The BILLS win UGLY: JAMES COOK & Josh Allen 'FOUND A WAY' while CONCERN for the DEFENSE is HIGH

Summary

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Buffalo Plus Podcast Summary

Episode: "The BILLS win UGLY: JAMES COOK & Josh Allen 'FOUND A WAY' while CONCERN for the DEFENSE is HIGH"
Date: December 23, 2024
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes
Final Score: Bills 24, Patriots 21

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Overview: "Finding a Way" in an Ugly Win

This episode is a candid, post-game analysis of the Buffalo Bills’ narrow, hard-fought victory over the New England Patriots. The Buffalo Plus team—Mike, Jenna, and Dan—dive deep into what worked, what didn’t, and what it all means for the Bills’ playoff aspirations. The hosts focus on the offense’s struggles, James Cook’s emergence as a running threat, continued defensive concerns (especially with injuries), and the overall “ugly win” vibe. The episode is rich in insider observation, locker room anecdotes, and honest, sometimes humorous takes on the state of the team.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of the Win

• Big Picture: The Bills did what they had to, but the mood is cautious, not celebratory.
  • “It was a win, and that's the most important thing… Lousy game." (Mike, 01:05)
  • “There aren't pretty losses, so you got the win and that's all that matters at the end of the day.” (Jenna, 01:39)
  • Sean McDermott showed visible frustration post-game despite the win.
    • “If you were to just not know the context, you would absolutely assume that the Bills lost.” (Jenna, 02:08)

2. Josh Allen’s Elbow Scare

• Incident: Allen temporarily left the field with a right elbow contusion after experiencing numbness.
  • “Josh said he lost feeling in his right hand. It was a third down throw.” (Dan, 03:08)
  • “He joked… ‘It's kind of hard to throw when you can't feel your hand.’” (Dan, quoting Allen, 03:14)
• Cold as a Factor: Allen explained that the cold made the numbness worse, but minimized long-term concern.
  • “When Josh has been banged up before, he has been very short… He went in depth on this case.” (Dan, 04:06)
• Positive Outlook: The team views Allen’s openness as a sign it’s probably not serious.
  • “I think actually I take that as positive news.” (Mike, 04:33)

3. Offensive Struggles and Rhythm Issues

• Disjointed Play: The offense couldn't find its rhythm, with few first-half possessions due to lengthy Patriots drives.
  • “The offense just looked uncoordinated throughout… it just didn't look right.” (Jenna, 06:35)
  • “Hard to get into a rhythm when you are not even on the field.” (Dan, 07:15)
• Allen Holding Back? Josh Allen hinted they may be saving some plays for the postseason.
  • “It's how much are we willing to show? ...there's a line that you got to toe.” (Allen, as quoted by Mike, 08:20)
  • “It was almost like the, 'hey guys, don't freak out that we didn't score 30 points. We're kind of holding something back.'” (Dan, 08:44)

4. Receiver & Passing Game Issues

• Khalil Shakir had an uncharacteristically rough day (drops and a fumble).
  • “It was an uncharacteristic day from Khalil Shakir… Our bar for him is way up here.” (Jenna, 09:01)
• General lack of receiver separation was noted.
  • “In general, the receivers were struggling.” (Jenna, 10:09)

5. James Cook’s Breakout Game & The Value of the Run

• James Cook eclipsed 100 yards on just 11 carries, including a pivotal long touchdown run.
  • “James Cook went over 100 yards. Again, it was only 11 carries, but they were impactful. And it was the running game… that kind of sparked the offense back.” (Dan, 13:26)
  • “He glides and he picks his spots…” (Mike, 15:03)
  • “I think he's flirting with All Pro. I think he could be second team All Pro in the AFC.” (Dan, 15:24)
• Emphasis on staying with the run brought needed balance on a cold, disjointed day.
  • “It was nice to have a running game when the passing game was non-existent.” (Dan, 12:27)

6. Team Mentality & Emotional Letdown

• Hosts speculate the team’s flat start was a function of emotional exhaustion after high-stakes games.
  • “At some point, the air was going to be let out a little bit… they were not jacked up, ready to go.” (Mike, 19:23)
• Acknowledgement that the Patriots played hard and early defensive lapses almost cost the Bills.
  • “Patriots showed up. Yes. I give their coach credit… they played tough.” (Mike, 17:22)

7. Defensive Concerns

• Slow Starts & Secondary Issues: The defense surrendered early, lengthy drives and points, with clear focus on banged-up safety depth and communications issues.
  • “The two best safeties on the team [Demar and Rap] are out… Bernard is sitting there going, it's a revolving door.” (Mike, 22:54)
  • “You need guys to get healthy or they need to fix something because what’s going on now is not good enough.” (Dan, 21:37)
• Communication Breakdowns: Inexperience among backups showed.
  • “There was so much late communication… you feel bad for Bernard when he's looking around him going…” (Dan, 24:07)
• Hosts’ Concern Level: Both Jenna and Dan put their concern about the defense at a “six” out of ten.
  • “I feel like it’s like a six.” (Jenna, 27:45)
  • “For the first time that [my concern is] going over the halfway point… Either guys got to get healthy or things got to get figured out.” (Dan, 31:25)

8. Big Defensive Plays

• Cam Lewis’ first career interception was a game-changer.
  • “He made a hell of a play on the interception… First career interception for him. Huge time in the game.” (Mike, 25:22)
  • Locker room celebration: “Cam’s like, ‘Nope, I got two kids. I got no money [to buy lunch for the DBs].’” (Mike, 26:07)
• Taron Johnson’s defensive touchdown, on a fluky backward pass, helped seal the game.
  • “It ended up being a touchdown, which put the game away.” (Mike, 31:15)
  • Nickname: “Sometimes we call him Bambi, because he got them thin legs, but he made the play.” (Taron Johnson, 29:57)

9. Special Teams Missteps

• Sean McDermott called out the staff for being unprepared for a Patriots fake punt.
  • “He did call out Matthew Smiley. He said, we should have been in regular defense… on the fake punt.” (Jenna, 32:59)
  • “He said yes… is that on Smiley? And he was kind of like, yeah.” (Dan, 33:20)

10. Playoff Perspective and AFC Foes

• Brief look-ahead to potential playoff matchups and preference:
  • “Name me the team you want to see in the playoffs.” (Mike, 35:01)
  • “I don't want the Bengals to get in… if the Bengals get in, whether they win or lose, that game's going to be played in the high 30s. And that's not a game that I necessarily want the Bills to get involved in a shootout with Joe Burrow.” (Dan, 34:48)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Jenna, on McDermott’s dour mood:
  “You would absolutely assume that the Bills lost… he was definitely like, we need to have effort on every play.” (02:08)

• Dan, describing Allen’s injury:
  “Josh said he lost feeling in his right hand. It was a third down throw… it's kind of hard to throw when you can't feel your hand.” (03:08–03:14)

• Mike, on the importance of the run:
  “He glides and he picks his spots and it's not perfect, but he is one of the better running backs in the NFL.” (15:03)

• Dan, on defensive struggles:
  “They need guys to get healthy or they need to fix something because what’s going on now is not good enough. And I’m not going to try and sit here and quell all the concerns.” (21:37)

• Mike, on Cam Lewis’ interception:
  “He is a guy that Sean talked about him. He’ll play wherever they need him… you’re damn happy you got a guy like that on your team.” (26:07)

• Dan, on concern scale:
  “For the first time that [my concern is] going over the halfway point of like, yeah, either guys got to get healthy or things got to get figured out… this was a game where… that lackluster start… wasn’t a fluke.” (31:25)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening and “ugly win” context – 01:05
• Josh Allen’s elbow injury – 02:08–04:55
• Offensive struggles & Allen’s comments – 06:35–09:00
• James Cook’s impact – 13:26–16:30
• Concern about slow starts/defensive lapses – 17:52–19:46
• Patriots’ rookie QB Drake May impresses – 19:52–20:56
• Defensive health/injury issues & breakdowns – 21:26–24:07
• Cam Lewis’ interception & locker room stories – 25:22–26:07
• Hosts’ “concern level” segment – 27:12
• Special teams and coaching miscues – 32:54–33:36
• Playoff opponent discussion – 34:43–35:45

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Tone and Takeaways

True to the Buffalo Plus ethos, the tone is conversational, a bit irreverent, but honest—even when their fandom is tested by an unconvincing win. They highlight how, while every win matters in the push to the playoffs, this one did little to ease concerns about the defense, health, and offensive inconsistency. The podcast closes with a healthy dose of realism: the Bills are alive—but unless key players return and issues get sorted, “ugly” might remain the theme of their postseason path.

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For more coverage:
Visit the Buffalo Plus YouTube and social channels.
Stay tuned for the next episode: Bills vs. Jets preview and more insider insights.

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Transcript

[A]

We need to also talk about. We were driving home and Dan. Dan made a confession to us.

[B]

I know. I started to tear up.

[A]

Mike needed a. A tissue. It was.

[B]

It was beautiful. I say it was off camera, one of the most beautiful Buffalo plus moments we've ever had.

[A]

Yeah. Daniel.

[C]

That is the open. This is the Buffalo Buffalo plus podcast brought to you by Connors and Ferris.

[A]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus channel, presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. We are doing the podcast post game recap here in the studio because of the weather and it being cold. But before we do, please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. Dan was out on the field. The Bill's getting the win today, 24, 21 over the new England Patriots. It was a interesting game. It was a little ugly out there, but Mike, I want to start with you. Big picture, where is this team at?

[B]

Well, it was a win, and that's the most important thing. Hindsight.

[C]

Win hindsight.

[B]

You look back and you go in the standings. Go. Oh, yeah, they beat the. They beat the Patriots.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Lousy game.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And the defense was terrible in the beginning. Got much better. Needed to be. Offense was meh most of the day. Couple of plays, but nothing great. Special teams, couple lousy plays.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And they won. So big picture, it's a victory. Keeps them alive for the one, great shape for the two. The rest of it is not great.

[C]

Yeah, I feel like we haven't said it much this year, but the fact of it doesn't matter how you do it, but you got to win. Like you talk about hindsight, victories. I remember last year we used to say it all the time was, it's an ugly win, but there aren't pretty losses. So like, you, you got the win and that's all that matters at the end of the day. Found a way, as Sean McDermott said, but that was probably the most upset annoyed. We've seen Sean McDermott after a win in quite some time.

[A]

Yeah, his post game, he was definitely like, if you were to just not know the context, you would absolutely assume that the Bills lost, like, very much. Like, we need to be better. We need to, you know, we need to be in our gaps. We need to come out strong. We need to have effort on every play. Now, I do want to touch on Josh Allen because we didn't mention it so far, but Josh Allen leaving the game for a moment saying he had it was listed as an elbow contusion in his right elbow. His Obviously his throwing arm. He left the game due to numbness. He talked about it after the game.

[C]

But he never left the game.

[B]

Okay, well, he left the field and was attended to. Yes.

[A]

By the trainers. And you could tell visibly that something was off on the sidelines.

[B]

And he said, if we would have gotten the ball back quicker, I probably wouldn't have been on the field.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he, he would have been missing plays, but it ended up being a longer stretch that they were off the field. And then he came back. Mitch was warming up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Ready to go.

[C]

Josh said he lost 50 feeling in his right hand. It was a third down throw.

[B]

That's bad, right?

[C]

Yeah, well, it's shout out. Sal Marana asking, why'd you throw the ball that. And he goes, it's kind of hard to throw when you can't feel your hand. So yeah, it wasn't a great pass.

[B]

He did then say. He joked and said, you know, yeah, I guess I could have called timeout because it really was bothering him cuz everybody's head just swung to the side to look at the. Where the pass was gone is like, where's the ball?

[A]

Yeah, like even the players were like, what's happening? But he talked about it after the game. Now what's interesting is his left arm earlier in the season, he hit his funny bone and he said that his arm went numb. This was on his other arm.

[C]

But the more important one.

[A]

Yeah, the, the way, way more important one. But it doesn't seem like it would be an impactful thing. And I think the cold also was a play of just like it. It's easy for your hand to go numb anyways because it felt like it.

[C]

Was negative 15 out and as we don't have the jar. But it was also interesting how much he expanded on the. Ah, hit my funny bone. My hand went numb. I was trying to shake it out, but for five to 10 minutes I really didn't have any feeling in, in my hand. The cold didn't help with things like that. When Josh has been banged up before, he has been very short, very. I'm fine. Yeah, like, like he went in depth on this case of what happened.

[B]

I think actually I take that as positive news.

[C]

I do too.

[B]

Oh, okay. Because I was thinking like cuz when he's banged up and he's worried about.

[C]

It, he stays vague.

[B]

He shots up about. Now Jenna, you were watching because the old man brings his binoculars to the games and Jenna got to use them. Yeah, it's very nice of me. And she was scoping out like Josh is in discomfort. Right. You could tell on.

[A]

Well, at one point he like put his head back like this and I was like, oh, I don't like that. And then he continue. Lee was just shaking out his hand.

[B]

Yeah. But there was no X rays. There was none of that. At least we didn't hear or see.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

As he said it best. And I think we can all. Everybody listening can relate. You hit your funny bone and you think you're. You can't feel anything except, I don't.

[B]

Know, you've hit your funny bone. It doesn't usually make your hand go numb for five plus.

[C]

My hands were numb for five minutes.

[B]

But you were out in the cold, so.

[A]

I know, but.

[B]

But you didn't. You were caused. Just cold. Josh's hand didn't go numb from the cold. It was after he got hit on the funny bone and the last time it really impacted him. And it's a. I'm sure a substantial hit. I'm saying is, yes, he was cold the whole game, so I'm sure his hands were a little bothersome, but he was throwing the ball fine. Then he hits his elbow and it's five plus minutes where he can't really feel that hand. I'm sure the cold contributed to it, but that had to be a pretty substantial hit hit on the elbow.

[C]

Yeah, I think also. I know it was. Anytime Josh is banged up to any. Anytime a trainer goes over to Josh, it is news. I feel like this is one of the more. Everything's fine. It's not going to linger moving forward. I don't know if you guys knew this, but he's been playing most of the season with a broken hand, as Ian Rapaport explained to us this week.

[B]

Yeah, the network guys have it all figured out.

[C]

Yeah. Just. I mean, he hasn't been on the injury port for his hand in months.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's the other hand.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Which we all knew that he's had the glove and fingers were taped and we all pretty much knew it was a broken.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, let's go back to that.

[C]

We digress.

[A]

Yeah, I just, I wanted to mention it because that was obviously a point after the game, but the offense, Dan, the offense just looked uncoordinated throughout it. Yeah, James Cook was a bright spot. I do want to mention him, but it just didn't look right.

[C]

Yeah. The offense was struggling. I think part of that. And again, I don't want to sit here and I know fans are annoyed at this win, so I'm not trying to sit here and, and paint it with rose colored sunglasses like it's fine. It's fine. I do think reasons, not excuses that plays into it was the lack of rhythm that they couldn't get in. They had four possessions in the first half.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It was a, a punt, a touchdown, the, the interception and then the end of the half. Like it is tough to get into a rhythm when you are not even on the field to that.

[B]

The Patriots drives were 12 minutes efficient.

[C]

They moved the ball 16 play drive.

[B]

The first two drives, get to the.

[C]

Defense in a second.

[B]

But yeah, really good. And. Well, is this when we can talk about the offense and what Josh said?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So set up your question.

[B]

Well, I asked a question, but I'll be honest with you, I've asked some pretty good ones. This was a little more general about like playing against teams like New England or the jets in the division and what it's like at this point of the year when they know you so well and Josh, well, you want to just play it.

[C]

He.

[B]

Here was his answer when asked about those circumstances and he went into something about this team in the playoffs.

[C]

Yeah. And I think it's, you know, we're at a weird spot right now where, you know, we're still fighting for the one seed but we don't control our own destiny. And as an offense, it's how much.

[B]

Are we willing to show?

[C]

Are we wanting to go extreme and show everything in our arsenal? You know, when, when there's a, there's a line that you got to tow. But at the end of the day, you know, we're just trying to go one and O each week and find a way to win against these guys.

[B]

When I say I don't think it was that kind of question because I wasn't even thinking he would go there. Yeah, he wanted to say that.

[C]

Yeah. He was waiting for an opportunity to say like, where we may not be showing everything and at this moment of this spot because they don't control their own destiny. It was almost like the. Hey guys, don't freak out that we didn't score 30 points. We're. We're kind of holding something back.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Which I thought was interesting.

[A]

The, the thing that I was, I felt like the receivers were really having trouble separating all day. That was one thing we talked about in the press box where I was like, you just wanted to see guys a bit more open. We did mention, you know, I love my sweet boy Khil Shakir, but he had an off day. Some of those catches that you are just like automatic. Khil Shakir will catch some of those. Just didn't come. Had the fumble, obviously recovered it back, but it was one of those things where you're like, it just was an uncharacteristic day from Khalil Shakir, especially since.

[B]

Our bar for him is way up here. If he's near it, he catches it.

[C]

Yeah. We moved the goal post on Shakira.

[B]

Absolutely wild. The two fumbles, they had got the ball back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think it was Cook. Yes. And who recovered it?

[C]

Osiris Torrance. Yes. Nailed it.

[B]

But Shakir fought. It was a great peanut Tillman punch out of the ball. And then Shakir got back at it. And then he had another one that sort of went through his hands. Josh made a nice throw, deep ball and didn't come up with it. So you're right for him. We just expect a lot. And he didn't make really any of those plays in this game.

[A]

I felt like he looked a little shaky early on, and normally he settles in, but I just didn't see. See that from him. I'm not like, this is a long term thing that I'm concerned about. I just was more like. That was an observation I had where it felt like in general, the receivers were struggling. Sorry. I still have my hand warmers. I felt like there was.

[B]

So Jenna had those in the press box.

[A]

I did. I had my coat on the whole game.

[B]

Well, it was cold in the press box. But I do want to say this to Dan. Credit to Dan. He's out there for the whole game. I want to say. How cold was it out there?

[C]

It was. It was cold.

[B]

Uncomfortable, right?

[C]

Yeah, it. And it was nice that there wasn't any wind. A rare game in Orchard park where there wasn't wind wasn't a factor, but it was biting, chilling. Like you were cold to your core. And if you had any exposed skin, like, even my hands and my gloves were. Were getting cold.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was unaware for the most part of Josh's injury. Injury. Because I wasn't tweeting because, like, I didn't want to take my hands out of my gloves, even get my phone. Like, it was that cold.

[B]

And I'm sure Dan wasn't tweeting.

[A]

Dan wasn't tweeting.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

That's when you know it's negative 52 out.

[C]

Come back. I. I brave the cold and I get whoa.

[A]

I asked you if you wanted to shoot this game and you said, yeah, of course. I was like, oh, okay.

[C]

Yeah, you really Fought for it.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[C]

I mean, you said you wanted that.

[A]

Okay. I'm not gonna be like, yeah, sure. Can't wait to sign up for it.

[C]

That's why we're here in studio is I. I do appreciate the thoughtfulness of. Dan just froze his butt off in the cold for four hours. We don't need to stand.

[A]

So.

[B]

And I'm not joking when I say it was. I've been in that press box hundred. Well, that one and the other one hundreds and hundreds of times. It was. It's like, what, Terry? You don't pay the freaking heat bill. It was cold in there. But I said to Jenna, do we want to do this back in the studio? And we said, let's ask Dan. He's the guy who's been out there in the cold the whole time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You were like, let's go.

[C]

Was that before or after you guys said it was a little chilly in the press box?

[B]

Well, I just threw that in there.

[A]

Okay. We need to also talk about. We were driving home and Dan. Dan made a confession to us.

[B]

I know. I started to tear up.

[A]

Mike needed a tissue.

[B]

It was beautiful. I'd say it was off camera, one of the most beautiful Buffalo plus moments we've ever had.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That is the open. It was nice to have a running game when the passing game was non existent. When the passing game was struggling like it was today. It was nice. And I even said when they were down 14 to nothing, I looked at the other photogs on the field and I said, don't abandon the run. The Patriots struggle.

[A]

I knew that was coming. Oh.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Hold on.

[C]

This is great podcasting. Dan was right. Yeah.

[A]

No, Dan was wrong. He said he didn't need.

[B]

But now I'm talking about now.

[A]

Oh, Dan is right.

[B]

Now he was.

[A]

Yeah, he was wrong.

[B]

Now he is right.

[A]

You can find that on the Buffalo plus store dot com.

[C]

Yeah. Great last minute Christmas ideas for your friends and family.

[A]

That's actually been the most popular mug.

[C]

That's kind of surprising, but also not surprising.

[A]

Well, we know what side post people have it turn to.

[C]

This was a game when you got down 14, nothing early. And it would have been easy to abandon it. And the fact that, look, James Cook went over 100 yards. Again, it was only 11 carries, but they were impactful. And it was the running game. It was James Cook's long touchdown run that kind of sparked the offense back.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And allowed everybody to kind of exhale for a little bit of like, hey, things are going south here. The Offense hasn't been on the field much. You have the MVP caliber quarterback, but this offensive line has been so good this year. Don't get away from what you guys do well and what the Patriots defense doesn't do well. And I was very happy that they still stuck with the run that got them back into a groove where when they couldn't find one early, I thought it was nice, it was nice to have an effective running game in this spot.

[A]

Well, I think that's one of the things that we always talked about, why it is necessary because there are moments where your, your passing game is just not going to have that rhythm. It's not going to have that cohesion. So to have a second gear to go to. And I think going into the season I did not expect James Cook or gave him enough credit. I mean he's had what, 14 touchdowns this year. He's been able to be really efficient when he is out there. And, and you talked about how Mike, he's just a little bit more patient and what that has done for his.

[B]

Game in the question when he runs now it's not. And a lot of times younger backs struggle with trying to figure out, you know, they want to get through the hole, they want to go as quick as.

[C]

Or they want to bounce it outside. They're so quick to. They don't want to run between the tackles.

[B]

And you watch him sometimes he glides.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean he is.

[A]

That's a good word.

[C]

Yeah, he does.

[B]

He glides and he picks his spots and it's not perfect, but he is one of the better running backs in the NFL. There is that top notch of the. Probably the three or four best ones.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're talking about like Jacobs and Barkley and, and Henry. Henry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know those guys. And then, then there's that next level and he's. That next level right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think he's flirting with All Pro. I, I think he, he could be second team All Pro in the afc.

[B]

Yeah. Because. Well, it's going to be, it'll be Henry, obviously.

[C]

Henry will be first team and then you're. He's kind of. Taj Spears has had a really nice year. He doesn't have the touchdowns, but I'm sure we're missing somebody in the comments.

[B]

We were talking, we were just talking.

[C]

About somebody probably going to get a thousand yards. He's got 14 touchdowns. Like he's, he has been a difference maker. And to your point, like we talked about, it's nice. Your fastball is Josh Allen Yeah. Brandon Bean has said that they know the passing game is their fastball. It's nice to know that when you don't have the location. Here's the baseball analogy that everybody comes to Buffalo. Plus for. For Dan to have the fact that you can rely on your off speed pitch and how good this offensive line has been on that play. I'm watching it. It wasn't like the play clock was running down that much, but there were some motions and some things going on. And Josh is like, snap the ball. Like, we have the look we want. Give me the ball. Everybody stop moving.

[B]

We're good.

[C]

We're set here. And it was almost like in that moment, I'm like, Josh wants the ball so bad to hand it off because he knows this is the front that they want. This is the look they want. And of course it goes for 40 plus yard touchdown.

[B]

It was awesome.

[A]

Yeah. I thought that was definitely one of the bright spots of today. Just looking at my notes from this game. I have second quarter. I just wrote for the Bills offense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it really was obviously the James Cook. That was great. But in general, throughout this game, it.

[C]

Just felt like disjointed.

[A]

Yeah. Which do you think that's a concern, Mike?

[B]

It does worry me that they do have these stretches where it's not working with the fluidity that you want. And then they've usually this year been saved by Josh Allen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where he just runs and makes a play or makes some crazy throw. This was not Josh Allen, MVP game. It's not like he was bad. He just wasn't spectacular. Spectacular. And they, they still won it now. They were fortunate. They're playing the Patriots. Look, they played hard.

[C]

That's what I thought.

[B]

They played tough. They wanted to be on the field.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Patriots showed up. Yes. I give their coach credit a little bit though. He doesn't know what to do on fourth down. Dude, just go for it.

[A]

Yeah. At that point.

[B]

Yeah, it was a couple times. 4th and 1. The fake punt worked.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We can talk about special teams too. But I looked at it and thought, okay, they aren't great on offense. The defense will come around. And the defense did from that second touchdown on. Yeah, they shut him out, turned the ball over and made plays for people.

[C]

That have said before, like, these slow starts, like, and we've kind of been like, hey, it's not how you start, it's how you finish. This was the first game where Mike, my concern and my antennas went up a little bit and I kind of was sitting There going, hey, they play a playoff caliber team and they start like this, it could be put away. Is it like that was, that was. This was the first game where I said, this is. You can't start like this.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Against an offense that can bury you. Yeah, this, the patrons were never going to run away from you in this game. You kind of knew at some point that the offense would get going. Yeah, but this was the first time where I know there have been a lot of comments about, hey, these slow starts, these slow starts. This was the first one where I went, if this was a playoff start, it can't happen. It can't.

[A]

I, I agree. I guess I just, I categorized it as like, it is the Patriots. And I think it in unintentionally, you just prepare differently. Like, I think that like we talked about going into this game, this is a letdown spot for the Bills. And I think you can prepare and say, like, I'm not gonna have a letdown, all this stuff. But I just think when a team coming into Orchard park at the end of the season is 3 and 11, they have a rookie quarterback who played well, by the way. But I just think it's, it's natural to be like, hey, we can flip a switch and you're right. In the playoffs, you can't do that. You cannot rely on that because there are teams out there that will run up the score and not give you a chance. But in this situation, in this game, I wasn't worried. I was just more like, just get it together. Like just tighten up. Because you could tell some of the stuff did feel like what?

[C]

You weren't mad, you were just disappointed. You were just disappointed.

[A]

Exactly. But that's really how I felt.

[B]

Am I parsing it a little bit to say I don't think it was about the 3 and 11. Whatever they were Patriots, it was. They had had an emotional, stressful set of games and it felt like at some point, I think it, the air.

[C]

Was going to be let out a.

[B]

Little bit that they were not jacked up, ready to go. And I say give the Patriots credit. They had a good plan early.

[A]

They did. Yeah.

[B]

Jenna hinted at it. That team stinks. They might have found a quarterback.

[C]

Drake May has nothing around him. Nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No. No coaching, no playmakers, no protection. That kid can ball.

[A]

Yeah, he had some really nice, very poised.

[C]

I thought they were after the first series, they hit him like three or four times. Rousseau, Cam, Lewis, like they had pressure on him. They dial up some blitzes and I'm like, He's going to get rattled. Was never rattled. Yeah, I give him credit for that.

[B]

Their backs protect at Gibson. Gibson.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He twice toe to toe with Dorian Williams flying in on blitzes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he held him up. But he stands in the pocket and makes throws. He runs the ball effectively. He looks down the field.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He never, honestly never really looked like a rookie to me in this game at all.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

And I know he scoffed at some of the Josh Allen analogies. Comparisons. I thought there were a couple of throws when he's backpedaling and you're like he's just going to throw it away and he made a play. Yeah, that's, that's a Josh Allen like play. You know, it's, it's Josh Allen diet.

[B]

And not rookie Josh. No, rookie Josh didn't really do that. He just sugar hide and made plays and jumped over people. But, but they scuttle. They got a long, long way to go. But if you have the quarterback or think you do, that's a big play.

[A]

Plus. Yeah, that's huge. Let's talk about the Bills defense because obviously early on, not great, the two touchdowns. But then they settled in, had some turnovers. Cam Lewis, the big interception defense able to score as well. Dan, what did you see? Big picture from the defense.

[C]

Not great. I, I think they do get credit for forcing the turnovers trail. Bernard is a dog.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

12 tackles. The force fumble, like all of that's great. You got to get off the field on third down.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And like I, I've been the one, you know, hey, like take it easy. Like the defense is, is, you know, they'll figure it out. All these things. They have injuries. Yes, they have injuries, but they need guys to get healthy or they need to fix something because what, what's going on now is not good enough. And I'm not going to try and sit here and quell all the concerns about this because 14 nothing down sick. You can't give up 16 play drives like, like that is a backbreaker. And they gave it up a bunch. Yeah, there were a couple nice throws. The tight ends were, were open for the, for the Patriots. They got gashed on some runs like it was a, a con. A complication of all. Compilation of all these things that I've had concerns about with the Bill's defensive line stopping the run and it wasn't great. I'm not going to try and spin this through it.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

It felt like early we. What did we talk about? They are picking on bail inspector. They are Picking on Kyer Elam. And it is obvious, and it's working.

[B]

Yeah. And Cole Bishop, you know, and I know there's some people out there that are like Cole Bishop, and I think he has the physical ability to eventually be a really good player. I think they miss Demar on the field and they miss Taylor Rap.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

They're the two best safeties on the team. I'm sorry. That ruins the narrative that a lot of people have. And I feel for Terrell Bernard because he's sitting there going, it's a revolving door. Milano's out. Spectre unfortunately, was in. He's just not a good enough player. I know they wanted him out on early downs to be a little more.

[C]

Physical, and I know Dorian's banged up, but I would still take Dorian at 70% than balance specter at 150.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And we have seen what Dorian has done this season. He has been solid. He was leading the team in tackles when Milano came back. Demar was second in tackles. That shows. And again, you. If you want to talk about coverage and you want to talk about bad angles, I get it. Demar has done all of those things. He doesn't necessarily miss a whole lot of tackles when. When he's in the box making plays. And that is especially, like you said, you feel bad for Bernard when he's looking around him going, hey, there was so much confusion. I felt like, on the back half of the secondary. And that's the inexperience. And that was one of the things I said. The reason that I said Demar and Rap are going to start in training camp, Pat myself on the back was because of the. Because back. Because of the experience that they had.

[A]

Our boy.

[C]

There was so much late communication, like, up until the ball being snapped. Even in my lens, I could see that Bishop and Lewis are like, what are we doing? Where are we supposed to be? And other guys are trying to point it out to him.

[B]

And to Jenna's point, this is against Drake May and the nobodies. This ain't against Mahomes or Joe Burrow or Tua or like, whoever ends up in these early games. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is Justin Herbert.

[B]

This is against a team with no weapons and not a good offensive line.

[C]

It felt like a couple times literally trail Bernard. They're breaking the huddle. And Cole, and he's going to Cole Bishop, like, stand here, go here.

[A]

There was absolutely times where you'd see Terrell be, like, pushing someone into a spot, which. That's. That's. That's a lot.

[B]

And you mentioned him. I was just going to say credit to Cam Lewis.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He missed a tackle on the touchdown run.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He does put his head down there, man. And that's against some big dudes. He does that. But he made a hell of a play on the interception. It's funny on the TV broadcast because we're where we are in the press box. We're looking straight down and that throw is coming in and he is flying across the end zone and makes a play. First career interception for him. Huge time in the game.

[C]

Big play.

[B]

It's a three point game. They're either tying it or taking the lead. And that's. That's the first pick he's had, so that was huge for him.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, no, go ahead. I was just saying the locker room after, the guys were having some fun.

[B]

So where was. When I was talking to Taryn Johnson, I said to him, hey, Cam. And he's like. He went on and on about Cam. And then I said, you guys gonna do anything for him? It's his first interception. He goes, you know what? We probably should. Where's Cam? He started saying, where's Cam? And he's like, we should do something for him, like, whatever. And then it was Christian.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Comes over behind while we were talking to Cam, and he's like, okay, Cam, that's great. Now are you gonna buy lunch for the defensive back room because of your first interception? Almost like a hole in one where you buy drinks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Cam's like, nope, I got two kids. I got no money. I'm not doing it. So amazing. But he is a guy that Sean talked about him. He'll play wherever they need him to play. He's playing corner. I know he's small and I know he's not a star and I know he's not a starter, but you're damn happy you got a guy like that on your team that can step in there and play positions for you.

[C]

Step in.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[C]

But I'm just saying I walked away from this game. And I want to ask you a question. You guys a question a second. I walked away from this game going, the safeties need to get healthy or Micah Hyde needs to get game right.

[A]

I think that's fair.

[C]

And where are you on. Where are you guys on your concern for this defense? Because listen, you went up against a Rams offense that was red hot like that. That was just their perfect game. There was nothing.

[A]

Kitchen sink.

[C]

Yeah. And then you went up against the Lions So I get it. We said this is like, where are you guys on the concern scale of 1 to 10, 10 being your very concerned, 1 being, hey, no problem. Where are you guys?

[A]

I think I honestly would need to know more about the health status. Like, I need to know how close guys are to coming back. But the fact that you have both of your starting safeties out of the lineup and then Rasool Douglas as well, it makes sense to me that they're struggling. To be honest, I wouldn't think it would be as much of a drop off as we have seen. But I think when you have Balen Specter and Cole Bishop and guys that are, you know, Matt Milano obviously wasn't in the lineup too. So in terms of concern, I would say it's right now. God, I feel like it's like a six.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would say those injuries now, I.

[B]

Would say this the Lions game is misinterpreted a little bit, I think because I think the defense excuses. I played really well.

[C]

Yeah. Nobody wants to hear till late in the third.

[B]

Yep. They had given up what, 14, 14.

[C]

Points to late in the third to the Lions.

[B]

A team with great weapons.

[C]

Someone like, someone's just going off.

[B]

Social media darling here. Look out. And then it fell apart late and then it was those. Because all those guys were out in that game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the linebackers did go out. So they do miss the linebackers. Tell me it's healthy, Dorian. Healthy Milano, Healthy rap. But to your point about Micah. Hey, Micah. Like, I'd like to see him out there if they need him, get some.

[A]

Reps, have him be elevated.

[B]

That's why I'm a little surprised we haven't gotten to the point. We've got two more games.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You would want to see him on the field. I would think he's on the practice squad. Like, maybe it's. I don't know.

[C]

Listen, I know I've been a Sean McDermott, Bobby Babbage defender. I think that they get the most out of everything. The system is great. All those things. These last three weeks have raised some concerns. And I know people have about. And I know people like, said when it was like week 13, people like, well, what would this be in the playoffs? I'm like, it's week 13. Like now we're getting closer to the point. And again, you're now playing lower caliber offenses and I wasn't thrilled. Again, you made the turnovers trail. Bernard, great punch out. Cam Lewis making a play.

[B]

The.

[C]

The touchdown by Taryn is a little bit of A fluke of the play throw going behind the line of scrimmage. Russo blows it up. But it is kind of a screwy play in general.

[B]

So can we. Let's just listen. I got the play for you. With Taryn on what happened on that play and Greg Russo, why didn't you pick up the ball? So what'd you. What'd you see on that play in the way it worked out for your touch?

[C]

Greg made an incredible play, and he on the ball fast enough.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[C]

But all the credit goes to him. I mean, he made an amazing play. I was just there to finish it. That's all.

[B]

He was trying to get to the ball. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, sometimes we call him Bambi.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Because he got them thin legs, but he made the play, so just helping our team.

[B]

Bam. Bambi's kind of funny. You know what I said to Jenna during the game? It's like, I'm watching and we're set a lot.

[C]

I was gonna say.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

That was pretty. That was a layup. And you.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Dunked it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Thought it was pretty good. You were sitting there.

[A]

No, you were.

[B]

You were sitting there with your hand warmers. Oh, and by the way, I have to mention this, you didn't think the defense moved maybe quick enough. Elite speed. Jenna, it's like this. She looks. She goes, oh, oh, people are. People are eating already. It's the second quarter. She's like, next thing I know, gone out. Very well timed. It was during a break in the action. Comes back with, like this massive train.

[A]

There was a lot of food on my plate.

[B]

And this is SEC early second quarter.

[A]

It was 506.

[B]

Elite movement sheet. Got quicker, locked in and got there and made the play. But I was saying during the game, I'm like, this is when you need somebody to break through on the defensive line, strip, sack, make a play, get the ball out of there. And they didn't really have that. So one little flash of Von Miller.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, Rousseau made a. You know, that play was a function of the mistakes they made. That should never be a backwards pass.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it ended up being a touchdown, which put the game away. But no, overall, it's a concern because one game and you're out.

[C]

And that's why I feel like Sean's displeasure after the game made sense. And I think the viewers, like, comment people that are liking commenting and subscribing. Like, I think they kind of had that Sean McDermott sentiment of this Game kind of left a bad taste in your mouth that, like, yeah, you won. And that's great because hindsight's wins are way better than, than bad losses and things like that. But again, I, I, I Probably am a 6 as well. For the first time that going over the, the halfway point of like, yeah, either guys got to get healthy or things got to get figured out because it's excuses and reasons, but this was a game where, again, I know they made adjustments. Sean talked about, like, they can't start the way that they did. He gives them credit for the way they bounce back, but it was that lackluster start. And you said this wasn't a fluke, like, the, like the start to that game.

[B]

They got, they got pushed around.

[C]

They got pushed around. And that was the concern where I'm sitting there going, dayquan, Ed, where are you?

[B]

Make a play like. And it was. They only had 14 points until right at the end.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When Kyer helped lead them to the end zone.

[C]

Wait, another pass interference on Kair.

[B]

I mean, Kair, like, they weren't ticky.

[C]

Tack like they were, they were flags.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He earns his money's worth.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But, but it wasn't even about that. It was that they just got pushed around by the Patriots. And even though, even with the, with five backups on the field, that's not good.

[A]

I thought it was interesting after the game, Sean McDermott talking about specialty teams.

[B]

And how they were unprepared.

[A]

And he essentially, he, he did call out Matthew Smiley.

[B]

He said, we should have been in regular defense.

[C]

Defense, safety. Yeah. On the fake punt. That they should have never had the punt team out there. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then he kind of mumbled. I didn't know exactly what he said because Matt Perino.

[B]

Dan is right.

[C]

Because Matt Perino asked like, is that on Smiley? And he was kind of like, yeah, all right.

[A]

Oh, he said yeah, though. Like, he said yes was.

[C]

Yes. It was his tone from answering the question and then going down to yeah.

[A]

McDermott was also a little under the weather. You could tell.

[B]

Yeah. Which he was under the weather and pissed off.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

At his own team. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Which I kind of like seeing that fire. I'm not like, hey, guys, everything's fine. We got the win. It was like, a lot needs to be, A lot needs to be addressed.

[C]

That wasn't the standard all week. I felt good because they talked about how it doesn't matter that they're 3 and 11. We have to hold our end.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Discipline the, the focus, the Focus all those things. There wasn't that in the beginning. Great second half again. I understand it. But that's not going to cut it when it gets to be. And like I said, there could be those conditions could be in a playoff game. You can't say it on that. The. The. The fumbles, the. The lack of offense. That needs to be worked out and you're running out of time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now you still have the enigma and then you have this team again at home for the last game of the season.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

So you might. Neither game may matter.

[A]

I was gonna say maybe you're resting starters. Depending on.

[B]

Depending on what happens with the Chiefs on Christmas and then we'll go from there.

[A]

Anything else Now I'm just thinking of Patrick Mahomes and how he healed so fast.

[B]

He is.

[C]

I don't want the Bengals to get in to the seventh.

[B]

Yeah, I know, but everybody always talks about. Oh, man. Nobody wants to see that team. Nobody. Okay. Name me the team you want to see in the playoffs.

[C]

Chargers.

[A]

Yeah. But even then.

[C]

Okay, I would take Chargers.

[A]

Oh, them coming. East Coast.

[B]

East Coast. That's good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Having them there.

[A]

That is definitely. He just. You just named a team that you would. So.

[B]

No, I'm saying. Well, actually, I would say. No, I would say you're right. Hope for a bad weather day. Because that is a. Say is a well coached team, the Chargers. No pressure. And they got a quarterback who can move and make some throws and they can run the football.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that.

[C]

But.

[A]

But I get.

[B]

The other team has Joe Burrow.

[A]

I would say. I know this. I think the thing is. Is the playoff experience that Joe Burrow.

[B]

Has and the Bills have a bad loss to Joe Burrow in the playoffs.

[C]

Yeah. Like I just.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think if the Bengals get in, whether they win or lose, that game's going to be played in the high 30s. And that's not a game that I necessarily want the Bills to get involved in a shootout with Joe Burrow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But again, they. We'll see.

[A]

All right, thank you so much for watching. Please be sure to like, comment, subscribe. Let us know in the comments how you felt about this game. Where is your level of concern on the defense? Scale of 1 to 10? 10 being being most concerned, 1 being like, it's all right.

[B]

And Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to all of our viewers. When you need to get away from family, we're here.

[A]

All here.

[B]

Yeah. Just go. My buffalo plus family has. Yeah.

[C]

And Thirsty Turtle.

[B]

Yes. That is the Thursday before the playoffs begin, I think. Is it what day is that? The 9th.

[C]

9Th.

[B]

I thought 9th of January.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thirsty Turtle in Pittsford, if you know. Or Victor. I'm sorry, you know. You know, it's near East View Mall. People know where the mall is.

[A]

Oh, I know where the mall is.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Why is that?

[A]

I went shopping. I went holiday shopping for friends and family.

[B]

Good for you.

[C]

And bought stuff for yourself.

[B]

Yeah. But enjoy your holidays. But check us out. We will have content this week. We're going to talk to a Jets reporter. We're going to have our podcast. We'll have stuff out there for you.

[C]

You ask, we answer.

[A]

Wanted to shout out. Rodney, big Buffalo plus fan. Rodney, we really appreciate you watching. All right. For Mike and Dan, I'm Jenna. Please be sure to like, comment, subscribe and share. Like Mike said, have a great holiday season. We really appreciate you all and you know it. We'll have plenty more content this week as we roll ahead to the Bills facing off against the jets on Sunday. All right, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time here on Buffalo plus, presented by Connors and Ferris Foreign.

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