How to Lead with Clarity When You Don’t Have a Big Vision | Ep 271

Summary

Podcast Summary: Build with Leila Hormozi – "How to Lead with Clarity When You Don’t Have a Big Vision | Ep 271"

Host: Leila Hormozi
Release Date: May 9, 2025
Episode: How to Lead with Clarity When You Don’t Have a Big Vision | Ep 271
Description: In this episode, Leila Hormozi delves deep into the nuances of leading a business without a grandiose vision. Through real-world examples and listener interactions, Leila provides actionable insights on maintaining clarity, fostering a strong company culture, and driving business growth even in the absence of a sweeping long-term vision.

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Introduction

Leila opens the episode by addressing the common misconception that a large, visionary goal is a prerequisite for successful leadership. She emphasizes that while having a big vision can be advantageous, it is not mandatory. Instead, clarity in leadership, strategic execution, and fostering the right company culture can drive substantial business growth.

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Listener Q&A: Navigating Leadership Without a Big Vision

The core of the episode revolves around listener questions, each presenting unique challenges in leadership and business growth without a defined grand vision. Leila, alongside co-host Alex, provides tailored advice to each query.

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1. Owen’s Forest Recovery Business Struggle

Timestamp: [00:02] - [07:28]

Challenge:
Owen, a third-generation forester, struggles with defining a clear vision for his business despite having robust operational skills. He feels constrained by his lack of a visionary outlook, leading to bottlenecks in scaling his business beyond $14 million.

Key Insights:

• Vision vs. Strategy: Leila and Alex discuss the balance between having a visionary outlook and executing operational strategies. Alex highlights that being both a visionary and an operator is not mutually exclusive but often intertwined.

• Creating Space for Vision: Alex emphasizes the importance of carving out time and space for strategic planning. “I think that in order to be a visionary, you need space.” [04:30]

• Tangible Goals: Instead of abstract visions, setting concrete, actionable goals can provide direction. Owen’s desire for future generations to have forests is a compelling, measurable vision. “I want our kids to have forests.” [07:54]

Conclusion:
Owen is encouraged to embrace his passion as his vision and integrate it with strategic goals. By defining clear, achievable objectives, he can align his team and overcome the constraints caused by the absence of a grand vision.

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2. Kate’s High-End Health Food Store Leadership

Timestamp: [11:44] - [22:22]

Challenge:
Kate runs a high-end health food store aiming to scale from $2.8 million to $5 million in two years. She seeks strategies to inspire and motivate her staff to adopt an ownership mentality, ensuring exceptional customer experiences consistently.

Key Insights:

• Behavioral Rewards: Leila and Alex stress the importance of rewarding behaviors that align with company values. “People do what they're rewarded for.” [12:24]

• Praise and Status Over Money: Alex notes, “I have witnessed that nothing motivates people more than praise and status. I do not think money does for most people.” [13:42]

• Structured Titles and Progression: Introducing tiered titles (junior, mid-level, senior) can enhance status and motivation. “They can move their way up the ladder there.” [14:17]

• Consistent Training and Feedback: Regular training sessions and feedback mechanisms foster a culture of continuous improvement and ownership. “If you want them to take ownership, then treat them like their owners.” [16:05]

Conclusion:
Kate is advised to implement structured recognition systems and develop clear career progression paths. Additionally, fostering open communication and providing consistent training will empower her team to embody an ownership mindset, driving the store’s growth.

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3. Israel’s Personal Brand and Limiting Beliefs

Timestamp: [24:13] - [43:53]

Challenge:
Israel, a sales coach for B2B salespeople in Latin America, grapples with self-imposed limiting beliefs that hinder the growth of his personal brand. Despite achieving significant milestones, he fears negative perceptions and doubts his authenticity online.

Key Insights:

• Authenticity vs. Fear: Alex shares his journey of overcoming fears related to content creation, highlighting the importance of presenting an authentic self. “If you remain true to yourself, you get more upside.” [35:09]

• Balance Upside and Downside: Understanding that every success comes with its challenges helps in managing expectations. “Happiness and success are not the same thing.” [41:45]

• Exposure and Growth: Continuously putting oneself out there, despite fears, can lead to accelerated growth and deeper brand resonance. “When you don’t buffer yourself, you get the same downside but higher upside.” [40:00]

Conclusion:
Israel is encouraged to embrace his authentic self in his branding efforts. By overcoming limiting beliefs and accepting that backlash is part of growth, he can build a more substantial and genuine personal brand, attracting a larger community of engaged salespeople.

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4. Jerry’s Math Tutoring Business Leadership

Timestamp: [43:53] - [50:35]

Challenge:
Jerry operates a math tutoring business aiming to scale revenue from $815k to over $5 million. His primary obstacle is ineffective team leadership, particularly in training and nurturing his staff.

Key Insights:

• Shadowing and Hands-On Training: Leila and Alex recommend on-the-job training through shadowing to build team competence. “I did 100% of it through shadowing.” [46:34]

• Investing in Leadership Development: Focusing on developing leaders within the team can multiply the training effect. “The job of a leader is to create more leaders.” [47:20]

• Regular Training Sessions: Instituting bi-weekly training sessions tailored to current team needs fosters a strong culture and continuous improvement. “Every two weeks you put together a session and then they get to ask questions after.” [48:24]

Conclusion:
Jerry should adopt a hands-on training approach initially, progressively developing his team’s leadership capabilities. Regular, tailored training sessions will nurture a culture of excellence and empower his team to drive the business towards its ambitious revenue goals.

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5. Vanessa’s Nutrition Coaching Scaling Challenges

Timestamp: [50:35] - [71:45]

Challenge:
Vanessa runs a nutrition coaching business generating $250,000 and aims to scale to $1 million. Her main hurdle is being the sole operator, limiting her capacity to grow.

Key Insights:

• Hiring Setters and Coaches: Leila advises Vanessa to outsource roles that handle client interactions, such as setters and additional coaches, to free up her time for strategic growth. “The first place that you have leverage is to hire setters.” [66:32]

• Tiered Compensation Structures: Implementing a tiered compensation system based on experience can attract quality coaches while maintaining fairness. “I would say I would see who you can bring on. Find somebody hopefully that's more of like a little more autonomous.” [68:28]

• Phased Client Transition: Gradually transitioning clients to new coaches can minimize attrition and ensure a smooth scale-up process. “Transition your clients over. You don't do it all at once.” [57:35]

• Content Delegation: Delegating content creation allows Vanessa to focus on coaching and scaling operations. “You just can't like fear. Stop it. Because anything we do that's controlled by fear, it just robs up our own self-confidence.” [42:30]

Conclusion:
Vanessa is encouraged to delegate client-facing roles and adopt a phased approach to scaling her coaching business. By hiring experienced setters and coaches, implementing fair compensation structures, and delegating content creation, she can effectively manage her time and drive her business towards the $1 million mark.

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6. Jason’s Property Management Business Growth

Timestamp: [71:45] - [84:00]

Challenge:
Jason oversees two companies, focusing on property management and residential real estate. He aims to grow his property management business from $3 million to $30 million in five years but feels constrained by his time spent on sales activities.

Key Insights:

• Delegation and Role Allocation: Leila suggests Jason delegate high-impact tasks, such as hiring dedicated sales personnel, to reclaim his time for strategic growth. “If you're not going to be able to bring somebody on, you're going to have to pay in time, which is training someone.” [57:27]

• Phased Scaling: Implementing a step-by-step scaling strategy can prevent burnout and maintain business stability. “I think the first thing would be get out of operating.” [28:31]

• Maintaining Team Contact: Ensuring that the existing sales team remains motivated and engaged is crucial during scaling. “You have to put effort into the leaders.” [44:27]

• High-Ticket Sales Focus: Concentrating on high-ticket sales can optimize revenue without overextending resources. “Choose a price point and just only work stuff... high ticket sales only.” [65:43]

Conclusion:
Jason is advised to strategically delegate his sales responsibilities and focus on hiring competent sales executives to drive his property management business forward. By adopting a phased scaling approach and maintaining strong team dynamics, he can achieve his ambitious growth targets without compromising on quality or personal well-being.

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General Insights and Conclusions

1. Clarity Over Vision: While a grand vision can inspire a team, clarity in operations and strategic execution often holds more immediate importance. Leaders can effectively scale businesses by maintaining clear, actionable goals even without a sweeping long-term vision.

2. Empowerment Through Delegation: Delegating critical roles such as sales, coaching, and operational management empowers leaders to focus on scaling and strategic growth, reducing bottlenecks caused by over-reliance on a single individual.

3. Cultivating Company Culture: Building a strong, values-driven company culture fosters an environment where employees feel ownership and are motivated to contribute to the company’s success. Regular training, recognition, and clear career progression paths are essential components.

4. Authentic Branding: Embracing authenticity in personal and company branding can significantly enhance brand resonance and community engagement. Overcoming fear and self-imposed limitations allows for genuine connections and sustained growth.

5. Phased Scaling Strategies: Implementing phased approaches to scaling, such as gradual delegation and step-by-step growth plans, ensures business stability and prevents operational overload.

6. Balanced Reward Systems: Shifting focus from monetary rewards to praise and status can enhance employee motivation and align their efforts with company values, leading to higher discretionary effort and better performance.

Notable Quotes:

• Alex on Vision: “I think that anybody can think of a vision if you give yourself the space to do so.” [08:33]

• Alex on Motivation: “Nothing motivates people more than praise and status. I do not think money does for most people.” [13:42]

• Alex on Authenticity: “If you remain true to yourself, you get more upside in the same round.” [36:55]

• Alex on Leadership: “The job of a leader is to create more leaders.” [47:20]

• Jason on Delegation: “I need to, how am I going to feel knowing yourself. Right. I would say that short term, if you do not get anybody to come in and do those sales, I think it'll be tough from an emotional standpoint.” [61:18]

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Final Takeaway

Leading without a big vision is not only feasible but can be highly effective with the right strategies in place. By prioritizing clarity, empowering teams through delegation, nurturing a strong company culture, and embracing authenticity, leaders can drive substantial business growth and create resilient, scalable organizations.

Leila Hormozi encourages leaders to focus on what they can control, foster environments where their teams feel ownership, and continuously adapt their strategies to navigate the complexities of scaling without a grand vision.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Alex]

It's just like showing people the why behind why you do it. What's the impact? Because what people want to know is like, when I'm working my fucking ass off on a daily basis, what am I working toward? And people want to know that they're progressing. But if they don't know what the future is supposed to look like, they don't know what they've progressed towards. And that's why I say you can run a company without it. It's just easier to have it because money is empty.

[Owen]

My name's Owen, so I'm a contractor that specializes in forest recovery. Were you about 14 million last year? I was sitting, I cornered Tim and we're kind of shooting the breeze, and he clandestinely handed me this card, says number one. He's like, this is something for Layla. So I didn't know that meant I'm in front of 100 or so people. I'm a forester. I like to be out in the woods.

[Alex]

Such a guy.

[Owen]

Anywhere else, I haven't even really got the right words. But so I'm third generation forester. And so if you would zoom back to the second grade, I'm doing what I basically was doing there in my notes. I mean, I'm doing what I've always wanted to do. We got to the point now where I'm wondering if I'm the visionary or not. And I'm asking because all the positions that we are needing are all positions I can do. But so like data and sales and all that. But we don't really have a vision. And I've been trying. I've been wrestling with this since like 2019. Like, I've got notes about what's our mission statement. And, you know, I talk to people like, where I done your values. And so I've got more notes about what are my values. And I've been wrestling with this, like I said, off and on, to the point where if I was my own employee, I'd have axed myself by now.

[Alex]

I. I'll ask you this, which is, what problem do you think this is creating in the business?

[Owen]

One of my major strengths is to be able to lock in the deals. And that requires being on site face to face.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Owen]

So I could find someone to do that for me because I'm having a hard time prioritizing who's next on more of the management. We've got the labor side now. I'm like, I know how to hire, I know how to train, I know how to do the tree planting stuff. But the data stuff, I mean, we still run. I've got a bunch of notes out in the truck. That's where most of my business is. So finding someone to do that or to handle marketing. If we go to 20 million, I'm just on the constraint. And I'm also the reason we want to go to 20 million. And so I'm trying to come up with solutions for bringing on people that think like I do or. But anyways, that's the constraint, so I'm not quite sure what it solves. I just know that it would be nice to know when people ask.

[Alex]

So I'll say a couple things, which is like, I think we use labels to make it easy for people to understand things. So, like, people see me and Alex, for example, and they think, operator, visionary. That's actually, like, not really the case at all. Like, we overlap a lot. It's just not in front of people and it's not what we gear our content towards. And so I'll say, like, one. Like, I actually would consider myself both a visionary and an operator. Like, I think I. I do both because I have a vision for where I want the company to go, and I know how to execute to get there, to fulfill the vision. I think the question is, like, what do you consider vision to be? And, like, how far out are you thinking? Because I think some people, I would say, like, there are people who are missionaries. Like, they're like, I like Elon Musk, like, get to Mars or who, you know, whoever you want to say, like, if you don't like him, pick somebody else. But, like, they have something really big that they're going towards. I think it's very admirable. I also think that if you look at a lot of those people, they've had to do a lot of work to get to a point where they have the skill to find something that they are that excited about and know how to get there. And so, like, if I look at, you know, the first two companies that we had, I don't really think we had, like, a big, exciting vision. Um, I think that in order. Like, I think that if I think anybody in here, in my opinion, could be a visionary. Why? Because I think that in order to be a visionary, you need space. The only reason, like, if I would consider, like, why am I a better operator than visionary? I don't have space. Look at my fucking calendar. 13 calls a day. Like, I don't have space to. To be vision. It's like, okay, after 13 calls and we're like, what's the vision? I'm like, I don't want to go to fucking bed and eat a fucking sandwich. You know what I mean? Like, it's like. And so what I learned when we sold our last company was that I actually have a really big vision, but I never had time or space to think about it. And I was so in the weeds of tactical things, understanding how to execute and how to get things done to reach the goals we have, that I just didn't have the space to do it. And so the first thing I'd say is like, I think that anybody can think of a vision if you give yourself the space to do so. Which is why I think having time and space to do quarterly planning and things like that is important as well as like annual retreats. The second thing to that is like, do you just. If you're somebody who's apathetic about many things, like, in general, you're just like, I don't have anything that. That feels that exciting to me. Like, that's just some people, like, there's just like, not like that just is what it is. At the same time, if you're like, how's that going to prevent my company from growing? Well, a vision without a strategy doesn't really matter. Like, there's a lot of people that have vision, but they have no strategy as to how to get there. So it's like kind of irrelevant. And so I might say like a next step instead of like, can I figure out? The vision is like, well, do you have a strategy to reach the milestones that you want to reach? I would say that if you have people within your company that have emulate values that you admire and have ideas about the company, admire the company greatly, those are people that you could pull things from. But I'm just going to be honest. As much as like, I would like every company to have the big visions. I will see companies thousands every month and like, most don't, and many are very successful despite that. I just think that it's much easier to build a really big company and to get really great people to work for you if you have a vision. I also think it's easier to get out of bed in the morning, but I engineered that from day one with acquisition.com in my last companies. Kind of like, you just kind of fell into like, I've been doing fitness for forever. It's just kind of like, this is what you do. I'm just going to go and do this. And it's kind of like Just good at, like, just really good at it. That's all. Like, it wasn't like I was like, oh, my God, I want to help all these. It's like, I want to help. Yes. I want revenue to be what I call quality revenue, which is like, it feels good to make that money because I know I've really helped people, but I didn't was like, what's this look like in 20 years? I'm like, I don't know. And so when I got the space degree acquisition dot com, I was like, well, I would like to think what do I. Like, what are my strengths? Well, something that would excite me was something that, like, when I have really hard days, I still would feel excited to do it, no matter what's happening in my life. But you just kind of came into this business, so it makes sense that this might not be the thing that you have this big mission for. But, like, the way I see is, like, if you don't have a big vision for it, can this be a business that you get to a certain revenue level, a certain point, and then maybe you do build one that you have a really big mission behind, or maybe you don't, because it doesn't matter. Like, at the end of the day, like, you can win either way. It's just like, how do you want to feel? What kind of people do you want to attract and what kind of business you want to build? So it's not a requirement.

[Owen]

I would agree, actually, if you just said, no, you're not the visionary. I said, well, screw this, and I'm out. Because I don't know else would be, but I mean, we make a large impact, I guess. I've got boys and I'd like them to have forests. And so that's kind of what drives me. But what the fuck? But I also really. I don't know how to.

[Alex]

What that right there is great or.

[Owen]

Right there is great?

[Alex]

I want our kids to have forests. Like, that could be your fricking line right there. I want future generations to have forests.

[Vivian]

So.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Owen]

All right. So are we all in farner out and tits the world here? How we're doing?

[Alex]

I. You said it right there. I think it's great. Like, that was compelling.

[Owen]

So what is that? What do I. As far as applying that, what do I do next? So, okay, I've got a vision kind of. I mean, that makes sense in my mind, but then what?

[Alex]

Okay, so when you say, what's the vision? It says, what do you want the future to look like? That's what it's really asking. So you have to ask yourself, what do I want the future to look like? I usually break it down to three years out. So three years from now, what do I want the future to look like? Now? You can't go beyond that. Say, you know, generations from now, like that could be. You get anchored to that. But then when you describe what you want the future cities of business to look like, I find it difficult to go past three years because so much changes in the landscape with me, the economy, technology, et cetera. But that's really what you're asking. Then you think of what does it look like qualitatively and what does it look like quantitatively? So, like, in order to achieve that vision, what would our team look like? What would our product look like? What would our environment look like? What would our building look like? What would I be doing? Right? And those are questions you ask. You really think about every department. What would it look like? Like, what would it feel like when I walked in there? Right? And then you ask yourself, okay, well, what metrics would the company have to hit to have that impact and to be able to reach that? And those are. That's honestly what I do. And then I use comparisons. So if you're saying like, our vision is blank, it's like, all right, you know, one I use at acquisition is like, my vision is to be the Ritz Carlton of Blink. So it's like I'm using a comparison from a different industry to show people what I would like to be for the industry that we're in. And so you can pick one that can be, I don't even know what I'm used forest at this point, but it could be from something that grows from the ground. And you could say, I want to be the blank of blank, right? And then things like that give people something tangible to hold onto. And like, here's the thing, when you're talking about, like the big vision that you have, it doesn't have to be this like 50 page slide deck or something. It can be like, I don't know, 10, 15 slides. It's just like showing people that, like the why behind why you do it, what's the impact? Because what people want to know is like, when I'm working my fucking ass off on a daily basis, what am I working toward? And people want to know that they're progressing, but if they don't know what the future is supposed to look like, they don't know what they've progressed towards. And that's why I say you can run a company without it. It's just easier to have it because money is empty. And so it's like, you know, if you attract people who only want to work there with the money, I mean, I've had that. I hate it. It's just awful. And so if you attract people who like want to build forests for future generations, you're going to unlock a lot more discretionary effort and you can have a tangible way to measure it. I mean, think about it like, you know, could be like how many. You could just have like a tally of like how many trees we've planted or saved and like all these things and they just have it on a board. It's like basically like how many we've got this month or quarter or whatever. And then like what's our bulk? And like you just keep that top line for the team. Like you don't have to just because your head's not like in the sky. I think a vision like, well, that's not even fuck a job. I would say it's just like if you, if you talk to people who are the best visionaries, they're also like very much into the product and the business. In fact, I think sometimes the best visionaries are the ones who understand the business the best. And I think that's a giant misconception by people. It's because labels do that.

[Israel]

Thank you.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Kate]

My name is Vivian. We are a high end health food store, brick and mortar and online and spell. We're tracking to do about 2.8 million in revenue this year and we like to be at 5 in 24 months. Ish. So we have strong culture and values. Our baseline expectation for staff is like an exceptional customer experience. Great. So we're wondering how you inspire and motivate staff at a retail setting to think and act like an owner day to day.

[Alex]

Well, people do what they're rewarded for. So I'll give you an example. If you reward a sales team solely by closes, then a lot of times they will do whatever they have to close the deal. They won't stick to the script, they won't remain ethical, they won't do all these things because what's rewarded the most is closing the deal and getting the sale. So what you have to think is how do I reward the behaviors that exemplify ownership? Now I will say this. I think that praise and status reward people more than money. I have witnessed that. I have done experiments within teams and I have seen it time and time again. Nothing motivates people more than praise and status. I do not think money does for most people. There's a few people for sure, but majority of people, 97 people. Status, praise. And so the question is, how do you work that into the system? Like is it that they get a T shirt and they exemplify a value? Is it that the metrics they're measured upon or how many times somebody gives them a compliment or puts a tip in a tip jar or you know what I'm saying? Like we have to, whatever we measure as success for that role is what they're going to continue doing more of. And so the question is like right now, what do you measure successful?

[Kate]

Yeah, well, it's hard because it's not like we can pressure sales or it's such a fast environment. So we do kind of try to monitor and get crazed on. We see really good interactions, try to call out staff and share really good customer experiences. So the praise part I think definitely works when we can catch it. When I'm on the shop floor and able to see it. Yeah. Status is a little trickier because although they are our most junior staff, they're arguably far more important than anyone else because they're the most friend facing.

[Alex]

Right. So status. Right. So let's think about how we could get them more status in their role. It's like what, what's their title called?

[Kate]

Well, I'm just kind of playing with that because it's not what you're thinking of a regular health food store. We, we do offer a lot more involved recommendations. So we do mostly hire practitioners like nutritionists, herbalists, things like that. So right now they're, they're just shelf war there and they don't really have a title. So trying to come up with a title that would represent, you know, the years of knowledge and study that they've put in to their different modalities which aren't always the most highly compensated because they're alternative.

[Alex]

Felt it? Yeah. Because I'm thinking like you've got junior, you've got mid level and you've got senior. Right, Right. It's like they can move their way up the ladder there. I do think that because you're saying that they're providing a lot of recommendations, there's ev things that you can put into place like a three question customer survey after somebody is checking on, they're like, hey. And they give it to them. They're like, if you could fill this out, put it in that, like that would help me out a lot. And Then you get to reward them for whatever that customer says about them. Little things like that go a really, really, really long way. Like, that one thing could do a law for it. I would say that the second piece is that if you feel like I would say, do they have a manager?

[Kate]

This me.

[Alex]

Oh, okay.

[Kate]

Yeah, yeah. But at this point, we're going to need someone who's, you know, more on the floor.

[Alex]

Like a.

[Kate]

Someone that's a manager that's also a shop.

[Alex]

One person. Yeah. The most important thing there is that it's kind of like with children. If. If you want them to take ownership, then treat them like their owners.

[Kate]

Right.

[Alex]

And so, like, they will do whatever you want them. Like, they will act. They will look to you to how they need to act and what's normal and what's not normal. And so if somebody comes to you, they're like, hey, what do I do here? And you're like, this your talk. What do you think you should do? Right? They're like, oh, wait, that's for me.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Alex]

And so it's something I was talking to my team about today because we had, like, a. Of company, Q and A. It's like, it has to come from both sides, which is like, you have to push it on them, and then they have to know that it's an expectation. And so, I mean, even if, like, right now you just, like, hold a call with them next week and you're like, I'm trying to figure out how to instill more of a sense of ownership in you guys. Like, what do you guys think? How could I do that? And how am I holding you back? Even just that right there, just, like, setting the expectation time that what you want to do, that would ignite a really productive conversation. You're probably going to get better ideas from them than you will. For me. Yeah.

[Kate]

We have amazing staff meetings. And, like, that culture piece is so strong. I just find, like, the execution of it at the Promises and the excitement, like, we hire, we go through our values, the onboarding. Like, there's. There's tiers, there's. This is so aligned. I just, like, can't wait to start working here. And then it's just that one piece of the execution when I'm not watching.

[Alex]

Oh, well. Intentional.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Alex]

No, for real, like, karter is what happens when you're not there.

[Kate]

Right, right.

[Alex]

Yeah. Thank you. So I would say this, which is like, I actually. The hair is on my back, which I don't have, but if I did. But if I add hair on my Mat it would stand up when somebody does that in an interview. Right? Because I'm telling you, like, the amount of times that somebody has bamboozled me on an interview, they just kiss my fucking ass. And they've been like, I just saw the mission of this. That I'm like, Then, like, it's like, now I'm like, disgusted by it because I'm like, fucking kissing my ass. You're a company here. You'll be a piece of shit. Okay? But it is often it's like somebody that acts that way at an interview that I've just seen the correlation with. Like, the better they show up there, the more they're, like, talking about that. It's usually they're compensating for the fact that that's not why they want the job. Right. So I think it's being cognizant also of the fact on the interview process, like, saying that you're about the culture is irrelevant. Saying that you have the values and that you like them is irrelevant. It's. Do they demonstrate it when you ask them to recall times that they have done those things in the past and you say, tell me the last hard conversation you had. And they can't think of anything. And you're like, great, so you're gonna come in here and have our conversation. I mean, hadling a fucking year. Right? You know what I mean? And so I think that makes sense to me. And I do think a lot of people that might be attracted to your type of business, unfortunately, are the kind of people who talk a lot and, you know, they just don't do shit.

[Kate]

Right.

[Alex]

So I think on the screening process, I would be one. They're coming in in person for an interview. Yep. Okay. I would go back through the interview questions when it comes to the culture piece, and I would apply the presentation from yesterday to see if you have room with those questions, because it feels like that might be where the Mrs. And you could take care of this if you took care of it on the front end. Right. Because if somebody acts differently behind your back, it's like, that's just.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And I don't know if it's acting differently or just like not connecting the values to customer experiences and, you know, customer experience to revenue. Like, they're not connecting that.

[Alex]

Can you tell me what they're doing?

[Kate]

It's just like, you know, not always going the extra mile or like, if customer comes in right before close for a, you know, a drink or a treat or something, you know, five minutes before we close, they're like, we're closed. Well, that's not, you know, the customer experience that we want to offer. If someone's made their, made the effort to come down at any point, you.

[Alex]

Know, we've dealt or die immediately.

[Kate]

If I catch it. Yeah.

[Alex]

And if you hear about it, what do you do?

[Kate]

I hear about it. Same. Yeah.

[Alex]

But yeah, he's saying like, you can't work here if you do that.

[Kate]

Not that far, but probably should.

[Alex]

Yeah. I mean this is a question which is like, I protect culture. I. I prioritize that over competence. Right. Sounds ridiculous, but I do because I think if some, if my team knows that somebody on the team is in my culture fit and they see the fact that they still remain on this team week after week, month after month, highly respect for my team. So the moment I see it, I'm like, I gotta let them know that's not aligned with our culture. And I have to make them aware. I'm like, hey, if you don't actually fuck with this and you do not want to do that genuinely, you want to close the door on that customer, that you should be here and there's nothing wrong with that. We can make a smooth transition. But like, I want you to understand that every time the customer comes, this is what I expect you do. Like it's a small businesses, isn't some big corporation. If they want to go work somewhere, you don't give a fuck about anybody, they can go work somewhere else. Like Myers.

[Kate]

Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. Thank you.

[Alex]

I hope. I don't know if that's helpful. Over.

[Vanessa]

My name is Vanessa and I am more of the VP of operations. The company CEO is not here, but what we do is we are almost like a very high end welcomes for. We sell the hospitals, we staff them with robotic surgeons. More specifically, our book of business started with urologists. We've expanded to general surgeons, interventional radiologists, urogynecologists, et cetera. We're a little different than locums because we give them. Either we're starting their practice basically from scratch, we're training their.

[Alex]

Or we, I don't know, loca. What?

[Vanessa]

Oh, locums. It's kind of like when a hospital needs a provider, a doctor to come in because they have a gap. Either they need someone to take.

[Alex]

You do that for them, we do.

[Vanessa]

That for them, but in a much bigger sense because we don't just fill a gap for a temporary period, we're usually filling a gap for a longer period and getting them to highly profitable margins.

[Alex]

For are you employing these people?

[Vanessa]

We have all the surgeons on our team, so we have 35 surgeons on our team. Got to be deployed them.

[Alex]

Okay, Interesting. Okay. Yeah, got it.

[Vanessa]

So we work with hospitals, like I said, and we kind of rotate throughout hospitals. So the main mission was we get these hospitals up and fully functional. Very profitable within about. I mean, these are big systems. Doctors, Providence Advice Health. We also work with standalone hospitals, so we go to rural locations as well, within California, and Oregon is where we work. We used to be in Arizona as well. So standalone hospitals might be our critical access hospital. So they only have like, 20 beds in the hospital. They're actually our most profitable hospitals to work at because we can negotiate much bigger deals with them. Yeah. So where we're at is it's been about four years, actually, that we've been doing business. Our revenue last year was 10.75 million. A profit of 3.35 million. That was a 46% increase from the year before. And the CEO, who happens to be my boyfriend is wanting to exit in next two to three years, mainly because it's very, very demanding on our lives and our relationship. And he has a couple of other businesses that are also very successful. So he wants to. His enterprise value is around 50 million. So I'm really the strategist who says this is what we need to do. My strategy has always been we have contracts. We have very stable contracts. We can make more money from those contracts by offering more service lines or surgical subspecialties. And some hospitals pay us on productivity. So I very focus in on that. And I use the. We don't have a leadership team, and he's a CEO who has all the hacks. And so we're really. At this point of. We only get new contracts if he has time to go get new contracts. So we're kind of split between.

[Alex]

So he wants to sell it because.

[Vanessa]

Mainly because it's. It's kind of just sucking up the light, you know, like, even if we go on vacation, we. We have zero vacation these days. It's. It's a constant phone calls from hospitals, phone calls about doctor, about patients, about this, that, and the other. So, you know, the phone's on 24 7. And that's why I think he wants to sell it. He wants to be in a business. He has other businesses that he doesn't have to work in so much. He's not the one working in them.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Vanessa]

So I said, we either we fix the problems and you end up loving the business, or we fix the problems, and you sell the business. Either way, I'm fine with it. So we're really. All this right now, we're really talking about, you know, do we need a CBO versus and. Or a sales senior executive to go get contracts for us to help expand the business. But a CEO could help him with the headaches of the hospital because he's not empowering anybody to take care of all these daily headaches we get from hospitals.

[Alex]

But you said VB of ops, so what was the COO to.

[Vanessa]

He just won't give me that power authority versus COO technically. You know, I've been kind of priming that for a couple of years now. But it's just. It's more of a he wants an outside person VCO to not take the power to work with the hospitals directly. So I don't know if it's just because we're in a relationship or, I mean, we're partners in the company. It's. You know, I'm not sure. Why should I be here? There's layers. It's an onion being peeled back.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Vanessa]

He also. I mean, I'm. I'm very a strategist. I'm not maybe the best leader of teams.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Vanessa]

To be honest, I have very high expectations and standards for everyone in our company.

[Alex]

And why is that?

[Vanessa]

Rubs people the wrong way.

[Alex]

Unless you're mean. It's not bad delivery.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Okay. So.

[Vanessa]

So I guess, like, our biggest constraint is we have a key man risk. That's one of our biggest risks in the company. Keyman risk. If he dies, the company absolutely would die.

[Alex]

And we, like. Let me ask you.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So if you guys sell this company, what happens next?

[Vanessa]

Well, like I said, he already has.

[Alex]

Some other companies, so does he still want to do anything? Like lay on a beach?

[Vanessa]

No, no. He has. So his other companies, he has basically almost like a VC firm to do vato device investments. So that is also very busy. And then he has almost like a subspecialty where. Almost like the same kind of business where. But he does have to. He's a surgeon, so he also physically goes and operates at these sites. I know. So he's building, like, another business where he doesn't have to go physically operate anymore. He doesn't want to operate anymore. He doesn't want to be a surgeon.

[Alex]

He's not a surgeon in your business.

[Vanessa]

He is.

[Alex]

Whoa, stop. Oh, he's one of the ones that goes to the hospitals.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Vanessa]

That's how we started. I started all by himself, like, going to the Hospital doing all the work.

[Alex]

Dude, surgeons are the worst. Why does this always happen?

[Vanessa]

I thought, okay, yeah, so we keep saying, you know, take on the admin role and just be an admin, but he can't physically step away from the Matson.

[Alex]

I think. Well, I guess there's the business case and then there's the you case, which is from business standpoint there's multiple roles that are needed. But like it's not about adding, it's. It's first sort of deciding where you're subtracting, which is like, what are you not going to do? He has to decide what is he not going to do first? Which is like, what's the thing that I get off my plate? Which is like the most obvious one is operating and being one of your own, like employing yourself. Like that's the most obvious thing, right? Yeah. You have 35. Why does he need to be one? That's the first thing. Like that makes no sense. He's get out of that, I hope. But again, he's not here. It sounds like beyond my scope. So like.

[Vanessa]

I'm just saying, I would say fear. Like even though, you know, he's a majority owner and his fear is if I don't do X, Y, Z, the company's not going to run so well.

[Alex]

So he has a huge problem. Say there I can take like if he doesn't stop doing this, the company is in rope.

[Vanessa]

Right. That's my argument.

[Alex]

Right. So I mean the first thing would be get out of operating. The second thing is, I'm guessing it's more than one person. I also don't think, I mean like is operations. How do I put this? Okay, how big is the team? You have the 35.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, we've got 35 doctors, three like apps which are like mid levels, physician assistants, nurse practitioners. We have seven admin support staff.

[Alex]

I would say that the next thing that I would probably is sales. So I would get somebody that can help do those. If he's the only one that's doing it when he doesn't feel like doing it in another time, I wouldn't want to bring in an operational role before I brought a revenue generating role. Because you are basically doing the operational role right now. You're just not empowered to do so. So I don't think it makes sense to bring in the operation. He's just going to cling. He'd be like, oh my God, spending money on this person. Never bring any money. I already know. So you had to bring in the salesperson first and Then bring in the coo. But like, I mean, I have a hard time thinking he's going to listen to this advice. You're like, yeah, I agree.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, he's just starting to warm up to it, but yeah, he does an argument. The CEO.

[Alex]

I mean, like the thing I would. You want, what do you like? I mean, like, do you enjoy this? Do you like the work?

[Vanessa]

I'm a very. So I'm a medical provider as well. And um, I want to be on medicine, but I'm very into strategy and operations. I love looking at the business and like, what's profiting. And I. It almost like incessant, like, like annoying now to him because every day I'm looking at numbers, like, what could we improve on? But that's what I find to be the best. And so I'm kind of like, if we exit, I'm going to go do that with another company and then they're done. Another company. It's like my long term plan.

[Alex]

Understood. So you're not going to work together?

[Vanessa]

That's a tough question because I already work with him in the other two businesses. But it's not in the same capacity. Not nearly in the same capacity.

[Jason]

Just going to give up.

[Vanessa]

I know.

[Alex]

I mean, no, come on. I.

[Vanessa]

Why work together? Why don't work together?

[Alex]

Three businesses and they're like half the same. I'm so confused.

[Vanessa]

Why does he have three?

[Alex]

Why are there so many? This sounds terrible. Like, he's like, oh, if it's not. If it keeps being this stressful. I met him, I quit. I'm like, you did this. You made this happen. You did this to yourself. So what do you mean you're just gonna go do it somewhere else? Like, the problem is in here. It's like a business. Yeah, what the fuck? Everyone here is a business. Some of them are like, I take weekends, I got kids, I got all this stuff. Like, it's not the business, it's how you guys are operating, the mindset around it. Like, why do you need to be this busy and then complain about being this busy?

[Vanessa]

I don't.

[Alex]

I'm saying it's you. Because he's not here.

[Vanessa]

I don't need to be this busy.

[Alex]

Yeah, I sense it.

[Vanessa]

I don't need to be in your reality, but yeah, you do.

[Alex]

You're part of the problem. You're like, odd he's not here. What? What if he doesn't even exist? Now you really caught on. My boyfriend. Yeah, man. Why are you still operating?

[Vanessa]

It's going to Be because he brings in the most profit out of any.

[Alex]

So you already know what to do here. Real problem. The real problem is that you're trying to change somebody. Yeah. Like, you're here, he didn't even come.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, because, you know, it suits out reading.

[Alex]

So that the thing that easy get fixed is the dynamic between the two of you. Right. Because like, you're. You sound like you can be incredibly effective and you know what to do to fix this business and what to get to the point to sell it or to keep it and not hate it. But how do you communicate with him? And then it's like, to what degree is that your job? And that's what you have to figure out. And that's something I can't answer for you. But I think you really need to think about. Because if you're constantly trying, like, this isn't even like a business growth problem. This is like, I'm trying to like, fix somebody's mindset problem. And I don't see that ending in a good place. Like, I'm looking at you as like, you're. You're in this business like, you're partnering together on this thing rather than like, boyfriend, girlfriend, and like me just telling you this, like, if you guys aren't on the same page and this person's over here do this thing, and you're over here doing this thing, that's a setup for resentment. And so, like, we have to figure out how you guys can communicate more effectively. So either you can be on the same page about what you do with the business, or you decide, you know what, like, I, I will go work in a different business because that's the only thing that I'm like, concerned about besides the actual business piece. Just like you're here life. That just tells me the fact that you, like, did that you came here, you're asking this question like, you really care about the business. You want to fucking do whatever it takes to make it work. And like, if that's not if, then you come back and you're like, here's what we need to do. And then this person is not receptive to it. That's a partnership issue. And I'm not saying, like, romantically. Are you just saying, like, this is standpoint. I just think about that because it's. And the question is just like, in what situation do you gain respect for yourself? And you want to make sure that when you're in a partnership with somebody, anybody in here, that you have more respect for yourself because of the partner that you have in business, in life, whatever. But, like, in this case, in business, like, you want to feel, like, proud of the fact that you guys have a great partnership and you're working together and kids working in the way that you wanted to. So I would just think about that.

[Vanessa]

Okay, thank you.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Israel]

I am Israel from Mexico. I sell a sales coach. I'm a sales Coach for sales, B2B salespeople.

[Alex]

I'm just.

[Israel]

And I can relate a little bit with Alex, because big part of why I'm here and I become this man is because of my wife, because she's pushing me to be better now. So I created my business two years and a half ago. Last year, I solved 200k, 170 revenue. I started to do, like, everything all over Blaze and start to get structure. And I am the business, you know, I am the face. I have a podcast. I talk to the camera. I like it. I'm a former actor, so this happens to me. I'm trying to put the things together.

[Alex]

It's okay.

[Israel]

So you agree? Because I was landing the question, you know, so what I want to do is achieve a big brand. I'm a conferencist speaker. So I am the face, and I want to create the biggest community of salespeople in Latin America, my communities. In school this year, I'm aiming for a million. I started kind of slow. I mean, 20k right now. Some issues over there. So I'm going to get to a million as soon as possible. That's the goal. And then to 3 million and then 5 million. But the point is that there is a podcast that I heard, a thousand followers that I've heard Alex podcast. Then he says that you told him some years ago that you told him, do not delude yourself for other people. You know, and that came to me because I felt like even though I share a lot in my social media, I am still deluding myself. So I am my constraint to create a personal brand that I want to be for the people that follow me. You know, there's many things that I don't do or I show because I feel like, who am I to show it, you know? So even though I reach some levels, there are still limiting beliefs in other levels, you know, So I think that I have the vehicles and I have the resources to create a business now. I'm part of the damn fam now, so I'm going to make it faster. But there is some things that I want to understand and let go so I can create a better personal brand. Bigger and reach more people and create a culture around it. So you as an expert of that, what would you recommend me to?

[Alex]

So it sounds like the problem is that you know that you're holding back and you believe that's why your brand hasn't gotten as big as it can get as fast. You know what?

[Israel]

Yeah, it could be the area right now.

[Alex]

Do you think that. Is that the problem that you want to.

[Israel]

I don't think it's a problem, but I think that it could be because I could be doing more. Like I'm really working on it. I really put my effort in my answer. But I think that I could be reaching more people and showing more. And I right now is probably not the main constraint. I have others I don't understood here, but I don't want it to be a problem in two or three years or.

[Alex]

Well, I mean, I guess the way I look at it is like this, like I give him, I said that to him. Because that's also what I've had to say to myself because, you know, I started making content and I didn't want to make content at first. And mostly because I was like, I don't, I don't know, like, I don't know if there's like a niche for me out there, right? And I felt like I appreciate and I felt like, I don't know, I was just nervous, right? I was just nervous. I was scared of people. I say. And then I started putting myself out there and you know, like while people are like, I started doing it and like it was really good. That's not how it wanted. So I started for making content and then it was like off. Like it was terrible the things people were saying about me. And I was like, what? And it was not even about my advice or anything. It's always how I look, that sounded, my voice, this and that. Oh my God. And I was just like, what is going on? And so it's funny because I first started putting out content. It was definitely diluted and then this started happening and then I was like, well I feel terrible and like I've been fucking middle school again and this feels awful. And I'm over here like I'm friggin 30. I've like bill $100 million company stuff. And I still like feeling being bullied on the Internet. And it was probably like four months after this like all started happening and I was just like, you know what I realized was I kept putting out content, but as I was putting it out, I realized that it Wasn't. It wasn't actually what I thought. It wasn't actually how I spoke and it wasn't actually who I was authentically. And when I say authentic, I think it means acting as if you won't get punished. Like when we say, who is my authentic self? It's like being able to act in a way that you would if there was no fear of punishment. That's really what authenticity is. And I was like, I am very scared of punishment. I'm scared to get ripped apart. I'm scared to go all this stuff. And I was like, wait, I already am. And it's not even for the person I really am. It's just for this watered down version of myself. So I was like, you know what, if I'm getting approved, a fart might as well go down at least being myself because right now they hate me. And I hate that version of myself online because it's not really who I am. And at least in one scenario, I like myself, they can hate me, I don't give a shit. And that was really why. And I think a lot of people as they put their brands out there and a lot of you guys have brands that you put out there, what stops you is that as you get more success, you always get more downside as well. Like everyone says I want a big company, but then they don't know that what the downside of a big company is. Everyone says I want a big brand. They don't know what the downside of the big brand is, you know, and like nobody can talk about it because it's like, oh, well, you have a brand though. And it's like, okay, yes, but with more success becomes more problems. And so I think that it's recognizing that you have to prepare yourself for the downside of the upside. That's what I say. And if you dilute yourself, you only get, you get more downside, less upside. If you remain true to yourself, you get more upside in the same round. Upside and higher. You know what I'm saying? So you're still going to get the downside either way. In one scenario, you get less of the upside because you're never going to resonate with people if you're buffering yourself. And that's just what I've seen with time and time again. I mean, I see with Alex, I've seen it with myself. If I, I see it was playing my friends. I mean, I've seen their brand stall. So many big brands stall because they start buffering, they start getting scared and it's almost like playing not to lose rather than playing to win. It's like you're just doing things because you don't want to get shit on rather than because you believe something you want to advocate for and because you want to get an idea out there. And so I think it's just having that mentality in all facets of life and I think brand is a difficult one because you know, you put yourself out there and you get real time feedback from all these people who have, they don't have a fear of punishment because they leave a comment under J643 with a cat fixture. Nobody gives a fuck and nobody knows who they are. And so I think it, I think I'll say this like, I think it's an important lesson because people assume all upside on things. They assume fame is all upside. Brand is all upside down. Money is all upside. Everything is 50:50. It's 50:50. When you don't have money, it's 50:50. When you have money, it's 50 50. Donna, Brandy. But you, when you have a brand, happiness and success are not the same thing.

[Israel]

And so you think that at the same time like when you are sharing all this content and your team watch this content, you're actually coaching what's mindset.

[Alex]

Right.

[Israel]

So if you're holding back, they just say or if you're like often even you have this consistency and sharing all these things at the end like that's you. So everyone that joins you is because they know you in a way, right?

[Alex]

Yeah. So I mean I feel like for that perspective before I think about from any other perspective, which is like, are people really like when people meet me in person, are they going to get the same thing they saw online? And I fail a little bit there because I don't make as much content as I could. I mean I do like one day a week but I try at least in that content to not be tired or pissed off or something.

[Israel]

You know? Yeah, I understand.

[Alex]

You just can't like fear. Stop it. Because at the end of the day like anything we do that's controlled by fear, it just robs up of our own self confidence. And like I would hate that more than people hating me, you know?

[Israel]

Yeah. I mean in the way I think about is like what how if it's osceolics, I haven't crossed that like that me doing that and stopping that beauty belief will actually 2, 3 or 5x my business.

[Alex]

Did anybody swell? That's one thing because like our limits are self Imposed. Yeah.

[Israel]

That's why I got to almost 200k followers now. So I think that that's the next level. It's like 500 million.

[Alex]

I remember for me, when, in my, like, when. When it happened for me was actually literally at like 200, 000 followers on, like, Instagram. I think I was. And then I just decided I didn't give him a anymore. I was like, let them all hate me. And the opposite happened. I grew faster because I wasn't monitoring myself. I wasn't. I call it spying on yourself. I wasn't, like, repeating things I said, monitoring myself in the back. You know what I mean? And I do think it helps a lot if you have people around you that support you for being you and don't try to tell you to be otherwise. Like, everyone deserves somebody who just accepts them for who they are, all their flaws. It's really hard, really, really, really hard to be successful without that, because that's very lonely.

[Israel]

And, yeah, you're bringing yourself balance on people you're looking to.

[Alex]

Great.

[Israel]

Thank you.

[Alex]

Thank you.

[Jerry]

I'm Jerry. I sell math tutoring to elementary and high school students.

[Alex]

Oh, cool.

[Jerry]

Yeah, we use a monthly subscription model. We're doing about 815k annually. I would like to get north of 5 billion. That'd be awesome. And what's stopping us, I feel, is my inability to lead the team properly, specifically curating and nurturing.

[Jason]

Tal.

[Jerry]

So my question for you is, if I want to build a company culture with a standard for excellence, what can I do as the leader to help support and help my team in pursuit of that goal? Specifically, could you walk me through your stages of development in becoming the leader you are today and the keystone lessons you've taken on the way?

[Alex]

Well, let me ask you this first so I can give you a better answer, which is what is not happening right now that you think should be happening or would be happening if you were the leader that you wish to be?

[Jerry]

A critical mass of training and attention to each or my team members.

[Alex]

How many teammates do you have?

[Jerry]

We fluctuate anywhere from 7 to 13. Right now, we have just under 10. And these are instructors in the center.

[Alex]

Okay, and then what do you spend most of your time doing right now?

[Jerry]

Right now, the density of my time goes towards taking care of the parents, because essentially, we have two clientele. We have the student and we have the parent. Right?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

So right now, my team takes care of the students. I try to advise them on how to teach a student so that I can increase my Severe of influence while I handle the parents, their needs and their requests and I try to explain to the team in a daily meeting.

[Alex]

Understood. Well, there's a couple of things here, which is in the beginning, especially at the size you're at, it is messy, it's not perfect. There's no perfect cookie cutter development plan in place when you have that few people. And it's trying to put that stuff in place too soon. Depending on how big you want the business to be, sometimes actually is not the best because you need to be scrappy in the beginning. And so for me, when I was trying to develop people in the beginning, I did 100% of it through shadowing. I was like, I don't have time, but you can watch me. I mean seriously, like I remember the first few hires in sales, cs, even finance. I just blew them out to my fucking apartment, Albuquerque. And I was like, just come watch us work and like pick it up. And that's how I trained people.

[Jerry]

How long did you do that for? For each person that was shadowing, how long?

[Alex]

Yeah, probably have to come out for two or three days. Okay. And that was also cuz I, I was trying to get to know them. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. So I was really inefficient. You know what I mean? Now, in terms of training then and investing in them, I. In the first three years of my first company, I put together essentially every two weeks. I committed to every two weeks I had a group training for the leadership team. And so that's what I invested most of my time in. Now the reason I invested most of my time in the leadership team is because I believe that the job of a leader is to create more leaders. And if I can create leaders who create leaders, that's the goal. But that doesn't happen unless you put effort into the leaders. And so it's like, where do you get the most leverage is putting it into leaders. Now right now I don't think you have any. Correct, correct, correct. So you're going to put it into the whole team and that might just be into their skill in general. Now in doing that, I think you basically would need to commit to a cadence in which you are training them on something. Now the question is, is it their technical skills or is it their emotional skills that they need more training on? But essentially what I did is I just said, you know what? I'm going to think I have a temperature on the company every two weeks I'm going to decide like what is Most top of mind. Where's the temperature at? What do they need to hear? And that's what I'm going to work on with them for that session. And I really think that those sessions were what built the culture in that company because, yeah, we were in person, we were remote and it showed everybody that I wanted to invest them and put the time into them. Now was it perfect? Did we have this like really tiered, nice ladder development plan? No, none of that. But in the beginning, you have to do with whatever you have. And so if that means every two weeks you put together a session and then they get to ask questions after, that's what you do.

[Israel]

Yeah. And you just did a big CD in the team.

[Jerry]

Here's what's top of mind.

[Alex]

Yeah, here's feedback. I set the tone with the culture and then I talked through how to do the thing. Here's how, you know, for leaders, for example, it'd be like, here's how you hold people accountable, here's how you run a meeting, here's how you do a huddle, here's how you have a hard conversation. And I tried to break things down to be like theory and then tactics, which is like, okay, how can you go implement this? And I actually learned that because, you know, Alex was always making content. And so I was like, what content does the best? It was always stuff that had theory but that it had tactics. So I was like, why should train the team the same way? And so I think that you almost think about it. Like I think about when I make things for my team as making content for them or see if I were a content creator, it's like I'm making it for my team. And I think if you thought about it that way, that'd be pretty helpful.

[Jerry]

Yeah, just come up with topics to.

[Jason]

Go over with the team.

[Alex]

Yeah, it's like culture, what's top of mind? And you go over with them, you allow them to ask questions, you ask for feedback at the end. What could I do better next time? What would you like to hear about? What would you like to have a training on that will go really far? Cool. Just do one thing. You've already got a lot up on your plate and on your size. Like you don't want to over commit. Like I. That's one thing I'm really cognizant of is like never over commit what you're going to do for your team. Always under commit, if anything, and then over deliver because they're going to remember the thing that you committed to be like why aren't they doing it?

[Jerry]

Yeah, what does over committing look like?

[Alex]

Saying that you're going to be with them every week and then reducing it to every other week press. So is that helpful?

[Jerry]

Yeah, that is.

[Alex]

Okay, good. That's what I would do.

[Israel]

Awesome.

[Jerry]

Well, thank you to you and Alex for being my North Star when I.

[Jason]

Was lost in the desert.

[Jerry]

Really appreciate you guys.

[Vivian]

Brittany Quinn Online D2C Executive Coach Two and a half years in female executives corporate. Double or triple their salary is the offer. 1.4 million over the last 12 months. 62% in profit. I want to hit 8.6 this year. 15% month over month. Can't do it because I can't replace myself in sales. Been through 14 closers at this point. No one will close and it's because they don't understand Avatar. The only closer that can get that appears to be that way. She had to be at least a.

[Alex]

VP of corporate America. So I don't like that issue.

[Vivian]

I cannot get someone like that to walk away from a 300, $500,000 W2 gig to work for a small business.

[Alex]

Have any of your clients had any interest?

[Vivian]

No, I can't get them at that level even at a 10% cut of what they close.

[Alex]

So you have two options. Which is one, you could figure out a way to make the sale easier and essentially take some of the authority frame out of the sale and put it into other elements. Like do you have a VSL or a webinar or anything like that? I'll direct bsl. Book a call. Okay, so it's VSL to book a call. How long is this?

[Vivian]

Less than five minutes.

[Alex]

Okay, and then tell me the structure of book all.

[Vivian]

So then they land on a thank you page, do the homework. She double dials text calls, does a full hour discovery. Congrats, you're approved. We're going to walk you. Custom food, a solution books. A second call. Would like to drill that down to one call close. I haven't mastered that quite yet. They get on a call with me right now I'm closing at like anywhere. 48 to 62% depending on time of year. I can't get in closer over 17% and that was like a top performing closer.

[Alex]

Okay, and what's the offer?

[Vivian]

15K upfront, four months executive coaching, back ends 25k, another four minutes.

[Alex]

So it's up front, all up front. Painful. Yeah, you really have two routes. So either you can come up with something more incentivizing to get somebody who has the skill to Complete the scale sale or you can make the sale easier. Which do you think makes more sense?

[Vivian]

Yeah and that's what she one of your teammates told me earlier is for me to pitch in like a group setting like this.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Vivian]

Help help me with the mindset on that. Got 1.4 million less than 2 1/2 years like as a solopreneur basically just started building the team to take that be like eh let's try events.

[Alex]

It's a little freaky Tony. Well you don't have to try events. You could do a zoom.

[Vivian]

I have done that at a live watch method at first launch miserable try again. I did it for like 8 months paid ads, 7 days of pitching and then I direct to VSL just converted like crazy. That's when we actually took off.

[Alex]

Did you change your offer? I messaged pricing only offer. What was the pricing before?

[Vivian]

I've done everything from 5k to 35k.

[Alex]

Four months. Okay 16k. Yes.

[Vivian]

We on spot and it was all painful cold traffic.

[Alex]

Cold traffic. Yeah. VSO ads meta. So you're saying you did live launches where you pitched webinars that and where did. Now this is all cold traffic. Do you have a brand file anything like that? No, just straight coal. Straight cold.

[Vivian]

I mean that was two and a half years ago. I mean now it's minimal. You could I wouldn't even call it a brand on organic whatsoever.

[Alex]

Understood that makes it a little harder.

[Vivian]

But I am the case study like that that's what how I could close like 13x my own comp package of 5 years the floor price got my.

[Alex]

Bag started the company so when you teach somebody to do the sale how do you teach them sell what's your process for training them and do the.

[Vivian]

4Ds but it's constantly read my fucking script. Don't go off script.

[Alex]

Right. Do they read the script and every time they read in but I still.

[Vivian]

Have to do call to I still have to close. It's then you like I get her to seven Leafs you know paying cost of mine else then she can craft the perfect pitch and then finally handling objections. It's like a four month to ramp a closer. I lose one out of 14 so far.

[Alex]

So do you do two calls?

[Vivian]

Yes, I'm testing one call close on myself just because I know I can do it. It's the whole idea. There's a lot of shame in this avatar. I'm like I should just get the cookie because I worked hard and so what I ultimately do was like teach her hard Work doesn't pay off in the corporate gig so much as you have to advocate for yourself at that level. So it's a lot of like breaking that down and like showing her like you can do.

[Alex]

Why do you not teach that the closer though?

[Vivian]

I do.

[Alex]

You do? I do. This just doesn't work.

[Vivian]

No. Like they don't understand like the basics. Like when the avatar on the call says, hey, I'm sick of like not getting paid. I realize the dude sitting next to me has double my salary. So they oh yeah, that's not fair.

[Alex]

I'll be like, okay, what are you.

[Vivian]

Going to do about it? Like you can compete or you can complain.

[Alex]

Like they will pull tarts accountability so that. How long do you train somebody before you put them on the thumb?

[Vivian]

She goes through the entire curriculum the first week and then I'll start sprinkling. One call a day.

[Alex]

Give her.

[Vivian]

We do markups, sales meetings every single day. EOD every single day.

[Alex]

And then how long has any of the flizzers stayed on for? 4 months. That's the most. That's the most it got. Yeah.

[Vivian]

And she's just like the perfect. Like I can take her, but I.

[Alex]

Have to teach her a four bit skill.

[Vivian]

Like the corporate speak in general and how they diagnostic.

[Alex]

Because I'm just thinking to myself like so in our first company, for example, we had the first goal was get Alex and Layla off the first calls, right? And so that's what we did. And it took about, I think we got off the second calls about 12 to 14 months later. Because what we did was we allowed those salespeople who got really good at the first ones to eventually take a try once they were very competent, had.

[Vivian]

The second calls, but they ran discovery essentially for a year, where you give them a pitch, would like to do that a lot faster than a year.

[Alex]

Here's the thing. The reason that we did that is because again, every avatar is different, right. We didn't want to drop revenue too much. And so we're like, you know what, if we've got to take some of these calls, that's fine. At the same time, we realized that the best closers were people that had had gyms because that was what we were assigned to as gym owners. Those people were also not the easiest to get to do sales. There was only a few, right? And then some of them actually, I mean like some were really good, some also weren't. But we realized that the people that were the most convicted in the product were the ones who end up doing the Best, whether that's because they came from being a gym owner or because they've been there long enough to see all the success stories. And so I just keep coming back to this thought of like, I just don't feel like we're giving it enough time to train somebody up on some of these things. Because if you're, if you're not going to be able to bring somebody on at the price tag that they need, who has that experience, then you're going to have to pay in time, which is training somebody in four months. I mean, like, that's enough time for them to get really proficient at the first sale. But I don't see it as like, I don't think that that's for what you're, you're having to get, but the avatar that you have to get to do sales for you, I don't think that's unreasonable that that person doesn't nail on the second one yet given how big of a skill gap there is between you and that person.

[Vivian]

And other than webinar, there's any other ideas to do that on a bigger scale versus being one to one every single close.

[Alex]

I mean, to be fair, when we were doing the closes, I would have six people on a call. Okay. So I mean, I did group closes on calls. Okay. I had no issue. And it was actually in the same price point, which was, it was 16K for four months. It's just, honestly just keeping the frame. I mean. But here's the thing. I did group in person pitches before that in gyms and a weight loss facility. So I'd have like 20 people in a room and one person would be like the focus. This I was like, you can lay, you know, and then just go back to, you know, selling people and something. So it's just about holding the frame at that point. You know what I mean? But like I said, I just don't really see that being an issue for you. I mean, I was like a 24 year old, inexperienced, whatever, with like 35, 40 year old men that I was selling. So, you know, I, I feel like that won't be hard for you. I would try it, but I would also say, like, I think this is just patience. I, I don't think that what you're doing, I don't think nothing you're doing is like inherently wrong or up. Like there's nothing. The methodology is not all. I just think it's not giving enough time and having different expectations. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Hey, Leila.

[Jason]

Jason shebernick here. Washington D.C. two companies, we run a sales team, 26 sales agents selling residential real estate. We're here to grow our property management business. Revenue was it's going to be 3 million this year net of 1.4 npm and then residential sales revenue is 4.2 net. Did 2.6.

[Alex]

Nice.

[Jason]

Awesome caveat. 1.7 of that was my personal sales. So where we're at is the sellable entity that we really want to grow is the PM business. And I know that my time and sales is roadblock. I love the income. 1.5 to 2 million every single year, no problem. But I need to look at and find a traditional strategy and eliminate opportunity costs as much as possible. With me coming back from sales to focus on the property management business which we think we can grow. The goal is to 10x the property business in five years.

[Alex]

And this is specifically because you want to sell it.

[Jason]

It's an amazing annuity based business that ends up feeding the sales business. Renters to buyers, landlords to listings. It's already creating opportunity. It is already a self sufficient business. Sharon over here runs it. And so with that it's super growable. We know we can grow 20 to 25% organically year over year. Not organically through paid ads and initiatives that we're doing. And then M and A, we plan to buy one to two businesses a year which we'll do by three businesses this year in that space. And that's where we're crying so fast. And so I love that idea. I love Mission when it does all those things. It's just I work so hard to create with creative and a lot of it's been on the back of those commission sales and it's like a shit ton of money to give up when I know it's like something I can just go out and close 250k in a month like no problem.

[Alex]

What would you do if you had that time back to make to grow the business?

[Jason]

That's what I've been reflecting on. I think that's great. I think we identified three things. I think I would focus on hiring and hiring more people in that space and focusing time and investing in those people. I know that that would create a lot of change. And then the second thing I would do would be prospecting businesses to purchase and focus on closing that high ticket sale of closing on a business which is a very long term cycle. Nine to 16 months is how long it's taken us to build a relationship that closes and that pipeline is drying up. So I Know that that needs to be a focus and that would be a longer term pipeline.

[Alex]

So if you were to train somebody else to do to supplement the $250,000 in sales that you're breaking each month, what would that look like in your opinion, from a team standpoint?

[Jason]

Yep, I've started. So I hired a licensed assistant who works with me seven days a week, no days off, who wouldn't love that job?

[Jerry]

Sounds great.

[Jason]

It's actually Sharon's son called Sharon again.

[Alex]

Tell Sharon see straight.

[Jason]

But there's still a stock gap there similar to who just spoke where you know your ability to close in high ticket sales to a million doll point takes a certain person to show up in that appointment and close that kind of client. Right. Like you guys would be my own client buying two $3 million properties. And so I can scale by taking intake calls and then going appointments with people. It's more about do I make the decision to escalate growth dramatically by just shifting my time dramatically and having opportunity cost of maybe losing 800k in income, or do I just work twice as hard for two years and just grind, which I don't really want to do because I've grinded a lot to get.

[Alex]

To where I am. Well, I think that there's one, there's a middle ground and two, I think in short term, long term, right. So the middle ground is that you don't aim to bring in 250,000, but could you peel it back and say, you know, I'm going to aim to bring in a hundred thousand for the next however many months? Totally. Right. I think a second piece to it is like where I, where I have an unknown is how you're going to operate and how your decision making will be affected if suddenly the money's gone, which a lot of people like, it's like, oh, should I quit my job to do. And I'm like, well, how are you going to feel? You don't have money coming? You know what I mean? So for some people, they make better decisions when they have more money coming in. And so that's something to ask yourself, which is like, if that money disappears tomorrow and I have not $250,000 and I'm actually spending more money and more time making less money, how am I going to act? How am I going to operate? How am I going to feel knowing yourself? Right. I would say that short term, if you do not get anybody to come in and do those sales, I think it'll be tough from an emotional standpoint, just like for anybody, because like you make less money, you're working hard on something that doesn't have an immediate reward. And so like you look at human behavior like we do what we're rewarded to do. That comes with like the shortest term reward. That's where we. And then getting a lot of short term rewards and then eventually getting a long term reward. Like that's how you keep in the game of business is like you engineer it. So you do get short term rewards until you get the long one, which is like you sell business and make much money. Right. But people who don't, it gets very. It's a lot harder. Right. And so it's better if you can engineer. So like I do like the fact of thinking, how could we continue making some of that money? Because it's going to take a second for you to see it anywhere else. And you're going to be doing these acquisitions and doing all these things that spit out money. It's like, well, if that money's not coming in and so my question is, what would you have to do to attract somebody who could close those deals?

[Jason]

I think I might have the person on the team already. I just need to be willing to create that connection and have that conversation. So it's a lot to give to someone. Well, it's like a gift, you know, it's like that's a big decision. It's like, hey, I'm going to make you 500 grand extra this year. Yeah, well, so I need to think that through. But that's a good point.

[Alex]

Well, the other option is that you just don't make the money.

[Jason]

What y' all think?

[Alex]

I just think, I really do think like if I'm balancing the business and your headspace because just like patterns, I'm not putting any on you, but like, I think it makes it easier if you're still, if the money is new to zero, if there's still some revenue coming in, you have somebody that you could have take that over. I think that's smart. Now, is there the chance that person walks away at some point? Yes. It happens to me all the time. Right. It happens to everybody in business. And then they go do their own thing or build their. And that's the cost of doing business. But if you don't take that risk, you're not going to have that ability to grow the business to the extent it needs to. Because anyone that operates in that mindset doesn't grow big business.

[Jason]

I got that kind of like celebrity status. I'm the number one Realtor in my market. Number one sales team in our market.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And so maintaining that status has extra weight and it carries a lot when it comes to opportunity leads closing our team of 26 salespeople.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jason]

ET cetera.

[Alex]

So I think maintaining contact with that team makes a lot of sense. That's what I was understanding being doing it with them. I think that you could take a step back. I think what you could do is you do a half step, which is you say, I'm going to aim to close half that this month and then we'd give the other half to this person or even disperse it at once. To few. Yeah.

[Jason]

Take away top five and be like.

[Alex]

Hey, you're going to be my. Yeah, yeah. It's like we can phase in and out of. I know that usually when you make a decision in your mind so you want to just go all in. But I have seen that most of the time if you phase something, it's just much more successful.

[Jason]

I could also just choose a price point and just only work stuff.

[Alex]

Over a million. Yeah.

[Jason]

High ticket sales only.

[Alex]

I like that.

[Jason]

I appreciate it.

[Alex]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jason]

Thank you so much.

[Alex]

Of course. My name's Kate.

[Vanessa]

I sell nutrition coaching to people who want to be less bat. I do a 250,000 and I'd like to be at a million. What's stopping me is it's just me.

[Alex]

I don't know how to scale.

[Vanessa]

I pretty much solely rely on Instagram organic content. And then most of my recurring revenue, or a big chunk of it is like one on one coaching.

[Alex]

Tell me, over the last few days, what did you learn your constraint to be? That's just you.

[Jason]

That's it.

[Kate]

It's kind of b.

[Alex]

Okay. And then right now, what does your sales process look like? If they're on Instagram, then how do you sell them up? Is it DMs? Is it calls a lot of DMs.

[Vanessa]

But a lot of also just demand. Just people work with me.

[Alex]

Okay. No, but how do you facilitate? Do you talk to them on the thumb?

[Vanessa]

No, it's. It's messages straight to a sales page.

[Alex]

And you're trying to figure out how to scale it. Okay, so then on the 101, you're saying it's one on one coaching. Right. What does that look like? Like what do I get? I sign up. What do I get from you?

[Vanessa]

So you get like weekly check ins with me.

[Alex]

Is that a call? Is that a.

[Vanessa]

There's an option for a call. But it's also most, most people are.

[Alex]

Online through an app. So they don't have any one on nothing. It's just like knowing it too. Yeah. This is easy. So the DM piece is like the easiest. The first place that you have leverage is to hire setters. Yeah. Okay. So hiring people to do the setting to basically get them to the call where they purchase or get them to the page where they purchase. Right. That's the first area that you can get outsourced fairly quickly. And that's not a hard one at all. There's so many companies that actually will just set you up with those people too. The second place is, I think I would have two different prices. I would have the price for you and I'd have the price for your team. And basically what you're going to want to do is before you go into any kind of group, the easiest thing to do is duplicate what's already working, which is the one on one's working. It's just going to turn to 101 with a coach from your team. And then the way that you position that is you could work with you. But your prices go up. Yeah. And then their prices are more reasonable. So whatever. What's your price?

[Vanessa]

Right up about 70 or $80 a week.

[Alex]

Well, it's going up anyways. It's gonna go up. And now it's the after going up. Damn it. You have a very high price point and you price them at 70 or 80 a week. Or maybe you price the head 100. I like a hundred. And so the question is, which one do you start with? So I'll ask you this, which takes up the most of your time?

[Vanessa]

Probably a little bit just feedback with.

[Alex]

Coaching and then maybe content. So if you hired setters right now, then you are still going to just get backed up on having to make more content for the setters to work and then probably on delivery with having to talk to people. Right. So then it probably makes sense that we first bring in somebody to help coaching. Yeah. Okay. So I would bring in somebody who has credibility. They have a small following. They're not doing well on their own though, because they don't know how to make it rain. And I would say like, hey, do you want to be a coach for me? And you would have to work out what's the split. So that's why it's also good to raise your prices because they're low and you're going to now have to split them with somebody else. What would you do with somebody? Like, I mean, it depends on the quality of coaches. That you think you can get. I would say that I would probably split it based on their experience. Like if you have minimal experience, like, okay, well I'm going to take, you know, 70, you get 30. And if you have a lot of experience, we do 50. 50. Yeah, I probably do something like that, like a tiered structure. Because I don't think it's fair that like every coach get the same split. Because I've seen this in a lot of coaching companies and it's like you have these like coaches that are very senior, very experienced, making the same as these people who are experienced schmucks who like sucking the life out of the senior coaches and they get resentful. It's like, well, they make less money. They're not okay. So I would say I would see who you can bring on. Find somebody hopefully that's more of like a little more autonomous for the first one. Yeah. So that they can kind of like get it up and going and then you just duplicate the system for them. Once you have one coach and you figure out like what's working, you probably have to go through one or two or three to figure out somebody that works. Well. You transition your, some of your clients over. You don't do it all at once. You, you transition to phases. Like anytime with anybody, you guys are transitioning clients doing phases because the average drop off when you transition them under a different coach, CS rep, anything is usually between 10 to 30%. So like it's usually 10 to 30% attrition, depending on the company and the size and the relationship nature. So anticipate some churn, but facilitate the transition. Work out all the kinks. Once you've worked out of the kinks, then it's going to be this is what you're gonna be doing. It's just like hiring more people to do DMs, hiring more people to do coaching. And then you're gonna say, oh my God, I don't have time to do content anymore, which is what drives all of this. And then I'm gonna say, okay, you gotta hire somebody to oversee the coaches and the dm' er, so you're gonna need like an ops person eventually. And then you bring the ops person. They'd be over both sides and then you just are making content and quality, checking the coaching and probably not doing as much of the dm. Yeah, okay, cool. So that seems like, yeah, that makes sense with content.

[Kate]

Does it make sense to start doing ads?

[Alex]

I don't think right now I would just do more of what you're doing. Okay, do more. You could decrease content by 2x. But first you need to make sure that you have something that can take over the other side. Because the way what you increase in them, what you just have more work and less time to build your business. It's gonna be a short term cost, but like it's better for the long term. Otherwise you stay in the spiral. Go.

[Vanessa]

Thank you.