How Heidi Somers Built a $100M Business From Her Living Room | Ep 260

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How Heidi Somers Built a $100M Business From Her Living Room | Ep 260"

Introduction and Background

In Episode 260 of Build with Leila Hormozi, host Heidi Summers welcomes a remarkable guest who has made significant strides in the fitness industry. Known for building a loyal following as a fitness influencer, the guest has transformed her influence into a nine-figure empire. This episode delves deep into the strategies, challenges, and personal insights that propelled her journey from managing a business out of her living room to scaling it into a thriving enterprise.

Starting the Business

The guest shares her unconventional background in biology, emphasizing that she had no formal training in marketing, fashion, or business. Starting from scratch, she had to rapidly acquire skills in various domains essential for running a successful business.

Guest [01:26]: "My background is biology. It is not marketing, it is not fashion, it is not business or anything of the sort."

Utilizing resources like Google and later ChatGPT, she educated herself on marketing, customer service, leadership, hiring, and online sales. Her initial drive stemmed from personal experiences of feeling uncomfortable in gyms, inspiring her to create empowering fitness apparel for women.

Guest [02:00]: "I knew that myself as someone that has walked into the gym for the first time and I really struggled with feeling comfortable... that moment."

Key Lessons Learned

One of the most significant lessons she highlights is the importance of creating a high-quality product. Her commitment to excellence ensured that her offerings resonated with her audience, fostering loyalty and driving sales.

Guest [03:16]: "I don't cut corners or anything. So I had to learn every aspect of the business."

Hiring Friends and Family

Initially, the guest hired friends and family to help manage her burgeoning business, often compensating them with food or social outings. While this fostered early support, she quickly recognized the challenges of maintaining professional boundaries and preventing personal relationships from complicating business dynamics.

Guest [03:35]: "When you hire friends and family, it's a different type of respect and boundary."

She now adheres to a strict policy of not hiring friends or family to preserve personal relationships and ensure professional integrity.

Guest [04:33]: "I have a rule right now that I never hire friends, and I never."

Leadership Evolution

Transitioning from being a hands-on founder to a strategic leader required significant personal growth. The guest discusses overcoming her innate people-pleasing tendencies to assertively protect her brand's integrity and quality.

Guest [07:49]: "Growing up, I was always a bit of a people pleaser... When you start a company you realize that it can be a dog-eat-dog world."

Her leadership style emphasizes calmness, transparency, and empowering her team to take ownership without micromanaging.

Guest [08:37]: "I always say I do it with shaking hands... making sure that you're not taken advantage of in the business world."

Work-Life Balance and Relationships

Balancing a demanding business with personal life, especially marriage, posed its own set of challenges. Both she and her husband run multiple businesses, necessitating deliberate efforts to maintain their relationship amidst their professional commitments.

Guest [11:18]: "We worked 12, 18 hour days all the time and barely sleeping, but we loved what we did."

They allocate specific days for content creation and product development, ensuring that personal time is respected and preserved.

Guest [13:32]: "Tuesday is my product day... Thursday and Friday I keep fully open for content."

Dealing with Trauma and Resilience

The guest opens up about personal traumas, including the loss of a close friend, and how she navigated these challenges while managing her business. She emphasizes the importance of giving oneself grace and space to process emotions without letting them derail her professional responsibilities.

Guest [09:43]: "With trauma, I give myself grace and space to feel those moments."

Her approach involves leaning on a strong support system of friends and maintaining a positive outlook, which she attributes to her resilience and ability to overcome adversity.

Guest [19:06]: "I've always just tried to survive and be independent for myself... you really just have to roll up your sleeves and do the work yourself."

Growth and Scaling the Business

Expanding from a single product line to multiple brands required strategic decision-making and patience. The guest discusses the importance of focusing on product excellence before diving into marketing or scaling efforts.

Guest [13:54]: "You can't out market a bad product... I spend one day a week fully focused on product."

Implementing structured processes, such as dedicated launch blueprints and regular team debriefs, allowed her to maintain quality while scaling efficiently.

Guest [38:02]: "We have a launch... we have debrief... what we did right, how we could do more of that."

Future Goals and Advice

Looking ahead, the guest aspires to achieve a billion-dollar impact by continuing to empower women through innovative products and services. She also emphasizes the importance of patience and strategic planning in business growth.

Guest [61:08]: "I want chickens and children and land, but still work on my businesses and keep growing them."

Her advice to aspiring entrepreneurs centers on taking action, starting without waiting for perfection, and not being afraid to take up space in their respective industries.

Guest [69:54]: "Just start... Don't be afraid to take up space."

Rapid Fire Questions

In a segment of rapid-fire questions, the guest shares quick insights about her business decisions, essential tools, and daily practices that keep her ventures moving forward.

• Best Business Decision: Launching pink leggings.

  Guest [79:55]: "Making pink leggings."

• Worst Business Decision: Waiting too long to secure a warehouse.

  Guest [80:02]: "Waiting too long to get a warehouse."

• Essential Tool: Utilizing Slack for team and manufacturer communication.

  Guest [80:20]: "I utilize Slack for my teams, but also for manufacturing."

• Daily Practice: Giving herself grace and space to manage her mental and physical well-being.

  Guest [81:24]: "I give myself what I call grace and space."

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid and comprehensive look into the entrepreneurial journey of building a multimillion-dollar fitness empire from humble beginnings. The guest's emphasis on product excellence, strategic hiring, personal resilience, and purposeful leadership provides valuable insights for aspiring business owners aiming to create impactful and sustainable enterprises.

Notable Quotes

• Guest [07:22]: "I like reading people... I know if they were a good key player or not within the first five minutes."
• Guest [33:25]: "Do things with excellence. Always."
• Guest [68:02]: "I turn off my phone, I tell my assistant... I really want to focus on how to make this glute seam perfect."
• Guest [71:54]: "Just start... It could be a baby step. It's actually sitting down and writing out your plan is step one."

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Thank you for tuning into this detailed summary of Episode 260 of "Build with Leila Hormozi." To gain deeper insights and hear the full conversation, be sure to listen to the episode available every Monday and Wednesday.

Transcript

[Heidi Summers]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to build. Today we have a special guest who is a powerhouse in the fitness industry. In fact, I think that the first time that I heard of her was 2016. So it's when she first came on the rise in the fitness industry. She started as a fitness influencer, she built a super loyal following and then has turned that into a nine figure empire. And so I wanted to go and figure out what are the brains behind this empire that she has built. You may know her as Heidi Summers. This is the Buff Bunny collection as well as her app called Rounds. Her role with the buffbunny collection is to empower women to make them feel comfortable behind the brand. It's clear that she has some very strong values around resilience, women's empowerment, risk taking. And I think what's really cool about this conversation is that in all the questions that I asked her, it became very clear that the reason that she's so successful is because she's so connected with the customer and she so believes the mission that she preaches. And so I really hope that you enjoy this conversation. Goes through everything from how she started the companies to wearing all the hats, to hiring employees, to how do you deal with trauma, to how do you stay married to somebody who has their own other business. And so I hope you enjoy. You know, you served BuffBuddy in your living room and you did like everything. You wore all the hats. And so what I was wondering is like, looking back, were the top, most important lessons that got you from working in your living room, wearing all the hats to the big empire that you've built now?

[Unknown Interviewer]

My background is biology. It is not marketing, it is not fashion, it is not business or anything of the sort. My background is biology, science and that aspect. So starting a business, I really had to learn marketing customer service. I had to learn how to lead, how to hire, how to sell online, how to run a Dymo label, everything, everything from scratch. So I think if I were to say one thing that helped me the most is probably Google.

[Heidi Summers]

I love that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So I knew nothing about the industry. I just knew that myself as someone that has walked into the gym for the first time and I really struggled with feeling comfortable and feeling lost at the time that I wish I would have had an outfit that made me feel powerful at the moment. So that's kind of what drove me to do it.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I knew in order to do that, you know, whatever I do, I do it with all they might like. I don't cut corners or anything. So I had to learn every aspect of the business. And I do owe that to Google. We had ChatGPT back then. I would. I would have been on another level.

[Heidi Summers]

Right. Like, that would have been so easy. So did you have any mentors in the beginning or anybody that you could talk to, or did you just have to wing it?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I really just winged a lot of what I did back in the day. I like to say that I created a wonderful product that I'm proud of.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And one of the very first things I wanted to do is I sought on to create a pink legging. I'm very girly. I love to lift weights. But I thought there was just something so powerful about putting on a pink pair of leggings, going into the gym, and being able to deadlift £200. Oh, yeah. So that is what I really focused on. It was like tunnel vision and, you know, learning that whole business coming from zero, you know, zero knowledge. I wish I had, like, 4 or 5% or something, but it took a lot.

[Heidi Summers]

And in the beginning, did you mentioned, like, you've hired friends and family and things like that? Like, how has that evolved over time in terms of, like, how you find people to help you bring that vision to life?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I would say I have a rule right now that I never hire friends, and I never.

[Heidi Summers]

Were there any experiences that led us to that?

[Unknown Interviewer]

There's. Yes, there was a few.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Which is not a bad thing. It's just when you hire friends and family, it's a different type of respect and boundary where I'm so grateful for the friends that I had in the beginning because they really helped me so much. I would pay them with, like, Chipotle. I would pay them with, you know, food and snacks. I was like, come over.

[Heidi Summers]

I'll.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'll buy your drink later at the bar if you can help me pack these orders. But it was such a wonderful time just being able to have all my friends over pack orders. But I realized very quickly that, you know, especially if you give them a glass of champagne before you start packing orders, that you're gonna have a lot of errors, mess ups, inventory issues. But it's still some, like, fond memories to look back on. I'm so grateful that I had the support that I did with my friends. But now at this point, yeah, I've realized that when you do, if you hire someone who's a friend first, it's really hard for them to shift that mentality where I'm really good at being able to be, like, right Now I'm your friend and right now I'm, I'm.

[Heidi Summers]

The owner, like putting one hat on versus another.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So I'm really good at being able to shift those things. But I realize that some people aren't, you know, they, they get their feelings hurt very easily. They struggled with constructive criticism if they're a friend first.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So now I have this boundary to where I really try not to hire any friends or family because I want to, I want to cherish that like friendship and that family member a different level. However, as you work with team members, they, I do get close with them. How come not, I would say, like I, when I got married, I had quite a few of my employees at my wedding because I was like, these are the people that I love and I work with very often. So I feel like you have a little bit of crossover.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, I mean, it's like, I think it's funny because people are like, where do I draw the line?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Where do I?

[Heidi Summers]

And it is blurred. Especially when you're mission driven and it's what you do all day, every day and you put your heart and soul into it. It's like, well, of course you become friends with the people because, you know, I've, I've talked about that before, which is like some of my closest friends are the people that I work with because we get put in situations, more hardships than I do with my friends outside of work. Right. And it's like when you're in a pickle and something happens or this breaks or that and you have to figure it out together. You, you bond more than you do with your friends outside of work where you just go to dinner or lunch or in movies and weekends. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, that's really, that's really good point. Did you have any times where you had to, like. I know for myself, I can think of, you know, I brought a few friends in and then I had to let them go. Did you ever have to do that or was it just like a mutual parting of ways?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think most of the friends that I hired were always more of subcontractors, never full time employees. I, I learned quickly that, you know, smart. Some subcontracting was kind of my way to test the waters to see if this would be a good fit. And I was like, this is not a good fit. Yeah. And I realized that I didn't want to full time hire any friends or family just because I wanted to protect those relationships.

[Heidi Summers]

Well, that was smart.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I've had times where I've had family members and friends, mostly friends. I'd be like, I want to work at your company. I have one friend, she is amazing. Oh my gosh, she's the most brilliant minded person I know. But I was like, you are so brilliant in the engineering side of things. I don't have a place for you. I can't really utilize your brilliance in my company.

[Heidi Summers]

Right.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So you should stay where you're at or find something else that makes you passionate about it.

[Heidi Summers]

Do you do that for a lot of people in your company? Like, are you constantly looking at, like what are you best at and are you in the right seat?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. Because sometimes you'll, you'll look at an employee, be like, you are way too brilliant. I love the word brilliant. Like you are way too brilliant to be where you're at. And there's been a few times where we have moved up people and, and sometimes they, they're lit, they're happy where they're at, but you can see their drive. And so we'll approach them and be like, you need, you need a managerial position or some, sometimes even a director position over time. That's always fun.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, that is fun. Giving people new opportunities. I love that. Something I wanted to ask you is I know that you're fairly involved in the operations of the company. How have you evolved as a leader? Because I think, you know, there's the external of what people see happens, but then there's the internal. Like how have you had to change to recognize the company to get to the potential that it has now from going from biology in the living room to now a nine figure company. Like what's changed most, most with you?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Growing up, I was always a bit of a people pleaser and I love people and my love language is acts of service. So I love being able to do things for people.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And as a leader, I think earlier on, before I had my own companies, I would not get walked on, but a little bit. Right. Like I'd be like, oh, that's okay. I'd let things slide.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But one thing that I've changed drastically as a person is as soon as you start a company you realize that it can be a, what's the term? Dog eat dog world where people, everyone take advantage of you.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And there's a few instances earlier on where I realized I was like, okay, I don't have an investor, this is my money I'm putting in. And so I was extremely protective of the inventory I was purchasing and making sure that it was nothing but a masterpiece, as I like to say.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So I was very careful how I would spend my money and making sure that it helped the brand. So there was a few instances where I just really had to put my foot down and I was scared. But I live by this term. I always say I do it with shaking hands. Right. So as scared as I was to be in this one room, there was like, I don't know, 15 different people in there. And it was me and my part time assistant at the time. And I was like, I will not be purchasing this inventory because my customers deserve better. And this wasn't what was approved. I mean, they tried every single way to try to get me to purchase this inventory they had made incorrectly. And I was like, I won't do it. And I remember leaving that room and I was like, I was so proud of myself in the moment. My part time assistant was basically shaking. She was like, I could have never done that on my own. And now she's like crushing it. She's no longer my assistant anymore, but she has her own business now and she's absolutely crushing it right now. And I couldn't be more proud of her. So it's like those instances that you work through together and it was just baby steps at the time. I think it was before I even launched the company. But learning lessons like that really helped you be able to like set boundaries and really just making sure that you're not taken advantage of in the business world.

[Heidi Summers]

What do you think brought you the awareness of that? Was it just the fact that you really wanted to build an amazing company or was it something else that told you that that was something you needed to learn?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I don't think anything really transpired to make me think that way. But everything that I do, I always think about, like the community of women that I've built over time on social media and. Oh gosh, what's that Spider man quote? Um, with great power comes great responsibility. Yeah, I love Spider man growing up. Same. I think when you build a social media presence, you should be so careful, like what you put out online. Not careful to the point where you're changing who you are as a person. But I think that if you have people who trust in you, really making sure that whatever you put out there, whether you're doing a product review or you're building your brand, you should do it with excellence. And I think when you know whether it was like it was a T shirt that I was screen printing on that I said no, to or a legging that I'm creating from the ground up. I always think when this gets in the hands of a customer, will she be so proud to wear this, or could we have done it differently to make her feel more empowered along the way? Everything I do, I think with that mindset, and I think that's really helped me be able to put my foot down. And I just think, like, the girls deserve better.

[Heidi Summers]

I love that. That's really admirable.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you.

[Heidi Summers]

You know, as you're saying that, I was wondering, like, how this being the one that's running the company and also being the face, because you started doing essentially both from the beginning. How has your time, like, has that been a conflict for you? I guess I have a lot of questions about it. Has it been a conflict for you?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, gosh, absolutely. Especially because my husband always also owns multiple businesses. So, I mean, there was times where, I mean, we'd be working 12, 18 hour days all the time and barely sleeping, but we loved what we did. And even now, like, I love what I do and I get so excited to wake up every day and I'm like, what are we working on today? You know, and of course I have my agenda meetings. But if I have a meeting cancel, I'm like, ooh, what can I dive into? Like, what? What can I dive into that I haven't dived into lately for different departments?

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But I think one thing that I've learned over time is I don't want to micromanage my team. It's like sometimes I'll see them doing something and I like to give them guidance, but I don't ever like to tell them exactly what to do. You know, whether they mess up a little bit, they learn. So I had to learn that over time. That was hard, especially because, you know, I'm like, I know what they should do, but I want to get them to learn. Because social media brands, it's a newer thing.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And being able to find people that understand and know what to do. Especially because you have so many little PR moments. You know, you have big ones, you can have small ones. And knowing how to navigate through that as well. At one point, I was creative director, marketing director, CEO. I was like head of product. I did a lot of operations, although I am the CEO and I do a lot of operations, but I would say I'm more on the creative side of things.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I have an amazing CEO who was like, heidi, I'm the brains, I'm the logistics. You be the creative. And But a lot of putting out fires and being able to do operations, there's a lot of creative in that as well. So we work really well together.

[Heidi Summers]

That's amazing. How is your time split right now between like building the brand and being, you know, the main face of the business versus being CEO and how do you, what do you enjoy most about both?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Great question. So my weeks are definitely going to see my calendar. I'm sure yours is crazy too. Yeah. The way that I kind of lay out my week is Tuesday is my product day. So I'm in the design room for minimum eight hours. So then I usually go home, I get in a workout and then I will kind of digest and process everything that we kind of went over.

[Heidi Summers]

So I could go through the whole, every a whole day a week going through the product.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Exactly. Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

I'd want people to hear that because how many people do you think actually do that? Not many.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Not many?

[Heidi Summers]

No. So many people. And this is, that's so important because like that right there when you said that, I'm just like, that's why your brand is ahead. Because so many people, they're just, they would fill that time with marketing or being the brand. But you're fit, you're filling it, making sure that you're staying ahead with the product. That's really cool.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you. I think it's so important because it starts with your product. You know, it's like you can't out market a bad product. You can, I know some people have done it, but it's not a long lasting company or business. And so I spend one day a week fully focused on product. I, I turn off my phone, I tell my assistant, I was like, you can come in if it's urgent, if you need me. But I really want to focus on how to make this glute seem perfect or create a sports bra for a crossfitter who's going to be doing all these different movements. And I really need to be able to focus on those then my Mondays meetings are usually split between Grounds, which is my fitness app, and then buffbunny Collection. And those I do leave, I would say about three to four hours in those days in order to take urgent meetings if needed. And those are my meetings that I have with my personal branding team, Grounds and Buff Money Collection. Wednesday I try to keep just for Buff Money Collection meetings. And then Thursday and Friday I don't take meetings unless it's urgent. So I keep those two days fully open for content. So if I need a film content, I'M like, great. I have two days dedicated to it. And for a while, I was really great at it. And then. Then all these urgent meetings kept coming up, and I would have to put my foot down and say, is this actually urgent? Or can't wait. Wait until Monday? And so creating those boundaries really helped.

[Heidi Summers]

I mean, that's pretty structured. That's like. I mean, I know how it goes, which is like, you have the structure, and then it's like, somebody die and you're like, oh, man. Okay. Just kidding. On that day, we're doing this instead. But that's. That's really cool. What. I'm kind of curious. Like, back when I was in fitness, I didn't make. There's. I didn't make much content. You know, I got. I could post a few things online and get a client immediately. Right. Because it was like the heydays. It was like 14 years ago. But, like, you came up and your brand has been built in fitness. Like, have you ever at any point felt any pressure or negativity or, like, need to conform being in that industry specifically where. Because I imagine, like, you're this very smart, very powerful woman who's running a company, but you're also putting yourself out there in fitness and essentially being a model for your company. And so it's like this juxtaposition of two things where I'm guessing people often put you in a box. These are also very beautiful. I'm kind of curious, like, what has that been like for you? Just the pressure of having so many eyeballs on you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think when I first started social media, if you look at my old videos, I mean, they're so awkward and cringy. Every once in a while, one comes up and I'll watch. I'm like. But I. I enjoy it because I think that I've grown so much as a person.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think when I very first started filming, I was very nervous. I do still get nervous doing any type of public speaking. It's like my worst fear right now, and I'm really trying to conquer it. I've done like two. I've done two, like, little mini events.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Podcasts I just really enjoy because I feel like it's just a conversation. So I don't really get too, too nervous with podcast. When I started filming for YouTube, you know, I was extremely awkward, I think is the best way to put it. But I really just thought about. I'm just talking to a friend, and I think that really helped me get comfortable over time, like, fairly quickly Ish. But I think the person that helped me the most is probably my husband. So when we started dating, he was like, you worry about too much. Stop worrying. Just put it out there. And I was like, you know what, you're right. So he really helped me come out of my shell a lot. Now when I, you know, hop up on social media, I really just look at it like it's a big girl group chat because that's how my community is. Like, they're so fun. That's the way that I always kind of, you know, for someone Instagram live or I'm creating a YouTube video. I just think it's just big girls group chat and it's made me a lot more comfortable kind of chatting. And when it comes to business, I would say it's difficult because when you have a team, you have this brilliant team who does incredible things, but then sometimes, you know, issues happen, little mistakes happen, of course, which I'm all about saying, you know, it's okay, you can make mistakes, just own it, be transparent, move forward. That's all you can do.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I like to think that I'm a very calm leader. I remember my, I had a director of design who was, she was new and we had a product that we had to push out into another launch. We're launch based. So if all of our product that's coming from all over the world doesn't come in on time, we have to move back a launch or we just have to drop an item. Yeah, I don't remember if we have to move, we move the launch back or if we had to pull launch out. But I was just listening to her case. I was like, okay, this is happening. It's out of our control. So we're going to move this. Boom, boom. Okay, what's next? And she was like, you're not mad? I can't. We don't have time.

[Heidi Summers]

Too long time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

We don't have time to waste. It's okay. Things happen. It's out of our control. Yeah, Solution, then move on. And that's how I've been able to move pretty quickly. But when PR things happen, that can be hard because sometimes, you know, it can be a mistake on my end, which I'm like, hey, I'm gonna own it. And then sometimes if it's a mistake by an employee, that's hard because sometimes I, I own it just to kind of COVID up for them and. But sometimes, I mean, the Internet people can find out all kinds of things and like, they'll be like, this Wasn't Heidi. This was. And I'm like, guys, like, leave them alone. And so it can be really hard when all the eyeballs are on you, because sometimes they'll blame you for everything, and then sometimes they'll try to pick on your team and you just gotta. You just gotta, like, stand up for em, you know?

[Heidi Summers]

Have you always had such a positive mindset? You seem very resilient.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You know, I was talking to my sister the other day about it. I think that I've always just been a person that has constantly just tried to survive.

[Heidi Summers]

You're like, actually, I'm just trying to survive right now.

[Unknown Interviewer]

We were just talking. She's like, heidi, you've always worked so hard ever since you were young. And I've always just maintained a positive outlook. I guess I've always seen the silver lining. And I think something that I've realized recently is I have always just tried to survive and be independent for myself. I've always had this mindset where it's like, no one's coming to save you. You're. You're just gonna save yourself. So there's not like a friend who's gonna save you. There's not like a knight in shining armor who's gonna come save you. You really just have to roll up your sleeves and do the work yourself. And I think that I've just had that mindset since I was young, since.

[Heidi Summers]

I started working, especially because, you know, it was interesting. Cause I think that the. I mean, you can probably see just like how in culture things shift, you know, And I think a lot of people do want somebody to just come and save them. And so it's unique to hear. To hear that, especially from saying, you're beautiful. You have so much going for you. You could probably find a guy to take care of you. You just go on a date, right? You could when you weren't married. So when I first got into fitness and I was a personal trainer, I remember I was talking to a couple of my clients, this was in Orange County, California. And they were talking about, I'm going on breakfast, lunch, date. And I was like, girl, what know, we're at 7am, we're training. And she was like, you don't understand. She's like, why are you working so hard? And I was like, what?

[Unknown Interviewer]

She.

[Heidi Summers]

Why do you work so hard? She's like, just go on a date, breakfast, lunch, dinner. Get someone to take care of you, and you don't have to worry about it. It's funny because never had that mindset.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Either.

[Heidi Summers]

The fact that you could think that somebody else could take care of you, it was like I just wasn't programmed with whatever that is. It sounds like you weren't either. It's just like, was not in my DNA.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Terrifies me.

[Heidi Summers]

Terrifying. Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah. I don't, I don't know why. Why are we like this?

[Heidi Summers]

I don't know. Self sufficient?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think so. My.

[Heidi Summers]

You have a dad.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I have. Yes, exactly. That. That could have been it. Also, I think maybe the different relationships that you have in life. I don't hate any of my ex boyfriends by any means, but I think that I've been in some relationships where I had a hard time trusting them. Where, yeah, maybe I just felt like I could never let myself be taken care of by some of the previous relationships that I've had where I was like, okay, I want to be able to provide for myself and for my kids. And I guess I would just hear stories about, you know, women who did do that and then they were like, you know, they were just tossed aside for some younger girl. I don't know. So I think what I just realized really young that I just want to take care of myself. And then I met my husband, who is a wonderful human, and I was like, not that I would ever stop doing everything that I'm doing, but I think it was the first time that I felt really safe in a relationship in the sense of I know that he's got my back no matter what. And I think it was all my other previous relationships. I think that I learned so many different things. I wouldn't say that any of them were toxic by any means, but I think that my husband was probably my soulmate, where we just like clicked.

[Heidi Summers]

And when did you guys, at what point in building your brand and your business did you meet him?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I had done a few different, like more merch style launches. Because I don't, I don't know if you remember, but whenever you were a YouTuber or you doing social media, you had merch, you sold merch. So that was my first step, was doing some T shirts that said buff bunny on them. And I didn't think that people would really even purchase them. I was like, this is a word that means a lot to me. Yeah, putting that on a T shirt. I was like, I hope people like it. And they loved it. And I did like two or three merch drops. And then I did one main buff bunny collection launch. It's like my first official launch, like leggings and bras and things like that we had met each other, like, years prior. I think we had two, three small conversations. And then I didn't see him for years. And he came up to me. I think we're in the uk. And he was like, Heidi. And I was like, christian. I was like, Christian. He had grown. He's four years younger than me. And I've never been interested in younger guys.

[Heidi Summers]

Cougar. No, I'm kidding.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I know I always say that. I'm like, oh, my gosh, look at me.

[Heidi Summers]

But it's funny because you're short, so, like, I would think you're younger than him. I just don't know.

[Unknown Interviewer]

He gets. I get carded all the time. Like, especially in Vegas. There's been a few times where they've taken so long with my ID, and I'm like, I'm 35. Come on. Like, let's go. And they'll look at my husband, like, no ID needed. And I'm like, poor guy. Like, some. Four years. Four years older than him.

[Heidi Summers]

It happens to my sister. She's like seven inches shorter than me. So people always think she's my kid. So I get it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah, it's a short thing.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, it is.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

So you guys met. You're in the uk.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes, we met in the uk or we knew each other. Been years. He came up to the uk and he was just like, you know, it's been a few years. And he was like, yo, congratulations on everything you're doing. Um, I think I had done, like two merch launches, and he had his company. It was like a year and a half later. There came to a point where we were both single. He figured out a way to talk to me, was through business. Cause I wouldn't give him the time of day. He asked me to be an alpha. An alphalete. Athlete. Like, an athlete for his company. He would send me DMs. I would just ignore them. And then as soon as he started texting me about business, it was like, yeah, I'm sending these novels back. This is how I'm doing. My. My stock colors or my custom colors. My moqs are about this much. And that really. He really got me there.

[Heidi Summers]

It's like. It really got you going, huh?

[Unknown Interviewer]

He just. He knew what to do, which was talk business to me. And I was like, I'm intellectually stimulated.

[Heidi Summers]

No, I love that. I think that makes a lot of sense. You guys meet you both. You know, he has his thing. You have your thing. How have you managed to have to. I would say, like, both have separate, very successful businesses and have your successful relationship. I would say maybe. What was it like in the beginning? Maybe figuring that out and then where. What has it evolved into?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Great question. I think when we first started dating, it was fun and exciting. And the first time he came to my house, I'll never forget my. My assistant at the time, she was like, Christian's coming over. And I was like, yeah. She's like the enemy. Cuz he had a clothing line. And I was like, oh my gosh, he's not. She's like, what if he's just dating you? Just steal your ideas. I was like, he's not stealing my ideas. He's gonna go look at these big brands. He's not looking at. I just started. I've had like one big launch. Yeah. But he came to visit and she had tore down. It was like an idea mood board and she had ripped everything off and put it. Put it away.

[Heidi Summers]

So he can't.

[Unknown Interviewer]

He comes in, he's looking at my office, he's like, there's nothing on your mood board. I was like, my team doesn't trust you. So it was really fun. The beginning, we definitely had our hurdles. Part of me was like, man, I wish we worked for the same company. There's times in our careers where I was like, I wish we both owned the same company so we could have two strong minded people on one company.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But there was a few times where I would stay up late with him and work with him and I was like, I do not want this. There's no part of me that wants this. Just because both of us are extremely creative visionaries and we have all these ideas and we need someone to actually execute. Execute them. And I'm more, I would say I'm almost this hybrid of I have these really great ideas and I can execute them and I can wear these two different hats, if you will, where he is just a brilliant mind and he will. He calls himself like someone that kind of like bulldozes through it. Right. And I was like, I like to have plans. So I think we, we quickly realized, you know, it's actually better that we have our own separate companies. He has his own style, I have my own style. It's actually great. Technically we're competitors, but I'll come over to him and be like, hey, this like glute seam is really crushing it right now. And then he'll come to me and do the same thing. He's like, don't do capris or not doing great. And so we oh, that's so cool. Actually use that to our advantage where we let each other know what's, you know, truly behind the curtain, of course, what's doing well, what isn't. And I didn't have mentors during my come up of business. But I think that one thing that really helped myself, my husband and a lot of our friend. Friend group is that we kind of all came together. We were all business owners. It's myself, my husband and I think like three or four other. Three or four other guys in Houston and we all got together and we would be like, great, here's a great website person, here's a great photographer, here's a great model. Don't work with this person. This person's great. And we kind of built this group of people. They say that you're the average of the five people that you spend the most time with. And I think that was a huge part of how we all flourished. Like all, all of us kind of came up with our own companies. They've all been successful. And I think it's because we really leaned into each other.

[Heidi Summers]

It's almost like your own little board of directors.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. But all with our own separate companies, which is really cool.

[Heidi Summers]

That's so interesting. And you found people that weren't. Didn't feel like it was competition. They felt like you were all getting something from it. They weren't. Scarcity mind.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. It's funny because I think all of us had a clothing line.

[Heidi Summers]

That's crazy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So we had this common denominator of we all had a clothing line. They were all a little different though. So mine was like definitely more on the feminine side. It's like if you took, you know, a bodybuilder woman or a woman who loves to lift weights and she really wants to stay in touch with that feminine side. That's Buff Bunny. And then my husband has his company, which is a little bit more of that alpha masculine, a little bit more masculine side of it. And then our other friends, some of them had more street wear style. Everyone had their own personality to it. So were we competitors? Sure. But we all had our own style to it and we were all looking out for each other's back. If there was a model that was just really hard to work with, we can't let each other know. Or if there was an affiliate who's just crushing it and she's not exclusive, we're like, hey, everyone should be working with this girl. She's really pulling at sales. So we all really helped each other.

[Heidi Summers]

And the through line that I'm seeing here through, like talking about your husband and talking about your friends is just collaborate, don't compete. Seems like that's how you do it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I don't think any of us are really competitive. If anything, we get excited to let each other know. Like, this is really, this is helping a lot.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, no, that's really cool. It's so unique to find too, because, you know, even in my last company gym launch, I mean, we would have people so competitive to the degree that they're like, if there's anybody else that's using this program that's in my city, I don't want to do it because then we're going to be competing. And I was like, well, you can either compete with one hand behind your back or you can compete with both. Like, they are. And I was also like, if that's what you think your competition is, then that's tough because competition is your laziness and the fact that you have this mindset.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You get so much farther with collaborating.

[Heidi Summers]

Right. And now do you both, like, in terms of like, how you manage, like, you have a very demanding company. He is a very demanding company. How do you manage having time together? Do you plan it? Do you, do you plan it? And he just shows up like, how does that work?

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's a good question. I'm definitely big planner, big plan girl. Love my plans. I'm like, great. You want to, you want to hang out? Let's put this in for 5 to 7pm Like, I can't help it. It's just who I am as a person.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

My husband's definitely more of like that free flow. Like, let's just go with the flow. And I'm like, I need to plan. What of a planner? Yeah. I would say we are at the point now where we are able to just unpluggish on the weekends. I say ish because tomorrow we both actually have a launch on the same day. I'm like, why haven't you this. Tomorrow we both have a launch tomorrow. Yes, his. His is like a big launch. Mine is just. I have launches every six to eight weeks or so. But I have a wonderful team who I can trust. Like, I could just completely clock out. They can handle it. But I'm very hands on. I love being able to do it as much as I can. I would say our thing is we have a trip that we like to go on every summer and we try to be gone for like a month. We're like, let's Push, push, push, push. And then we're going to the Caymans for a month. So three or four weeks or so.

[Heidi Summers]

Wow.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Favorite place. And what do you do?

[Heidi Summers]

Like, how is it going from being on, on, on, on, on? You're just off for a month? Like, I. I know. I'm asking for myself because I'm like, how do you just unplug for a month?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Not really unplug. I'm sorry.

[Heidi Summers]

Okay. You're like, no, no, I still check my email.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, no. I still check my messages. My husband and I will. For, like, three or four weeks. We'll be on the beach, let's say that. And we will drink margaritas, and we will eat chicken tenders, and we just. We work out sometimes, and we just, like, really enjoy each other's time. We do this thing where we do, like, a tipsy Q and A on most of our. Our yearly thing where we'll have a couple drinks and we'll answer fun questions.

[Heidi Summers]

Oh, like on your social medias?

[Unknown Interviewer]

On a YouTube. Yeah, we'll just, like, answer. And it can be, like, business related, personal related. Both of us are very transparent online, which makes it really fun. But then there's still some things that we just keep to ourselves as well, because, you know, boundaries.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, but I'm sure. I understand. Cause I get the questions, too.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I'm like, yeah, exactly. But I think my husband's really good at unplugging. He will just, like, turn his phone off, and it'll. It'll be dead for a week. He's like, it's okay. And I cannot do that. Like, he'll go off for a swim on my cup. And I look at my phone, I'm like. I'm just like, look at these messages. Can't help it.

[Heidi Summers]

No.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But I don't feel drained by it. I love it. I feel like if I didn't check my check on my team for a few days, I would probably feel just very anxious. Like, I want to make sure that they're okay and if they can do anything that I can do. Yes. And it's not to say that Christian doesn't care, but he's like. He's really pushed himself to different levels that even I haven't pushed myself to. So I think that he kind of needs that unplug.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah. Yeah. Some people are different. What's your philosophy around work life balance or work life integration? Do you have any way that you penetrate that into your company? When people come in, like, you're like, hey, this is how we do things here. These are my views on how these things work.

[Unknown Interviewer]

The three words that we tell our team whenever they come working, you know, when they come to work with us, is three things is excellence. Everything you do, do it with excellence. Don't cut corners. Don't quickly do something. Like, everything that you do should be like a masterpiece. Like, you're so proud. Proud of this work. That's something fun. Where in the past, you know, I'd have like a team member, maybe they want to, like, push a design forward or they want to, like, post this graphic. And I'll be like, if we did a. Because I do polls, I think it's really helpful for getting that data from our community. Be like, hey, would you all like to wear this legging or this legging? And they'll let me know right away. And I'm like, perfect. I love it. And so they'll be like, hey, we were unsure about this. We're not sure. And I'm like, did you ask the community? Go ask them. See what they think. And a lot of times it can make them feel very empowered by being like, wow, we got a 90%. Yes. So I have this thing where it's like, it has to be 80% in order for it to be a masterpiece, if you will. If it's below that, it's like, let's go back to the drawing board a little bit. Continue to improve it until we get that 80%.

[Heidi Summers]

So you're not ever asking your team unless. Or you're not ever launching anything unless you have an over 80%?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Not quite. I think that my team, like, we know what does well, but if we're unsure, we're like, you know what? This is a wild card.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah. Yeah. Something new.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. We have this pool of people. It's about 150 women. And we'll be like, what do y'all think about this? And if we get an 80% yes, we go for it. And. But there's been times where we've gotten like a 90% no. And like, the team is like, we feel strongly about this. I'm like, I don't know about it. I don't. And so I like to get pull. I like to get that data. I'm like, great, let's take that concept that you want to do. Let's put it somewhere else. Doesn't mean it's a terrible idea. It just means that it needs a little bit more TLC before it's a masterpiece. That's really helped. So do things with excellence. Always. And then transparency. I think that the best, the most best run companies is run by a transparent team. So being transparent with, you know, your employees as a leader, but then also coworkers, it's like, just be transparent. If you forgot about the project, you did it wrong. You didn't, you didn't make the best decision in that moment. It's okay, just own it, be transparent, move forward. And, you know, if we mess up as a team, as a company on something, I just tell the team, you gotta be transparent with the customers. You know, did we launch a legging that was, I don't know, slightly sheer? Own it. Don't try to hide it. You can't hide it. It's transparent. Yeah. So we do everything with transparency. And then our other word is diversity. So everything you do as an inclusive brand, making sure that we are diverse. Diverse in the product, diverse in the way that we educate diverse on the website and trying to make sure it.

[Heidi Summers]

Fits all shapes and sizes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes, exactly. So, yeah, do everything with excellence. Transparency, are those your values?

[Heidi Summers]

Okay, so those are the three.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

Oh, nice. You know, it's funny, I don't often meet somebody who only has three. It's like most people have like 10.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I used to have 10.

[Heidi Summers]

Did you?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I did have 10 there. It was a long list of 10. And then I just, I narrowed it down to like the three main ones. And we do want to continue to build. We're like, okay, these are the three most important things for our internal team to like, really understand in order to perform really well. You can remember three. Exactly, you can remember all three.

[Heidi Summers]

I think it's actually takes more discipline to have less values than to have more. You know, I've walked into buildings where they're like, these are our 10 values. And then these are our 16 principles. And I'm like, the, it's like, I'm like, okay, honesty, integrity, this, that, blah, blah, like, frigging, what the hell?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Like, yeah, it's too much.

[Heidi Summers]

Just all the nice words in the Alphabet, you know, and you're like, yeah, so we want to be good people, not liar to your deal.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right, exactly. And when it comes down to it, I just love team. Like, just make good decisions. That's all it comes down to. I think there was some company had that in their company handbook. The handbook. And said make good decisions. And I was like, I love that.

[Heidi Summers]

And if you can't find someone who knows what that means, then they shouldn't be in the company.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Exactly. So, yeah, we used to have 10 principles and I can't even tell you what those 10 principles are because it was 10, eight years ago when we had those. And exactly what you said, I was like, it's a bunch of motivational words that don't really mean anything. So we narrowed it down to these three that have so much meaning and power behind them. And I'll like, you can remember three. That's a good way to explain that to them.

[Heidi Summers]

I love that. That's really cool. I know that your brand, you're very mission focused. I'm curious how you determine what the next move is. Whether it be for a funny collection, whether it be for grounds. Like, how do you decide what you say yes or no to? Because there's so many people that they're never going to reach your level because they just simply don't say yes or no to the right things. You know what I'm saying?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

I'm curious, like, do you have a method for doing that, or has it been purely guided by the desire to help women?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think it's a. A little bit of a. So funny. I. I don't like the word balance. I was like, it's a little bit of a balance. You could say where. I'll use this for an example. I wanted to start a fitness app eight years ago, and I thought, you know what, Buff Money Collection or fitness app, I was like, I'm gonna do buffbunny Collection. But once buffbunny Collection gets to the point, point, once I've built a team, I've built the brand to where I'm comfortable. Taking a baby step back in order to be able to handle having a whole nother business, a whole nother team of employees that are completely different.

[Heidi Summers]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm going to wait for the perfect time, but not too long. I did wait, like, quite a while, but I didn't realize Buff Money Collection would grow to the point that it did. So good problem to have.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But I waited till the right moment to take a step back and then build grounds. Choosing that moment was. Did I feel absolutely ready in that moment to do grounds? Not really. But I was like, this is. I think I can handle both of them. It was. It was a bit of a struggle at first to try to manage.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think it's two separate companies that are different. You have a physical good and I have a digital good. Completely different businesses, different worlds trying to know. And now it's like, okay, what's the next move? In order for both to grow in that sense, we have so many different opportunities that come up. Everyone's telling you what you should, what you shouldn't do. I would say a lot of, a lot of it. I hate to say it's my gut, but you really have to weigh all the decisions. Right. So right now we thought, you know, what do we want to go into the retail space? We can either have our own stores or we can partner with retailers. So that was a decision. We were like, great, how can we do both and leverage both of those? And so it's like decisions like that where you almost have to really like, draw out the plans for both. Like, what are you, what's your five year goal for. Yes, for both sides. Which one do you want to start with first and then being able to bring in the second one. Right. So if you're going to do, you want to do overall retail, it's like, great. If we want to do both, let's get into other retailers first, use that leverage and then have our own stores.

[Heidi Summers]

So you don't have a problem being patient.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm not the most patient person in the world. I'm like, like, let's go, let's go. I'm always, me and my CEO, we're always trying to figure out ways that we can. We're like, how do we get from idea to execution short?

[Heidi Summers]

Totally. And I think that's just, that's strategic.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

I think what it is, is even in just saying that though, you're like, you know, and then in a couple years just put yourself like, I know that you. But think about so many people that are starting that majority of America is small businesses that are doing less than 5 million in revenue. Why do they not get to the size that you're at? Another reason I think is because the lack of patience. When they, when you talk to somebody who has a small business, they speak in dates. You're speaking in years.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

And you're talking about, okay, if we do this, then in two years we can do this. Whereas if I speak to somebody who's a smaller business, people are talking, well, you know, by next month, you know, and that's going to take. That might take three months. I'm like, oh my God, it would take three months to do that. Jesus, what are we going to do in the meantime? You know, build another business. Might as well. Yeah, you know, so I think that that definitely shows and what you're talking about too, with like, you know, there's a theory that I have which is like, most people work really, really hard just on the wrong Things in the wrong order. And it sounds like you put a lot of thought into what's the order of the sequence of how we're going to do these things. Because if you gain leverage on one, then it makes the next one easier. Which it sounds like is what you're thinking through with these opportunities now.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes, I think with looking at the businesses in different departments. Buffbank Collection, for example, when I first started the brand, I didn't think it would, you know, do that well. Right. Took me a while to get a warehouse. Cause I was like, I don't know, I was thinking in that, that small business mindset, we were like, oh my gosh, I can't get a warehouse and sign a three year lease. That's crazy. That's three years. Absolutely not. Yeah, but I think with each launch I got a little bit more confident. And then also I was like, there's only so much space in my house to be doing a fulfillment center right now. I need space. I think what I did is I built this blueprint for launches. So what we typically do is we have a launch. They're fun themes. It's like, I want women to feel something special with each launch. And we really, we have a debrief. Every time we have a launch, we have a debrief and we go over, hey, what is everything we did right? How, how could we do more of that and less of the things that we didn't do very well? And so I think that helps. And those are things that my team does now and I'm, I'm in most of them. And it's fun and it's exciting to see all the different department heads we like really crushed on this sometimes. It's great. We had a couple exclusive athletes that absolutely crush and sell. How can we get more of those? How can we build on that side of the business? These ads did really well. How can we look at those ads and be able to branch off of those ads in order to do more like that and the ones that did poorly. Why? Yeah, and being able to make sure that we don't do ads like that. Again, that didn't have a good, you know, performance.

[Heidi Summers]

No, I think that that's part of, I mean, because as you're talking about everything, it's like customer focus at groups, product innovation cycles, like constantly iterating, like getting the feedback from. It's just like. But those are such things that so many people don't do. It's like, what do I do? And you're like, I don't know, ask the customers. Like, it's an obvious answer, but a lot of people are so far from the customer even just to know how you speak. You're constantly referring to the women that you serve. I think that that alone, I mean, it's clear to me that's a reason why you're so successful, is you're so in tune with them and you're connected, which I think part is probably from your brand and having that constant feedback. But I think another piece is that you have to integrate that into the company, and you obviously have. And it's such a key piece that so many people that I hope are listening to this hear, because so many people forget about the customer. They get too focused on the ads, the marketing, that this, the cash flow, the P and L, the hiring, firing. They forget who they're doing it all for.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. And that's why, you know, whether it's Buffalo Collection or Grounds, whenever I'm making big decisions on. On product, I always think I put myself back in that mindset of myself. You know, when I. When I gained some weight, walked into the gym and just felt terror. You know, you're so scared. You don't want to be there. And I was like, what would she want? I remember there was one moment, I know exactly what you're talking about, where some people, they lose focus of like, who's this for? Who is the customer? And they're just thinking, oh, marketing ads and this. And we were building grounds. We were building a dashboard for macros. Right. I was like, okay. When I first started doing macros is very overwhelming. So they're looking at the different options they can have for, like, a layout for the macros.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And they're asking all these girls, they're asking these trainers, they're like, oh, does this make sense? Does this make sense? I was like, you're asking the wrong people. Those are not the people that are going to be.

[Heidi Summers]

No.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Confused. I was like, ask one of the girls. I was like, have you retracted your macros? She goes, no. I go, great. Can you look at this? And she was like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, great. That's the answer that I wanted. Back to the drawing board, right? So it's also making sure that you're asking the right customer that you're targeting as well.

[Heidi Summers]

I think it's a really, really good point there. She's like, what's a macro?

[Unknown Interviewer]

And she's like, exactly. And that was the response. And, you know, the team was like, no, no, we're we're confident this is. This makes sense. This makes sense. And they're going around asking all these advanced trainers, and I was like, no. I was like, my younger self would look at this and just feel more overwhelmed. We need to make this so easily digestible for a newbie so she feels confident when she's utilizing it.

[Heidi Summers]

It's funny because I have a couple of people in the company that are super, super smart, very intelligent, and every time they love an idea, I'm like, oh, well, then it definitely won't work because you're. You're not who we're talking to right now. Like, you're just. You're. This is not how most people think. And then they'll be like, okay. Or they'll be like, I hate that. And I'm like, great, then people are gonna love it. And they're like, what? And I'm like, see? You hate everything everyone else loves. So this is a great indicator for me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

So I think that's really smart to be able to lock in on that. I'm curious. When you're talking about, like, gathering the information from everything and. And being able to iterate on the next steps, like, along the way to building the brand that you have and the companies that you have, I'm sure there's been a lot of failure. How have you been able to. I mean, like, have you had any moments where you've been like, I don't know if I'm gonna do this anymore? And if so, like, what do you tell yourself to keep going?

[Unknown Interviewer]

A few years ago, I was creative director, marketing director, had a product, and it was. I was wearing so many hats that I was like, man, I love what I do, but I know that I can find someone that does it better than me. I went to school for biology, and I dropped out. Come on. There's a lot of other people out there who could do these certain positions and do it better. And I can just give them my feedback. Like, this is how I want. I think with creative, it was hard in marketing because I'm a storyteller, and I love to make women feel a certain way with our campaigns. And so even now, it's like, really working with the teams in order for them to understand the meeting. And I can't help it. I love going on set. So I'm like, can I just, like, can I go to this one? Because this. This story, I really want to make sure it comes to life.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I always tell the team whether or not someone's going to purchase. I want to make them feel something when they watch these videos. So we've done really powerful videos just that make women think, like, I can do this, I can do hard things. And so with some of the videos that we've done as well, some of them are a bit jarring where it's like, oh, God, like we did this one for Grounds and it was about calling out, you know, like the. The waist trainers and like the skinny tees and like, all of that. I was like, man, a lot of companies make so much money selling this, but they're kind of bullshit products. Let's make a really emotional tying video that relates to women. Like, tried utilizing all these things and then really all they needed was like a call from their mom to like, snap them out of it. And so I really love storytelling in that sense because I was like, maybe someone's not going to download Grounds or they're not going to purchase a pair of leggings, but at least we made them feel something. And I think for me, that means more to me than like a sale. And that might be a. A terrible business move. But I think me focusing on that and hyper focusing on it actually helps sales. So because women felt something when they watch that video, they feel a lot more tied to that pair of leggings because it made them think of that video that they watched.

[Heidi Summers]

You know, there's people that I speak to and they build a business so that they can make money, and then there's people that I speak to that they want to build a great product, want to help a community, want to build a great team, and they make money by consequence. So I think you fall into that camp and I think that's way more sustainable. Because, I mean, if you're just doing something for money, that gets really old quick and you could probably have already been done by now, you know what I mean? So I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I think that's really cool.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think it makes the days. I think if you're doing it for money, too, I've had a lot of people, I've gone to a lot of expos. That's always a question. Like, I want to make a lot of money doing fitness stuff. I strongly encourage you to find something that you really love to do that. You know, when you get up in the morning, especially after eight years, you're just as excited. If it's just money you're looking for, you won't have that excitement, you won't have that drive on like the days where you just be like, I'm so sick of putting out all these buyers.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, a hundred percent. I agree with you completely. Because especially people ask me all the time, how do I sell my business? I'm like, holds your business? It's six months old. And I'm like, so it's six months old and you already wanna sell it? They're like, well, I started it so I could sell it. I was like, that is going to be a painful journey. It's like I had a kid so that I could get them out of the house. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

It's like that's. You're just asking for ending before it's even begun. I was actually saying I wanted to ask you is like, you know, in building the brand and having the success, have you ever at any point in time thought about or been approached of, like, having somebody come in, invest in the company, taking some chips off the table? Has that ever been anything that you've considered?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think for me, if we did, my husband was approached by someone that wanted to do the same thing. They're like, I'll give you all this money and we want, like, part of your business. And he was like, the money isn't the problem. I have a lot of money. The problem is I need someone to help me function like this, this company. I want someone to help me with the employee side of things. And I think for myself, it was like, I felt the same way at the time. It was a couple of years ago when this was going And, I think three years ago. And we were like, we are so blessed because we have so much income right now from our companies. It's more of if we did. It's someone coming in to help us structure. Because, you know, as creatives, that's the hardest part for us. Like, we just want to run. We just want to run. But sometimes it's like you need to continuously build out. It's like a continuous blueprint of bringing in all these different positions. So that was one. And then I know when I created Grounds, when we launched, I had multiple people come forward and were like, I will invest. I will do this. And I was like, I'm not ready for that yet. Like, I want to keep building. I have so many plans for Grounds that are. No one's ever done before.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I'm so excited to launch them. And I was like, I don't want anyone to take a piece of Grounds right now because I have so many other amazing plans that I want to do. And I would be nervous that someone might be like, slow down a little bit, like, but I want to continue running. There have been times too, I think I had a. I have a friend who's like, oh, like, I have all this money saved up. Can't just, like, put it in grass. I'm like, that's not how it works.

[Heidi Summers]

You're like. And then suddenly.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

What? Yeah, exactly.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Like, that's not how investing works. But yeah, I think, wow.

[Heidi Summers]

So it's been all this time and you've not. That's really. That's a testament to how much you love the company. I do, because most people that I. I speak to too. I mean, I've had a company for as long as you have, especially around like the, I would say, like five to seven year mark is when people like, tend to be like, I want to take chips off the table or do this or do that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think that's a good way to put it. I would be open to taking chips off the table.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But to completely sell it, I don't think I love what I do right now.

[Heidi Summers]

Oh, yeah, no, that would be tough. Especially with, like, if you're tied. I mean, it's something that I, as somebody who I'm on both sides, I'm like, don't fully sell a company that you're the face of because then, you know, oftentimes you have to sell your name, image, and likeness to them, and then they basically control you. So it's like they almost become your manager to a weird degree, which a lot of people don't know. I know some people who have gone through a transaction and they've actually come to us and be like, how do we get out of this? I'm like, I can't even help you. They sell 80% of their business. They don't realize they. They sign away all their rights to basically, like, control their brand. And then they basically have to work for the company that buys it, which doesn't do what in a way that they would have done it. And it's like, if you're already successful. Yeah, it's. It's a difficult thing to do. I think it's. I also think there's an interesting shift that I do think is going to occur, which I think will be interesting for someone in your position, which is a lot of investors even right now are talking about, rather than looking for products to invest in, the new way of doing, like, venture capital, for example, is that they want to look for people to invest in Brands, and they're going to go brand first and then say, great, now how do we use our operational expertise to help them build businesses? So I know some investment firms, for example, that are now just targeting, like, people on YouTube with, you know, 10, 15 million followers that don't even have a business. And they're saying, we're going to invest just in your. Your YouTube channel. And so I think it's going to be a really interesting landscape. So I'm interested to see the next, like, two years. I'm sure people will approach you, but you already have these very successful businesses as well, so it's going to be an interesting time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Like, like I said, I would be open to taking chips off. I think that with. With Buff Money Collection, I did this with Grounds, actually, and a lot of people were confused. They're like, why didn't you call the Buff Bunny app? But I did that very strategically. I did that on purpose. So for buffbunny Collection, I used to be like, the face of the brand. I was like the model doing all this. But if you actually look at the Instagram, I. I don't really model very often for it. I kind of, like, take my own personal brand and I push buffbunny Collection, and I love to nerd out and talk about the products. I'm like, we put this welt pocket right here.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I enjoy it. So with Buff Money Collection, I'm no longer the face of it because it's an inclusive brand. So we actually, like, are always looking for different types of one to shoot for the brand. When I created Grounds, I did so very strategically. I was very advised against launching with five trainers or like, you're crazy. You should launch with you and then add trainers. Now, would that have been easier? Yes. But the purpose of Grounds is to be an inclusive app. That way, you know, not everyone's gonna relate to me. They're gonna go on the app and they're gonna be like, okay, she's in great shape, and I just can't connect with her. I wanted women to go on the app and see one of the five girls be like, ah, I connect with her more. Maybe. Maybe I'm in my early 20s. I feel more comfortable doing daily. Maybe I am 40. I feel more comfortable doing Kara's. So I really built each trainer, brought them on very strategically so a woman could feel at least one personal connection with a trainer.

[Heidi Summers]

Totally.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And then also, I wanted to separate the name because I felt like it was important for buffbunny Collection to have its own identity and also grounds to have its own identity. In case I ever wanted to sell one or the other, it wouldn't get both.

[Heidi Summers]

No, that makes a lot of sense. I also think if you're being advised in the beginning, it's easy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I love the laugh.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah. Well, it's like, sure, launch it with just you. Easy now, hard later.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

And what you did was hard now, easy later.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

Because. And that's really always the trade off we're making, which is like, it's either gonna be hard in the beginning or it's gonna be hard later. Which. Which one do you want? Yeah, choose your hard. It's funny because I think, I don't know about you, but I think going through my own, you know, fitness journey, I lost a lot of weight. Like, yes. That taught me so many of the skills that actually applied to business. And I feel like that might be where you've gotten a lot of yours too, because it's like the patience, the being long term minded, the being willing to work your face off, being willing to be uncomfortable, like all of those things. I feel like fitness in a way is like such a good breeding ground for entrepreneurship. Because you agree.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, a higher percent. Yeah. I think for myself, I, I think the, the hardest time of my life was when I did. Have you done a bodybuilding competition?

[Heidi Summers]

I did a bikini competition.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. All right. Yeah. The whole era, we were all doing it, right?

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That taught me so much about myself, I think because at the time I was in college, I was just starting YouTube. I was working full time job, part time job, a different full time. I was doing a lot.

[Heidi Summers]

Four jobs, right?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. I think when I did the bikini competition, I was doing three parts, possibly, or it all kind of blurs.

[Heidi Summers]

More than one is a lot for.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. But what I did is I found jobs. We were like, four jobs is a lot. It was one full time job and then other jobs that paid me a lot for a short amount of time.

[Heidi Summers]

And so that was the way I.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Kind of maneuvered that.

[Heidi Summers]

Also.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm structuring this so I can make overall more money for less time. Yeah, I was doing that when I did a bodybuilding competition. I was just astounded at the progress that I made in my body. And for me it was hard because, you know, day after day you're not seeing changes. Right. I was like, I've never had a six pack and I totally did it for vain reasons. You know, I was like, I lost a lot of weight. And then bodybuilding, the Bikini competitions, everyone was doing them. And so I was like, I would love to see if I could get a six pack. That crazy. And so me following this regimen and I coach myself, so I like taught myself how to prep, like what all goes into it. All the macros, all the things. And I remember lifting up my shirt, it was like towards the end of the prep, I was like, oh my God, I have an eight pack. I gotta find these photos. Yeah. I was so proud of myself. Cuz I woke up a lot of those mornings just like in tears. Cause I was so stressed out. I was so tired. But I was so proud of myself because I was like, I came out of this, I was in school too, so I got straight A's. And I was like, this is temporary. And like during that semester was like the hardest time. I was like, if I can do all of this, I can do anything. And so that hard semester taught me so much about myself. I mean, I pushed myself past any boundary I thought that I had. And with prepping for a show and just doing fitness in general, when you're meal prepping and you're following a fitness regimen, you have to be so dedicated and you have to have boundaries. So even if you're a people pleaser, you have to say, nope, sorry, I gotta work out.

[Heidi Summers]

Can't eat that nacho.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Take this tequila shot. Well, no, I actually can't.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

As much as I want to. So you really, you really learn boundaries and how to set up your blueprint in order to get what you want.

[Heidi Summers]

I'm curious, like, what your. Did you do one or two or how many competitions?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Three.

[Heidi Summers]

And why'd you stop?

[Unknown Interviewer]

So the first one I did and I got. I do have a little bit of competitive set to me.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But it's. It's fun, right? And my first show, I got fifth place and I was like. And I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I remember going on stage, I didn't think they would call my number. And so I'm staying there and they call my number. I was like. So I walk out there and if you look at the I. And I documented the whole thing. So I go out there and I'm almost doing this like, salsa routine because I do love salsa dancing because I didn't practice the posing. I was like, they're not gonna call my number. Yeah, because I. I was told, like, okay, there's. I don't know, 600. It was a big show. 600 competitors, I believe it was. So I didn't think I would get called. Wow, I didn't research enough. Clearly I should have, but they called my number and I ended up getting fifth place. And I was like, so ecstatic. Went out with my friends, hold my trophy. I was like, I did it, guys. And they're doing. You want first place? I was like, yeah, but I'll try again later. So then I tried again. I got first place. I was like, okay, that was exciting. So then I did one other show, first place again. And then for me to, to excel in that, I knew that I'd have to take my body to extreme levels. And so I really had to sit with myself and think, am I doing this? Do I want to go to the Olympia stage one day? Is that my goal? If not, maybe I just do these for fun. I want to do them every once in a while for fun. And also I wanted to really speak to women that were that girl for me. Right. When I was just walking to the gym for the first time, I was like, my goal isn't to be Miss Bikini Olympia. My goal is to just like help women get from their starting point to just take a step forward. And me doing competitions, I feel like didn't align with that. So, like, I love the sport and I tune in and I watch Olympia and I'm like, oh my gosh. And like, I'm all about it, but I just, I stopped competing.

[Heidi Summers]

I still watch it as well.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You do?

[Heidi Summers]

Like, yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Chris Bumstead.

[Heidi Summers]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I remember being 23 in my apartment by myself. It's before I know I was 22 in my apartment by myself on the couch, my futon, watching it on like, I can't remember where it streamed live on the, like for the first time watching like Kai Green and like some of the OGs competing. And I just like, I thought it was so impressive what people could do with their bodies, you know. And then when I competed for the first time, it's so funny to look back at the pictures because, like, if I look at what I looked like versus now, what did, what's expected on stage, it's crazy. I was expecting me to actually qualified, like, what the hell's going on? So it's funny because I had similar reasons. I was like, does this help me accomplish my long term goals? You know? Cause I was going to compete in figure next because I wanted to do figure two. Did you? Okay, yeah. Right. And so I said, I'm gonna bulk, I'm gonna do a crazy workout routine. I'm gonna. And I Got like four months into it and we were building gym launch and I said, how does this align with my goals? And that was kind of what did it for me was I was like, this does not help me accomplish any of my goals. And if anything, I actually feel a little more isolated now because now the people I'm around, they're not competing and doing these things. They're building businesses and they're, you know, I'm learning all that. And so once my interest shift changed and I think also understand the cost of what it would take to even compete and figure, I was like, I don't think it's. It's for me anymore, you know, so. But it did, it taught me a ton. Do you think you learned more through the process of it or do you think you learned more through winning?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, the process. I didn't really care for a trophy. I mean, yes, I was a little bit competitive, but I told myself going into it, I was like, whether or not you win any placing. And it. My favorite part was the journey. I think that I just became a more. Well, it's funny because it's technically an unhealthy sport, right? People see these crazy physiques on stage and they may look healthy, but technically it's an unhealthy sport, right? For me, I just. As much as I respected the sport, I knew that again, it was getting me away from my long term goals and the extreme measures that I would have to take in order to keep going. It just, it wasn't worth it.

[Heidi Summers]

What are your long term goals now, like, personally and professionally? Do you have goals that you've set for yourself or, or a vision for what you want for your life?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think right now I'm at the point where I'm so proud of, you know, buffbunny collection and I love grounds. I'm at the point where I want to keep building the brands because I just enjoy it, doing it every day. But my husband and I, we just bought seven and a half acres of land and I want chickens and I want children and. But I want to be able to do it all.

[Heidi Summers]

Chickens and children.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Chickens and children. I'm about chickens, children and land, but still work on my businesses and keep growing them. My COO and I often talk, she's like, heidi, this is gonna be a billion dollar brand. And I was like, I want a billion dollar impact. So we'll kind of like make jokes back and forth with each other. And she's like, I love that. So now instead of saying like, we Want a billion dollar brand. We say we want a billion dollar impact. Because she knows for me what's most important is the way that women feel when they, when they wear the clothes.

[Heidi Summers]

I love that. So you want chickens, you want children? Chickens and land? What, what's to get there?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Cats. You know, there's a lot of goals that I have in life.

[Heidi Summers]

How does that change what you do on a daily basis? Or have you thought about that?

[Unknown Interviewer]

It doesn't really change too much. I know having kids is like a whole other, it's a whole other thing. I have 16 nieces and nephews, so I'm like, I, I've seen like my sisters and you know, they're superheroes doing all the things that they do. I think, you know, step one, we got the house, we're gonna renovate, get the chickens. We're trying for kids right now, hopefully soon, crossing the fingers, but we, I mean we have, let's see, my two businesses. My husband has a gym, a clothing line, an energy drink, a bodybuilding league. So I still get the bodybuilding side of things where I get to go, I hope, help judge them.

[Heidi Summers]

Do you have people to support you both personally that help like you manage all this? Like whether it be executive assistance people that help with your house or your just day to day stuff, or how do you get the support that you need to do everything you do?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes, great question. So I have an amazing executive assistant. She is always looking out for my, my best self. Like she'll be like, hi, do you have a lot of meetings? Are you sure you want to do that? Or you know, you're, you're landing at midnight and you have an 8am meeting, are you sure that's the best idea? So she has my back. He does have an executive assistant and we definitely have someone that comes help us take care of the house, clean it. She comes twice a week. That was, that's been wonderful. We have great teams on every single out of all technically eight brands that we have. We have great teams that we've established to help run each one. Yeah, I think that's what makes it a lot more manageable. And then I'm extremely careful how I sort out my calendar and I have like really good boundaries with my team. And I know my executive assistant, she's really great. Now where she'll look at the meeting and say, what's the agenda? Does Heidi actually have to go to that one? Like, we really only need her at like the most important meetings. But if I have a manager, director that really wants me there. For certain ones that are out of my normal calendar, I absolutely respect that. I'm like, if they want me there, there's a reason.

[Heidi Summers]

Was there a point where it shifted for you? Where it went from, like, working all the time, putting in, wearing all the hats? Like, what did you have to learn to get yourself out of that because you'd learned boundaries prior, but then at some point, you realize I kind of have to wear all the hats. Was it a skill or was it a mindset shift that got you to now be to the point where you have your sanity and you have your time and you're going to get your chickens?

[Unknown Interviewer]

My chickens, Yeah. I would say the biggest thing. And I'm sure small. Small businesses struggle with this. So when I started the brand, I'm like, okay, I have no experience in this. I have no mentor. I have no loan. I have no business partner. I have nothing. It's just me and my crazy idea that I can do this. And so as I started hiring people, that was a whole new thing for me. How do you even. Where do you even start when it comes to hiring people? So I hired a girl as my personal assistant. That was my assistant for, like, a month, part time.

[Heidi Summers]

Okay. I thought you would be, like, for forever now.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, no, no, no. But she quickly turned into full time and then, like, helping me with buff bunny collection. So I was just moving very fast back then. Wow.

[Heidi Summers]

Y.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I hired her because at the time, I was like, okay, I am filming and editing and uploading all these YouTube videos and doing stuff on Instagram. I'm online coaching. I'm doing all these things. I'm at my laptop, like, 18 hours a day. Can you just, like, help me go grocery shopping? Like, the. The little things went a long way for me just so I could be at my laptop.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

When it came to her, I just hired whoever applied. I was like, yeah, you seem cool. You seem fun hanging out with. I'll hire you. Yeah, she's amazing. So trying to hire the right people was such a big struggle for me in the beginning. Now I feel like I have a really good system. But in the beginning, you just don't.

[Heidi Summers]

You don't.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You don't know. Fit.

[Heidi Summers]

No.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So you're blindly going into this, trying to pick the best people. But I think one thing that I have is I'm really good at reading people. So I don't know how. I don't know if it's a gift or what, but I look at people's resume and I. I usually knew if they were bullshitting or not. And meeting them usually in the first five minutes, I would know. I'm like, this person would be a good, a good key player or not. And then as time went on, I think for me, you know, you hire, you fire, you try to grow, you try to build this infrastructure of employees. But you always have this fear when you're first starting. Like, someone comes along and they're like, oh, I have like all this experience, but they cost more, right? They come with experience.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're like, oof, I'm not ready for that. I was afraid, not that they would do a better job than me, but I was like, I'm scared that taking on employee when you're very first starting with no experience. To me, I took it so seriously. I was like, I'm supporting this person and their family. This, this company has to succeed.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Like, because I'm thinking of that person and their family if they have a kid, like a wife, husband. So I was super scared to hire big hires back then, but as time went on, I think for me it was three or four years ago. I hired, I hired some people before then that were bigger hires, but I hired a true coo and she changed my life. Completely changed my life.

[Heidi Summers]

She managed all the brands.

[Unknown Interviewer]

She manages Buff my collection. So she came in and she was like, some of these people are amazing. And you know, we'd have conversations like these people need to be promoted. They're amazing. I'm like, yeah, right. And then some other people, she was like, we need to give them KPIs and if they're not performing, we need to find someone else who can take us to the next level. And so she really helped me build structures. Like I had loosest structures, but we came together and really she's like, what's important to you? For KPIs. And so we really built all these KPIs for the different department apartments. And that changed my life. Cause for the first time I could go on vacation and not be checking my phone every minute because like everyone was coming to me for I was a problem solver in every department. So now they went to her first, which was great. And then if she figured out, she would come to me, which saved a lot of time.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's huge. What do you think in terms of hires that changed your life? To get buffbunny to where it needs to be and to get grounds to where it needs to be. What key hires do you think Come next.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right now?

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah. To get you to the next level, to get you elevated in your role. Who do you think you need to bring in now?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I would love to hire. I think a, A CMO would be amazing. I actually never had a marketing director until like five months ago.

[Heidi Summers]

Wow.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I just hired my first marketing director because we have this blueprint, right? It was. And it was working. It still is working.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But I knew that I was like, in order for us to grow, we need to look at the blueprint and find ways to expand on it.

[Heidi Summers]

Of course.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I can't do everything right. So I hired a marketing director. I was like, oh, I can't believe we haven't had a marketing director. We've only had as soon as you get them.

[Heidi Summers]

You're like, how did I not have this?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Exactly. I mean, she came in guns a blazing. I was like, I love this. This is great. I want more of you. We need more of you in order to do more. It makes sense. And so I think expanding in the different marketing roles. But I would love eventually, sooner than later to have a cmo. Whoever sees all of it. I did have like a social media manager and I did have a influencer marketing manager, but they would also constantly come to me in the past and they were like, what do we do? Like, this is a blueprint that we were doing and they were always afraid to execute in the past. But then over time we brought in some new people who have really like elevated those and then I think a CMO would be great. My marketing director's great. Phenomenal.

[Heidi Summers]

Love her cmo. What about cto? Do you have an app?

[Unknown Interviewer]

So I have an amazing product development team on ground side and they're, I mean, they're incredible.

[Heidi Summers]

Doing great.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Like what, what they did with Grounds in such a short amount of time is wild.

[Heidi Summers]

Like that's really.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You think about all the different features that they put into there or put into the app. I would say it's probably like a 5 to 7 year app for other companies to get to that level. And we did that in a year.

[Heidi Summers]

Wow.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So, I mean, there's a lot of engineers working on it, but head of product, he's also one of the co founders. He started the app with me.

[Heidi Summers]

Heard, okay, so he says I'm too like a semi CTO type. I'm. I'm curious, like for you, looking at the impact that you've had of just what you've done in the industry and like who you've been able to be to all these Women. I know that you often speak to the women who are wearing the clothing and using the app, but to speak to women who want to be you and do what you've done and what you've accomplished, if you had to give them three of your best pieces of advice to those younger women who aspire to be like you, what would it be?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I would say my best piece of advice, which I often tell women is, you know, or men, is just. Just start. I think a lot of times we get wrapped up in needing a perfect plan. And even myself, I'm a planner, I'm like, I need a plan, a new strategy, and I will move forward. But a lot of times we let that hold us back from actually starting. And, you know, even when it comes to when I'm bringing on new hires or I have a girl that comes up to me at an expo and she's like, I really want to start this coffee mug company. I've had people, I've had a lot of girls come up to me. They're like, I want to start this brand and I love it. I get. I start nerding out. I talk too long, but I always tell them, well, as stupid and silly as it sounds like, you just have to start it. It could be a baby step. It's actually sitting down and writing out your plan is step one. But to actually start, it's start on that actual plan that you're. You're laying out. If you want to start a coffee mug, go get a sample made. That's you just starting.

[Heidi Summers]

Take action.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Take action. I think that a lot of people just wait for the perfect moment, and there's never going to be a perfect moment. There was never a perfect moment to start Buff Bunny. There was never a perfect moment to start grounds. I always felt like, is it the right time? I was going to go for it. Just. Just start it. And I'm so glad that I did. So that would be my biggest thing. And another one is not being afraid to take up space. I think a lot of people, they like to almost. They have this brilliant idea, but they're so afraid to take action and to. To. To start because they're like, who am I to create this company? I'm like, well, who am I to create Buff Money Collection? I don't think that I'm anyone special. I came from a small town, and again, I feel like I started the brand really scrappy. I started my living room with nothing but just a really big dream. And so it's like, who am I To do that. And Google. Google, man, if I would have had chat gbt, y'all. Y'all got chatgpt now. Like, y'all better use that.

[Heidi Summers]

You better have multi million dollar companies. If you're watching this, it's just.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's wild. So I would say that the two most important things is just start and don't be afraid to take up space.

[Heidi Summers]

I think it's so many people, it's just like, I don't know how many times I can be like, just. Just go do it. Yes, just go. And they're like, but I. This. That fear that. No, just. Just do it. I swear, like, I'm scared too, still. Every day when I'm doing new stuff all the time, it's like, you just get used to it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You just gotta do it with shaking hands. You know, just. It's okay to be afraid.

[Heidi Summers]

So much more graceful way. I'm like, the plan. Fuck your mood. Follow the plan. You're like, do it with shaking hands. I like that. Very graceful.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think. I think for me, I've had people say. I think my two annoyances is when people are like, don't be afraid, Just do it. I'm like, I am afraid. There's nothing that you're going to tell me that I'm not going to be afraid. So the way that I phrase about it or the way that I rephrase it is it's okay to be scared. Just do it with shaking hands. So when I first did my public speaking thing, I was so afraid. Like, I got up there and I'm like, hi. But I was like, I'm terrified to be up here. And I started feeling more comfortable just being transparent about it. And then I just got more comfortable as I started speaking.

[Heidi Summers]

Is that what you're trying to work on right now?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes, actually. Because I would love. I love podcasts, but there's events that we do sometimes. Like, we did a grounds event where we had hundreds of women come out. I'm like, I'll put you guys through a workout.

[Heidi Summers]

That's cool.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But I got so nervous when they gave me the microphone. I'm like, it's not a conversation. You know, I'm just like, thanks for coming, guys. So I want to get better in that sense. I think that's. That's definitely a big goal of mine.

[Heidi Summers]

How do you think you get better?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Well, I hired a speaking coach.

[Heidi Summers]

Oh, I did.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Very first session the other day, which was great. Yes. He's amazing. Because I say filler words a lot. Again, I've. I feel like I've done business in a very scrappy way. And so I just want to get better, but I don't want to lose myself. Like, I want to stay me. And so I told the speaking coach, I want to stay authentic to myself. I just want to get better. You know, you can always improve.

[Heidi Summers]

I think, you know, it's really interesting. Something I can relate to is when I first started making content about business, I watched my content talking about something that I do on a day to day basis, and it was so bad compared to Alex's content about something that he'd never done before. And I, like, could not understand why that existed. And then one day I was talking to one of my friends, our friend Trevor Cashy, and he was like, there's a very big difference between being able to do the thing and being able to talk about doing the thing. And then I realized, this is about three years ago. I'd spent my entire career doing business, and now I needed to talk about doing business. And it's a completely different skill.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It is.

[Heidi Summers]

And one, I know it sounds so ridiculous to say the difference between the two, but I, I kind of, I feel like that might be what you're looking at right now, which is like, I recognize that somebody else, like when I told I would tell Alex, like a concept I had, he can still to this day tell a story, explain the thing in a way better than I can. And I'm like, my mind blown by it because I'm like, what the hell? I spend all day, every day doing this thing. And why is it that you say in two seconds it sounds so much better, right? But it's helped me so much to understand it's two different skills because it's also helped me with my team. When people are trying to get promoted, they're like, why is it I'm, I'm working harder? Why don't I get promoted? I was like, well, being a manager is not about doing marketing. It's about teaching and communicating marketing, which is a completely different skill. And so, I mean, it makes complete sense to me. It's like you spent this whole time doing this, doing these things, talking to your customers, talking. Now it's a, it's just a different.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Skill that makes so much sense because it's exactly what I did, where I would just do it and when I would first start doing podcasts. Right, well, how'd you do it? I don't know how to explain it. I just do that because I've been doing it for so long. But I was always nervous about speaking about what I did because. And it was my friend Max, he put me on his podcast and that was the first time, you know, I ever spoke about business success and money. I was always like, I just do fitness, I make leggings. And people knew that I was, my business was doing well. Yeah. But my friends were like, why don't you ever talk about how well the company is doing? And for me, I think I looked at, I was like, I don't want people to look at me differently in the sense of the community. I was so afraid that they would look at me and be like, I can't relate to you now. And that complete opposite happened because, you know, Max put me on his podcast and I and I shared a little bit. You know, he's just, he's a best friend of ours. He's being bullet true. So he's like, you know, share a little bit about this. Okay. But after that it was a huge moment for me because then I had all the. It turned from people asking me so many fitness questions. Now I had so many women coming to me and they were like, teach me about business. How can I market my brand, how can I start my business? And it was something I was so afraid to speak about. Ended up being the biggest blessing because now I have so many women that come to me and just ask for advice and marketing and creative and tips and how do you just start and. And I loved it that much more.

[Heidi Summers]

That makes a lot of sense then that that be the next thing that you focus on. Because I think I still have the same that you're talking about, which is like someone will be like, how did you do that? And I'm like, you just fucking do, you know, but you gotta explain it right? And so for me, I don't know if this helps at all, but studying language has helped me so much.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Really.

[Heidi Summers]

One of my friends, he's a behavioral psychologist and understanding the impact of the words you say on how people are able to do things and it's just behavioral psychology. Studying language has helped me just really understand how to articulate the things that I do in a way that is digestible for people at least. I still am very self conscious about it because I think that when I don't, when I haven't thought through a concept, I can hear it come out because I'm like. And I over explain and go here and go here and all these ways around. I think that the best way that I've learned is Just by doing it, watching myself back on camera, so watching the YouTube video, watching the speech I give, watching the short I do, and then being like, you don't know that well enough. Try it again. How can you say that in a simpler way?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

And I think oftentimes the people who are best at business are actually the people who aren't the best at explaining it. You're too busy fucking doing it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're too busy doing it. Exactly.

[Heidi Summers]

So it's like, we need you to figure it out because we need more of this. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. Yeah. My. My. The other co founder with. With Grounds, he's the one that's been pushing. He's like, heidi, you have so much knowledge. Like, you could help so many more women. He's like my biggest cheerleader, as I call it. And I would tell him, I was like, I don't. I don't know how to explain it. I just do it all the time. And so he'll be like, okay. He'll try to, you know, extract it out of me. I was like, I just do it. I just. I just do it. And so now I'm trying to, like, work on how to explain it. And it's in a better way. That's digestible.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Because I can do that with clothes. Like, I can explain. And this is something that my design director and I do like. She's very, very technical. And although I know a lot of the technicalities of textiles and. And how to create fabrics, I'll be listening to her and we'll be on a podcast thing for behind the Design. I'll listen to her like, all right, so what she said, it makes your butt look rounder. And then people are like, ah, I get it.

[Heidi Summers]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And so. But it's great because they learn the technical side of it. And then I take that and I just say it in a more digestible way for the girls.

[Heidi Summers]

Yes, that's exactly the comparison that I made for myself was okay. In fitness. I understood biomechanics and physiology and all those things what I went to school for. And I'd be training women, and they're like, what? And I used to be like, well, if you do this, your deltoid is going to enact. And then when did that. And then if you have a bigger rear delt, and that's going to support your. And then I had a Mandarin. He was like, like, what the fuck? He was like, they only work out with you because they want to look like you. And I was like, I Hated that. I was like, don't objectify me. And then he was like, it's the truth. He was like, tell them the simplicity. Like, you will have a bigger. But it's just everything always came down to that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right.

[Heidi Summers]

And so that's what I end up doing is just like, ah, you're gonna get bigger ass. And then they'd be like, oh, amazing. I'll do the exercise. But no, I was like, this will engage your adductors. And if you engage your adductors and your abductors at the same time, and then nobody cared.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're like, what? What's happening? What's going on? What's an adductor?

[Heidi Summers]

Exactly. Well, I love that for you. That's a really cool new chapter to go into.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah, I'm excited.

[Heidi Summers]

I wanted to go into some rapid fire questions.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

Which are like just quick whatever's top of mind when I ask you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, gosh. Okay.

[Heidi Summers]

What's the best business decision that you've ever made?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Making pink leggings.

[Heidi Summers]

I love it. What's the worst business decision you've ever made?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Waiting too long to get a warehouse.

[Heidi Summers]

Really? Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

My poor house was rough. I mean, you're having employees in and out, you're having boxes delivered and I mean, it was. I waited too long. I could have done it earlier.

[Heidi Summers]

Okay, here's one that I'm curious about. What's one tool or software that you can't live without? Camping grounds.

[Unknown Interviewer]

1. Oh, yeah, camping grounds. No, no, no. I'm a plug.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean, there's so many. But I think the way that I utilize Slack is unique. So I utilize it for my teams, but also for manufacturing. This is something that most fashion teams don't do. They do everything through email or they'll have some other platform. The tech pack, we have all those, but we assign like a style number to each one. And we're able to OCD organize all of our tech packs. It's like in this channel, we're only talking about this item that comes out like a year and a half. And so, I mean, the slack, it's crazy, but with each manufacturer we have a certain slack set up. That way, like you can completely focus on, I don't know, the. The one for our seamless manufacturer. And every single thing, like nothing gets lost.

[Heidi Summers]

It's actually really interesting.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Falls through the crack.

[Heidi Summers]

I've never seen anybody be able to get manufacturers from for something like that on Slack.

[Unknown Interviewer]

They don't like it, but they do it. We do everything through emails, like not with us. No, this is. Nothing gets lost when you do it the way that we're doing it.

[Heidi Summers]

That's really cool. What's one thing that you do every day that you believe keeps your business moving forward?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I give myself what I call grace and space. So a lot of times, like our calendars get really crazy. And so I look at my day the day before and if I, you know, if I can tackle on more, I do. But I look at the day before and if I feel like, okay, I'm getting. I'm starting to get sick, I'm not feeling well, going through something or like this other project needs something, I will look at my calendar and if I need to move a meeting, which I hate, doing some like, time. Yeah, I'll remove a meeting if I need to just like take time in order to, you know, mental health, physical health, whatever I need. That's something that I'm, I would say that has kept me going. Place and space, grace and space.

[Heidi Summers]

Did anything happen that triggered you to like, I need to do this stuff for myself?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I went through a period. Was it 20? I think it was 2019 when I had my company and you know, we were multi million dollar company and I was in San Antonio and my husband wanted me to move to Houston. And this was a really hard moment. Imagine having a multi million dollar company and no employees because I had three. And they were like, we don't want to move to Houston. But they were like, we're so supportive. We're so happy for you, but we don't want to move to Houston. So actually for a short time, I had a multimillion dollar company that I moved to Houston with zero employees. So I had to start from scratch. I like quickly was like higher in was like, hey, you, you worked at a gym, great. I think you could be an office manager over here.

[Heidi Summers]

You'll figure it out.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So trying to build this team in Houston in a new city. And then I had a phone call where I had a friend pass away. And this was when I had. Shortly after I had moved to Houston. And I remember it was a time where, I mean, this was like my best friend.

[Heidi Summers]

Oh, God.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And sorry. Thank you. It's okay. There's. There's been a lot of time to process and everything, but I think for me being in that moment, I wish I had an answer to give people. How to get through trauma. When you are an entrepreneur, when you're doing it scrappy or you're doing it on your own and you go through this traumatic experience And I had just hired this team. They're counting on me, and if I don't show up, the business doesn't grow. So I think for me, I use that moment to kind of, you know, I would cry before work, and then I would go into work, cry when I got back. And I really learned how to give myself grace and space, I guess, as I call it. So it's like if I'm going through something, letting yourself feel that trauma right away versus holding off and just, you know, I'm gonna drown myself in work. It's like work was a great distraction, but I knew that I really had to feel this trauma that I was going through. Otherwise it was gonna be like this elephant in the room, a monster in the room with you all the time, the boogeyman. And so I really just gave myself the grace and space that I needed, you know, and for me, that really changed my life because now, you know, if I'm going through something, not. Not as traumatic as the hunt, hopefully not again, but realizing that giving myself, like, the mental space that I need or the physical space that I need, it doesn't make me a weak clear by any means. It just means, like, I need to take a moment, collect my thoughts, be there for myself mentally, physically, and so I can show up to be, like, a good leader when I go into work. And I can just say, like, you know what? I had my moment where maybe I was crying in the car or whatever, but I had. I let myself have a moment. I'm going into work, I'm going to show up for my team, and then if I need some more time later to process, I will. But I think that a lot of people, you know, they go through these traumas, and then they have a team counting on them. Not everyone. I don't know how I was able to do that, truly. But I feel for the entrepreneurs that, you know, they have everything on their shoulders and they go through something like that. Maybe I was extremely resilient in that moment, and it really helped me become the person I am now. But not everyone has that luxury, you know, not everyone has that resilience. And I'm. I'm like, constantly thinking, like, what advice could I give to someone in that position? Whether it's like a friend or it's a loved one, it's like going through that type of trauma, I guess. What would be your advice to someone? I think that's more common thing than people think.

[Heidi Summers]

I actually think that your business is a reason for you to wake up the Next day. And I think a lot of people go through something traumatic. They lose somebody that they love or they. They're going through a really hard time. And I actually think what gets people through a hard time is responsibility. Because if nobody is relying on you, like, if you have kids, that's responsibility. If you have a business, that's responsibility. If you have friends counting on you, if you have a community that looks up to you, you feel a sense of duty to rise to the occasion. And so I actually think shying away from it when you're going through a really hard time, even though you want to with every bone in your body.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I actually think it makes. Makes it worse.

[Heidi Summers]

I think it's. I think it's taking the time, but then not letting it derail your whole life.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay. I think that's. Yeah, that's a. Definitely a. A beautiful way to put it. Yes. I'm still learning how to express my wounds. Right.

[Heidi Summers]

So, no, I'm.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Well, whenever I would talk about it, I would just say, you know, I just give myself price and space is the way that I would.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Explain it. But when I talked about it in a YouTube video, a lot of people, like, I'm going through trauma. Like, how did. How do I get through that? I'm like, man, like, I just gave myself grace and space to feel those moments. But I agree with you where I think that I. If I would have just drawn myself in work, it would have taken me years to go through what I did. Whereas, you know, it's like I let myself feel it in that moment because I feel like I had to. Otherwise, it's just. It's always in your closet, and it's like, you're eventually going to have to face it. So you can face it now or you can face it later.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And it doesn't make it easier to face it now or later. It's just. And I also do think that work really helps. You know, it got my mind off things for a while, and then I would. And then I would go back.

[Heidi Summers]

There's been a lot of studies on people who get over grieving the fastest and who have the most productive lives after going through something traumatic. And it's the people who don't change their daily life the most. So I found that very interesting because they don't change their daily life the most, but they also don't suppress their emotions. So there's two things. Right.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

And so I think what you said is actually the recipe for it, which is we acknowledge what happened. We Give ourselves time to acknowledge the feelings that we have, and then we stick with the commitments that we've made. And, you know, it's kind of like, if you want someone to live longer, give them a plant. Seriously, you look at old people who stay alive. If you want somebody to live longer and get through something, a plant even can keep somebody alive for years. I mean, a pet is, like, light years ahead of that, and then kids in a family is even further than that. And so I think it's like, purpose. Yeah, you need purpose. And I think. No, I think that's really powerful. And it really. You know, it's interesting because I think whether it's trauma, something traumatic people are going through, or just going through a hard freaking time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

I think that's a message everyone needs to hear, which is like, you have to take care of yourself and you have to give yourself that space. Because I think, like, you're saying that's what I tell people on my team is like, you have to show up for everybody.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

And if you are down, then everybody in your company's down.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Heidi Summers]

So if you need five minutes to just cry in the corner, or if you need an hour to get a workout, take a walk, listen to a podcast, like, how you show up to your team is going to have more of an impact than that meeting you could have taken during that time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Heidi Summers]

So I think you're telling the people the right things. I think it's just. I mean, it goes against a lot of traditional advice of taking all this time for something. Um, you know, it's actually interesting. Me and Alex talked about a lot, which, like, what would we do if you die?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right.

[Heidi Summers]

What would we do if you died then? And, you know, we both have said, like, I. I would try my best to keep moving things along, like, keep my life, because neither of us want the other person to be suffering afterwards. Right. And so I have a friend. The behavioral psychology always is, like, when something really bad happens and I'm feeling really bad, whatever. He always is like, great job sticking to the plan. Great job showing up. Better than laying on the couch.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

Better than indulging. Better than ruminating. Because what is it that we do in that time? It's not like we're just, like, feeling your emotions is one thing, but ruminating on the loss, ruminating on the emotion. I think that sometimes we allow ourselves to spiral and we call it feeling, but it's actually, it's going deep into a place we don't even need to go. So for me, it's like, it's been learning the boundaries with my feelings of. I'm. I want to feel my feelings, but I don't want to spiral. I don't want to ruminate, and I don't want them to allow and dictate the direction of my life. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Powerful.

[Heidi Summers]

I think that was a great last piece of advice you had. That one went deeper than I expected.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you. That was really good. I'm always just curious just how people navigate through those things and. And, you know, when people ask me, I'm. I'm just very transparent. I don't like to give some motivational quote, but I'm always curious. Like, during that time, I was, like, looking online. I was like, how am I supposed to get through this? Am I supposed to take time off? Cause I don't have time to take things off. You know, when people are like, oh, I. You know, I'm mourning the loss of a loved one, I think. I guess as someone that did it, scrappy too, it's like, I can't afford to take time off. And so I always feel for people when they. They're in those positions. It's like, what is the right thing to do? But I love what I did because I still like, you know, honored this best friend that I had. And, you know, it's like, I still. I went through those emotions in the morning and in the evenings, but then a part of me is like, should I feel guilty for going to work? I was like, you know, you have people that are counting on you. And I think it actually helped me is having purpose, having meaning, and then also not hiding away from, like, the hurt that I was feeling in those. Those moments. It's like, you just gotta feel it. But I'm always just kind of curious on other people. So have you gone through trauma before? And how did you navigate through that with all the things that you're juggling?

[Heidi Summers]

I think a couple different times in my life, I tend to like to understand things. So whenever I go through anything, like a hard time or something that someone might call traumatic, I want to understand and study what's going on with my own psychology. So, like, I find myself, like, for me, I love, like, diving into psychology books, behavioral science, studying all those things to understand why that event created these feelings and what I did to make them better or worse. Um, and I actually find the most amount of comfort when I'm in those moments and feeling my lowest in researching those things. I think it's probably an illusion of Control. But it also is a great way to not overindulge the emotions. So, like, I feel them, I'm upset. But then I'm like, I want to understand why does. Why does. Why am I built like this? Why does this occur? And can I do something to help myself manage it better? And that always has been very empowering for me. So I. That's why I love studying psychology and studying behavior science is because I think it's helped me so much. Probably also, I've had some bad experiences with other people trying to help me, so I probably have some trust issues there just being real.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, that's right, you were. There was someone that tried diagnosing you as all these. These things. Right.

[Heidi Summers]

Had that happen a few times. Yeah. And I'm like, sure. But even if so true, I like, I like the outcome of my brain and biology. I just want to understand how to manage it best.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

So for me, it's like not labeling things as problems, I think has been very helpful as well. And I think, you know, probably to the next degree is like defining trauma. And resilience has been very helpful for me, which is we get to define trauma by. Trauma is something that changes your behavior permanently. Something happens to you and it doesn't permanently change your behavior. Is it traumatic? And so then I think of what's resilience? Resilience is how quickly we can get back to our emotional baseline. And so I think I always think about, okay, if something bad happens, I immediately want to change my behavior because I'm scared, angry, sad, whatever it might be, right? And then I think, I literally, this is always what goes through my mind. Do nothing. Do nothing. Don't change anything. Don't change anything. Keep living your life. Keep doing something. And that's often the hardest thing to do, is to do nothing or to keep doing everything the exact same way. And if. If I veer off and I fuck something up for a second, you know, if I indulge in my emotions or I, you know, don't stick to the plan or something, then I just. Then I go to resilience, which is, how do I get back to baseline? Like, it's not about if I'm gonna get back. It's just like resilience is how quickly you do. So if you look at somebody who loses their job, somebody who's really resilient would get back on the market the next day, be like, you know what? I'm gonna find a better one. And they're back job searching the next day. Someone who's not resilient, they lose their job. Weeks and weeks of sulking, laying on the couch, indulging, they become overweight, they don't go to the gym, they're six months later, they start looking for a job, they're less resilient. So I think that defining those terms has helped me a lot in understanding if I've ever allowed anything in my life to traumatize me. Because I guess I speak of it like that. Like if I've allowed it to, it means that I've allowed it to change my behavior indefinitely. And which also means that I have control over reversing that. So if I now identify that this event eight years ago changed my behavior, I can do something about that today. I don't even know need to know why it changed my. I just did it just, I changed my behavior. But I can do something about that today so that every day there forward, it doesn't have power over me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

And I think that's really what I, I tried to focus on is just not allowing those things to have power over me. But the thing is we're all human, right? So it's like those things do happen. And that's why I think resilience is so key. It's just like once you recognize that, you catch it. Okay, I've been doing this, I've been avoiding this thing. I changed this. How I've done this because I was scared then. It's just, okay, what do I do differently now? You know what I mean? I think that happens in the macro of like big things happen. Like, I definitely had things that happened with my mother when I was a kid. But then I've also had things happen. Like, you know, even a year and a half, two years ago, someone tried to attack me when I was getting in the car. And then I realized, like, I didn't even go to the gym anymore because I didn't want to see that. And then what did I do? Okay, you know what? You avoid that gym in that parking lot at this time because you think someone's going to attack you again. Guess what you're going to do. Go to the gym at that parking lot in that time. Because I want it to have power over me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah. It's got to like face it head on.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah, exactly. And that it's not something I recommend or, or tell anyone else to do, but that's just what I've done for myself.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. So that's definitely a good point.

[Heidi Summers]

What do you think it is that got you through that time, aside from the feeling your emotions getting through it, did you have support?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I did. I think that, you know, the, the best thing that people always say is, you know, you go to a therapist. I didn't, I, I went to the other version of therapy, which is friends. And I think that I had a great group of girls and you know, we would choose chat about every day and we would just, you know, I think focus. I guess for me, I always see the silver lining of things. Right.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Now what happened, I think that was the first time I was like, there's no silver lining here. But what my friends and I did is we like constantly would share photos just for a little while, not forever, but it's like, hey, like, remember this funny memory? This was so funny. And like, oh, like I love this photo. Or like, look what I found. And I think finding ways to find joy of the memories really helped as well. Not just. I think for me the worst thing I could have done is just lay in bed and just think all day long. I mean, I can't imagine doing that. I think, you know, work was great to focus my mind on something else, but the friends that I had were wonderful and you know, we weren't obsessing over what happened and all the details. It's just like, let's share some good ass memories we had with someone amazing in our lives. And I think that was the time when I just thought of the term like, you know, grace and space. Give myself grace, give myself space so then I can go into my team and just give them my best self. And they were also amazing during that time. They kind of knew some stuff that was going on and they would just kind of give me space. You know, I'm like, don't bring it up. Please don't talk about it at work. I don't want to. This is not the space. I will have grace and space somewhere else, but not at work.

[Heidi Summers]

That's really good. Well, I hope for anyone listening, taking the time to feel your emotion, but then sticking with the commitments that you have and then hopefully finding support, I feel like those three things are like a recipe for getting through a hard time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes, definitely. And I mean there might be someone that needs like, they might need time to just like lay in bed, but for me, just, I can't imagine doing that. I think that would have been the worst possible thing for me to do.

[Heidi Summers]

Um, yeah, I'll just spiral.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. I just, just laying in bed thinking about all day, I was like, oh no. I think sticking to you know, showing up for my team and processing the emotions and. And what you said, it's like you have to tackle it like right then and there. But yeah, it's something that a lot of entrepreneurs don't talk about. Have you noticed that? It's like whenever they go through these big life things that are so hard, I guess, for small business owners. I was a small business owner at the time.

[Heidi Summers]

No, I think people in general, don't they?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I. I would say, yeah, I guess in general. And so I think for me back then, I wish someone would have spoken up about it.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So I could have known sort of what to do. I think I did the best thing I did in that position.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But I just remember I was like, no one ever talks about what. What the right thing to do is in those positions.

[Heidi Summers]

I think a lot of people don't want to think about the stuff that sucks. They don't want to think about the stuff that sucks. They don't want to think about the hard stuff. You know, that's part of why I actually liked making business content in the first place. I like talking about like all the stuff I failed at because feels like in so many areas of life, especially like the bigger and bigger social media becomes all stuff. It's like everyone wants it to be this facade of like, everything's perfect and it's not. And I'm like, you know, I see people who run companies as big as yours, as big as mine, and they're like, it's amazing. And there's never. And I'm like, shut the fuck up. I'm like, dude, I like literally fucking. You're just fucking selling bullshit.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

Just pisses me off. If you think that you can get. And if you think that you get to the top with no pressure, with no bad days, with not wanting to rip your hair out sometimes, with not feeling depressed or sad, like, good luck. You know what I mean? And I just think it sets such a bad. But I think it's almost like it comes from culture, which is like, I think in culture and maybe like for even like our generation, like there was this like, you just grit through it and like, you don't talk about it and like all these things and then became the like perfectionism facade of like, everything is beautiful and amazing. When Instagram comes out on Facebook and. And then it's just like. I think people just feel weird. And then you see some people who do it and it's just not well done. It's like they're just sobbing on their video.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Heidi Summers]

Right. And so it's like, you're like, I don't want to be that person who's, like, sobbing on camera to everybody. And so at least that's what I thought before is like, gosh, how do I. How am I transparent? Vulnerable. The things I'm going through without being overly. You know what I mean? I think we all go through. I mean, honestly, like, if I'm. If I'm being real, like, this last month for me has been probably the hardest month of my business in, like, three years. And it's been. And then I struggle with, like, how do I, you know, record? I make my podcasts and I say, like, oh, it's. It's been a hard month. You know? But you're like, how much do you share? Because at the same time, you know, same with my team, like, how much do I share? It's always. You're just trying to find the line of, like, sharing enough so that people don't think it's about them. Like, it's. You're not the reason I'm upset. Um, and sharing enough so that people can take the lessons that you're learning in real time. Sharing enough so people don't feel alone sharing. But not sharing so much that people feel like you are emotionally dumping on them. You know what I mean? Because I think that's the line that leaders, especially can't cross, which is, like, your team, your audience, like, they're not a place for you to just, like, dump your emotions on. Right. And I say that as somebody who's been emotionally dumped on and didn't like it, you know, like, involuntarily, but I feel like that's kind of, like, penetrated through the culture. I don't know. I think a lot of people are being better about it now, but I still think people that are, like, at, like, doing nine figures in their business and beyond, I mean, how many people are actually sharing, like, what it's like to go through? And I think maybe part of that's because there's such a stigma with, like, what do you have to complain about? You know what I mean? And you're like, actually, it gets a lot harder. It's so much harder than you think it is. Yeah. So, yeah, I think you speaking and doing more of that and learning and being able to get that message out there, that's really important. It's not. A lot of people want to do that. They just want people to clap for them.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Heidi Summers]

Give them their likes, post the highlight reels.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Only.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And that's why I love you and Alex. I feel like Yalls podcast. I know we talked about this earlier, but I never listened to other podcasts, you know? You know, people are like, oh, what mentor? What person did you listen to in the first, like, couple years? Like, nobody. Because I would try to listen, and these people are just blurting out, like, oh, this is. You know, I just fly on a private jet everywhere. And these are my motivational quotes. And I was like, I am getting nothing out of this. I can't relate to this. I'm bored. I just feel like it's like a bunch of bullshit. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm not. I don't need to read books. I don't need to mentor nothing. Now. Two years ago, one of my friends was like, you should check out Alex. He does fitness, as he. As we call it, Fitness business stuff. Would love it. So I started listening to him. Loved, loved the podcast on Spotify. Would do it in the morning when I'm doing my makeup. My husband would come and be like, is that Alex? Like, yeah. He's like, every morning.

[Heidi Summers]

Every morning.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And so loved. Loved his show. And so I told my friend. I was like, he's great. I'm actually listening to him consistently because he doesn't bullshit. He just speaks his mind. He's not afraid. He fumbles on his words. He cusses. I like him.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And then he goes, you check out his wife. And I was like, wow, he has a wife? And so then I. Then I look you up, then I start listening to your show. And I was like, she's amazing. And I think both of you were so needed in the industry because there are a lot of motivational speakers. And I went to an event one time, and I just felt like a lot of the speakers on stage, I just didn't feel anything from them. It's just a bunch of what you said. It's just like a bunch of facades and bullshit. I hate to say.

[Heidi Summers]

Say, yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Then you find certain people that you listen and you just, like, connect. You get it. You feel something.

[Heidi Summers]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And that's what I liked about you and Alex is you're, like, talking about the real. And that's what I loved.

[Heidi Summers]

Thank you. Appreciate. I've loved having you on. This has been fun. I don't even know what we talked about, but all sorts of things. I hope we went all over the map with.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah, we did. It was fun.