Dan Fates (3:09)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (3:10)

For them to be out there in the public on everybody's podcast.

Dan Fates (3:15)

Somebody asked Joe about, like, why is the tush push still around? And he's like, why? Was just kind of the offensive coordinator last year and didn't even know if we were going to be able to run the play. And then it was, okay, we're going to run the play and then how are we going to do it safely and to use Josh and all of those things. So I think it is that dynamic because it's a delicate way to balance between new position but a familiar face. So we know Joe. We're not learning about Joe's energy and what he brings to Buffalo. It's just in a different role.

Mike Catalana (3:47)

It's a pretty big different role, though.

Jenna Cotrell (3:49)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it definitely is. I don't know, maybe it's just I have a little fatigue from hearing just the same things over and over. And it is our job to really be tuned in what the team is saying. And you're right, you're only going to hear so much about what they can say because they want to keep some things close to the vest. But there are just times where I'm like, okay, but we did have some news as this was expected. But the bill is picking up officially Dalton Kincade's fifth year option. And it was also floated about possibly having some sort of load management or just with the PCL and his knee and how that has affected him and just the plan for him ahead and how much work they have to do with that.

Mike Catalana (4:28)

Yeah, yeah, I Think it's an interesting dynamic with Kincaid. And I know sometimes we all feel like, well, if you have a problem, you have surgery and then it's better. And I've been reading some of the medical people talking about with that injury, it isn't always surgery. It isn't like a quick fix, it isn't a. Something like an oil change, like a torn acl. Yes. And then it's better. So it is going to be a little bit of that. My concern is not him coming into this year and then managing it. It's the idea that this is a chronic thing, that it's not like two months from now it'll be better and then it'll be ready to go. And Jenna, you mentioned the fifth year option, which is kind of an easy decision for them to make. You have to make it by May so they make it. It's Dalton Kincaid, he's going to be on the team this year and he's would be scheduled to be on the team again for his fifth year. But then you start saying to yourself, okay, if this remains an issue, like if it just doesn't clear up all through next year, this coming season where he plays. But it's always watching it and it's always limiting. Boy, that's a really big decision to make to say now we're going to re up this guy. I know you drafted him, I know they like him. But he's going to have this period of time, especially this season, to show he can be healthy. Because if it is chronic, like other guys have had knees and had knees,

Jenna Cotrell (5:58)

you know what I mean?

Mike Catalana (5:59)

Had a knee issue.

Dan Fates (6:00)

Some of them have to.

Mike Catalana (6:01)

Exactly. But if this is the way it's going to be.

Dan Fates (6:05)

Do you like that one?

Jenna Cotrell (6:05)

It's funny. It was a dad joke. It was good.

Mike Catalana (6:07)

If this is the way it's going to be, I, I think it's bad business to say, well, now we're going to give him a five year extension.

Dan Fates (6:14)

Right.

Mike Catalana (6:15)

Only because you need. If you're going to pay the guy right now, he'll get paid a okay amount. It's not crazy for a tight end on the fifth year option.

Dan Fates (6:23)

Correct.

Mike Catalana (6:23)

As a first rounder. But then it becomes bigger money and a bigger commitment to see where he is.

Dan Fates (6:29)

Yeah. And I think that's what surprised me was the fact that this is more than just a. That this could be more than just a little injury. You know, we talked about he injured it in that indie game two years ago and that there was a flare up this year and that's what caused it. And they were trying to do their best to manage it through the season. But, you know, Brandon Bean was already saying in April, I think we'll have to see how it's going in camp. Is he having two days on, one a little less or one off? I think we'll have to see how he's doing. We have to make sure it's smart. We have to got to get him kind of armored up and calloused.

Jenna Cotrell (7:09)

You say April. Is that last April or this April?

Dan Fates (7:11)

He said this at the owner's meeting.

Jenna Cotrell (7:13)

Okay, so a couple days ago in March.

Mike Catalana (7:18)

Very good. Because I was like, April fool. This is. We're recording this on April 1st.

Jenna Cotrell (7:22)

But yes, I get the point. I was just.

Mike Catalana (7:25)

He did say it in March. Let's be truthful. We got to be accurate.

Jenna Cotrell (7:29)

But also, you could un. Honestly, I didn't know. Because you could have said that last year as well about. Are you annoyed at me? I just had to clarify, you know, why.

Mike Catalana (7:42)

That's the way. That's the way age works, Dan.

Dan Fates (7:48)

But the fact that they're already talking about this in March, is that good?

Jenna Cotrell (7:54)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (7:55)

And now April,

Dan Fates (7:58)

like, I know we always do that. Like, how concerned are you? I'm pretty concerned that they are preparing for this to be something that will linger not just in the off season, but will linger into the regular season. And you, you talked about the chronic thing. Yeah, I was thinking about it like that is the biggest thing about the NFL combine is they give you. They go through all of those medicals and, and players that you think are for sure, first round top 10 picks, all of a sudden start to fall. It was Will Johnson a few years ago. He was the corner from Michigan that they were like, this guy's great, but he may have this chronic knee issue that they called a quote, ticking time bomb. And he fell to the, I believe the second round. If you were to see a tight end coming out now in the draft like a Dalton Kincaid, how much of a red flag would this knee injury be and what would that do to his not only draft slot, but how you project him? He's 26 years old. And to think that he has struggled and been admitted that, like we could only get him out there really on passing place. Like we weren't really able to get him out there. And. And so you're. He's 26 and this isn't like Von Miller or Lorenzo Alexander at the end of their career. Guys that have. It's almost like they don't even can I say like you don't need the reps. Like they know how to show up on Sunday and play. And this is. That's not dunking, Kate. Like Josh was talking about last year, still being able to get on the same page with him and now you're talking about, well, maybe he won't practice during these reps. That's a major concern for me. And again, comment in what you think about the comments about being in Brady kind of was or Brady kind of echoed the same sentiment of we got to be smart with him. We have to see how they can do this. And the medical team is going to work to strengthen things around the pcl. But he chose not to have the surgery. And this is clearly lingering. There wasn't any one thing that Bean said caused it wasn't a re injury. He said it flared up. So if it's flaring up that easily, could that easily flare up again?

Jenna Cotrell (10:11)

Yeah, I think this is why it's. The two things can be true here. Because it was a easy decision for them to pick up the fifth year.

Mike Catalana (10:19)

Yes.

Jenna Cotrell (10:19)

Because you can. He does. He makes this offense better when he is on the field. The stats show that. But also with his injury history, with it being a nagging problem for him in his NFL career so far, you don't, you don't want it to be an extension where you're like, the dude can't even get out on the field. So having this kind of be the sweet spot where it's not a ton of money either. Like it's, it's 8 million, 8 point something. So it's, I feel like for the Bills right now they have a decision to make about Dalton Kincaid, but it's not going to come right now. I think what you do is this season and beyond, you're just like, is he going to be out on the field? Is he going to be able to be as impactful as they've always wanted him to be to this offense? And you go from there. But the fact that you're right, it's late March, early April, and we're talking about the possibility of using load management to get through training camp and then the regular season and then talking about having him on the field for the playoffs, it's definitely concerning.

Mike Catalana (11:19)

And I can already sense that some people may be responding. Say, why are you worried about it in the spring? Because the way the Bills are talking, this is not like, hey, give him a little time. By the middle of summer, he'll be fine. Look, we'd all love to See that happen for him. I think they are handling him. You mentioned older players. They're handling him like an older player. And what happens at the end of that period of time is they let the guy go. Right. That's what ends up happening. Because you're not going to double down and give him 15 million a year because you've had these concerns and that's when you move on.

Dan Fates (11:55)

Josh had off season foot surgery. They're like, yeah, he may. We expect him to be ready for voluntary and then once it really gets going. That's not what they're saying about King Kate. They're not saying, well, he'll be ready and then we'll play it by ear. It's. We need to plan now to play it by ear because if he was

Mike Catalana (12:14)

going to just be rest and get ready, shoot, they let him sit out half the spring and then get ready

Jenna Cotrell (12:20)

to go for sure.

Mike Catalana (12:21)

But I, I don't know if that's, I mean, not going to do a ton in the spring, but I think it's just the idea. So I do with you, Janet. I mean, obviously and Dan, it's, it's obvious they were going to pick up the 5th year option.

Dan Fates (12:34)

Agree.

Mike Catalana (12:34)

I hope he's a key part of the offense. It's just going to be something. His name is going to be on the injury list every week and says knee. Whether he's practicing or limited or whatever it is. It feels like that's what it's going

Dan Fates (12:47)

to be if you get those next contracts. We've talked about it time and time again. Not what you've done, what you're expected

Jenna Cotrell (12:53)

to do, what you're going to do.

Mike Catalana (12:55)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (12:55)

And I, I know they talked about being added that he thought he did a better job of strengthening other parts of his body that he was able to handle that. That's great. That might help.

Mike Catalana (13:05)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (13:05)

Yeah, absolutely. But if this is going to linger for not just an off season, not just one year like this was a full year of lingering removed from that injury.

Mike Catalana (13:16)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (13:16)

Is this now going to flare up every year where you're kind of having to manage it at 26 on the rookie contract? To me it poses big questions about where this is going long term and a second deal.

Jenna Cotrell (13:30)

And sometimes for me, when I'm looking at a player and I'm trying to figure out how to evaluate them, I'll be like, would I draft this player in fantasy? I've never drafted Dalton Kincade in fantasy because I worry about his ability to be on the field. I know that when he is out there, he has been able to score touchdowns and make some big catches. But I think I just don't look at him as a guy that's been able to show that he can be on the field for as much as the Bills need him.

Mike Catalana (13:54)

So the scenario for this could be they. They try to get him out there as much as they can, feel good about it, he's going to play as much. I know we're talking about two different things. We're talking a little bit about where he is this year, where he is in this year's offense and into next year. Then you're talk. We're talking about what it could be long term.

Dan Fates (14:11)

Absolutely.

Mike Catalana (14:11)

And I know most people are saying, I'm not really worried about that now. And you're right, you're not worried about the long term. I'm more.

Jenna Cotrell (14:17)

I'm worried about the short term.

Mike Catalana (14:18)

I'm more worried about the short term.

Dan Fates (14:20)

I'm worried about both.

Mike Catalana (14:21)

Yeah. But the long term sort of will, I think, should take care of itself.

Jenna Cotrell (14:25)

They love him, though.

Mike Catalana (14:26)

They do. But if he can't do that, then that's when not what you say, what you do is what you believe. But for this season, I can see them saying, we're going to manage it and see how he saw how it goes. But just keep that in mind as the year goes on.

Jenna Cotrell (14:41)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (14:42)

In my example too, is like they always talk about, you know, it's important to get some guys out there. Like we talk about, oh, he didn't practice Wednesday or he didn't practice Thursday, but they need him out there Friday. And like all those things, if you're Travis Kelce, if you're Mike Evans, you don't really need to practice. Like, you go out there, they know what to do on Sundays. They've proven it over a decade of work. That is not where Dalton Kincaid is in his career.

Mike Catalana (15:06)

But he does have, he does have a decent amount of time on the field.

Dan Fates (15:09)

With Josh Allen, he's also got a decent amount of time off of it.

Mike Catalana (15:12)

You're right. But it's not like he's a, he's a rookie or he's never been in the system before for. So I do think it's something they can manage.

Jenna Cotrell (15:19)

Just.

Mike Catalana (15:20)

Don't you find it interesting that they're talking so much about it?

Jenna Cotrell (15:24)

That's what I'm saying. We're not even into training camp and it's already talked about him being limited and what he possibly could do this season. That is, you're Right. Short term concern, long term concern. Thankfully they can let this play out and see how it goes. Y again, I think it was a smart decision to pick up the fifth year option. That being said, it is definitely something to monitor for. Sure. I had another thought, but I can't remember. Oh, I think that's also why they wanted to bring in my opinion, I'm like, that's why the Bills probably wanted to bring back Dawson Knox.

Mike Catalana (15:54)

Oh, I agree.

Jenna Cotrell (15:55)

It's because, you know, you know what those two work like together and you know that Dawson has been reliable. He's been able to be a blocker as well as a pass catcher and he's helped out your offense when Dalton has not been out on the field. Field.

Dan Fates (16:07)

Yep.

Jenna Cotrell (16:08)

Okay.

Dan Fates (16:09)

That was like very surprising to me. I guess I didn't expect to hear like, obviously.

Jenna Cotrell (16:14)

Oh, you're saying what they.

Dan Fates (16:15)

I'm not trying to rehash all of it again. I'm just saying at the owner's meeting, it's just, yeah, this guy will be ready for that. This guy will be ready for this. We're looking into this, we're looking into that. All this for him. For them to say we're already planning on him missing training camp days to. To take it easy was not what I expected.

Mike Catalana (16:32)

They put themselves in that spot a little bit because, you know, Brandon announced that they picked up the fifth year option. I mean, he said, we've picked up the fifth year option. The only reason I'm saying is it brings Kincaid and all that. But they obviously are pretty comfortable telling everybody where he is right now. So, hey, you never know. He gets into the summer, gets into training camps. It calms down, he's feeling better. It could go in a positive direction. It just for a year. Plus it hasn't.

Dan Fates (16:59)

So yeah, we're not in the building.

Mike Catalana (17:01)

Yep.

Dan Fates (17:03)

So get you a shirt that says two things can be true and then on the back it says at the same time,

Jenna Cotrell (17:12)

I do think we. We were surprised to hear about Kincaid and the limitations that could possibly be set. I was not surprised the Keon came up.

Mike Catalana (17:21)

Oh, my God. I know.

Jenna Cotrell (17:23)

And look, they're asked about him, so it makes sense. They have to respond. Joe Brady on Keon Coleman. He's going to continue to develop and we have a great plan of what we're going to be able get him. We're going to do to be able to get him to be the receiver we ultimately drafted him to be.

Mike Catalana (17:39)

So already I can just sense people going, why are you guys talking about him? Because they are. I'll agree with you on that a little bit. What I was thinking about is, man, if I'm a player on the team, I'm like, they know the stuff Keon has not done to the standard the Bills want. They know what the team did by sitting him down multiple times. And then you're sitting there going, why is this guy getting so much? I won't even say love. It's almost like support. Support and respect. Look, I think in general the team supports and respects their players. I'm not saying that and I'm not even going to name an individual guy. But there's players that are probably sitting there going, man, I show up, I do my job and, and it's just non stop. And I don't buy this whole idea of, well, maybe they're trying to prop up his value for a trade. I mean, how much are you going to change what the league's perception of it is? If a team wants Keon, it's probably somebody, if they were looking to trade him, it's somebody who liked him coming out of the draft and thinks they're going to get him on the cheap. They're not giving up a ton of assets. It's not going to move that much. It may be, if they ever did it, it was going to be that. I don't think you spend all this time and effort pumping him up to think you're going to move him from a 5th round pick to a 4th round pick if you were going to make a trade. I'm, I'm stunned that this is the, you know, Joe Brady starting his coaching career as a head coach is so tied into this. Like I stood up, I wanted him

Dan Fates (19:14)

fully hitched his wagon.

Mike Catalana (19:16)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (19:16)

Keon Coleman and I, I don't, I

Mike Catalana (19:21)

just don't get it. Other players have not worked out that you drafted relatively high. It's happened. We just saw it with Kair who did stay for basically his whole contract or close.

Dan Fates (19:31)

Did everything right off the field.

Mike Catalana (19:33)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (19:34)

Just didn't have it really just wasn't good enough.

Mike Catalana (19:37)

Yeah, right.

Dan Fates (19:39)

And to go a little bit further off your point, Mike, I'm not surprised that we talked about. They tried the stick. Now they're trying to carry it to show him the love to try and get the most out of him. What I am surprised is to the extent that they've done it in Joe specifically because he's talking at the owner's meeting and then not only is he saying the player on the field that we're going to get him to be. And he doesn't even address really the off the field stuff says, you know, that's one thing. Like, we're going to work on that. But the player that he can be on the field and then he makes the comparisons to. He's got a lot of the similar makeup to Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase. Why. Why do you have to go to that level?

Jenna Cotrell (20:26)

Wait, where was that?

Dan Fates (20:28)

You didn't see that?

Jenna Cotrell (20:29)

No.

Dan Fates (20:30)

Said that it reminded him a lot of the makeup that Keon is. Is comparing him to when he was with Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase.

Mike Catalana (20:38)

Now, I guess in context, he's not saying they're. He's.

Dan Fates (20:43)

Why, why, why Put him in the same.

Mike Catalana (20:44)

I know. Because.

Dan Fates (20:45)

Same sentence. That. That's. That's where I'm stunned. If you want to say, I love this guy, I support him, I'm the best thing for him, that's fine. Don't throw those names.

Mike Catalana (20:57)

Yeah, you see, I mean, they both play wide receiver.

Dan Fates (21:01)

I guess that.

Mike Catalana (21:02)

And they both have played for Joe Brady.

Dan Fates (21:03)

That's. That's where I was. Like, we don't need to go that far.

Mike Catalana (21:09)

They're. They're just trying too hard on this. Keon's on the roster. If he plays well, it's going to look a lot better than it did last year. Right. If he does his job and he plays, he'll be on the roster. He'll get snaps, whatever it is. I don't. I really don't understand why they feel so driven to be so publicly supportive of him. Because I think the fan base, and I don't pretend to speak for everybody, is sort of looking at Keon like, right. Like, if he's good, great. If he's not, let's draft another guy in the first round or the third round.

Dan Fates (21:47)

So I have. Jenna gave me that look like, I can't believe Dan. Like, what are you saying?

Jenna Cotrell (21:51)

Well, I just.

Mike Catalana (21:52)

They thought maybe we were going to get a. Yeah, it is April Fool.

Dan Fates (21:56)

Okay, so.

Mike Catalana (21:56)

Right.

Dan Fates (21:56)

So he said. We're in constant communication with him. Brady said, who added, Coleman's personality and work ethic reminds him of the wide receiver seat coached at lsu, which included Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson. It's now just about just making sure I'm there, doing what I have to do so I can go on the football field and do my thing again. You can say all of those things and leave out two of the best wide receivers in the NFL.

Mike Catalana (22:20)

I look at their wide receiver room right now, and I go, he's Fourth at best, Right.

Dan Fates (22:28)

Yeah. The expectation. To me, the bar is so low for Keon Coleman.

Mike Catalana (22:33)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (22:33)

Of what my expectations are for the impact he will have on this season. Anything that you can get out of him is a bonus.

Jenna Cotrell (22:40)

I agree. I think it's all found money because of what the level of play was. I mean, I hear what you're saying about the Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson. I guess when I heard that, I was like, oh, okay. But I. I was. I think he meant it as, like, you're right, because Jamara Chase and Justin Jefferson are at. Are amazing, and they were at lsu.

Mike Catalana (23:02)

Right.

Jenna Cotrell (23:03)

But

Mike Catalana (23:06)

I just don't understand why less is more.

Dan Fates (23:09)

Take a pitch.

Mike Catalana (23:10)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (23:12)

I. I agree.

Mike Catalana (23:13)

It's almost like it's. If I was Keon, I would be

Jenna Cotrell (23:16)

like, okay, can we stop talking about me?

Mike Catalana (23:18)

Stop talking about me.

Jenna Cotrell (23:19)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (23:19)

Again, Joe talked about him for, like, three minutes, and, like, he's talked about him at a lot of points. When he was introduced as head coach, he made, you know, said that him being the head coach is the best thing for him. The points have been made about Joe's thoughts about Keon and his feelings on Keon. Let it be now. Let the player and his play on the field decide his future.

Mike Catalana (23:44)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (23:45)

You make the point, though. If I'm another player in that locker room, though, and I'm seeing all the support that I would just be. I would be like, are you kidding me, dude? They're. They're handing you this on a. A silver platter. Figure it out. Why does this guy get so much support and other guys don't?

Mike Catalana (24:00)

And. And I'm.

Dan Fates (24:00)

We've talked more about Keon than Josh, than anybody, any player.

Mike Catalana (24:05)

I like that. You know, it's just funny. There's guys who just. Look at James Cook, man. Just took care of his business, got paid. You don't hear boo out of him. He just plays. Osiris Torrance is going to get paid by somebody just plays. I'm not saying everybody's. Keon's not the one talking.

Jenna Cotrell (24:22)

No. He is probably just so annoyed where it's like, okay, okay, I know you

Mike Catalana (24:27)

support me, but it's sort of creating a weird bar for him that he doesn't need. He just needs to come in, do his job, play, show up, show up, play well, do what's asked of you. And then it could get better. He does have physical ability. Maybe with DJ Moore in the lineup, it adds something. I. I'm just saying that doesn't mean it can't happen. But it's find a role. Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (24:50)

Take a pitch. Take a pitch.

Mike Catalana (24:52)

Khalil Shakir is the coolest guy on the team. He's never going to say a word. But if I'd be like, all I do is show up and catch everything that's thrown to me. Right. And nobody has to say a word about Shakir.

Jenna Cotrell (25:03)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (25:03)

And this is why I'm saying it's not Keon talk and it's the Bills talk. Just. Just let it go for a little while. And I know somebody's thinking, well, you guys always ask him about it.

Jenna Cotrell (25:13)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (25:13)

But the answer could be a much simpler answer.

Jenna Cotrell (25:15)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (25:16)

You guys know I support Keon. We're looking forward to what he's going to do.

Jenna Cotrell (25:18)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (25:19)

That's it. That would be fine.

Dan Fates (25:21)

Remember when Sean, whenever we would ask him about a player, he would lump in the entire group of position. The position.

Mike Catalana (25:27)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (25:27)

Hey, what have you seen about James Cook, Tyrell Shavers, Josh Allen?

Mike Catalana (25:32)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (25:32)

The whole. The whole quarterback room's working really hard. And, you know, I have a lot of faith in all of those guys there, Josh included. You're like, got it. That was like looking for. You're at those times, you're fishing for a sound bite. And he would lump the whole unit in and he'd be like, I just wanted to know Tyrell Shavers. He had a good game.

Jenna Cotrell (25:49)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (25:49)

A lot of guys had good games. Tyrell made a nice play.

Mike Catalana (25:52)

I always think if you asked about, like, his son, he'd be like my son. Like other children in the world.

Jenna Cotrell (25:59)

Yes. No, that's true. In terms of. We can talk more about wide receiver. Brandon Bean did say that they are not out on drafting a receiver at 26. I wasn't surprised to hear that.

Mike Catalana (26:10)

No. And oddly, the where they are right now, they have needs. I think they're more on the defensive side, though. I would still love to see a wide receiver early because they haven't done that. Except for Keon. But they. They only right now, I know people. I keep thinking about what. Because they're going to be all, Mike's complaining about that second round pick again. But it does kind of hurt that you're going one till late third to pick. So if you take a wide receiver and then Jim Leonard's gonna be sitting there going, what about me? What am I getting here by the end of day two, if that's what they do. But we, you know, from combine, there's a few guys, man, if they're up on that board, defensive side, offensive side.

Jenna Cotrell (26:57)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (26:58)

Concepcion Concepcion is

Dan Fates (27:03)

Boston.

Mike Catalana (27:04)

I know Boston Cooper is the guy for me.

Jenna Cotrell (27:07)

Omar Cooper Jr. I have seen some mocks where he is.

Mike Catalana (27:09)

Tyson's an interesting one. Injury history. Yep. He's got incredible talent. Like, I do think if, if you're sitting there, you're like, it really is a the board thing here because they're going to have pass rushers. They have needs. Some people push back on safety. I'm like, I don't know if you would take them with your first pick, but I would. That second round pick would have been the spot maybe if they were to trade back. But like they have a need at safety.

Dan Fates (27:40)

Yes.

Mike Catalana (27:41)

Like Gardner Johnson is here. He's on a one year deal because he's always on a one year deal no matter what the contract says. So they could be looking for another safety, but I don't know. I think it's fine that everybody thinks they could take a receiver. I would still be surprised if they did that in the first round.

Dan Fates (28:00)

Yeah, I'd be surprised. I would be lying if I said I wasn't getting my hopes up again.

Jenna Cotrell (28:05)

Yeah, it would be fun in the year. We're like, well, they could go this or that. They're like, you know what, we'll take a receiver. That would be pretty funny.

Dan Fates (28:14)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (28:14)

A bit ironic.

Mike Catalana (28:16)

My. I'm. I'm working on my mock draft. It's been pretty, pretty good the last few years.

Jenna Cotrell (28:21)

It actually has been.

Mike Catalana (28:22)

But it's not necessarily about getting the Bills picks right. I'm just pretty confident in my ability to make some moves, talk to some of the other. You know, we know GMs, we know GMS, we know GMs around the league. I make a few calls.

Jenna Cotrell (28:35)

Yeah. Get the hook up.

Mike Catalana (28:37)

Yeah. And I.

Jenna Cotrell (28:37)

You've actually had some pretty good picks.

Mike Catalana (28:39)

Some pretty good picks. Made some trades, moved up, moved back. I hope you guys have all enjoyed having Em and Brian Thomas on your roster. Oh, well, I brought those guys in.

Dan Fates (28:50)

Well, how much longer you gonna hang your head on Brian Thomas?

Jenna Cotrell (28:54)

That's also not a second team.

Dan Fates (28:56)

I think that.

Jenna Cotrell (28:56)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (28:57)

That moves into the. I don't know, Jim.

Mike Catalana (29:00)

Did you want him?

Dan Fates (29:01)

Yep.

Jenna Cotrell (29:01)

Yeah, that would be pretty. That would be pretty sweet.

Dan Fates (29:04)

You don't get a ton of like, I knew Kyle Hamilton. I. I thought Kyle Hamilton was going to be a star.

Mike Catalana (29:09)

I think he'd go 14.

Dan Fates (29:10)

I. I love him.

Mike Catalana (29:12)

He went high, though. But you think they regret that pick.

Jenna Cotrell (29:15)

No, no. He went high, though.

Mike Catalana (29:18)

He did. Fourteen is high. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay.

Dan Fates (29:21)

But instantly turned into an all Pro.

Jenna Cotrell (29:23)

Yeah, I did think it was interesting Brandon Bean kept in touch with Brandon Cooks.

Mike Catalana (29:27)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (29:27)

Put any stock into that.

Mike Catalana (29:29)

I liked Brandon Cooks last year.

Dan Fates (29:30)

I know you did.

Mike Catalana (29:31)

You don't.

Dan Fates (29:33)

I want new. I want fresh. I want a young, wide receiving core. That's not. That's. And again, we talked about it when. I know one of you were on vacation, and then she was on vacation.

Jenna Cotrell (29:47)

I was on vacation.

Dan Fates (29:49)

Some people don't take vacations. I mean, whatever. My kids.

Jenna Cotrell (29:54)

Hey, we went to Trampoline Park.

Dan Fates (29:55)

We did go to the trampoline Park. That wasn't a vacation.

Jenna Cotrell (29:57)

That's not a vacation.

Mike Catalana (29:59)

Oh, by the way, speaking of that, I heard you mention on the podcast when I wasn't here about, oh, Mike's on vacation. Not like me, where I got little kids. I had two little kids with me on this vacation.

Dan Fates (30:09)

Yes.

Mike Catalana (30:10)

But it was Grandpop world.

Jenna Cotrell (30:11)

Yeah. Very, very different.

Dan Fates (30:13)

But everything that Bean was talking kind of about, the owners meetings was something that we kind of pointed out at, like, this is like, the lull of the free agency. He talks about being in contact with Shaq Thompson as well as in contact with some interior linemen, some wide receivers. Brandon Cook's obviously one of them, but kind of, okay. Those guys didn't get the money they were looking for. Now let's see where teams are after the draft depth chart position. I think that's where we kind of said, like, agents are also telling their guys, like, hey, let's see. Let's see what depth charts look like after certain teams. Because that was. And I mentioned it, that pod that, you know, Elijah Moore was signed the day after the draft because they didn't get any wide receivers. So Brandon was saying the way they stack their board, how things shake out in the draft over the entire weekend, then they may get in touch with Shaq and other guys.

Mike Catalana (30:59)

And there's times they literally signed during the draft.

Dan Fates (31:03)

Yep.

Mike Catalana (31:03)

Like, you've seen that. You know, it's like all of a sudden, it's like, wait a minute. The Bills are signing, like, you bring in a player they've been talking to. So. Yeah, because, well, we got time to talk about the draft, but I mean, their needs. Their more immediate needs are. Are on defense, right?

Jenna Cotrell (31:22)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (31:23)

I mean, they need edge, rusher, defense. Another defensive tackle certainly need another corner. This could be in. Still in free agency or maybe even deals, but they still got a lot of needs there.

Dan Fates (31:36)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (31:37)

I thought it was interesting. Joe Brady talked about his relationship with Josh Allen, especially now being head coach and someone at the owner's meeting just asked how that relationship has kind of grown and changed. And Brady said he did note that he hates that Josh calls him coach now, which I. I thought was kind of. That made me kind of laugh because I was like, well, it is a difference. You are now his head coach. But he also said that they had a conversation after Brady got the job that. Yes, did. Like, yes, Josh was saying that he did not help Brady get the job. It was Joe Brady who had won that job. But they also had a conversation about making sure they were keeping things like, honest with one another because there's going to be disagreements. That's just natural. It's a highly competitive world, but how they can navigate that. And Mike, I mean, that relationship has changed from quarterback coach to OC and now OC to the biggest jump of head coach. But that changes how these two will interact with one another.

Mike Catalana (32:36)

So Sean McDermott got some criticism from some parts that saying that, you know, he didn't defer to everything for Josh. Me trying to think how. How that is phrased.

Jenna Cotrell (32:49)

Yeah. That I have a take about that. But, yeah, we don't have to get into it.

Mike Catalana (32:53)

Well, the idea of you've got this unicorn quarterback and everything goes to Josh is great team guy, everything about it.

Jenna Cotrell (33:02)

You.

Mike Catalana (33:03)

The only thing he might need is somebody that is going to keep him accountable. Right. And I do think he respected Shawn McDermott and it was not. There's no doubt. He was his coach.

Jenna Cotrell (33:17)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (33:17)

Not his friend. And I. This is not a criticism of Josh Allen at all. But he's so good and so important to the team. He needs at times, I think, to still be reset and put on the right path. He's still a. Is he 30 now?

Jenna Cotrell (33:35)

He'll be 30 this month.

Mike Catalana (33:36)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (33:37)

How does time work?

Jenna Cotrell (33:38)

He will be older at the end

Mike Catalana (33:40)

of the month than he is now.

Jenna Cotrell (33:42)

I believe his birthday is in May, though.

Mike Catalana (33:43)

Yeah, it is. So he's. It's coming up where he's going to turn 30. But that's. This is a very, very important thing for Joe Brady. And I don't know if you just change your relationship, but it should evolve.

Dan Fates (33:56)

It needs to.

Mike Catalana (33:57)

But when I say just change, you don't just come in and go, we don't talk like this anymore. You know what I mean? Like that.

Dan Fates (34:02)

But it's an interesting dynamic, especially because

Mike Catalana (34:04)

you start out as quarterbacks coach and move to O.C. you've moved up the ranks, but, you know, with a different player.

Dan Fates (34:11)

That's so unique.

Mike Catalana (34:12)

It is very. Yeah. It just doesn't happen very often. Guys have gone. He's gone right up the ranks there as to be the head coach with the same quarterback in that way. And he's so important with the franchise in that way. So I don't know how it. It could need something. It's funny if. If it was Josh just doing that to sort of say, like, calling you coach now. But I do think some of that stuff needs to be defined. Yeah. And it needs to be changed. And their relationship needs to be different because you're coaching the entire team and he is the most important player. And if you really want to hold each other accountable, everything Josh does isn't great. It's pretty close, but everything is not great. And I think you need to show the whole team that, at least that

Jenna Cotrell (35:03)

is what I'm so interested in, is when there is, like, a disagreement, how that will be handled by both sides, because it's one thing. I think you can kind of be like good cop, bad cop with Sean McDermott, where it's like, yeah, you know, he's making me do this, or, you know, whatever. This is just me saying this for the example. But when there is that, like, hey, we got to do it this way. And there's like, well, why are we doing it this way? That is something that I'm so curious to see how will play out, because that can set the tone for everything.

Dan Fates (35:37)

I remember being at camp and being closer, obviously, than we are at normal practices. There were times when Sean would pull the first team offense off the field after a false start or a bad snap or something like that. I remember Josh would go at Sean. It was like. It was an animated conversation of Sean, be Josh being like, we need to get working, and Sean kind of being like, then you get your guys figured out, because I'm not going to cater to what you want because it's what we need. And I'm the coach.

Mike Catalana (36:07)

That's what a coach does.

Dan Fates (36:08)

And that. And this goes into the bigger picture.

Mike Catalana (36:11)

I just did Joe Biden there, didn't I?

Jenna Cotrell (36:14)

What?

Mike Catalana (36:14)

I did the whisper.

Dan Fates (36:16)

Yeah, but, like, we're kind of talking about it. And this goes into how much we've seen of Joe, what we've heard, players and former players.

Mike Catalana (36:24)

I'm gonna get fined.

Jenna Cotrell (36:26)

Yeah. Michael, turn off your phone now.

Mike Catalana (36:29)

It's my wife.

Jenna Cotrell (36:30)

Don't blame Jenny for this.

Mike Catalana (36:32)

Well, it was her.

Dan Fates (36:34)

What I wanted to say was. And this was kind of. This goes back to, you know, we've heard every interview from current players, former players. Joe Brady is so cool. Joe, Joe Brady has a swagger. Joe Brady has all these things and juice. You know, we still don't know how he is. And that happens with most first time head coaches. How he is as a leader of men. You knew what Sean had as a leader of men and that he cultivated that over his time. Right. And so that's where it still is, trying to figure it out. And Joe is really cool and all this stuff, but that doesn't automatically translate into being a leader and being a head coach. And to have those tough conversations. And you can think about it as Joe Brady right now on April 1st of 2026, like he is, he's a players coach right now. Like there's no question about it. The way that even we've already talked about the way he talks about Keon, the way that he is, said Josh is so tough he couldn't even walk around with his foot. Couldn't even walk. Hey, Joe, we saw him practice three times a week. He was, he was fine. Yeah, he was injured. There's no question. But Joe goes above and beyond for his guys. It's the same way he's gone to bat this offseason for Keon and things like that. That doesn't necessarily mean. And he may, and that may translate. All I'm saying is posing the question of we don't know how that is. And there are connections that you can have with players. That is great and the juice and the energy that you bring. But when push comes to shove, do you know what players like winning? And you know, I know what players would much rather have as players who they'd rather have. Andy Reid or Mike McDonald or Mike McDaniels.

Mike Catalana (38:26)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (38:27)

Rather have Andy.

Mike Catalana (38:28)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (38:29)

Because he can coach. So you have to figure out that grand scheme of things. We're still trying to solve that riddle of what you're going to see out of this team.

Jenna Cotrell (38:42)

Two things.

Dan Fates (38:43)

One, are they true at the same time? Yes, of course they are.

Jenna Cotrell (38:49)

Well, it's a question.

Mike Catalana (38:50)

Yes.

Jenna Cotrell (38:51)

What this is and this will play out. Joe Brady is one of the boys, but can he be a leader of men? And, and also, what did I say to you off camera before we started this pod? You know what kills culture the fastest? Losing.

Dan Fates (39:07)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (39:07)

The Bills. We know the culture that they have that did not leave when Shawn McDermott left the building. But losing can destroy a culture so quickly. And I, I, that's one thing that does concern me now. This is again, this is like we're talking about our fears and our anxieties about the Future. And that's not to see. To say that that will happen, but that is a real byproduct if this team is not successful, because that is the truth.

Mike Catalana (39:37)

Sean McDermit's superpower was to never let it go south.

Dan Fates (39:41)

Yep.

Mike Catalana (39:42)

Did they? From the first year on, from 2018 on, they never lost three in a row, which is wild.

Dan Fates (39:51)

And to hold a culture through losing.

Mike Catalana (39:53)

Yeah, that. That's the thing is Joe's going to be tested, like all of them are there. It's funny you mentioned Andy Reid. So go back to his Eagles days when he was first coaching the Eagles, and Sean, I think, was there probably as an intern in the beginning, maybe not the first year. I can remember as he had this offensive lineman named George Hegeman. They had gotten him from the Cowboys, and the guy screwed up in practice, and Andy was doing. Because Andy was not expected to be a head coach. He was a quarterback's coach, and he got plucked out of Green Bay, made as a head coach, and he made this guy do the drills, like with the. With the sled, by himself, like, sort of embarrassed him on the field and then cut him the next day. And it did not go over well in Philly with the players, because Andy, at the time. I'm not saying Joe's doing this. I'm saying is at the time, was trying to prove to everybody he's the head coach. And I think he wanted to take this big swing and say, I'm going to do this and I'm going to show everybody. That was a long time ago and all, but sometimes I worry about that. I have always told you, that's Greg Williams. Did he want it? Because he was sort of. You know, he's like this sort of unknown defensive coordinator. Bill's made him a head coach, and I thought that was his weakness. He was trying to show he was the head coach. Joe's in a different spot because they already know him, but at some point, we'll see what that shift is from him. When he's standing in front of the room, he's. He'll have those moments coming up in the spring. But there's one thing in the spring, there's another thing. After, you know, you're two and three after a tough loss.

Dan Fates (41:28)

Baltimore, whatever it is, point lead in the fourth quarter.

Mike Catalana (41:30)

It happens to even the best of teams.

Jenna Cotrell (41:33)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (41:33)

How do you get them back? He has not been put in hot water in that way as the head coach yet. So it's. It's that idea of. And again, what you Find your footing. My worry for Joe is it he's trying to find his footing. And that treadmill is going fast.

Jenna Cotrell (41:51)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (41:52)

Like, correct this, this team is expected to challenge for the super bowl as he's walking in year one. That's tough.

Jenna Cotrell (41:57)

To give Joe Brady credit, though he does have a really good rapport with the players. Yes. And I think that is important.

Dan Fates (42:07)

Well, yeah, but we just spent the last three minutes or five minutes explaining that it's a different rapport.

Jenna Cotrell (42:14)

Yeah, I. I agree. I agree. But I think it can even be

Dan Fates (42:17)

more trickier to navigate.

Jenna Cotrell (42:19)

I agree that it's more tricky, but I think if you actually have a rapport with someone, you can have hard conversations. I'm trying to give him a little bit of this.

Dan Fates (42:29)

I do not want this to come across as, like, bashing Joe Brady. That's not it. With just as we've heard more and more over these last few months, in last few weeks, I'm just reflecting on again, on what Joe Brady has in front of him, and he's aware. He understands the expectations. He. Like you said, I'm not going to shy away from it, but it's almost like you're going from that friend zone to a relationship. It can be kind of messy to navigate. Where are those conversations?

Mike Catalana (42:57)

And you stay in the friend zone a lot. Do you remember those? Do you remember those times?

Dan Fates (43:02)

You never did.

Jenna Cotrell (43:03)

Okay, wait, this is funny. I was thinking about this, like, with Keon, and this is not to say, but the Bills fell in love with his potential. I've fallen in love with the. The potential of a lot of men. Didn't end up marrying them, but I thought that was a little on the nose.

Dan Fates (43:18)

There's the open.

Jenna Cotrell (43:21)

Don't do that. What were you saying?

Dan Fates (43:24)

I think.

Mike Catalana (43:24)

No, I was. I was agreeing with you. And what Jenna's point is, he does have a good relationship. It's how he evolves it to be the head coach, and that's up to him. And it is. I won't say it's not easy now, but it's certainly easier. You're just establishing you've been around. It's. It really starts getting tough when, you know, middle of camp to when the season starts. Yep. You're making decisions, and that's where you just have to. You do treat people differently. Your responsibilities are so different. You are pulled in a million directions as the head coach. That's going to take a bit of a learning curve, and he's trying to do it on the fly. So. Yeah, we'll see.

Jenna Cotrell (44:07)

Anything else you want to.

Dan Fates (44:08)

No, I just think, like I said, it's. It's almost like at some capacity, you would think that it's easier to just have somebody brand new come in, you get to know them as their role. Joe is now. Joe's now been three different roles amongst people and in this building. And maybe that helps him because he's gone from the quarterback, where he's just dealing, the quarterback coach, just dealing with Josh, to then dealing with the entire offense, to now dealing with the entire team. And maybe that can be something that he's been able to navigate. But a lot of times, you know, you talk about the shanahan in the McVeigh tree. It's been a quarterbacks coach at one, Bill at one organization, and then it's an offensive court at another, and then it's another, and then it's another. And so you. You kind of get a fresh start to make a first impression at everywhere you go, Joe's impression is already there. And that, I feel like, can be a little bit tricky to navigate. All of these are hypothetical questions that, that we're just posing of the challenges that Joe will face. Amongst them, being with a team that has super bowl expirations, aspirations. I know. I was cooking there, and then I got all.

Jenna Cotrell (45:19)

Sorry, I just.

Mike Catalana (45:21)

Jim, to your point.

Dan Fates (45:22)

No, I just figure

Mike Catalana (45:26)

inside joke, to your point. Jim Leonard can do that. Jim Leonard was a former player in Buffalo, but it's a long time ago, coached in other places. Walks in as the defensive coordinator, so the defensive players will just know him as the defensive coordinator. He doesn't have to. He's not elevated in the building with a lot of the same players, so. Time for some life advice.

Jenna Cotrell (45:49)

Yeah. Did you see the April Fools joke from the Bills about the Joe Brady snow pants? It was a pair of shorts.

Mike Catalana (45:57)

Yeah, I know.

Jenna Cotrell (45:58)

Yeah, it's fine.

Mike Catalana (46:01)

Fine. Also, Dion tried out.

Jenna Cotrell (46:04)

Oh, yeah. Dion. Yeah.

Dan Fates (46:07)

I love Dion. Dion's a showman.

Jenna Cotrell (46:10)

Yeah, the snowman. The showman. That's way too hard to say.

Dan Fates (46:15)

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Catalana (46:17)

That he was traded to the Dolphins for a second round pick. Right?

Dan Fates (46:20)

Yeah. DN went on a live stream. Said some things, upset some people.

Jenna Cotrell (46:25)

Well, he's playing the heel. I could see him doing wrestling after. Oh, yeah.

Mike Catalana (46:30)

Like.

Dan Fates (46:30)

Yeah, acting after.

Jenna Cotrell (46:32)

Well, after the. Yeah, acting. Okay. This is so life advice.

Dan Fates (46:37)

Be sure to comment in with thoughts on Keon, thoughts on Kincaid, all this stuff as we put a bow. Sorry, I'm just trying to put a bow. As we transition to. Yes, life advice. I don't Mean to step on the horseless toads as I just keep talking over Mike. Just keep talking. You just keep. You just keep talking. And then she doesn't get a word in

Mike Catalana (46:59)

heybuffaloplusgmail.com.

Jenna Cotrell (47:02)

yes, if you have a life advice

Dan Fates (47:04)

or anything else that you want.

Jenna Cotrell (47:08)

No, if you have a question for us on life advice, send in your email to heybuffaloplusgmail.com. this one is from Ryan. He's a devoted listener from Virginia here. My wife and I are expecting our third child and we've been discussing baby names. If our baby is a boy, we are in trouble because we have not been able to see eye to eye on any names. However, we recently found a name we like. We vaguely know a person from high school who had this name, which admittedly, isn't that weird. However, we've decided that this name we like is more of a middle name.

Mike Catalana (47:44)

And.

Jenna Cotrell (47:44)

And if we use it, we would position it as the middle name, but refer to our son as the middle name. My wife chose the name Daniel to be the first name followed by the middle name.

Mike Catalana (47:55)

We would actually so automatically, his name is Daniel. And they don't want to say Daniel. They want to give him another name.

Jenna Cotrell (48:00)

Yeah, anything but that.

Mike Catalana (48:02)

Yes.

Jenna Cotrell (48:02)

I then revealed that this name is the same name, first and middle, as a dude we know from high school. And it's the same situation for him. Neither of us were close to this guy and we haven't seen or heard from him in over a decade. Is this weird?

Dan Fates (48:17)

Not at all. Go with the name that you like. There's too many people in this world that you may come across. And I know this firsthand from my wife being a teacher. So there were names that I liked that she would say. I had this kid that that was named this. And we can't do that because that kid was the worst. And that was like.

Mike Catalana (48:40)

Your wife never said a kid was the worst.

Dan Fates (48:44)

Paraphrasing. She did not like that student. And so she's like, no, I always think that I was like, in 30 years, you're not going to remember that student. It'll be our child's name.

Mike Catalana (48:53)

Yeah, but they're talking about someone they actually know with the same first and

Jenna Cotrell (48:57)

middle name, but the person goes by the middle name, which is what they would want for their son.

Mike Catalana (49:02)

So it's.

Jenna Cotrell (49:03)

But they haven't. They. It's a high school person that they haven't.

Mike Catalana (49:06)

But they're going to post it on Facebook and then that guy's going to See it? And he's like, look at this.

Dan Fates (49:11)

Statute of limitations is gone. Go with the name that you like.

Mike Catalana (49:14)

Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Jenna Cotrell (49:16)

No, no, I get it. That guy be like, wow, I made

Mike Catalana (49:18)

quite an impression on him.

Jenna Cotrell (49:21)

I think it's totally fine. It's hard. Names are really hard. So I feel like if you like, I. I love the name Shane for a boy.

Mike Catalana (49:29)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (49:29)

Can't do that because. Damn. Not pregnant. But like, just in general, I do think, like, if you find a name that you really like and you're. I feel like it is hard to have your spouse agree on a name. So if you find one you like, you haven't talked to them in a decade.

Mike Catalana (49:42)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (49:43)

Go for it.

Mike Catalana (49:44)

Don't tell as few people as possible what the name is.

Jenna Cotrell (49:48)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (49:48)

Because I've heard them say it. And then they have. Somebody in your life is going to say, oh, I hate that name. You know, like that's. That happened to you.

Dan Fates (49:58)

All of our names are unisex names. That's what we liked.

Jenna Cotrell (50:02)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (50:03)

And certain family members, some may be closer than others in our family were like, that's. That's a boy's name for Shane.

Jenna Cotrell (50:13)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (50:14)

It was like, oh, we like Shane. And that was it. We were pretty much on the same page with all of our girls names. We never got on the same page with a boy's name.

Jenna Cotrell (50:24)

Yeah. Boys names, I feel like are hard.

Dan Fates (50:27)

I loved Jackson and Renee was like, there's so many Jacksons out there. And I was like, Jackson Daniel and that we could call him J.D.

Jenna Cotrell (50:36)

jack Daniels.

Dan Fates (50:37)

Okay, well, don't go. I mean, that wasn't exact, but it would be J.D.

Mike Catalana (50:40)

essentially, you just named your kid after whiskey.

Dan Fates (50:44)

That's a sick name.

Mike Catalana (50:48)

Jack Daniels. You named your kid.

Dan Fates (50:51)

I will say when you go with unisex names too, what we've come in.

Jenna Cotrell (50:54)

You gotta have a. Yeah. The middle name is important.

Dan Fates (50:57)

All of ours. Very girly.

Jenna Cotrell (50:59)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (50:59)

So Shane Marie.

Jenna Cotrell (51:00)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (51:01)

Ryan Page.

Jenna Cotrell (51:02)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (51:03)

Taylor Jean.

Jenna Cotrell (51:04)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (51:04)

All of them were very much in that sense. But when we call up for like doctor's appointments and things like that and be like, oh, bring Taylor in. What's his name? Or specifically for Ryan, What's Ryan's. What's his date of birth?

Jenna Cotrell (51:17)

Oh, yeah, it's tough.

Dan Fates (51:18)

Just. You just go with it for a little bit.

Jenna Cotrell (51:20)

Yeah. That's like my girlfriend Logan, she has. Michelle is her middle name and she will put that on like her emails for work because people.

Mike Catalana (51:29)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (51:29)

Refer to her the wrong way.

Mike Catalana (51:31)

So. So you're got. You're good with this.

Dan Fates (51:34)

Go with the name. Just because it's a decade. Somebody you went to school with, you'll.

Jenna Cotrell (51:38)

Yeah. I feel. I get why you're like, is this weird? But like, heat check. It's fine.

Mike Catalana (51:43)

I'm curious how they knew the guy's middle name. Like, did you know your friends middle names?

Jenna Cotrell (51:48)

I guess I just said how I knew my friend's middle name.

Mike Catalana (51:50)

Yeah, but you're a friend. Like, they said they weren't that close to this guy.

Jenna Cotrell (51:54)

I feel like, like when you're growing up, maybe on Facebook, a lot of people use the middle name. Or like, maybe they went to a smaller school and they knew this guy's. He went by his middle name, so maybe they knew that his name was different. It is funny though. Like, your name. There's some names that you see, you're like, oh, it's a cool name. And then you hear it in the wild and you're like, what in the wild? What is your name?

Dan Fates (52:19)

Did you ever have that? Obviously with. Were the two that have named other.

Jenna Cotrell (52:25)

Yes. Yeah. I've only named dogs.

Dan Fates (52:27)

There is funny, there is this moment where like you may be in between on two names and. And now like, Ryan couldn't be anything but.

Mike Catalana (52:35)

Oh, of course.

Jenna Cotrell (52:36)

100 Ryan is Orion.

Dan Fates (52:38)

Right. Where you're like, this is Ryan like that, Shane.

Mike Catalana (52:41)

Like you.

Dan Fates (52:42)

But in the beginning, you're like, I don't know, you kind of see the baby and you're like, can you tell?

Jenna Cotrell (52:47)

People are like, I knew it wasn't an. Like, I. My. My uncle was like, I knew your cousin wasn't an Emma. They changed her name on the fly. I'm like, it's you.

Dan Fates (52:57)

I know. Shane. We were fully in on Ryan. I think we had two going in. I think I like, I think there were two name plates that we brought.

Jenna Cotrell (53:06)

Oh, okay.

Dan Fates (53:06)

And then it was like, this is. This is Ryan.

Jenna Cotrell (53:08)

Okay.

Mike Catalana (53:09)

H. You brought two name plates, huh? Really?

Jenna Cotrell (53:13)

It's like the Etsy. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Catalana (53:15)

Undecided.

Dan Fates (53:16)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (53:16)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (53:17)

You had. I like your daughter's names.

Mike Catalana (53:19)

We had it basically picked.

Jenna Cotrell (53:21)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (53:23)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (53:24)

They're all cc's.

Mike Catalana (53:25)

Ccs. Carly Courtney.

Jenna Cotrell (53:28)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (53:28)

Catalano.

Jenna Cotrell (53:29)

Yeah.

Mike Catalana (53:29)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (53:29)

It's a good name.

Mike Catalana (53:30)

Yeah. But we have my granddaughter's Blake Simone is her middle name.

Jenna Cotrell (53:37)

That's a cool name.

Mike Catalana (53:37)

That is her father's close relative first name. Great name.

Jenna Cotrell (53:43)

Yeah. That's a cool name there. Yeah.

Dan Fates (53:45)

I always wanted. With our naming, I wanted to make sure that there was something that. The full name and then there was like the nickname like I'm Daniel, but nobody calls me Daniel. My brother is Bradley. Nobody calls him.

Jenna Cotrell (53:58)

Your brother's name is Bradley.

Dan Fates (53:59)

Bradley. So. But like nobody. So even with Shane.

Jenna Cotrell (54:02)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (54:03)

I always thought it was going to be Shay. We're like, we can always go with like, we thought maybe. Maybe when she does go to high school, she wants to be Shay. But like, we wanted to have that. Ryan was always is Ry.

Jenna Cotrell (54:14)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (54:15)

And then Tay is Taylor is Tay.

Jenna Cotrell (54:17)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (54:17)

We always kind of thought of like.

Mike Catalana (54:18)

So you went crazy on these nicknames. He just shortened.

Dan Fates (54:21)

We just. Well, it wasn't like for Ry.

Jenna Cotrell (54:24)

We didn't.

Mike Catalana (54:25)

Ry or.

Dan Fates (54:26)

No, no. But like.

Jenna Cotrell (54:27)

No, I get it. I like when a name has a nickname.

Dan Fates (54:30)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (54:30)

Well, yes. Well, like a lot of people think Jenna is short for something, but my name is just Jenna.

Mike Catalana (54:36)

You're just Jenna?

Jenna Cotrell (54:37)

It's just.

Mike Catalana (54:37)

Yeah, it's just Jenna.

Jenna Cotrell (54:40)

But yeah, people like, oh, is it Jennifer? Is it Genevieve? It's like, what?

Dan Fates (54:44)

My dad is John.

Mike Catalana (54:47)

Right.

Dan Fates (54:48)

But he is Jack.

Mike Catalana (54:50)

Jack. That was big then. So for like John Kennedy was known as Jack. Like, it was Jack Kennedy.

Jenna Cotrell (54:57)

Really?

Mike Catalana (54:58)

Yeah. Jack is a nickname for John.

Dan Fates (55:00)

Right.

Mike Catalana (55:00)

At least it was. I don't know if as many people do that now.

Jenna Cotrell (55:03)

I didn't know that genuinely, but now

Dan Fates (55:04)

I think Jackson is a lot of kids full names and then they go by Jack. Oh, things like that.

Jenna Cotrell (55:09)

Jack is a good name.

Mike Catalana (55:11)

You should.

Dan Fates (55:12)

Did your family have anything like when you were naming Carly and Courtney, was there any, like family traditions that you had to follow for like middle names or anything like that?

Mike Catalana (55:21)

My. My girls are named. They're. My oldest is Carly is middle name is my mom's name and Courtney's Elizabeth, which was my grandmother's name. So we use those two.

Jenna Cotrell (55:34)

The moms.

Mike Catalana (55:35)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (55:35)

A nice move.

Mike Catalana (55:36)

Yeah, they like those.

Dan Fates (55:37)

Did you have something my family has a tradition of if there's a boy, his middle name is the father's first name.

Jenna Cotrell (55:48)

Oh, it's my brother.

Dan Fates (55:49)

Okay. So long story short, Brad should have been middle named John.

Mike Catalana (55:55)

Right.

Dan Fates (55:56)

Because that's. That's my dad's first name. There were two deaths in the family right before my brother was born. Both grandparents, both grandpas passed away like a month before. And so my dad went up to my mom's mom, who had just lost her husband and said, we want you to know that there's a tradition in my family. We want to honor George.

Mike Catalana (56:18)

Right.

Dan Fates (56:18)

So we're going. His name will be Bradley George.

Jenna Cotrell (56:21)

Oh, that's nice.

Dan Fates (56:22)

And then my dad went back to my mom and said, I messed that up, didn't I? It's not the grandfathers first name as the middle name.

Mike Catalana (56:30)

Right.

Dan Fates (56:30)

It's the father's name as the middle name. So then he didn't. They didn't obviously have the heart to. To change that. So he became Bradley George, and then I became Daniel John. As if.

Jenna Cotrell (56:43)

Okay.

Dan Fates (56:43)

It should have been all right. Yeah, it should have been John.

Jenna Cotrell (56:46)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (56:46)

But that's one of the things worked out.

Mike Catalana (56:48)

That's something you would have done. Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (56:51)

Apparently it runs in the family.

Dan Fates (56:52)

Eh. Well, we went with Gene for Taylor and thinking that it was my mom's mom and Renee's mom's mom's name. It's not my mom's baby.

Jenna Cotrell (57:04)

How do you not know that?

Dan Fates (57:05)

I thought. I thought her name was Gloria Jean. Apparently it's not.

Mike Catalana (57:10)

She didn't bother to ask.

Dan Fates (57:11)

I was so sure it was. It's Joan.

Jenna Cotrell (57:14)

That's Dan's problem.

Mike Catalana (57:15)

He's so Joan. That's fine.

Jenna Cotrell (57:18)

I kind of like Jean. I think Gene is cooler.

Dan Fates (57:21)

So, like, what we told my mom be like a big thing, like we're going to name her after.

Mike Catalana (57:24)

And then she was like, that wasn't her name.

Jenna Cotrell (57:28)

Probably like, okay.

Dan Fates (57:30)

My mom had the look of like, that's. That's a really cool thing.

Mike Catalana (57:33)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (57:34)

It's not her middle name. And I was like. And I. It was one of the things that you push back on. You're like, nana's name was Gloria Jean. She's like Gloria Joan, real quick before

Jenna Cotrell (57:45)

we wrap this up. My sister's name is Alyssa, and my dad is like Dan and very bad at spelling. My mom had just given birth to twins, and my dad was handling the birth certificate duties. My sister's name has an I in it instead of a Y. And my mom was like, you spelled her name wrong.

Dan Fates (58:05)

Yep.

Jenna Cotrell (58:06)

My dad was like, no, I did it on purpose. He didn't do it on purpose.

Mike Catalana (58:09)

Oh, my God.

Dan Fates (58:10)

Hey, Ben. You and me, man. I can't believe your mom allowed allowing him.

Jenna Cotrell (58:17)

She just gave birth to twins. She needed a minute.

Mike Catalana (58:19)

They couldn't. They can't.

Dan Fates (58:21)

You can hold the paperwork. Because I wasn't allowed to sign anything with my handwriting. Renee didn't let me.

Jenna Cotrell (58:25)

I don't. She has, like, very nice teacher handwriting, too.

Mike Catalana (58:28)

Yeah.

Dan Fates (58:29)

Renee's handwriting should be a font for sure.

Jenna Cotrell (58:31)

Honestly, it'd be like a great, like, wedding font. All right. We went way too, like, too long.

Dan Fates (58:38)

Told you this would be a juicy podcast.

Jenna Cotrell (58:40)

Yes, but not weird. It's not weird. Name your baby what you want to name your baby. Okay. Hey, Buffalo plus, send hey, buffalo/gmail.com. be sure to comment in your thoughts on names as well.

Mike Catalana (58:51)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (58:52)

Any of the things we talked about, whether what you heard from Joe Brady or Brandon Bean as we get closer to the NFL draft coming up later on this month.

Mike Catalana (59:00)

Yes, April.

Jenna Cotrell (59:02)

Because it's April. All right, that'll do it for us, for Dan and for Mike.

Mike Catalana (59:07)

By the way, did we do, like, comment subscribe in the beginning?

Jenna Cotrell (59:09)

Yes, we did.

Mike Catalana (59:09)

We did. Oh, yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (59:10)

I'm Jenna.

Mike Catalana (59:11)

Yeah.

Jenna Cotrell (59:12)

Please be sure to, like, comment subscribe and share. Thanks for joining us here in the Connors and Ferris podcast studio. We'll catch you next time here on the Buffalo plus podcast. Nailed it.

Dan Fates (59:25)

Buffalo plus.