← Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
The Bills VET with the MOST PRESSURE & the TRAINING CAMP BATTLES we want to see
00:44:38
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- [00:02]
A
Don't kid yourself. There are real position battles for the Bills at Fischer this year. We'll break them down. Plus, which core player has the most pressure to perform this year and what is the bet on the Bills? You can't wait to make all that's coming up on this week's edition of the Buffalo plus podcast.
- [00:24]
B
Welcome back to the Buffalo Podcast, presented by Buffalo Mike Catalana, Dan Bates. I am Jenna Cottrell. We got the band all as we have another podcast episode before we get started. Please be sure to like, comment, subscribe as well as share if you enjoy our stuff with some of your friends. The Buffalo Plus Channel. We always appreciate it. We are inching closer to training camp, being back at St. John Fisher in Rochester. And as we get there, Mike, I feel like we talk so much about this team, where they're headed, the expectations, all of those things, and we know most of the starters on this team, but there are some position battles to talk about. So in your head, who sticks out in terms of that?
- [01:05]
A
Well, when I look at position battles and I look at what's happening this year, sure, we can focus on quote, unquote starters, but you know how that works, right? If you're talking wide receiver or defensive line, I mean, multiple guys play. So when I look at position battles, Dan, I look at it more like playing time in the rotation, offensive lines a little different. We've seen this team and that's one of the groups I wanted to talk about, but we've seen this team keep moving until they focus on the five best, whoever that five are, because you like to keep them in there. But Dan, man, I see some serious battles at wide receiver and playing time on that defensive line.
- [01:45]
C
The wide receiver one will be played out. I don't even think in training camp, like, I like, I think that they're gonna have so many options that that's gonna carry on throughout the season. I, I really think that, like, obviously there's. There's guys that have the leg up or will get the first crack, whether it's Isaiah McKenzie at slot receiver. But I also thought that Jameson Crowder, you know, will provide some experience, some depth there. Yeah. That we, we so quickly peg, like, oh, 1, 2 and 3 of the wide receivers that Josh Allen has, and that's going to be it. I think you're right. I think that big picture you look at, everything's fine. When you start looking at the fine details, it's. It's still very blurry.
- [02:33]
B
Yeah, I don't think it's. There's just so many options, I feel like. Or there's so many variations. I mean, you know who the top guys are when you think about wide receivers. But yeah, and even the guys like Tavon Austin, you know, a guy who we kind of thought coming in be like, all right, maybe a, you know, a depth guy, competition guy. We've had a very small sample size of him at mandatory camp, but still been impressed by what he's. The small sample size that we saw. I just think it's going to be how everything breaks down. I think that is what I'm curious at and I think I agree. I don't even know which one of you said it of like maybe this is a week by week kind of thing as we see going forward. Because I think of players who kind of like Isaiah McKenzie had an up and down season but that game in New England, like the, the role that he had and maybe we're gonna see games like that where it's like a player kind of pops for one week and then maybe it's another guy the next week.
- [03:29]
A
But hang on a second guys. There's going to be a good player, maybe a veteran player cut in training camp. You can't keep them all. They just redid Kumaro. Right. And you would say in terms of wide receivers that he would fall down behind Tavon Austin, Jameson Crowder, Isaiah McKenzie. Right. Because he just hasn't really had that role. But they love him in that team's role. Do they find a player at another position that can fill some of that role, A linebacker, defensive back, whoever it happens to be. So they don't need to keep another wide receiver there. Because when I start going down this wide receiver list, I mean are you really keeping all these guys? No. And then we've talked before about does Isaiah Hodgson, Hodson.
- [04:13]
C
Yeah.
- [04:13]
A
Team or these. No, we're talking about is Jameson Crowder fighting for a roster spot coming in? Is Tavon Austin fighting for a roster spot coming in to camp? Because how many wide outs do you think they're keeping on the 53 man roster? You know they're going to hide a guy or two on the practice squad maybe. But yeah, you start looking at it.
- [04:34]
C
And you go right now and probably get crap for this in the comments, I'm sure. But like it guys, there's a steep drop off after Gabe Davis like in, in NFL production.
- [04:50]
B
Yeah, I don't think that's.
- [04:51]
A
It's roles though. It's roles with those.
- [04:53]
C
I understand that but like when we've come into Seasons before, we're like, Mike, I remember you always talking about, like, how the wide receiver position used to be one of the weakest positions for Buffalo, and then it quickly rose to one of the best in the NFL when they added Stefan Diggs. And you had Cole Beasley. You had two guys that were all pro. Then you had Emmanuel Sanders. And I know that, like, he wasn't what he is or what he was, but he's still Emmanuel Sanders. Like, he's still a professional starting wide receiver. And after Gabe Davis, who I have my reservations about, there is a whole bunch of what if and hoping.
- [05:32]
A
Jenna, I was just going to say if Dan wasn't getting the comments when he started, when he started about his reservations on Gabe Davis.
- [05:42]
C
Yeah, that was fun.
- [05:45]
A
Yeah. But come on. Tavon Austin's an established guy who's been in the league. Jameson Crowder has been a pretty productive player in his career. Actually productive against the Bills a lot of times in the past. I'm saying is these are guys more on that John Brown scale that have been there and have played, and you're backing off.
- [06:07]
C
I think John Brown's way better than Crowder. And when, when, when they had John Brown, I think he was.
- [06:13]
A
Again, we're talking about the role that they.
- [06:16]
B
I think their roles are so different.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah, we're talking about the role. And then you draft a guy like Khalil Shakir, does he have a spot on the regular 53? Man, I mean, depending on how he looks, I know he's a little nicked up in camp. Like, I see real competition here. And, you know, and. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a really good thing. You do start out with quality, I think, with certainly, obviously with Diggs.
- [06:43]
B
Yeah.
- [06:43]
A
And I think Gabe Davis can be really good. We've talked about, you know, what he needs to do this year, but I think these are real battles going on.
- [06:52]
C
I think they're real battles. But I think the one thing that worries me, as I've said, I. I go when you start to get to. Is Tavon Austin your fourth wide receiver? Or is Jameson Crowder or Isaiah McKenzie getting, you know, a lot of offensive snaps, which is something that he has never done, especially as a wide receiver slot position. All those guys remember, and I know this is a new offensive system, but like, Josh took more snaps in 10 personnel than any quarterback last year. So four wide receivers. Three. Four wide receivers. Like, you need depth. This is why I was team wide receiver in the draft, because it's Great to have Gabe Davis and Stefan Diggs. But for Josh to be successful and where he has been successful is when. Is when Gabe was the number three option or when he was that guy. Like Josh needs some of that depth and as we're sitting here talking I agree with Mike that they're battles, they're just not necessarily battles that I'm like super excited about to some level. And Mike saying like how you're going to cut vet, like there'll be a veteran that'll cut off this. There'll be veterans that'll cut from other teams that, that the Bills maybe throw, you know, a line out on and see if they, they land here like a, like a kumaro.
- [07:59]
A
Yeah.
- [08:01]
B
Dan, is there, is there a position battle then that you're excited?
- [08:07]
C
Super excited about the running back position. Like just ecstatic. The four headed monster that is who will start games. I just don't know who it's going to be. I think where I maybe disagree with Mike where I think a lot and I know Mike's talking about like the, the depth of playing time and roll but like starter wise I think a lot of these guys are written in, in pen it seems like in pencil is the running backs because of who they want to do or who, who they want to have, the direction of what they want to go. And I, and I still don't know what that direction even is. I don't know if it is a, a back that catches the ball more out of the backfield. Is it a one cut downhill guy? Aaron Cromer could decide a lot more of that as well. But finding some consistency, some success in the running game that has eluded them for the last three years to me opens up a wide door to see who's going to emerge out of that mess of running back room to be a starter.
- [09:03]
A
Do you really think Janet, you just think it's a mess in the running back room?
- [09:08]
B
Well, I feel like when you see how productive this offense has been, there's the obvious glaring hole of the running game really not being as. I mean look we know how dominant the passing game is, but when you look at a well rounded offense, and I'm not saying you need to rush the ball three times down or three times in a series, but at the same point I feel like there's obviously a room for improvement. That being said, Devin Singletary had a nice ending to his season. The Bills have obviously tried to draft. They did it again and they picked up James Cook. Will Zach Moss come into camp in the Best shape of his life. You know, I, I think they obviously want more production out of that. I, I, I'm curious just to see what James Cook is like on the field. I feel like we haven't really gotten a glimpse of what he can be. Obviously a pass catcher as well. That is someone, though, that I'm like, okay, I want to see what he looks like in terms of this Bill's offense.
- [10:03]
A
And, and to Dan's point about Aaron Cromer. Aaron Cromer both impacts some of the decisions they make on the O line, certainly, and how it impacts the backfield. And we haven't seen a guy like Cook in this offense.
- [10:16]
B
Correct.
- [10:16]
A
We really haven't. I mean, they've attempted with other guys, but yeah, this is why they drafted him and spent a relatively high draft pick on him. And things could be different this year. I mean, we joke, you know, about Zach Moss had a down year. Well, he could come in and look great this year and he'll get an opportunity. Right. So there is a battle there. I think before Dan, the way I looked at it was Mawson, Singletary and they share carries and they're both there. I don't think that's going to be the case. I think one survives and Singletary certainly has the leg up coming into camp. I mean, that's what you would think off of last year. Yeah, but again, this is what happens when you have a good team. Yes, competition changes, but it's still real. It's real competition. Because at times, Jenna, you brought up the Isaiah McKenzie thing. He got benched during the year. We thought maybe he was done for the year. Remember, he sent out that cryptic message or whatever. Then all of a sudden Isaiah gets back, Beasley's out, he has a great game. Like that was a massive game in the entire season for them. And it was Isaiah McKenzie. So these guys all play roles. It's just a matter of at camp, do we start to see more of what they want?
- [11:24]
B
Yeah, no, I agree. Also at corner, I know obviously Trey White coming off the ACL injury, Micah Hyde with glowing remarks about nobody knows how much work Trey is doing in the dark, firmly believe that, all that stuff. But in terms of the other side, Kair, obviously the first overall pick for the season for the Bills, and then Dane Jackson and Dan, when you were at the press conferences, Sean McDermott saying Dane Jackson is a winner, like the glowing remarks he had, I was like, is that.
- [11:55]
C
What, like, so you, you're the worst.
- [11:58]
A
You were that?
- [11:59]
C
No, yeah, no, see, like that's it like Jenna's skeptical when, when, when Bean or McDermott gives a compliment to a player that I've been talking.
- [12:08]
A
No, but hold on.
- [12:10]
C
It was Gabe Davis. Everybody's like, yeah, obviously he's going to say glowing things because he's a really good player. But when it's Dane Jackson, all of a sudden it's like, is that cryptic? Is that skeptical?
- [12:18]
A
Because Gabe Davis played and was impactful and Dane Jackson had a couple of moments, but he couldn't beat out Levi Wallace. Stop. And they drafted a guy, number one. Stop. He's talking about a guy who's going to fight to have a roster spot this year.
- [12:37]
B
I think he, I think he's a, he's a depth piece. But in my head I was like, I think Dane Jackson does work very hard. We've heard from other members of the media that he's one of the first people at practice, every practice. He's one of the last guys to leave. First of all, you know how well that does in Sean McDermott's mind. But I also think if I'm Kair Elam, I'm. It's. I still struggle so hard saying his name. I just, I always forget, gotta do it.
- [13:04]
A
1. It's not a name that flows easily. First.
- [13:08]
B
Elam. Kair Elam. But if I'm Kyrie Elam, I'm like, okay, duly noted. I'm just saying, Dan, you, you. Let's not pretend that the coaches don't use us as a mouthpiece to get their messages across.
- [13:27]
C
Like, if 100%, I agree with that. I 100% couldn't agree with you more there. And I'm always, I'm always the one that takes everything they say with a grain of salt because that's why when, when it was Gabe Davis, oh, he's the guy you want in your foxhole. He's such an incredible guy. He's a winner. And everybody's like, look at how great that look at. See, see, Dan, you don't get it. Gabe Davis is a star and they believe it. And then what is that?
- [13:50]
A
Four touchdowns in a playoff game.
- [13:52]
C
We're talking about our game. Like, you're talking about, like, it was.
- [13:54]
A
A pretty big game.
- [13:56]
C
I would agree. Dane Jackson also played more than a game. He played like six, seven weeks. Played in big playoff games too.
- [14:03]
B
And like when they still drafted with their first pick in the draft.
- [14:06]
C
Absolutely. Dane Jackson's a seventh round pick.
- [14:09]
A
And with Gabe Davis, they showed by basically making him the number two receiver. So that's true. But by the way, you cannot always believe McDermott. I heard him talking the other day describing somebody's golf game and he was like lots of potential, hard worker, first one at the range, all those kind of things. Great wingspan. That's what he talked about.
- [14:34]
B
That he did not trust that. Oh, my God, that man thinks I'm crazy.
- [14:39]
A
Quickest to the second ball on the ground of any player he's ever seen.
- [14:44]
B
Hey, I'm making up for some lost golf game. Mine as Mel might as well have three balls out there.
- [14:49]
A
That's it. Just. Just throw them out.
- [14:51]
B
I played really well this weekend. I did.
- [14:54]
A
By the way, Dan, she's gone out golfing without us.
- [14:57]
B
Yeah.
- [14:57]
C
Unbelievable.
- [14:58]
A
I know. We set her free.
- [15:01]
B
You guys don't have to deal with anymore.
- [15:03]
C
Fly has now grown up. Could leave the cocoon on its own.
- [15:08]
A
Now it's somebody else's problem.
- [15:13]
B
No, I just, I, I think it would. You're right, Dan. You have to analyze everything that's being said. Very highly complimentary words of Dane Jackson. But I guess I just, I listened to it and I was like, wow, that's great. And then I thought, you know, if I'm Kair Elam, I'm thinking I want to get to the, you know, the practice field before Dane. Well, he better stay later than Dane.
- [15:36]
A
He better. Because he hasn't done anything yet other than be drafted high. And look, he spoke glowingly about Levi and you know, I always, I'm a Levi fan. I just liked what he did to get there. But then they let him walk for virtually nothing. A contract they easily could have done. And they did because they think they can improve. Look, I like Dane Jackson and I said, fighting for roster spot, fighting for more playing time. Maybe he does push Elam. Maybe he does this year. That would be great. But if I hear about one more guy who's the first in, last out, I'm like, is there this huge line where everybody's there together walking in and walking out? Because there is a guy who's last in, first out. I don't know who that is. We should find out. But there is one of those guys.
- [16:21]
C
Yeah, he, he, that guy gets there early. He doesn't get there. He's not the first one in. That guy gets there early in public. That's what the coach says. All these guys get there early. One guy gets there first.
- [16:32]
B
Yeah.
- [16:33]
A
Yes, somebody.
- [16:34]
B
All right.
- [16:35]
A
Which, by the way, the other position thing was the defensive line and playing time, to me is going to be great to watch now that when you Keep that many guys active and it's rotational. It could be, to Dan's point, about week to week, who gets more snaps. But there's a real fight there for high draft picks to show something. And we know AJ Epanessa talked about three Musketeers, and he and Basham and Rousseau hanging out together and all. That's great. And I like the Epanessa pick when they made it, but he's got to show something this year because there's only so many roster spots on this team.
- [17:13]
B
Yeah.
- [17:13]
A
And at some point, they keep bringing in more talent. It's a very different room than it's been two years ago, certainly with all the new guys there. So let's see who emerges and who. I mean, my God, you brought in Von Miller, you know, so it's a very different room. I think there's a lot of competition there for playing time.
- [17:34]
B
Yeah, I think there should be as well. How much they've invested in that position and what Vaughn Miller can do on the other side. It's like, okay, you need to see some prediction production out of your guys.
- [17:45]
C
Back when it was Bill Tearling was their defensive line coach, he was the one that kind of pitched as a hockey shift. They would. They would rotate all four guys on and off the field and keeping things fresh and all those things. But. And people always assume that's what the Bills want to do, that like, that's their identity on the defensive line. I think if Sean McDermott had four guys that he know could consistently stop the run and rush the passer, he'd just play four guys. So, like this. This thought of, like, oh, it's so great they have all this depth. And we've talked about it before with the signing Von Miller, it's like, yeah, it's not always a great thing. It's not. It's not. It's not like, yeah, Depp's cool. I would rather have four guys because I'd rather have four guys that are Pro Bowlers and then four guys that are. Yeah, okay.
- [18:31]
A
Yeah, the Rams running Von Miller and Aaron Donald out there every game. So, by the way, we don't care about that. Again, Von Miller has been an 80% snap guy, and the Bills didn't have anybody even close to that on the D line. I think they also need to be smart with him. It's a long season. He's a year older, so I don't know how many snaps, but he's going to play more than Jerry Hughes played, be better right in that position. So it changes things. By the way, one last quick thing. There's no backup quarterback battle, is there? That's kind of assumed. Is it Keenan Barkley, Right? Yeah, I guess. Right. They signed him for that purpose.
- [19:13]
C
Barclays Vibes guy. Barkley is Vibes. Josh Allen's Steelers and NFT. Like, that's. That's Barkley's game.
- [19:22]
A
Yes.
- [19:23]
B
We'll understand NFTs.
- [19:24]
A
Okay, great.
- [19:26]
C
He's clubhouse guy. And specifically quarterback room guy. Right. Quarterback room guy.
- [19:31]
A
Right.
- [19:31]
B
That's gonna be a fun room.
- [19:35]
A
I would think so.
- [19:36]
B
There's some characters. Yeah. Everyone knows their. Talk about roles. Everyone knows their roles.
- [19:41]
A
Yes.
- [19:41]
C
I just have no idea anything about Case Keenum.
- [19:44]
A
I mean, he's. He's been a decent player in the league.
- [19:47]
C
Absolutely. Oh, absolutely.
- [19:49]
A
Like.
- [19:50]
C
And he's the one that threw Diggs the ball in the Minnesota Miracle. Like, we forget that.
- [19:55]
B
I forget.
- [19:55]
A
Yes.
- [19:56]
C
So that he's played.
- [19:59]
A
Lost to the Eagles in the NFC championship game, so.
- [20:03]
C
But yeah, that's Keenum's legit backup quarterback. I just have no idea if he's big into the office or old movie quotes.
- [20:13]
A
Yeah.
- [20:13]
C
Or de's nuts jokes. I'm not sure where he. Where he ranks, where he fits in with Josh there.
- [20:19]
A
Well, we'll find out. Janet, I want you to begin with.
- [20:22]
B
The next topic with which veteran core player has the most pressure to perform this season? I'm gonna be honest, I looked at this six seconds before we started our podcast.
- [20:36]
A
Okay, Dan, you go ahead.
- [20:37]
C
Some of us work hard. I. Mike, we just talked.
- [20:40]
A
Last thing, first down.
- [20:42]
B
Hold on, hold on. I'll be right back. Dan, go ahead.
- [20:46]
C
I was. You were just talking about the defensive line. I think AJ Panessa isn't not only fighting for playing time this year, Mike. I think he's fighting for roster spot. I think he's one of. I think he's one of those guys we have seen being trade fringe guys, roster guys that. Whether they. They just haven't panned out and he's traded them for a 6, 7 round pick. Nice.
- [21:16]
A
Wow.
- [21:17]
B
Sorry, Dan, I couldn't hear you over my media. This is also a weapon, too. This thing is.
- [21:23]
A
It is. By the way, Dan's next because I have that same weapon on my desk. Mine's a little older and I have one that's bigger and really old, but that thing is a weapon. The Gary Smith, great broadcaster in Rochester and Jenna won the award, so.
- [21:42]
B
Sorry.
- [21:42]
A
Congratulations.
- [21:43]
B
My award, that's. But we're gonna roll with it.
- [21:46]
A
Jenna Catrell won it.
- [21:47]
B
Oh, no. One can say my last name. It's okay.
- [21:51]
A
So Dan A.J. you got A.J. as he is fighting, right?
- [21:55]
C
Like, I think so many guys are talk, you know, we're, we're grouping him in. It seems like by default 100% a guy that's, oh, he's gonna fight for playing time. And I see him as a guy fighting to make the roster. He just, he's also a guy and like these guys are also like humans and you have like, we can't always analyze them as football players. We try to, but like, he seems like he's been kind of lost with his weight, what kind of a pass rusher he's going to be. He said in at Iowa he was bigger. He just like pushed people around. He lost too much weight. He didn't have his power then. And then when he got his power back, he wasn't as quick as he thought he was. Like, he seems like a guy that's kind of spinning his wheels. And this could be a time where the Bills, if they could get a 6 7th round pick from, from another team that, that would like that needs a backup D end and can say, hey, we'll take a chance on this guy. We loved him at Iowa and if we get him in here, like, it just seems like to me Epanessa is fighting for a roster spot more than he's fighting for playing time.
- [22:55]
A
Yeah. By the way, they also dumped Wyatt Teller that way too, which.
- [23:00]
C
Yes, they did.
- [23:01]
A
That one didn't work out that.
- [23:02]
B
Okay, so you said veteran core player.
- [23:04]
A
I don't think it can be anybody.
- [23:06]
B
Okay, well then in that case, I think a guy who has a lot of pressure on this season I look at is Dawson Knox. I think he had a solid season, kind of a breakout season last year. Obviously it's a contract year coming up for him and he's been a guy that Allen likes to target, but we know he's had those moments where those easy passes sometimes just slip through his fingers. Can he be more consistent? And you see the, the this, the standout teams and the play that they can get from their tight ends. And can Dawson Knox ascend to that level? I mean there's obviously so much belief in him, his physical traits, all that stuff and the money that comes along with it. So yeah, yeah, this year is a big year for him. He's at tight end. You actually right now that's his second year going to that. It's run by George Kittle, Travis Kelce, Greg Olsen to learn from some of the best guys in the League. And Dawson even talked about how it's still a huge learning experience for him. Like he's not really there to impart wisdom yet. It's more so talking to the other players about breaking down film and all those other things and what do better. But just when you look at the, the season he had last year is a good one, a great. Yeah, consistency. But how can he take that next step to be that guy that the Bills. Josh Allen, everyone around him believes he can be?
- [24:27]
A
Yeah, I agree with you. If he takes that step, a similar one from last year, he's a Pro bowl player. Yeah. I mean he, he was good last year, much more productive, became more of a weapon in the offense. And he can become. I gotta say, he could become a star in the league if he keeps doing it. Now, my guy is for a different reason. But the guy I think there's pressure on is Stefan Diggs.
- [24:56]
C
Love it.
- [24:57]
A
He is a great player.
- [25:00]
B
Yes.
- [25:00]
A
He has proven it and he's gotten paid. The reason I say there's pressure on him is because Josh Allen. There's pressure on Josh. There always is. But Diggs has a similar type of pressure. It's expected that he's going to be really good. Now you're coming in with a change in coordinator. You lose Beasley, you lose the veteran, you lose those guys. And we're big Gabe Davis fans. Dan's coming around on him, but all of a sudden he's the number two guy. So now if I'm defenses early in the year now, we don't know if Jalen Ramsey will be back from opening day or whatever. I am full on, you know, they always had coverage on Diggs, but I am full on saying we're taking digs out. These other guys got to prove something to me. And look, he's, he's done everything the franchise could have wanted.
- [25:52]
B
Yeah.
- [25:53]
A
But it's changes. It's at that level with Josh. I, I think, I think if you looked around the league, is he their, Is he their second best player behind Josh?
- [26:06]
C
Yeah.
- [26:06]
A
You know. Right. I mean, you would say this. So, so he's already there. I don't mean he's proven he's a really good player. I mean, now it's really on him to create that for the rest of the offense.
- [26:19]
C
I couldn't agree more because as I said, like, I'm sitting here looking at who else can fill the shoes that Gabe Davis wore last year.
- [26:28]
A
Right.
- [26:29]
C
And so like, like that kind of trickles down. And again, just my opinion right away, like I don't think Jake Kumaro can do what Gabe Davis did. So like all of a sudden, like, I don't, I, I'm not so confident in the third, fourth, fifth wide receivers on this. And we know they're gonna, we assume that they're gonna still air it out at the fashion that they are because they have Josh Allen. And I, I agree with you, Mike, because I think that there are going to be some times where it's throw me the ball and it's, I'm in double covered and double coverage and you still gotta force it to him. I, I think. And Josh has talked about that at times, wanting that to force the ball to digs to get him into games early. He changes games. You know, he can do all those things. So I, I agree. Because if Gabe Davis doesn't meet the lofty expectations that some Bills fans and the Bills and the team have for him, it's going to fall on digs to help pick up that extra slack. And that's a lot.
- [27:25]
A
I mean, he's done it already, Jenna.
- [27:27]
B
That's the thing.
- [27:28]
A
He's done it and he's gotten paid. That's what I'm saying is it's not like he hasn't already proven that he's an all pro player, but they need it. They need, actually, they need more from him this year.
- [27:37]
B
Yeah, I agree with you, Mike. More so than with Dan. Like, I feel like he has proven that role. But again, you're going to need, you're going to need even more from. Sorry, Dan, I didn't even mean to.
- [27:47]
C
Like there was like, I'm sitting here being like, I agree with Mike. And Jenna's like, yeah, I agree with Mike. I don't agree with Dan, like.
- [27:54]
B
So that. I don't know, I just, I just usually agree with Mike more anyway.
- [28:01]
A
It's, it's the whole.
- [28:02]
C
It's a Freudian slip.
- [28:03]
A
Hey, Dan.
- [28:05]
B
Dan, you're wrong and Mike, you're right.
- [28:07]
A
I gotta say this. In the wide receiver room, I think Dan did frame it pretty well here. If Gabe Davis is a little better than last year, but is, I mean, it's sort of like he's got one foot in each place, at least perceptions where he's not quite the number two guy, but they don't quite have the number three. Three guy, then it's a different room. And that's, that's why I go to digs. And again, he's been a phenomenal player for them. But boy, the pressure's on again this year. That's the way I look. And obviously it starts with Josh. There's always pressure on him. He's the quarterback. I mean, we all know that. Yeah, but he's. He's proven so much, but he's. He's got to keep proven. He's got to prove more.
- [28:46]
B
Do we bring up Tremaine Edmonds?
- [28:49]
A
Sure.
- [28:50]
B
Do we? Okay. All right. Because people are hateful in the comments.
- [28:55]
A
Yeah. I. He doesn't reach the level that when we looked at him. Jenna, I've talked about this before. You and I in Dallas for the draft and this giant of a guy walks in, stands next to Josh, and one guy has ascended to superstar and one guy is a really good player. He's a good player. And, and we're. Now we keep saying he's young and I. That's the joke. And then he's got two years left and then they pick up the fifth year option and all. So now we're running out of all that, Dan. It's do it or, you know, get off the pot, as they say. Right. This is it. Because he either does it and he gets a big deal or they're looking to move on.
- [29:38]
C
Yeah. Mike, I think you were in Ireland golfing at the number one golf course in the. In. In the world.
- [29:44]
A
In the world. Yeah.
- [29:45]
C
In. In the world.
- [29:46]
B
You know, he brought us back.
- [29:47]
C
Catalon is. Yeah. Golf guest of America of the world. Now.
- [29:50]
A
I pay for these.
- [29:54]
C
I think Jen and I did. Did one of the blogs or podcasts and we talked about. I said that I think whether Tremaine Edmonds has a great year or a bad year, I think his time in Buffalo is. Is over after this year. I, I just think that if he plays at an all pro level, he prices himself out of Buffalo and Buffalo can say, you know, the cap doesn't work, even though it's not real. Like, ah, you know, it's just too much money to pay a guy or if he plays poorly, they say we need to move on, we need to turn the page. I think that the pressure is on Tremaine Edmonds for Tremaine Edmonds to make his next contract. Like, like, I really think he's almost. This is going to come out wrong. I just don't know how else to frame it. But, like, he's almost auditioning for his next team. Like, this is the tape that the teams are going to see where he can either say, hey, my. I proved my instincts. I had a couple of force fumbles. I recovered two fumbles this year. I Had an interception finally. Like all these things, I think that is where the pressure is on for him to perform for his next team and what his contract will be this upcoming offseason. I just don't think it's going to be with the Bills.
- [30:55]
A
Jenna, you think there's any chance we see that out of him this year? Big plays and. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, we just like.
- [31:04]
B
I think you said it right. Yeah, I think he's a really nice player. But see, I kind of. I get what Dan saying. Well, I really wasn't trying to be a complete opposition to you Dan all day, but I feel like he is a big piece of this defense. And if he continues to be that same guy, the level that you've seen, kind of the consistency that we've seen it at, if the money is right, do you, do you walk away from him because he's, you know, he's. He works hard, you know, he's a good guy in the locker room, first.
- [31:37]
A
One in, last one out.
- [31:39]
B
No, I'm saying like, you know, that's.
- [31:41]
A
You make a good point, Jenna, because Brandon being drafted or. Yeah, Brandon being drafted, him gate moved up and they don't like giving up on those players. And it depends on what they see. But Dan, to your point about pricing their way out, sometimes I do wonder about, you know, in that linebacker position. This is where his age would become a real asset to him. And not to make the joke we always make, but he would be a guy with five years in the league who's still really young. So a team may be much more willing to pony up more money. Because he's not 28. He'd only be what, 24, 6, 5? 25.
- [32:20]
B
25. Right now.
- [32:21]
C
24.
- [32:23]
A
Gonna be 20. Yeah. So that's why I'm saying is it might be different. But yeah, there's Pratt. But I see Dan's differentiation here. I'm talking about Diggs. He's already proven it and gotten paid. What he's doing for the team, certainly whatever Edmonds does for the team impacts the team. But I do think he's one of those guys that if he doesn't have at least some thought of what his future is because they could have signed him at any point. Wasn't like we were here and he turned down long term deals. We didn't hear any of that.
- [32:52]
B
He will be 24 this upcoming season.
- [32:54]
C
Okay, so my, my thing, and I don't mean to be combated with Jenna. This isn't like, oh, this is now we're just gonna headbutt in the top of. Of this podcast box the entire time. When you said that, you're like, he's. He's a big part of this defense. I. I tend to disagree when I think about impactful players. Don't get me wrong. Apparently, he gets them in and out of the huddle phenomenally, which is, to me, the biggest backhanded compliment that a coach can give anybody like Mike. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't this where people are like, yeah, like, we're getting in and out of the huddle greats? Like, I would hope so.
- [33:35]
A
Okay, so let me go.
- [33:36]
B
I see what you're saying.
- [33:37]
C
No, let me finish. Hang on. Let me finish. Because I go, we're talking about impactful players. I just wrote down quickly six guys that I think have a bigger impact on this defense than Tremaine. Edmonds make more impact plays than Tremaine. I'm talking about, like, when they're not on the field, I get worried. Compared to if Tremaine was off the field, I'd be like, all right, yeah, we'll roll with.
- [33:57]
A
I'm going to count the six. I'm going to say. You're going to say Von Miller. You're going to say, I didn't even.
- [34:01]
C
Have Von because I went with last year's team. I went off last year's team.
- [34:04]
A
Ed Oliver, Matt Milano, both safeties. Trey White.
- [34:12]
B
Taryn.
- [34:14]
A
Oh, good. Taryn Johnson.
- [34:15]
C
I think those guys.
- [34:17]
A
Let me give him this. Now, you. Ed Oliver now has. If Russo moves up and you got Von Miller, does that create more opportunities for Tremaine to make plays? Are these guys impactful that we haven't seen as much on the D line, and maybe this is the breakthrough for him.
- [34:36]
C
And that's. That's my. Oh, that's been my big fear and concern is that there are players that need All Stars around them for them to rise their level. And then there are players who make other people all stars. And Tremaine. And we keep sitting here saying, well, if Tremaine gets this and if Tremaine gets that and if he gets instincts and turns interceptions, then it's like, yeah, it'd be Luke Keakley, and he'd be. He'd be all probably like, but he's not. And so, like, to sit here, it's like when. It's like when the. You know, a hockey team and you have, like, you're on the line with Wayne Gretzky, it's like, oh, that Guy was great when he was next to Wayne Gretzky. It's like, yeah, but what did that guy do when. When Gretzky left? Was he any good that. That level?
- [35:18]
A
I see what you're saying. Yeah, some guys do that. But the position itself, let's be honest, is one that, you know, if. If that player's taken on a ton of blocks all the time, it's a little harder to make plays, and maybe they free him up. Hey, look, we're waiting to see it. And to Dan's point, if the bill's biggest issue is Tremaine Edmonds plays great, and then they have a question of perfect, do they pay him or not? Okay, then let's see what ends up happening. But, yeah, I. I think we'll. We'll wait and see. But, yes, certainly there's pressure on him, but they didn't draft a guy high either, so, you know, for that.
- [35:55]
B
That's a good point.
- [35:56]
A
Yeah, that is.
- [35:57]
B
But they did pay Milano a couple years ago.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:01]
B
Well, I guess we'll see. All right, Dan, what is. What are the bets or the bet you're so excited to make on the Bills this season?
- [36:09]
C
Wow, way to really tee that one up. You were just so excited.
- [36:12]
A
No, I don't.
- [36:15]
C
We're just. Mike had talked about.
- [36:21]
B
I'm good enough at my job. No, Dan, what is the bet that you are. I can't even. So yuck.
- [36:28]
C
Mike in our group text would say, like, a bet that you're excited to make. And obviously, there are only a few out right now that you can place a wager on at a sports book, obviously. The Bills to win the Super Bowl. The Bills over, under win total is 11 and a half. That's minus 130. The bills to win the AFC east at minus 180. And Josh Allen to win MVP. So you get better odds of Josh Allen winning MVP than you do of the Bills winning the Super Bowl. And I think that's. That's the one that, like, I liked more. Just because so much of MVP guys, isn't it also the story. Like, you have to have a story to go along with it. Like, that's kind of what the media likes and to go along with the play. And like, we've talked about all this off season, how Josh has risen to superstar status coming off that game. It would just be kind of that, like, fitting toast of Josh Allen goes on, you know, loses the best playoff game of all time in the shootout and then comes back and plays well and wins the MVP. So I think that's one I like it's plus 700, that's one. And Mike, I know you're talking about like what would you be interested in whatever Dawson Knox touchdowns is. I think I, I would take the over. That was one of the ones I was just thinking of because I don't think Cole Beasley, you know, without Cole Beasley there like some red zone stuff. I think Dawson Knox will fill in as he's gotten better and better and I think that they're with there as we've talked about in this pod now it seems like ad nauseam the lack of other top end options on the offense. I think Knox has risen with. With Allen's comfort level. It's pretty high.
- [38:09]
A
Yeah. It's interesting that you say that about Josh. I guess there is a nar. It's not quite like the NBA but even we say that in the NBA and the narrative vote and we had repeat winners and I didn't find Aaron Rodgers season or Nikola Jokic's season to be any different than when they won it the year before. It was kind of odd because it could have voted more for the narrative. But in football we know it is. You got to win, you got to be a high seed. Like this is where if Josh goes out, plays like Josh and they win 13 games and they're the number one seed, he's got a great chance to win it because you know he's gonna, he's gonna put up the numbers. 11 1/2 win total, 17 games during the season. I like the. I like the over a lot this year for them and I think at that number when they go and knock off the Rams the opening game, that number is gonna. The odds then, the odds then are going to be worse because they're gonna get a win when some people might think it's a loss. I think I'm not. They're. This team's not on some revenge tour this year but man, is Jen, is he going to be talking to them about Jacksonville at certain weeks? When you go in there like that and lose a game. They haven't done that a lot. That has not been their MO to lose to bad teams. They might have played poorly but they found a way to win. I think he's on them about that. I think they play like that and I love the over 11 and a half and look, I'd take a flyer on them. I thought they were going to get there and win it last year, but I would. You know it's not great odds like what are the odds, Dan, for them to win the Super bowl plus 650. Yeah, I mean, it's still winning the super bowl, but. Sorry, you know, I, I like, I like their, I like their chances as much as anybody. Of the top teams. Yeah.
- [39:57]
C
And I like. Obviously, I like them to win the division, too. I mean, it's minus 180, so you're not getting the best odds. Everybody else is. Is a long shot, but I think when some people will say, like, oh, the division got better, as we've said before, I think that makes the Bills more likely to win it because you're hoping that the Dolphins this year or the jets can pick off the Patriots once and. And kind of help you out on a week where you're not even playing a division opponent. So, yeah, I like them, obviously.
- [40:21]
A
Who has the second odds? It must be the Patriots. Right? Still ahead of the Dolphins. I would think I would. I would. Honestly, if I had to take a flyer on somebody else in the division, I, I might take the Dolphins ahead of the Patriots. I don't know.
- [40:34]
C
Sorry. Dolphins second, then. They are then Jets. Yep.
- [40:37]
A
Okay. Whoever's third, I would take. So I would, I would probably. But it's. I think it's the Bill, obviously, it's the Bill's division to win and individually it's going to be. Obviously I'm going to take Gabe Davis over in touchdowns. I was going, oh, sorry, sorry.
- [40:51]
B
I was going to say that he stole mine. I also would do a futures on the Bills. Yeah, I, I've said it before. I think that Kansas City loss is the start of the dvd. I really do. I really do. And I think you're right, Mike, again. But no, I think the Jacksonville game can definitely send a message of this is the NFL.
- [41:17]
C
You have to bring it.
- [41:18]
A
It was so bad.
- [41:20]
B
So bad. And think of how many guys are still on that, on the team, on that game. You know what I mean? The thing about that game resonates.
- [41:26]
A
I'm sorry, Jenna. The thing about that game was Jacksonville was lousy, too. I mean, Josh Urban Meyer lost.
- [41:34]
B
Urban.
- [41:35]
A
Yeah, Josh Allenville was great in that game, but they weren't good offensively. They were terrible in that game.
- [41:42]
C
And the Bills kicker missed three straight field goals and they still lost.
- [41:47]
A
They still lost to them.
- [41:49]
B
Sickening.
- [41:49]
A
Oh, that was pitiful. And that's what I say is when you give up those kind of games. Sure, they lost to the Patriots and that one game was bad. They ended up beating him twice. But I mean, it's a division game. You lose. I mean, that. That's.
- [42:01]
B
Yeah.
- [42:01]
A
I mean, New England was a playoff team, so we're not. We're not saying that, you know, those were bad, but. Because they really don't do that. And when you look at their schedule, like, there's some tough ones, but. Oh, and by the way, I'm taking them. Are they favored or underdogs with. They gotta be underdogs with the Rams. Right.
- [42:19]
C
They're a one point underdog, I believe.
- [42:22]
A
I like them in the opener.
- [42:24]
C
Same.
- [42:24]
B
I do too.
- [42:25]
A
Yeah.
- [42:26]
B
Can you guys share what the best part of Jacksonville was for our loyal listeners?
- [42:31]
C
Chili.
- [42:32]
A
Oh, Chili's. When they brought us Chili's chips. Yes. Is my favorite restaurant in Jacksonville. And they brought us chips and it got. Without even asking Dan, the guy just brought him back.
- [42:44]
B
Like, you need these.
- [42:46]
A
Yeah.
- [42:48]
C
Chili's.
- [42:49]
A
Ever.
- [42:49]
C
It was such a sad Chili's.
- [42:50]
A
Yeah. But, you know, kind of slaps.
- [42:54]
B
Not gonna lie.
- [42:54]
A
It's funny that at certain times it looks like an oasis in the desert because a lot of times we're working late and they're like, well, Chili's is open. Let's go. There we are.
- [43:06]
B
Yeah, that's very true.
- [43:08]
A
Yeah.
- [43:08]
B
Oh, yeah. Can people send restaurants for la? I just want to know all the spots. Yeah, all of the spots. I want to map out everything. Obviously it's going to be a great game, but you know, the food well.
- [43:21]
A
Considering, you know, since you get that west coast broadcasting back to the east.
- [43:26]
B
So we can have dinners.
- [43:28]
A
It's like Vegas Dam when you got a few hours there. So your night is over.
- [43:32]
B
Yeah.
- [43:32]
A
Yes.
- [43:33]
B
Yeah, that'd be fun. Okay. Anything else, gentlemen? No.
- [43:37]
A
Nope. Getting ready for fish. By the way, just so the fans know, when they show up in July, it will be to St. John Fisher University. Yes. July 1st they get university status. They needed that to allow Josh Allen, you know, for Josh to come back. He said, I want to come to a university. So they got it changed for.
- [43:59]
B
Oh, man. They were talking about just sleeping in the dorms is kind of comical. I mean, look, I think it's great for the. The team aspect, all that. They pimp out their rooms. They have really nice stuff. But it is kind of funny. But yeah, we're excited to have camp and Fisher as well. It's gonna be a lot of fun. The four minute drive is always mint for us. All right, that'll do it. For this edition of the Buffalo plus podcast, please be sure to, like, comment. Most importantly, subscribe. And if you enjoy our stuff, if you want to share it with your other Bills friends. We always appreciate that. For Mike and Dan, I am Jenna. We'll catch you next time on the Buffalo plus podcast.