← Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills podcast
What they're saying about Bills vs Steelers in Pittsburgh with Jeff Hathhorn
00:28:16
Loading summary
Transcript64 lines
- [00:00]
A
They've been spoiled here. The 70s spoiled a couple of generations and there hasn't been a playoff win here in eight games in eight years and the fans are tired of it.
- [00:18]
B
Hey everybody, welcome Back to the Buffalo plus YouTube channel. I'm Mike Catalana. Thanks for being with us in the Connors and Ferris podcast studio today. And today we have are what they're Saying segment. We always talk to a reporter in the city where the Bills in this case are going and that is Pittsburgh and he is a return guest on the Mount Rushmore of guests. Because of the views we got the last time we brought in Jeff Hathorne. He is from the Fan in Pittsburgh. He is the sports director there. He has covered Pittsburgh sports, has covered the Steelers. Jeff, welcome back to Buffalo Plus.
- [00:54]
A
Yeah, thanks. Good to talk to you. I always love this matchup. And finally I don't have to drive.
- [00:58]
B
Yes.
- [00:59]
A
You guys have to come here for the, for the first time in a while.
- [01:02]
B
Yes, we are coming back to Pittsburgh. The last time the Bills were in Pittsburgh was the game they clinched the playoffs for the first time in this McDermott Allen era. And old Duck Hodges was the quarterback for the Steelers in that one.
- [01:15]
A
Glory days there. Yes.
- [01:17]
B
So we go back. Let's start with this. Aaron Rodgers. Now, I know the expectation last week was that he was going to play. As we are recording this on Tuesday, your expectation is that he will get on the field.
- [01:32]
A
Yeah, Mike Tomlin seems pretty confident that he was confident after the game. I mean I was surprisingly confident after the game where he was like, yeah, he's going to play next week. And then at the end threw in a hopefully. But it wasn't like a well, hopefully. It was more like I got to throw this in like allegedly. You know, it was, it was one of those hopefully. But it does sound like he's going to play and whatever. We don't know specifically what's wrong with the wrist. It was just it what Tomlin did kind of let out in explaining some of this was that it was a doctor's call that he wasn't going to play. So he went through a couple of days of practice, limited practice, and then they just decided on Saturday like, hey, we don't think that this is the right decision. They being doctors. And Tomlin said, okay, go with Mason Rudolph.
- [02:18]
B
All right, I want to get to his play in a minute with Rogers. Let's talk about what he's been like. I don't know what you expected when he got there from the outside. We watched him with the Jets. The Bills played him against the jets, couple of times, obviously three times. And it was always something. It was always talking. It was always on McAfee, all those things going on. What's he been like in Pittsburgh?
- [02:43]
A
Incredible. He really has. I mean, I mean, we thought those same things of, like, man, you see the stuff that, I mean, he's out there with a lot of things, his opinions on. He has an opinion about everything. And you thought, okay, that's coming to the room and he's going to go on McAfee once a week and kind of disrupt what's going on. From the day he got here, he's been great. I mean, Mike, he knows everyone's name in this organization now, like, whether you're an equipment guy, whether you're a teammate, whether you're a coach, trainer, like, and he's. And he's not. So with Russell Wilson, it was kind of like, all right, I feel like I have to do this with Aaron. He wanted to get to know everybody. I mean, the guy he hangs around with most is Ben Skoronic, who has, I think, five more catches than we do on the season, but somehow they're buds, like, and, and he calls guys by names and you'll see practice squad guys giving him grief, but he'll give it back. Just know it's coming. But he's very comfortable in his own skin. Like, to say that he's been any, anything other than great would, I think, be disingenuous. I mean, you almost want something. And it's not to say that there aren't questions that he doesn't get, you know, wrestled up about or get annoyed with, but watching him interact with his teammates has been, has been eye opening and, and I guess I didn't realize how much he loved the game. I mean, you have to love the game in order to play this long. But to watch him in that room interact with his teammates, how he can give it to guys and they'll take it because he's, he's a gold jacket guy as, as Tomo would say, has been really remarkable. I mean, it's the best quarterback situation they've had here in a long time from an off the field standpoint. Now, he's not quite the guy he was, you know, 10 years ago as far as a quarterback, but, man, off the field has just been outstanding.
- [04:39]
B
How much of that is Tomlin? Or was it. Do you think? Rogers came in going, all right, I know what happened in New York, and this is the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's not the New York Jets, Was it combination of the two? Did Tomlin sort of set a space that this is what he wanted, or did you think Rogers came in going, this is the way I want to approach things in Pittsburgh?
- [05:01]
A
I think Rogers came in with respect for the head coach in the organization, which kind of set a tone that I'm not better than the organization or smarter than the head coach. Like, so he came in and no one. He didn't have to, like, earn the respect or have try to figure out the head coach. Like, he knew who he was, he knew his record. He knows football history. He knows about the Steelers. Like, so all of that was never an issue. And I think that's what started the groundwork then. I mean, there were some other veterans in the room, more defensively than offensively, that I think he respects. So I think that made it easy for him to come in because it wasn't a bunch of guys he didn't really know. It was players that he's maybe not known, but at least known of over a lot of his career.
- [05:52]
B
Let's talk about his play. I mean, the team has been, you know, above.500, hanging right in, was in the lead in the division. Where would you assess his play? And I know you said, obviously it's hard to expect the Gold Jacket guy, and it's better than what you've had in Pittsburgh. Where would you say he has been up to this point?
- [06:13]
A
Yeah. And to that point, it's. I mean, it's the best quarterback play I think they've had since Ben. Not that there haven't been times where Mason has been all right, or Kenny Pickett might have had a game or something like that, but over a stretch, it's the best quarterback play. I mean, he kind of felt like for much of the first half of the season that Aaron was. Could be a guy who could take you to another step in the process. I mean, he's. You watch him in practice.
- [06:39]
B
I mean, he's still.
- [06:40]
A
The arm is still really good. He. He throws from these crazy arm angles. I'll say this. At the beginning of training camp, there were times where receivers were getting hit in the face because they weren't expecting the ball to come out so quickly.
- [06:52]
B
Yeah.
- [06:53]
A
Like, it took a little while for the timing because he gets rid of it so fast. And it's different than Mason. Like, Mason goes back and it's. It's kind of a. It's a whole motion. Aaron is. You know, it's kind of Marino. Like, would be the Pittsburgh comparison of how he can get rid of the football and all the different angles that he can get rid of the football and he still has some elusiveness. What you don't see, and then you see this with older players is you don't see the consistency. Great players do a week in and week out. And I think as you get older, I think you still see those games in there, but they're just not as, as consistent. And I think the team, not because of Rodgers, but the team is very inconsistent as well. So it's been a pattern in Pittsburgh this year.
- [07:38]
B
The other thing that seems to be a pattern is the, the length of passes, the, the distance. If you look at the numbers, it's pretty low. Like you know how his length of completions, length of attempts. Is that really the game he is now where it's getting out of his hands quickly, trying to get it into playmakers hands as opposed to even with DK Metcalf trying to get it down the field.
- [08:03]
A
And I would say some of that's on the offensive line. I don't, I don't think they feel confident in putting him back there in a seven step drop with, you know, as this line. I think the line has improved for the most part over the season, but I think the design was, listen, we don't want to have him sitting back there. We want to get rid of the football. And you know, early in the season like there were some times where he got hit pretty hard and I think they developed this plan and for a while it worked really well. I mean the Steelers receivers were leading the league in yak yardage for a long time. And then as defense is adjusted, the Steelers haven't adjusted back. And I think that's been part of the problem. They know they're throwing it deep and, and teams are taking away those opportunities for yards after catching and it's just been hampering. I mean, Steelers only have 25 plays with 20 yards or more throwing it. Only three teams are worse in the league and you don't want to be any of those three teams because it's the Browns, the Jets and I don't know, maybe Atlanta or somebody that's just not having a good year when it.
- [09:08]
B
Comes to going against the Bills. You know, the numbers can lie a little bit. The Bills are the number one past defense in the NFL per yards per game. But in reality that's because people run the ball on the Bills and, and certainly attempt a lot of runs against the Bills. Can the Steelers run the ball effectively and will they make that the game plan on Sunday.
- [09:30]
A
Well, they have at times, and I think against Chicago, they showed it. Maybe they should have run it more. I think you could make that argument. They are going to be without their left tackle, Broderick Jones. Not that he's their best offensive lineman, but they will be without a starter. But, yeah, I think they can run the ball. And they, you know, they've done it basically with two guys. And though it kind of run the hot hand, although primarily it's Jalen Warren on earlier downs and Kenneth Gainwell, you know, in. In third downs or second and longs because he's just a little bit more versatile in the pass game than Jalen Warren is. But at times they made plays. And Aaron at times has said, hey, we need to get Jalen Warren the ball more. And part of that's game planning. Part of that is the fact that they haven't had a ton of offensive plays, or at least not at the level where you can have, you know, some of the opportunities for some of those guys.
- [10:26]
B
I was looking at this number, and this goes way back. Is this right? The Steelers have gone 60 games without scoring more than seven offensive points in the first quarter.
- [10:39]
A
Honestly, I would have to double check that, but that sounds about right. Even though they've been better on opening drives this year. That sounds about right. Typically, in the first half of the season, what you would see is it's the Steelers that made great adjustments in the second half. In the last few games, it's been the opposite. I mean, they came out flat in the second half against Chicago, just really struggled on offense and struggled with. With making adjustments. And it's kind of been a weird thing because they really hung their hat on that for most of the first half of the season. And on both sides of the ball, they just haven't been better. It's like they've stuck to a plan that they say that, hey, it worked at the beginning of the year, so this is what we do. But the way other teams are countering it, like, at some point you need to change up what you're doing. The Steelers haven't done it. We'll see if they do that against Buffalo. But I think that's. That's been an odd scenario. I mean, no one in the AFC is running away with this thing. It's been an interesting year in the conference, and the Steelers sat at 4 and 1 and thought, we're an elite. We're an elite team. Now they're tied with Baltimore, who started the season one and Five.
- [11:52]
B
Yeah, it's. It's. The reason I brought that up was because, look, a bill. Strength. It's funny, even with Josh Allen, they get the lead, they run the ball. It's helped their defense and they. They can't run the ball effectively. They get behind. And in the past it was like, yeah, Josh Allen turns it on and he's done that in a few games. But that's been an issue. It's been an issue for this team. They aren't. They aren't throwing the ball like they used to. So that's why I was. I was wondering about it.
- [12:20]
A
Let's. I. I would say this, Mike, there's probably one. One other similarity between the offenses. Probably each team's general manager is thinking should added another receiver.
- [12:32]
B
Yes. Yes. And old George is doing okay down in Dallas.
- [12:39]
A
Now, some of the routes he was running there, they don't really run here or he wouldn't have run here. And listen, he was a volatile dude. So just because it's working in Dallas doesn't mean it would have worked here. But that all being said, it has been kind of painful for Steeler fans to watch him week after week just have huge games with the Cowboys.
- [12:59]
B
Yeah, it isn't quite the same thing, but Stefan Diggs doing okay in Foxborough. And again, it's. In this case, it's against a rival. Now, Diggs had to go in some ways. Certainly Pickens probably had to go too. But you're right, though. I mean, it's funny. You know, the Bills have tried this everybody eats mentality, and it worked for a year and Josh won the MVP and they made the AFC championship game. And then this year it has just not worked. And now the offensive line's a little more banged up. So let's talk a little bit about that. We're not sure about Spencer Brown at right tackle. The whole line got beaten up down in Houston in this game. Tell me about the defense. We certainly, you know, you start with T.J. watt, but you got names. So one thing, because, you know, Jaylen Ramsey and Patrick Queen and Cam Hayward And Joey Porter Jr. How is this defense? Because, and stat wise, they're giving up.
- [13:49]
A
A lot of yards when they turn you over, they're really good and they can beat anybody. I mean, they got six on New England, one up there, got five on the Colts or reverse that, five and six on the. On two of the best teams in the AFC so far this year. When they can get the turnovers, they're good. But when they don't, to your point, I mean, no one's given up more passing yardage in the league than the Steelers. They're, they've given up the most fourth down conversions of any defense in the league. You wouldn't think a defense with Cam Hayward, T.J. watt, Jalen Ramsey, you know, Patrick Queen would give up those type of numbers. It's been puzzling, it's been since 2013 that the Steelers have had as many 30 point games against and we still have six games to go with Buffalo and two games against Baltimore on the horizon. I mean they just, they haven't, they, we talked about consistency. Their consistency just hasn't been there. And there are games where you watch those turnovers come and you're thinking, wow, this is a world beater defense. And then there are the other games where you know Caleb Williams is, is going down the field on you and you're just wondering, not the, Caleb's horrible. But none of the guys that have done it in these five games are MVP candidates. And they're going to face one obviously on Sunday.
- [15:12]
B
Yeah, well, the Bills have losses to Tua Davis Mills and they lost in Atlanta to Penix when he looked like a world beater in the first half. And then things have gone south for them. So they've had their struggles before. I get to Mike Tomlin because I wanted to ask you about him. You mentioned the afc. So you look at the AFC and it's funny because in Buffalo, you know, it's five straight division titles, AFC title game a couple times, can't get past the Chiefs and fans are down and, and they kind of have a right to be because this team just doesn't seem the same. And they'll ask us like, what do you think? And I go, look, I don't know how good they are, but as you said, I don't know how good the whole AFC is. And it feels like you just get in because you really don't know. When you see teams like the Colts and you see teams like the Patriots that haven't been there in Denver, there for basically a cup of coffee last year in Pittsburgh, is there a thought, get in and we see what happens. Or does. Are the fans maybe not or even yourselves watching it? Are you not there yet with this team?
- [16:16]
A
So it's kind of been the Steelers mentality over this last stretch. Just find a way to get in and make something happen. And that's what they have done. They found a way to get in and then they get their doors blown off. Fans here are not patient they are spoiled. It's not like, you know, two generations ago, where any playoff win was so much better than what they watched in the 60s from Steelers football. They've been spoiled here. The 70s spoiled a couple of generations. And there hasn't been a playoff win here in eight games in eight years. And the fans are tired of it. They're frustrated with it. And sitting at 4:1, you're thinking, all right. I mean, the fans started to get really excited about not just getting in the playoffs, but finally having a playoff game back home. Because playing in Buffalo, playing in Kansas City, playing in places like that, I mean, what are your chances realistically when you go to those type of places in the playoffs? But, man, if you can get a home game and you get somebody up, you know, if you get a weather advantage or whatever it might be, then maybe you can find yourself in contention again. But that's starting to slip away as well. And, yeah, fans here ticked. And I'll say this, it'll never be apathetic in Pittsburgh, but when you look at. At the, you know, seatgeeks or all those sites, there are a lot of tickets available for Sunday.
- [17:45]
B
Yeah. And Bill's fans, I mean, obviously it's not a long trip. We've talked about this before. I wish they were in the same division. It would be great. Yeah. It should have worked out that way. So when you talk about the frustration with the fans, like, hey, in Western New York, it's, you know, should McDermott go? Should Bean go? Like, even though they've been winning, they haven't gotten over the top. We know how the Steelers operate. Right. Generations of three coaches is Mike Tomlin. I hate to say, say it this way, but you hear it.
- [18:16]
A
What, what.
- [18:16]
B
What do people think of Tomlin? And what are the chances that this relationship ends at some point soon?
- [18:23]
A
We can't go a day on 93. 7 the fan without taking multiple. And. And I emphasize multiple calls of people wanting Tomlin fired. I mean, that. That's where we're at. And we're starting to get to where I. No one's done an editorial on that regard of, hey, it's time to. But there's been a lot of questioning and a lot of wondering. So the Penguins fired Mike Tomlin. He won. Or Mike Sullivan, rather. And he had won two Stanley Cups here.
- [18:55]
B
Yeah.
- [18:56]
A
But the thought was, in that organization, like, it was just time for a change. Now, their record was much poorer than what the Steelers is. But that's been a thought with a lot of fans, like, maybe Tomlin's not such a bad coach, but maybe it's time for a change.
- [19:15]
B
Yeah.
- [19:15]
A
And, and you, you talk every game that comes up more and more and more. And listen, I'll tell you from my opinion, I don't think Tomlin's a bad coach. They make mistakes. I think he's antiquated at times. I think they, they are too passive on offense, like too risk averse on offense. But he's not. You don't win that many games by being a bad coach.
- [19:36]
B
Yeah.
- [19:37]
A
It's just some decisions and let's, let's also be real. And with New England as an example, what was Bill Belichick without Tom Brady?
- [19:46]
B
Yeah.
- [19:47]
A
What is Mike Tomlin without Ben Roethlisberger? And I think at the beginning of the year that Steelers fans thought, oh, they've got another Rothberger and it just hasn't worked out over the second part of the first half or whatever chunk of games that we're in right now.
- [20:03]
B
I did notice only 11 times this year, I think they've gone for it on fourth down. And you know, it's funny and we, you and I have watched this game for a long time. The amount of times sometimes when it, you know, it used to be, I, I go back to remembering, maybe you remember this game, it was Patriots and Cults. Belichick had the ball in his own territory at like the 20 some yard line and he went for like a fourth and three and the Colts stopped him and they ended up losing and everybody was going to crush him.
- [20:33]
A
Right.
- [20:34]
B
And his answer was, I'd rather them score. Get it if they're going to get it, score quickly, beat us with and then we get a chance back again. And it was before everybody was talking analytics. Now everybody seems to want to go and when the coach doesn't go, all the numbers come up. Do you think Tomlin will ever evolve that way and just say, hey, I'm feeling this or I feel more confidence in my offense than I do in my defense to take more chances or is, is he old school that way that he's going to, he's going to be a little more by the old book.
- [21:08]
A
I mean, I don't want to say never because it took them forever to get into like a tush push rugby scrum. But they do it now. Yeah. And the organization never traded a first round pick until it did or it never got into free agency until it has recently. And that's not as much, Mike. But you understand my point is. Yeah, I don't want to say never. I think if he felt stronger about not just the offense, but defense, that maybe he would take more chances. I think part of it also is this. They've got a really young offensive line and they did struggle early, even though the Steelers are able to win a couple of games. So, you know, maybe they would if. If Aaron, like in the game against Chicago, maybe they would have if Aaron was in the game. But the fact that it was the backup quarterback, they didn't. But I think he is. He's tied to these core beliefs, and one of them is the worst thing in the world is a turnover. Now, nobody wants a turnover, but back in the day, Woody Hayes used to say, if you threw the ball, three things happen and two of them are bad.
- [22:15]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [22:16]
A
No one says that anymore. And I think it's. It's a similar thing with turnovers. I think there are teams that don't fear them as much because they feel like they'll get more chances, like they'll. They'll roll the dice. And Mike Tomlin is just not there yet.
- [22:32]
B
Yeah.
- [22:33]
A
Yeah.
- [22:33]
B
And there's also a thought that a punt, in a way, is a turnover. I mean, obviously it's field position, but, you know, the game is. The game has changed a great deal that way. I always ask this. It's going to be a tight game. It feels like every game at this point. And it's. It's a crazy week in the league because of the matchups that we have. What's the game plan for the Steelers? For the Steelers to come out, certainly offensively, what is their game plan? You. You would think in order to beat the Bills, oh, they would want to.
- [23:02]
A
Run the ball and keep the ball out of Josh's hands. I mean, that's the game plan. And then find somewhere else. When the Steelers won in Buffalo a couple of years ago on opening day, yeah, they did it by blocking a punt. They did it by getting a strip sack. Like, they did it by finding ways to do more within a game. Like, that's what they need to do. I don't think you're all of a sudden going to see the Steelers taking all kinds of shots down the field or exploiting the middle of the field, which they never use against Buffalo this week. But I think their game plan is, let's run the ball, let's win time of possession and let our defense find a way to win the game. And I get it. Listen, they're the most expensive. They're the highest paid defense in the league. So in a way, why wouldn't you want that group to try to win you a game? The problem is they've been inconsistent. And even though the offense has been better at scoring points recently, they just haven't been as good as they were early in, earlier in the season. So if they can get a run game going and they'll throw all those short passes and try to keep it out of Buffalo's hands.
- [24:10]
B
Yeah, and turnovers. You said that about what Pittsburgh's defense can do when the Bills turn it over more than one time. They've lost all four games. When they turn it over one or less, they've won seven games. So that has been a big thing. They've averaged 30 points a game in the. In the wins and 15 points a game in the losses. So last year they never turned it over six times all season. And that defense.
- [24:34]
A
Crazy number.
- [24:35]
B
Crazy. And to your point, when we talked about before, to think that can happen again is asking a lot, and it hasn't happened this year, and that's why it's so tight. Hey, Jeff, thanks very much for doing this. Let everybody know where they can listen, because I, I know there's going to be a lot of Bills fans heading down there where they can hear you and follow you on social media.
- [24:56]
A
Yeah, you can Hear us at 937The Fan in Pittsburgh at 937thefan.com. You could find our stuff on the website there. And my Twitter is at J. Hathorne. Unless you don't like me, then it's something else. And if you're coming down for the game. Yeah, we actually broadcast our pregame from the Rivers Casino, which is a block from the stadium, and we do it out in the public and it's. And it's a lot of fun. You'll. We'll have opposing teams come by and, you know, say a few clean things to us, but we enjoy interacting with everybody. So we're out there starting at one o' clock before this game, so.
- [25:33]
B
Oh, that's Bill's Mafia. Show up, get to the tables for a little bit and then. And then head to the game and, and it's a great trip and I love going to Pittsburgh, so we're looking forward.
- [25:45]
A
And bring your jackets. It's going to be cold. I realize it's Buffalo and there's a level of cold, but we're. We're gonna. It's gonna be cold.
- [25:53]
B
Yeah. Well, 425 game, bills and Steelers. It should be fun. We're looking forward to it. All right, Jeff Hathorne thanks again very much for being with us and thank all of you for being with us. And as always, please make sure to like, comment and subscribe. Jenna's going to be mad at me for not saying that at the beginning of the podcast, so make sure you like, comment and subscribe.
- [26:13]
A
Subscribe.
- [26:13]
B
Thanks for being with us here in the Connors and Ferris Podcast studio and we will see you next time on Buffalo Plus.