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Build with Leila Hormozi
Answering Uncomfortable Questions about Money and Relationships | Spotify Video Exclusive
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Talking about money can destroy a relationship. Questions like, should you get a prenup? I run a large business with my husband, and over the years we have dealt with many of these. I had to spend like 10 grand on the Airbnb. It's actually 6,000. And then there was food and gas. I ate Subway every day. I paid for my own food. I know you do. So today I'm going to answer some of these questions so that you and your partner can have a rock solid relationship. And I'll be answering them for whether you're just dating, just moved in, or just got married. First, we're going to start with the dating category. Should finances be a factor in early dating? I'll be honest. I have girls that come to me and they're like, I can't believe that he wanted to have me pay for something. And I'm like, well, there's nothing wrong if a guy wants you to pay for something. What's the wrong part is that you guys don't talk about it. So I actually think that normalizing conversation around finances is what makes a relationship strong. If you look at like top reasons people get divorced, money and finance is one of the top ones. And I think it's a lot of the times because people don't start off by talking about money. One of the best things I've ever done is talk about that stuff from the get go. Well, how do I bring that up? The reality is that the first time that you talk about something that you've never talked about, it's going to feel uncomfortable. But you can normalize it by bringing it up more frequently. Don't expect the other person to bring it up first. If it's on your mind, just bring it up. You do that by just simply stating the facts. Here's what I expect or would like from a financial standpoint in a partnership and just lay it out on the table. Avoiding it just makes it harder later on and it's going to just cause more problems than it hides. All right, let's see the next question. Who should pay for the first date? When I was dating, I always offered to pay for half of the dates, and I've posted that before and people really got upset about it. I love the gesture of the guy paying for the first date. There's an element of this social norm. Most women are conditioned, like, enjoy. And myself included. Like, if a guy didn't offer to pay for the first date, then I would feel a little bit like, oh, okay, so he wants me to pay for the first date. That's interesting. Every first date that I went on, I offered to pay 50%. I just felt weird being like, I don't even know if we're going to work out, but like, hey, pay for all my. It makes sense to me that when you're trying to figure out if something's going to work, you trade off who's paying. Is there an element of romance when it comes to money? Maybe for some people, I mean, maybe like piles of dollar bills, you know, gets you going. I had a man and he was really successful. He had a business that's doing like 100 million. And he was like, how do I date women without my money influencing the relationship? And I said, dude, that's never going to happen. Because she equates that money to security. For women, what's attractive is the security that money brings. Should occupations be listed on dating app profiles? For me, it just sets the tone of a relationship, which is like, I've always want to be upfront honest about everything. If you're already trying to use tactics to avoid telling the truth from the start of posting it in your profile, that's a red flag to me about the person doing it. Putting everything out there from the get go. Being as honest as possible, even in a world where other people are not, is the best way you can go about it. How do you feel if someone were to hide information about what they did or how much they made early on dating? I think it's gross to hide how much money you make. I know plenty of men who have done this. I've also seen it not work out for them. If we really dig into this question, like, what are people avoiding? People are avoiding getting hurt. The reality is that if you want to have a relationship, then you're going to have to expose yourself to all the bad to get all the good. Dating puts you in a very vulnerable position. You know, whether you're a woman or a man, we just have to accept when you're going through a season where you are dating people that there are going to be times that suck. But that's okay. That's part of it. If you want to have the good, you've got to also be willing to experience the bad. So now we're done with the dating section and we will move on to the commitment section. When. At the stage when you, when you're moving in together. What is the best way to deal with finances? My first few relationships, I didn't know any better. It's not like I like immediately talked about money. And so it did kind of like backlog until it got to the point where, like, okay, well, who's paying for what are we splitting rent? Like, who's buying furniture, who's buying groceries? Discussing finances with your partner when you've avoided it up until the point where you can't anymore is very uncomfortable. The biggest piece of advice, I would say, is set the expectations up front ahead of time. Also put them in writing. The healthiest relationships I've seen people have these discussions, and then they write down what their agreements to each other are. You bring up the conversation and say, I would like to talk about what we are each financially responsible for when it comes to our home. So it's like, okay, great, I want to talk about what are shared expenses, what are individual expenses? So that then we have a list and we know, cool, okay, here's the things that we share, meaning either we're going to split 50, 50, or we're going to alternate who pays for these things. And then here's the things we take care of individually, and we'll just pay for those out of our own bank account. The best way to start this off is to express what you think makes sense and then ask the person, does this align with your expectations or do you feel differently? Do you have a different opinion about this? I think a lot of the times the reason that these conversations get really uncomfortable is that somebody comes into it emotionally charged. They avoid this conversation until something happens, and then they realize they have to have the conversation, but then they expedite the conversation, and they have it in a state of anger or in a state of frustration. And so then when they go into the conversation, it doesn't feel good because the tone is off. And so I think this is a great test before you move in with somebody. See, can I even have an adult conversation about finances with them? Or do I need to, like, take a Xanax or drink a bottle of tequila before I do it? The mature thing to do is to bring up the conversation proactively. Always plan for these things ahead of time. When you're not in an emotional state, it's great to bring up, like, hey, if we ever moved in together, how do you see us splitting the finances? When is a good time to combine finances? When Alex and I went through the time where his business partner went and they drained the bank account that we were putting all of, like, the money I was making, the money he was making, the money we're making together, I had money saved in my account, and I Was like, I'll pay for, like, rent and food for the time being. I never was tipped for debt, and neither is Alex. Like, we're just not that way. It makes me happy if Alex ever wants to buy something from himself. And I think it makes Alex happy to buy things for me. My take is probably a little bit more logical. For us, it made a lot of sense to just combine finances. You know, neither of us had a ton of assets going into it. You know, we made most everything together. It would be weird if two people who own 50, 50 of their business didn't combine finances. In a lot of instances, when you're working with somebody and you're making money together, I think that it makes it easier. Easier if you do combine finances. Another instance is that a lot of people are not financially equal. You have to be happy about them spending your money. And if you're not happy about your partner spending your money, then I don't know why you would combine finances. And so I think you've really got to think through it of, like, does it make my life and my relationship better or worse to combine finances? And if you are more financially independent than the other person, do I feel happy with them spending my money? Do you believe in financial incompatibility? In many past relationships, I loved somebody, but when I realized that we were not compatible, meaning I had very strong preferences this direction, and they had very strong preferences in this direction, I just ended it on a friendly note. We should both be able to live our lives how we want. And if that's not what you want in a partner, then, like, it's cool. Let's just go find somebody else. I just think too many people think there's something wrong with the other person and what they're thinking, rather than, like, this just isn't a match, and most people just aren't willing to walk away from a relationship. What financial incompatibility means is simply that we have different preferences. I would prefer to have this. You would prefer to have this. Both of our preferences are so strong that it can't work together. It makes sense that you wouldn't stay together. I think most people stay in a relationship longer than the relationship provides benefit because of two things, which is, one, you have a past history of the relationship providing benefits, and then the second reason is that they have fear that they're not gonna find somebody else. Always the fear of losing the person. The reality is, is that it's the same fear that people have of quitting a job, of starting a business, of Moving away from home, it's all the same thing. It's fear of the unknown. And what if nothing is better than what I have now? And I think you have to be willing to take that risk to actually find the relationship where you are compatible in all facets are financial arguments between couples, psychological or organizational. So a common one I've seen is that somebody comes from no money, and then you make a lot of money, but you still act like you have none and that you're gonna lose it tomorrow. I was like that for many years when we experienced the success of gym launch. I think it probably took five years from when we really started making money to realizing that, like, it's not all gonna go away tomorrow. When so much of your life has been not having money, it's hard to believe that one day you have it and it like, isn't going away. I've also seen the opposite, which is where somebody comes from a lot of money and they actually don't make a ton. And then they come into a relationship, but they still spend money. And then their partner is like, hey, what are you doing? Like, you've got like a pile of debt. And they're like, ah. A lot of times what happens is that our history with money we bring into our relationships. To the other person, what they're doing is irrational. And what it really is is that they just haven't matched their behavior to match the new environment. I would set my standards for what behaviors I find acceptable. And I would not threaten them of like, I'm gonna break up with you. If I would just say, in order for us to maintain a relationship, these are the behaviors I would need to see instead. If you're not going to do those, it's cool. I just can't stay here. I'm just thinking of somebody right now. I wrote down, these are the behaviors that he needs to change for you to make to stay in the relationship with him. And then she gives them and she's like, well, he said. And I'm like, shut the upper up. He said, doesn't mean jack. Why do you think women tend to make excuses for their meltdown cars? I don't think it's that women make excuses for men. I think it's that women are more afraid to leave. They like the sense of security a man brings. There is a point of like, there are consequences for remaining the same and for not learning new behaviors that are going to help this relationship. And it's like, I've always wanted a relationship where it's Like, I'm here because my life is better with this person. It's better when I'm in this relationship. Why do you think money is such a sensitive topic amongst couples? It wasn't easy for me the first few times I ever talked about money in any relationship. But what I realized is that anything that I felt uncomfortable discussing with my spouse, I made a point to talk about it more. And then it finally. It becomes easy. There's no emotion attached to it, and then you can actually have a mature, productive conversation. Anything in life that we avoid talking about creates fear. When people get into the conversation, they've avoided it so long most of the time, you know, my advice for people is that I might look at it, like, the first couple times you talk about money, it might be like the first pancake you make. It's like, I always joke, like, the first pancake is always the pancake, right? Like, soaks up all the butter. The pan's, like, not quite the right temperature. And so, like, it turns out, like, right. But, like, from there on out, you make great pancakes. And so I look at the first few times you have these conversations, like, don't expect it to go super well. Don't expect to feel good having them. Don't expect that it's going to, like, solve all your problems, make the goal just to have the conversation, and make it known to them that it provokes anxiety in you and acknowledge the fact that you're gonna suck for a little bit talking about it. I think it makes it much easier because you're not hiding from something. If you avoid those conversations, you delay the inevitable. People are afraid that their partner's not gonna be on the same page as them. The mentality you've got to go in with is, better find out now. So now we are done with the commitment phase, and we are going to move on to the marriage phase. When is the best time to start thinking about wills for Alex and I? One of our attorneys brought up to us that we should have wills, and then we went through the process of doing that. I think it was about three and a half years ago, to be honest. The only reason I hadn't done it sooner, we just didn't think about it. We're young, in our twenties. I'm not thinking about dying. Then our attorney explained to us, you know, all of the instances that she's had to deal with of people who obviously were young and didn't expect something was going to happen, and then something does happen, and then nobody knows what to do. And That's a mess for everyone around the person. And when she said that to me, she was like, then it makes it a mess for the other spouse. I was like, oh, this feels irresponsible not to do. I would start off with that as soon as possible. Specifically, if you both have assets, because anything can always happen. What are the best solutions when it comes to having financial disparities in a marriage? Yeah, it's a common one. Like, if a woman starts making more money than a man, you know, I've had men say that it makes them really uncomfortable. And, you know, I'm like, well, then you should make more money. You know, there's so many things that I used to feel I was underskilled with, and Alex may have been incredibly skilled in those areas. And so then I would look to him and say, can you help me with that? Like, I want to learn how to do that. And he's done the same with me. And I feel like that's the advantage of being married. Rather than pointing at your partner and saying, like, you know what? I don't want you to make more money than me. You should make less money. It's like, teach me. If your spouse makes more money than you and that makes you feel some type of way, like, who better to learn from than the person that you're married to, to prefer how you can make more money. If it's the other way around and your partner makes less money than you and maybe you are feeling like it's unequitable, how can you help them? I would just try and be their biggest supporter and encourager. In marriages, when one person is down, the other person comes down. But in strong marriages, when one person is down, the other person rises up and they say, you know, I'm going to help pull you back up here. The advantage of being married is, like, you are partners. If the situation upsets you, the first thing you want to do is not approach the situation. When you're upset, you want to be able to take a step back. I would never want to walk into a conversation with my spouse feeling angry or upset or frustrated. You have to give yourself that time to calm down and to manage your emotions. As you develop the skill of emotional management when it comes to having these conversations, it will go from taking you, like a week to deal with your emotions before you can talk to dealing with it within a matter of minutes. But in terms of how do you do that, I don't think you need to do anything to feel less angry. I think that you just need to give yourself time and not be focused on it or fixated on it like it's some problem you need to solve immediately. Your emotions will fade whether you do anything or not. And then you will notice that within a few days, you. You feel more like, hey, I can go into a conversation feeling more logical. What is the best way to have hard conversations centered around money when combining your finances? When married, the best way to have hard conversations, whether you're married, whether it's a friend, whether it's an employee, is the same way, which is state the facts and tell the truth. You took out $20,000 to buy a dress last week and didn't tell me. And then you ask, what do you think about that? Because what a lot of people do is they seek to punish their partner. So they bring something up and. And the goal is to make their partner feel bad or guilty about having done it. And so instead you want to open it up for a conversation of, like, what do you think of that? Well, I think it's fine. I think I really wanted the dress. And I would say, I don't think we're on the same page. How could we handle this moving forward so it benefits both of us? And then you can lead it into a collaborative, what are we going to do next time? And I think that a lot of people over complicate these situations, but the reality is it's like, state the facts of what happened, ask that person what do they think about it, and then follow it up with a way to collaborate on a solution moving forward. How can you financially protect yourself in a marriage while also keeping romance in the vision of the relationship alive? Super interesting question, because the word protect indicates that there's a threat. Alex could steal my identity if you wanted to. My assistant could steal my identity if she wanted to. Like, I'm open book. If you're feeling like you need to protect yourself from something, I would ask two questions, which is like, one, has this person done something to indicate that they are a threat, that they will try to do something to you financially? And then the second question is, if they have not, if there is no evidence, what has happened in your past that has reinforced that belief for you? And are you bringing in past experience from a past relationship into the one that you have in the present and now you're in a new relationship, has that person done anything to indicate that they would be a threat to you financially? And if they haven't, why are you still acting in a way that you did in the situation where the Person did. And are you not recontextualizing your behavior? Because that's not going to be conducive to the future of the relationship. How do you establish financial trust with the relationship? The longer that your behaviors act in accordance with the same pattern, the more they will trust you. Now they can trust you to also not do everything in accordance. The word trust does not even mean good. You can trust somebody to behave badly. So it's like, how do you establish financial trust within the relationship? You do behaviors that are in accordance with the things you say. So it's like, if you want to establish financial trust, then you need to be financially predictable for your partner. We want somebody to be predictable. We want to feel like we know what they're spending money on because we're spending the money together. To get that from somebody is for them to do the thing enough times that you establish the trust. All right, heavy hitter here. Should you set up a prenup with your partner? Alex actually asked me to sign a prenup. I think he had, like, stocks worth, like, a couple hundred grand. And I was like, sure, I don't care. And then he tore up the prenup before we got married because he was like, you just didn't even care about signing it. I was like, well, I would never want your money that you've made on your own. That makes me. I'm disgusted by that. But if Alex died, one, I'd probably never get married again. But two, if I did get married, I would for sure have them sign a pre op. You get nothing. I know a lot of people have gotten divorced and been happy to give their wife half. And wives also have been. I mean, I have a friend who she gave her husband half. She ended up being super successful having a business worth over 100 million. And then when they got divorced, she had to pay her husband out. And she was like, you know what? I'm happy to give it to him. She was like, he was amazing. He raised my kids. Like, he did all this stuff. Like, he deserves to feel good. She's like, I mean, I hate that I had to pay him. But she's like, but he deserves it. You don't know the type of person they're going to be during a divorce. You don't. And the amount of people that I've seen be like, oh, I don't need a prenup. They're so amazing. And then they go into it, and it's usually people that they had a lot of money ahead of time, and then they got married to somebody who didn't have much money, and then they end up getting divorced 10, 15 years later. And then that person just breaks them for everything they've got. The way I see it is pretty simple. I think people should protect themselves. If you have a lot of money and you're marrying somebody who doesn't, I don't know why you would not get a prenup. I think it's gross when people get divorced and somebody tries to take the money that their partner made before they even knew them. How would you go about, like, that conversation without having, like, the emotion behind. So just avoid it. No, I'm kidding. I mean, I would state it as its mutual benefit. Hey, you know, we're getting married. We both have assets that we've accumulated on our own. I don't think it makes sense for us. Us to combine individual assets. A lot of people say, like, you should do a handshake deal. If you don't feel like you could do a handshake deal with somebody, don't do a deal with them. And I'm like, I agree with that. You should also paper it. On the other hand, if you're going into a relationship and you have no assets and no money and you plan to make it together and share your assets and money, maybe you don't need a prenup. But if you have assets and then you're getting married, I've just seen so many people get. I would totally have prenup.