THERAPY SESSION: What do the BILLS need to PROVE against the PANTHERS!?

Summary

Buffalo Plus Podcast: "THERAPY SESSION: What do the BILLS need to PROVE against the PANTHERS!?"

Date: October 24, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes
Podcast Theme: A deep-dive "therapy session" discussing Bills frustrations, standards, expectations for the Panthers game, post-bye week resets, and what Buffalo needs to prove as they approach a crucial stretch of the season.

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode is labeled a "therapy session," with the Buffalo Plus team venting and processing the Buffalo Bills' recent struggles. The group debates what the Bills need to show in the upcoming game against the Carolina Panthers—whether a simple win is enough or if a dominant performance is required for fans to regain faith. They break down positional concerns, coaching, player development, offensive predictability, and broader organizational issues. Listener comments fuel passionate discussion around standards, expectations, and what a "get right" game should look like, all delivered with the hosts' signature humor and candor.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. What's at Stake vs. the Panthers? Setting the Standard

• Initial Expectation: When the schedule was released, the Panthers game post-bye was seen as a guaranteed win ("That's cute. Oh, that's nice. Ah, that's a win. Moving on." —Jenna [01:17]), but now it's critical to avoid a three-game losing streak and "erase at least some of the mess of the last two weeks." —Dan [01:46]

• Dan's Rant: The Bills can't afford a "hindsight win"—they must dominate to show they're a championship-caliber team. "If they don't win by double digits in this game, I don't want to talk about playoffs...because you're no longer in that conversation." [04:36]

• Mike's Counter: Cautions that “style points” don’t prove playoff readiness. "You could win this game by three touchdowns and go get hammered by the Chiefs the next week and nobody's going to think of you any differently." [06:00]

• Jenna's Input: Emphasizes the importance of confidence and momentum. "I think that confidence and swagger is something that this team has been missing...I think it's important to get those wins and have them be dominant to show." [08:48]

• Consensus: While domination would be ideal, the baseline is playing smarter, reducing penalties, rediscovering identity, and simply looking like themselves post-bye.

  "If they play an A game and win by three, that's a problem." —Dan [17:08]

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2. Identity Crisis & The "Get Right" Game

• Recent Failings: Atlanta was supposed to be a "get right" game and the Bills "laid an egg," echoing the Patriots game. "Apparently they snoozed through that wakeup call." —Dan [00:00]/[09:17]
• What Needs Fixing: Hosts want to see improvements in basic execution: fewer penalties, disciplined defense, play-calling that leverages strengths.
• Post-Bye Reset: Emphasis on using the bye to address "core things on defense," smarter offense, and regaining physicality: "Start with the simple: tackle, run the ball, be the more physical team." —Mike [14:17]

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3. Defensive Line Reinforcements & Depth

• White Claw Grab of the Week [20:41]: Bills get Michael Hoyt and Larry Ogunjobi back after suspension.

• Expectations: Neither will be "saviors," but they should "raise the floor" of the defense and bring needed energy and depth.

• Fan Perspective: Their return is felt as a morale boost but not a solution to all defensive woes.

  "What they can be is raise the floor. That's what I think you're hoping for is to get a little bit of a boost... You're adding new juice, new energy to the locker room." —Dan [22:04]

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4. Draft & Roster Construction Critique

• Listener Question: Are Bean's bad draft picks and signings to blame? Some high draft picks injured or not impactful (Max, TJ Sanders, Landon Jackson).
• Host Take: The draft has not delivered supplemental top-end talent. The Bills largely rely on re-signing their core but lack replenishment.
• Pass-Catching Issues: Dalton Kincaid has improved as a receiver but isn't the balanced, in-line tight end sometimes needed—he's almost a "big wide receiver." This contributes to offensive predictability.

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5. Offensive Predictability: Dalton Kincaid & Personnel Usage

• Stat Breakdown: Kincaid is on the field ~47% of snaps; when he’s in, the Bills pass 78% of the time. This makes the offense predictable.

• Blocking Concerns: He's improved blocking on the perimeter (e.g., wide receiver screens) but isn't asked to block true DEs or lead run plays.

• Big Picture: Joe Brady (OC) gets some credit for leveraging strengths, but the lack of balance and predictability needs adjusting—both for immediate success and sustainable offense.

  "So you don't like Dalton because he's a tight end. You like him because of his wide receiver skillset." —Dan [33:38]

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6. On Coaching, Play-Calling, and Scheme

• Offensive Coordination: Joe Brady has faced criticism for getting "too cute" and not running enough or being too predictable with certain packages.

• Adjustment Required: It's a chess match, and Brady has to develop counters now that defense has tape on his tendencies.

• Physicality: Bills need to play "their brand"—run the ball, use play action, be more physical (especially in the offensive line).

  "They were not the more physical team against Atlanta or New England. They were reactionary." —Dan [38:14]

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7. Secondary/Safety Play Woes

• Fan Concerns: Safety play has been poor. The group expresses skepticism about both drafting and the reliance on veterans.
• Poyer Question: If performance doesn’t improve, try Poyer: "Screw it, see what Poyer can do." —Dan [41:54]
• Character vs. Talent: Some fans argue the Bills draft for character over talent; hosts push back, saying it comes down to making plays.

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8. Wide Receiver Issues & Trade Talk

• Keon Coleman's Development: Big play in Baltimore, little production since. Drawing PI flags, making clutch catches hasn't materialized.
• Possible Trade/Acquisition: Discussion of trading for a proven WR, like Chris Olave ("He'd be the number one receiver on the team, no question." —Mike [48:29]), and residual skepticism about elevating Gabe Davis, who "didn’t get open," especially post-injury.

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9. "Picasso’s Player of the Game" Predictions & Keys

• Jenna: Josh Allen – Focus on his discipline, leadership, and return to form post-bye. [51:03]
• Mike: James Cook – Wants him featured and to "let him cook," especially after underuse in Atlanta. [52:34]
• Dan: Ed Oliver – Looking for disruption on the interior D-line vs. Carolina's run attack. [54:21]

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10. Game Predictions & What Constitutes "Enough"

• Mike's Pick: Bills 23–17 (won’t cover, won’t meet Dan’s blowout standard) [55:13]
• Dan’s Ideal: Wants to see at least 30 points; expects/wants a convincing win, minimum double digits: "Bills win by double digits, 30 to 20." [55:26]
• Jenna: Bills by double digits, 27–17 [55:41]
• Chat Predicts: Ranged from 27–23 to 42–14, with 40+ point hopes and calls for "no punts" [56:05–56:29]
• Consensus: A loss would be cause for panic; close win would not restore belief or momentum. "Should we panic [if lose]? Yes." —Dan & Jenna [56:24]

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MEMORABLE QUOTES & TIMESTAMPS

• "This game is a must cover. This game is a must dominate. This game is a must look impressive for the Bills..." —Dan [04:36]
• "You can't really prove anything about being that team by blowing out the Panthers. …You need to win the game because you could win this game by three touchdowns and go get hammered by the Chiefs the next week and nobody's going to think of you any differently." —Mike [05:36/06:00]
• "Confidence and swagger is something that this team has been missing...be efficient, be able to execute, and to win a game in dominant fashion can do a lot for this team..." —Jenna [08:48]
• "If they play an A game and win by three, that’s a problem." —Dan [17:08]
• "You don't like Dalton because he's a tight end. You like him because of his wide receiver skill set." —Dan [33:38]
• "I want the Bills to play their A game because I don't think they've played their A game this year." —Dan [16:53]
• "We just haven't seen it. He's got 125 yards since the Baltimore game." —Dan on Keon Coleman [43:43]
• "They were not the more physical team against Atlanta or New England. They were reactionary." —Mike [38:14]
• "If the Bills lose to the Panthers, should we panic? Yes." —Dan, Jenna [56:24]

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OTHER NOTABLE MOMENTS & FAN INTERACTION

• Fan Engagement: Hosts actively read and debate live chat comments, including taking sides in the Dan vs. Mike blowout argument, discussing draft/culture complaints, and fielding questions about player usage and upcoming trades.
• Humor, Running Gags, and Banter: The show kept a light, conversational tone, with laughs about t-shirt gifts (the infamous “Ford Theater, one star” Abe Lincoln shirt) [61:04]. There were also fun stories about lost-and-found cash at home, credit to family members, and gratitude for fan encounters.
• Shoutouts: Mike gives special mention to several fans, families, and even McDonald’s employees who support the show [57:10–58:01].
• Meta Themes: "Therapy" vibe is consistent—hosts and fans vent frustration, but with humor, commiseration, and an underlying sense of community.

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STRUCTURE OF THE EPISODE

• 00:00–01:17: Opening comments/frustrations; setting the “therapy session” tone
• 01:17–09:17: What the Panthers game means; the team standard, blowout vs. 'just win' debate
• 09:17–16:00: What “getting right” looks like; post-bye expectations; importance of momentum
• 16:00–23:00: Defensive reinforcements; White Claw Grab of the Week; depth talk
• 23:00–29:00: Draft class issues; Kincaid deep-dive; offensive predictability
• 29:00–38:00: Offensive play-calling; run/pass balance; identity crisis
• 38:00–43:00: Safety issues, trade talk, defensive struggles
• 43:00–47:00: Receivers, Keon Coleman, Gabe Davis, WR urgency
• 47:00–50:00: Fan predictions, more WR trade hypotheticals
• 50:00–56:00: Picasso Player of the Game selections; score predictions
• 56:00–62:00: Fun, stories, community, lost money anecdote, shirt gifts
• 62:00–End: Final thoughts, future live pod promotion, and thank-yous

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USEFUL FOR LISTENERS WHO MISSED THE EPISODE BECAUSE:

• You get both the temperature and the substance—what’s wrong with the Bills, what the fans/hosts expect, what would and wouldn’t be 'enough' from Carolina.
• Several detailed, statistical, and narrative breakdowns of key play-calling and personnel use issues (Kincaid, Cook).
• Clear sense of how this Panthers game is perceived as a tipping point not just for the standings, but for team culture and fan confidence.
• Entertaining inside jokes, banter, and “therapy” moments keep it highly listenable.

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TL;DR

If the Bills are serious about being contenders, this Panthers game must be more than a win—it needs to be convincing, disciplined, and a reset in every facet. Win ugly and doubts remain; dominate, and the belief can begin to rebuild. The episode, blending stats and passion, sets the emotional and strategic stakes for the most pivotal “get right” game yet.

Transcript

[A]

Reading the comments build some momentum. The Panthers should be a get right game. Just like how we thought that Atlanta should have been a get right game. And they laid an egg. They got punched in the mouth by the Patriots. Played the Patriots game and they said it was a wake up call. Well, apparently they snoozed through that wakeup call and laid another egg in Atlanta. I want to see things start to go in the right direction. The end.

[B]

That was good.

[A]

Thank you. Now from the Connors and Ferris podcast studio, this is the Buffalo plus podcast.

[B]

Hello and welcome into Buffalo Plus. We're here in the Connors and Ferris podcast studio. Mike Catalana, Dan Fates, I am Jenna Cotrell. Please be sure to like comment, subscribe and and share. Please be sure to send in your comments where you're watching from. We want to hear from you. Dan called this a therapy chat. I believe was therapy session. Therapy session was the words that he.

[C]

Venting is another word.

[B]

Venting. But we're going to talk about as well this Bill's game heading in, what they're going to do against the Panthers. The keys to this game. We're going to have some fun with it. Our picks, predictions, you know, but first.

[A]

Off, Picasso's white claw.

[B]

Yeah. All the good stuff.

[A]

Connors and Ferris podcast studio.

[B]

All the good stuff. But first, I think we have to acknowledge that when the schedule first came out, Mike, it was like, oh, the Panthers out of the buy. That's cute. Oh, that's nice. Ah, that's a win. Moving on. Now, as we're coming out of the buy, it is like, okay, this is a big game for the Bills.

[C]

Let's start with this. Jenna picked this game because she'd never been to Charlotte for a game and she wanted to check out the food in Charlotte. Yeah, right. It was. That's the way you looked at that game.

[B]

Genuinely. Yeah.

[C]

It's an NFC team in the NFC south that you don't ever see. So when they talk about division games being like two and conference games being very important, this one should be really low on the list. Right. Should, should be of the other regular season games. Except now it's a vital game. It is important. It's avoiding a three game losing streak. It is getting back to what has made this team good. Yeah. And it's trying to erase at least some of the mess of the last two weeks. Now before we're setting up the chef to cook.

[B]

Before we got on here, Dan was saying how he needed, he needed to have a moment, he needed to talk it out. So Dan, the floor is yours. And our amazing director, Rusty, why don't you take. Yeah, we'll take one shot.

[A]

We'll take a one shot.

[C]

Man.

[A]

I've rehearsed this. I feel like in the mirror.

[C]

So now you just.

[A]

It's like that meme where it's the guy in the mirror and it's like you got to figure, you got to nail this. This game is not a must win for the Bills. This game is a must cover. This game is a must dominate. This game is a must look impressive for the Bills because of the circumstances in the scenario at which they are. If this was a game where they lost two in a row and you're going to Carolina, maybe on a short week after the Falcons game, I would sit here and I'd say, hey, just get the win and get out of here. It's an NFC team like Mike said, that's not the case. This is a team that has had super bowl aspirations, super bowl goals. It is championship caliber is painted all over the building. If you really want to be a championship caliber team and prove that you have fixed things out of this buy this is a game you should dominate. And I don't want to see some 23 to 20 win and say hey, they won, it's fine, the winning streak is snapped. No, if they don't win by double digits in this game, I don't want to talk about playoffs, I don't want to talk about championships, I don't want to talk about a one seed or anything like that because you're no longer in that conversation. The Bills have had a average start at best to their season. They got by some games they shouldn't have and we all brushed it aside as hey, you won the games, that's all that's matter. Mike calls them hindsight wins. This one can't be a hindsight win. This needs to be a game where they put themselves back in the consideration of hey, the Bills figured some things out during the buy the Bills and we're going to talk here and want to hear your comments about hey, Panthers are. They've won three in a row. Hey, the Panthers, they're not bad. Bullshit. They're the Carolina Panthers and you're the Buffalo Bills and you'll have Josh Allen and if you want to be a real team that we can talk about home field advantage in the playoffs and and what this magical season could be. It starts by coming out and punching the Carolina Panthers in the mouth and proving that you have a better coach, a better quarterback, a Better team, a better philosophy and a satisfactory defense. You don't need to be a great defense in this one, but you need to come out and win by double digits. If this is some 33 to 30 win and Prater has hit some field goal at the end. I don't want to talk playoffs because that's where you need to be to show like we're in week eight. This isn't week three. Figure things out. Show me that you have figured things out on this bi week and win the game convincingly. The end.

[B]

That was good.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Yeah. I mean it's, it's wrong, but it was good.

[B]

Oh my gosh, Michael. What? Also max Herzog saying 100% spot on take. The Bills are not a dangerous team.

[C]

That I agree with. I'm saying is you can't really prove anything about being that team by blowing out the Panthers.

[A]

You can prove that you're a good playoff caliber team if you squeak by the Panthers. I don't want to talk about anything else.

[C]

That's fine. It's. Their playoffs aren't here yet. It's. You have to win the games. I'm saying to you is. I really think. Yes, I think the Bills should be considerably better than the Panthers and they should be able to handle them. They need to win the game because you could win this game by three touchdowns and go get hammered by the Chiefs the next week and nobody's going to think of you any differently. They're going to think of you even less because you say, oh, you can beat the Panthers but you can't do this.

[A]

I still want to beat the Panthers by three touchdowns. That's great because what is rusty? Another one shot. I'm not done.

[B]

Oh, the standard. That was nice.

[A]

What is the standard, Mike? If we're saying just beat the Panthers, just get out of Carolina with a win.

[C]

It.

[A]

The standard is beating teams soundly is by putting up 30 points against bad teams. The Panthers are a bad team. Yes. Do I think they have some decent pieces? Do I think they're playing frisky and that they're not the worst team in the league and not going to get the number one overall pick? Yes. They're the Carolina freaking Panthers. And I'm not going to sit here and act like, hey, this is a really tough matchup for the Bill.

[C]

I'm not saying that it's a tough matchup. I'm saying is there's. You can't prove anything about what you're going to do in the playoffs against the Panthers. This Week, you just got to play better, play smarter, win the game and then go against a top team the next.

[A]

I'm not saying that them winning all of a sudden makes me feel like they're super bowl contenders or that they're in better shape. It proves to me that they're on the right track. Because if you squeak by again, what are you.

[B]

I, I agree with that. I really do. Because I think if the Bills were to lose this game, where would your confidence be? If the Bills win this game by three points, where would your confidence be in this team? I don't think it would be a. I think it would be normal.

[C]

Game by three. If they win the game, here's my point is I, I don't disagree that it would be nice to see them play more like themselves. I think that's more of my point. I want to see this team get back to their identity. Play smarter on offense, stop taking the dumb penalties, more disciplined on defense, be the clearly better team. Whether you win the game by six, whether 16, it just is like you look and you go, okay, they look more like themselves. Carolina made a couple of plays, whatever. Now get ready for Kansas City. If you go play the Panthers and Andy Dalton just looks like an old man and you win the game by 27 to 13 and you don't play great, yes, you cover.

[B]

But what if you do play great?

[C]

That would be great. It would be great. I think it would make people feel better a little bit in October, but it really.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think it definitely. That's great. We always talk about how this is.

[C]

A week to week league you're saying is feeling better and everybody feeling more confident doesn't put a point on the board against a good team the next week. That's when they're going to be able to prove that.

[B]

I disagree with that though, because I think that confidence and swagger is something that this team has been missing. And when you're barely squeaking out wins and when you've lost the last two weeks, I think it's important to get those wins and have them be dominant to show. Yeah, you're right. Are the, the Carolina Panthers, the Kansas City Chiefs? No. But to be efficient and to be able to execute and to be able to win a game in dominant fashion, I think can do a lot for this team and their confidence level. And that I think is really important. When you head into. To play the Chiefs, that.

[A]

That's exactly it. And that's my point is that I'm not going to sit here and if they win by 30 points, go super Bowls. Super Bowls on track. But if they win by 30 and then the Chiefs are a better team than the Bills are right now and if they lose by three but start to get things going the right direction. Reading the comments Build some momentum. The Panthers should be a get right game just like how we thought that Atlanta should have been a get right game. And they laid an egg. They got punched in the mouth by the Patriots. Played the Patriots game and they said it was a wake up call. Well, apparently they snoozed through that wake up call and laid another egg in Atlanta. I want to see things start to go in the right direction. Mike, I understand what you're saying is that beating Carolina by 30 points isn't going to prove that you are a Super bowl contender team contending team. Agreed. That's proven against better teams. But I will have no faith against the actual better teams if you're not beating the teams that you should beat by 20 by 20 points.

[C]

I, I don't think we're that far off in this. Adrian says let's just focus on getting our wheels out of the mud. Get some momentum going into the Kansas City game on a good note. That's the guess the way I'm looking at it. I'm looking at them just being b. No, no, I, I, I'm, I'm, do not disagree with me. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying is you're thinking of it. I think I'm getting the impression you're thinking of it. Be the dominant team and win. That would be great. Like I'm not against them being dominant in the game. I, I need this, I need this team to start looking like the Buffalo Bill Bills. That doesn't necessarily have to be dominant. They're a ways away from dominant. That defense ain't going to be dominant against anybody. I just need them to be better. I need Josh to get back to being Josh. I need Joe Brady to start calling plays like Joe Brady. I need them to use the guy they have in the backfield. And if that means they win this game 23 to 17 and they're better than them and it builds into Kansas City, then I'm happy with that. Well, first of all, you got to win the game. Like all those things you talk about, if you eventually figure it out and you're sitting there lugging a loss to the Carolina Panthers like you already had one with the Falcons, that will really hurt you. I guess I'm just saying Is it happens to be that the Chiefs are the next week.

[A]

I think we're seeing the same thing. I'm just saying it with my chest, like, like, I'm saying it with, with, with some gusto. And you're like, yeah, like get things going. I agree with all those things. All those things that you said about getting Josh on track. The defense looking average. Get it to look average.

[C]

Yeah, they gotta look.

[A]

Get it to look. Get Josh to look like Josh Allen again. All those things. I think if you do those things, Mike, you win by 25.

[B]

I think if you, if you do those things, you at least win by. By seven.

[C]

That. That's what I'm saying.

[A]

That's. That's where it gets to the must cover. Like, I, I don't want to see this as a game that we go out there and say, hey, they won, but you know, they had some penalties. That's what I'm saying. I'm sick of those games. And th. Those games that the Bills win are what the Arizona Cardinals win. Those are the games that, those middle of the road teams, the Chicago Bears also, that I don't.

[C]

Last year's Kansas City Chiefs. But the biggest difference was that team had been to two Super Bowls. Correct. So they got away with it last year.

[A]

And that's what I'm saying is that like, that's where the standard, the caliber of play, the expectations, I don't think they should change now and if anything, they should ramp up to what that standard and expectations are that, that we had in before week one. Like, we sat there and I we went into that Ravens game going, they got to look good, but this is a bad matchup at some times and you get the win.

[C]

Look at last year when they lost the two in a row and then they beat the jets and it was Aaron Rogers and all. But that wasn't a great jets team and they beat.

[A]

Wasn't off a buy.

[C]

Oh, yes, the buy plays into it.

[A]

The buy massively plays. Sean's eight. No off a buy.

[C]

It is.

[A]

He's five, two and one buy is.

[C]

A really interesting one because you're adding players at the buy, which is an.

[A]

But it's not that. It's like this was the time to catch your breath, reset, refocus all of the things that they have said like, you know, oh, is the bye week come at a good time or a bad time? Well, you'd love to play the next day, like, but this isn't baseball. You can't get beat by 10 and then you're out the next you know, you're not playing the next day at 1 o'. Clock. Like all of these things. I want to see that things were addressed, that things were fixed to your point. You asked Sean about the penalties. He said they shined a spotlight on it. They addressed.

[C]

I want to see all that be better.

[A]

That's.

[C]

That's an easy fix for them.

[A]

And like I said, this is so much more of a game where I look at it and I go, if the Bills do what they should do, they win by 14. Like, that's where I'm not even worried about the opponent. I'm worried about you controlling. Like, we sit there and we can analyze and say we go down for a long time.

[C]

I don't think it's. I'm that far off from which I.

[A]

Don'T think so either. I'm just saying it with passion.

[C]

I guess I'm feeling like this team needs this reset to start looking like themselves before we worry about, you know, getting style points. Yeah, there's a lot of basic things that the Bills usually do that they have not done. Yeah, too many penalties, not the play calling has been bad. The core things on defense have been bad. Let's start with the simple tackle, run the ball, be the more physical team. And then I think, like you said, I think the results will follow. I think that would be the case.

[B]

That's why I feel like baked into the standard is just the elevation of play and what that would do for the entire team. Defensively, better tackling, offensively, better decision making, not turning over the football like we know that's been the recipe for this team in the past. So that's why I do think that this could be a really nice boost if the Bills come out of the buy like Dan talked about. Refreshed refocus. Like looking at this as, I mean, I remember looking, I'm like, oh, the Bills have an early buy. Like, oh, interesting. And then now I'm like, the buy really did come at a great time for this team because I think they needed to have the week to really assess what has gone wrong for them, where they can change because there are obvious ways for this team to improve.

[A]

Some great comments keep them coming in. Really appreciate it. This one to be like this therapy session. The best comment I see though is right now is From I am tired 9350 Mike's take is awful. I'm with Dan. Could not agree more. All of those kind of things. Lots of comments about Mike's take is awful. It's so refreshing to read the comments and the people that have my back really appreciate it. Keep the comments coming. I'll read all of the bad mic takes.

[C]

So when I do think it makes everybody feel better when a team wins a game by a substantial amount of points.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

But we have seen a lot of times when I say it's a week to week league, it also means this is where you can't look at this and go, wait a minute, this team beat the Atlanta Falcons 30 to nothing. And the Bills were dominated by them at least for half of the game. Week to week, different games, different times, all these things.

[B]

Context matters.

[A]

This is a good. Yeah, good point from Randy here says, how about this for Dan? You can't show that you were that team with a win this week, but you can show that you aren't that team.

[B]

Ooh, I like that.

[C]

That's what I said. They have to get back to their norm. They, they are so far below their own standard, they just have to play. This is my next step. I ain't worried about the blowout. Just go be the better team on the road, win the game and get to Kansas City.

[A]

But Mike, I'll say this. If they do all of those things and still win by three, that's another massive concern for me because that means you're playing. I want the Bills. Long story short, to simplify my rant down is that I want the Bills to play the Ray game because I don't think they've played their A game this year.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And so if they play an A game and win by three, that's a problem.

[C]

That is a problem. So that's where, that's where consider that their aame. Like we would just say, well, I'm.

[A]

Just saying to, to get back to their identity, to better play, calling defense, all those things because we said like they played their B minus game against the Saints and still won by 11. Like we're sitting there like, hey, it's pretty good when you're. But I want to see in the playoffs you need to have the best. And I know we're a ways away from the playoffs, but that is the standard that this team is talked about. That is the standard, that is the goalpost that has been moved to this point for this team. So to sit there and say I want to see your A game and I guarantee, or I at least, God, I hope that your A game is good enough to win by 10 points against the Carolina freaking Panthers.

[C]

We haven't seen what's the Best game they played the Jets.

[B]

The game you almost have to take.

[C]

Take that one out.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

Best game against the NFL team that they've played.

[B]

I do feel it.

[A]

Haven't played many NFL teams.

[C]

They've lost to the two I do feel really have. Right. Well, they beat Baltimore at the time.

[A]

Like, Baltimore is still a good win.

[C]

It is a good win.

[A]

Like it is.

[C]

That is the Lamar being Lamar.

[A]

That was the epitome of you. It's not who you play, it's when you play them.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That was still the Ravens. That was still the Ravens whence Lamar went out. They were not the same team.

[B]

No, that's fair. Well, I think even we talked about, though, in the wins against the Saints and other teams when the Bills did win and the scores didn't look as bad, like, watching the game and being in the games, you're like, oh, there's considerable things that could snag them up in other games. And with them losing these last two weeks, it's like, these are the exact things that we would talk about. And then it plays out and you see how the results can fall. When it's like, oh, remember when we talked about they're not being receivers to get open or they're struggling to move the ball, and then you see it all come together in a negative way for this team.

[C]

So we sat in the Dolphins game and the Saints game after that, and for the majority of both of those games, the Bills did not look like a better team or substantially better. Yeah, that's concerning. I do think they have more talent than that. I think they need. That's why they needed this reset. Let's just see. Let's see how they start. Let's see how they perform. Let's see how they tackle in a game. Yeah, that. That's the part. I. I guess I'm just thinking, like, my golf swing has been a mess. Like, I got eight things to work on in my golf game. I just want to hit the ball in the fairway.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

They haven't been hitting the ball in the fairway.

[B]

No. Yeah.

[A]

Hey, that's your best analogy. You've had this so far. This. This pot.

[C]

Well, thank you.

[B]

I think that's his first. We're giving some credit. Okay.

[A]

Lots of good comments.

[B]

Lots of great comments. We're gonna talk also about what went down on the bye week in terms of new players being added back to this roster. So we're gonna do the White Claw grab of the week.

[C]

All right.

[B]

White Claw reminds you to grab life by the claw. We are here to bring you the grab of the week. Game day isn't just about the plays. It's about your crew, the stories and the moments you never for forget. That's why white claw. Well, that's what white claw. White claw is made for. Crisp, refreshing, and always shareable. Grab your crew. Grab a pack. Grab life by the claw.

[C]

I know he's gonna look at Daniel.

[A]

Look at this. Look at this delicious black cherry. That's my three carbs, 170 calories. Yeah, we like made pure.

[B]

Made pure black cherry grab life.

[A]

We had live show. We had some claws.

[B]

Yeah, they were good. Okay, so the white claw grab of the week. So we kind of set this up because obviously they didn't play last week. But the grab is grabbing the guys that are back after their suspensions. Michael Hoyt, Larry Ogan Joby, the two defensive linemen. Six games they were out due to violating the league's substance policy. Yeah, performance enhancing substance policy. We got there. What do you think, Mike? They can add to this defense?

[C]

The bar's low for defensive tackle because they just. They lost bodies. Like, Daquan's out. So, I mean, Larry Ogan Joby's playing in this game. He'll get a decent amount of snaps in the game. He's a veteran. He's been around. Like, if you had him from the beginning, we'd know a little bit more of how he's going to fit. But Larry's been around as, like, he told us, you know, I played on a Super bowl team and I played on an Owen 16 team.

[A]

Yeah, we thought that was the Lions.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

I was right about the Browns, but that was because, like, that was Dan Orlovsky. I was like, he's been on the league for a while. How old's Larry? For a second, I had to do that, that take.

[C]

And Michael Hoyt played on a good Rams team and has had flashes. He had one really good year. And. But they need pass rush, but I mean. Yeah, so these guys are stepping right in. They're gonna play right away.

[A]

See, Mike just doesn't let us interrupt.

[B]

Like, that's.

[A]

That's his superpower. That's his superpowers. He just talks through the interruption.

[B]

Yeah, Powers, but you.

[A]

You made the point too, about the defense. Like, I don't think Hoyt or Ogun Joby are going to be saviors for this defense. What they can be is raise the floor. That's what I think you're hoping for is to get a little bit of a boost, and we kind of talked about it earlier was just the fact of getting these players feels in a sense like trade deadline acquisitions that kind of galvanize locker room. Dion Dawkins talked about it today that it's like you're getting your boys in the club, like nobody's partying, and all of a sudden these guys come in and now it's. Now the party's gonna pop off. I like that vibe because it's. You're adding new juice, new energy to the locker room. I think that's what these guys can bring.

[B]

I do. I think it can be a morale boost. Truly and can't.

[C]

No, go ahead. No, no, no.

[B]

And also, these are veterans. Like, these are not practice squad guys. These are not rookies. Like, these are guys that have had meaningful snaps in the NFL. So when you have players like that coming in, I think it helps alleviate some of the fresh.

[C]

What, What Michael, Dan's superpower is me saying, these guys got to play because there's nobody there. Like, they need this tackle because they don't have a tackle. They need a pass rusher because they're drafting. They're. They're playing Landon Jackson in the game and he's done nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then Dan says, I just want to let everybody know these guys are not going to be saviors. I never said they were going to be saviors.

[A]

No, I don't think I agreed with what you said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I, that I agree that I think some people are like, oh, here comes the help.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, they will. There's help and then there's. He's gaslighting me.

[B]

Okay. There's a comment.

[A]

Man of war.

[B]

Man of war, saying, do you guys.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Do you guys believe that Bean's bad? Draft picks and bad sightings are the reasons for the Bill's predicament.

[A]

It's part of it.

[B]

Man of war. That was. You got your money's worth there, kid. Mike, what do you think?

[C]

He's had a bad year. Now, in fairness to Bean, the people he brought in, even knowing one was suspended and the other one, they. They signed with a three year deal, we haven't seen them. So you need defensive help. It is. It's nice to have this in your pocket.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

You would have liked to have had him from the beginning of the year. I'm trying to spin that to at least the positive or we haven't seen what these players can do. Then you draft a bunch of players on defense and what do we always talk about on the Draft. It's addressing a need. It doesn't mean you fill a need. So you don't know. We don't know what Max is going to be. I, I think we all believe Max isn't playing. Certainly isn't playing Sunday.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

Maybe the next week. Maybe it's more likely after that. So we haven't seen it. The second round picks hurt. The.

[B]

Is it third?

[A]

First round pick was hurt. Max. The second round pick, TJ Sanders. Third round pick Landon Jackson can't get on the field.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dion Walker has been awesome.

[C]

Very good. Dorian strong was okay. But he's hurt. Yep. And now they're just getting six round pick Jordan Hancock. Jordan Hancock at least into the, you know, he'll maybe to play. So in that case you address those needs and those guys just haven't been on the field. I don't even know outside of Walker how many defensive snaps Dorian did. Yeah, a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And TJ Some Sanders, but not a lot. So there's been very Jackson Hawes offensively. Jackson Hall's right behind. I think Walker's been even more impactful recently, certainly.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So I'd say that. But you know, he went with a lot of veterans brought in. Joey Bosa. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Josh Palmer. I think you still, even with the injury, you wish you would have had more.

[C]

Yeah. No. You paid a lot of money for Palmer. You paid a lot of money for Curtis Samuel. Those guys have not delivered.

[A]

A couple comments here. I know we're zigzagging a little bit, but I do we do want to engage the chat more this week. Somebody said both our OC and DC are subpar. If we're lucky, some desperate team will take Brady off of our hands. That was by dto, Layla. I don't think Joe Brady is some subpar offensive coordinator all of a sudden. I don't think, I think coordinators, like players can have walls, they can have bad stretches. Eagles example for you, Mike. Give it to me. Kellen Moore last year was awful for four weeks.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they just decided, hey, you know what? Our identity is running the football. And they were.

[C]

The only difference would be is he was new to the team, whereas Joe's been there. And that's where I think Joe just got a little cute. Yeah.

[B]

I love the Too cute. I just, I, I, I shouldn't say I love it. I just, I think it's really funny then football, you're like, yeah, especially when.

[C]

Sean McDermott says it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like he didn't like cute for any of that. So that's the only difference I see with. It's Joe Brady. Basically the whole offense is back right out Josh Palmer for, for. From Matt Collins.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So they had them all back. That's what, that's why I feel better about the offense getting back on track, at least to what they were. I love chat.

[A]

Why somebody said Michael Z. Call Bill Polian up. He always knew how to draft. He also thought Lamar Jackson should be a wide receiver.

[C]

He did build three teams and take them all to the NFC Championship, the Super Bowl. And then he, he really whiffed on that.

[A]

He really whiffed. So like the NFL has changed like. So like this what you hold in your head the past I think is a little bit.

[C]

But to the point they need to draft better.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

The draft has not delivered for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you know, now you start saying is Dalton Kincaid good player? Yeah, they need more. Hopefully he's healthy for this week. Not enough out of Keon. Like these are guys. This is where you pay for this. It's the years going forward.

[A]

It.

[C]

If it's not working for draft picks like they had that core group and they're all good players and they re sign them all, that's great. But for the most part they're not replenishing the roster with top end players that they've gotten in the draft. So that has hurt them along with the injuries for this off season. I mean they're relying on Matt Milano and Trey White and Jordan Poyer.

[B]

Yeah, right. No, it's.

[A]

I mean I would take Lamar as a receiver on this team. That's a great comment. Jason. Jason, I love that comment. That might be the comment. I take Ernie Clement as a corner if you guys, you know, Blue Jays fans out there.

[B]

Okay. You mentioned the draft picks.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Dan also wanted. I know Dalton Kincaid is something that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You wanted to bring up as well.

[A]

Yeah. I think there's been a lot of discussion around Duncan Gate. I think we were critical of him over the last two years, especially this off season, like needing him to step up to be that guy. And he's had a. He's had the best start to a season in his career. I know the rookie year they kind of people thought eased him along his depth of target. Some of those analytics stuff, we get caught up, I think so much in everybody that has the all 22 now can say, well this guy needs to play more. Things like that. Like Dalton Kincaid now is. He's the Bill's best pass catcher.

[B]

I always would say Shakir.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean but Maybe that's more reputation from last season.

[A]

You know, the thing is, is that Kincaid has not been on the field much. We kind of had this conversation about James Cook last year where it's like, well, you're not using James enough. He was under 50%. Kincaid's snap count this year is like 47%. He's not on the field. And I know part of that has to do with the recent injury, but there's the talk about Duncan Cade is a better blocker, and that's just not 100% accurate when it comes to terms of blocking as a tight end, as a George Kittle, as a Tyler Croft.

[C]

To go along with your point, if he really was a more effective blocker, he would be on the field more.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So has he been better at blocking, wide receiver screens?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

In terms of a wide receiver standard for blocking, he's been better. But the Bills, I give the Bills in Joe Brady credit, your job as a coach is to put players in the best cases to best situations to be successful. Like when I look at plays and I see a. A defensive end blow up a play and get a sack, and you're like, well, what happened? And you're like, well, the play was designed for a tight end to block Max Crosby. It's like, well, that was a flawed play design. The numbers on Dalton Kincaid are staggering in terms of when he's on the field, it is a pass play. Like, it doesn't take a guru, some defensive analytic guru to figure that out. He played 44 snaps. In the Baltimore game. They ran the ball five times. Now, that game did get away from them, and they had to throw a lot in the fourth quarter. So that's part of it. Okay. In the jets game, again, they were ahead more. So he did 37 snaps on the field, 12 run plays. Okay, so again, we're. If he's on the field, we're not really running. The Bills aren't really running the ball. The Dolphins game, 33 snaps, 10 run plays. Saints, 22 snaps, 2 run plays. Against the Patriots, Again, these were closer games. So it's not like you're just running the ball. Like you have to be a balanced offense. 39 snaps in the Patriots game, 10 run plays. So he has been on the field for around 175 snaps, and the Bills have only run the ball 39 times. That is 22% of the time that Dalton Kincaid is on the field. They are running the ball. That is predictable.

[B]

That means 88. 88. Yeah.

[A]

Nope. That's 110. 78% of the time. 78% of the time they're passing.

[C]

I. No, no, I'm not disagreeing with you. I was reading a comment, but I heard you starting to do math and it scared me a little bit.

[A]

88 would be 110.

[B]

Yeah, no, you're right. It's. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So 78% of the time they're passing. That's predictability.

[B]

We got there.

[A]

And what Sean. And the identity of what this team is and what they want to do is to be balanced, is to keep. To be. What does they always say? Two dimensional, right?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Unfortunately, Dalton is not that conventional tight end that can line up in line and block lineman.

[C]

There's some funny comments on here.

[A]

Let me just, just let me finish up just real quick like. So while Dalton is absolutely having his best year and you can say he's doing so many better things as a tight end, the things that he's doing well as a tight end are wide receiver things. So you don't like Dalton because he's a tight end. You like him because of his wide receiver skill set. And at that point, that's where you kind of have this dynamic where Jackson Hawes is still getting a good number of snaps. Dawson Knox is still a. Is a better run blocker. That's why he's on the field more. So that's where it's tough for the Bills to say we'll put Dalton on the field more. Well, then you can't run the ball as well. And you are not. And I'm not saying what is your Brady, like run the ball with Dalton out there. Like, then you're setting him up to fail because that's not his strength. So I appreciate it. Like credit Joe Brady for the fact of you're putting your guys in position to run the ball well, but the numbers don't lie that when he's on the field 78% of the time, that's predictability, which is something that you don't want defenses to understand.

[C]

Off of that, there's a comment I want both you guys to comment on this. Tag man says 777k was a first round pick because Bean said he was the best pass catcher available. Start using him as such.

[B]

It was also on his draft report that he was a horrendous blocker.

[C]

And also he's a tight end and he was sold as a pass catching almost as a wide receiver, a mismatch. He has not been any of those things. He's a good player, but in that case, and to Dan's point, in that role where you're asking the tight end to do multiple things, he does not excel at one part of that. He's passable at best.

[A]

Correct. And like I said, he's had better blocks on the Shakira screen. Touchdown pass in week three, I think it was. He's had some better blocks on the outside, but he's blocking corners and safeties. He's not being asked to dig out linebackers to lead the way for James Cook, like a George Kittle or, you know, Mark Andrews or some of these guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So you like. We like what we've seen out of Kincaid this year, but it's not in the tight end realm at what you like him as. You like him as the pass catcher, which is also an indictment on the Bill's wide receiving core. So it's a. There's more to dive into it than just saying, put Kincaid on the field more. When what the Bills want to do and what their real identity is, and Joe Brady helped figure that. Is run the ball is to be aggressive, be physical at the line of scrimmage. That's not Dalton. So. So to sit there and say use your player more isn't fitting with what your scheme is. And maybe that's part of the identity that they're still trying to figure out was how can we still be physical and run the ball while also getting Dalton Kincaid involved in the offense more. That's a tough balance. So to sit there and say, well, Dton is such a better blocker this year. They're not really asking him to do anything. And the numbers say they really don't run the ball with him out there to judge him as a blocker.

[C]

You referenced before you were talking about things. We're raising a floor. Right. That's what I think he's done. He's been a little better at some of that down the field. That is very different than setting up the block. The other question I wanted to ask you guys, and as much as Hawes has been a very good blocker in that case. The Bills used to run six offensive linemen with Anderson way more often than they do this year. And they were, I think, a more successful run team. And I'm not saying Hawes hasn't been a very good blocker.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I wonder if we start seeing more of a sixth offensive lineman at times, too.

[B]

I mean, we've seen them go to that.

[C]

Yeah. Not as much as it was certainly in the past.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I think it starts with them getting. Getting James Cook going, it does. Putting the ball in his hands more often. Throwing him the ball, too. This one always frustrates me. I get the idea of Cook obvious passing situations. Third down. Think Ty is a better pass protector. Well, is there a rule that says you can't throw to James Cook on first or second down?

[A]

Nope.

[C]

Play action to James. Get it to him in the flat. Let him.

[B]

It's.

[C]

This is. These are. These are things to accentuate to Dan's point. Put a guy in a good position to succeed and have more targets go there.

[A]

It's also about doing the simple things and making them look complex. Like, that is where I think there needs to be a little bit more nuance. Again. Now there's more stuff on Joe Brady, on what he's done. So now it's that cat and mouse game where now Brady's got to make his adjustments. It's the baseball analogy. A hitter comes into the mlb, he hits a ton of fastballs.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

People think that you can overpower him with an MLB fastball. He hits six home runs in the first month, and then he doesn't see a fastball again. Well, either that hitter adjusts and learns how to hit off speed pitches, or he doesn't make it in the MLB Y. So that is where the Joe Brady adjustment has to be.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think that's.

[C]

I think definitely with you.

[B]

We'll see if he plays this week and what Joe Brady will do just to kind of implement and make. Do you think you'll see Joe Brady running the ball more? Like, do you think he'll make those concerted changes? Yeah, I think you got to think so.

[C]

I mean, Sean has not backed away from what he's wanted and what has disappointed him. Yeah. I also think it helps the O line a little bit, too.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

They've been backing up pass blocking a lot, and I. I think they need to. Dan's point, too. We talked about they were not the more physical team against Atlanta or New England.

[A]

They were reactionary.

[C]

Reactionary.

[A]

The defenses in both those games were dictating what the Bill's offense could do. It was a more defensive offense. Like they. They were on the defense, and instead of dictating the play, the style that you wanted to play, they said the Patriots played. We played the game the Patriots wanted us to play. I think they got away from it in Atlanta. I hope that this was a come to Jesus bye week where they sat down and said, what do we do? Well, offensive line, Dion, what do you want to run. That's what, you know, that's what they always said. Dable was very receptive to Brady. The same way they say, like, those are the guys. That's what the Eagles did last year. The offensive line got together and we're.

[C]

Like, dude, we gotta run the ball.

[A]

We gotta run the ball. So, like little things like that and I go running the ball will make things better on Josh. The play action. Well, all those things will help Josh and this offense and those wide receivers.

[C]

You know what really works is Josh under center. Play action to Cook, throw the ball down the field.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And.

[C]

And I know that has not been a strength for them, but you look at the numbers around the league, quarterback under center, you don't even. Most of those teams don't even have. Some of them don't even have great running games. There is something about that play action with the way teams have adjusted play action. And a lot of quarterbacks aren't comfortable going under center. Josh is comfortable under center.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And doing that and that, you know, we. It used to be run the ball, run the ball to set up the passing game. The passing game can set up the run game too, but you have to commit to it. And I just think James Cook proved to this team that he's more than just a two down back in terms of getting him the ball more often. So I was gonna read this one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. There's a good question in a couple comments at Michael Z saying, what do you guys think they could do at safety or. Or will they do anything significant at safety before the trade deadline? Bill's camp asking, but how do you fix the safety play?

[A]

Michael Z also has a little crown next to his. His.

[B]

I don't know what that means.

[A]

Maybe he's a big fan.

[B]

Super commenter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[B]

Patrick saying, do we have any ping pong tables in the locker room that can be removed?

[A]

I like that there is a ping pong table. It's still there because.

[C]

Who is it? The Ravens.

[A]

Ravens. Yeah. I don't know what they do with safety. I think next year they could be looking to add two safeties.

[B]

I don't think they'll add two. I don't think they will.

[A]

Cole Bishop has spent a lot of time this year on his back watching players run over him.

[C]

In fairness, they ran right by everybody else and then ran over Cole on their way to the end zone.

[B]

But I also think that would show that you're giving up on a. Yeah, like that would be Bean giving up on Cole Bishop, who would be entering his third.

[C]

So he signed two veteran safeties that have not played at all for the Bills for the last two years. Yeah, when you try to bring those guys in, too.

[A]

I was just talking, just was seeing my parents before the show and my dad goes, boy, somebody wasn't happy. After the Falcons game. I was like, what? Parents are a little bit slower to get to the YouTube channel. So I think he just watched our Falcons recap. And the one thing that stood out to me when you brought up, like, what can be done for the safeties. And I remember sitting there, Mike, when we did the. The recap after the Falcons game where we had heard before the game that Poyer was probably going to be active and been very open about. I don't think there's anything left there with Jordan Poyer. We saw what it was in Miami and it got to the point that midway through that game I was like, screw it.

[C]

Put him in.

[A]

Put him in. Like, it can't be worse. So, like that's. That is how bad for all the comments and there have been a bunch of them about, like, what can be done to the safety position. Like, I am at the point of screw it. Like, see what Poyer can do.

[C]

I do think it says something about what they're doing with the defense where we're seeing more of Shaq. Some of that's been injury related. More of Poyer. It's more like if you guys aren't going to do it the way we need you to do it, we're putting in guys that maybe don't have the. The physical speed and some of that, but they're going to play the game the way we want it played.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it becomes rising, raising that floor up like we said.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The second half of Atlanta. I guess if you want to be more. A little encouraged. It was certainly. You couldn't be worse than the first half. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You couldn't play worse than they did.

[A]

In the first half. I'm with Kendrick. I'm. I'm just over wrapping Bishop.

[B]

I have to shout out this comment by Joshua B. Martin. Don't improve your safeties safety or improve. So what I was trying to quote was the. There was a podcaster that said, don't love your job. Job. Your love. And people roasted her.

[C]

Yeah. Should be roasted.

[B]

So it was pretty funny. All right. Comment from newbie saying, Keon's taking over. Doubters insert foot in mouth. Love the show.

[A]

I would love to put my foot in my mouth.

[B]

I love.

[A]

I would. And there's the opening like there would be. They would be so enjoyable to come on here next week when we're at the Distillery in Rochester. Come out to the live show next Thursday. I would love to come out here and be like, hey, another big. Another big game for Keon. You know, this would be great to build off of, heading into Kansas City, all of these things. We just haven't seen it. We just haven't seen it. And he's got 125 yards since the Baltimore game.

[C]

We gave him his flowers after Baltimore. And then what happened a couple of weeks later, he ends up getting benched for the start of the game. Yep. And he has not been effective. And I keep going back to that. If you're not catching the ball, drawing flags, something positive for this offense. And there just hasn't been enough. And they keep doing it. I don't know why that's the one thing. Maybe that's a little on Josh. I think he still sees that covered Keon.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

As a legitimate play. It. It's not working.

[A]

It's. It's a low percentage throw.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not drawing the. The flags. And it's not him not fighting through to draw him. Like the refs are itching to throw flags. Like they will throw flags if you give any effort on defensive backs. Keon hasn't been that guy to draw him this year either. That's another indictment on where his development is and the physicality of where he is.

[C]

If I go back to the defense for a second and curious what you guys think are. Mathis 26, 47, says Bishop and Rap aren't good. I understand Jenna, Dan and Mike can't say it, But Bean and McDermott are too concerned with drafting high character guys instead of drafting talent.

[B]

I mean, I don't think that's.

[A]

I think Cole Bishop is talented. I think athletically he's the opposite of. Of Demar.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You saw that on the interception. It's just, does he have the processing power to make the adjustments? Does he have the physicality to play the safety position? Because if you wanted him to be in the old days, like what we thought Micah was, is the free safety and Jordan Poyer strong safety. That's not the case anymore. Both guys have to come in and play the box. Like, if Poyer was faster, like what he was back in the day, like that was. That was his speed. Like he could come in and lay hits.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so could point, so could hide. He'd come in and make a tackle at the line. Of scrimmage and in the box. We just haven't seen that out of Bishop. I don't think this is about character, about this team by any means. It really does come down to talent in making plays.

[B]

There's just a Eric saying we need criminals on this team. That's. That's. It's a funny comment. That's not. That's.

[C]

Well, there's.

[B]

That's not how it is. But no, I don't think it's. I don't think it's that. I think you would like to have a guy that's high character. I think that always is a. Is a plus when you look at. When you're looking at drafting a player.

[A]

But I think blank figured it out. They're 0 and 2 and weird uniform combos.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

That's it. Hey, Shout out. Blink. You have figured it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They made a mistake by getting rid of Mac Holland's Mel Superman.

[C]

I don't disagree.

[B]

I don't disagree with that either. I. I think that. I think we were all upset when they got. When the Patriots.

[C]

This is another thing with the revamping of the roster, bringing other players in, trying to figure out who's on the 53 practice squad and all this. I know this is only like one spot, but, like, has Codrington did enough that you think about that roster spot even for a game?

[A]

There was a time that Jen and I were both like, it's only a matter of time before he breaks one. And now I. I just don't see.

[C]

I just. I look at and say, Ty Johnson can run back kicks.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Character run back punts. Like, I. At least for when, you know you need some other players on the roster. I think it's a luxury that they can't. It isn't really getting them any particular benefit.

[B]

Yeah. Patrick asking if receiver play is bad, does a Gabe get elevated?

[C]

Let's start with this before Dan gets to talk here. Gabe's still not healthy, and I don't know at what point he would be healthy enough to be on the regular practice squad. They brought him in for that thought that at some point he could help the team. I don't necessarily think it is impactful at all. The one thing about Gabe Davis is if you try to put Gabe Davis on the roster, he has to be one of your top three receivers because he doesn't play special teams. So there's no. You get nothing else out of him in that way. And I don't think Gabe was that guy when his last year here. And I certainly don't think after a bad year and an injury, he's going to come back and be that guy. There is no law that says you cannot bring in players from other organizations.

[B]

That is true. I just checked.

[C]

You did. Is it says you can trade? Is it? You're right.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Yeah. Janice says you're right. You can bring guys in. Be needs to go out and get a Lava. I'll take him a Chris Alave. He'd be the number one receiver on the team, no question.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And, you know, while we talk about getting used to things on an offense, beating man coverage, running down the field, catching the ball, all those crazy things that you need to do, I. I don't know if they'll make a move.

[B]

That way, but Thomas saying, hey, folks, new here. I'm enjoying the show. Keep up the great work.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you, Thomas. We appreciate that. That's always fun.

[C]

I was very good.

[A]

I was good. I was. I was a good boy. I was a really good boy.

[C]

You didn't say anything.

[A]

I didn't say anything.

[C]

Well, I think. I don't see Gabe playing.

[A]

Guys can't get open. Gabe didn't get open. He doesn't get open.

[C]

But the Kansas City game, it would.

[B]

Be kind of funny. I'm not saying I want it, but it would be kind of funny. I'm not saying I like it.

[C]

That would be great. Content.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

What would you have to give up to get a lot of.

[C]

Oh, not even a second.

[B]

Do it.

[A]

It's got a year. I mean, you have to restructure it. Yeah.

[C]

You're not. He's. You're. He's got one year after this one, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do it.

[A]

Well, I don't. I don't want to do it because you.

[C]

They. They trade thirds. He's going to trade a third. He's. Every year you get a third, you get a third.

[B]

I'm fine with that, though. I feel like they've. They've struggled to.

[C]

I would really like to see them move up in the draft at other times to use those picks to get a receiver more so than signing.

[A]

Everybody loves picks until they turn into Keon Coleman.

[B]

That's what I'm saying, though. That's why I'd rather have them get a player.

[C]

Well, that. That just means you drafted the wrong guy. Exactly. Other teams are drafting guys that are contributing right away and getting better in year two and are cheap.

[A]

Picasso's player of the game. All right.

[B]

Picasso's player of the game. Let's get into it. Treat your team to the most flavorful pizza on game day. Picassos. We are Buffalo Pizza, shipping both local and nationwide. Order online today@Picasso Pizza.net Picasso's Pizza.net.

[C]

I can't wait until Gabe Davis is the Picasso's player of the game.

[B]

Oh, can you imagine, Dan?

[A]

Look at your career. Give him the ball more.

[B]

That looks good.

[A]

Getting some pizza. Can order online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The.

[B]

The cup and char.

[A]

The cup. Yeah.

[B]

It's elite. It's.

[A]

You didn't have that growing up either.

[B]

No, that's. That's wasn't a thing in. Yeah, I don't. I think that's like a western New York thing.

[C]

Yeah. I never had it.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. Growing up, like in Greece. I remember there were some places. And now, like, any place that has it.

[B]

Yeah. You gotta go with it.

[A]

It's the best.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm hungry.

[B]

Yes. And thirsty.

[A]

I'm very thirsty.

[B]

And Josh Allen, the Picasso's pizza player of the week.

[A]

Just for you or for everybody?

[B]

Oh, I picked him. Okay. Yeah, that was mine.

[A]

It sounded like you were speaking for everybody.

[B]

Oh, okay. Well, no one else said one when you went out. Okay. No. How often we. Is this. It's not normally the case, but Josh has obviously struggled in these last two losses. He's turned the ball over quite a bit. He talked about how in moments he's put his head in the sand and how he can't do that. And I think sometimes the body language, sometimes trying to do too much. And I understand this team goes as Josh Allen does, but I think after the bye week, having that time to be the disciplined player that we have seen Josh be in the past and how impactful that has been on the field. I expect Josh to be a leader. I expect him to be disciplined, and I expect that focus and that can change what this team does on the field.

[C]

And who else noticed that? Josh.

[B]

His grandma. Okay. So his grandma called him after the Falcons lost and was like, I just want to see you smile.

[A]

Same.

[B]

Yeah. Which he. Josh talked about winning is fun.

[C]

Yeah. He's gotten his ass beat in the last two weeks.

[B]

Like, beaten up.

[C]

That is not physically beaten up.

[B]

No.

[C]

He's taking a lot.

[B]

Beaten up. Yes.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So I think it's getting back to that Josh Allen jovial style of play. And what does that is making big plays, scoring points, the excitement that goes in with winning football.

[C]

Totally agree.

[A]

Who are you gonna go with? Mike?

[C]

I'm good. I'm keeping it simple. It better be James Cook.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

It better be a Lot of James Cook. My God. They played in Atlanta last week and they didn't have the kid played at Georgia. They should have let him cook in his. In Georgia.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And they didn't. So we're coming a little farther north, but it's still heading towards the south. Just make up for it this week. Put the ball in his hands a lot. Get creative. Instead of getting creative with Dawson Knox and Elijah Moore, get creative with James Cook. Your second best player getting the ball. Moore, and let him go.

[B]

Mr. Steven said, I'm close with my gima also. I love to hear that. You have to embrace those moments when they come because they aren't going to happen forever. That is very.

[C]

Yeah. Well, I'm on the other side of that conversation now.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I didn't even think of that. Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That is sweet, though.

[A]

Somebody here. I found Mike's burner. Somebody said grew as the Picasso player of the game. So I. I didn't know that you have a burner.

[B]

Wait, that reminds me. I literally screenshotted this comment because it made me chuckle so hard.

[A]

Oh, that Hoyt will have more sacks then.

[B]

Yes. Shout out Bishop. Underscore dp. Watch Hoyt finish with more sacks than Russo. That was funny.

[C]

I. I'm gonna ask you guys this question Grandpa with this is not a positive, but this is more of a negative on the whole thing. Isn't Greg Russo still their best defensive end? Which is not great. Yeah, right. I mean, he's.

[A]

He's.

[B]

I mean, according to you, it's amazing.

[C]

No, I'm saying is like. I'm saying is Mike was right. Yeah. But I wanted it to be that because he is playing really well. I think it's because they have not gotten great play out of the pass rushers.

[A]

I agree with no doubt. He said Dion Walker that was going to be one of. That was possibly my Picasso's player of the game. But I think I'm going to pick with go with Ed Oliver getting his feet back underneath him in the first game into Atlanta. Then the buy. I think the ankle will feel even better and better if they're. Carolina is going to try and run the ball.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Dion's been. Dan was really impactful in Atlanta. I want to see Ed be that tackle for a loss guy disruptor, penetrator in that interior to kind of. Because that's what Carolina wants to do. They want to bang that drum. They want to keep pounding. It's going to be ground and pound. I'm really looking at that interior of the defensive line to be better.

[B]

Okay. Picks you want to start?

[C]

Yes, but I also. And when we're done, I have a few people want to mention over the last week and a half or so as we get a chance to mention people that.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

Reached out to us. Us pick on the game. It's a W. They'll be better. Not at the level Dan wants them to be. And they won't cover 2317 bills.

[A]

If Mike is right, I'm going to be sad. I want this to be convincing. I want the bills to score 30 points because that is the standard that we have come to expect out of a Josh Allen led offense. Bills win by double digits 30 to 20.

[B]

I also have the Bills winning by double digits. I have them winning this game 27:17. Good. I remembered. I think this is a get right game. I think this is a. Hey. We did not play the way we needed to the last couple of weeks. We had a moment. We are the Buffalo Bills. We are the better team.

[A]

We are.

[B]

See that? We are.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. The White House. Nope.

[C]

Nope.

[B]

Maggie saying I want 40 points. Other people saying bills 27, 23. Tegman Doge saying 39. Brian saying bills win 33 13.

[A]

That'd be awesome. Brian.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

42, 14.

[B]

Megan Trainer's biggest fan. Want them to have zero punts.

[A]

Man of war. What happens if the Bills lose to the Panthers? Should we panic? Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

3313 would be a great score. That would be like a. That would be dominant and you know.

[A]

Both sides of the ball.

[C]

Both sides of the ball. All those things would be good.

[B]

Very true.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, let's do Credit to me.

[A]

Mike, you want to give some. Well, there's a few people. Yeah.

[C]

All right. From the AMER game. This is going back. Rochester am, Scott Corey coming up to me. Thank you. This was in Atlanta at the hotel. Two of our Canadian viewers, Mark and Luke, I told them they're halfway with the four for. For the Bible, for the Gospels. Mark and Luke. We had it covered. Dan and I saw Isaiah at the airport while we were in tsa. Do you remember that?

[A]

Nope.

[C]

He talked to us. He was. He said Buffalo plus he was two lines in front of us when we were in Atlanta, coming back from Atlanta.

[A]

Was he in a better group than us?

[C]

You were not feeling well that time.

[A]

I was.

[C]

You were not. He was awesome. He yelled across.

[A]

Not yet.

[C]

Yelled across two rows in front of us on tsa pre check. Going through.

[A]

Sorry.

[C]

Isaiah, my favorite. So my daughters and my granddaughters were There. And my daughter wanted me to get them french fries. So I stopped at McDonald's, and I went in. Use the. Use the app thing. Inside waited, and the woman who was running the place, Emily brings. All I got was the two fries for the kids. And she handed them to me, and she said, like, comment I subscribe. She said she and her boyfriend Chad watch us all the time.

[A]

Love that.

[C]

And Chad was very disappointed when Jenna got married. That's what she told me. So I wanted to shout out to. I've had these in there. I wanted to shout out to all those people.

[A]

Hang on, you guys. Start the credit to me. I have to get something that I left.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you do.

[C]

Okay, there he goes.

[B]

Do you want to start the credit to me? No, you know what? Wait. First Pops Mafia. Credit to my cardiac surgeon. Oh, Pops Mafia. I hope you're doing well.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

Thinking of you. All right, credit to me. I'll start with credit to me. So obviously, we're trying to take Buffalo plus to the moon. You all know that. But credit to my dad, Ben. He's had these sports center ringtone on his phone for probably 20 years, and he somehow figured out how to get it to be the Buffalo Plus. Oh, that's theme song for when we have, like, the. Shut up. Dan just yelled at me how to do it. But, yeah, my dad making the Buffalo plus theme song. His ringtone is very sweet, very cool. And credit to Ben because he does not know how to do anything with technology. So that was really impressive.

[C]

They come through big for Buffalo Plus.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

Mom's putting things on cars.

[B]

You know, literally guerilla marketing, like, handing out business cards. Say Buffalo Plus. No, they support. They support the kids.

[C]

So my credit to me. I don't think I mentioned this on the podcast, but Dan and I were in Atlanta last week, and I had not been to that stadium. Awesome.

[A]

Unbelievable stadium.

[C]

Top three in the league, and I don't even know where I'd put one and two. I love that stadium. I had not been there because I did not go to the game in 2017 when they played there before. And that was the 57th NFL Stadium where I've covered a game. And yes, There are only 32 teams in the league, but I've been there for two and two in many cities. In. I've seen two in London. I've seen games in NFL cities where they played in different stadiums than they used to. Heck, even the Rose Bowl. I saw the super bowl in the Rose Bowl. That's not even an NFL stadium.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So it really is 58 in that case. So it's cool. And I love going to the stadiums. I love going to the games. It's a lot of fun. And some of these new ones are spectacular. So I'm looking forward to next year when Buffalo becomes one of those new stadiums and we get a chance to go.

[A]

They are real and spectacular, Jerry.

[C]

They are. I love when you quote Seinfeld.

[A]

There we go. So it's not the most, like, politically correct shirt at the time, but this is. I don't know who sent this. So this package arrived today at the station. We have the best fans and, like, subscribers. And it. It's very funny that people spend, like, hard earned money to give us inside jokes, which we do have to do the inside joke podcast of. Of all these kind of things. But somebody sent this shirt in.

[B]

Shirt is ridiculous. Okay.

[A]

Like, who? There was no note. Okay.

[B]

Can you read it?

[A]

It's. Yeah, it's a picture of Abraham Lincoln that says Ford Theater, one star review. Awful. Would not recommend.

[B]

That's terrible. That is bad.

[A]

I don't know if I can wear it.

[C]

Oh, I don't think you want to wear it.

[A]

Right?

[C]

I mean, it is from the 1800s, correct?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It was a tough night.

[B]

As a historian, chatty goes 10 out of 10.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Like, political climate. Like, we're not getting political. It's not the best time, but very funny shirt. Obviously, I have struggled mightily. I think I struggled the most after the Atlanta game when I was. Was not 100%.

[C]

Yeah, you fought through, though. You played hurt.

[A]

And we redid it three times, so I made sure I nailed it.

[B]

You kept in all the outings.

[C]

Yeah, we just.

[A]

That was. But yeah, amazing shirt. So thank you so much. And if you know who sent this one in. Too soon for Lincoln. Too soon. But, I mean, that is just an unbelievable shirt. But there was no note as to, like, who it was or appreciate. You know that. But that was awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

My credit to me is to me. Okay.

[C]

Oh, no.

[A]

But this is relatable to other people. I had come into. I had acquired a sum of money.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I'd acquired some money this week. This past week. Cash.

[B]

Cash.

[A]

Okay. Five large bills.

[C]

And did Chauncey Bellups have anything?

[A]

No, he did not. My job was to put that. To deposit that for Renee and I.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And it was to also do some bills. It was a day. We got Friday, and I was rushing into work and I misplaced this lot of bills, envelopes. Bills. It was like, you know, you take a bill and you kind of like fold it in half so, like, it could fit in my pocket.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I did not get a chance to go to the bank. I did not get a chance to pay the bills. That happens. Renee didn't ask me. Um, and then it got to be like Saturday. And I was like, I don't know where that went.

[C]

This is so good.

[A]

So. So by the time it got to be Sunday, I was starting to tear apart my office to be like, I know it's around here somewhere. But I had been to work. We had had a family thing. Can't remember. It wasn't in the man purse.

[C]

Was anybody at the house when you were searching?

[B]

No.

[C]

So you were solo searching.

[A]

Solo searching, which is the best way to search. On top of it, the girls get into everything. And so there was a chance, like we have a. Kids, like a supermarket, that I was going through the register and there was fake money. And I was like, is this a fake? Is this fake? Did they take it? That was where I was at. Paranoid. Finally Monday, I was out of options. And I said, renee, did you see the papers and you know that had the money in it? And she's like, no, you deposited it on Friday. I was like, I didn't deposit it and now I can't find it.

[B]

Oh, I thought you told her that night.

[A]

No, this. I had.

[B]

This was days later.

[A]

Days later.

[B]

Oh, that would.

[A]

This was. This was days later.

[B]

I would not be happy.

[A]

She didn't take it. Well, understandably so. And then I was in full on panic mode because then I really wanted to find the money. So credit to me. I went through the tote outside. We went through the garbage. Credit to Renee. She did help me look. But we're talking about few days of garbage. I've got some kids and some pull ups and some diapers.

[B]

Gosh.

[A]

And I found the money. I found the money. I found it. You credit to me for finding that money that you lost. That I lost.

[B]

Really proud of you, Dan, by the way.

[C]

I just want to tell you, you were worried of whether your daughters picked it up. Believe me, as they get older, they're going to be taking money from you.

[A]

Shane was like. Shane's like, daddy, what are you doing? And I was like, I tell them.

[C]

What Shane said to you.

[A]

She said she could take the money. She goes, you can have all the money in my piggy bank. She goes, I think I have a hundred dollars in there.

[B]

And I was like, that's so nice.

[A]

And it's like. Then she Wanted to, like, touch the money. And I was like, do wash your hands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, this is.

[B]

Yeah. Out Ralph saying, what horse did you bet on, Dan? It was.

[A]

But, yeah. So sorry for the potty language there. But that was. There was. Jenna had texted me on Tuesday because I still hadn't found it Tuesday. So all of this stuff that I had finally told Renee that I had lost the money, that was all Monday. Tuesday I had the babies. I watched them. It's daddy daycare on Tuesday. And then I finally found it on Tuesday. But Jenna, who's come over on times to hang out with the babies, and she text me during the day, like, how's it going? And I didn't respond until the end of the night when I said, better now. And she's like.

[B]

And I was like. I was like, oh, my God. First of all, Dan is so dramatic. I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

No doubt.

[C]

Says credit to me. I lost a lot of cash.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

So, yeah, I found it in the. The bottom of the last garbage bag, the most recent garbage bag. It was at the bottom. Found it. And I texted Jenna, and I was like, I'm better now. And she's like, why would happen? I was like.

[B]

I was worried. You were.

[A]

Remember that?

[B]

Money, care, the kids.

[A]

So what had happened was I had had some money, and then I had lost it, and I.

[C]

Then the important thing is you got it back and you didn't panic at all.

[A]

And that was all going to the casino.

[B]

F bomb is nectar of the gods.

[C]

Sweet.

[A]

I found it.

[B]

I found it. Okay.

[A]

Just like in. In the driveway, just rolling over, and the kids are playing in the leaves. And I was like, let me jump in these leaves, too, because that was such a good feel.

[B]

Pops. Mafia. Who threw the money away, is the question.

[A]

That is to be debatable. Renee is the one.

[C]

Just.

[B]

Just take these. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Dan threw the money away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love my wife.

[C]

It would be of no benefit of you now.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You have the whole story. You got the money back.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

You threw it away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We don't know.

[B]

We know, dude.

[C]

We know. We know. We're gonna pin it on you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[B]

That's so good. All right, thank you all for sticking with us, for watching. Mike and I will be down in Carolina.

[C]

And listen, I hope the Bills win 50 to nothing. Okay, that's great. I just. Let me ask you one quick thing on that. If the Bills were to blow them out, does that have any impact on the line against the Chiefs?

[B]

Game?

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So what right now, what would the line be? The Chiefs game. Chiefs are going to be favored in Buffalo, right?

[B]

Yes, I do think so.

[A]

I think right now it'll be Chiefs by two, Bills minus one.

[C]

Really? Even if it's just regular games they both win, Nothing special.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, that's interesting.

[B]

What if this game was this week, what would it be? Are you saying this week it would be minus one?

[A]

It's a good question. I don't know how much like I think the Bills being at home. The Bills, if they were playing this week, they'd be coming off a buy.

[C]

And at home. Yeah, and at home they'd be what, nine or ten point favorites in this game.

[A]

Who if the Bills were home this.

[C]

Week, this week against.

[A]

Yeah, they'd be ten point. Yeah.

[B]

No, I was asking though about the Chiefs.

[C]

Right. So against the Chiefs, they like to keep those games.

[A]

Wow. Right, right now the look ahead line on DraftKings that as of right now, you can bet it the Bills are one and a half point underdogs.

[C]

That's right. Well, I thought maybe.

[A]

Interesting to see how. How it could changes. Absolutely.

[B]

So.

[C]

So the difference there might be flipping to the Bills being slight favorites. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Interesting.

[C]

I'd honestly, I'd rather see the Bills be underdogs.

[B]

I completely agree.

[C]

So that's why they're going to keep the score.

[A]

I've been usually pretty good. I nailed the Carolina line.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Look at you. All right, please be sure to like.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

Subscribe.

[A]

We really may be one of my favorite pods we've done in a long.

[B]

Time because it was mostly you.

[A]

Rusty. One shot.

[C]

The dissolve is sweet.

[B]

The dissolve is really good. All right, thank you so much.

[A]

Shout out. Rusty the director.

[B]

Yes, Shout out.

[C]

Makes our life so much easier.

[B]

So much easier. From the Connors and Ferris podcast studio, that's Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I'm Jenna Kot.

[A]

Next Thursday live show distillery Hope Ave in Rochester.

[B]

Please be sure to join us there. We love it. All right, thank you for watching so much. Again, like Comment Subscribe Share we'll catch you next time here on Buffalo Plus.

[A]

Now from the Connors and Ferris podcast.

[C]

Studio, this is the Buffalo plus podcast.