The Buffalo BILLS' DEFENSE: Can They Be ELITE in 2025!?

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast: The Buffalo BILLS' DEFENSE: Can They Be ELITE in 2025!?

Release Date: July 15, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the Buffalo Bills’ defense ahead of the 2025 NFL season. The Buffalo Plus team brings their combined expertise to discuss whether the revamped defensive roster, with its youth movement and offseason changes, can rise to elite status. The hosts analyze positional groups, individual players’ development, and the impact of coaching continuity, while expressing cautious optimism mixed with realism about roster questions and the challenges ahead.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

General Confidence in the Defense

• Cautious Optimism Prevails:

  • Mike Catalana opens the episode noting that his confidence level is “not high at the moment because there’s too many question marks for it to be good. Now there’s a potential, I think maybe more potential than we’ve had for it to actually be good. Some young players, some exciting players..." (01:30)
  • Dan expresses he's “excited about this defense and mainly because it’s not what it was. Like, they didn’t just run it back..." (02:48)

• Refreshing Roster Turnover:

  • Jenna notes, “The Quinton Jeffersons, the Von Millers — those are players that are not on another NFL roster right now...And the Bills moved on from them, which I think was the right decision.” (03:54)

Positional Breakdowns

Secondary (Safeties & Corners)

• Cole Bishop’s Critical Role:

  • The starting safety spot heavily hinges on second-year man Cole Bishop’s development.
    • Mike: “You need him so badly to step up and be so badly a good player, a starting level guy who’s gonna get better week after week.” (05:37)
    • Dan: “This is Cole Bishop’s job to lose...It is so much his job to lose this year. And so you’re right. Like, there is...he’s probably the player the Bills are expecting and need to step up the most.” (06:54)
    • Jenna asks: “Do you think the safeties are a stronger unit than last year, and how much of that hinges on Cole Bishop?” (07:51)

• Taylor Rapp’s Toughness:

  • Described as “first team all crash test dummy” for his aggressive play style (00:07 & 08:21).
    Dan clarifies: “Focus on the crash test part, not the dummy part.”
    Jenna laughs: “Like, Dan is saying that as a compliment.”

• Trust & Meritocracy in Defensive Backfield:

  • Mike shares philosophy: “They need to trust players, especially on defense. No more so than those two guys at the back end...in a Sean McDermott now Bobby Babbage defense. You better know where you’re going to be.” (09:09)

• Rookies Will Get Opportunity:

  • The coaches are not against starting rookies: “You look at Christian Benford...not only was he a rookie when he started, he was the sixth round pick. It wasn’t like they just gave it to the number one guy.” (09:37)

• Max Hairston as a Possible Breakout:

  • Optimism surrounding his speed and potential as the other outside corner.
  • “I think Harrison—like that speed was something we haven’t seen in Buffalo since Trey...prime Trey.” (30:21)

Defensive Line & Pass Rush

• Roster Rebuild and Versatility:

  • Dan appreciates the change in approach: “I like that they tried to seemingly do new things.” (02:48)

• Rookie & Youth Investment:

  • High draft capital spent this year: “They haven’t had a year like this where they just said, our draft is for these guys.” (15:18)
  • Discussion on signing holdouts, specifically, concern if TJ Sanders misses valuable camp reps (14:34).

• Greg Rousseau & Ed Oliver’s Next Steps:

  • Question whether Rousseau can become a true “double-digit sack guy” and take the next step (19:25).

  • “Have we seen Greg’s [ceiling]? ...I think we’ve seen Ed [Oliver] take over and dominate games every once in a while. It’s the consistency.” (19:22)

  • Candid exchange on expectations:

    • Mike: “Can...I ask a question of you two?...Do you think Ed Oliver is thought of as a higher level player than Greg Russo?” (19:28)
    • Dan: “I think there’s more defensive ends that take over games. I think there are fewer defensive tackles that can take over games.” (20:08)

  • Debate on sack numbers:

    • Dan: “He [Rousseau] needs [at least] nine sacks.” (22:17)
    • Mike: “Last year I said double digits...what did he end up with?” (22:28)
    • Jenna: “It says he had eight sacks in 2024. Eight and two in the postseason.” (22:58)

• Impact of Joey Bosa:

  • Concerns about health but high ceiling if he stays available (24:51).
  • Mike: “It’s the reason why he’s signing a guy with his success in this league is signing a one-year deal...” (24:55)
  • Comparison to the Von Miller/Leonard Floyd signings: “If he can be healthy...he can be good for them.” (25:32)

• Depth & Diversity:

  • Excitement about different player types (e.g., speed rushers like Javon Solomon vs. bigger-bodied Landon Jackson). “It’s like the basketball team...I like the fact that Salman has something different.” (13:46)

Linebackers

• Strength if Healthy:
  • “There’s a reason to be optimistic on the linebackers because Bernard and Milano are healthy...and Dorian Williams as that third linebacker. That’s pretty good.” (05:12)
  • Dorian Williams described as “hair on fire” player, potentially the best athlete on the team. (27:14)
  • Dan: “He hits so hard, plays so violent...I see that in Dorian. I just don’t know if he can be a consistent three down linebacker yet.” (26:43)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Defensive Potential:

  • Mike: “I think maybe more potential than we’ve had...Some young players, some exciting players, some position depth that they haven’t had.” (01:30)

• On Taylor Rapp:

  • Dan: “He’s a crash test dummy. He does first team all crash test dummy.” (00:07, 08:21)
  • Jenna: “Dan is saying that as a compliment.” (00:15, 08:30)

• On Sean McDermott and Rookies:

  • Dan: “Sean was very adamant that...this belief that Sean McDermott doesn’t play rookies — that’s not true...” (06:54)

• Reflecting on Defensive Trends:

  • Dan: “This needs to be a year where...the parts need to be really good too. There need to be guys that make big plays in big moments on the defense.” (11:12)

• Humorous Bit (Greg Rousseau Sack Debate):

  • Mike: “How many sacks this year?” (21:47)
  • Dan: “He needs nine sacks.” (22:17)
  • Jenna: “Wow.” (22:18)

• On Defensive Player “Best Shape of Life” Cliché:

  • Mike: “I want a guy who does come in and we hear best shape of his life.” (28:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------|---------------| | Evaluating offseason defensive changes | 01:30 | | Question marks in starting lineup | 01:47 | | Emphasis on new faces over retreads | 02:48 | | Draft strategy and youth movement | 03:54/15:18 | | Cole Bishop’s importance at safety | 05:37/07:51 | | Taylor Rapp’s playing style | 00:07/08:21 | | Rookies and trust in coaching philosophy | 09:09 | | Rousseau & Ed Oliver expectations | 19:23/22:17 | | Joey Bosa health and potential impact | 24:51/25:32 | | Dorian Williams as an athlete | 27:14 | | Players the hosts are most excited to watch | 30:12 |

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Excitement & Concerns Heading into 2025

• Most Excited To Watch:

  • Dan: “I think it’s Hairston.”
  • Mike: “Yeah, I’m with you.”
  • Jenna: “Mine’s Landon Jackson...he could make such a big impact.” (30:12)

• Biggest Concerns:

  • Health and reliability of Joey Bosa and other new veteran additions.
  • The steep learning curve and performance of defensive rookies, especially early with some veterans suspended.
  • Whether draft investments in the D-line (Sanders, Jackson, Carter) will translate to production.

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Memorable Closing & Community Questions

Jenna wraps by inviting listeners:
“Please comment in who you are most excited to see on the Bills defense. Your thoughts on some of the other players and just what are your — are there any concerns about Joey Bosa and his health? Like what are your thoughts as we head into summer training camp?” (49:55)

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Podcast Personalities & Banter

• Running jokes about Dan predicting Bernard’s breakout, “best shape of his life” clichés, and lighthearted debates on bread storage and twist ties.
• Heartfelt moments, including shoutouts to family, personal stories, and credits to supportive spouses and doctors (see 35:23 and on).
• Buffalo Plus team’s camaraderie and local connections shine throughout.

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In Summary

The Buffalo Plus crew delivers an episode packed with analysis, curiosity, realism, and playful banter as they break down the Bills’ defensive outlook for 2025. They recognize the hope that comes with new talent and a new approach, but stress that “question marks” will only be erased through on-field results. Can the sum — and now, perhaps, the individual parts — finally make Buffalo’s defense elite again?

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For more Bills coverage, subscribe to Buffalo Plus on YouTube or visit the Buffalo Plus LinkTree.

Transcript

[A]

I think it all hinges on him, right. To be better. Taylor Rap's a good football player and he's tough as nails.

[B]

He's a crash test dummy. He does first team all. Crash test dummy.

[A]

And you mean that in a sense.

[B]

Of no regard for his body.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Like he's a. Dan is saying that as a compliment.

[B]

I don't mean that like the focus on smart guy. Yeah, focus on the crash test part, not the dummy part of that.

[A]

Yes. You mean because demar is still back, baby.

[B]

This is the Buffalo plus podcast brought to you by Connors and Ferris.

[C]

All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cotro. Please be sure to like comment, subscribe and share. We got the whole crew back together after vacations and other stuff. So excited. Other stuff. The wedding. Okay, let's talk more about that. We're not going to talk more about it. We're going to talk today about just the confidence level and the Bills defense ahead of this 2025 season. Obviously training camp is right around the corner. I know so many people are looking forward to the Bills being back at fiser hard knocks Josh Allen out there. But we wanted to take some time because the Bills have obviously done a lot of work on that side of the ball heading into this summer. So Mike, I want to start with you. Just your overall confidence level in the Bills defense as we approach the start of kick camp.

[A]

It's not high at the moment because there's too many question marks for it to be good. Now there's a potential, I think maybe more potential than we've had for it to actually be good. Some young players, some exciting players, some position depth that they haven't had.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I'm a little concerned about the six game suspensions. I would love to see those guys be ready to go. But I think there's optimism because of what it could be. But you know, they don't have that many guys on this defense, Dan, that you sit there and go, I know what he is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's at the level that we need him to be because even the good players all could go up a notch.

[B]

Yeah. I am at that point of we're in the middle of the summer and like you see the accounts like posting like look at this guy working out like this guy. Like we are in that like best. Like we're past best shape of your their lives and we have moved into this guy's gonna have a big year, breakout, breakout season.

[C]

Loading.

[B]

Everybody is going to have a big year right now because it's right before training camp and like, we'll get the first few clips of like, trainers and stuff like that. Working with guys, you'd be like, perfect example is the Elijah Moore.

[A]

He has run more routes, running around and around. He's got to be tired. Like, I see all the clips of.

[B]

It and everybody, they're running around cones and they're like, look at this guy. Yeah, like, check out this guy. Separation against Zoe left that cone in the dust. Like, that was unbelievable. So I am there with some of this, you know, being a little bit cautiously optimistic, like you said. But I am excited about this defense and mainly because it's not what it was like. They didn't just run it back and say, sure, let's bring Von back. Sure, let's bring Austin, Austin Johnson back. Sure, let's bring back Dwayne Smoot. Like, I, I like that they tried to seemingly do new things. It doesn't mean they're going to work, but I'm at least liking that they're not just kicking the can down the road again and saying, hey, this year this guy's going to have the, the big year. Like, they didn't just say like, well, a J epanessa is going to be. Have to do this. Like, they've tried to find replacements to guys that I can see upside in, and that has me excited for a defensive line that has been so inconsistent or consistently inconsistent over these last three years.

[C]

I think it's, it is encouraging. And I look at where this roster is now heading into camp and where it was a year ago, and you mentioned some of those guys, the Quentin Jeffersons, the Von Muellers, those are players that are not on another NFL roster right now. And that to me says a lot about just, you know, Jordan Phillips, rasul douglas, like 31 other NFL teams do not have player those players on their roster.

[B]

And the Bills moved on from them.

[C]

And the Bills moved on through from them, which I think was the right decision. Now, I think they address the need obviously through the draft. They use a lot of resources in terms of the defensive line as well as in the secondary. So I think you see with them trying to get the job done and having a more proficient defense in general. But you talked earlier about, like, there's a lot of question marks. There are a lot of question marks. But I do feel confident that Sean McDermott's defense and Bobby Babbage, another season now entering year two, that they can figure things out. But obviously that is hinging upon some of these younger players and what they will turn into, especially this season. But I think they've done a great job of addressing the need. Now is the fun part where we get to see where things will actually hit the pavement.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's very big reasons to be excited about Max Harrison, the skill set that he brings there in the secondary. Right. The best thing that could happen for Max Hairston is that Joey Bosa and Greg Russo are getting some quarterback.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like any other player. So it does play into each other. There's a reason to be optimistic on the linebackers because Bernard and Milano are healthy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Coming into camp, you'll see how it goes. And Dorian Williams is that third linebacker. That's pretty good. Yeah. Knock on.

[C]

Sorry. It was too easy.

[A]

So there, there is reasons to be excited, but then there is the question marks, front to back. You know, with a guy like Cole.

[B]

Bishop, that's the big one.

[A]

Because you need him so badly to step up and be so badly. A good player, a starting level guy who's going to get better week after week. I think about a guy like Terrell Bernard, who we went into that camp going, except for Dan Fates, everybody else wasn't sure.

[B]

You didn't let me cut you off.

[A]

I know. Because you.

[B]

You beat me to it.

[A]

I know. I. I just. In my mind, I always start to make a point and think, how's Dan going to take credit for this? So in this case, I just gave it to him because he was. He got. He's like 1 for 25, so it's good he got.

[C]

He only talks about that one, too.

[B]

That's all he got. That's all you need.

[A]

But how we came into that year going.

[B]

Oh, nobody thought that.

[A]

We thought it was going to be Dodson.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Except for me.

[A]

And then Dan, who had predicted it.

[C]

The year before, saw it in the stars.

[B]

It's pretty nuts.

[A]

But then he comes out there, Right. He comes out in year two after unimpressive year one when he got to play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The one game that dude can play.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Started that way. Maybe that's what we see in Cole Bishop. It doesn't have to be all pro level. That would be nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you want him to be where he's got to be on the field. And he's a plus player in the.

[B]

Secondary more than ever. Even more than last year. Because while I don't. And Sean was very adamant that, you know, this, this belief that Sean McDermott doesn't play rookies like that that's not true. And I appreciate Sean having the snarkiness during one of the press conferences to say you have to put the guys out there, that trust and have earned that playing time. Right. More than last year. This is Cole Bishop's job to lose. If demar Hamlin or Derek Forster start over him, like that's on Cole Bishop. That is not because of something else or his being in the second year. That is 100% on Cole Bishop. It is so much his job to lose this year. And so you're right. Like, there is. I guess I could say he's probably the player the Bills are expecting and need to step up the most heading into this year is Cole Bishop becomes a viable starting, productive player as a safety.

[C]

That actually goes well off of what I was going to ask of. Like, do you think that the looking at the safeties right now heading into this summer, do you think that they are a stronger unit than they were last year? And how much of that does hinge on Cole Bishop's development?

[A]

I think it all hinges on him. Right. To be better. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because Taylor Rapp's a good football player and he's tough as nails and he is a good starting player in the NFL.

[B]

He's a crash test dummy. He does first team all. Crash test dummy.

[A]

Yeah. And you mean that in a sense.

[B]

Of no regard for his body.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Like he's. Dan is saying that as a compliment.

[B]

I don't mean that like the focus, smart guy. Yeah, focus on the crash test part, not the dummy part of that.

[A]

Yes. You mean because demar is still there.

[C]

Baby, talk about ugly pennies and crash test dummies.

[A]

But Demar is still there. And if the need be, demar ends up starting. But they don't, like you said, they don't want that. And I go back to asking Bobby Babich this spring about their expectations for Cole Bishop, and he gave me the answer of, I don't have higher expectations than any player does. That's fine. He does have expectations for him. He needs him to be that. If not, he's not going to start and not going to play. Because they. We've talked about this a lot. They need to trust players, especially on defense. No more so than those two guys at the back end of the defense. 100% in a Sean McDermott now Bobby Babbage defense. You better know where you're going to be. You better know your position value. Now, it helps if you've got two really good corners on the outside and Sharon Johnson in the slot. And I think, you know this. They do believe that that's what the case is. But the idea of playing rookies is hilarious. That he, that he won't do it. When you look at Christian Benford over there, not only was he a rookie when he started, he was the sixth round pick. It wasn't like they just gave it to the number one guy because.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Kyrie Elam was the guy. So earn it. Meritocracy. You play. And I think they believe Max Haron is going to win the job or can. And I think they believe that Cole Bishop is going to be the starter. At least that's going into the sprint into summer camp.

[B]

What if Dorian Strong starts at safety over Cole Bishop?

[A]

You think at safety?

[B]

I don't know. I was just saying, like, what if he finds a, A, a spot to start? They have six round picks starting their rookie years.

[C]

What about. Yeah.

[B]

Or is that in the crazy scale?

[C]

I think that's pretty crazy. That feels pretty unhinged.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, I mean, it's Dan, so.

[A]

Yeah. Wow.

[C]

No, I'm saying we're back, baby.

[A]

Yeah. No, I think, I think anything can happen. I do believe they're gonna hope that Cole Bishop is healthy during camp, which hurt him last year. And then the experience that he did get helps him for this year. But that's a lot to ask and it's a lot to just say, well, it's year two and he's going to be good. Not every player does that. Not every player is Terrell Bernard.

[B]

Well, I think at times we've looked at this defense and we've said the sum is better than the parts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This needs to be a year where like that page kinds of kind of turns and like the parts need to be really good too. Like I. It's this everybody eats philosophy on offense. Like there need to be guys that make big plays in big moments on the defense because they haven't really had that trail. Bernard has the punch out. Like that is what I'm talking about. Whether that's Max Harrison coming up with speed and tracking guys down or taking away number one wide receivers. Yes, it's do your 1 11th, but there needs to be guys that are doing more and that you can trust to, to be great. Like, I know we're not talking about Cole Bishop being a Pro Bowler All Pro, but to make plays, to make tackles in big spots and not get big Boyd and not get run over, that's what we're talking about. Where I'm sitting Here going, man, you look at this defense, and we were just talking about it before we started recording of, like, some of the players that have come through this defense that have been lackluster or whether it's trades made or whether it's draft picks. Mike and.

[A]

Well, yeah, because you talk about that draft, right? When they ended up, forget about Elam. That was a mistake. He didn't work. He's in Dallas now. But you got Bernard and Benford. Okay. The next year, they only took Dorian Williams and Alex Austin. Alex Austin, long gone. Dorian Williams, good football player. They hope he rises up. Last year, you got Cole Bishop, definitely. Questions coming in. Dwayne Carter, questions coming in. Eddie Olafosio as a linebacker, maybe again in another year, staying healthy because he dealt with that. Javon Solomon again, they drafted over him already, or it appears to be. Yep. And then you got Hardy, the Penn State and signed. Yes. So you're saying is these are the guys. And then you look at the free agents they brought in and it becomes.

[B]

Like, Mike brought receipts.

[A]

Well, I'm looking and saying who. Who have they brought in? Because everybody's looking to say Ogun Joby and. And Hoyt and Forest. Right. But, you know, the year before it was Casey 2 Hill and Mike Edwards and Nick Morrow and Austin Johnson. Like, you know, Austin Johnson was in the rotation. Mike Edwards did nothing. Nick morrow wasn't around. Casey 2 Hill, very little couple of plays. Like, they didn't get a lot out of those guys. Now they invested more this year.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And higher picks this year and all that. So you hope so. But I do think it's like, that's why I started with cautiously optimistic, but you gotta. You gotta see how it plays out.

[C]

Do you think. Did you see anything from Javon Solomon? I mean, obviously you talk about drafting over him, but yeah.

[B]

The one thing that I like about him is that I think we've talked about it before, that he's different than the other guys. Like, they have the. The bigger guys. Like your favorite player, Landon Jackson. Yeah, like. Like a bigger guys. Joey Bosa, big guys. And then you kind of have Salman, which I think could be a change of pace. He's a smaller guy. Speed, edge, bend more of that. Von Miller, speed rusher to go along with Greg, who kind of has a little bit of both with speed and some power, but to kind of blend that all together. I like that he's different. I like that. Not every single. It's like the basketball team. Like, you want to have some guys that you can bring in. Off the bench that, that are just three point specialists. The guys are just defenders or just post players. I like the fact that Salomon has something different. At least we've seen small snippets that he's got something different.

[A]

I hope they get this thing worked out with the second round picks because TJ Sanders is one of 30 second round picks.

[B]

There's only two that are signed that aren't signed.

[A]

And you know these teams, it's not even that much money. The difference I was reading about the way they do the second round picks and it's guaranteed to a point. And then that last year and it had been like 60% and then who was it Houston and was it Cleveland? I'm trying to think of the other team that gave the guaranteed pick guaranteed money. And so now all these guys are there and it may not seem like much and maybe it gets settled leading into camp, but I don't want to see a guy like Sanders missing time at camp.

[B]

No.

[A]

Because they, they'll want him to play. And you mentioned Landon Jackson like that. I'm excited to see. I'm going to see how they look against everybody and Dion Walker will see how he's doing physically to see whether he can play. But it is a lot of investments. Like they haven't had a year like this where they just said, our draft is for these guys. And they brought them all in.

[B]

And Josh spent the weekend in Lake Tahoe golfing at the American Century.

[C]

It looks so beautiful.

[A]

I want.

[C]

I need to go there.

[B]

Yeah, it looks awesome. He was hitting golf balls, throwing footballs to people on boats.

[A]

Buffalo. Plus next year, Tahoe. Tahoe.

[C]

I would love to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Dan, you won't. You won't be able to go on your vacation, though.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

Such a good setup.

[B]

Touche, Jenna. But Josh was asked on the broadcast kind of about what's new this year, what's changed.

[A]

And he.

[B]

The one thing he didn't talk a lot about, the offense. He said we got a lot younger on the defense. And he said off of that he goes with that comes inexperience like Josh is aware of. Hey, there's new pieces that are unknown. And that's a question mark. And for a long time, like I said, that's why Mike and I are both seemingly cautiously optimistic, because it's not just the same song and dance. But with that becomes, these guys haven't done it and they haven't done it in Buffalo and they haven't done it with these guys. So I think that there's that excitement, but also the understanding of especially training camp. Like, I think that's why this year more than ever, Sean really put the emphasis on minicamp of, like, we need to get everything ironed out now so that we're not learning this stuff in camp. We're hitting the ground running in the. Into the preseason.

[C]

That is one of the things that I think I was kind of naive to earlier on in my career that I thought like, oh, well, training camp is the start of everything. And then now, after following the team for so long, I'm like, no, no. Like, training camp is it obviously a point in time to get things buttoned up, but, like, you should be able to immediately kind of hit the ground running. And I think that's why, like, you mentioned minicamp being so important, but especially with having so many younger guys on these. This roster, like, that, to me is like, where you can really have the. The hard coaching, the long days, but the learning opportunities that come along with it. But you have to know enough to learn enough, if that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, and, and listen, we can spin it any way you want, but Hoyton, Ogun, Joby, if they were both playing, that's what you would want from day one, playing. And I know people say, oh, you. You get him in week six, then the young players could get their feet wet more and play now. Look, I guess it could turn into a positive if the young guys. Let's.

[B]

Let's just say, how's the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[A]

Well, it doesn't have to be.

[C]

I don't think it has to be that bad.

[B]

Well, you're trying to. You're trying to find the silver lining.

[A]

Yeah. I'm saying, yes, I can see glass.

[B]

Full would probably be a better analogy.

[A]

Than the Lincoln, Lincoln getting shot in the head. Really? That's where you go. I'm looking at it saying, if these players get more snaps early, does it help them? You would hope so. But at the same time, I really wanted to see these guys playing from the get go, week number one. Now get to week six, have the Bills be five and one, and everybody's pretty happy, then I guess you're okay. But these, these. You brought these two players in who have a lot of NFL experience.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I really think Hoyt appears to be a guy who's done it in the NFL. Maybe not at a high, high level, but he's had production in the NFL that I think he's a. He's a guy that could change things a little. Bit for them in the past. Rush and I want to see him, but we're going to have to wait.

[B]

Credit to us for not saying here's a guy. Here's a guy. Credit to us.

[C]

What do you need to see from Greg Russo and Ed Oliver, if anything?

[B]

I don't need to see much from Ed. I think we know what his ceiling is. It's the thought of have we seen Greg's. Is where like I think we've seen Ed take over and dominate games every once in a while. Like, I think he's had, you know, Detroit game. Yeah. Like some of those times where you're like, that's, that's it. It's the consistency. And with Greg, it's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

Is he going to be a ten set guy?

[A]

Can. Can I ask a question of you too?

[C]

Mm.

[A]

You do these polls around the league. Like we can talk about the one Jeremy Fowler. Fowler just did. We're asking everybody around and I'm curious as to how players are ranked. They're different positions. They're both D linemen. Different positions. Do you think Ed Oliver is thought of as a higher level player than Greg Russo?

[C]

Hmm. In terms of like. Yes, probably.

[A]

Actually, I don't think so.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Well, you think wrong.

[C]

You are also team Greg. You are. Yeah. You were president and CEO of the fan club.

[B]

Yeah. I think there are more defensive ends that take over games. I think there are fewer defensive tackles that can take over games. Like Edgar.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That was a well supported argument.

[B]

That was. That was put together.

[A]

I didn't stumble like, like he can. I. I just.

[B]

Again, that's what I'm saying. Have we seen Greg ceiling.

[A]

I think we've seen Ed sailing.

[B]

I. Isn't that what I. Yeah, but I.

[A]

Don'T think his ceiling. I don't think his ceiling is high enough for the ninth pick in the draft. I think this is. He's a good football player.

[B]

But then you're basing it on the where he was picked.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think that does factor in.

[A]

I.

[B]

And I'm going to a first round edge. Russer, Rusher.

[C]

You're so close.

[B]

So close.

[A]

He's 25.

[B]

He's young. Oh, forgot. Oh my gosh. We haven't heard just pull that. He's young.

[A]

I didn't say he was young. I say he's 25. They just paid him. They just paid him and they. And I think his. I think his ceiling is higher.

[B]

You know how many times we make fun of the people and even McDermott Bean when we're like, they're young. They're young. And Catalana just said, here's the difference.

[A]

They're saying young, making excuses for poor play. I'm saying they're young because I think he's got another gear to go. I really do. I think he has another gear. Physically, I like the way he plays. I think he's good against the run.

[C]

Fifth year, Pop, honestly, we know you.

[B]

Like the way he plays. You made it very clear.

[A]

And I. I hear you clear as.

[B]

I have made my D. Bernard prediction. We have.

[C]

How many sacks this year?

[A]

Oh, for. For Rousseau?

[B]

Yes. I have an over under that he has to hit.

[A]

You're telling. You're asking me what it would be.

[B]

I don't know what your Mayberry head thinks, but I'm telling you, I have a number that he has to hit to. To sit there and say worth the money and has taken the next step.

[A]

Eleven.

[B]

That's insane. Eight and a half.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He needs nine sacks.

[C]

Yeah. Wow.

[B]

I said ten. He was young. He was young.

[A]

Last year I said 10. Last year I said double digits. So it had to been to 10. What do you end up with?

[B]

Six. You had four in the first game.

[A]

Had three in the first game.

[B]

Jenna.

[C]

I'm. I'm looking it up.

[B]

I think he had four.

[C]

I don't know, Jim.

[A]

I just think his ceiling is high. I still think his ceiling's high. They obviously do too. They just paid him, so.

[B]

Need a better fact checking producer here. There's smoke coming out of Jenna's head.

[C]

It says he had eight sacks in 20. 24. 8 and 2 and 2 in the postseason.

[A]

And how many do you have in the first game?

[C]

In the first game. Hold on. I got. I'm not doing.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

This is horrendous. Podcasting game log. Greg Russo.

[A]

I know.

[C]

God, I'm not sweating.

[A]

See?

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Mary, Jenna, slow on the computer.

[B]

I think it's three sacks.

[C]

Where?

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

It's there, but it's. This is. Oh, three. I was okay. I was. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, so. So it was three and eight. So I was right on both counts. Not four and six and two in the playoffs.

[C]

I'm not good enough. Pressure.

[A]

I. I'm hopeful that Joey Bosa can be an effective player on the other side and eventually maybe Michael Hoyt and Landon Jackson like all these guys. That's where I'm encouraged about the pass rush. Joey Bose has obviously done it. If he's healthy, I think he can be good for them. Hoyt has Done it to an extent. He got passed up in LA because they're pretty good at drafting guys. Like they got Jared Verse. Like they, they did well and then they moved on from him and then we'll see what Landon Jackson has. Who gives that other skill set, like you said. Believe me, I'm not sitting here pretending that Greg Russo is one of these total game wreckers that doesn't need anybody around him. But I do think it would be helpful if he had somebody on the other side that they actually had to worry about.

[B]

Imagine if he does. We have to eat these words.

[C]

We're not going to remember this. That's fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, you'd mentioned Bosa. Do you have any concern as we enter camp? Just about. Okay, well, what is healthy? What is your.

[A]

It's to be healthy.

[C]

No, I was going to say, like, what is your level of concern? Concern.

[A]

It's high. It's the reason why he's signing a guy with his success in this league is signing a one year deal at this point in his career because people are concerned that he can stay on the field. I think, I think his ability. Maybe they'll get fortunate in this. Right? I mean when they, when they signed Von and Leonard started out like that guy and Leonard Floyd.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And that's when they had a pass rush and then vine got hurt and it. And then it was never the same. But Vaughn started and Von was older. I mean, what was Vaughn when they signed him? 34. 34.

[C]

I think he was. Yeah. Either.

[A]

33. Right. But he started out great and then we had to, you know, Detroit. But I do think, I do think it. Listen, if the guy can stay, I don't buy this whole idea of putting him in bubble wrap and bring him out for the playoffs. That's not the way it works. He's going to play and to help them. Doesn't mean you got to give him 60 snaps a game. But you do need to get him out there. I think if he can be healthy and stay that way. He's had a lot of weird injuries. Like it's, you know, it's been soft.

[B]

Tish.

[A]

Yeah. So those are the things. And he started out with that, so that added to the concern. But he's a.

[B]

Who's been more injured on soft tissue the last three years? Joey Bosa or Balon Spector?

[C]

Oh, man.

[B]

Just want to get a Balance Spectre reference into this pod.

[C]

Yeah, really enunciating there.

[B]

Yeah. Balance.

[C]

Specter, do you want to talk about linebacker? We mentioned it a Little bit earlier.

[A]

But listen, like I said, they're both healthy. Yeah, that's a good pair of linebackers and that's a good backup linebacker.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you're saying to yourself, okay, now it would be nice and we'll see what for some depth in the middle.

[B]

I would love to have Dorian Williams be the guy that comes off on. Comes on the field on whether it's first down to stop the run or to get after the quarterback. Because he's also a first team crash test dummy as well. Like he hits so hard, play so violent. Like the AJ when AJ Klein was really. When he came back and had that playoff game, like he just flew around the field. I see that in Dorian. I just don't know if he can be a consistent three down linebacker yet.

[A]

I think there's a case to be made. Is he maybe if testing would show differently. See the best athlete on the team.

[B]

He's up there.

[C]

He's got to be. Yeah. It's like, I'm curious, like Hairston, though, like what kind of athlete?

[A]

Different.

[C]

Different type, obviously.

[A]

Yes, but yes. Where we just have those physical traits.

[B]

Well, the guy they always talked about that was the most athletic on the team was Neil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They said that he was like the most athletic freak on the team. It just wasn't always.

[A]

The athleticism is like. Josh is an incredible athlete.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

In the. Josh Allenest of ways. Right. The things he can do. But in terms of just running physicality. And that's why I just love those kind of players. Going after the quarterback.

[B]

Dorian is one of those guys that plays with his hair on fire.

[A]

Okay. By the way, you mentioned it. You mentioned it.

[C]

I love that so much.

[A]

Give me a guy. Here's a guy.

[C]

Here's a guy.

[A]

I want a guy who does come in and we hear best shape of his life.

[B]

Reed Ferguson.

[C]

Best shape of his life.

[B]

Friend of the pot, Best shape of his life.

[A]

Well, on defense can be anybody. But I have.

[B]

I know who you're going to say.

[A]

No, you don't.

[B]

Yes, I do.

[A]

No, you don't.

[C]

I mean, I could see it being James Cook just because of what's.

[B]

No, it's on offense.

[A]

Nope.

[C]

Oh, defensive guy. Best shape of his life.

[B]

Milano.

[A]

No, I think he's always in good shape, isn't he? It's just about being healthy.

[C]

Yeah. Hold please.

[B]

I thought you were gonna say dk.

[C]

No, because that's.

[B]

We're gonna hear that a lot at training camp first.

[C]

Yeah, actually, I think we will as.

[A]

Well go on defense here.

[C]

Okay. What about Demar? No.

[A]

Dwayne Carter.

[B]

I honestly thought I could see that.

[C]

Really? Actually, no, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I don't know, Jim. I don't agree. I don't agree.

[A]

We're gonna ask Bobby. One of the first times. Hey, how's Dwayne Carter? Look, he's just going to be itching to say it. I'm just saying him could be. I don't think Sean. I don't hear Sean say that.

[B]

No.

[C]

No.

[A]

Maybe there's a better chance that Brandon Beam would say it than Sean. I don't hear Sean say Sean.

[B]

Sean's big thing. If he calls you a professional.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is when you know you have climbed up the depth chart for. For Sean. That was the big Justin Shorter.

[C]

And if you are a notch above that, you're a true professional.

[B]

Well done. True professional.

[A]

Well done. Well done.

[C]

It's true.

[A]

Is Dan a true professional?

[C]

He's working his way back there. No, you're a true professional. You're a true. You are a true professional.

[B]

You're actually.

[A]

Because I'm old. Yeah.

[C]

No, but you're a Hall of Famer.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I should have worn my jacket.

[C]

Who are you most excited on the defense to watch this season?

[B]

I think it's. I think it's Hairston.

[A]

Yeah. I'm with you.

[B]

I think just seeing what that speed.

[C]

It's not Greg Rousseau for you.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

Well, I know how good Rousseau is.

[B]

That's true. Yeah. I just think Harrison like that speed was something we haven't seen in. In Buffalo since Trey. Like prime. Trey. Like that? Kind of.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Mine's Landon Jackson.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You are.

[C]

I just. I.

[B]

You are the fan. You are the president and CEO of the Landon Jackson fan club.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I think he's.

[C]

I just think that he could make such a big impact. They've been wanting to have a guy that could be a disruptor, and I think he can bring that if things pan out in the way the Bills expect. But. Yeah. Anything else?

[B]

Good talk. Good pod.

[C]

Had some funny bits.

[A]

Yeah, we did. We want to mention the Josh ratings.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

The latest Jeremy Fowler.

[B]

Was there an anonymous NFL executive that called him overrated?

[A]

No, but in Jeremy Fowler's piece, kind of upsetting this, they used Bean's sound bite about there's idiots everywhere, and they quoted our friend and I'll say friend of the pod. Dom Tibbets. They used a quote tweet from Dom Tibbets.

[C]

Oh, we love that.

[B]

What about the quote from the Buffalo? Plus Podcast when Bean held up the. The. The mug.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That could have been a good one.

[A]

That would have been a good one. But yeah, when he said there's idiots everywhere.

[B]

No, it was Dom Trimble.

[A]

Yes. He got called by the wrong name. It was, you know, in this one, it ended up being, you know, Mahomes was one, Josh was two, Burrow was three, Lamar was four. But in there is the rankings, which made me laugh, is one executive scout, whoever it was, had Lamar six. You can't put Lamar six. You can't put Josh Allen six. You can't put Mahomes six, and you can't put Burrow six. They're the top four. Mix them up any way you possibly can.

[B]

Pull names out of a hat and that's fine. That is. So that is Lamar, like three years ago.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You could do that after the first MVP season and say, well, you know, he still doesn't throw the ball extremely well, but now that is. That's. There's idiots everywhere. That's the epitome of there's. It's like calling Josh Allen overrated.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

If you have Lamar 6, Jaden Daniels 5th.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You okay with that?

[A]

Listen, I think he's. I would tell you this. I think he is a very talented player. I think he carried that team last year.

[B]

Who's more talented? Greg.

[C]

Who'S younger?

[A]

I think he's very talented, and I think he played in a way that I could see him maintaining this. I think he looked. He never looked rattled.

[B]

No.

[A]

You guys, give me a heart. I had the issue with the C.J. stroud. You did? Because C.J. stroud also talked about himself as one of the top five quarterbacks in the league. And he's a good player. Took a bit of a step back last year. Didn't handle. Because that Washington roster is not great. No, it's okay. It's not great. We'll see where Daniels is this year, but they should be pretty happy with him because. Yeah, that organization was bad. He came in and played really well for them.

[C]

They were one of the worst organizations.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Franchises.

[A]

Yeah. And then they had, I mean, Justin Herbert. This fascination with Justin Herbert. He's always going to get.

[B]

You were a Justin Herbert. You were Justin. Hang on, let me. Let me say this right. C.J. stroud became your new Justin Herbert. Like you have always been, like, what have they done?

[A]

Well, in Herbert's case, CJ Stroud, it was only because it was one year, and then it was all of a sudden, like, top five in the league. It was really good. But he's not top five as a quarterback. He's top 10 maybe towards the end. And there's a big difference between the first five and the next five. Just in terms of what we see. I think Daniels is better with Herbert. It's because we have seen him in big leverage moments. Not good. So now he's past the point where it's like a year. Yes. He throws a nice ball and he gets a lot of yards. So does Dak Prescott. So does Kirk Cousins like those guys? I'm not comparing them as actual players. I just mean sometimes it's like the guy they all love and it was Trevor Lawrence before that.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Who really hadn't done anything. Yep.

[C]

So that is true. That's. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So let's see. But Josh is. I mean, two, one, three really doesn't matter.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But he's. We know how good he is. And the other guys are all great, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Those top four.

[C]

No, makes sense. All right, let's go into credit. To me.

[B]

I've got a handful. Do I go first or do I go last? Because I. I was on vacation and was, like writing them down, like.

[A]

Well, you are excited about it.

[C]

Yeah. Why don't you go.

[A]

Yeah, go right.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I shouldn't go last, though. You'll go last.

[A]

What? I'll go last. Mine's. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I have. I told them I had three. One is an easy one is a layup that I have to and want to do. One is very funny, and then one's very heartfelt. The easy one.

[A]

I need some hydration. This is going to take a while.

[C]

I already. I already checked out.

[B]

Yeah. The first one is credit to my wife. This is our eight year anniversary.

[C]

That is crazy. It's been eight years.

[A]

God bless you, Renee.

[B]

Yeah. And honestly, like, the serious moment out of this is like, we are so lucky we get to do all this stuff. And it's funny because my wife won't see this. She won't watch this, but she'll get it sent to her by her friends.

[A]

She was asking Jenny if she watches the pod at the wedding. Yeah.

[B]

And Jenny's like, no. Everybody's like, me neither.

[C]

Partly because Zach doesn't watch either.

[A]

They get to hear us all the time. All the time.

[B]

And partly of that is that, you know, with our schedules, it's difficult. Like, Renee is by far the rock of the household.

[A]

Yeah. In my case, Jenny just doesn't get care. Yeah, she doesn't care. She doesn't really care what I say. About anything.

[B]

What's your anniversary?

[A]

We don't really have one. Just.

[B]

You're just up there. You're just up there with years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. Yeah, my wife is like, Renee is the one that. With all of our schedules and craziness and having three kids under five, like, she is the one that is the rock of the household. So credit to Renee for all that she does. Married to my best friend. Very lucky to do all that. Second one. Credit to the people that understand. You don't put the twist tie back on the bread loaf.

[C]

What? I put the twist tie back on.

[B]

You're insane.

[A]

You do the wrap wrap tie and.

[B]

Then tuck it underneath and you put the bread back.

[C]

The twist tie.

[B]

That twist tie is the first thing that gets thrown away.

[A]

You're talking about that takes effort to throw it away. That's like that little plastic thing. I don't like that little plastic thing.

[B]

Both things suck.

[A]

You know the ones that it's. It's like it's got just a little.

[C]

Have used bread before. Sorry.

[B]

I've been around a loaf of bread.

[C]

Are you.

[A]

A man's waiting mansplaining bread. I don't like that thing. I think that thing so.

[B]

But it's the fig, Jenna. It's the bread. It's the.

[C]

It shuts it.

[A]

But you just throw the twist tie away.

[B]

Yeah. It never goes.

[A]

Do you now tie it?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, you just wrap it and wrap.

[B]

Wrap it. And then you. When you put the bread. You set the bread back on it. It's. It's crazy to me if you think the twist tie keeps the bread fresh.

[C]

I just. I want it closed.

[B]

I want to tie your shoes after you take them off. That's.

[A]

No, I'm not eating my shoes. I'm not eating my shoes.

[B]

I'm going.

[A]

You don't need to keep them fresh.

[B]

No. I tweeted this on vacation and I had people having my back.

[A]

If you wanted your shoes to stay a certain way, people put the sho.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Things said that that would be the equivalent of tying.

[B]

But the twist tie does not keep the bread fresh.

[A]

Oh, really? Have you done the scientific experiment on this?

[B]

I just.

[C]

Do your own research, Dan.

[B]

It's just crazy to me. So that is.

[C]

Next level, lazy. It's efficiency, which usually shares a wall with being lazy.

[B]

It's efficient.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I do think the. The ends of the bread keep it fresh. If you've ever used the end of a bread loaf, like the. The butt end of it. Too early. The rest of your bread is stale.

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

I Do believe that I have done the research. I have done my own research on that. So that was the silly one. I tweeted that on vacation that got some.

[C]

I somehow missed that one but I'm glad I did.

[B]

Yeah. And finally the more serious one is credit to a guy that nobody really knows but I think he deserves a ton of credit for this. Credit to Dr. David. Sure. This upcoming Monday well wishes. It is hopefully going to be our daughter Shane's last trip to New York City. Shane was born with a club foot which means that her left foot was facing her face when she was born. We had done 30 plus casts. We have done bracing every single night. She wears a brace to bed. She's been phenomenal with it. Normally you only go till 4 years old. Dr. Scher is in New York City strong Golisano Children's hospital was great. We had to go find a specialist. We were driving to New York City twice a week at times because she was in cast and slipping out of them. It's been a massive part of our lives not being able to know if your daughter like you're fearing that she won't walk. So I don't think he watches the pod. I will send him this clip because hopefully and I mean this is bittersweet this is the last time we have to see him. Shane is now going to turn five. We're hoping that this is the last time she has to wear her boots and bars to bed. She does get to see her cousins and says like why don't they have to wear this to bed? So she's walking, running all these things people now as she's gotten older have no idea that she was born with a club foot but it's been a massive part of our lives and to see it now hopefully come to the finish line is a surreal feeling. When we met Dr. Schur it was one of those moments where to this day we tell him like he saved our lives like he gave us our life back to have knowing that our daughter was going to be in the good hands. So credit to Dr. David Sher @ the hospital for special surgeries in New York City. We are seeing him on Monday. Fingers crossed we're going to do an X ray to see how her bones are in her foot and I don't want this to be bad juju. I asked Renee if this was a good one to do but he is the most incredible world, you know world renowned doctor for club feet and he has been a blessing to my family to no end.

[A]

That's Fantastic. And congrats to the doctor. Could you just add in there credit to Shane?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Credit to Shane, too, because there's only been three or four nights that she has been like, I don't want to wear my boots and bars. We have to stretch her foot every night pretty much. It's. It's been a lot. It's been way easier since she turned 2 and we got out of cast and stuff like that. But you guys were a part of it, of saying, hey, guys, we have to drive to New York City in the morning. And everybody's like, wow, that's so crazy that you did that.

[C]

You would go a lot.

[B]

Shane wasn't driving. She was just asleep in the backseat.

[A]

Oh, that's right. She didn't have anything to do with. Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Shane's been a trooper and through all of this. But again, credit to Dr. Schur. He has been. We got shirts. Every time we go there, Shane has shirts. It says it's a sure thing because it's spelled S C H E R. So. But yeah, that's. That's the big one. That's one. So we see him on Monday, hopefully getting the full clearance that there's no regression and that Shane's foot looks fine. But that's a big one.

[C]

Oh, that's amazing. What a journey, man.

[B]

Yeah, I remember, like, when she was born. We had no idea she was born with a club foot.

[C]

Can you tell them what you told Renee?

[B]

Yeah, it was a C section. So, like, I was the first one that got to see our daughter. Firstborn child. We're so excited. And I remember, like, looking at her and not knowing what a baby looks like fresh out of the oven, and.

[C]

I don't love that.

[B]

Okay, Fresh out of the womb. Is that better?

[C]

A newborn, I would say, just gone there.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

And I remember telling the nurses and doctors that were over there, and I was like, what's up with her foot? Maybe every kid's born with their feet facing this way. And the doctor looked at me and was like, that's. She has a club foot. I was like, what's that mean? And they're like, oh, it's. You know, her foot's sideways. Okay. So I had to go back to my wife, who's still on the table in the operating room, be like, she's healthy. She's beautiful. All these things are great. Her foot. Her left foot makes a right hand turn. And, like, terrifying. It's just terrifying. You don't know what. You don't know. So that was one of the things we thought it'd be like, oh, it's a simple surgery. It's not. It's been a five year process to get Shane's foot to where it is today. The funniest story I always remember telling is Troy Aikman was born with a club foot. And seeing him the night before the. The night of the Demar Hamlin game.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And always wanting to get to talk to Troy.

[A]

Oh, you tracked him down on the field.

[B]

I tracked him down on the field pregame because they would walk around and.

[A]

Who didn't know that Troy had Joe Buck?

[B]

So I caught Joe Buck's eyes first and I go, hey, I just really wanted to talk to Troy. He was born with a club foot. My daughter is. And you know, one of the first things the doctors tell you is like, hey, by the way, Michelle Kwan, Mia Hamm, Troy Aikman, they all had club feet. They're all world, you know, world class athletes. Like, it'll be fine. And I remember Joe Buck going like, Troy doesn't have a club foot. I was like, pretty sure he's got a foundation. I don't know how long you've been partners with him, but like, he's definitely his club foot. Troy, of course, came over and was like, that's incredible. John Rahm was born with a club foot. So a lot of those guys, like, we root for hard in my family. So I know this is a long credit to me and I apologize, but it was, you know, back then, they pretty much broke your foot a ton of times. They would just break it and reset it, break it and reset it. This method came along, the Dr. Sher and Ponseti method. You pretty much slowly bend the foot back and that's where we are at today. So sorry for the long rant, but it's very exciting. Pretty cool moment, so positive vibes.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[C]

Yeah. Happy for you guys. Wow. All right. Hard to follow that up.

[A]

Yeah. All right.

[B]

So Jenny, you're wedding?

[C]

Yeah. No, actually, my credit to me is I followed through.

[A]

You did.

[C]

So Mike and I went golfing on Friday and we go golfing a lot of times before work because we have the mornings free. And we decided to go and Dan was obviously on vacation, so we had two extra spots at our tea time and these two brothers signed up, Matt and Adam. And they worked at. They work at Phillips European restaurant in Rochester. And so they were telling us about the menu and all that stuff. And I'm like, I want to go.

[A]

Jenna was very.

[C]

I was Like, I. I love chicken French. And they said they had the best chicken French in Rochester. I'm like, all right. And so I actually followed through. And on Saturday night, yeah, Zach, myself, the father in law, Jeff, came along as well. We checked out Philip's European. It was phenomenal food. Honestly, the best chicken French I've had. And the service, everyone, Matt and Adam were both working. It was wonderful.

[B]

That's cool.

[C]

So I actually followed through. Turns out it's worth it. Imagine that.

[B]

So you got married, you followed through with Zach, and now also.

[C]

I think I did something with my swing.

[B]

You followed?

[C]

I don't know. I. I was hammering the ball Sunday. Yeah.

[A]

So I'm sitting home Saturday. This is hours after we had played golf with these guys. Jenny and I are watching tv, and all of a sudden my phone's like, oh, it's the menu from the restaurant. She was there. She's ready to go, ready to order. And Bill's fan.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Packers fan.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Between the brothers.

[C]

Okay. Also the desserts. I need to mention the desserts.

[B]

So that's where Renee's family is big on your Phillips for their desserts.

[C]

Really?

[B]

They go there just for the desserts. I've been there several times if haven't eaten, like, dinner, it's really good. But we've gone for desserts.

[A]

If you're coming to camp, shoot. It's. What's it going to take you for, 10 minutes? Yeah, it's in Henrietta. It's right off the highway. Yeah, yeah. Really good.

[C]

Tasty.

[A]

Good spot. Well, mine's very different. Mine was football related because people will come up and ask me about certain things. And I think to myself, I go, I have a story about that. I got a story about this. I got a lot of stories. And I was thinking about the Bills quarterbacks through the years, and these guys were asking me something about a player. And it could have been, you know, Drew Bledsoe or jp yes. Oh, my gosh, yes.

[C]

Hospitality.

[A]

And then Doug Flutie and Rob Johnson and whatever. And I find myself somebody asking me, and I'm like, well, that actually was a pretty good story. And then I'll start telling the story. And they had no idea. Or it's something very individual with me. And I was thinking, like, it's almost like a bit of like a CN Say, do you remember what that toy is? Where you just put it to the thing and then pull it. And I got the story in there. But I was thinking about it at one point, I go, like, if somebody asked me something about this player. And I'm like, it was something we did.

[B]

Doug Flutie, 95. Mike's like, well, you need to write a book.

[A]

I could write a book.

[C]

How many times have we told you?

[A]

I'll tell you a quick Doug Flutie, Rob Johnson story together. First of all, I emceed an event that summer before the season. Both of them were guests at the event. It was in Rochester. They had not met each other before. I did a live shot for the TV station with both of those guys. And while we were waiting, they were talking to each other about the team and everything. They didn't know anything. If you knew anything, you knew. After a while, one went after the other.

[B]

No bueno.

[A]

And Rob was not happy with Doug Flutie. Made some comments in Sports Illustrated. That week we had a preseason game, and I thought, oh, are these two gonna fight in the. Leaving. In the. In the airplane. And as I'm pulling up, pickup truck is driving by, and it's Fluty and Johnson in the truck together, going to get something to eat. Oh, kind of wild. But they were not buds, but they were friends. But anyhow, I just have. It's just locked up in here, stories about different players, and Jenny has to.

[B]

Hear them all the time.

[A]

Sometimes it's usually when we're out somewhere, and then somebody says, oh, I remember this guy. And I was like, oh, yeah. Alex Van Pelt bought me dinner.

[B]

That's at Drew St. Elmos.

[A]

Drew Bledsoe's father called me out. Like, we had a lot of stuff. Other stuff. It'll be in the book.

[C]

It should. You should write a book. True Professional Broadcast Broadcasting hall of Fame, New York States.

[B]

Can we write the. What's not okay?

[C]

Damn it.

[B]

I wasn't gonna say forward, I'll tell you that. I knew it wasn't a eulogy.

[A]

That goes in the front of the book, Daniel.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You can eulogize somebody that's alive.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yes, you can.

[A]

No, I don't think that's. No.

[B]

Look up what a eulogy is. It is to remember the person.

[A]

Yeah. When they're dead.

[B]

Eulogy. It doesn't have to be at funerals.

[A]

Yeah, you can.

[C]

Yes, it is possible to. And deliver a eulogy or a living eulogy to someone who is in al.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, when they're ready.

[C]

But traditionally, eulogies are delivered at funerals.

[B]

If you say, I'm traditional, I'm untraditional.

[A]

You'Re on your way out.

[C]

I would say usually you're you're living.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

I took a public speaking class. You had to eulogize somebody in that was alive.

[A]

Who told you that?

[B]

It was in college. Yeah. Fredonia State, baby.

[C]

Particularly if they are retired or on their way out.

[A]

On their way out.

[B]

Perfect.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, eulogize you at your retirement.

[A]

You are so lucky you got through your wedding.

[B]

Could have.

[A]

You could have eulogized her.

[C]

Could you imagine?

[B]

Was a great person.

[C]

Okay, we should wrap up here. So there's that. Please comment in who you are most excited to see on the Bills defense. Your thoughts on some of the other players and just what are your. Are there any concerns about Joey Bosa and his health? Like, what are your thoughts as we head into summer training camp? Around the corner, we could have had.

[B]

One other credit to me, Ben, that guy that was in Rochester that saw the. The Mountain line and went, rawr.

[C]

Oh, Curtis Jones.

[B]

Curtis Jones is unbelievable.

[A]

In case you missed it, here's a little Curtis Jones.

[D]

I'm like, what's going on? I ain't know what was going on. You know, I was like, little. Little nervous. Next thing I know, I just kept walking. I see mad people just. I see after. I see the people run, I just see some big. Just walking, just right over here, right by the boy. It went right over there. I swear. I promise it went right over there.

[B]

They just.

[D]

They said, I just. I just kept walking. I seen it. Seen me see it. So in my head I'm like, no, I gotta go, man. I'm out. I ain't about to play with nobody. I ain't about to. They probably done seen it right now. So I don't know what's going on.

[A]

But you notice what he did? What did Curtis do? He pointed.

[B]

It was right over there.

[A]

He could be a member there.

[C]

It's over there.

[A]

Of Buffalo plus.

[C]

Seriously.

[B]

And I just saw some big thing over there.

[C]

Could you imagine seeing a mountain lion, though?

[B]

Also don't know if Curtis saw one, but it was a great interview, great story. It was an unbelievable. Roger hall of fame, Internet hall of Fame.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Rochester in the news.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

For Mike Catalana and Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. We truly, truly appreciate it. If you see us out at training camp, give us a wave. Say hi. We'd love to say hi.

[A]

We're gonna have a lot of content from camp videos every day of practice. Yeah, we'll be out there.

[C]

It's gonna be fun. All right. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Buffalo plus podcast presented by Connors and Ferris.

[B]

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