The BILLS 'Top 10' STORYLINES of the Summer

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast – Detailed Episode Summary

Episode: The BILLS 'Top 10' STORYLINES of the Summer
Date: May 30, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

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Overview

This episode of the Buffalo Plus Podcast focuses on the Top Ten Storylines of the Buffalo Bills' 2025 offseason and upcoming summer. With mandatory minicamp and training camp approaching, the panel dives deep into positional battles, expectations for key players, and unresolved roster questions. The conversation flows with insider knowledge, lively debate, and the trademark humor the Buffalo Plus crew brings.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The “Josh and Josh” Connection: Expectations for Josh Palmer

[00:32 - 04:56]

• Low, Realistic Expectations: Mike advises fans to temper their excitement:

  “I want to keep my expectations low now… It’s just the idea of a new player coming in and how it’s going to impact this offense.” (Mike, 01:08)

• Comparisons to Previous Receivers: Past successes like Stefon Diggs, Cole Beasley, and John Brown are noted—but those were unique situations.
• Palmer’s Opportunity: With a glaring hole at outside receiver, Palmer inherits a big chance to shine.
• Chemistry Building: The challenge for Palmer is quickly developing rapport with Josh Allen, whose improvisational play style rewards adaptable receivers.
• Upside Potential:

  “There is an opportunity there and there’s a huge one. So will he take advantage of that?” (Jenna, 03:14)

• Could He Lead Receiving?

  “There’s no question. I think he could.” (Mike, 03:56)

• Josh Allen’s arm talent and on-the-fly playmaking demand unique chemistry from his targets.

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2. Wide Receiver Mix: Elijah Moore’s Role & Depth Chart Puzzle

[07:24 - 11:14]

• Elijah Moore: Slot or Outside? Dan isn’t sure where Moore fits, noting the overlap with Curtis Samuel and questioning whether Moore is truly an outside receiver.
• Strong OTA Showings (but wait for pads): Moore’s “evident speed” is praised, but panelists want to see him in real action.
• Depth and Meritocracy: The WR room is crowded, but Joe Brady (OC) prefers players to earn their snaps.
• Trust With Josh Allen:

  “When he does, if he’s making plays, they’re going to have him out there.” (Mike, 11:35)

• The return of ~83% of the roster means continuity, but also intensifies competition for roles.

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3. Dalton Kincaid: “Comeback” or Make-or-Break?

[11:56 - 17:41]

• Meritocracy at Tight End: Dalton Kincaid enters a pivotal third year, where production is expected—not just potential.
• Thoughts on his usage:

  “If he was a sure-handed, big-time playmaker, you would give him the ball…” (Jenna, 11:56)

• Physical Concerns: Multiple references to knee injuries and physique. Mike references Jay Skurski’s Q&A with Kincaid for more context.
• Coaching Debates: Dan strongly pushes back against blaming OC Joe Brady for Kincaid’s uneven usage:

  “I don’t buy that Joe Brady has done–and it has–he’s been the one embracing this ‘everybody eats.’ He wishes he had a guy that could be an all-you-can-eat buffet…” (Dan, 14:14)

• Year three is “sink or swim”: If Kincaid doesn’t break out now, the Bills may reassess his long-term value.

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4. Keon Coleman: “Most Improved?”

[21:01 - 26:45]

• Physical Development: Noted that Keon looks “bigger” and more aggressive, addressing offseason coaching points.
• Position Fit: Debate on whether Keon is best suited as an outside receiver or “power slot.” Dan references Reception Perception’s analysis:

  “In a perfect world, the Bills are going to line up… and it’s going to be Palmer, Kincaid on the outside, Shakir in the middle…” (Dan, 22:30)

• Underlying Concerns: Despite positive reports, past issues (separation, route-running) linger—true test comes in pads.

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5. James Cook: Contract Standoff & RB Value Debate

[27:11 - 39:59]

• Contract Uncertainty: Cook is holding out for a new deal, but the Bills (historically under GM Brandon Beane) are reluctant to pay running backs big money.
• Team Impact:

  “Right now… Running back position is a weakness on this team. Not a strength.” (Mike, 41:12)

• Heated Debate: Jenna passionately argues for paying Cook due to his unique playmaking for Allen—Dan and Mike counter with analytics and positional value arguments.
• Notable Quotes:

  “If you take away James Cook from this offense, though, that scares me. I don’t think there’s another guy that can be… that impactful.” (Jenna, 37:24)
  “They seem like they’re leasing the car instead of buying it.” (Mike, 36:07)

• Likely Outcome: All agree Cook will play this season but may be gone in 2026.

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6. Safety Depth & Cole Bishop

[42:47 - 45:59]

• Thin Safety Group: The Bills have not added significant new faces, so Cole Bishop needs to take a big step forward this summer.
• Expectations: If Bishop isn’t firmly safety #2, it’s a red flag for his development.
• Special Teams Options: Derek Forrest and Damar Hamlin are discussed as depth, but neither are viewed as long-term solutions.
• “Time on Task” Theme:

  “That is Sean’s big thing. It is time on task, especially for [that] position.” (Dan, 45:33)

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7. Cornerback Depth Battle

[47:44 - 51:32]

• Young Talent and Experience: Panel is excited about the mix of rookies, especially Max Hairston, and proven players like Tre’Davious White and Dane Jackson.
• Possible Outcomes: The position battle could be the most competitive in years. Taron Johnson is the unquestioned slot presence.
• Who’s CB#3 by midseason? Panel expects the rookie group to push veterans, but acknowledges development is not guaranteed.

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8. Joey Bosa Injury: D-Line Overhaul and Concerns

[51:32 - 56:05]

• Bosa’s Soft Tissue Injury: Raises early concerns, as these can linger. Panel hopes for caution, but notes team expects Bosa ramped for Week 1.
• D-Line Revamp: Addition of veterans and rookies like TJ Sanders and Landon Jackson signal a full overhaul.
• Greg Rousseau as Anchor: Team paid him to be “the cornerstone,” but McDermott wants to see increased physicality.

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9. Hard Knocks: Distraction or Opportunity?

[56:38 - 58:13]

• “Non-Issue for This Team”: All confident the Bills are mature enough for the spotlight, with coach Sean McDermott now well-suited for cameras.
• Potential Distraction: Only unresolved James Cook contract could create drama if it carries into camp.
• Fan Excitement: General enthusiasm for the national exposure and inside look at the franchise.

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10. Odds and Ends: Final Storylines and Memorable Offseason Moments

• Notable Instinct on Ray Davis and Ty Johnson: Without Cook, the RB group loses its “strength.”
• Rookie Impact: Room for instant contributors among rookies in DL and CB rooms.
• Memorable moment: Jenna’s fiery defense of paying James Cook sparked playful but passionate debate:

  “Now you know what it’s like for me to be on the outside… That’s Jenna right now. No, but you don’t get it. It’s James Cook!” (Dan, 43:12)

• Off-field Laughter: Hosts joke about fitness classes, yard work, and handling sick kids, grounding the show in authentic camaraderie.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jenna on why to pay Cook:

  “If you take away James Cook from this offense, though, that scares me… You’ve had pedestrian running backs and the offense has struggled…” (37:24)

• Dan on positional value:

  “They all hope everybody’s here… But I think there does have to be a weird scenario where you’re preparing to have a season without James.” (29:57)

• Mike on roster construction:

  “They seem like they’re leasing the car instead of buying it.” (36:07)

• Dan on Keon’s fit:

  “If you could have Shakir in one slot and Keon on the other, that’s a powerful offense.” (22:30)

• Mike’s excitement:

  “I think I’m more excited about the corner position than any other group.” (48:35)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Josh Palmer fit and expectations: 00:32 – 04:56
• Elijah Moore’s role and WR depth: 07:24 – 11:14
• Dalton Kincaid’s year 3 pressure: 11:56 – 17:41
• Keon Coleman’s offseason work: 21:01 – 26:45
• James Cook’s contract drama: 27:11 – 39:59
• Cole Bishop and safety depth: 42:47 – 45:59
• Cornerback battle excitements: 47:44 – 51:32
• Joey Bosa & D-line rebuild: 51:32 – 56:05
• Hard Knocks effect on team: 56:38 – 58:13

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Conclusion

This episode delivered thorough, thoughtful, and occasionally fiery analysis of the Buffalo Bills’ critical summer storylines. Fans will walk away with a clear sense of the biggest opportunities and question marks facing the 2025 roster—and a sampling of the lively personalities covering the beat.

Quick Takeaways:

• New WR corps, chemistry is key
• Kincaid and Keon at career crossroads
• James Cook is both essential and potentially expendable
• Secondary and pass rush have both excitement and open questions
• Bills are ready for Hard Knocks, and fans should be too

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Transcript

[Dan Fates]

You fear a lot of these overlap now. Again, if More can play more on the outside.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Sorry. More can play more. Sorry, child. That's fair.

[Dan Fates]

That's great.

[Mike Catalana]

And I'm sure he probably is going to have to. And they do do some things, too. There's the open.

[Dan Fates]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought to you by Connors and Ferri.

[Jenna Cottrell]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We're getting into our 10 biggest storylines of this off season. Going to talk a little bit about the offense, a little bit about the defense, a little bit about the opportunities ahead for this team as they get ready for mandatory minicamp, training camp. Then of course, the start of the season, which feels right around the corner, honestly. But let's start first and foremost with Josh Allen and Josh Palmer. Josh and Josh. And where you kind of set your expectations.

[Mike Catalana]

I want to keep my expectations low now. And this is nothing about Josh Palmer.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

It's just the idea of a new player coming in and how it's going to impact this offense. Now, there's a lot of news about Stefan Diggs in the world right now, but. But when Diggs came in as a player, he was pretty well established and he was really great from the get go. So was Cole Beasley, John Brown. Like, all those guys played well. It's not always that easy. I think it made it look easy. Josh was a little younger. It was different. Those guys were. We forget. Like, Beasley was sort of a forgotten guy a little bit in Dallas. Like, they liked him, they didn't love him. Comes to Buffalo. And I thought he played really well. And Diggs is good. You know, when Curtis Samuel came in last year, I had high expectations, as we know, and it just, for whatever reason, didn't work. And then he had the injuries and you. You think, oh, I wish this was better. So I'm not sitting there saying, great. I do like his skill set. Yeah, we saw him at. Look, it's minicamp, ota. Some people go way over the top in what they see there, but he does look like a player with a skill set who can play on the outside. That should help this offense.

[Dan Fates]

Think you've said it before, Mike, where you've gone back and forth about how much does Josh elevate individual players? Because he elevates the team with himself and everything that he does. So I think that's important to know. And like I said, I always kind of look at it too, of, okay, you're assigning somebody, that team, let that person also go for a reason. It doesn't mean that you can't find something, unlock something, find him in a better scheme and a better fit, all of those things. But I'm with you where it's the off season flowchart of you guys, your team signs the player you love it, the player you like signs with a different team. It's like, that's too much money. I wouldn't do that. So, like, it is. But I have said before, I think he has such a high upside because it's a position, it's a role in the Bill's offense that has a glaring hole that he immediately comes into fit.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I, I think from what we saw very briefly on the field for OTAs, like, you see what he could add the possibility of, okay, if his, if he hits his ceiling, like, what that could look like. But for me, for, for Josh Palmer, it's like there is an opportunity there and there's a huge one. So will he take advantage of that? And how quickly can he build a rapport with Josh? Because we have seen guys, in some instances, you mentioned Curtis Samuel, someone who has kind of struggled early on to have that, that chemistry with Josh Allen. But that being said, I think what Josh Palmer can add, I liked the bill signing him and my expectation, like, do you think he could lead the Bills in receiving yards?

[Mike Catalana]

There's no question. I think he could. I think Shakir is going to get a lot more attention this year.

[Dan Fates]

I always love that when we play the could game, it's like, hey, like, yeah, when they play the players that are like in the Masters fields, like, could you win? It's like, legally, he's allowed to. Josh Palmer is legally allowed to possibly lead the team. He could.

[Mike Catalana]

He does take on a bit of Mac Hollins's role, right. Playing on the outside, getting down the field. Could he? Yes. Because I do think he has shown that he's had over a hundred targets in the season before, put up like 800 yards. Quite honestly, if you look at his numbers, I think it was 20, 22. His numbers were almost identical, and I'm going to use that word loosely to what Khalil Shakir did last year. And we all love that because Shakir was really good. So he has already shown he can put up those numbers in a lesser offense with a lesser quarterback. As much as some people just love Justin Herbert, he ain't Josh Allen. So. Yes. But I Do like. I do like. I see the reasons why they went to get him. I do like his skill set and I think it can happen.

[Dan Fates]

Jenna talks about chemistry. It's also a little bit about learning how to play with Josh because he is not typical in the sense of he's not a great anticipatory thrower. Like, and it's not just run your routes and they talk about it's got to be 12 steps and break here. Like, that was Brady. Like, I'm going to throw to a ball to a spot. You better be there. Josh is much more at times, much more at times sounds like a dumb sentence, but the fact of reading and reacting and it's a little bit off script is when Josh is that real Josh Allen experience. So it's how will they connect and the trust. Because early on in the season, I know a lot of people, myself included, were done with Matt Collins. It was like, couldn't make a couple plays, had a drop in the first game and it's like, this guy stinks.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And then I literally forgot that. But yeah, right early on where you're like, oof, yikes. And now it's like, oh.

[Dan Fates]

And then he's making big plays in the AFC championship game. So it is part of the learning curve. It's learning how to play with Josh. It's learning how to fit into a new system. And like I said, that's a big part also of Joe Brady. There is a lot of continuity coming back on this team. I think that gets lost with all the signings, but there's like 83%. They're the third highest team that has returning players coming back on the roster. So, like, can you get up to speed and work in with what's already around?

[Jenna Cottrell]

I feel like Josh is intuitive in terms of that. Like, I feel like he very much reads. The defense is anticipatory, but it is a little bit different where it's not like, hey, this is like you said, take 12 steps in and then come right. Like, he has a feel for it. So you have to. You do. You have to get adjusted to that. And players have talked about also just how hard he throws the ball. Like, I know that sounds silly, but like things like that, that there is a ramping up process and it plays.

[Mike Catalana]

Into it because his arm talent is absurd.

[Dan Fates]

That's why he doesn't have to be a great read. And like, he doesn't have to be before the defense. He can see what the defense does and then just has a hand cannon that can put the ball where they're not.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. And he will make those throws and he will make them. And also I believe maybe I'm using the term right. I think I'm gaslighting here a little bit. But Josh only throws his bad passes to Dalton Kincaid.

[Dan Fates]

That is true.

[Mike Catalana]

Is that what I was doing there? Did I use the term correctly?

[Dan Fates]

Josh needs to be better for Dalton and they both need to be better for each other this year for the sake of the Bills offense.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's too early for that. All right, Dan, Buy more stock. Elijah adds more question mark.

[Dan Fates]

Good pun.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Thank you.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, there are a lot of these. We worked on these quite hard.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Look, I'm very TV of us.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I'm trying. Much like Josh Palmer when Elijah Moore signed, I was not overly excited and my concern lies with you're paying. I think his role could be very similar to Curtis Samuel. Now, I've also heard Bove was talking on his podcast always Game Day. Like, could he be a John Brown? Could he play a little bit more outside? Because you think of his size is more of a slot. But he has played on the outside. He did with Cleveland, things like that. I'm struggling to find out where he is going to fit in this offense and maybe that's where I just have a little bit of hesitation because the Bills pretty much run 11 personnel. That's in large part because of Dalton Kincaid. And I get. We will get to that in a little bit. But if you're rolling out three wide receivers, you're thinking it's Palmer on the outside, Keyon on the outside, and Shakir. So where. And I liked the way. I liked what Curtis Samuel. I'm buying Curtis Samuel stock at what he did at the end of the year because I really think his injuries were. Were a problem. So where does Elijah Moore fit in? I guess that's where I am just a little bit now. I heard again he was looked great in OTAs. That's awesome. It's really encouraging. I do want to see more once we get to padded practices at Fisher, things like that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

His speed though was evident. Like, I know you're right, like not padded, all that stuff. But I was like, oh, he definitely stood out in that way where you're like, who's. Oh, he's. He's fast. There he is. You see? You see that? And that's something that this Bill's offense has been lacking.

[Mike Catalana]

He's put up decent numbers and he's gotten a lot of targets with some shitty quarterbacks. Right. I mean, so it's not necessarily. That means. This is the point I was making with Josh Allen when I say he doesn't necessarily elevate the stats of players, he just elevates the whole damn team because he'll figure out how to get it to whoever. But I think he can be a guy like that can be impactful. It just may not be in a total numbers role. It may be more in the type of place which is what we've been waiting for. Right. Is there a guy and I guess a little bit. Matt Collins was that guy last year. Not as many total catches and total yards, but he made some big plays and got down the field and that's Matt Collins. What I would say this about Elijah Moore. I mean they have money invested in him. It's not an absurd amount. It's a one year deal.

[Dan Fates]

Right.

[Mike Catalana]

Let's see what he can do. So cautiously optimistic that he can have a role with this team.

[Dan Fates]

Where do you see? I. I think GR was talking about it like what Elijah Moore is the Bill's blank wide receiver. Which number.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Number.

[Dan Fates]

Like that's where I have a hard time like fitting seeing and again I'm also not trying to sound like more wide receivers that are good is a good problem for Joe Brady in this Bill's offense and Josh Allen to have. It's just kind of like what we went last year where it's like how do all of the utensils fit in the silverware drawer? Because you fear a lot of these overlap now again, if more can play more on the outside.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Sorry. More can play more. Sorry child. That's fair.

[Dan Fates]

That's great.

[Mike Catalana]

And I'm sure he probably is going to have to. And they do do some things to do. There's the open where there's a bunch of formations where you're not really sure who's the slot, who's on the outside. I mean they can do that. I do see a group with those five that I don't see a special teams player in there. I don't really see a returner. You have guys who can play in that role, but that's not their prime.

[Dan Fates]

I'm not overly concerned about a Bill's wide receiver needing to play teams.

[Mike Catalana]

No. But my point is if you're going to play, you're going to be active as a fifth wide out. What role is there for you? Is it 10 snaps, 12 snaps, 20 snaps? It's also meritocracy. Go earn the snaps.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

When he does, if he's making plays, they're going to have him out there.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And he'll try to build a trust. That's what we always talk about with Josh. You go make a few plays for him. That's what I say this again because it's Mac, but that's what Mac did.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

He built a trust. And by the end of the year we were like, throw it to Mac because he'll catch it. And he did at the end of the year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's why I kind of want. And this goes into our next topic which is Concade and possibly a Concade comeback. But some people were pushing back on our you ask, we answer video saying like, well, the Bills need to utilize Kincaid more in the offense. And to me, what I say back to that is if he was sure handed, big time playmaker, you would give him the ball, you would give him those opportunities, you would seek him out because that's what you do. It's a meritocracy. So if he was making these plays, you would want to keep feeding them because of that. And so to me it's like there is, there is work that needs to be done for Kincaid this season to solidify himself as now year three. I know a lot of people say tight ends, a very challenging position to adjust to in the NFL and it takes time. It's been time.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, here's the way I would look at it. First of all, you have to be fair to Dalton Kincaid. Jay Skirski did a little Q and A with him at and read it because it's, it's basically what it is. Jay asked the question, he prints his answer. So you see it. He wasn't making. He was giving reasons, not excuses for his play in his knees. Listen, that impacted him in one way or the other. So you have to say, let's see where he is physically this year. Right. But the expectation is there. I don't like the. I know it's statistics, it's numbers and the way it's judged that all of a sudden it's like he and Josh. And the issue is Josh.

[Dan Fates]

I agree.

[Mike Catalana]

He's MVP of the league, he makes plays with everyone and he wasn't making it with a guy who he is good friends with and was a number one pick. And I understand the level of patience. It's year number three. This train moves. That's why I don't want to hear about Keon being young. I don't care when Josh is dropping back to pass. He didn't give a crap if he's 22 or 28. If he's there, he's throwing him the ball. So this is the NFL. So that's when I look at Kincaid. If he's healthy this year and we can talk about the way he looks, then he's going to either make plays or he's not. And maybe Joe Brady does need to adjust a little bit, but that's. Maybe he does. I'm saying is I'm going to give him. There's little leeway into this because the Bill's better. Bills obviously want to see Kincaid be really good this year.

[Dan Fates]

That's the one thing I will push back on. If you believe that Dalton Kincaid can still be this top five tight end in the league, that's fine. We can disagree with where we think about Kincade, but leave Joe Brady out of it. Like so Joe Brady makes everybody else better but he holds back. D K to your point, like I don't buy that Joe Brady has done and it has. He's been the one of embracing this. Everybody eats. He wishes he had a guy that could be an all you can eat buffet and he could feed the ball to all the time. He hasn't had that. And if the Bills want Dalton Kincaid to be that guy, the opportunity is there. And so if you want to talk about the injuries and you want to talk about Josh's off target throws, fine. I won't push back. I will push back on the fact that Joe Brady has been so good at reinventing this offense to build up Josh Allen as an mvp. But it's Joe Brady needs to do better job for Dalton Kincaid. I don't buy it at all.

[Mike Catalana]

I guess I would just say there are some things and it's going to play itself out. And I think it's going to play itself out certainly by the middle of the season where you're going to be like, okay, was it those things or were those the reasons he wasn't going to because he is tight end one. He's in a big year, third year of a rookie contract. It's where they make big decisions on him and the expectations in that building are high for Dalton Kincaid. So you as fans, if you love Dalton and you think he's going to be great, this is a big year for you because he's going to need to show it. And I'm not saying he can't.

[Dan Fates]

He just did last year.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. But I'm saying is he did deal with knee injuries. He did have those things. So if that's what you believe, it's easy to say that even As a fan in May, you're like, well, he was hurt. Okay, let's. What are you seeing in him in September and October and November when they need him to make plays? Was it that or is it something else? Or is he just going to be a good player but not the exceptional player they thought they got in the first round?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. And I think everything is ahead of Kincaid this season. Yeah, like, I, I think the injuries did impact him. You said that in the interview with Jace Kirsky and that now you know, he has the off season to get healthy. He has another year knowing this offense, another year working with Joe Brady. He's obviously very close with Josh Allen. Like everything is in front of him. He just needs to take advantage and, and we'll see how that pans out this season. But I, I think you're right. Like this last year was a big year because, you know, he, he did have a, some, a solid like freshman first year in the NFL and obviously he did take a step back last season. So what can he do this year to kind of either way prove if he was worth it to move up and for that first round, first round pick or if it was, you know, what a swing and a miss.

[Mike Catalana]

And he did say in that interview he worked a lot with the Bills conditioning staff to come back. Now. He doesn't physically appear bigger, anything like that. It doesn't mean he's not stronger. We. He's there. They're doing walkthrough, basically drills and then non contact and all that. So you're not really seeing it when you come to camp, if fans come to camp or you see him, he looks about the same to me, so I don't know if that's any different, but the knee is the thing. He's got this long sleeve on the knee. Like, let's see where he is when it starts for real.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I. I feel like he looks skinnier now. Does that mean place?

[Dan Fates]

We're not body shaming though. We are not.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Honestly, I'm jealous. No, I'm kidding. No, I just. To me. But also they were not in pads or anything like that.

[Mike Catalana]

Safe to say he doesn't look like where you go. Like Dan made the point of the one year when, when Trey, when Trey.

[Dan Fates]

Came back from his ACL and he was at training camp and he took his shirt out, shirt off. And I went like, whoa. Like, this guy is jacked.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Like. And again, we're not expecting him to add 20 pounds of muscle and bulk up, but it's understanding, taking that Beating. And this was a guy that had a little bit of injury concerns. How would he hold up through college, through the draft process, and now we're seeing it still in year two. Very similar concerns about his physique and the way that his body can handle it.

[Mike Catalana]

And this, you know, we can move on from this. But at the end point, when you said we're not expecting it, it isn't us, it's Brandon bean and Shawn McDermott.

[Dan Fates]

We're not in the building.

[Mike Catalana]

They're the ones who are saying this is an expectation for them.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, but they did. Shawn McDermit did compliment King Cade and say that he is in this offseason. You know what? What?

[Dan Fates]

We're in it. Best shape of their lives.

[Mike Catalana]

Best shape of their lives.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He didn't say best shape of their lives.

[Dan Fates]

It's. Trust me, you're seeing the. The clips from every team. Social, ML, football, dove. They're all sitting there going like, look at how yolked this guy is. This guy. And we are. We are in it. Best shape of their life.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You are right. But that is not what McDermott said. He said he was essentially proud of what Dalton Kincade has done in the weight room in the offseason.

[Dan Fates]

We're going to get an upcoming bill coming on this. This channel in the near future. I'm going to ask him if he's in the best shape of his life.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay, that's good.

[Dan Fates]

That will be a question.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes, we have.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Are you in the best shape of your life?

[Dan Fates]

No. Nope. That ship has sailed.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Mike Catalana]

All anybody's watched the Pilates. Oh, by the way, I got Pilates shamed in my spin class today.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Really?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Oh, Karen called it out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's amazing.

[Mike Catalana]

Told everybody. And I told them the truth. I said, listen, the truth was it was heated. No, no, in my mind, it was. It was a amped, heated Pilates torture class. And I told them it was done in a black ops site so nobody could see it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That is the most quiet I've ever heard you in my entire life, because I was dying. Also, I took a bar class today, and it was so much harder than that class. And I was like, Mike and Dan would be crying in a corner.

[Dan Fates]

I was sore for three days.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, this cl. This bar class.

[Mike Catalana]

You know what? Next time we go, Keon and Kincaid are coming with us. We'll get those guys going.

[Dan Fates]

Next year, we're seeing how many times you can bench 225 guys. If I win this, if I win the picks.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. I'm gonna need A spotter, for sure.

[Mike Catalana]

That's it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like a bagel and two broomsticks. Or two bagels and one broomstick.

[Dan Fates]

That's how it would work.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Who? That's a.

[Mike Catalana]

That's a.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's. Someone said that. I don't remember. Okay. You mentioned Keon.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Keon looks bigger also.

[Dan Fates]

Approaching best shape of his life.

[Mike Catalana]

In good shape.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. They say Keon does look. I agree.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And he did aggressively go after the ball, made a couple nice plays. Again, it's OTAs, but you want to see that out of him, and he was a rookie last year, and I'm just hopeful, and we'll see that he is aware of those things, and he worked on those things. We won't know until you really see them play, but he's a very important player to them this year, and they need him to be better. They've called him out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, they called him out, and then McDermott credited him. Credit.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, credit.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Credit to Keon. Someone else. Bad podcasting. Someone said credit to them. Oh, the amex.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

I think with Keon getting bigger and, you know, being. What did Sean say? His body. He could tell. He worked on his body and worked on drills.

[Mike Catalana]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

I still think that Keon may be playing out of position. That in a perfect world, if you had to draw up an offense that Keon got placed in, I think he'd be a big power slot.

[Mike Catalana]

That's our friends at reception perception.

[Dan Fates]

You know, like I say, they've been.

[Mike Catalana]

Saying that about Keon since before he was picked, that that's the type of player he was. And he told us that at combine. Combine.

[Dan Fates]

Like, in a perfect world, the Bills are going to line up in the 11 personnel on the first snap of the season, and it's going to be Palmer, Kincaid on the outside, Shakir in the middle, Kincaid and the running back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You.

[Mike Catalana]

Did I say two Kinkades.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. Kincaid, Shakir, Coleman, and Palmer, with the cook as the running back. And I think as of right now, if we go through last season, like, that corner on the outside against Keon is feeling pretty comfortable and feeling pretty confident going up against Keon on the outside. I mean, the. The analytics show that he did not separate on the outside, and that's where if you. They almost are forced to play Kincaid, obviously, as that inline guy, and they've invested in all those things. I get it. But if you could have Shakir in one slot and Keon on the other, that's a powerful offense.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And if you went 10 personnel and went One running back and no tight end. And they don't really do that because they like to run out of those sets. But that's where I think in a perfect world, Keon bulking up could be like the puka of the Bills offense, where it's like you're a big, physical guy that can overpower slot corners, you'd be too fast for linebackers, and you'd be a real mismatch.

[Mike Catalana]

Let's be honest. Brandon Bean said from the beginning that Keon's an outside guy from day one, day one. But they had already had Kincaid in place, so this is the guy they ended up with. I think they feel like his skill set could translate. Maybe it will. Maybe he spends part of the time and he's better on the outside than he was last year, but obviously that's a huge key.

[Jenna Cottrell]

My thing was going, going this past week to OTAs was like I wanted to just see, looking at Keon, do I feel like he paid attention to what was said to him in the off season and applied himself. And I feel like that's what you can ask now, what does that mean? And what will that look like come training camp in the start of the season? We don't know yet. But he heard and understood what was being asked of him and he, at this point, up until now, has applied himself to do what is needed. So that to me is that's step one. And he heard that and took it to heart and. And that's what you need from a younger guy.

[Dan Fates]

But Keon also looked impressive at minicamp, rookie minicamp, OTAs and training camp last year. Like he. That was good. It was when you get those pads on and when you have to be able to get releases and separation amongst the. The masses, that's where he struggled. So while I'm happy that I want to see agility, I want to see those, those weapons in his tool belt that he can get releases, get open quickly, be explosive at the line of scrimmage to develop there. That's what they need to. He was physically imposing last year. I saw the guy being like, he looks like a grown man. Like he's got all of that. It's, can you do the other wide receiver things? Can you break down quickly and get in and out of your routes? Are your cuts more crisp? We saw in the Miami game back in Week two, like, it wasn't good. Steve Smith was the one calling him out like, this is easy for cornerbacks to cover. It's that more explosiveness, the footwork that I think we need to see Keon because again, when you're in college, he's physically more imposing than other. Other guys. In college, you can just physically be better now. Everybody's good. And Sean talked about that like it's a step up. So to your point, I agree. And. And if Keon worked on those, that footwork stuff and worked on those drills, it could be a big season for Keon because if he can win on the outside, that changes so much of this Bill's offense.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I, I totally hear you. I just feel like at this point in the year, I'm like, did he address what was asked of him in, in the. Not in pads, all that stuff? Yes. That's step one. Check that off. Let's get to June and July. And then I will say this back.

[Mike Catalana]

Keon, I do think he wants to be really good. I think he feels like he's going to get there. But you can, you can want it. It's. It's on this field, like they just don't wait. Then certainly defenses, they, they see things. And maybe to your point, right, you started. Maybe he's playing out of position, but for right now, he's going to have to adjust.

[Jenna Cottrell]

My thing is, you can want to be good, but are you going to work to be good? And I think we saw a very raw prospect in Keon.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Which is what you expected.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, which is. It's what we expected. But how can he now fine tune his skill set and then improve upon it? Because that's what the Bills need him to do.

[Dan Fates]

It's Kincaid. It was. We were sitting there going, this year's a big year for Kincaid. Last year was a big year. Keon, silly. Raw product. Yeah, he was raw last year. How much more of a finished product are you? Yep, it's a little. It's a little bit of deja vu.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I don't know about being. Trying to ask men to change. I. I don't. I don't know if I recommend.

[Mike Catalana]

Not everybody is like Dan and I. I will just tell you that. Oh, you guys have changed immensely.

[Dan Fates]

So much.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay, the next topic. Cook in the kitchen. Old James cook talk.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's one of the big storylines of this off season.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, right now there's no cook in the kitchen. And I guess I would look at it and say what happens to this team? Whether it's a, you know, either at camp and not participating or, you know, as you get closer to the season. Right now, I agree with people and they say what he's Missing isn't really impacting him or the team.

[Dan Fates]

He is not on a boat as far as we know, like a former Bill.

[Mike Catalana]

But there are two ways to look at that. In one way somebody's like, hey, all these other guys are getting an opportunity. The other way to look at it is the team's also going, here's these other guys. And it might make James Cook look better. Which is I think what he's kind of hoping for. Right where they're like, we miss. We're missing this of what Jimbo gives us when he's out there.

[Dan Fates]

And they love Jimbo.

[Mike Catalana]

They do love James. I just think in terms of this team has had a lot of time to prepare for the idea of it. At some point Cook is playing. You're not sitting out the year. I don't even see. We've seen guys try to do that press where they go late into the season. It's been a while since anybody's done that because you have to be by week 10 to count for the year. I do not see that happening at all with him.

[Dan Fates]

The guy for the jets did it.

[Mike Catalana]

Who was it?

[Dan Fates]

It was from the Eagles, right?

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, yeah. Yes. And then he showed up and he was bad and now I think he's not showing up at OTAS again.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Because he wanted a better contract.

[Mike Catalana]

Wants a better contract in this case. I just am wondering what it looks like if he's not. For whatever these reasons, if he's not on the field, you know, they would need to do something. They would go out and get a veteran to add with these guys. As much as we all like Ray Davis and we think Ty Johnson's a good player, there's no question they would want another running back because those guys roles are not. I mean, first of all, you know you're not going to play 80% of the snaps if you're Ray Davis all of a sudden. Yeah, I don't. You look at me, you're going to disagree with me. Wow.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Really?

[Dan Fates]

I don't know.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Really. Can we a little inside your head. What are you thinking?

[Mike Catalana]

God, that's a scary thing.

[Dan Fates]

That's a terrifying place to be. I don't know. I. I think they have to prepare a little bit that it's tie and there could be a waiver pickup at the end of camp when. Yeah, yeah. For a third back and you. You're rolling with. They're. They're running back 2A and 2B like we thought. I don't know. This hasn't got to this Point. I don't think this has been that ugly.

[Mike Catalana]

I'm with you.

[Dan Fates]

Of a dialogue. You, you've heard teammates, you've heard bean, you've heard McDermott all say the right things for I don't care about what his posts are on social media and liking that running backs are getting paid. That's fine. That whatever. And again, thought Dion said it best. Like we all respect each other getting their money. Like we understand that when it comes down to it, we all hope everybody's here. It'll all get worked out. But I think there does have to be a weird scenario where you're preparing to have a season without James. I, I agree. I think he will be on the team. I think this will be his last year, but I think that he will be here this year because I don't think it helps his stock or his value if he sits out a whole year.

[Mike Catalana]

By the way, I know we have a very smart watching and listening audience. Just if you know anybody, don't be that guy or that woman that says guys under contract, he's got to be there. That ain't the way the NFL works. Okay. Because he doesn't have a lot of guaranteed money in this. They could just cut him and he doesn't get any of it. That's the way it works in this league. Or gets a very small percentage of it. That's not NFL contracts. So when you hear somebody say these guys sign for three years or four years, they got to be there. This is the year for him to get a new deal. Whether he's set his sights too high. He doesn't think so. He thinks they're too low. That's what negotiations happens. But I'm curious about.

[Dan Fates]

Let's talk tariffs.

[Mike Catalana]

Do they. God, do they really want it to work for a long term deal, the Bills?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Dan Fates]

So what is. Joe Marino actually brought up a really good point. I think he was on somewhere and he, he mentioned beans never paid a running back.

[Mike Catalana]

Right.

[Dan Fates]

Like. And yes. I think he's always been looking for the guy. I do think he was in on McCaffrey.

[Mike Catalana]

I. Dan broke that story.

[Dan Fates]

He was in on McCaffrey. He was. He's been in on running.

[Mike Catalana]

Brandon confirmed it.

[Dan Fates]

Yes. So it's interesting to try and balance that between they. What. What they view the position as.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Do they view when they break up the salary cap and they say, hey, this is how much. This is how comfortably feel at paying that position and do we think James is worth 90% of that position? If. If what you're going to pay him.

[Mike Catalana]

Janet, do you think of all these guys that they've had in there, yes, he's the best one.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. You didn't even have to finish the question.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes, he has a skill set that helps.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I get it. Like, is it the sexiest thing to pay a running back? No, But I look at teams like I look at the Eagles. And when you have a star and you have an impact difference maker, why, like, to me, it's like, you found the guy, you drafted him. Why not pay him? And I hear you. It's a running back. And you know all this.

[Mike Catalana]

To your point, though, it's a playmaker, and he did make plays. It's what they see him in terms of now at the right number, maybe the Bills would say, it's fine, we'll pay him 10 million.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I just don't think that that number and what they value, it's. It's high enough. But to me, it's like, you have been taking so many swings at trying to get a talent at that position. Are they trying to get that Devin. Devin Singletary. But, like, you found him. That's the byproduct. I mean, Devin Singletary is cooking.

[Dan Fates]

Like, yes, it's a playmaker, but is it a playmaker worth $13 million? Because when you talk about, you look at the Eagles or you look at the Ravens, like, there, there's a pretty large drop off between Saquon, Barkley, Derrick Henry, wherever you. Wherever you fit. James Cook.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's fair.

[Dan Fates]

So it's tough when it's like, you know, whether it's the wide receiver. Higgins.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Like to, hey, I want to be paid like Jamar Chase. It's like, that's adorable. Like, that's great.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But I'm not saying it needs to be the same amount as what those guys make, but it seems like that's.

[Dan Fates]

Around where James wants to be.

[Mike Catalana]

And so then the question is, does it end up being where Cook's like, the Bills are offering this and he can. They can come to more of an agreement on it and then do the Bills then say, we like them enough that at that number this works for us, or do they just refresh?

[Jenna Cottrell]

My thing is, like, it's ultimately, it's James Cook's decision and how much he values himself, and if the Bills are going to say, you know, we just don't value a position, we're not going to give you this number. Or if it's close to what he wants, that is James decision. Do you want to make more Money or do you want to take a little bit less and stay in Buffalo? But if I'm Brandon Bean, it's like you finally found someone that has been a weapon. I just, I would be closer and more inclined to give him a number closer to what he wants than to be like, ah, you know what, we're all set.

[Mike Catalana]

I think you're right. It just feels impactful that Brandon sort of pulled back quickly. He was like, I. I'm not. Yeah, no, no, that's what I'm saying is because I don't think their number is close at all.

[Jenna Cottrell]

So.

[Mike Catalana]

So I don't think the Bills are going to.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I, I'm. I'm saying from my point of view.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, my point, I don't think the Bills. I think this will be James Cook's last year on the Bills. But I'm saying, like, you have tried to make so many guys work in your offense, and James Cook is a weapon other than Josh, why wouldn't you continue to pay him?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, like, the only reason you pay.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You paid other guy. Like, I don't know. I just think that what he adds, you've been. You've taken. I mean, Devin Singletary, Zach Moss, Ray Davis, obviously you drafted James Cook as well. And I get it. It's. It's the running back position. They get a lot of miles, and then how much do you value it? But my thing is just you found a guy that, that does what you want. Why wouldn't you pay him? Why wouldn't you? Again, that's me. And I'm not Brandon Bean. And I don't think Brandon Bean and I see eye to eye on what this all looks like for James Cook. But I would be more inclined to be at a number closer to what James Cook wants.

[Mike Catalana]

They seem like they're. They're leasing the car instead of buying it. They just keep going back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I completely agree, but do you see what I'm saying?

[Mike Catalana]

I. I agree and we've talked about it. James Cook made plays that nobody else except Josh Allen on the roster.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Exactly.

[Dan Fates]

And I want everybody to get paid. I want James to get his 50 million, wherever that is.

[Jenna Cottrell]

For the record, I, I like there are players. You gave Curtis Samuel a lot of money. You've given other guys a decent amount of money. And I think that James Cook, other than Josh Allen, in terms of a playmaker, has been the most impactful. Yeah, why not pay him? Other teams are paying running backs, and it's worked out for them now is James Cook, Derrick Henry, Or Saquon Barkley. No. But is the NFL gonna now start to swing a little bit if you find a guy that can make a difference?

[Mike Catalana]

It's not just. No, it's not even in the same stratosphere. It's the difference. I mean, you are talking about guys that had. Well, in Barkley's case, as many snaps as Ray and James Cook had combined, he had what, 2,000 yards. He had seven touchdowns of over 50 yards. His Eagles is showing. No, what I'm saying is when you talk about playmakers, that's why Christian McCaffrey got paid.

[Dan Fates]

Yep.

[Mike Catalana]

Because he's beyond running back.

[Dan Fates]

Correct.

[Mike Catalana]

It's like having a.

[Jenna Cottrell]

If you take away James Cook from this offense, though, that scares me. I don't think there's another guy that can be. I think Khalil Shakir is great, but other than that, I'm like, how else are you going.

[Mike Catalana]

It is funny that I said that about it. And last year when the Eagles signed Barkley, he got the same amount of money as Gabe Davis because of position value. Now he's gotten more since then. Oh, you're winning.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I was just.

[Dan Fates]

No, it was just. Would you have said so? Like I said, we. I hear your argument for James Cook in. In. In. In favor of him.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

If you are his.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And again, I. I don't think the Bills will pay him.

[Dan Fates]

Right. I'm not disagreeing with your argument.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I'm playing the other side and I'm saying this is a not for long league. And when you're banking on the investment that James Cook wants. Would you have said these same things about James Cook?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Dan Fates]

Last year?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No.

[Mike Catalana]

No. But he did show it last season.

[Dan Fates]

And like I said, if he doesn't play in the Week 18 game and get a thousand yards, I still think he was.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I. I think he was. Absolutely.

[Dan Fates]

I'm just playing Devil's Day. I'm not dismissing your claim.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I just. I. I get it. I just.

[Dan Fates]

I feel like I go off queen.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I just. I'm a little frustrated because, like, I. I know the Bills aren't feeling this way about James Cook, and I know you guys. I get it. There is a. I totally understand. There's a drop off from Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley to James Cook. I just. And Christian McCaffrey went healthy. I just feel like taking away James Cook from this offense, you take out a lot of impact.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like, I just feel like they've had pedestrian running backs and it. The offense has struggled now. Was Josh Allen the Same guy that he is now. No, but also, again, it's the handcuffing of Josh Allen that bothers me. Like, why don't you want to give him someone else to help carry the burden, shoulder the load of. Of scoring points for the Bills?

[Mike Catalana]

And this is why Bing gets paid the money. Right. It's.

[Dan Fates]

There will be comments in here that say, thank goodness you guys aren't GMS of an NFL team. Yeah, yeah. My SUNY Fredonia degree in journalism didn't really.

[Mike Catalana]

Except Brandon Bean is the one who stepped away basically from negotiating right now and signed him to a long term deal. So only commenting on that a week from now, you could see James Cook signs a four year deal with the Bills. Like we don't. Not in the building. Don't know what they think other than you say it. Don't listen to their words, see their actions. And that was their. Well, words and actions. So let's say.

[Jenna Cottrell]

All right, let's go to Cole Bishop.

[Dan Fates]

Spicy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I just. I feel like you guys are like. Yeah, but they don't feel. Yeah, I know. I am very aware. I just.

[Mike Catalana]

You're ma. That is a very good point. The difference would be they want him to play this year and then move on. I think that's what it is. And then they would plan in the off season to replace him with another guy.

[Dan Fates]

When we're pushing back on the other side. Doesn't mean that we're saying yours is wrong.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, no, I know, but I always. It's. What is it? People love picks. They don't always love the player. Like just because you're drafting. What do we always say after the draft they addressed this need. That does not mean that player is going to be good.

[Mike Catalana]

No. They might trade for Jonathan Taylor though.

[Jenna Cottrell]

They traded for Nahim Hines. How did that work out?

[Mike Catalana]

I mean, Jonathan Taylor's another notch up.

[Jenna Cottrell]

So do you think they would do that?

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Catalana]

I'm just throwing his.

[Dan Fates]

I think that Jonathan Taylor is a more complete back. Less explosive, more complete back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I just As f. As long as they have a high caliber player at that position, I'm fine with that.

[Mike Catalana]

I will finish with this couple.

[Dan Fates]

30, 40 more minutes.

[Mike Catalana]

I like Ray Davis a lot and I think he can be better.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And I like Ty Johnson. I'm with you right now. Running back position is a weakness on this team. Not a strength with James Cook. It's a strength right now because they don't have that other guy. And you. You're hoping that a guy like Ray Davis can Evolve into getting much more of a part of the offense. Then you don't have Ray Davis behind him. So they need. They would need another player. It's not going to matter. James Cook's going to play. I think he's playing the year out. And then they have to make a call.

[Dan Fates]

One more thing. I don't mean to spoil. I just want to say one more thing. Losing Stefan Diggs was more of an impact on the offense. They were able to adapt if James Cook were to be traded tomorrow, but.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It'S because James Cook stepped up. Like he was one of the players.

[Mike Catalana]

That stepped up when they needed it and they really needed it last year.

[Dan Fates]

I'm just saying, like, you're talking about the hole that they would be without with James Cook. I think losing Stefan Diggs left a bigger hole than if James Cook were to leave in this hypothetical that I don't believe is happening.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, okay.

[Dan Fates]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think in name Stefan Diggs.

[Dan Fates]

Replacing like a 1200 yard receiver.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I just think you guys don't value running back enough. I guess I. I value it more.

[Dan Fates]

Than it is, like, not really.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, yeah, then that goes into for.

[Dan Fates]

A two down running back.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay. Again, I like Johnson.

[Dan Fates]

I think he's got such a nice niche role and.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Niche. Yes. Well, you can say it both ways, but yeah. Okay. Cole Bishop.

[Mike Catalana]

God. Feel like it's a real letdown. It's nothing about Cole.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, Nice guy. Nice guy.

[Mike Catalana]

He's got to be good. They.

[Jenna Cottrell]

They drafted him.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, not only did they draft him, they didn't really do anything this year.

[Dan Fates]

Spicy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm just so. It's fine. Everything's fine.

[Mike Catalana]

Let's be clear. We can be very annoying.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I mean, I. Yeah, yeah. We can all be. You know, I know that I can be annoying too.

[Dan Fates]

I also love that, like, this is the first time in a little bit that Jenna's really passionate about something. Now you know what it's like for me to be on the outside and just getting like Jon Snow, like fighting off everybody. That's Jenna right now. It's like. No, but you don't get it. It's James Cook.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I just.

[Dan Fates]

That's what makes it a good pot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I, I get that. I just feel like.

[Mike Catalana]

Can we get back to Cole Bishop?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, it's just the hand. Like, I just. Yeah, whatever. Okay. Cole Bishop.

[Dan Fates]

How did Demar look?

[Mike Catalana]

I'll be honest, I didn't notice. Okay.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I mean, I. He looked like Demar.

[Mike Catalana]

The reason I bring it up is because they didn't add, really, to the safety position.

[Dan Fates]

That's correct.

[Mike Catalana]

So they expect Cole Bishop. I think the expectation is he knows the defense better. He wasn't healthy last year in the spring and into the train in training camp, and he got behind and he was okay when he played. They expect him to be better. They have the security in knowing that DeMar has started a ton of games, so he can start if they needed him to. But they absolutely have high expectations for Cole Bishop.

[Dan Fates]

They added Derek Forrest.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. So who has started in the league? He's played in the league, and he's. He'll probably play a lot of special teams.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. This safety unit is. Meh. It's a. It's a unit. Like, it's secondary concerns, you know, like, they're trying to figure out what the cornerback situation is. The. You hope that it's not just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Like, you hope that Cole elevates like we've talked about with Kincaid, like we've talked about with Keon, and takes that next step. Keon Kincaid.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

It's an alliteration. I think somewhere in there, guys that need to step up.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you like. Let's say we're going into the season and Cole Bishop is safety number three. What are your thoughts?

[Dan Fates]

Big concerns then, about Cole's future.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. Because they've given him, like, right now. It was certainly understood last year. It is because unless there's an injury, that means you didn't beat out Demar. And for all the people with their weird takes on demar, they absolutely want Cole Bishop to beat the starter.

[Dan Fates]

And if there is another injury in camp, that's another massive concern. Because it is time on task. That is Sean's big thing. It is time on task, especially for position.

[Mike Catalana]

Oh, sorry.

[Dan Fates]

I think I saw a bug there. Time on task.

[Mike Catalana]

Maybe he talks too much.

[Dan Fates]

Almost went down there, and I lost it.

[Mike Catalana]

Time on task.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You're talking about time on task. Cole Bishop.

[Dan Fates]

Because then it's a durability thing. If he's getting injured for a second year at camp and missing more time, like, that's tough.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. They are giving him, in my estimation, the opportunity for it to be his job. Like it. I think it's his job to lose. And what will come of that? We don't know.

[Mike Catalana]

But Sean has high expectations in general for safeties.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

He was very fortunate on his own doing with the two guys he had there. That was like, let them play. We'll. We'll take care of everything.

[Dan Fates]

Else it was. They didn't need to be. They didn't matter. Time on task. They were like towards the end it was like if you guys don't want to practice, don't want to play, you're fine. You. Your knowledge back there was is everything. So hopefully Micah coming back to kind of coach Cole at the end of the year kind of shows about that. But again, that is such a massive position communication wise for that defense. And if Trail Bernard doesn't have to be the traffic cop on every single play and can trust what's going on behind him, I think that's also a big asset for. Yeah, Trail Bernard, number eight.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It looked so weird. Yeah, it just looked weird.

[Mike Catalana]

He has to buy his old jerseys.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, you gotta buy them all. That's a buzzkill.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, it just was weird.

[Dan Fates]

Were Kyers jerseys easier to buy when he switched numbers?

[Mike Catalana]

Palmer has that. Oh, when he switched. Now Palmer has five.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. But that was available. Now that was available.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay, let's talk a little bit more about the secondary, people. Don't forget that corner spot opposite Christian Benford.

[Mike Catalana]

Can I just start with something? I'm so excited about the corner position this year. I love they drafted three players. I want to see Trey do well. I do think it is the most excited I've been about this group in a while because I like what the young players bring to it. I like the fact that we know Trey knows the position and Dane Dane, I don't know why I was.

[Dan Fates]

Dana, read your mind.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. Dane know the position. So we know those guys can play in the defense. Right. We know that. And you've got Benford on the other side. I'm very excited about the cornerstone and I like the mix of athleticism and toughness that they can bring. And you and always I say all this, I don't even mention Taron Johnson in the slot. Correct again because you just.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

You just know that he's there. So I think I'm more excited about the corner position than any other group.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Are you most excited about Hairston?

[Mike Catalana]

I think he brings something they haven't had. He brings that speed. He brings that attacking the ball a little bit. I mean he could be that player. It's a long way off. But he's going to earn that spot because like we've said, Trey's right there and he's started and been an all pro in that spot. Yeah, but he's going to earn it if he's the starter week number one. So line up against Lamar and the Ravens. Week number one. Just like. Just like they gave to a Christian Benford to line up against the super bowl champion Rams on the road. Week number one, which they did.

[Dan Fates]

Week 12. Who is the Bills corner three?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Ooh. It's a good question.

[Dan Fates]

Thank you.

[Mike Catalana]

You have one in mind?

[Dan Fates]

No, I just. I mean, I would love it to be Dorian Strong. I'd love it to be. Yeah, I think there's a good chance it could be Trey White if those guys aren't progressing the way that they need to be. And again, I'm not going to overreact about an OTA practice where guys ran past Trey White. Like, I'm just not going to overreact to any of that. We'll see more in training camp when we get closer to game time. What tread Trey still has left, but like you said, it's. If nothing else, like, he was still able to get on the field with the Rams and the Ravens. Like, there was enough there that because of whether it's between the ears and maybe not as much below the shoulders as what it used to be, I still think Trey White is a very good, as we've said, floor to have for this team.

[Mike Catalana]

By the way, I'm so impressed for you that you navigated that Trey.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm not gonna lie. You started. I was like. Also, it was just seeing Trey out there for ot, that was cool.

[Dan Fates]

Sean said that, too.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

They were at the office and he's like, it's pretty cool. Pretty cool.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He just. He feels like his old self. Like, just the jokes and the smile. Seeing him out there feels right.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, it does. Who do you think's Corner for? Like, what if Max Dareston. Very wrong.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, that would be. And it. It does happen. Even. I mean, he's a late first round pick, an exciting player, but it does happen. Where. Just not getting it right away. So you still have Ingram on the team, who they like on special teams. He's going to be active on the roster and playing. He made big plays. The Dolphins took it back to the house for a touchdown. So that was a pretty crappy pass. Ed Oliver made that play.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I was remembering that play. Knocked him. Knocked him down to it. Put it right in his hands, but he took it to the house.

[Dan Fates]

So.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I.

[Dan Fates]

The expectations are higher for now, I hear. Now I understand. Cause, like, if Ingram's your fifth or sixth corner. Pretty good room.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Pretty good room.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay. Joey Bosa. Sean McDermott said at OTAs this week that Bosa pulled his calf and that he will be out for the spring. But the hope expectation training camp. Now obviously injuries are a part of his past. It is May. But the fact that he has this cropping up now. What is your level of concern and what do you think long term?

[Mike Catalana]

Sean McDermott said it's concerning. He said that in May. He said it the other day. So it is because this is the type of thing you worry about with a player that's got some miles on him and has had these soft tissue issues before. They maybe they're being overly cautious which you can hope for. But he did say the rest of the spring. So at that point it's a couple of weeks.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

You're not running him out on the field for the even the mandatory one. He's. He's around getting him ready for camp. I still think camp it's a ramp up process for him. You want that dude on the field week number one rushing Lamar. Right. But yeah it's concerning because those are the kind of things that keep you out for a month during the season or more.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No. And those are the kind of things that can linger those soft tissue things. But you say like getting them out on the field for week one. I hear that. But for a lot of fans are saying like keep them in bubble wrap until.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah but he's got to be out there. He's got to do.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm just telling you like what people people were like it's fine that he is injured now. We don't need him now.

[Mike Catalana]

Well I agree with that part. In terms of the timeline for him to play in September. Yes. It's just the idea is like oh it's not like he twisted his ankle. That can happen. You know more or jammed his hand. You know. You know going in for a pass rush drill. It's the soft tissue stuff that I think they would. Would be concerning.

[Dan Fates]

He didn't cut a finger fishing like say where you're like this is Fluky and Von Miller will have his phone nearby.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. I think.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you think.

[Mike Catalana]

He'S.

[Dan Fates]

Could it happen He's a free agent. It could happen. He could sign with the Bills.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It could could.

[Mike Catalana]

He's a Raven. I feel like he's lining up against the Bills week one.

[Dan Fates]

Ravens are Chiefs and he's going to.

[Mike Catalana]

Get the podium and I love Lamar.

[Dan Fates]

It was an honor to play with Josh.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

This is my 48th year in the NFL.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Could definitely hear that. All right. We talked D line a lot of new additions there. I think that's a storyline is obviously we saw how The Eagles, all the D line pressure they got in the Super Bowl, I think that was a lasting thing in a lot of people's minds. And the Bills, they went out this season and they beefed up their D line and tried to change things up a little bit because they know that they've needed to have more pressure.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, this feels like a totally revamped. Like, this is a complete overhaul. There's, I think even the guys. Am I boring them?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, no. I didn't sleep last night.

[Dan Fates]

You just straight up yawned during the day.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Thank God, the camera a lot going on.

[Dan Fates]

Okay. Yeah. I think this is a great opportunity if you're a. If you're a TJ Sanders or if you're a Landon Jackson, like, you have a great opportunity to come right in and make plays in this spot. And if you're A guy like A.J. epanessa, you're trying to hold on for.

[Mike Catalana]

Dear life, I would agree, because they were active and in free agency, too. Even though those guys will wait six weeks to come on board. So they did revamp. That's a good word. They revamped this position. They made Greg at cornerstone. They did. They paid him.

[Dan Fates]

He needs to get increase his physicality. Mike, that's your boy.

[Mike Catalana]

He'll be ready.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Who said that?

[Dan Fates]

Sean McDermott.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes, he did.

[Jenna Cottrell]

He did.

[Dan Fates]

He was around the quarterback a lot.

[Mike Catalana]

Craig, I'm counting. I'm counting on you. Let's go.

[Dan Fates]

He was around the quarterback.

[Mike Catalana]

Well, it's better than the rest of them.

[Dan Fates]

It went right to. He gets us in and out of the huddle really well.

[Mike Catalana]

By the way, can I add you. You made. You made fun of my Eagles. I will say this about the Eagles last year, their D line, especially their pass rushers, were not great for a lot of the year.

[Dan Fates]

Nobody cares.

[Mike Catalana]

They didn't care. It was in the big moments that they came through.

[Dan Fates]

That feels like the Bill's wide receivers, like, it was a big deal. And then the offense was so good and it's like, well, hey, doesn't matter.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

You got to make the plays when it matters most.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's the lasting impression. Whatever happens last is the lasting impression.

[Dan Fates]

Like, you forget that through five weeks of the season.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That is why James Cook, that leaping touchdown. I'm like, dude is a baller.

[Dan Fates]

I guess that's my point where it's like, we're so Josh wins the mvp. The offense was so great, scored the most points out of any team in the league, and you're like, yeah, but in week five, you thought their Wide receiver sucked and you had to trade a third round pick from Mari Cooper who now is not coming back.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well. And in the biggest moment in the AFC championship, you didn't have right enough and you didn't have enough D line pressure on the other side.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Last thing. Hard knocks.

[Dan Fates]

What's the pun?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Hard knock life.

[Dan Fates]

There it is. We're really good at these. How's it go?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Hard knock life.

[Mike Catalana]

I think it's a great thing for the franchise. I think it's a non issue. I think this team is built to do well in this environment.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

I think they knew at some point they were going to have to do this. They're doing the mid season, you know, in season with a division, all those kind of things in the off season stuff. Here's the one thing. When we talk about James Cook, the one thing that could be a distraction is if it's a hold in.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

He's there and he's not practicing and.

[Dan Fates]

All the cameras are on him on the sideline.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. I don't. Those things are weird. I don't know if that happens. I have no idea the way it plays out. But other than that, I'm not worried about this team. I'm just not. I know a lot of fans are. First of all, if you just say you're worried, they're worried. Some are worried that something. Something bad comes out during camp. Like there's an issue. Somebody says something.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. That's every.

[Mike Catalana]

And it gets out or the other thing is some people think it's like some sort of a jinx. No, it was crappy teams.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

They were non playoff teams. Right. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I don't worry about that. I think it's going to be a great thing for the organization. Not worried about it.

[Dan Fates]

I agree.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Nonissue.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm excited. I think it'll be really cool.

[Mike Catalana]

I think Sean is going to do Well.

[Dan Fates]

I agree. 100.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree.

[Dan Fates]

I think this Sean three years ago. I don't know Sean right now.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think Sean will do very well. Obviously Josh will do. We got to be like when we ask questions, we got to be locked in in case they use them.

[Dan Fates]

I'm not very concerned about that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Excuse me. I am deeply concerned for myself.

[Mike Catalana]

People are gonna. So those eight o', clock, Sean, what is it? Or what time? Eight. What time does he start on the camp?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Like it's usually like nine.

[Mike Catalana]

Nine o' clock now. Yeah, nine o'. Clock. There's gonna be people showing up at like 8:20.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Get my spot yeah, that's fair. Where the cameras gotta have a lot of Buffalo plus gear.

[Mike Catalana]

That's right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Speaking of, Dan, take the shot. This is an embroidered sweatshirt, Buffalo Plus. You can find it on the Buffalo plus store.

[Dan Fates]

Buffaloplus store.com Big things also coming with the Buffalo plus store. Hoping to have news on that coming up very shortly as well.

[Jenna Cottrell]

And, and a reminder, if you love watching our podcast, you can always find the audio version available wherever you listen to your podcasts. Creatively named Buffalo Plus. Keep it really simple here.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But, yeah, feel free to, like, comment and subscribe over there, as well as rate the podcast. We do appreciate that, too. Anything else, gentlemen? Oh, we got to do. Credit to me.

[Mike Catalana]

I'll do. I'll start mine quick. I was a outdoor helper, mulch spreader, plant ripper out for my wife this past weekend. It was lunacy. She is a florist. She is very demanding of what she wants. She works harder than me. But it was a lot. It is a lot. And the stuff looks really nice now, so I'm very happy. But at a certain point, somebody said to me, oh, how was your weekend? I was like, I work like a dog.

[Dan Fates]

The weather stuff out. Weather has been horrendous. It is just rained every single day in May. It finally stopped raining. And my wife's like, we got a mulch. I was like, mother, yes.

[Mike Catalana]

Not a mulch.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I like mulching.

[Mike Catalana]

I will say also. And they are a sponsor at channel 13, so I can say this shout out garden factory in our area. That place is insane. The amount of stuff they have.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

My wife, she could walk around there and like, window shop at the place. She loves everything she sees there.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But.

[Mike Catalana]

But that mulch was a lot of work.

[Dan Fates]

And digging that stuff, I don't like that mulch. The next day, it doesn't pop like it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, I disagree. I love mulch because first of all, it's like cover up for your lawn, for your. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, but truly, where you're like, the thing I don't mind about yard work is you can see the immediate result. Like, if you weed something, you're like, I did that. And I can tell that I did that. Whereas some other stuff, it's like, oh, my God, you know?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I had to get the mulch ready for the backyard, see if we get any visitors at camp this year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Pressure's on.

[Mike Catalana]

That's it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Got the Blackstone out there, too.

[Mike Catalana]

That's right. Yeah, same.

[Dan Fates]

We're all Blackstone family.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Look at that. Yeah. My parents.

[Dan Fates]

Game changer for breakfast. Game changer for breakfast. My credit to me is credit to urgent care and for anybody that has small kids. Janice knows exactly where this is going. It's. We have just been. The house has just been sick. The house has been sick. My oldest had an ear infection. 48 hours later, the other, the middle child had a double ear infection, so she topped the first one. God bless urgent care. And they also. The oldest one gets the bubble gum medicine. Loves it. She can take it all by herself. She's four and a half. The one and a half year old does not. She cannot take amoxicillin. She's allergic to it. So she has to get this other stuff. We pretty much have to strap her down and shoot it in the back of her throat. It is very traumatic for her. It's very true. If there are any helps, like any, any tips for helps. If there are any. If there's any helps. I was, I was, I was hot earlier. Yeah, we. My daughter loves these like smoothies. So we just give her like a smoothie in like the cup with the straw.

[Mike Catalana]

So you spike the smoothie.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And then she'll take a sip of it and then she'll be like, she.

[Mike Catalana]

Knows, she knows, she knows.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You put it in peanut butter. Like.

[Dan Fates]

Come here. Good, Ryan, Good job.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That is tough because the bubble gum is like delicious.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And she broke out in a rash. Fair skinned redhead.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you know what is it like, just tastes like an antibiotic.

[Dan Fates]

It tastes like strawberry. The one that she has now.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, okay.

[Dan Fates]

So it's not, it's not like medicine flavored.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, okay. I wasn't sure. Oh, she really doesn't like it.

[Dan Fates]

And like, even if we're be like, hey, we're gonna put in yours, we're gonna get you a smoothie. And then like she walks in and we're like. She just knows. We did apple juice yesterday. Worked in apple juice. So hopefully that's the thing.

[Mike Catalana]

She could be listening to the pod and knows.

[Dan Fates]

Very true.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

But yeah, urgent cares, they just want to. We also have like one of the few pediatric urgent urgent care.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you have like a punch card?

[Dan Fates]

We could. We walk in, they're like, hey, Dan, drive through. I just put on Buffalo.

[Mike Catalana]

You just hand it. Which kid?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, we're like, we'll be back again with our, you know, six month old when she gets her ear infections.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Fates]

If there are any tips on how to get a one and a half year old to take medicine.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Tips or tricks.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Or helps also Apple juice weirds me out. It just.

[Dan Fates]

What about frogs?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, no, I hate frogs. Awful. Okay. My credit to me is actually going out to caregivers everywhere. So we've talked about my grandpa. Love him. And it's, you know, he's a hundred years old, but he has such an amazing team around him of nurses, specifically his one head nurse, Kelly. I just want to shout out just the incredible job that they've done and that every caregiver gives because that is a, that is a full time job and there is the emotional investment and all those things and it's gotta be really challenging, but they make a world of difference. So I just wanted to shout out just all the amazing nurses and caregivers out there because that, that is a really important job, but it's also very challenging. So just very great. Yeah, I was to say, I just, you know, we talk on a podcast and these are people that are literally taking care of your loved ones and, and, you know, looking after them and giving them the care that they deserve. So I just wanted to applaud them and all that they do. Yes. Because what we do does not matter.

[Dan Fates]

Matters to you. To like, comment and subscribe.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Wow.

[Dan Fates]

To us.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What a plug. All right, that'll do it for us here. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We always appreciate it.

[Mike Catalana]

Steph's picking us up on the boat. We're gonna pick us up.

[Dan Fates]

Not on that boat.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I'm not on that boat. All right, let us know in the comments your thoughts on some of these topics, what you think of Kincaid and Keon James Cook, the secondary, all that great stuff. So please let us know how you're thinking and feeling about everything as we get into June and mandatory mini camp soon. All right. For my Catalana and Dan Fates, I'm Jenna Cottrell. Thank you so much for joining us here on Buffalo plus, presented by Connors and Ferris.

[Dan Fates]

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[Jenna Cottrell]

Now boarding Premier Altitude Elite Club members.

[Dan Fates]

You could have bought a Hyundai on Amazon.

[Mike Catalana]

Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

[Dan Fates]

Limited availability pickup through participating Hyundai dealer in select markets.