today was a lot of fun outside the first quarter, after the first quarter, which I thought was very accurate.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, by the way, your comments sometimes on Twitter, some of the things people say right after that about Josh, by the way, I, I want you all to know he's still married, by the way. When he had six touchdowns. I mean, I get those second comments.

[Keon Coleman]

He's.

[Mike Catalana]

He's. Ever since he got married, I'm like, there's too many commercials. The same guy has six touchdowns. He has played like this before.

[Dan Fates]

He's the second game by a quarterback to throw for 300, throw three touchdowns and rush for three touchdowns. The other one was Josh Allen.

[Mike Catalana]

Josh Allen, Yes. He's a unicorn.

[Dan Fates]

First quarterback ever, which is the Josh Allen graphic. First quarterback ever.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Another record from this game. Sean McDermott hitting his 100th career win.

[Mike Catalana]

For a guy who has no idea what he's doing, pretty impressive. He won 100 games.

[Dan Fates]

For a guy that has been fired by the fans.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I thought that was a nice little note.

[Mike Catalana]

No, I'm. I'm. Obviously, that's a great accomplishment for him to have 100. And it's quick. Now, Houston has some issues offensively. We don't know if C.J. stroud, he was in concussion protocol. They survived today against Tennessee, but their defense is good, and it's a quick turnaround. And that is a very, very big game for this team. It's a conference game, and you can put yourself back to what you would be. What if you win that game, you would be eight and three.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Patriots at nine and two.

[Dan Fates]

So, yeah, it felt like this was kind of a. Almost like you stole one, giving up 32 points. The off, you know, and to know you had three turnovers, kind of feels like you're.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, yeah. You found.

[Dan Fates]

You found some change in the cushions of the couch.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, this was a very impactful game for the Buffalo plus stand.

[Mike Catalana]

So it is.

[Dan Fates]

Well, so here.

[Mike Catalana]

Second, like third.

[Dan Fates]

Subscribe.

[Mike Catalana]

By the way, last thing for me is that I had two games in a row with a prediction on a defensive play. And I was so excited at the end when I saw the ball pop loose on a strip sack of Baker. Thought it was my boy Greg.

[Dan Fates]

No, it wasn't.

[Mike Catalana]

It was not. No. But they did get a strip sack.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I will say, I thought you were like, I don't know what this team is, and I don't know if this team can bounce back. I hear you. But I do think that this organization.

[Mike Catalana]

Like our Baltimore game. You gonna take it as a win?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No. No.

[Dan Fates]

You can't have scored late. If they would, the Bucks would have covered the five and a half.

[Mike Catalana]

Because if I take the Baltimore game as a win, then Jenna and I are tied.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I. No, it's not. It's not a fact. But I will say I did think that you were Being a little bit too critical. Because I think this organization, at least in the regular season, deserves the benefit of the doubt of figuring it out. Especially after an embarrassing loss.

[Mike Catalana]

This was just wild, right? Like this. Normally this would have been.

[Jenna Cottrell]

They would have shot him.

[Dan Fates]

Like, this wasn't a. They bounced back. They figured out the run.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I completely agree.

[Dan Fates]

But they showed onto your butts.

[Mike Catalana]

You know what it is?

[Jenna Cottrell]

They showed toughness.

[Mike Catalana]

They did. In a different kind of toughness.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Toughness.

[Mike Catalana]

Not like. But here's the other thing. Imagine, like thinking this was going to be like a low scoring game, like betting the under.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Crazy work. That was actually really mean. That was mean. That was. That was.

[Mike Catalana]

Did they almost go over by themselves?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yep. Did they go. I think they did go over by themselves.

[Dan Fates]

47 and a half.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I didn't realize that.

[Dan Fates]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, that was.

[Mike Catalana]

No, you are right. No way. I thought they were scoring.

[Dan Fates]

The defense didn't play nasty.

[Mike Catalana]

No, they didn't.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But I do think that there was a toughness in this game that's not like. Like they were able to withstand. They showed that they could figure it out as they went. Was it always pretty? No. Even in some of the pretty moments, you're like, oh, this feels pretty lucky. But whatever. This team got back on track and that's what they needed. But we'll see on Houston, it's a.

[Mike Catalana]

Different kind of hindsight win. Take the. Take the fact that Josh got going and get ready. Just put it behind you. Get ready.

[Dan Fates]

I think there was.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You look at the weather for Houston, 84.

[Dan Fates]

I'm gonna say, like, there was nine minutes to go. The Bills are up five and they were kicking off. And I'm going. There's so much game left.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Like, it felt like a slow game.

[Dan Fates]

So you know what I'm saying? Like, that's where you're trying to look at it in small. Like going through with a fine tooth comb while also looking at the big picture now.

[Mike Catalana]

I just thought it was gonna be.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He's just too reactionary. You're hysterical.

[Dan Fates]

Women.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Sorry. Some man told me to smile today. And, yeah, I.

[Dan Fates]

Did you lose it?

[Jenna Cottrell]

I didn't say anything, but I was like, I will burn this to the.

[Dan Fates]

Normal sized feet, not high.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Although right now I look very lit, so there's that. Okay. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Please be sure to, like, comment and subscribe.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The Bills win. They're 7 and 3. They have Houston on Thursday. We'll plenty of pregame coverage as we roll into this week down in Texas for Mike Catalana and Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Thank you so much again, like, comment, subscribe, share. We already did, but that's okay. Hysterical. Catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus podcast.

[Dan Fates]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast.