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Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
The [current] STATE of the BILLS DEFENSE
01:03:52
Mike, Jenna and Dan discuss the state of the Bills defense on the latest episode of the Buffalo Plus Podcast.
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- [00:00]
A
In the time it takes you to actually board a flight from Group 8.
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B
Now boarding Premier Altitude Elite Club members.
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A
You could have bought a Hyundai on Amazon. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Limited availability Pick up through participating Hyundai.
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C
Dealer and select markets. The investment in TJ Sanders, we'll get to. And Dwayne Walker. Like, I think that they are Dwayne Carter.
- [00:22]
A
No, you mean Dion Walker.
- [00:24]
C
Dion Walker. Sorry. Where do you think Dwayne Walker fits in? Like some of those.
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B
Walker what?
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C
Dwayne Walker.
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B
Dion. Oh, my God.
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C
This is the Buffalo plus podcast, brought to you by Connors and Ferris.
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B
All right, welcome back to the Buffalo plus podcast, presented by Connors and Ferris. Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to comment, subscribe and share this podcast. We're breaking down the defensive side, side of the ball. The draft is over. The bulk of free agency is over. With where the Bills are at now. We know they're in the off season, the OTAs, that type of stuff coming up. We want to dive into this roster and just kind of see what the Bills have been up to and what we think of where they're at. And also a little bit later, we'll do. Credit to me as well. So a full podcast. But, Mike, I just want to start with you with just your overall thoughts about this defense.
- [01:27]
A
It's an overhaul. Yeah, it really is. I, you know, I was looking at a lot of the guys who were let go or have appeared to be let go. They're not bringing back from last year and what they did in the draft, what they did in free agency. And it is a, it's going to be a different defense in many ways.
- [01:43]
C
Yeah.
- [01:43]
A
And drafting a corner high, all those things that go on. And it needed to be done. Right. This defense needed that. So I don't think there's any question that's the way they've done it. I will say this again. These guys have gotten tired of hearing me say it in the draft. You address needs. Doesn't necessarily mean you fill them. Yes, that is the hope. Right. Both in free agency and in the draft. But they certainly addressed needs in this draft by going so heavy with the defense.
- [02:13]
C
Yeah. And I look at it and I go, I know there's. There is this sense of overhaul and there seems to be talk of them playing more. Man. Okay. I just don't know if we'll exactly how much that comes into effect. I don't think that Sean McDermott at this point in his career, which we have applauded him for being able to adapt, I don't think he's going to change his spots and all of a sudden be this team that plays so much. Man, nobody played more zone in the league last year than the Bills. I think they're going to work off of that in the coaching additions that they've brought in of the defensive backs coach from New England and the coach from Jacksonville that are like more specialized in man coverage. I think that's just better knowledge to have when you need it. I don't think that's going to change, in my opinion, their philosophy as to who I think they're going to be, especially in the secondary.
- [03:06]
B
I think as an NFL team, you have to evolve though, and I think this is them evolving and this is them. And you're right, like I expect it to be a lot of zone, but I also do think that the man component is something that the Bills have made some tweaks that seems like they are more apt to be in a position to when needed, be able to do that. And I think that just speaks to the NFL and how you have to be ahead of the curve or if not, you're well behind it. So I think that's something that the.
- [03:31]
C
Bills and they played more man last year, that was part of it. They played it a ton against Baltimore in the playoffs and it really kind of threw a wrench into some of that. It's good to have, I still think the backbone and the staples of Sean McDermott's defense and Bobby Babbage adding to it. It's just nice to have better maybe techniques, game plans, insight, odd man, four man coverage when you have to have it like against say a Kansas City where Mahomes as has been so good at picking a part zone that you are better prepared to do it. Yeah, but I still think it's like I said, the spots are still going to be the same.
- [04:06]
A
I don't think they're ahead of the curve. I think they're joining the curve because I think more teams are playing more man.
- [04:13]
C
Yes.
- [04:13]
A
It just is the way the game evolves. Just like we talk about whether it's the run game on offense or bigger on defense. When we went for a long period of time where smaller, quicker players to adapt to the offenses, then the offenses adapt with more physical play, more running plays and then you got to get a little bigger if you get run over. I think you're right. I think it's funny what really Crushed them last year was having to play those two teams back to back.
- [04:41]
C
Yeah.
- [04:41]
A
Because they are so different offensively in the way they play. And they did really adjust well and did a very good job. And then you play Kansas City where you got to flip the script to play them as the way it ended up turning out. So I think they'll do more to your point, I don't think they change their identity. I think it's still their identity. But, you know, maybe it's 10% more or situationally more to throw the opponent.
- [05:08]
C
Because I think with some of the hirings and the coaching staff, it's like, oh, this philosophy is going to change. I don't think the philosophy changes. I think that they will be better equipped for when they have to do it.
- [05:19]
A
Yeah.
- [05:19]
C
In my opinion.
- [05:20]
B
No, I hear you. Also, you're right. Like they're not ahead of the curve. The curve is curving so they gotta jump on essentially so they don't get left behind. All right, well, let's talk a little bit about the defensive tackle position. Just overall, obviously the Bills invested a ton in that. You know, they made these signings too as well in the off season. So what do you make of that position and. And where do you kind of want to start with the D line or D tackle?
- [05:41]
A
All right, well, let's just start with Ed Oliver and what he has been for the team. He's a very good player. I think he's been held back by not having exceptional talent around him. I think he's had some good players. I think guys have been good. I'm not saying Ed is a game breaking, crushing defensive tackle, but he's had moments and listen, you need help around you and Daquan to go off of the two guys that have been there in the middle is still a good NFL player but is, you know, his numbers have come down in terms of snaps. He's getting older. He has been less impactful in that way. And I think that's part of the reason why Ed is a cornerstone guy for them. Right. They drafted him in 2019. They paid him.
- [06:28]
C
Yep.
- [06:28]
A
They expect him to be good. I still think he's good and can be very good. I think help around him if these. And we'll talk about the rookies and the younger guys. I think that would make a big difference.
- [06:39]
C
Yeah, Ed has flashed.
- [06:41]
A
Yep.
- [06:42]
C
More than Russo has at times of. He has the game breaking ability that you see and still say like, man, he could be an elite defensive tackle in that game when he's taken over it was the Detroit game.
- [06:57]
B
No, no, it was, it was, yeah.
- [06:59]
C
Where he had the 10 pressures. Yes. Like comical. Like the fact that when he loves Detroit. Yes.
- [07:04]
A
He plays well in Detroit. Yeah.
- [07:06]
C
So you see that it's. And then there are times when, whether it's his physical limitations or something like that, like he gets, he's been, he's not that eat two double teams guy to free other things up. Like he's got to be that penetrating defensive tackle that people have been saying they need another one of. It's like you have that, you just want to get another one. So. Yeah, and maybe it's just more that consistency and, and McDermott's talked about that over the years, needing Ed to be that on a game to game basis, not once a month, wrecking the games.
- [07:38]
B
Yeah. And I think it's that, that consistency of like, how can you, you. We have seen him be impactful, we've seen him play at a high level. How do you just continue that production and then also have it, you know, be more stable. Be a guy that can kind of, you know, you can rely on. Because I, we, we talk about Detroit and all those things of. You see those flashes, you see what he can do. It's just wanting to, to get the most out of the investment that you made. Obviously he's a top 10 draft pick. They have resigned him. Like, you just want to see that week in, week out.
- [08:06]
A
All right, so we didn't have the greatest weather over the weekend at times. And you know, I was doing some stuff at home and I'm flipping around on the tv, where's he going with this? Look at what I see. AFC Championship game. Oh, and I turned it on. I was late in the game. Now there were some things about the offense that. We'll save that for the next pod. When we talk about the Bills offense. But Ed Oliver crushed Mahomes on a play late. And I was looking at him like, man, that is that guy. He got through fast and he, he gave Mahomes a shot. Mahomes had to get rid of the ball, if you remember, as much grief as they got and deserved, the defense did come up with two stops and then held them to a field goal late.
- [08:46]
C
Yes.
- [08:47]
A
Not good enough. We know that.
- [08:48]
C
Right.
- [08:49]
A
But when you're watching at that point, I'm like, that's Ed Oliver. That is the guy. He flew into the backfield and hammered Mahomes.
- [08:56]
C
When Ed is that disruptor, it feels like the whole defense has a different vibe to it. It, it's like When Aaron Judge is hitting, you're like, okay, like everybody else. Like we can all pick it up around him because this guy can carry the defensive line single handedly. When, when he has those games in those moments, there feels to be extra juice. It's like he's the, the play of Jordan Phillips. It's like the actual embodiment of like firing up the crowd. When Ed makes those plays and rides the horse as a celebration, it, it is a feel of like he's taking over a game and that's why you have a top 10 pick.
- [09:30]
A
By the way, Jordan Phillips also made a big play in that game. Yeah.
- [09:33]
B
Yeah, he did. Yeah.
- [09:34]
C
Yeah. That was the third down.
- [09:35]
B
Yeah. All the juice. All right, let's talk about Daquan Jones then. A guy who came back to the Bills, played very well. The injury and, and how do you expect him to pan out in this upcoming season?
- [09:47]
A
Well, they're, they definitely are trying to replace him.
- [09:49]
B
Yeah, I mean they.
- [09:50]
A
Yeah, I looked at the numbers because you always got to look at the dead cap and the numbers and daquan is a 9.4 dead cap for this year. Then he's an unrestricted free agent after that. Still carries 3.7 more in dead cap or would be for the, the next year. He played a lot of snaps. He played 540. 546 snaps. Came back from the injuries. I still think he's going to be on the team. I don't see a way for them to move from him. I don't think they would feel like as we talk about the younger guys can eventually take snaps now that may progress that way.
- [10:27]
C
Yeah.
- [10:28]
A
I just hope that for Daquan that he's got himself healthy, comes back strong and can still be an impactful player. It would be great if he got spelled a little bit because he is an older player and there's no question.
- [10:41]
C
Just hasn't been the same since tearing his pack.
- [10:43]
A
Yeah.
- [10:43]
C
Like it just hasn't been the same. I know he came back at the end of that postseason for that Steelers game and the Chiefs game, but he even said like he wasn't 100% that such a debilitating injury for a defensive tackle where that's all of your strength and you just haven't seen it much last year. Fine player. But I think that there's the writings on the wall of whether it's the back nine of your career and understanding like I don't know how much tread is left on those tires for Daquan and I have Pretty low expectations as to what you get out of him. Just because the investment in TJ Sanders we'll get to. And Dwayne Walker, like, I think that they are Dwayne Carter.
- [11:28]
A
No, you mean Dion Walker.
- [11:30]
C
Dion Walker. Sorry, I combined them. How about that? Not my first mess up of the pod, but yeah, I just. I don't know, I guess Daquan's name I think is better than his. What I project his play to be.
- [11:43]
B
So he's 33. Obviously we mentioned the injury. Do you feel like with a year to kind of rebuild that there is the possibility he can regain some of that strength because he does play so well next to Ed.
- [11:58]
A
Yeah.
- [11:59]
B
When he is feeling better.
- [12:02]
A
I will tell you this. As you get older, so hot in this room, they blame everything on your age. And here we're doing it from a football perspective. But he also.
- [12:12]
B
I was saying like.
- [12:13]
A
No, no, I'm. I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying is. It's easy to say, well, he's, he's older and he shot or just isn't what he used to be. But he was hurt and he's coming back from that and it's a physical position. I guess my point would be if they can keep him a little fresher and not play as many snaps, I think he can still be impactful. And to your point, maybe they get one more better year out. Yeah, better than last year. And then maybe as these young players come around, they eventually start to take those snaps. I just, I mean, I guess you never know. The way the league is, somebody walks right in and looks like they're the dude. Well, they can play.
- [12:55]
C
Yeah.
- [12:55]
B
Well, we do know that a torn pack is not an oil change. So catching straights.
- [13:03]
C
This was in the middle of November. The pff. Run defense. Grades and rankings. Daquan was. His grade was 49.2. That was 81st out of 124 defensive tackles. Now again, Ed Oliver was below him, but you don't. Ed's not expected to be necessarily the run stopper. Like he's supposed to be the penetrator. So like his play has not a cliff, but it's declined. And you just wonder what, what, what's left? I guess in my opinion, I'm not trying to harp on it like he's a, you know. Hey, what does he always say? It's all about a man whooping another man. So like that's, that's what his job's got to be.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah, yeah. Maybe with the more time, the more Rehab, the more strength building, he will be better. But obviously like you talked about, I mean they did a lot at that. Like they have invested a ton. So talking about Investment, Dwayne Carter, third round pick last season, 315 snaps on defense, inactive for the playoffs. Dan, what do you make it? A lot of head movements. What do you think?
- [14:07]
C
I think that his playing time and job are in question. And again, you're not going to cut him this year because he spent a third round pick on him last season. But they made a lot of moves and added bigger, faster, stronger guys around him. And I don't, I don't know like that. That to me says they're not sure to invest all those. And I know the defensive line like it's a rotation and all these things, but when I started doing this depth chart and I go, they kept four defensive tackles on the 53 man roster. At the start of last year it was Dwayne Carter, Austin Johnson, Daquan Jones and Ed Oliver. Those were the four that they went with when they broke training camp. And right now they have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 defensive tackles. Right now as we stand on May 5th, like where does he. And again, some of this is projection on what do you think TJ Sanders does? Where do you think Dwayne Walker fits in? Like some of those.
- [15:09]
B
Walker.
- [15:12]
C
I knew it wasn't going to be my last.
- [15:13]
A
Is it age? It's age, yeah. It's causing you issues.
- [15:18]
B
What's your injury?
- [15:19]
C
I guess I look at it and I go, I know it's an overhaul, but they spent free agent capital, they spent money signing Larry Ogun Joby and then they signed two more defensive tackles. Like to me, that's if I'm Dwayne Carter, I'm a little bit concerned.
- [15:34]
A
Okay, so you're being, you trade back the Chiefs, get Xavier Worthy. Oh, we've talked about this a lot. You get Keon, but you added that third.
- [15:46]
C
Trust me, I, My mentions remind me.
- [15:49]
A
All the time, it becomes Dwayne Carter. Now we've all seen this too, guys in their first year. I mean, I think Terrell Bernard is a great example. Nothing on defense as a rookie, Nothing. One game with the jets didn't look good. You're like, oh boy. Comes into the next year, we're like, can this guy play? Because they couldn't figure it out. Well, he can play. Dwayne Carter's I think put on some weight, got bigger. I think that's what they want. He will get every opportunity to earn snaps they want him to earn snaps.
- [16:18]
C
Sure.
- [16:19]
A
On this team. But to your point, what do you say? It's not what they say, it's what they do. They drafted Sanders, they drafted defensive tackles like they are looking.
- [16:29]
B
I mean he could be the odd man out.
- [16:31]
A
Right.
- [16:31]
C
I talked about him being the rotation guy after the draft for. For Daquan and I'm kind of sitting there going, well, how long does Daquan stay number one? And if you're behind Daquan, where does that put you?
- [16:45]
B
Yeah.
- [16:46]
C
And again if. And I. And I know a lot of this stuff is as I joked around before, like the pick your own adventure of. Of draft analysis. So we are projecting what Dwayne Walker, Dion.
- [16:59]
A
Okay, that's. This is. Well, this is record setting.
- [17:04]
C
What Dion, Walker.
- [17:05]
B
Yeah.
- [17:05]
C
Nailed it could be. And what T.J. sanders could be. But they just seem like these guys have at the moment and it's the unknown. But there's more upside in my opinion at that spot. You're bringing in the veteran in Ogun Joby, who I know is going to miss the first six games, but I just see a lot of defensive tackles and Dwayne Carter who had moments. Had moments in the Jacksonville game. It was the Jacksonville game or the Titans game. The Titans game. They had a big fourth down stop where you went. All right, hey, how about this? But again, inactive. I know he had the injury, all of those things. It just again following their money. Between the draft capital and the money they spend, free agency. It kind of. There's a lot of guys around him.
- [17:48]
B
Well, you talk about Larry Ogun Joby, another guy we can mention now suspended the first six games of the season, has never played less than six or 16, 14 games.
- [17:58]
A
And that was his rookie year. He's played 16 or 17 every other year. So he stays on the field. Not this year. The first six games out.
- [18:07]
B
It's a one year deal too. So.
- [18:09]
A
So he was guaranteed 5.4 million. He loses the 2 million of salary guarantee. So they still have 3.4 million. It's 3.4 million. It's not 20 million.
- [18:22]
C
That is correct.
- [18:23]
A
So no, I'm saying.
- [18:24]
C
Wait, wait, wait.
- [18:28]
A
So I'm saying is that doesn't guarantee him.
- [18:32]
B
Yeah.
- [18:33]
A
Time on the roster. They're going to. It would suck to pay that money and get nothing out of the guy.
- [18:40]
C
That sucks.
- [18:41]
A
Right. But you never know what happens at a certain point. But he's going to miss those six games. I'm not saying he's not coming in. I'm saying is. It doesn't guarantee him playing time.
- [18:50]
C
Correct.
- [18:51]
A
That's the way I look at. Even though they. I think they hope for that. They didn't know what they were going to get in the draft. They didn't know how it was going to fall out. So let's see what happens. Man, that is something. When you get that you not only you lose the six games, but you lose the guarantees in that money still gets the signing bonus because that was done. But yeah, it's a big deal.
- [19:10]
B
All right, next guy we can talk about. TJ Sanders, obviously this year's draft pick. Second round pick. All SEC player, 642-97.
- [19:22]
A
They expect him to play.
- [19:23]
C
Yeah.
- [19:24]
B
I mean, yeah, yeah.
- [19:25]
A
He's second round pick on a team that needs defensive line help. He better be ready to. He looks like the kind of guy.
- [19:31]
C
Moved up to get him that you.
- [19:32]
A
Can put him out there and say let's go.
- [19:34]
C
Yeah.
- [19:35]
A
So however they mix up the snaps is going to play itself out. But this is not, you know, even Dwayne Carter last year, third round, like you were hoping he would be more in the rotation and playing. This guy is going in the third 40s, right? 41. 41. Or they expect him to play.
- [19:55]
C
Yeah, I think this, I think Jenna, when we talked about recapping the draft, I thought this was my favorite pick just because we. Everybody was so set on a one technique. Like this guy is kind of like the Ed Oliver where he can rotate around while also being having length. Not necessarily the size of Daquan Jones, not the weight and the, you know, the, the beef of it. But he's the penetrator. He. He's dynamic and can get up the field. So I like. It's like what Mike talked about. Don't get so set on the size of players to fit positions. Get the four best down linemen put their hands in the ground and it's about a man whooping another man. Like that's what this comes down to. So to me that's where I was like, hey, this has got some upside. Some people thought he could be a first rounder. I know a lot of people thought like he fit what they're trying to do in Buffalo. And I liked it a lot.
- [20:46]
B
Yeah, no, I think he's someone that. That's one of the guys I always love going into training camp and you have stuff circle of like which players you really want to see. Obviously the, the Max Hairston is one of them. But a guy like this, what his. What does he look like? What does he, you know what is. What does the fit look like? You know what. What he. Does he stand out? Does he not stand out? You know, so that's someone that I definitely have circled.
- [21:10]
A
I just laugh when a man is 64297 and we're talking about him not being that big.
- [21:15]
C
Not big enough. Yeah.
- [21:17]
A
Because the next guy's big.
- [21:18]
B
Yes. Yeah. Dion Walker is 6, 7, 331 pounds. The beef, you would say. Now, I do think it's important to mention back injury.
- [21:29]
A
Yeah.
- [21:30]
B
That is substantial.
- [21:32]
C
In the way too early mock drafts after 2024, he was projected a possibility of a top 10 pick. Like, generational. This guy is unbelievable. And I've seen some people talk about, like, if you like him, don't look at last year's film. Like, if you like the size of him. Like, back injury was a big problem last year. My back would also be hurting if I was 6, 7, and 300 and plus pounds. Like, but this guy can be an absolute Chris Jones. Like, s. Monster. Not in the sense he. He's not just a space eater. Like, he. He moves well.
- [22:09]
A
Yeah.
- [22:09]
C
For his size. That's rare. Which is so encouraging where it's like. I remember I tweeted going into day two, I was like, just get a large human being like that. That's my wish list for the last day of the draft. And he's. I think Bean said there aren't many people on earth that walk that are walking right now like him.
- [22:25]
A
Yeah. So his comp in the NFL was Jordan Phillips. Size wise, I think he's kind of Kelvin Benjamin. Was that a cheap shot?
- [22:34]
B
That was a stray. Okay. Last guy, Zion log.
- [22:40]
A
I. I don't know.
- [22:41]
B
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
- [22:43]
C
That's our Zion Log talk.
- [22:45]
A
I mean, hey, meritocracy, man. Jump in.
- [22:48]
B
Let's go. True. I mean, he was originally drafted by the Falcons and then cut. Then the Bill signed them.
- [22:55]
A
Yeah.
- [22:56]
B
Last year. So we'll see.
- [22:57]
C
The one thing I wanted to. To try and do with this pot and the way that I looked at it as we evaluate the state of the Bill's defense is I thought I wanted to look at the position groups, and I did all the defensive line together. But I thought highest floor, highest ceiling, lowest floor, lowest ceiling. Oh, so that was kind of how I. That was kind of how I went and looked at this.
- [23:19]
A
So you want to do it for the whole D line?
- [23:21]
C
I. I did the whole D line.
- [23:22]
A
So let's go through the defensive ends and then you give us your okay. Picks and we'll. We'll.
- [23:27]
C
But that was just something that like, that makes sense. What triggered for me with like looking at the state of like, who do you think has the biggest upside? Who do you think has the lowest upside? All of those kind of things was the way that I kind of broke it down.
- [23:39]
B
Yeah. Okay, interesting. So highest floor, highest ceiling, lowest floor, lowest ceiling.
- [23:44]
C
Does that make sense?
- [23:44]
B
Do you think the lowest floor and the lowest ceiling though, would that be this? You hope it's not the same player, but you think.
- [23:49]
C
No, I got all. I have four different. I actually have one group applies to two of them in my eyes, but I use three out of the four.
- [23:57]
A
Okay.
- [23:57]
B
All right, let's talk defense bend. Greg Rousseau. Start there.
- [24:01]
A
They paid him.
- [24:02]
C
They have high hopes for Mike's golden child.
- [24:05]
A
No, I like him. I mean, I'm telling you, I like his physical makeup. And sometimes it takes these guys a little while to really see the production. And just like I said with Ed, he hasn't had the consistency on the other side. It really hasn't. They got nothing out of that other side. Last year in pass rush. He's got.
- [24:24]
C
What about when Vaughn was really good?
- [24:26]
A
It was a short period of time, eight games.
- [24:30]
C
And what did Greg do?
- [24:32]
A
Well, that was. We're talking about what, 20, 20.
- [24:35]
C
I'm just.
- [24:36]
A
It was a year into the league.
- [24:37]
B
Maybe he's a late bloomer.
- [24:39]
A
It's his. Even he's young. That is a plus. And I'm telling you. You guys, what's our bet?
- [24:45]
B
Let's like, should we make a bet?
- [24:46]
C
I think I still owe you a six pack for the last thing.
- [24:49]
A
Yeah, I also.
- [24:50]
B
We are going to do the pilates video.
- [24:52]
C
Yes, Yes.
- [24:53]
A
I. I would say this in terms of what he can be. I think here's the way I would describe him. I can say the numbers, but we even that we know sometimes the sack total. Like he had three in the early game. Then he came back, had a few others. I say he looks like the guy they were right to pay. That's my point. And I think that's going to be pretty. It'll be obvious one way or the other because now he's been in the league, now he's had his time in the league. I'm putting that out there that I think he's going to look like a guy they were right to pay.
- [25:26]
C
He said this last offseason.
- [25:28]
B
I don't remember.
- [25:28]
A
Well, they paid him.
- [25:30]
B
So they obviously believe.
- [25:32]
A
Who knows more than you do. Agreed that we got to pay this guy. Why would you think they were going to pay him? It's hard to find pass rushers.
- [25:44]
C
Yeah.
- [25:44]
B
Do you think that's why they just asked Brandon Bean?
- [25:47]
A
Yes.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah.
- [25:48]
A
Shots are.
- [25:49]
B
There we go. All right. Joey Bosa, one year deal, 14 games last season. 14 combined the two previous years.
- [25:57]
A
Yeah.
- [25:58]
B
Injury concerns, obviously something that, that stars out there.
- [26:02]
C
Yeah. I think I was listening to some PFF podcast or the 33rd team, some of that, and they just talked about bubble wrap Bosa and just get them to the postseason.
- [26:12]
A
I don't buy that.
- [26:13]
C
I think he's going to play more than what the expectation is. The NFL is too tough to sit there and bubble wrap in the preseason. That's something we completely different. Like we've joked around about like Josh take five snaps and then ship him to wherever their first, you know, week one game is. But it's too grueling of a sport. And like I said, if it's the big if, like if Bose is healthy, he's been pretty good on the field. Last year he was talking about he was at 60 to 70% last year. Um, when he's on the field and healthy, I think there's a lot of upside in Joey Bosa and it doesn't stunt or hold back development of other players with a one year deal. Like if Javon Solomon becomes a guy that, that can be rotational with him, but I think he replaces AJ Epanessa. I think it's an upgrade at that end alongside of, of Epanessa. So I, I, I liked the move from day one. I thought it made sense.
- [27:08]
B
Yeah, Yeah.
- [27:09]
A
I don't think you, I mean, I, I sort of understand why people say bubble wrap him for the year. I just don't think you overdo him in individual games, especially September, October. There is a point where he's going to need to be. The games will become more and more important during the year, even in the regular season in the NFL. And I think you want him as a closer. Yeah, it's, you want him as a healthy closer. You don't want to be burning him out in September and October and hoping he stays healthy the whole year.
- [27:38]
B
Yeah, it's a fine line of like having him be ready and feel confident and also not overdoing it. And how do you thread that needle? And that's something for the Bills and for Joey Bosa and the, the training staff and everyone to figure out because.
- [27:51]
C
We always heard that too about last year with Von. It's like, oh, they're saving him for the playoffs and then he had like 12 snaps in each playoff game and you were like, okay, like there just wasn't, it wasn't there. So like, to, to go into this, I think you need to. They always talk about like, whether it's the football energy or the football strength, like you can condition all you want. It's different to be in a game. So I, I expect him to be the starting end on week one. I expect him to be out there on a lot of all three downs because that's what I think you paid him to be. Is that guy.
- [28:20]
A
Yeah.
- [28:21]
B
All right, Next guy. AJ Epanessa.
- [28:28]
A
I like aj. They did both free agency and in the draft find replacements for him. I mean, they gave him the other deal. So he was, you know, because he was a second round guy and he got it.
- [28:41]
C
They gave him a deal. They must really like him and think that he's going to project to be.
- [28:44]
A
It was a short term deal.
- [28:45]
B
Short term deal.
- [28:48]
A
And I looked at it and thought, I just, I think he's really got to earn his role on the team that year. I think he sort of fell into it last year. They had hopes that he could get. He did not, did not create a pass rush at all. His numbers were really low with pressure rates and everything.
- [29:09]
C
Just ask Aaron Rogers about his pass.
- [29:12]
A
Yes, that's right. He got to Rogers.
- [29:14]
C
Yes, that is file video for ever.
- [29:18]
A
I, I think AJ's been a good team guy. He's flashed some pretty big plays but just not enough on that side. Now maybe in a more fitted role for him as more rotational. Maybe. But come on, like you made a lot of moves on. Now we know we're going to talk about Hoyt. We're, we're going to talk about Solomon, we're going to talk about those other guys. They brought in people plus the draft pick. I mean, like they spent some resources.
- [29:49]
C
He's going to get the first six games to see what his season looks like. I think he's going to get a lot of snaps with Hoyt out just because of the fact of sheer numbers. And unless Landon Jackson is exceptional in camp, I think they're going to lean a little bit more towards AJ in that spot and then spell obviously with Solomon and Jackson those first third of the season. But if it's not impactful at that point, then, you know, you kind of know where the Future lies with AJ.
- [30:18]
B
Yeah.
- [30:18]
A
And Solomon's got to say something too.
- [30:21]
C
No, AJ's not young anymore.
- [30:22]
B
No, he's not.
- [30:23]
A
Javon Solomon is.
- [30:25]
B
Well, he's 26 it's not old. I mean he's young. He actually is decently young.
- [30:30]
A
He'll have a place in the league. It's just. It's just. I don't know. You don't know how it works out this year. But I'm not second round pick. Yes. And Javon Solomon is a smaller player.
- [30:42]
B
Oh, we're going into Javon.
- [30:43]
A
Well, I just was. We'll go because we just mentioned him to be playing. He's got to show a lot because again they drafted over him, signed over him I think because if he would have really flashed last year they might have thought a little bit differently about the defensive end position.
- [31:00]
B
A thousand percent. I mean he was a 5th round pick in 20, 24, 2 sacks. Some time on special teams though. Defensive snaps, I mean you would like to think. But also what they did showed you that they felt like they needed reinforcements still.
- [31:17]
A
Yeah.
- [31:17]
C
The one thing I like about Solomon moving forward is he is something different than what the rest of the defensive ends are. So he's the short speed bend guy and a lot of the other guys, Greg six six, Landon Jackson, six six Boses. A mountain of a man. Like all those things where I think he can find a role as a niche third down edge rusher. He's not going to be a run stopper like that was where he was drafted out of Troy was because of all of the sacks. I like that he provides something different than what the rest of the defensive ends around him are. So like that was always the thing is that like his measurables were kind of like Vons a little bit shorter. The speed, the bend. I like that for him because that's something that the other guys don't have.
- [32:03]
A
Something different from that side is getting to the quarterback. That is also true because they didn't do it last year.
- [32:09]
C
That is true.
- [32:09]
B
Yeah there is that.
- [32:10]
C
Greg didn't get to the quarterback much either.
- [32:13]
A
He got there. He by far had the best stats for.
- [32:17]
C
That's a low bar, Michael.
- [32:19]
A
That's where they were.
- [32:21]
B
All right, let's talk Michael Hoyt. Six game suspension, three year deal. So a little bit different obviously than Ogun Joby. 17 game or 17 starts in 20, 23, six sacks, played 17 games each year. So someone that has been reliable out on the field.
- [32:36]
A
Now there's a team that knows how to draft defensive linemen.
- [32:39]
B
That Rams have done a really good job. Yeah.
- [32:42]
A
And they had Hoyt in that spot where he played on the D line earlier. They had him even playing in like coverage and all I think the Bills are going to point him to the quarterback and say go. I think that is what his strength has been. This, this suspension. Really? That sucks.
- [32:59]
B
Yeah.
- [32:59]
A
I mean this is, this is bad for him, bad for the team, bad for Bean, bad for everything.
- [33:03]
B
Bean said he did know about it.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah, but it, and yes, they stayed with it. But yeah, man, like you bring the guy in, you want to see him hit the ground and this team, you know, you would look at things differently.
- [33:15]
C
Yeah. Coming into it, you talk about the pressure that's on each individual player and it's all different. Obviously. Like, Greg has the big contract. Boson, a one year deal. What is AJ going to provide and those kind of things. I feel like there's a ton of pressure on Hoyt, not only because of the suspension, missing the six games and he seems like a great guy. Took accountability. Said he was pretty much just lackadaisical and got complacent with his trainer and those kind of the PED suspension. But they paid him a lot.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah.
- [33:44]
C
For a guy that was a rotational piece with the Rams and I get it, they probably have one of the best front sevens in, in the NFL.
- [33:53]
A
Yeah.
- [33:54]
C
But that's a lot of money and, and being kind of putting his neck out there on this guy, which maybe Rams fans do much about him. I didn't know who he was and I know like afterwards you, you see the clips and, and this story and that and like they are putting a lot of expectation as to him being a difference maker on the defense when you put him to that kind of a contract.
- [34:16]
A
Yeah. And like I said, they've drafted. Basically drafted over him and decided to let him walk at that period of time. But he was productive. Yes, he was productive and he does have that energy. I think he does bring something to this team. I said to you guys, I think he replaces Vaughn in the defense.
- [34:37]
C
Okay. Yeah, I could. Okay.
- [34:40]
A
Yeah. As a, as a pass rushing guy coming in. I don't. I think that's kind of what I mean. They didn't get a lot out of Vaughn.
- [34:48]
B
Yeah. That's why it's hard to.
- [34:49]
C
It's almost like they replaced Bosa. Replaced. It's like they got two guys replace AJ. It's like, it's like they replaced.
- [34:59]
A
But AJ's still there, right?
- [35:00]
B
Yeah, but it's like.
- [35:02]
C
Well, like AJ got replaced on third downs by Bosa and you're like. Or by Vaughn and then this. Yeah, they got a lot of guys replace AJ.
- [35:11]
B
I'm fascinated by the rookie Landon Jackson. Six six, two, six, four. Sixteen sacks over three, six seasons at Arkansas, third round pick, 72nd overall. I loved him. I just think that I. I see a lot of potential. We'll put it that way. I think he can be a disruptor. I think he has that high motor that's been talked about. I think that that's something I want to see. And I think that he. When I look at him, he seems like a Bills guy off of the field. And just the skill set that he has and how productive he has been, I think that could, in my eyes, hopefully translate.
- [35:47]
C
Yeah, I. I think this is another. This one made a lot of sense for the Bills to sign him. I think that's also. We can do this. And I know we don't believe in this. Great value. Like. Like this. This was a guy.
- [35:59]
B
Like, I just came. The Walmart brand.
- [36:00]
A
Yeah.
- [36:01]
C
No, not that. Like, actually.
- [36:02]
B
No, no, I know.
- [36:03]
C
Actually, great value.
- [36:05]
A
Well, actually.
- [36:06]
B
Well, actually. But you know what I mean.
- [36:08]
A
Yeah.
- [36:09]
C
Another guy with. With length and size and speed and strength. Like, it. He has a bunch. I think we talked about it after the draft of, like, I like all the things that he has, like, in his tool belt, like the fact that he has. Has one inside, he's one outside. He's got speed, he's got length. I liked all that stuff about him.
- [36:27]
B
Yeah.
- [36:28]
A
Yeah. I think he's going to get an opportunity. And we. You mentioned it before we talk about this. You play guys on the D line.
- [36:36]
C
Yeah.
- [36:36]
A
They're going to get chances, and if you're producing and you show you can produce, they're going to get opportunities to see what they can do. So.
- [36:43]
C
And remember I was talking about last year, they had four defensive tackles on the 53, and they actually had. At the time we said they had. Right now they have seven. And I know the suspensions are not factoring those in, but last year they had six on the 53 going in after training camp. They have currently have six.
- [37:00]
A
Yeah.
- [37:01]
B
Okay.
- [37:02]
A
All right.
- [37:02]
B
Do we want to do highs?
- [37:03]
A
Well, you want to give your.
- [37:05]
C
Yeah, I think the D line has the highest ceiling. I. I think that there's. Like you said, you look at what Joey Bosa could be, what T.J. sanders could be, what Dwayne Walker.
- [37:16]
B
Dion. Oh, my gosh.
- [37:19]
A
Do you know who he's going to go up against? Connor McGovern.
- [37:24]
B
Maybe that's why I got to spell.
- [37:26]
C
It differently or something.
- [37:29]
B
It's spelled D, E O, N E. Just think like, Dion Walker.
- [37:33]
C
Yeah, I.
- [37:33]
A
He's like their offensive tackle just spelled Differently.
- [37:37]
B
Spell however you want in your head. Just say it. Right.
- [37:40]
A
This might be a walk time record.
- [37:42]
B
Yeah, that's like five. Yeah. He's getting old.
- [37:46]
A
No, dyslexia is a real thing.
- [37:49]
B
No, you can't say that is not. Okay, so you did.
- [37:54]
A
I thought you'd done individual.
- [37:56]
B
I thought you were doing.
- [37:57]
A
Nope, I didn't.
- [37:57]
C
I didn't. Units.
- [37:59]
B
Okay, so let's, let's, let's discuss then. Highest floor. In my head, I would say that would be at Oliver. I feel like that's fair.
- [38:08]
A
I agree with you.
- [38:09]
B
You can be you. You know the. Where the floor is at, and that's the highest floor, highest ceiling.
- [38:17]
A
I think it's Joey Bosa.
- [38:19]
B
Oh, interesting. I actually want Dion Walker. If he's like.
- [38:22]
A
Well, yes. To, to what? You think he can be like this.
- [38:26]
B
But the ceiling's unknown for a proven guy. Yeah.
- [38:28]
C
I'm with Jenna because I think he's a unicorn. Like, if his back's healthy and he.
- [38:31]
A
I mean, it could be. That would be. That would be a huge.
- [38:35]
C
Yeah.
- [38:35]
A
Thing for them. The reason I bring up Bosa is because he's the guy on this roster that has done it.
- [38:40]
B
Correct. That's fair, I think. Yeah.
- [38:41]
A
And again, healthy. Yeah, he could be now. And then there's the other side of that because he's dealt with the injuries. But how about if they get a break here? How about if they bring in this. Yes, that's right. I should use that. And he does stay healthy and he produces that way because it's, it's tough to find.
- [38:59]
C
Yeah.
- [38:59]
A
Like you, you are. You're spending some money. You're doing it in this way, but let's see if that ends up.
- [39:04]
C
Yeah. So I just did as the whole.
- [39:05]
A
Yeah.
- [39:06]
C
I just looked at the groups and where they fit these things. I just thought, especially where this defensive line was. I think they have the highest upside because of all the investments they put in. Didn't do individual players.
- [39:17]
B
You made us list all the guys. Like, I didn't do individual players.
- [39:20]
A
I thought that's why we waited. But by the way, what's rattling around in here today?
- [39:25]
B
Okay. Lowest floor.
- [39:29]
A
Lowest floor.
- [39:29]
B
I would say in log.
- [39:31]
C
I, I didn't do this, so I don't know the exercise well.
- [39:34]
B
No, I, I mean, I did it while you were talking. I think lowest floor. Daan. He's not.
- [39:43]
A
No, I, I, I would think Daquan has produced for years in the league.
- [39:49]
B
Yeah, that's fair. I was trying to go for a more proven guy, but you could Say, like.
- [39:56]
C
See, I didn't do this project.
- [39:57]
B
So I, I, I know you were the one that made the prompt and then you didn't even do it. Who would you say? Mike. Lowest floor.
- [40:05]
A
I mean, it's hard, like, it's hard to say that about Javon Solomon. He hasn't really, really play. I, I would honestly. And I feel like I'm picking on him here, but I would say it's AJ Only because I think he's going to lose snaps, and I think it could end up being a year where he's not a regular rotation.
- [40:21]
B
I put him as lowest ceiling.
- [40:23]
A
Well, that could be the case too mean. Because I don't think you expect him to bust out and get.
- [40:29]
B
I agree. You know, so I'm curious, because AJ and Greg are the same draft class.
- [40:37]
C
No, no, no.
- [40:38]
B
Okay.
- [40:38]
A
AJ was, AJ was 20, 20.
- [40:41]
B
Greg was 20, 21.
- [40:42]
A
Right.
- [40:43]
B
Okay. They're one year different then.
- [40:45]
A
Yeah, it's good. Wait, wait, hang on. 20 and 21.
- [40:53]
B
But I'm saying you, you're like, I don't know, it might be over. It's over for aj but you're like, I don't know about Greg.
- [40:59]
A
Well, I, it's hard.
- [41:00]
C
Why people come to the channel.
- [41:01]
A
It is hard to talk about floor and ceiling on some of these guys. That.
- [41:05]
C
Right. That's why I did it as a group.
- [41:07]
A
Like.
- [41:10]
C
Like, I did as a group.
- [41:11]
B
Yeah, that's fair.
- [41:12]
A
Like Dante Walker. All right.
- [41:17]
B
But I just mean, like, and I'm playing, I'm playing devil's advocate here because I agree, I do think that Greg, he was a first round pick. I think he does have a higher scene. Ceiling, all those things.
- [41:27]
A
But because somebody's going to correct you.
- [41:30]
B
No, Greg was. Oh, Greg was a first round picker. AJ was there first, but it was in the second round because of Stefan Diggs. Whatever. But okay, you're ready to say, like, it, it's over for aj, but you're like, greg.
- [41:45]
A
No, because Greg's not going anywhere. I mean, they, because they paid him.
- [41:49]
B
Correct.
- [41:50]
C
You could do the same argument next year.
- [41:53]
A
Yes.
- [41:54]
B
He's not going anywhere.
- [41:55]
C
He's not. Still gonna be young.
- [41:56]
B
Yeah, still gonna be young. I'm gonna say it's just as devil's.
- [42:00]
C
Advocate of like, so Jersey and hang.
- [42:02]
A
It up behind you, Bean and I.
- [42:05]
B
He is a very nice guy, too. He does.
- [42:08]
C
Oh, we're not questioning God. Like, they're.
- [42:10]
B
No, but I'm like, I get why he's like, he's easy to root for. I totally get it.
- [42:16]
A
But they paid him because.
- [42:19]
B
I know, I know.
- [42:20]
A
Why?
- [42:21]
C
Are we gonna get a third character?
- [42:22]
B
No, I'm just.
- [42:22]
A
I'm just like, I'm rooting for all these guys.
- [42:26]
B
Yes, yes, yes. Contrary to what people.
- [42:28]
C
I'm rooting for Dwayne Walker the most. I know it's Dion. That was a joke.
- [42:33]
A
Was.
- [42:33]
B
No, it was. Okay. I thought.
- [42:35]
C
All right, so my group as a whole, I said the upside is the highest ceiling is for this D line. They've spent the most investments into it. And I think that the pieces that they've added with what TJ Sanders could be. What Dwayne. Nope. No, I meant to say Landon, Landon, Jackson could be. What I like about this is what you only talk about with like wide receivers. Like, oh, you want them to kind of be like that basketball team where they all have a different skill set. I really like what this D line can be and morph into. They have a lot of guys with size like we talk about on the inside with Dion Walker and Daquan Jones and Dwayne Carter and some of those guys. And then you have the penetrators like TJ Sanders or Ed Oliver. And then you have length on the outside, and then you have a speed piece like Javon Salman. Like, all of that to me will cause issues in theory to an offensive line. You don't just know that they're just big. They're. They're also fast. They're. They've got length with the, you know, speed. They're not just all big, heavy guys. I like that versatility of all their, their lengths and sizes on the defensive line. I think that this could be a. A revamped in an overhaul. Defensive line, I think could be really good, complimentary. And I hope that people, like, are still watching because that was a good point by me after, after just butchering the last.
- [43:53]
B
Like, there are a lot of D names also on the D line.
- [43:55]
C
Thanks.
- [43:56]
B
So there's that. I'm trying.
- [43:58]
C
Thanks.
- [43:59]
B
I'm trying. Should we do credit to me, I feel like we should break this up. There's so.
- [44:06]
C
Well, I don't think we need to list every player.
- [44:09]
B
Okay. Should we cut this out?
- [44:10]
A
Well, here's what I'm going to tell you. I can say this here. So when we go to linebacker, Terrell Bernard is set. We know who he is. Matt Milano. Matt Milano. Basically, they've created a one year deal for him.
- [44:21]
B
Correct.
- [44:22]
A
Now, that doesn't mean something couldn't happen, but the plan is whether they'll tell you or not is he's going to play this year and then he's going to move on. Yep, I think so. You would say that. But when Milano is healthy, we all know this, he's just. This issue is not being healthy. Did look better in the playoffs. Those are your starting linebackers. Everybody knows it from, from this moment on. And then the guy I think is a key linebacker wise is Dorian Williams.
- [44:49]
C
Yep.
- [44:49]
A
Does he show them enough to say he can step right in, he'll get snaps this year and play. He'll play teams like he played a lot last year when, when Milano was out. But does he show you enough to bring him back or are they jumping right back in the pool looking for somebody new next year?
- [45:06]
C
Couldn't agree more. And this is my position group. I think that has the lowest floor because after Bernard there's questions.
- [45:16]
A
Yeah.
- [45:17]
B
Like lowest floor. Okay.
- [45:18]
C
Lowest floor. Like this could be the. If things go bad at linebacker, there's not a ton of depth behind it.
- [45:25]
B
Where you can say safety.
- [45:28]
C
I'll get to that in a second. Where I go, I look at this and I say, you hope Milano is what we saw at the end of the season. I think that's. That's the hope. You know what? Terrell Bernard is really, really good linebacker. I liked what Dorian Williams brought. I think he improved from his first year. Not as much as Bernard did from one to two, but still, he was a liability his rookie year in coverage and got better. Not great, but satisfactory. And so that kind of hinges. And again, if Milano's injury history is rears its ugly head again, like where are you then? And what if Bernard misses a few more games because he's been injured at times? Like there's, there's a drop off here that's pretty substantial for the linebacker. And I go, if things go wrong at linebacker position, it could go really wrong.
- [46:16]
A
Yeah. They, they would have to be in the veteran market looking for a guy because you got Olofosio who barely played Joanne Dreesen. Great story. Showed some ability maybe that, you know, in another year. I'm not a for bail inspector. I think it's gonna be a tough sell this year. Yeah. So I don't know what they end up doing, but to your point, it is. I think it's the most top heavy position group they have on the whole team.
- [46:43]
C
I agree. So like the bottom is. The bottom is. Is low in my, in my opinion.
- [46:49]
A
That's why I think Milano staying healthy would be just massive for the entire defense.
- [46:54]
C
Massive.
- [46:55]
B
Yeah. Agreed. Antarell Bernard, though, Like, I know obviously it's been Milano that's had the more substantial injuries, but, you know, Bernard gets.
- [47:03]
A
Nicked up a little bit. He's tough. He comes back, you know.
- [47:06]
B
Yeah. All right, safeties, Taylor rap.
- [47:11]
C
Well, like I said, I talk about them as a whole. This is my position group that I have as the highest floor and the lowest ceiling. I think they're just going to be fine. Best case scenario.
- [47:25]
B
Interesting.
- [47:26]
C
They're fine. Worst case scenario, they're fine. Like, I don't see anything of like, wow, look at what these safeties can do. I look them at as trusting Bobby Babbage and Sean McDermott that no matter who's out there, they're going to be coached up to be. Well, for everybody that was really upset about demar Hamlin playing and not liking him on the field, he was still fine. And so I look at whoever's back there. I'm not saying they're going to be game changers. That's why I think they have the lowest ceiling. I don't think they're going to take over games with who they have at safety, but I think they're going to be fine no matter what.
- [48:03]
B
I could. I definitely see how you make the case for that.
- [48:05]
C
I left you all speechless.
- [48:07]
A
I think it's the weakest position on the team.
- [48:09]
C
I think it's linebacker.
- [48:11]
A
Oh, see?
- [48:12]
B
But I think.
- [48:12]
A
I think the guys could be exceptional.
- [48:14]
B
Yes.
- [48:15]
A
If they're healthy.
- [48:16]
C
Okay.
- [48:17]
A
I don't see. I don't see an exception, but I see four starters. Wait, but that's because I. You don't think the bar is low.
- [48:25]
C
Would you rather have Cam Lewis at safety or would you rather have Balen Spectra at linebacker?
- [48:30]
A
That's. But we're talking about the top.
- [48:33]
C
I'm not saying the top is good. I'm saying the depth of the safety position is pretty solid for of the four safeties.
- [48:44]
B
I. I hear you, Mike, because I agree, like, the talent with Milano and Bernard is just. It's just better than.
- [48:51]
C
I mean, rap and the top, again, that's why I feel like the safeties are the most middle of middle. There's nothing flashy at the top. And if Cam Lewis had to play a game at safety, I wouldn't be like, they're screwed. If Balon Spectre had to play a game at linebacker, I'm going, they're screwed.
- [49:07]
A
Okay. I. I think Taylor raps a good player. I don't think he's at the level of either of those linebackers. Certainly I'm not Cole Bishop is not even at the level of Dorian Williams because he just hasn't played enough to show enough. Now, listen, if Dorian Williams comes out and he's the guy that Bean wanted when he picked him and you, and he's got more knowledge of the defense and plays really well and looks like a version of Micah Hyde back there for you, sure. Awesome. Makes a big difference. Everything jumps. I think a lot of it, a lot of it hinges on him 100%. So, yes.
- [49:45]
B
Okay.
- [49:46]
A
Not that Demar can't jump in there and he can. And we know he's played, by the way. It's one year, two million, all guaranteed. Derek Forest has started in the league, which is nice to have that as a backup. I'm worried about this position in general.
- [50:00]
C
This is the position I'm probably least worried about because last year when it was the big change and losing Hyde and Poyer and we all thought this was a defense that for the longest time is built from the back to the front. And how could they adjust without Poyer and Hyde? They were fine. They were not awful. They were fine. They didn't cost you games. Could they have been better? Absolutely. I'm not sitting here saying they're Pro Bowlers and oh, like, look at all this. They were fine. Demar Hamlin was fine. Cole Bishop was young. So I just. If we've learned anything young, if we've learned anything, in my opinion, it's to trust that Bobby Babich and Sean McDermott will have the safeties coached up enough that they won't cost them a game.
- [50:47]
A
Okay.
- [50:48]
C
I'm not saying they're going to make game changing plays. That is not what I'm saying. I just have the most confident that McDermott and Babich will have the safeties where they need to be and especially Cole Bishop. A second year in the system, that would be great. And a training camp, I think would be huge.
- [51:03]
B
Would you say this is your lowest floor grouping for defense? I would agree with that. And you have it as your lowest ceiling.
- [51:10]
C
Yeah.
- [51:11]
B
Okay. All right, Corner.
- [51:14]
C
Trying to make a Greg Russo joke in here and I can't think of it.
- [51:17]
B
That's okay. Christian Bedford. Great. Trey White obviously signed his one year deal, 2.2 million guaranteed. The two injuries that were season ending. What does he have left in the tank? How much do you think the Bills are relying, looking into this season on him?
- [51:38]
A
I think he is. He is the floor setter. I think you said that even at the draft, like Trey is. Yeah, because Trey's a pro Trey will be. Not that he isn't always motivated. He's comfortable here in a good way, comfortable in Buffalo. Hopefully he's healthy, you know, and that would be great to set the floor, but we've talked about this. They want Hairston to step in and start, there's no question. And he adds a dynamic element to the team. I think that could be a really nice place to have him and Benford as your top two corners and I think that would be great. And you have Trey on the team. Dane Jackson is a, you know, veteran who's been around. The money is not an issue in terms of it. Hardy that they drafted didn't even get activated in any game. The guy I find, really two guys I find very interesting in this position. I'm not sure what they think of Jamarcus England. I know, yeah, it's tough. And I would have liked to have seen him, you know, like, we thought he was going to start in the Detroit game.
- [52:41]
C
Yep.
- [52:41]
A
And then boom.
- [52:42]
C
Kair.
- [52:43]
A
Kair, yeah. So whatever reason, they still had more faith in Kair and then he played in the Chiefs game. I mean, Ingram moves around a lot. He plays teams. I think he's on the team. Like, I don't think he's going anywhere. And watch out for Dorian Strong. I'm big on him.
- [52:59]
C
So I was listening to one of the podcasts and they were talking about how the Bills made a concerted effort because they took the kid from Ohio State as well, who can kind of play everywhere. You know, he was the safety, the corner and in place.
- [53:12]
A
Hancock.
- [53:13]
C
Yes. Thank you. And so I was in. They triple dipped with corners.
- [53:18]
A
Right.
- [53:19]
C
Like they went. And the guy was talking about how Dorian Strong was the sixth round pick and all these things and size and that he didn't run fast, but his shuttle time was insane. Like it's the agility in the short spaces that is really good. Agile, things like that. And they said, yeah, remember the last time the Bills took a. A corner in the first round and in the sixth round, the six round guy ended up panning out pretty well, not the first round guy. And they were like, no, it's not going to happen with Harrison. Like that's how we see it. But there's that thought that I, I'm very intrigued as to what Dorian Strong will be because it didn't take long at camp until we were all like, who's this Benford kid out of Nova? This kid's making plays left and right. So be interesting to see because I, I do think that is you talk about meritocracy. We know that just because Maxwell Harrison is the first round pick it does not mean he is going to be handed the starting job. They will want him to 100%. But it was Benford that started over Elam and it was right. So. So just think about that when we go into this position where CB2 is wide open.
- [54:28]
A
Because at this time we were like most other people. We weren't even mentioning Christian.
- [54:33]
B
No, no.
- [54:35]
A
It was, you know, because you bring in guys like Hardy.
- [54:38]
C
Yeah.
- [54:38]
A
And then he never did anything but you're like he's a sixth round pick. Like whatever.
- [54:43]
B
All right, then slot Taryn, Cam Lewis, Jordan Hancock. And obviously they talked about Hancock maybe moving to safety.
- [54:49]
C
Yeah.
- [54:51]
B
So highest floor you had D line. No. What did you have?
- [54:54]
C
Highest ceiling. I had D line.
- [54:56]
B
That's fair. I agree with that.
- [54:57]
C
Highest floor I had safety because I. I just think they're going to be steady. And then I had the corners. It was a toss up because if Maxwell Harrison is hits like this is.
- [55:08]
A
They'Re gonna be good.
- [55:08]
C
They're gonna be real good with Benford and that. So yeah, it was just. It's intriguing to see what this secondary and again goes back to what I think the zone coverage, the man coverage, all those things. I think they can be more versatile this year along with the defensive line and do a lot more things.
- [55:27]
B
Which group has the most pressure. I think we're all going to be in agreement.
- [55:31]
C
It's a D line.
- [55:31]
B
Yeah.
- [55:33]
C
With what all that being spent and the investments into it. Yeah.
- [55:37]
A
If you look at. Yeah. Certainly if you look at the quarterback. Yeah, yeah. And they. They to be more impactful in any way in the game to help these other guys out. Terrence, one of my favorite players ever covering with the Bills. I think he's been great. He'll be 30 next year.
- [55:56]
C
That's crazy.
- [55:57]
A
I am just saying like you know this league and I'm not saying they're looking to replace him. He gets Nick. He's so tough. He plays hard.
- [56:05]
B
So tough.
- [56:08]
C
He plays tougher than like his body.
- [56:09]
A
Yeah.
- [56:09]
C
Sustain.
- [56:10]
B
And they remember he had the injuries a couple like the first couple seasons where you're like, can this kid stand?
- [56:15]
C
Yeah. Shoulder, collarbone and it was wrist.
- [56:18]
A
Yeah.
- [56:18]
C
Last year. Forearm.
- [56:20]
A
But I. I think they have a lot of high hopes for Hancock and I agree. Doesn't mean like now.
- [56:25]
C
No. But.
- [56:26]
A
But this is the way this league works. So.
- [56:28]
C
Yeah.
- [56:28]
A
Let's see, let's see.
- [56:29]
C
What's the rest of Terrence contract?
- [56:31]
A
So his dead cap after this year is 4.3 million.
- [56:36]
C
Ooh.
- [56:36]
A
So this is where, again, I'll quote Jenna. Their actions will show something. They could be redoing Taran during the year. They got some other ones, like I mentioned McGovern, you know, in terms of what they want to do. We'll talk offense in the next podcast, but, you know, they drafted Vampran Granger.
- [56:57]
C
Yep.
- [56:58]
A
As the kind of guy that eventually they might have this idea of doing it. Like, they had this whole plan with Governor in this case. I'm not saying I. Taryn Johnson, like I said, is a poor guy for this team.
- [57:11]
C
Absolutely.
- [57:12]
A
And can still play. So he's not going. But at some point, like, let's see what they do with his. Because his contract could be one they extend.
- [57:20]
B
Yeah.
- [57:21]
A
If they have that plan.
- [57:22]
B
All right. Credit to me.
- [57:23]
A
Sure. Go ahead.
- [57:26]
C
One. It's. We recording this on Monday afternoon. Um. Rough start to my day. I took my kids multivitamin.
- [57:33]
B
Why is that bad?
- [57:34]
C
I don't know. That's just one of those things where it's like, am I with it?
- [57:39]
B
You know, the vitamin. It was the vitamin today.
- [57:41]
A
I did a podcast one time when I accidentally took. It's not a sleeping pill, but it might as well be. And I.
- [57:50]
B
You never told us this pod.
- [57:52]
A
Oh, yeah. And I.
- [57:54]
B
And I'm the one that people say is high.
- [57:56]
A
I kind of was high, and I accidentally took it. And I've made a point now that stays in a different drawer because it was accidental. Thought it was the allergy medicine. I just grabbed it, and then I was like, oh, no. And I drank a lot of coffee that day, and you guys had no idea.
- [58:13]
C
And there's the open.
- [58:16]
B
That can't be the open.
- [58:18]
A
You guys had no idea. You'd ask Jenny.
- [58:20]
B
Maybe we did.
- [58:22]
C
I made a comment one time, the Jetta, where I was like, I think Mike's a little out of it today.
- [58:28]
A
That might have been the day. Maybe it was rough because I was.
- [58:30]
C
Like, it was like a Saturday you came in.
- [58:32]
A
No, it wasn't a Saturday.
- [58:34]
C
That was a different one.
- [58:36]
A
I was probably just hammered, so go ahead. So you took the kids vitamins. Was it shaped like Fred Flintstone?
- [58:43]
C
No, but those are so ch.
- [58:44]
A
We both.
- [58:45]
C
But we both have, like, a. A gummy vitamin.
- [58:48]
A
Oh, my God. Keep the gummies.
- [58:52]
C
It was just like. I was like, my greens and this and that. And then I was like, all right. And I took it, and I looked down. I was like, that is not my vitamin. So, yeah, so that's where I'm I'm not firing at all.
- [59:03]
B
100% blame it on the vitamin.
- [59:05]
C
Yeah. But my credit to me is for myself and all the other parents that have to do commutes every morning and dropping the kids off, I'm up to about an hour and a half in the car.
- [59:15]
B
Wow.
- [59:15]
C
Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Monday. Every day but Tuesday was when I watch my two, my two youngest daughters.
- [59:22]
B
No, you're home with your two daughters.
- [59:23]
A
You don't watch.
- [59:24]
B
You don't watch them.
- [59:24]
C
Yeah, that's, that's a good point. Was it daddy daycare day? I say this is. I have to go from Fairport all the way into Irondaquite and then I have to drive then, which is about a 30 minute drive in the morning with traffic. I then go from a Rondaquit all the way out to Farmington, which is about 35 minutes on a good day. Back past my house with traffic, it turns into like 45 and there's construction now on 490, which is a brutal pain. It's right at my exit. And then I'm 25 minutes back from dropping my kids off at their daycare provider to then back home. So I leave the house at 7:30 in the morning to get Shane to school at 8 and I'm not back home until 9:15, 9:30.
- [60:08]
A
So there's a saying in Rochester if you live here that you're 15 minutes from everything unless you're Dan Fates.
- [60:14]
C
It's just so. Yeah, it's just. I'm catching up on podcasts.
- [60:19]
B
Like I was gonna say it's good podcast.
- [60:21]
C
Yeah. I am just digesting content. But it is. I get done and we have the ring and the one day I got out of the car and Renee's like, how was the drop off? And I was like, it's a lot. Like, this is, this is a lot. And you can see me get out of my car and go. When I finally pull in, like the audible sigh of like, yep, this is it. So yeah, that's my credit to me for all the parents that have to do all the drop offs and pickups and everything like that. It's I guess it's a credit to me.
- [60:48]
B
Yeah.
- [60:49]
C
And.
- [60:49]
B
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- [60:51]
A
All right. I'll go second. Or you can.
- [60:54]
B
Yeah, I don't mind. Well, go ahead. Okay. I interrupted you.
- [60:57]
A
Yeah.
- [60:58]
B
My credit to me is to my family and friends. I had my bridal shower this past weekend and it was so much fun. Julie, my future mother in law, did an amazing job throwing the party. It was great. Like, above and beyond. Food was banging, very tasty. But no, it was just, like, so lovely to see so many people in my life that are so meaningful. So, yeah, it was. It was a credit to Julie, my family, my friends, because it was such an amazing day. And we're now, like, we're. We're coming around the corner. We're close to wedding day. Well, close. Ish.
- [61:32]
C
So I gotta get that ordained ministry minister license.
- [61:36]
B
My friend Mal said it takes five.
- [61:37]
C
Minutes, so John do said it takes.
- [61:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. To get a lot of good stuff.
- [61:43]
B
People were very generous, which was very.
- [61:45]
C
I haven't got my thank you card yet.
- [61:47]
B
For what?
- [61:49]
C
The gift that Renee and I got you. Still waiting on that thank you card.
- [61:53]
B
The party was Saturday.
- [61:54]
C
I would have thought. I would have Monday. Would have thought Jenna would have been right on that. No, I thought Zach would.
- [62:00]
A
Yeah.
- [62:02]
B
Zach is the Excel spreadsheet king. All right, go ahead.
- [62:06]
A
All right. My credit to me is I am both mentally and physically ready to pay off the bet. It is time.
- [62:16]
B
Wow.
- [62:16]
A
I lost the bet. It's Pilates time, folks.
- [62:19]
B
Let's go.
- [62:21]
A
So we are going to set it up. We can set it up. We could do it this week, next week. We're going to do it soon. We're going to do it pre wedding. There is no question.
- [62:28]
B
I need to be in the gym.
- [62:30]
A
Yes. So it's Pilates now. I'm in it. I. You know, we talked about this before. It's on me. I finished last. I was a full game behind Dan and two games behind Jenna. They beat me fair and square. I have to pay it off. It's Pilates time. So I'm ready. I'm ready. You call your shot.
- [62:49]
B
Okay. All right, perfect. It's going to be bar as well. Barry.
- [62:52]
A
No, we didn't talk about any of that. I've never.
- [62:54]
B
It's the same thing.
- [62:55]
A
Yeah. No, no, no.
- [62:56]
B
It's the same thing.
- [63:00]
A
It's the bar after the Pilates. That's what we're doing.
- [63:03]
B
Oh, my God. No, that. Not that kind of bar.
- [63:05]
A
Oh, that's. That would be. That would make sense.
- [63:08]
B
All right, well, thank you, everyone so much for joining us here on Buffalo. Plus, for my Catalana and Dan Fates, I'm Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. Thank you so much for listening.
- [63:18]
C
Which group or player you think has the lowest floor, lowest ceiling? Highest floor, highest ceiling.
- [63:24]
A
Dion. Dion.
- [63:26]
B
Yeah. I make fun of Dan for not knowing how to say Dion film. What is it?
- [63:31]
C
Dion Walker.
- [63:32]
B
Nailed it. Proud of you.
- [63:34]
A
Try.
- [63:35]
B
Thanks for joining us here on Buffalo Plus. We'll catch you next time as Buffalo plus, presented by Connor's in Ferris.