You Ask, We Answer: Cook's contract, odd man out on the Bills & perception of Kincaid

Summary

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Episode Summary: "You Ask, We Answer: Cook's contract, odd man out on the Bills & perception of Kincaid"

Podcast: Buffalo Plus: A Buffalo Bills Podcast
Date: May 20, 2025
Hosts: Mike Catalana, Jenna Cottrell, Dan Fetes

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Overview

This episode of Buffalo Plus dives into fan mailbag questions on some of the hottest Buffalo Bills topics heading into the 2025 season. The panel—Mike, Jenna, and Dan—discuss the fate of the defensive line with key suspensions, the likelihood of AJ Epenesa staying or being traded, the outlook for Curtis Samuel and Joshua Palmer, James Cook’s contract status and value, and dissect how one play shaped public perception of Dalton Kincaid. The group uses their combined insider experience and perspective to address roster decisions, positional value, and Bills culture, bringing both humor and candor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defensive Line Depth & AJ Epenesa’s Role

• Fan Q/A: How do the Bills keep their D-line with two players suspended? Is AJ Epenesa the odd man out? Should they trade him?
  • Impact of Suspensions: With two new D-linemen suspended for the first six weeks, roster flexibility is challenged. Epenesa benefits at cutdowns because “strictly because of numbers,” he’ll get meaningful snaps early in the season (03:31).
  • Trade Value: The group doubts the Bills proactively shop Epenesa unless “Solomon [Javon Solomon] steps up...the new kid Jackson is gonna play” (04:27).
  • Trust Factor: Coaches lean on “the devil you know,” highlighting Epenesa’s reliability. “Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t.” – Mike (05:26)
  • After suspensions, a trade is possible if younger guys exceed expectations.

2. Curtis Samuel vs. Joshua Palmer: Who Steps Up?

• Fan Q/A: Will Curtis Samuel be more impactful, or will Joshua Palmer have more yards?
  • Dan is “doubling down on Curtis,” citing his late-season and playoff flashes (08:28).
  • Mike likes Palmer’s upside as a potential “difference maker” in an ‘X’ WR role, but notes Samuel’s “track record would tell you that it...it’s Samuel” (09:06, 09:57).
  • Jenna sees Palmer offering the higher yardage potential as a deep threat, but trusts the chemistry Samuel built with Allen late last year.
  • Room for Samuel may be limited by overlapping roles with Shakir and Kincaid.
  • Dan highlights Palmer's “100 targets...with the Chargers. He is a skill set they need and they want to see work” (11:13).

3. James Cook’s Contract & Future with the Bills

• Fan Q/A: Will Cook get a new deal before the season? Could his contract be a distraction?
  • Dan and Mike agree that Cook is unlikely to get a deal before the season, as the Bills seem set on their valuation of the RB position. “If it gets to that point, he’s gone at the end of the year.” – Dan (15:27)
  • “Wanting money isn’t a bad thing. That’s not the distraction.” – Mike (15:32)
  • The panel generally believes that Cook will play hard in his contract year but the Bills won’t deviate from their “number for the position” (17:20).
  • Cook is “making about $5 million this year” after his performance-based raise, but won’t see a RB1 payday from Buffalo.
  • Jenna argues Cook is “undeniably the best player” of the group recently let walk—more impactful than Edmunds, Poyer, or Singletary (21:07).
  • On the 2026 roster: All agree Cook won’t be on it—“I think he's going to play. I think he's going to be really good, and I think he's going to go somewhere else.” – Dan (24:22).

4. Dalton Kincaid’s Perception & the Power of One Play

• Fan Q/A: If Kincaid makes the catch vs. KC in the playoffs, how does perception change?
  • The group agrees: If Kincaid simply comes up with the clutch catch, it would “give him his signature moment,” changing fan/media tone—even “taking some of the stink off the season” – Mike (27:07).
  • “All those plays stick in our heads...that play would be immortalized.” – Dan (27:09)
  • However, Mike is clear that one play doesn’t erase “the whole body of work”; a game-changing catch hides some flaws but doesn't mask growth areas (26:16).
  • Panel debates the trustworthiness of Kincaid in clutch moments versus players like Khalil Shakir or Dawson Knox.

5. 2023 vs. 2024 (and Future) Bills: Who Wins?

• Fan Q/A: Hypothetical matchup—2023 Bills vs. 2024 Bills, who takes it?
  • Defense was better in 2023, but 2024 offense projected to be more cohesive under Joe Brady, and the team has shed distractions (33:43, 34:14).
  • Positive turnover margin in 2024 was critical.
  • Dan thinks the current roster is “a little better” than last year’s, mostly because of improved depth and off-season moves (36:31).
  • All agree replicating 2024’s offensive output is tough, but schedule is more favorable and less traveled.
  • “They maxed out their talent on offense” in 2024; can they do it again? (38:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On D-Line Trust

• “Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t.”
  — Mike Catalana (05:26)

On Cook’s Situation

• “If it gets to that point, he’s gone at the end of the year.”
  — Dan Fates (15:27)
• “Wanting money isn’t a bad thing. That’s not the distraction.”
  — Mike Catalana (15:32)
• “Undeniably the best player of those group...the most impactful guy.”
  — Jenna Cottrell (21:07)

On Kincaid’s Play-Off Perception

• “That play would be immortalized.”
  — Dan Fates (27:09)
• “It would have definitely changed the narrative. It would have taken some of the stink off of the season. But I don’t think it would have masked all of the development or lack thereof and progression that we were hoping to see.”
  — Mike Catalana (27:07)

On Bills’ Offensive Evolution

• “That was their superpower...not turning the football over, playing smart and still scoring points.”
  — Dan Fates (34:51)
• “They maxed out their talent on offense. They were not good enough on defense. They have addressed a lot of defense. Hopefully that comes up.”
  — Dan Fates (38:03)

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• 02:26 – D-line discussion, suspensions, Epenesa’s fit
• 07:56 – Curtis Samuel vs. Joshua Palmer question
• 14:01 – All about James Cook’s contract
• 25:38 – Kincaid's signature playoff catch hypothetical
• 33:23 – 2023 vs 2024 Bills team debate

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Episode Tone and Chemistry

The episode features the group’s trademark blend of deep football insight, directness, and playful banter—ranging from confident player evaluations to tangents about inside-out shirts, baptisms, and the quirks of NFL fandom. Their chemistry provides both clarity and entertainment, appealing to diehard Bills fans and those seeking candid, experienced sports debate.

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For More:

• Full episode available on YouTube and podcast platforms.
• Follow Buffalo Plus via their Link Tree for more extensive Bills coverage.

Transcript

[Dan Fates]

In the time it takes you to.

[Mike Catalana]

Actually board a flight from Group 8.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Now boarding Premier Altitude elite club members.

[Dan Fates]

You could have bought a Hyundai on Amazon. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Limited availability pickup through participating Hyundai dealer and select markets.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It was a really, really great year. Like you talked about, he was a weapon. But if he plays really well again this year, then the price is going to go up. You just think the Bills are completely.

[Dan Fates]

You're. You're right. But not for the Bills. It's not going to go up.

[Jenna Cottrell]

We'll start with this question from Robin.

[Mike Catalana]

So there's still a damn good defense.

[Dan Fates]

I have zero problem with them bringing this guy in.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Welcome Back to the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel. Presented by Connors and Ferris, Mike Catalana, Dan Fates. I am Jenna Cottrell. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe and share. And welcome to our latest episode of you ask, we answer, presented by stellar R Roofing, windows and siding. All right, we got a lot of great questions to get to today. Gonna talk a little bit.

[Mike Catalana]

Draft on Wednesday.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, travel. Travel draft on Wednesday.

[Mike Catalana]

I know some people thought. I think we talked about and got our days mixed up about when we were doing the travel draft. So people are showing up, think it's travel draft and pilates. That is Wednesday.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, yes, yes. So this is Mike.

[Mike Catalana]

Don't look too excited.

[Dan Fates]

I'm very excited about the travel draft.

[Mike Catalana]

Because you're the commissioner.

[Dan Fates]

Yes, I am. I get to host. I've never hosted anything like this before.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Wow. Heavy as the heavy.

[Dan Fates]

Actually, I always host the draft and we'll be ready for that. That'll be fun.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And Jenna has the first pick, as we mentioned before.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, we'll get into all that. But first, today we're doing you ask, we answer, presented by Stellar roofing, windows and siding. All right, so we're going to talk a little bit about the defense, the D line, specifically James Cook, Curtis Samuel, the Bills 2023 team. Bills 2024 team. We going to talk about it all. But first off, I wanted to start with kind of more the defensive side of the ball because last week we talked about the offense and I think these two questions kind of coincide with one. Another first one from Josh Martin, 1482. How do the Bills keep their all their D line knowing they have two guys suspended? Will AJ Be the odd man out? And going off of that trace talks, Buffalo asks, what's your opinion on trading AJ Epanessa before the season? So kind of Two questions in one. But what do you make of that D line with the two guys suspended? And where does AJ Epanessa fit into this mix?

[Dan Fates]

Well, I think it's fascinating with waiting for the two guys to come back after six weeks and. And I know a lot of people have looked at the positive of that. They're like, oh, great. It's like these guys are just showing up, but you have to have roster spots, you have to have people ready to play, and then you have to make major decisions. Two guys that you expect from signing them in off season are not only on the roster, they're on the active roster. So I do think that impacts it. And I look at a guy like AJ Potentially could be an odd man out. I don't think they sit there and go, well, hang on, we got too many guys. Let's trade AJ Epanessa. We're going to get all this from him. Dan. I look at it and say if it gets to that point, they might look to recoup something in a deal for a player like A.J. yeah, I think he's, again, he has been a good football player, but at this point, you're looking to bring in players or draft players over him. And I think it will be difficult for him to have a major role on this team if these players perform like the Bills hope they do.

[Mike Catalana]

I think this is weird to say, trying to compartmentalize it. I think AJ Benefits from the suspensions because I think there's no way they get to the question of is he the odd man out before the season? I don't see how you can move on from him knowing that you're going to go through training camp and that's going to be the tough scenario for McDermott and Babich is to balance getting those guys, Ogun Joby as well as Hoyt, caught up in the system and to get them up to speed and then also preparing for six weeks without them. So AJ Is going to get playing time those first six weeks strictly because of numbers. They have a lot of guys now. They know full well that they are going to be without two of them for a third of the season. So I think AJ Benefits from those guys being suspended because he's going to get time, seemingly. I mean, unless Jackson overtakes him and some of the other guys, like Javon.

[Dan Fates]

Solomon shows a lot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, right.

[Mike Catalana]

So.

[Dan Fates]

But that would be the thing that would allow them to make a move, you know, because cut downs are going to be tough or trades at the deadline to Jenna's Point in the question, it would have to be that. It would have to be like Solomon has stepped up. Right. The new kid Jackson is going to play.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Because you obviously you brought in somebody and you paid Greg Russo. So in terms of pass rushers.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I do think it does serve AJ well for the suspensions though, because you talk about Landon Jackson coming in. Obviously he's a rookie, he's got to learn the defense. Javon Solomon, what kind of jump can we expect from him as he has another year with the Bills? But I think for him, the Bills trust AJ and what they. I think they know what they are going to get out of him. Like, you know where the floor is. You also know where the ceiling is. And so for them, I could see a situation where after that suspension is done, do they try to trade him? But what would the trade market look for. Look like for a guy like that?

[Mike Catalana]

We always talk about trust a lot with Josh and who he throws the ball to and that quarterback, wide receiver dynamic. It's also big with defensive players and coaches. Like, they have to trust you. And sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. And so you kind of know the range that you're getting with A.J. epanessa. I'm not saying it is good, but you know what the range is?

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's not stellar.

[Mike Catalana]

It's. It's not stellar roofing, windows and siding, but it's the fact of, hey, I think he's going to benefit because they know to, to what level they can put him out there.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

So you're going to get the benefit unless these guys blow it away in training camp.

[Dan Fates]

And also six weeks into a season.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That has made me nervous the whole time. Open beverage.

[Mike Catalana]

So we've never spilled in here before.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Exactly.

[Mike Catalana]

Never.

[Dan Fates]

Six weeks into a season, there could be injuries. You don't know how it goes. It. It's just different to add players to the active roster at that point. So it, it's a, it's a plus.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Because you will have your lineup going and then you're going to say, oh, where are these? Where do these guys fit in? And. And putting them on the roster. So. And isn't it. The buy is seven week seven. Right. So it's six weeks. They can start practicing after four and then they'll get the. Another week and then they would be there. So everybody likes AJ he has been a good football player for them, but they have drafted over him now or signed multiple.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Multiple.

[Dan Fates]

So let's see how it plays Out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Bills, Braves, Phillies, PED suspensions.

[Dan Fates]

There we go. There we go. That's what's happened.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Pleasure doing business.

[Dan Fates]

Left handed reliever for the Phillies too. Yep. Hurts.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. All right.

[Dan Fates]

Weight loss, please.

[Jenna Cottrell]

All right, we're gonna go to the offense, but before we do, want to remind everyone you can find the Buffalo plus audio podcast available wherever you listen to your podcast again, it's named Buffalo Plus. Dave is listening. We know he's a huge fan of the audio podcast.

[Dan Fates]

Dave and I at the gym this morning did basically a short podcast in the locker room. I. I hope the other guys around enjoyed it because they heard it.

[Mike Catalana]

But he wanted the baptism on Sunday with. With Mike. With Father Mike Subscrib. He likes comments and subscribes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's awesome. All right, let's go to the offense. So Tim Isparo, 30, I guarantee you.

[Dan Fates]

You butchered that name.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Every name, Every name. As someone who frequently gets their names pronounced wrong, I'm like, I feel like I can justify it, but all right. He asks or they ask. I'm feeling optimistic Curtis Samuel's role will be more impactful next season. With that said, do you think he will have more receiving yards next year? Joshua Palmer or Curtis Samuel? Side note, I'll be curious where the Carolina game fits into your travel draft. Bill's mafia will be ready in Charlotte.

[Dan Fates]

Well, half of Buffalo's already moved to North Carolina.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It is wild how many people from western New York.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, listen, I, I'll start only because I was on team Curtis Samuel last year. That's true. He had been a successful player in the league. I will say I was encouraged at the end. And even in the playoffs. He made a big fourth down play in the Chiefs game. He looked a little different. If he was a young player, you'd be like, oh, it's just a flash. But he has played well in this league before.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

And it was wild. Like we, for a while we were like, nothing good happens when the ball goes to Curtis Samuel.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And then that started to change. And he does have a track record in this league. So does Josh Palmer. So we will see. I'm going to double down. I'm going to go Curtis.

[Mike Catalana]

It's funny because I think there's more upside to Josh Palmer's role.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

I think being a deep threat is something in a true X wide receiver that can be that guy. Be that, that be just more than a guy. Be a, be a difference maker. I think the Bill's position, the offense, like that's a hole that he can fill. But the track record would tell you that it. That it's Samuel. And I'm like you. Like a lot of times they try and go out there and say, like, hey, this guy's injuries and things like that. But he was on the injury report and we've talked about it a bunch. Like I said it like week eight. Like, I was like, we're gonna hear at the end of the season how. How banged up he really was. So Eileen, with you. But if Palmer does succeed in this role, I think there are big numbers for him to have and be an asset and a weapon for Josh Allen.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I. I agree. I see both sides and I know, wow. Me thinking something is hot take. But what I'm saying is Curtis Samuel also has you talked about trust earlier and how important that trust is. I think in the beginning, Josh Allen and Curtis Samuel, they had to figure it out. Like it was not an automatic fluid type of situation. But. But over time and with Curtis Samuel getting into the lineup getting healthier, we saw how dynamic he can be and some of the plays that he can make. So for me, I think that you have that familiarity and that continuity with Curtis Samuel, but with what you're saying, that outside threat, that deep threat that Josh Palmer can bring, you would hope that that means more yards and the yards that come along with that as well.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. There's more upside with Palmer in the offense because there are a lot of guys that are also doing what Samuel does. Like, Shakir is going to take away from Samuel's success. Kincaid hopefully will take like, in theory, over the middle of the field in that line of scrimmage. So there's a bunch of guys that Samuel will be fighting for to get the playing time healthy or not. It's Palmer's role, I think, that has the higher upside.

[Dan Fates]

And Palmer hasn't played in this offense. And that's a positive. I think for a lot of you, it's a positive.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Because you don't have any of the negatives with him.

[Mike Catalana]

Hope you have hope.

[Dan Fates]

Hope you do. And the guy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Hope is not always negative.

[Dan Fates]

No. And so a lot of times it's like, hey, Palmer has done this. He had a hundred targets a couple years ago with the Chargers. He is. He has a skill set that they need and they want to see work. And I think sometimes when you haven't seen any of the bad stuff.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

You haven't seen those games where he's invisible or. I just said. If you just said to me before the year, Curtis Samuel is going to be. Do nothing for most of the year. He's got. That would. That would have stunned me because that's not the way his career had played out. But then it did play out that way last year, and it was what, the toe, too, was a thing. Right.

[Mike Catalana]

It was toe in this at training camp. Then it was ankle and shoulder and, like, back throughout the year, he'd pop up, like, occasionally randomly, like, he wouldn't play in a game, and then he would pop up on the injury report after not being on it.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Thank goodness he had the end of the season that he did, or I would be like, I don't know, man. That's a big signing. Yeah. Threw a lot of money at him. And you're like, what the heck? But then with the end of the year and some of the plays he made, some of those big catches, I think of that in that Chiefs game. What was that? The third down.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, fourth down.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Fourth down.

[Dan Fates]

Fourth down.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, you're right. It's fourth down.

[Dan Fates]

I think I mentioned that a little while ago.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, did you?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. Another time.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You were just like, I'm having quite a day block out. I have my shirt on inside out. I got here late.

[Mike Catalana]

There's the open.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Don't be like, she's high. I'm not high.

[Dan Fates]

Well, shirt on inside out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Zach was like, I had. This is so embarrassing. I slept with my shirt. Like, the shirt I slept in was also inside out. But I was like, oh, it's this. This shirt you sleep in. It doesn't matter. And then I also put the shirt on inside out. So really a great. We had a long weekend. We had a wedding, a baptism, and a baby shower.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's a lot.

[Mike Catalana]

Just powered through it.

[Dan Fates]

Maybe she is high.

[Mike Catalana]

She didn't drop Taylor, so that was successful. She pulled it together for Sunday.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, I went to the vet for the dip in the water.

[Mike Catalana]

You did go to my brother.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Brother held the baby.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

We went with the steady veteran hands.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. We had.

[Dan Fates]

We don't go to the godmother.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I did all the pictures, though.

[Dan Fates]

Congratulations.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes. Yeah. No, it was fun day. Okay. All right, let's get into another question. These are two questions. Kind of the same coin like we talked about. This is From Eva Violet C6I. Does Cook get a new deal before the season starts? And then William 1093s. Will James Cook be a distraction this upcoming season, threatening to hold out? He had great numbers due to our offensive line. Any RB would have had great numbers. He is not worth 15 million a year. So that's Williams opinion. But Eva asking, does Cook get a new deal before this season?

[Dan Fates]

Listen, I just want to begin by saying we love Jimbo.

[Mike Catalana]

We love James. We love James.

[Jenna Cottrell]

We love James.

[Dan Fates]

We love him. New deal. I think the deal that if you.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Don'T get that reference.

[Dan Fates]

Yes. Brandon Bean likes to say we love.

[Jenna Cottrell]

We love Jimbo.

[Dan Fates]

And some people because he said James.

[Mike Catalana]

No.

[Dan Fates]

Or Josh did. Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

He called him James instead of Jim.

[Dan Fates]

And people are like, oh, you guys.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Did that in unison.

[Dan Fates]

We had that. Yes. Not too long ago.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The video in Orchard Park. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

So the only thing about it is I don't know if James Cook. And I'll say this, he has the right to bet on himself. I don't know if he wants to settle. I think he might believe he is worth a higher number than the Bills are going to pay and he'll want to play it out. Now that goes to the other. Will he be a distraction? I think he's got to play. I think he wants to show the league who he is. And I think there will be a point where the team and he say, we're not talking. This is what it's going to be. Is that. Does that hurt? It can be a problem. I don't think he's that type of guy. I think he's going to say, I want to do what's best for my teammates. And selfishly, I want to put up numbers to show the whole league. I would put it to you this way. If it gets to that point, he's gone at the end of the year.

[Mike Catalana]

I agree.

[Dan Fates]

It won't be play it out and then the Bills decide something else.

[Mike Catalana]

It's tricky in the sense of understanding betting on yourself. And I think, especially in locker rooms, players understand that wanting money isn't a bad thing. That's not the distraction. I don't think the contracts the distraction. I think it'll be up to. To Cook whether or not how far he wants to take it. Like to your point, we view it as holding out would be a negative for the contract negotiations and moving forward. Like he can't sit out a year and then hit free agency and say, Well, I want $15 million. Like that's not going to go well for your for free agency. So that would be a bad hand, I think, to play. I think he understands, like the success that he's had. I disagree a little bit with like anybody would have those numbers.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, I agree. I'm with you.

[Mike Catalana]

He was a weapon and we've talked about that extensively. Like he was a game breaker at times. They weren't just three yard touchdown runs. Like he had 20, 30, 40 yard runs behind a very good offensive line. Sure. But he, his play himself and the.

[Dan Fates]

Play in the Chiefs game. He's the only guy.

[Mike Catalana]

Unbelievable.

[Dan Fates]

Outside of Josh Allen, he's the only guy on that roster. I think that's making that play.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

As talented as other guys are. That play. And that was not a long play. It was a very short but in very important fourth down play. Now he's got all those things. But Jenna, the idea is if you're him, you have to say to yourself, I'm worth this. I don't think the Bill's thoughts on the money are going to change dramatically before the season. They have a number that they probably feel works for them.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Do you think 12?

[Dan Fates]

I don't even, I don't know. I don't know. I shouldn't say. I think I know the number.

[Mike Catalana]

But like it's so tough to think about. It's not just what you think about the player. I think you have to, it's what you value. The position.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Yes, absolutely.

[Mike Catalana]

And that's where it's like resigning Ty Johnson and the, the role that he has. And if they don't view James as a three down back by making that move to bring tie back, like you're saying, like he's gonna be our third down guy. Like, I don't see that being a fundamental change in their philosophy, in their scheme on the offense.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I, I am curious because Sean McDermott has talked about how competitive that running back room is. Obviously James Cook got a ton of carries, but also goal line carries. It felt like they went to Ray Davis a lot. Do you expect to see like, maybe things crop up if James Cook doesn't feel like he's getting the ball enough or do you think that that could lead to the possibility of there being some friction? Because we've talked about Ty Johnson being their third down back and James Cook maybe saying, hey, I, I want the ball more.

[Mike Catalana]

I think they all want the ball more. And when it comes to like that and like to the question of like a distraction, like winning cures a lot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree. But when you are, you're in a different situation in a contract year though, you want to win, but selfishly you want the numbers too.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And he, he should feel that way.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And I think all things being equal, he'd want to stay in Buffalo. It's a good situation for him. But they aren't giving him the opportunity. They don't look at him as all those snaps the three down back. I would think James Cook probably feels like he can be that guy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I. That's what. That's literally the heart of what I'm asking.

[Dan Fates]

Right. And so. Well, actually, no, I, I'm wondering if that's why I think if it doesn't get settled early where it's like and he comes down a little, the Bills give him a little more here, add some incentives and then he signs. I think James Cook and he rightfully is. He's a confident player who believes he can be one of those guys. It just plays out.

[Mike Catalana]

Listen.

[Dan Fates]

And that might be the case and.

[Mike Catalana]

It'S played out with guys like Jermaine Edmonds and Gabe Davis. Those are the two that come and honestly a little bit to Jordan Poyer too.

[Dan Fates]

Kevin Singletary too. Right. They played out the rest of his deal.

[Mike Catalana]

Right. So do I think a new deal gets done? Eileen? No. I think Bean has kind of put his flag in the ground of. We tried. We're not on the same page. We love Jim. We love Jimbo Jimbo. But we're gonna play it out. If, if there's a fundamental change at some point, maybe that's a discussion. But I don't think they made a lot of talks and times of hey, we're working on getting extensions done and that extension didn't get done. And I think you then have to shift your mindset. I'm not saying it's on the last burner.

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[Dan Fates]

Thanks.

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[Jenna Cottrell]

Thing.

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[Mike Catalana]

But it's on a back burner of hey, we got to do this. We gotta get the team ready. These are the guys we have and we need to move forward and kind of. That seems like whenever the contract situation does get done, if it does get done, that seems like a future beam problem. And your focus now is on the season. Like they had months to figure this out. They haven't figured it out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I, I just, I. Hearing all those names that you said before, like James Cook though is arguably not Even arguably he's undeniably the best player of those group. That group. He has been the most impactful guy. I mean Tremaine Edmonds, he had a.

[Mike Catalana]

Really good year last year.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You're. I'm not denying it was a. It was a really, really great year. Like you talked about he was a weapon. But if he plays really well again this year then the price is going to go up. You just think the Bills are completely.

[Dan Fates]

You're. You're right. But not for the Bills. It's not going to go up.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

Because I think Dan's point it's this is what they want to pay the position and the other thing is they will feel like they can find it maybe not to this level of talent and they want it to work and they probably ideally for the Bills they want him to come back. Now he does get a raise this year on the enhanced performance clause that it is. It's not guaranteed money. It's a weird thing the way they do it but it's an automatic. You know all of those guys got that. So he's making about 5 million this year. Yeah, it's 5 million bucks.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It's so true. It depends on the Bill's philosophy and I could agree with you guys of them being like look we just don't value the position and to pay it pay for a premium guy. But I would push back a little bit and just say like it's hard because it's been one season but you just saw the development and where he took his game that it would be really nice for Josh Allen to have another dynamic lethal guy. That can also be your change up. If the passing game is not running the way it should.

[Mike Catalana]

I guess just look at it because he commented too about Derrick Henry. I look at the Ravens, I look at what the Eagles like. Their value on the running back position seems to be higher than the Bills.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree with that.

[Dan Fates]

Those guys were 2000 yard guys or.

[Mike Catalana]

Cook close to it. Cook needed it in week 18 to.

[Dan Fates]

Get to a thousand.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

Very good player. 40 some odd percent of the snaps.

[Mike Catalana]

Yep.

[Dan Fates]

To the point where it may be with the Dallas Cowboys next year and they pay him like an every down back that they decide to do it. Good for him. If that's how it works out we say all this, I guess it could happen. I don't see anything happening in before season and I the mandatory camp's going to come up. I'm going to bet he doesn't come. If I was saying this, it's in June you make your point, you get fined for it. I think the team can rescind the fine. This is what happens. I think it would get everybody's attention.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

And we will cover it. That's the way the league works. It doesn't really impact the team on the field, but it might make the Bills look at things a little differently.

[Mike Catalana]

That'll be the first question to Sean McDermott. Is everybody here? Yes, everybody is here except for. For James.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Have you spoken to James? No, no, that's just. And that's.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, that's a speculation. All right. The 20, 26 Buffalo Bills roster, do you have James Cook on it?

[Mike Catalana]

No, no.

[Dan Fates]

And I think this is. I think he's going to play. I think he's going to play. I think he's going to be really good, and I think he's going to go somewhere else.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And there may be another team that values him at $15 million.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I will say I agree with you guys, but I just. And I get it. The Ravens, you know, they like the, The Eagles. They rely on Saquon, Derrick Henry and 2000 yard rushers. I just don't want the Bills to handcap handicap like and have Josh Allen.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, I. I'm with you.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I know. I agree. But I think you're right. I agree that I don't expect him to be on the roster next season.

[Mike Catalana]

On the plus side, we only have about two more months to talk about this.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, I know. Right. All right. Well, let's talk about the other question.

[Dan Fates]

Well, the other. The other quick thing on that would be if he plays this year, you have him and his backups and all that for this year. They didn't really make plans to not have James Cook. Right. It's not like they drafted somebody or brought another player in. Could they do something if they needed to? Sure. Right. You could try to make a deal with somebody, bring a player in next year. They would go into it, eyes wide open. He's not there. We're moving on, so we'll see how it plays out.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. But I. I also say I don't expect a deal before the season starts.

[Dan Fates]

Right.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That feels very far away. Trace talks Buffalo. Another question. Obviously, Kincaid's year two was underwhelming. How much less pressure from fans and writers would be on him if he makes that catch at the end of the Chiefs playoff game? Crazy how one play could change a perception, in my opinion. It's a really interesting question.

[Mike Catalana]

Good question.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think it also depends on what happens after that play.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, they Win the game. I already looked it up.

[Mike Catalana]

That's because it is like this league is so much of making those plays in that moment.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

And you can justify.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You say sports.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. And you could justify. You could talk yourself into a whole bunch of numbers and analytics and all these things and say, well, you know, he made the play when it mattered most. I think I'd still be saying the same tune because I'd still look at the whole body of work and the whole body of two years and like we talked about in the last one, like, what is the game that he took over? That catch would have been a game changer, but it wouldn't have been the game that he has taken over. That's the big thing that I'm waiting for this year, is for the game that Kincaid. And you sit there and say, there's the mismatch. There's the game that they couldn't cover Kincaid. So it would have definitely changed the narrative. It would have taken some of the stink off of the season. But I don't think it would have masked all of the development or lack thereof and progression that we were hoping to see.

[Jenna Cottrell]

It would have given him his signature moment.

[Dan Fates]

So we just talked about Curtis Samuel on the fourth down play, James Cook on the one yard run. All those plays stick in our heads. Right. Every Buffalo Bills fan of a certain age, all they remember from Carlton Bailey was the play he made against Denver to get that team to the Super Bowl. He was a pretty good player, but he's a legendary player for getting him to a Super bowl with an interception and a touchdown. Maybe it's not that. I think if they make that play, Josh somehow threw it up there. It was catchable. It was not easy, but it was.

[Mike Catalana]

Definitely somehow threw it up there. That was the best play of Josh Allen's career. It's up there.

[Dan Fates]

Well, to him to get it to that spot. Look, I think it should, I would say should have been caught to Mike's point. Not a drop, but it should have been caught.

[Mike Catalana]

It's as close to a drop as you can have.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, drop is a drop. I mean, he's diving forward. He jumped back.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes, in theory. Like Mike, to your point where you said, like they win that game, that catches is a statue. That play would be immortalized.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I don't know about statue. That statue. If it wins the game, it's the statue. If they go and they win, they go to the super bowl, they win that.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I, I just. It would definitely change, you would say, if he made that Catch. You would say, hey, man, battled a, a ton of injuries last season. He didn't, he didn't have the stats that you would want. But when Josh needed him, he rose to the challenge. And you would like to think that going into year three, he can build off of that momentum.

[Mike Catalana]

And it's funny that I don't know who. Carlton Bailey.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Okay. I don't know who that guy is. But you talk about the moments as. The question is, is like, I think Stefan Diggs did so many incredible things and it's the drop.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Against the Chiefs that is maybe the thorn in the resume for what that is. That's the lasting memory of that. So it's a damn good question as to what the perception would be like, because in those biggest moments, the best players step up in those big moments.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And it's, they had a lot of reasons to lose that game, chances to win the game. But when you talk about that, we just talked about who comes through 17 does so much for this team. Who comes through in the moments for him. That would have been a big one. That would have been huge. And I do believe it would have greatly altered the perception. Well, and I also believe they would have gone down and won the game. I think they would have. But it didn't happen that really. Because sometimes even a really good play gets lost because you lose the game.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes.

[Dan Fates]

But that one would have been something.

[Jenna Cottrell]

If you were to ask me before that throw that you said, Josh is going to throw the ball here to Dalton Kincade the season on the line. What would be your confidence level in Dalton Kincade? I think I would say 20%. Wow. That's.

[Dan Fates]

I see, I don't see him as like dropping a pass. That's not what.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I just don't see him as clutch.

[Dan Fates]

I know I've been reading that all of Josh's passes to him were shitty. Is that right? Is that, is that the official stat? Josh was mvp.

[Mike Catalana]

Except Kincaid.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, I, I, I. Now I'm gonna wait for everybody to give me all the numbers and they're gonna tell me this. It's like that pass would have not been considered. That would not have been considered a high probability catch.

[Mike Catalana]

Correct.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's. I think 20 is.

[Dan Fates]

No, by the stats. The stats would have said.

[Mike Catalana]

I mean, I just, I think about that play.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What percentage would you put on him?

[Mike Catalana]

What is it like a standard drop back. They throw him the ball.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I imagine that catch. Oh, that, that catch.

[Mike Catalana]

That catch. Yeah. I mean, that's a difficult catch.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes. I'm Asking what is the percentage you would expect him to make that play?

[Dan Fates]

Well, since we actually saw it, I would say zero. Because he didn't catch it.

[Mike Catalana]

It's a. It's a 50. 50 ball.

[Dan Fates]

It is.

[Mike Catalana]

I. I think guys are.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I'm at. Okay, never mind.

[Mike Catalana]

So 50. 50%.

[Dan Fates]

50%.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay. But it's Dalton Kincaid that's supposed to make. I would have it be higher if it was Khalil shakir. I would say 60. 40.

[Mike Catalana]

Yes. I'd say 70. 30. I almost did 70.

[Dan Fates]

47,129.

[Mike Catalana]

I just. That play.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That play. And it's Dalton Kincaid having to make that catch. I know it was zero percent.

[Mike Catalana]

He didn't make it.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But what would be your confidence? So annoying.

[Dan Fates]

Put your shirt on the right way.

[Jenna Cottrell]

In the comments, if you understand the question prompt, let me know.

[Dan Fates]

I don't think they do.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Let me know.

[Mike Catalana]

So, lowest ceiling.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Can you give me an answer for the love of.

[Mike Catalana]

I just.

[Dan Fates]

I think in terms of you're saying this, who do you trust the most to make that catch?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I'm asking you. If you saw that play and someone said, hey, it's going to be Dalton Kincaid that has to catch that ball, what would be your confidence level of him?

[Dan Fates]

I would have had it about 50%.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Wow. Okay.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. I mean, he. He's not. He didn't drop a lot of passes during the year, but that. He wasn't asked to make those kind of play. Actually, I might have more faith in Dawson.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I would have way more. I would have.

[Dan Fates]

Dawson comes up with some plays.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I agree.

[Mike Catalana]

I just think about that place. One of the best top five plays that Josh Allen's ever made in his career.

[Jenna Cottrell]

But it gets forgotten because the result, I mean, it was a. It was an incredible. The fact that he could even get.

[Mike Catalana]

Off the throw was insane.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Insane. Okay. All right, last question. All right. Killjoy's 19 crazy. Been watching you guys since you were under 10k subs and you guys are so close to 40k. First of all, thank you. Also. Subscribe. Okay, Congrats, team. Who wins a hypothetical game, the 2023 Bills versus the 2024 Bills. And why is Dan right. We don't have to actually address the last part of Love that. So the 2023 bills versus the 2024.

[Mike Catalana]

So that's digs.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That's okay. So that's the. Ken Dorsey gets fired. Joe Brady steps in. They go away from Diggs.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The Bills go on that tear that runs. They win in Miami to clinch the playoffs.

[Mike Catalana]

These all blend Together. Yeah. I'm trying to feel like so long.

[Dan Fates]

I would say the defense was better in 23.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I would agree. You had all you had. Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

I like the year of Joe Brady running the offense. It got better. As we remember. They took over that team, did go on a nice run, and they were tough because they were six and six after that Eagles loss. And the whole thing happened with Von and the whole thing happened with McDermott. And they went and they won and they won out to get to that game. They both lost heartbreakers to the Chiefs. That was a banged up defense in that playoff game. I do like Brady for the full.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Year R. That's the difference. So for me, I do think the defense better 2023, but for me, 2024, you have Joe Brady. You don't have Stefan Diggs. And I kind of mean that. The distraction that kind of came along with everything. And you also had James Cook kind of evolve into the player that we saw him be last season.

[Dan Fates]

And the 23 team. And people keep talking about. When we talked about the numbers for the offense, that team put up a lot more passing yards, more touchdowns in the air, but Josh didn't turn it over. They didn't turn it over 20 or did turn it over 24. They did not.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, that was.

[Dan Fates]

That was what that was. Their superpower there as a group was not turning the football over, playing smart and still scoring points. So.

[Mike Catalana]

And I think it gets lost, too. Like, obviously, you think about how well the offense did at not turning the ball over last year. The defense forced a ton of turnovers.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I felt like every time, like they needed something.

[Dan Fates]

Well, look at the Baltimore game. The. The play by Bernard. Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. I think I would take last year's team and. And to me, it's the tiebreaker of. Of Joe Brady.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

Because that Ken Dorsey offense was so, so bad.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. Remember Josh Low positive.

[Dan Fates]

Can you imagine?

[Jenna Cottrell]

Remember how disheveled he seemed?

[Dan Fates]

Can you imagine not being able. I don't mean that everybody's going to be great, but to have Josh not look like Josh takes a lot.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Y. Yeah. I remember wanting to ask Dan. I'm like, is Josh okay?

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Because he just seems so different.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Whereas now, obviously, I don't ever want.

[Dan Fates]

To hear that low positive again. Yeah, that. That wasn't great.

[Mike Catalana]

No.

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, it was not. So. Yeah, we're gonna go. All of us. 2024 bills.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

2024 bills versus 2025 bills. That's mine.

[Dan Fates]

You got.

[Jenna Cottrell]

You're looking sent in by Jenna.

[Dan Fates]

So now you're saying.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

What we've seen. No, what we've seen and just without seeing us.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Well, actually, the 2025 Bills haven't played yet.

[Dan Fates]

No, but I'm. I'm saying this. This is projections on. We just talked about projections on these players. I do like the overall roster more now than I did going into last year.

[Mike Catalana]

What do you mean you like it at this time last year you were.

[Dan Fates]

Yes. They had made all those changes on defense and the. They needed superstar Josh to make it work, especially with the issues the defense had last year. I just said that team was better than 23, at least for what I'm looking at. And I'm not overstating what all these other guys will mean. I just like what they have done in the off season enough to say I think it's a little better of a roster, but can they repeat some of the things they did in 24?

[Jenna Cottrell]

So, just to clarify, you are taking the product that was on the field in 2024 and comparing it to the projection of what you'll see on the field in 2025.

[Dan Fates]

I have the hope that 25 can be better, but I'm concerned about just making chicken salad. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because there were times last year. Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

For chicken salad.

[Dan Fates]

And he made it work. He made it work.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Hopefully. You know, I mean, that was the thing.

[Mike Catalana]

And I'm hoping, like, it would be. People would call us Buffalo minus if we were sitting there saying that this last year was going to be better than the future when we're moving forward.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

But it's. I think it is tough to replicate a lot of the things that they did.

[Dan Fates]

They maxed out their talent on offense.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

They were not good enough on defense. They have addressed a lot of defense. Hopefully that comes up. I think it's difficult to max out that talent. No matter how good Josh is, it's difficult to do that again. And maybe, you know, Samuel, we talk about these guys, maybe they step up, Kincaid steps up. All those guys being a little bit better. I'm encouraged by some of it, but, man, it's tough to play that way year in and year out. They also have an easier schedule. This.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. That's why I expect the results to be better this season.

[Mike Catalana]

Real quick, one last thing before we wrap up like this. Thought that this is an easy schedule.

[Dan Fates]

Easier.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I think the way it breaks down, you're gonna have tough games, but they're.

[Mike Catalana]

Pretty spaced out and they're tough games. But home games don't automatically Mean wins. Like. Like, they're. Their home schedule's a gauntlet.

[Dan Fates]

It is.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah. But I think, again, it's, like, pretty evenly spaced where you're, like, you have the Ravens. The Eagles are later on in the year. Like, there's some breaks that make it nice as opposed to, like, Ravens, Eagle, like, you know.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah. I think it's a tough home schedule.

[Dan Fates]

I think it is.

[Mike Catalana]

And I think just because it's home doesn't mean. Obviously, it makes it easier. I don't think it makes it an easy schedule.

[Dan Fates]

They had to travel to Detroit. They had to travel to the Rams. They had to travel to Seattle last year. Like, those were their travel games.

[Mike Catalana]

Their road schedule, I think, is. Is a breeze.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah. And that helps a lot. And they're obviously. They're always really good at home, so.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah, they are. Very. Was it Defend every blade of grass? Yeah, I always am, like. But there's not grass.

[Dan Fates]

That's right.

[Mike Catalana]

Jenna would know all about grass, by the way. Speaking of all about grass.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, that's. That's a perfect way. By the way, I was at West Virginia this weekend for graduation and up on the scoreboard, because it was at the. In the arena for basketball, and it says, let's go, trademark tm.

[Jenna Cottrell]

They.

[Dan Fates]

Let's go.

[Mike Catalana]

I was laughing.

[Dan Fates]

I mean, come on.

[Mike Catalana]

Come on.

[Dan Fates]

Trademark. I mean, Mike, let's go,™ I would really.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That would be Tom Brady.

[Dan Fates]

I would assume it's somebody, like, 100 years ago.

[Mike Catalana]

I thought it was so funny at the NFL draft when. Who was the receiver that the packers drafted this year? Yeah, the guy from Texas. Right?

[Dan Fates]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Cottrell]

I gotta look it up. My name is already all the.

[Mike Catalana]

Anyway, he gets. They draft the first round wide receiver. The whole crowd is chanting, go, Pack, go Right. Go back out to Golden.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Mike Catalana]

Thank you. He gets on the mic and goes, give me a Green Bay on three. It was amazing. The fact that, like, that's their thing. It's go, pet, go. And he gets up there and he's like, green Bay on three. One, two, three. It's like, bro, they were setting it up for you.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah.

[Mike Catalana]

He couldn't say, let's go, because that was tm.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yeah.

[Dan Fates]

Really. West Virginia, let's go. Seriously. I don't know. It said it, but it's right up on the screen.

[Jenna Cottrell]

That does not. I'm gonna look that up.

[Dan Fates]

There's no way they have that trademark.

[Mike Catalana]

This is where we need our producer to.

[Dan Fates]

They say a lot of stuff down there. Morgantown.

[Mike Catalana]

Are they. Are they in the range of boiled Peanuts.

[Jenna Cottrell]

What does that mean?

[Dan Fates]

I didn't see that on any of the menus. That's. That's.

[Mike Catalana]

That's a Southern thing.

[Dan Fates]

Yeah, it was boiled shrimp, balls, crab. It's not really south, let me tell you.

[Mike Catalana]

It's just woods.

[Dan Fates]

West Virginia University is a very short drive from the Pennsylvania line and only an hour from Pittsburgh.

[Mike Catalana]

Yeah, I think it's very.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Looks like it's Mattel.

[Mike Catalana]

I think we may have just put West Virginia.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Oh, it's. Let's go. West Virginia is TM West Virginia.

[Mike Catalana]

Shocking, really. Nobody else.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Trademarked. Let's go, Mountaineers.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, they're crazy.

[Jenna Cottrell]

The flying VW or wv? Sorry.

[Mike Catalana]

Vw. Let's wrap this up.

[Dan Fates]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay, let's go.

[Mike Catalana]

Put your shirt on.

[Dan Fates]

Yes.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Okay. It's. Shut up. All right, Take the three shot. I don't want to see myself. All right. Please be sure to, like, comment, subscribe, and share. Thank you again for sending in your questions.

[Dan Fates]

Do you think these people from Stellar Roofing really rise what they're getting with this?

[Jenna Cottrell]

No, I.

[Dan Fates]

They do. They're. They're good spots.

[Jenna Cottrell]

Yes, they are very happy. Thank you to Stellar Roofing, Windows and siding for our you ask, we answer segment. Thank you so much for joining us. For Mike Catalana and Dan Fates, I am Jenn Patrol. We will see you next time on the Buffalo Plus YouTube channel. We'll start with this question from Robin.

[Mike Catalana]

So there's still a damn good defense.

[Dan Fates]

I have zero problem with them bringing this guy in.