How to Work Less and Make More (Leila Answers Live) | Spotify Video Exclusive

Summary

Build with Leila Hormozi: "How to Work Less and Make More" (Leila Answers Live)

Date: March 1, 2024
Host: Leila Hormozi
Format: Live Q&A with business leaders, entrepreneurs, and founders

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Episode Overview

This episode features a live, candid Q&A with Leila Hormozi, where she answers real-time leadership, team-building, and business scaling questions from callers. Leila leverages her experience of scaling past $100M by age 28 and growing acquisition.com toward a billion-dollar portfolio. The conversation ranges from managing remote teams, instilling core values, delegating authority, recruiting for growth, and balancing friendship with accountability. Leila’s responses are direct, practical, and often nuanced, drawing from both personal experience and broader industry trends.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. Leading Multiple Remote Teams

Caller: Jennifer (Campaign Development Director for a national nonprofit)
Timestamps: 00:22–07:38

• Challenge: Leading five market-focused remote teams (8-10 people each), with direct reports being the five managers. Seeks advice on motivating teams and recognizing individual pain points.
• Leila’s Insight:
  • The challenge isn’t just geographical—it’s about forming a cohesive leadership team out of multiple leaders who might otherwise compete.
  • Cautions that leaders often default to optimizing for their own silo:

    “I think that getting them to act cohesively as a team of its own is probably a more challenging task. As in, how do you get those five people to act as one team versus people that are leaders of their own individual teams.” (04:10)

  • Actionable Strategy:
    • Create goals that require managers to collaborate, not just compete.
    • Chunk up goals above the location/regional level. Incentivize teamwork and peer-to-peer teaching.
    • “I would make the goals chunked up a level in terms of how do you make goals where they have to work together…and help each other, even teach each other things.” (06:14)
    • Competitiveness is natural among leaders, but alignment and shared incentives reduce silos and friction.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Why would you expect them to be better teammates when you don’t incentivize them on anything that would require them to learn the skill of being a better teammate?” (07:13)

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2. Core Values in Practice

Caller: Joey
Timestamps: 07:48–14:36

• Question: How can core values act as a daily decision-making tool, and why do many companies struggle to put values into practice?
• Leila’s Insight:
  • Values dictate behaviors, not just slogans.
  • Real-world example: Balancing sincere candor with a value of “praise over punishment.” Leila describes correcting team behavior creatively instead of defaulting to reprimand. (09:18–09:41)
  • Values as lived experience:

    “Anyone can say they’ve got core values, but people will experience it when they're in your company. And so I think you almost let the team speak for you…” (11:49)

  • On skepticism and disillusion with values:
    • Many workplaces originated in transactional/manual labor environments where values were less critical.
    • Companies with high demand and little consequence for culture often de-prioritize values:

      “…the biggest organizations out there…don’t need to treat people well and act with, like, moral authority because they have a line of thousands of people… It’s unfortunate and I hope it changes.” (13:02)

  • Practical tip: Invite teams to discuss what values mean to them to build buy-in and connection.

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3. Transferring Authority and Internal Succession

Caller: Romy (Event business co-founder)
Timestamps: 14:43–18:18

• Situation: Romy’s new event manager receives external requests to “check with Romy,” undermining authority.
• Leila’s Framework:
  • Authority transfer must be a process, not a switch.
  • Steps:
    1. Pre-sell the manager’s credentials & authority to everyone involved.
    2. Co-lead calls and meetings with the new manager, overtly edifying and reinforcing their role.
    3. Privately and publicly advocate for the manager, providing real-time affirmation.
    4. Gradually phase oneself out.

    “When somebody else is asking for you, it’s like there’s something that you were giving them that they no longer are getting… Authority transfer is not an event, it’s a process.” (15:50)

  • If not handled, logic alone won’t override psychological trust/relationship.

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4. Skills vs. Culture in Early-Stage Hiring

Caller: Jennifer (Bookkeeping business owner)
Timestamps: 18:23–21:06

• Dilemma: Hire for cultural fit/attitude and train, or hire for advanced skill even if they’re less likable?
• Leila’s Analysis:
  • If the business can absorb the ramp time and owner can train, prioritize values/culture.
  • Stronger retention and alignment if you mold someone aligned with your standards.
  • If urgency or lack of time/skill to train, hire skilled talent, but don’t neglect culture/likability—just means a harder recruiting challenge.
  • Quote:

    “If you have the skill, you have the ability to train them, and you have the time to train them, then that makes sense… If I don't have time and I don’t have skill to train somebody, I would bring somebody in who does have the skill.” (19:31–20:24)

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5. Motivating Teams Around Vision

Caller: Candace (CEO, Organic Radiance Skincare)
Timestamps: 21:14–28:18

• Question: How to rally a small team around a bold, transformative vision?
• Leila’s Advice:
  • For small teams, cast achievable 3-year visions (not audacious 10-year dreams) to avoid damaging credibility or recruitment.

    “If I had started gym launch and said… ‘I’m going to build a company that’s going to change the entire industry’…I feel like people would have been, ‘this lady’s cracked out’…” (23:35)

  • As you build evidence—team, revenue, customers—grow the vision outward.
  • On niche positioning for skincare: Don’t over-index on “health” alone (at the expense of “looks”). “Bridge the gap” and don’t alienate mainstream motivations:

    “I think that you will get a subset of the market. I think that you will limit yourself. The first thing I thought…is why can’t you do both?” (26:17)

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6. Building Your First Team: Experience vs. Culture and Clarity

Caller: Adriana (Co-founder, SaaS company "Ongoing")
Timestamps: 28:30–33:21

• If Leila could do it over:
  • Strategically map which roles require outside experience and which can be trained internally.
  • Don’t default to only training or only hiring experienced staff.

    “…I swayed between like, in the beginning I trained everybody myself and I had no time to actually lead the company. And then I went towards hiring everybody from the outside and then it was like a lot of competing opinions.” (31:10)

  • Keep it simple—treat the team with care, reward them, and build strong relationships.
  • Leadership hacks only go so far if your natural inclination is toward people.

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7. When and How to Promote Internals vs. Hiring Managers Externally

Caller: Staffing Company Owner
Timestamps: 33:46–40:56

• Challenge: No managers yet, large team, considering internal promotion vs. external hire for sales manager.
• Leila’s Framework:
  • Internal: Only if someone is demonstrably ready, wants the role, can be reasonably trained, and it fits their career path.
  • Internal promotions often falter if individuals are not incentivized by or ready for management (lost reinforcement cycle from sales to manager).

    “I think that a lot of sales people don’t make it into sales management not because they don’t have the skill or desire, but because the reinforcement cycle is too long.” (36:35)

  • With rapid growth and personal bandwidth issues, lean toward experienced external hires.
  • Transparency matters:

    “I would 100% tell them straight up… You’re welcome to apply. If you don’t have the skills and requirements that I’m looking for, I will turn you down just like another candidate.” (38:15–38:42)

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8. Balancing Friendship and Accountability as a Young Team Leader

Caller: Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner
Timestamps: 41:00–46:10

• Dilemma: Young, rapidly scaling team. Close in age, easy camaraderie. How to stay friendly while maintaining authority and standards?
• Leila’s Reflection:
  • It only becomes an issue if it clouds judgment or performance management.

  • “If we’re friends with people and nothing is happening, is that a problem? I’d say no…But if you're not able to get [results]… I would consider that to be a ‘problem’…” (43:24)

  • Start by clarifying roles and SOPs before attributing problems to over-friendliness.
  • If problems arise (e.g., missed details), ensure processes/procedures are explicit before scaling up accountability conversations.

    “People can do a ten out of ten in their job, but you may not have outlined what the job is… Therefore, you set them up for failure…” (45:27)

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9. Systems, Processes vs. Innovation: Handling "Whiplash"

Caller: Raquel, Fractional COO
Timestamps: 46:15–49:51

• Challenge: Balancing the visionary’s appetite for constant innovation with the need for operational stability—avoiding whiplash among teams.
• Leila’s Approach:
  • Distinguish between “tests” (temporary experiments) and “changes” (permanent adjustments).
  • Communicate to teams that you’re running an experiment before instituting a change.

    “We don’t change anything. We test, and then decide if we’re going to change.” (49:21)

  • Build a workflow: Test → Evaluate → Implement change only if it outperforms status quo.

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10. Measuring Leadership and Catching Mistakes as a New Leader

Caller: Grayson (Aspiring leader)
Timestamps: 50:01–54:08

• Question: How do you know if you’re failing as a new leader?
• Leila’s Litmus Test:
  • Team performance is the primary measure.

    “The performance of your team that reports to you is a reflection of you as a leader.” (50:35)

  • Use self-reported feedback loops (through tools like CultureAmp or similar) for both output/results and team wellness.
  • Regular 1:1s with direct reports (30–60 mins weekly) are foundational to catching problems early.
  • Create culture where teams comfortably self-report wellbeing and results.

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11. Entering a New Industry: Diligence and Niche Services

Caller: Digital Marketing Agency Owner
Timestamps: 54:15–61:09

• Question: How to research and enter new industries? When to ask for referrals from new clients?
• Leila’s Approach:
  • Focus first on industries where you have relevant, transferable skills; extensively research new fields before committing.
  • Attend industry conferences, pay experienced consultants, and leverage learning directly from first clients.

    “You’re going to learn more working with the one that you have right now than you will talking to anybody.” (58:25)

  • On referrals:

    “After you’ve provided your first significant amount of value…when does that customer first experience value from the product or service you provide? At that point or right after, ask for a referral.” (59:29)

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Memorable Quotes

• "People should choose their boss, not a company." (52:50)
• "Authority transfer is not an event, it’s a process." (15:50)
• "If you treat people well and you reward them, you constantly talk to them, you give them attention, you pour into them, you invest in them…You will do just fine building a team." (32:10)
• "If you can incentivize them on things that requires acquiring the skill of being a better teammate, then you will…by consequence, raise the standard for all of them." (07:23)
• "Anyone can say they’ve got core values, but people will experience it when they're in your company." (11:49)

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Additional Highlights & Timestamps

• Balancing innovation and operational consistency: (47:12–49:51)
• Transparent communication around hiring and promotion: (38:15, 38:47)
• Leadership and burnout: Understanding reinforcements and recognition to prevent burnout in teams. (51:41–53:07)

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Actionable Takeaways

• Team incentives: Structure them to reinforce collaboration, not just individual or locality-based performance.
• Values: Articulate and reward behaviors that align with your values; ensure they're lived, not just stated.
• Transitioning authority: Treat it as a gradual process with ongoing advocacy, public endorsement, and staged withdrawal.
• Hiring: Research when to hire for skill vs. when you have time/capacity to train for culture.
• Vision: For small/early teams, pitch achievable mid-term goals; scale up vision with evidence.
• Leadership: Regular feedback and open communication are essential for tracking team health and performance.

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Tone and Style

Leila’s advice is pragmatic, empathetic, and no-nonsense. She never sugarcoats, but often offers nuance and context: “Take it with a grain of salt. If it’s not your vibe, that’s fine.” (23:26) There’s a strong emphasis on practical application, rooted in her own entrepreneurial journey, yet adaptable for listeners at all stages.

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This episode is packed with real leadership troubleshooting, making it a must-listen for anyone scaling a team, company, or self as a leader.

Transcript

[Layla]

I actually wanted to not do video this time. I feel like having a little bit more anonymity actually creates a better conversation.

[Alex]

If you have a question regarding anything

[Layla]

and all things leadership.

[Alex]

That's kind of what I wanted to focus on today specifically.

[Layla]

Then hopefully I can help with that.

[Alex]

Jennifer, can you hear me?

[Jennifer]

I can hear you. Can you hear me okay?

[Layla]

Absolutely. How's it going?

[Jennifer]

Awesome. I'm getting ready to start a new role and I've been listening to you for a long time and watching your videos and all those kinds of things and definitely feel like you are, you have helped my career thus far and so hopefully you can help me a little bit more.

[Layla]

Oh, well, I appreciate that. How can I help?

[Jennifer]

Yeah, so like I said, I'm getting ready to start a new role here soon with a nationwide non profit organization as a campaign development director. And this will be, this will be my first time leading multiple teams of this size. I've had other roles where I've led multiple teams in multiple locations. This particular role I'll be leading about five teams of between eight to 10 people each in five different markets. So each team is working on the same campaign but in five different markets. So just was curious what some of your maybe best practices are for leading, you know, multiple teams in multiple markets. How to motivate them, how to, you know, how to kind of help each team individually where their, their pain points may be and things like that.

[Alex]

Well, one, Congratulations.

[Layla]

That's freaking awesome. Uh, it sounds super exciting.

[Alex]

Yeah, that's crazy exciting. So what were you managing before this

[Layla]

in terms of like, was it one

[Alex]

team more so that you're managing and

[Layla]

now you've gone to like five?

[Jennifer]

Yeah, yeah. Well my, my most recent role was a very, very small team. So I was, I was manag besides myself, two other people. My role prior to that was as a general manager for a franchise and I was, I was leading three different locations there but they were all sort of in the same region.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And these are split up across two or three different states.

[Layla]

Oh, heard okay.

[Jennifer]

So yeah, remote, you know, that kind of thing too. So before I was, I was leading in person. So.

[Alex]

Yeah, super interesting.

[Layla]

So I think, well we actually have quite a few like in our portfolio companies that are set up in that way like you know, franchises or license or even actually corporate owned chains of

[Alex]

different businesses and that what I've seen

[Layla]

work best is that when you have multiple teams that you are leading that are in different locations is one, it's more important than ever that the leader of that team is stronger than you would be of normal if they were in the same area.

[Alex]

And the reason for that is often,

[Layla]

I don't know, are these brick and mortar locations or are they fully remote?

[Alex]

Because you're managing remotely.

[Layla]

But are they remote or are they brick and mortar?

[Jennifer]

No, they're fully remote. This is, this will be for nationwide nonprofit organizations.

[Alex]

Okay, that's much easier.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, basically each team will be. We'll be working on the same campaign, just in different markets.

[Alex]

Okay, that's much easier then. Okay, well, dude, I mean, in that case it's really just like, I don't think that that's terribly different except for does each of the locations. Do they have a leader in that pod?

[Layla]

So you have like five direct reports? Essentially, yes.

[Jennifer]

So there are, there's a manager for each team and then however many people below them, you know, doing the feet on the ground kind of work. And then I will be managing, essentially. Yeah, my direct reports will be those five managers. And so I will have the most contact with them, obviously. But I'm a servant leader. I definitely like to be involved as much as I can. So I'll be traveling to each of the markets at least once a month. So that will be some in person things as well. Then I want to get to know all of the team members. But yeah, I will be mainly, primarily focused on those five managers.

[Layla]

Yeah, that's great.

[Alex]

I mean, I don't think that if,

[Layla]

if they're not dealing with real estate and you're not dealing with like the laws per state, which obviously there's like some differences in like very little things like employment. But besides that, I think it's really just like them being across locations won't be too much of a difference for you. I think that getting them to act cohesively as a team of its own is probably a more challenging task. As in, like how do you get those five people to act as one team versus people that are leaders of their own individual teams.

[Jennifer]

Gotcha.

[Alex]

Okay, so it's where I've seen most companies where there's points of contention is where you don't have individual contributors on a team. I feel like a team of individual contributors tends to mesh pretty well versus a team of leaders where people have, there's more opinions, they have more experience,

[Layla]

typically used to more autonomy.

[Alex]

And when they have like some sort

[Layla]

of, I would say like a competitive edge. Right.

[Alex]

And so there's like a, in a sense they might feel like they're competing

[Layla]

against the other locations.

[Alex]

I think that's probably, probably where you're

[Layla]

going to find the biggest hurdle for yourself.

[Alex]

I think that you're, you know, given everything you're saying, it sounds like, and

[Layla]

even just looking, you have like EOS Integrator Level 10.

[Alex]

Like you're probably running a cadence with them. You probably know how to have the, the conversations, keep the one on ones,

[Layla]

do the quarterly reviews.

[Alex]

It's really just going to be, how

[Layla]

do you get them to be better teammates with each other?

[Jennifer]

Okay, so yeah, you mentioned like competition.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

So what I've done in the past with various, you know, kind of made it that healthy competition. But like, how do you balance that with what you're saying? You making sure that they are a cohesive team first?

[Alex]

Yeah, I, I think that rather than speaking, I think the best way to create, I guess you could say like healthy competition. I don't even know if I've used the term, but I would say like a cohesive team. How to make a cohesive team is to give them projects that require them

[Layla]

to work with another person to achieve.

[Alex]

So it's like we have to achieve X goal. And I think it's like chunking up your goals, which is like I wouldn't, I honestly would even not make the

[Layla]

goals specific to the locations or regions. And you can measure that on your own.

[Alex]

Right. But when you're speaking to those five

[Layla]

people, I would make the goals chunked up a level in terms of how

[Alex]

do you make goals that where they

[Layla]

have to work together and help each other, even teach each other things that

[Alex]

others might not know in order for

[Layla]

them all to achieve this goal together?

[Alex]

Which is like, say it's like total revenues or total profits or average revenues or average profits of X. And they, in order for them to

[Layla]

achieve that goal, they have to recruit the other four people to help you

[Alex]

see what I'm saying?

[Jennifer]

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that's something that I haven't really focused on in the past with multiple teams. So I'm excited to try that.

[Layla]

Yeah, I think that you'll like the

[Alex]

results because in, I think most organizations,

[Layla]

the levels where you have leaders on a team who have their own teams

[Alex]

beneath them tend to have the most contention. And I think a lot of it is because if you look at what are they incentivized to do, they're often

[Layla]

only incentivized on their area of expertise

[Alex]

and not on anything that's honestly, it's like, why would you expect them to be better teammates when you don't incentivize

[Layla]

them on anything that would require them to learn the skill of being a better teammate.

[Jennifer]

Oh, good point.

[Alex]

And if you can incentivize them on things that requires acquiring the skill of being a better teammate, then you will,

[Layla]

by consequence, raise the standard for all of them.

[Alex]

And I think that they will all

[Layla]

perform at a higher level in general.

[Jennifer]

Great. Thank you so much, Layla. I really appreciate it.

[Layla]

Absolutely. Jennifer, I hope you have a great day.

[Alex]

Hey, Joey, how's it going?

[Joey]

I'm doing wonderful. Yourself?

[Layla]

Good, good.

[Joey]

I'm saying thank you for having me up. And my question actually ties into the person in front. I become really interested in core values of companies and the power that they have to bring people together and really act as a tool for solving problems. And I'm wondering, given all the companies that you work with, where do you start looking at your core values? How do you use them? And I'm just wondering those sorts of questions.

[Alex]

So where do I use the core

[Layla]

values in terms of, like, on a daily basis?

[Joey]

Yes, that would actually be a great place.

[Alex]

When I think of core values, I think of

[Layla]

how you get things done.

[Alex]

So I think it's very interesting, actually.

[Layla]

So I was just reading a study the other day about, like, it had nothing to do with business and everything to do with psychology, which is like, people who set goals versus people who set behaviors. And I think many people have heard that. And so I look at the values as they drive behaviors, right?

[Alex]

People who value, let's say, sincere candor

[Layla]

or unimpeachable character exhibit these behaviors.

[Alex]

And so when I think of, like,

[Layla]

how do you distill those down?

[Alex]

It's like, okay, well, what do those

[Layla]

behaviors look like on a macro level in terms of, like, what decisions do we make as a business?

[Alex]

And then what do those behaviors look

[Layla]

like in terms of what. What we do on a quarterly basis, all the way down to what am I doing on a daily basis? How do I have this conversation? So, for example, you know, I can even give you an example today, you

[Alex]

know, I saw something that somebody did in the company that I didn't like. I have a value of sincere candor. But I also value praise over punishment,

[Layla]

which is like, I don't want to punish people.

[Alex]

So I'm like, okay, I have to

[Layla]

think more creatively about how I'm going to guide somebody in correcting their behavior

[Alex]

than I would if I were somebody

[Layla]

who only valued sincere candor and didn't give a shit about people's feelings.

[Alex]

And so I look at them more as, like, decision making.

[Layla]

Filters that we run our daily activities through to get us to be cohesive with the values that we represent.

[Alex]

Does that make sense?

[Joey]

Yes, absolutely. It's very much aligned with what I saw. I burnt out in January of 2022. And through that process, I heard the story from Navy seals who say they put everything in sets of three. Three, because you can remember it easier. And I took five core values I had and just reduced it down to three because I was so. I just was exhausted and burned. And what that did for me was allowed me to be able to. Because my core values are courage, curiosity, and belonging. And that process allowed me to really start to ask, how can I bring more courage to my day? More curiosity, more. More belonging.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Joey]

And that just allowed for bait, for baby steps.

[Alex]

Totally.

[Joey]

One of the things that I see really interesting is that, you know, there's, you know, a massive amount of leadership material out in the world, you know, saying, do this, do that, you know, plan this, and plan this. But there's not a lot of conversations that say, okay, let's go back to say, okay, what are our core values? How can we bring them more to this situation? Because I look at our core values as, like, when you're operating at your best, like, when you're totally kicking butt, like, that's when you're being all of your core values, you know, to the highest degree you can. So I'm wondering, like, why wouldn't you want to have that as many places as possible in your company?

[Layla]

You mean, like, why do most workplaces not do that?

[Joey]

Yeah. And. Oh, yeah, I've been. I've been trying to figure out how to put this in, because core values have a sense of, like, you know, they're kind of a hard thing to talk about because everyone's, like, really skeptical and don't believe in them because of all the bad experiences they've had.

[Alex]

Yeah, interesting. You know, I have never addressed that with people that maybe they've had bad experiences. I just speak to what I know,

[Layla]

which is, like, this is how I've built the companies.

[Alex]

It's been based on these values.

[Layla]

This is what ours are.

[Alex]

And then I allow them to just see it. And, you know, I think most people

[Layla]

come in skeptical, but they change their minds very quickly.

[Alex]

And so I think you just have to let the evidence speak for itself. You know, anyone can say they've got

[Layla]

core values, but people will experience it

[Alex]

when they're in your company. And so I think that you let.

[Layla]

You almost let the team speak for

[Alex]

you in terms of you know, the core values don't really matter if it's

[Layla]

just the leader preaching them, because then

[Alex]

you don't know how to disseminate them

[Layla]

down, then it's not really the values of the organization, it's the values of the leader.

[Alex]

And so I think it's like allowing

[Layla]

people to be immersed with the team and just experience it.

[Alex]

I think that's. That's one piece. I do think that most people don't use core values because if you look at like, where work originated from, work basically is like.

[Layla]

And I'm sorry, Joey, but like, there's some kind of static on your end, so it's really hard to hear.

[Alex]

I don't think that values were needed in the workplace when people, like, if

[Layla]

you really think about, like, the work

[Alex]

we do now versus when we were,

[Layla]

you know, like, doing manufacturing and like loading a supply chain, um, now we do, like, a lot more knowledge work, creative work, intellectual work.

[Alex]

And so I think that the reason

[Layla]

people say that you don't need those

[Alex]

things is they're probably stuck in an

[Layla]

older way of doing things that served what work was at that point in

[Alex]

time and probably doesn't serve what work

[Layla]

is at this point in time.

[Alex]

And so, you know, that's the only thing that I can think of also the second to that is that a lot of organizations have enough demand for workers that they don't need to treat them in a way that is ethical. And I know that sounds ridiculous to say, but it's true. Look at some of the biggest organizations out there. The reason that they don't need to

[Layla]

treat people well and act with, like, moral authority is because they have a line of thousands of people out the

[Alex]

door who are going to take that person's spot the moment they leave. And so because of that, what pressure does that organization feel besides social pressure? Like their social pressure, of course. But like a lot of the organizations, they're just looking at dollars and cents. And I think it's unfortunate and I hope it changes. But I do think that's the reality

[Layla]

of why a lot of places don't.

[Alex]

Don't align on a set of values they would like to, you know, exemplify

[Layla]

and don't actually abide by them.

[Joey]

Yeah, yeah, I would agree. And the interesting part is it's actually probably costing them money not to, because if they're not operating at their best, then it's wasting time and money.

[Grayson]

And.

[Joey]

And I'm gonna share this one thing and I'll go. Something that has been really interesting is I Don't know if you've ever done this, but have you ever asked people, like, what core values mean to them? Because I find that oftentimes the core values mean something very different to different people. And it just makes for a really interesting kind of connection building conversation. So I just share that. Cause that's been something really. It's been fun and interesting for me.

[Layla]

Yeah, Love it. I think it's a great idea.

[Joey]

Thank you very much. And you have a wonderful day.

[Alex]

You too.

[Layla]

Bye. Joey. Romy, I'm gonna pull you up.

[Romy]

Hey, Leila, how are you doing today?

[Alex]

Hey.

[Layla]

Good. How are you doing?

[Romy]

I'm doing awesome. Thanks so much for having us.

[Layla]

Oh, absolutely.

[Alex]

So what's up?

[Romy]

So I'm a co founder of Dance on the Edge and we produce in person Latin dance events and outdoor locations get tourists out and of traffic to places that normally don't have dance.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Super cool.

[Romy]

I've been the event. Thank you. I've been the event manager of this for years. And we recently had a new team member come in and take over the management of the events. But I'm noticing that my old contacts, when he's working with them, they always ask for me to be the final decision maker. And so it kind of slows down his process. And I was wondering, how do you set up new team members so that they're the authority figure in their domain and where you're kind of staying away from it, but you still make sure that they're staying on track?

[Alex]

Well, I would ask first, is he

[Layla]

as good as you?

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Okay.

[Romy]

Very good.

[Alex]

That's great. I think a lot of the times in that situation, because the first would

[Layla]

be like, okay, was this person performing at the same level? If not, like, let's figure out what it is.

[Alex]

Because what it is is that when someone else is asking for you, it's

[Layla]

like there's something that you were giving them that they no longer are getting.

[Alex]

And often then they want to ask. The second is that I think in those situations, it's not an event that occurs, it's a process. So when somebody is.

[Layla]

If you're transferring authority to somebody else, you truly have to transfer it.

[Alex]

You don't just like decide, today is

[Layla]

the day that now this new person has authority.

[Alex]

You have to sell that other person

[Layla]

on the other side on why that person has authority.

[Alex]

And so I look at it more as, like, for example, with our portfolio

[Layla]

companies, when, when we first start acquisition.com,

[Alex]

i was directly talking to all of

[Layla]

the CEOs every day.

[Alex]

And Then I brought somebody in as

[Layla]

an executive to lead the portfolio on

[Alex]

a day to day basis. And I had to.

[Layla]

Not. Not even, but, like, it even started before that person came in.

[Alex]

I was like, guys, I got to

[Layla]

tell you, I'm so excited. I've got this guy. Here's who he is, here's his experience.

[Alex]

Here's why I'm so excited. He's going to come in, he's going

[Layla]

to do all this.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

That.

[Alex]

And then I made it sound like I just sucked. I was like, I'm not doing any of this.

[Layla]

He's going to do all this, and

[Alex]

here's what he's going to do for you. And so before he even came on, I was positioning him as taking authority. And then when he came on first, it was.

[Layla]

It was.

[Alex]

I was there and I was leading

[Layla]

as normal, and he was watching.

[Alex]

Then I would lead with him.

[Layla]

So we would both kind of lead conversations and calls.

[Alex]

And then eventually he was leading, and all I was doing is I was

[Layla]

edifying him in front of everybody.

[Alex]

So, you know whether if it's on

[Layla]

a zoom call, it's like in the chat, I'm like, this is so spot on.

[Alex]

So good.

[Layla]

Love it.

[Alex]

Great idea. And so that they could see that I completely am advocating for this person

[Layla]

and believe that they have authority.

[Alex]

And then eventually I phase myself out of those calls. And so I have found that by

[Layla]

doing that, there's been, like, a very

[Alex]

small gap in terms of people feeling like they need to come to me for authority instead. I think that most of the times when authority isn't transferred, it's because it's

[Layla]

like, it's a very, like, cut and dry event.

[Alex]

And there's logical and then there's psychological, and that's logical, but it's not psychological.

[Layla]

It's not how people.

[Alex]

That's not how their brains are going to adapt to the situation. So I think that we have to play to that, which is like, they need a process and a slow change

[Layla]

of event rather than like, one day it changes over.

[Alex]

Does that make sense?

[Romy]

That makes absolute sense. Thank you so much. All I did was, hey, he's a new manager. Talk to him. And everything you're saying is like, I didn't do anything. I didn't set him up to succeed in that instance. So thank you so much on that.

[Layla]

Oh, absolutely. Well, I am glad that that was solved then.

[Romy]

Thank you.

[Layla]

All right, thanks, Romy.

[Adriana]

Hello?

[Alex]

Hey, can you hear me?

[Jennifer (Bookkeeping Business Owner)]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Thank you. Layla, I've been watching your YouTube channel. I run a bookkeeping business with my husband, and we just won the an amazing award in our industry. And so we're growing like crazy. And I'm stuck. I'm just thinking, how do I build like a dream team to take this forward? Because I'm kind of with the technical requirements I need for the roles that I need. I'm kind of choosing between do I hire someone who has more of, like, a positive attitude, or like someone I think I can get along with better and has less skills? Or do I go with someone who has more skills better but maybe I don't get along with them as much?

[Alex]

Well, I guess my question would be

[Layla]

there's a few things that I'll give you this to think with. Okay. One, how fast is the organization growing

[Alex]

and is the opportunity, the rate at

[Layla]

which the opportunity is exposing itself to

[Alex]

you, outpacing how quickly you could train

[Layla]

somebody who didn't have the experience?

[Alex]

Because I think that in many cases, if you have the experience to train people up, then finding people who have the values is a big advantage because it also shows higher rates of retention amongst employees. If the more that we train them, and they often will be able to

[Layla]

do it more in line with how you want it done.

[Alex]

So in a lot of situations where

[Layla]

you have the skill, you have the ability to train them, and you have

[Alex]

the time to train them, then that makes sense.

[Layla]

The next question is, does the business have the time for you to train them? Can you wait.

[Alex]

How long will it take to get this person trained up? Can you wait six months to have

[Layla]

a fully operating bookkeeper?

[Alex]

Can you wait eight months, like, however long it takes? And so those are the things that I'm thinking through. On the other side, I would say

[Layla]

that if I don't have time and

[Alex]

I don't have skill to train somebody, I would bring somebody in who does

[Layla]

have already have the skill.

[Alex]

And then I would. I mean, I wouldn't even say that

[Layla]

I would compromise on, like, culture or liking them.

[Alex]

I would say that it's just harder

[Layla]

to find them, and therefore, it requires a higher level of recruiting. You might have to, like, engage with a firm or learn a little bit more and, like, hone in on recruiting skills to find that person.

[Alex]

Does that make sense?

[Jennifer (Bookkeeping Business Owner)]

Yes, it does. And I've also. It's just. With me, I've also watched your video about, like, hiring an assistant. And so that's what I'm trying to do now as well, like, free up my time and thank you so much. This has been like, so Valuable what you've told me.

[Layla]

Oh, great. Well, I'm glad. And good luck with everything and congratulations.

[Jennifer (Bookkeeping Business Owner)]

Thank you so much.

[Layla]

Okay, have a good one. Hey, how's it going?

[Candace]

There we go. It's great to be here. Thanks for taking questions today.

[Layla]

Absolutely.

[Candace]

So my question is about vision and I'll give you a quick little overview to give you some context.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Candace]

So I'm the CEO of Organic Radiance Skincare and we help people with sensitive skin to reduce redness and calm their skin with calming skincare products.

[Grayson]

Cool.

[Candace]

And I've read both of Alex's books and they've helped a lot.

[Layla]

Oh, great.

[Candace]

And I'm really passionate about changing the way we think about skincare, that it's not just about, about beauty and the way we look. I want to take it to beyond that into more of a self care ritual or like a mindfulness ritual to help people de stress because people really need that these days. So I, and I also like to encourage a holistic approach to skin care because there is such a connection between the skin and the signs that it shows and people's overall health. So let's see. I want to bring skincare into more of like a self care and health care type of just changing the way people think about skincare routines so that I can help people be, you know, go on a healthcare journey, be more compassionate with themselves and build people's confidence. That's what I'm really passionate about. So now my question for you is as a leader, how do you rally and motivate your team around your vision so that we can all attract the right customers?

[Alex]

How big is your company right now?

[Candace]

It's small. We have a three person team.

[Alex]

I think that the vision can scale over time, but I think that when you're smaller and you're first starting out, if you have this vision of like, here's how I'm going to completely change the industry. I think that it will attract some people, it will also deter some people because I think that what I have noticed and this is just like my personal opinion.

[Layla]

So you know, like, take it, take it with a grain of salt. If it's not your vibe, that's fine.

[Alex]

I don't think that if I had started gym launch and said like, I'm

[Layla]

going to build a company that's going

[Alex]

to change the entire industry. If I had said on day one and where it's like me, Alex and an assistant, I feel like people would have been, this lady's cracked out, you

[Layla]

know what I mean? Like they would have been like, they'd be like, okay, and you're what, 23?

[Alex]

And so instead I feel like what I did over time was I inched my way towards that greater vision as I realized that there was more evidence to support that it was possible because

[Layla]

I got more people on board, we

[Alex]

had more customers, we had more revenue. And so I think that even the vision that you cast in the beginning, I think that you can think of like, what is something possible, like what's a great vision for three years from now, Candace? And it doesn't even need to be

[Layla]

there, your 10 year vision, but what is your three year vision?

[Alex]

That is something that's close enough that people can see it and they can

[Layla]

believe that it could happen.

[Alex]

Because more than anything, I think that

[Layla]

when I hear and I talk to a lot of people who don't take

[Alex]

jobs, and when they don't take jobs, a huge reason as well is like, I just don't think they can achieve that vision. And I'm like, they completely over pitched it because that's more of like a 10 year vision versus a 3 year or a 5 year vision. And if there's not evidence to support it, it's hard to recruit talent to help unless you have a track record.

[Layla]

You've started and sold a company before, you've gotten some like crazy in with

[Alex]

an investor who's put in $300 million. Like, there has to be evidence to

[Layla]

support that great vision.

[Alex]

And so if there's not, I think that paring it down in a way that is more comprehensive for people in

[Layla]

the short term is not a bad idea.

[Alex]

And I think that some people might

[Layla]

be like, this is stupid and what

[Alex]

she's saying is wrong and that's fine.

[Layla]

But evidence would support otherwise for me, which is that the more that you

[Alex]

can pare it down and make it

[Layla]

sound reasonable and like you can actually

[Alex]

achieve it, I actually do think that that is better in the beginning. And as you gain more evidence, you can fit into and like fill out the shoes for that greater vision. Does that make sense?

[Candace]

Absolutely. So let me ask you this. I wanted to bring skin care to a deeper level because I used to work for the maker of Botox, I come from pharma, and I wanted it to be more than just about, you know, like OC housewives and yeah, skin deep. So because I used to live in Huntington beach and it was all about that. So what do you think about taking it deeper? Do you think that like, I understand that beauty is a huge driver for Multi billion dollar industries. Do you think it's trying to, to change human nature?

[Alex]

I think that you will get a subset of the market.

[Layla]

I think that you will limit yourself.

[Alex]

And the first thing I thought when

[Layla]

you said that is why can't you do both? Like I specifically, right, I want to look good. Like there's nothing wrong with that.

[Alex]

I also want to have healthy skin and like, I vibe with your vision.

[Layla]

I also vibe with like, I want to look presentable. Right.

[Alex]

And so I think that the reality is that I do think until women

[Layla]

are not valued and this is just like, listen, I'm not saying that the world is fair and this is like, right. But like women a lot of values placed on how they look.

[Alex]

So I think that in terms of

[Layla]

what you're selling, women care about what they look. They will stop caring about what they look like when people stop caring about how women look. Which means men would have to not care about how attractive a woman is to marry them, which is not gonna happen.

[Alex]

So. Right. So I think that there's this great place in the middle which is like, can you do both? Because like, do you care what you look like?

[Candace]

Absolutely.

[Alex]

Right? So like, I don't think that you can.

[Layla]

You need to exclude women who want

[Alex]

to buy skin care because of what they look like. But I think that you can speak to a greater mission of can we

[Layla]

bridge the gap between the two, which

[Alex]

is like, can we take care of our skin and look good? I can tell you that I have a hair girl girl and she, the way that she does my hair is one in which like it's health based first, but it turns out looking awesome. And so I'm like, this is great because my hair is growing, but it also looks great.

[Layla]

It's also healthy and strong.

[Alex]

So it's like, I feel like that's a great way so. Because then you're not excluding because what happens is when you focus on just like the health of your skin, what you don't realize you're actually excluding a

[Layla]

lot of the market who wants both

[Alex]

because they think, oh, just like all

[Layla]

you care about is a healthier skin. No way that's going to make me look better.

[Alex]

And by saying that you focus on the health of the skin, their mind is going to go to, oh, they, it's not going to make my skin

[Layla]

look better, but it will be good for it. And so a lot of women are going to just go use something else in my opinion.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Alex]

I think that you could find a

[Layla]

really great vision in the middle where you talk about bridging the gap between both, like, you don't have to choose one or the other.

[Candace]

I. I like that a lot. That's really valuable.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Alex]

Just shooting.

[Candace]

Thanks for your time today. I really appreciate it.

[Alex]

Hi there, Layla. Can you hear me?

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Alex]

How's it going?

[Adriana]

It's going good. How are you doing?

[Alex]

Fantastic.

[Adriana]

Awesome. So, yeah, My name is Adriana. I'm one of the co founders at Ongoing, and we power shopify stores with subscriptions and ongoing payments. And right now, my husband and I are the ones running this company, so we're definitely grinding, and we have built a previous software company, so we're going through an acquisition right now to be all in so that we can focus all in on Ongoing. So we are going through the process right now of hiring our first team.

[Jennifer (Bookkeeping Business Owner)]

And.

[Adriana]

And of course, you know, I've been listening to you, and I think, you know, all of your strategies are just incredibly insightful and powerful. So my question for you is, you know, if you could go back in time, what advice would you have given yourself about building your first team?

[Alex]

If I had to go back in

[Layla]

time, what advice would I give myself about building my first team?

[Alex]

I think that

[Layla]

when you're building your first team, there's a lot of advice

[Alex]

about hire people with experience or hire

[Layla]

people that are culture fits. And I think a lot of people

[Alex]

tend to sway one way or the other. And I think that the reality is,

[Layla]

is that it really depends on the role.

[Alex]

And I think that when you're first

[Layla]

starting a team, you're just looking for someone to tell you, like, what do

[Alex]

I need to do? And the reality is, I think it

[Layla]

requires a little more thought than that. It's being strategic about what roles do I have no effing clue what they require or how to do them that

[Alex]

I need to hire for experience. And then on the other side, what

[Layla]

roles do I have all the training in the world on? I'm actually like, it's my complete strength, and I feel very comfortable training people on.

[Alex]

And then can I find people that are culture fits that I can train

[Layla]

up in those roles?

[Alex]

And so I think that's the first piece because it's very painful if you

[Layla]

go one way or the other, because

[Alex]

I think that's like separate sides of the pendulum. It's like on one side, you're training

[Layla]

everybody all the time, and you have no time to do your job as the co founder.

[Alex]

On the other side, you have all

[Layla]

of these people that are bringing in

[Alex]

all this outside experience.

[Layla]

But it's almost like at a point like it becomes too many competing opinions

[Alex]

and points of views.

[Layla]

And so it's like you need a good mix of both, I think, in order to build a strong team.

[Alex]

And so I think that that's probably what I would have done differently. I think I swayed between like in the beginning I trained everybody myself and

[Layla]

I had no time to actually like lead the company.

[Alex]

And then I went towards like hiring everybody from the outside and then it was like a lot of competing opinions

[Layla]

and less cohesion of the culture.

[Alex]

And I think that the reality is you want a mix of both and

[Layla]

it is truly dependent on you and

[Alex]

your co founder skill sets.

[Layla]

You know, like, what do you bring into the organization? Where are you strong and where you're not strong. Hire the experience where you are strong.

[Alex]

Bring people in that you can train to be your successors. And I think that if you can do that, I think that is a big piece. I think the second piece I would say is that I think it's a lot more simple than people make it out to be. I think that people over complicate having a team with like, I don't know, there's always like hacks on LinkedIn.

[Layla]

I like, makes me want to kill myself.

[Alex]

It's like, this is how you can do this and you get 3% this and all this. And I'm like, if you treat people well and you reward them, you constantly

[Layla]

talk to them, you give them attention, you pour into them, you invest in them.

[Alex]

Like, how would you treat a friend?

[Layla]

How would you treat. Actually I shouldn't say that because people treat their friends, but like how would

[Alex]

you treat somebody who you, who inspired

[Layla]

you, who you liked, who you wanted to have a relationship with? It's like treat your team that way.

[Alex]

And so I think if you have,

[Layla]

you know, any natural inclination towards like already wanting to treat people well, I think that you will do just fine building a team.

[Alex]

I think that where people need all the hacks and, and tactics and things is when their natural inclination is to

[Layla]

avoid people and not talk to people and work in the dark. Right.

[Alex]

And so I think if you naturally have the inclination towards people, you like

[Layla]

people, you like talking to people, you like making sure that you can help

[Alex]

people, then I think that this will actually not be too hard.

[Candace]

Got it?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Adriana]

That is actually really valuable advice. And yeah, we definitely do want to build strong relationships and you know, make sure that people feel included in the vision.

[Raquel]

So I.

[Adriana]

That really does speak to me.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Adriana]

Thank you so much. This is Incredibly valuable, and I really feel honored to be able to speak to you. So thank you so much for taking the time to take questions today.

[Layla]

Of course. Well, I hope everything goes well, closing the deal, and good luck on your new endeavor.

[Adriana]

Thank you so much.

[Layla]

All right, bye. Adriana.

[Alex]

Hey.

[Layla]

How's it going?

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

Oh, it's going well.

[Jennifer]

Going well.

[Grayson]

You?

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

I've been listening, so. Sounds like it.

[Layla]

Awesome. Yeah, no, I think it's been going well. Besides me just not clicking the right buttons, so I think we're doing okay.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Yes.

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

Well, my. I guess, context for me. We're in the second year of a startup company. We do staffing and recruiting and contracting, and we've. We've grown tremendously. We're gonna do between 3 and probably 4.5 this year to see how Q4 goes. And I don't have any managers in place. I've got seven recruiters, four sales reps. Oh, wow. And a finance person. And I'm at the cusp of, you know, running around like a chicken with

[Layla]

my head cut off and.

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

Yeah, you know, do I promote from within? How do I know if I do and. Or hire a sales manager from the outside? What would your thought process be for, you know, promoting or hiring from the outside?

[Layla]

Do you have anybody internally who, if their resume came across your desk, you would say, this person could definitely be our sales manager?

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

Not based off the resume. No. I basically farmed and groomed everyone from, like, fresh out of school.

[Layla]

Do you.

[Alex]

Are you strong in sales?

[Layla]

I'm guessing yes.

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

Yeah, I am.

[Layla]

Do you have time to train somebody up?

[Alex]

So if you have somebody. Do you have anyone on the team who has the potential, if you trained

[Layla]

them to be sales manager and it would be in line with their career goals?

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

I believe I do have the time. I've never trained another sales manager before, so the training portion would be new. I've been a sales manager before at my previous company, so does that give a little bit more context?

[Alex]

Yeah, I don't think that there's a

[Layla]

right or a wrong.

[Alex]

I think that the question is, do

[Layla]

you have somebody internally who I would say wants the role, has the skills, enough of the base level skills that training them up wouldn't be painful? Then you could do that. It will take a lot of your time, and that person likely won't have more skill than you have in the next 12 to 24 months?

[Alex]

On the other hand, if you were

[Layla]

to hire somebody from the outside, what

[Alex]

they would probably bring to the table

[Layla]

is you could hire somebody who has more skill. Than you in that area, which can be great depending on like right now.

[Alex]

Like, I actually, I semi lean towards

[Layla]

that one, honestly, just because of how the situation describing it just sounds like in general you need a little bit of relief and it wouldn't hurt to have somebody who has maybe even more experience than you in that area come in because I think it would just immensely relieve you.

[Alex]

Now, I don't think there's a right or wrong. I do think that a lot of sales people don't make it into sales management not because they don't have the

[Layla]

skill or the desire, but because the reinforcement cycle is too long.

[Alex]

So.

[Layla]

So in sales, they get rewarded on, you know, when they close the sale, however long that sales cycle is.

[Alex]

Now you go into being a sales manager and all that reinforcements taken away.

[Layla]

You basically have to get reinforcement through the team making sales. And a lot of people just say, I don't like it as much because it's not as exciting or I don't,

[Alex]

you know, it's not as. They don't know how to describe it,

[Layla]

but it's really just you have less reinforcement than you did as a salesperson. And so it almost feels like they have something taken away rather than they're gaining something. So I feel like the transition's a little tough, and that's why I do think I've seen it work less times

[Alex]

than it has worked. It does.

[Layla]

It definitely has worked in companies, but it's worked less than it has.

[Alex]

So because of that and just the fact you said you're running around with

[Layla]

your head cut off, I feel like

[Alex]

bringing somebody in as a leader from

[Layla]

the outside who can not even just take the job, but also like, teach you things and add value to the organization in ways that maybe you haven't thought of.

[Alex]

I feel like given where you're at

[Layla]

with your revenue, that's not a bad idea.

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

No, that's solid advice. And so if I went that route, I'm assuming I'll have to start communicating that to the team. Earlier on, you know, maybe I've given false impression of, you know, hey, we're going to promote you guys and all that. So how would you dialogue, you know, to the sales team of, hey, I'm going to start looking outside, looking to bring someone in as a sales manager because, you know, people see job posts, you know, for your company, I'm sure you can't really hide it per se. So how would you. How would you dialogue that out? Or, you know, would you just tell them straight up or warm them Up. How would you break it to the team?

[Alex]

I would 100% tell them straight up.

[Layla]

And I would explain exactly why, which is I want to go bring somebody in to be sales manager.

[Alex]

I would like somebody who has more

[Layla]

experience as sales manager than I do

[Alex]

and who has experience in these areas.

[Layla]

Here's the requirements of what I'm looking for. Here's the skills I'm looking for. You are welcome to apply. If you don't have the skills and requirements that I'm looking for, I will turn you down just like another candidate.

[Alex]

That's how I would message them. And I would say, like, listen, the reason that I need to do this

[Layla]

is because it's what's best for the business.

[Alex]

And at the end of the day,

[Layla]

the business feeds all of us. So if the business doesn't eat, we all don't eat.

[Alex]

And making the wrong decision in this area is going to be make everyone's

[Layla]

lives worse, not better.

[Alex]

And so at the end of the day, the business. To make the business function to the best of its ability. It makes the most sense strategically that we hire somebody who has outside experience. And you could even tell them, dude, like, I'd be like, I am overwhelmed. I need somebody who has experience to

[Layla]

come in and help me.

[Alex]

And it's not that I don't think

[Layla]

that anyone here has the capability, but

[Alex]

I don't know if we have the time. And I.

[Layla]

The truth is, dude, if somebody doesn't get that they don't have the skills to be the leader, because a true leader will sacrifice what is best for them for what is best for the company.

[Alex]

Every leader on my team consistently does that. And if somebody, I've had it where I post for a job and somebody

[Layla]

from like, you know, a lower level

[Alex]

position says, like, hey, I'd like that job.

[Layla]

And I'm like, it's very clear why you don't have the fit the requirements. Here's why. And here's why I don't have time. And if they fight back and they're

[Alex]

like, that's not fair. I'm like, this is more reason as

[Layla]

to why you're not going to be promoted and why.

[Alex]

Like, it's not that I don't think

[Layla]

you could get there, but I don't have a year.

[Alex]

And so I think there is also room for salespeople to ascend in an organization into roles that are not management, like a sales lead or a sales coach. And so I do think that that as a, like, as an aside, I think that a lot of Salespeople do better ascending into a sales leader, a sales coach, where they help with scripting.

[Layla]

Objection.

[Alex]

Overcomes call reviews with the team game, tape reviews. Rather than managing the CRM, like hiring

[Layla]

and recruiting, firing, you know, managing the meeting cadence, like doing all that stuff.

[Guest (Staffing Company Owner)]

That is great advice. I. I really, really appreciate it. So, yeah, I wish you would have started a staffing company so I can see how you would have done it. I know you wanted to.

[Layla]

I do like staffing, so.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Well.

[Layla]

Cool.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Layla]

I hope everything goes great. Dude.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Hey, Layla. How are you?

[Layla]

Good. How's it going?

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

It's good, it's good. It's been a. Been an anxious await.

[Alex]

An anxious await.

[Layla]

All right, well, what's your question now? I'm anxiously awaiting. Yeah.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

First of all, definitely appreciate your content. I know, me and many of my industry friends in the Twitter side love your content.

[Layla]

Super helpful, really. Twitter?

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Yeah. We come from the small. The small land of the Twitter sphere.

[Grayson]

Okay.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

This has been coming up as I try to scale to seven figures for context. I run a Twitter ghostwriting agency doing around 50k a month with a team of four, including myself. And I have a bit of a military background. I was a team leader in the National Guard. And it was just. It was a lot easier because we had, like, a clear rank structure, is, you know, ingrained discipline is, in person, all that stuff.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

So my question. My question is really, how do you balance being friendly with a small team? Kind of. We're all similar ages. I'm 25. They're all like, between 21 and 23. You know, they're a few years younger. We can joke around, like, I genuinely could be friends with them, but also staying disciplined, accountable, you know, KPI, mission driven and all those things, because I have ambitiously, ambitious goals for the company. So I'm just curious how you'd handle that, that balance.

[Alex]

Well, I would say that I don't

[Layla]

see the problem being, like, okay, I'll give you some, like, of my thoughts and then just, like, talk through the situation more. I think that being a teammate is easy, even in many ways. And you might know this if you have, like, a military background. I think it is deeper than being a friend. I think that it is a more meaningful relationship because often you are driving towards a goal together.

[Alex]

And I think that a lot.

[Layla]

That's why a lot of people end up being, quote, friends at work. Because if you can be a teammate with somebody, I think it makes it easier to be a friend with them. You go through, like, hard times together. You Achieve hard goals, you face challenges.

[Alex]

And so I think that it makes

[Layla]

a lot of sense that people would become friends with people that they are good teammates with.

[Alex]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. When I think it becomes a problem,

[Layla]

and I would ask you, where is

[Alex]

this showing up that you would consider a problem? Is when we feel an affinity towards

[Layla]

somebody, and because of that, we don't give them the proper coaching feedback or treatment that we would if we didn't have such an affinity towards them. So when it starts to cloud judgment is when I feel that is a problem. If it doesn't cloud judgment, I don't see it as a problem.

[Alex]

Because the question is like, okay, well,

[Layla]

if we're friends with people and nothing is happening, then is that a problem? I would say no. I'd say that's great. It'd be great to work with people you're friends with all the time and actually get done. But if you're not able to get

[Alex]

done and they are not, you know,

[Layla]

I would say maybe they are not upholding your standards because they see you as more of a friend.

[Alex]

I would consider that to be a,

[Layla]

quote, problem that would need to be addressed. Okay.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

It's.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

It's interesting because it's more of a gray area where sometimes I can feel myself being perhaps, you know, 1% nicer, and I might not get my point across on our. On our team huddle that day because I'm feeling, like, a bit friendlier and sometimes I feel like I miss that. And it might take two meetings to get my point across where, like, if there's an attention to detail missing or something like that. So I. I feel it creeping. I'm just trying to get ahead of the problem.

[Alex]

I think being cognizant of it is the first step. And I would say, like, in what capacity are you friends with them?

[Layla]

Like, are you, like, going out and like, doing stuff with them on the weekend nights? Are you taking them to dinner?

[Alex]

Are you like.

[Layla]

Like, what does it look like right now?

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Yeah, it's definitely not that we're not even in the same region of the world at the moment. It's more so just like, I. We can spend the first five, 10 minutes of a meeting joking around. You know, we reply to each other on social media. Like, we all. We all have the same interests. So there's definitely a lot of cohesion there. And like, you said that, you know, to an extent that's a good thing, but it's definitely not you know, crossing a line.

[Alex]

So has anything not happened in the

[Layla]

business that you want to have happen because of it?

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

I'd say there's been like little Mrs. Attention to Detail. And as a, you know, as a ghostwriting agency, it's like thing little things matter, like, you know, spelling, for example, or deadlines and stuff like that. So I'd say those are the little, those little things.

[Alex]

Do we have a process in place

[Layla]

that clearly states like a sop of how to double check their work before publishing?

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Yes and no. I think it could be clearer because

[Alex]

I might even just start there.

[Layla]

More than like thinking it's because you're friendly with them. Is it might be like, do we actually have a clear process? Because I think, you know, something I was talking to my friend about this morning. He was like, people can do a 10 out of 10 in their job, but you may not have outlined what the job is to the best of your ability. Therefore, you set them up for failure. You say you didn't do the job, and they're like, well, this is the job that has been given to me. And the instructions I've been given, it's like, well, they're instructions. Yeah, that's fair.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

That's something I want to dive into today. I appreciate it.

[Alex]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Layla]

And we all do that.

[Alex]

So I think it's like, try to figure out, is it the instructions? If it's not the instructions, then maybe

[Layla]

just desensitizing them to more candid conversations with you.

[Guest (Twitter Ghostwriting Agency Owner)]

Perfect. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Layla]

Yeah, have a good one.

[Alex]

Marcos.

[Raquel]

Hey, can you hear me?

[Layla]

Yes, I can. Raquel. How's it going?

[Raquel]

Good. When you were talking about SOPs and systems and processes, this is. Marcos, I was like high fiving you.

[Layla]

Yeah. A fractional COO makes sense.

[Raquel]

Yeah. So as a fractional COO and integrator for companies who run on eos, something that I've seen helping companies scale with systems, processes and people is companies, especially visionaries, they want this idea of continued innovation. But at the same time, my job is organizational stability. So a lot of times when I put systems processes in place,

[Alex]

the leadership

[Raquel]

team can want to say, hey, let's be innovative and change those things. And so how do you handle that and not cause your leadership team whiplash?

[Alex]

I would say that there's a difference between permanently changing something and testing something

[Layla]

to find out if it works better.

[Alex]

And what it sounds like to me is I think that for a lot

[Layla]

of visionary leaders, they need to have room to test at all points in times.

[Alex]

And I Do think that it is

[Layla]

an operator's like, it's in the best

[Alex]

interest of the company that we operationalize that. How do we make sure that we're constantly testing against our assumptions of what works best for the business, against what

[Layla]

we see changing in the market, against.

[Alex]

And I think that we have to

[Layla]

create an environment in which we can test those things.

[Alex]

I think that what happens is like the word test and change get conflated and then people say, we want to change. You know, the visionary says, I want to do this to change this. And it's like, okay, but do you

[Layla]

actually want to change it if it doesn't work better? And I'm sure they're going to say, well, no, it's like, okay, so we

[Alex]

want to test this one.

[Layla]

We don't want to change it.

[Alex]

You see what I'm saying?

[Raquel]

Yeah, that's a. Yeah, that's a really good terminology. And specifically with team members, because that's where I come in.

[Candace]

Right.

[Raquel]

I'm like the middleman between team members. And I don't. When you say change to team member, it's very distraught. Like, what, we're changing something again?

[Alex]

Right.

[Raquel]

So testing, I think is that's, that's a really good one I'm going to keep in my pocket. Yeah, I appreciate that.

[Layla]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Alex]

And I'll just give you an example just to.

[Layla]

To if it helps more. It's like, you know, from next quarter for acquisition.com, i was literally just going over like, okay, what are our. And I don't use eos. I made up my own system, which I call like a vfo. But like, what are a vital few objectives for the year and have they changed?

[Alex]

And then I was like, okay, well, I have one that is it basically it's a test. And if this test proves out to

[Layla]

be better than current standard or status quo, then I would change more things.

[Alex]

But first, this quarter, I want to test this. So one of my objectives will be

[Layla]

like, all the other ones are more improvement objectives.

[Alex]

And then I have one objective that

[Layla]

is a test objective that could lead to a change objective that makes sense.

[Alex]

But I do think that the best way that you can mitigate any of

[Layla]

that, like, whiplash is just by, like, we don't change anything.

[Alex]

We test and then decide if we're going to change.

[Raquel]

I love that process. Yeah.

[Alex]

And I think that's a win win for everybody because they want to know if the idea works or not.

[Layla]

And they don't want to have to wait forever.

[Alex]

And you want to make sure that the business still functions and can keep

[Layla]

improving in the areas it needs to so it can be effective and, you know, continue operating.

[Alex]

And so I think that's a good middle ground.

[Raquel]

I agree. Well, I appreciate that insight. I'm definitely keeping that in my pocket.

[Alex]

Absolutely.

[Layla]

Well, have a great one, Raquel.

[Alex]

You too. Thanks.

[Raquel]

Hila.

[Layla]

See ya.

[Grayson]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[Layla]

That was a great reaction. What's up, Grayson? Hey.

[Grayson]

Not much. I'm doing well. So what I was asking about was, as a new leader with zero leadership experience, how do I catch that I failed my team?

[Layla]

How do you know if you have

[Alex]

failed your team as a new leader?

[Grayson]

I mean, how do I catch the mistakes? What are the signs? And I expect that there's a problem of maybe I didn't set up a way for my team to give feedback comfortably.

[Alex]

I would say that the performance of

[Layla]

your team that reports to you is a reflection of you as a leader. So how is your current team performing? Are they meeting their performance objectives? That is how I would measure the effectiveness of the leader. Like, if I take you and put you over my team, do they perform better or worse? If you leave your team and put

[Alex]

somebody else in who's a more experienced

[Layla]

leader, do they perform better or worse?

[Alex]

And I think that's how you would

[Layla]

measure your own performance is honestly by the performance of everybody underneath of you. Yeah.

[Grayson]

Yeah, that makes sense. I think I'd rephrase it a little bit.

[Layla]

Okay.

[Grayson]

I want to make sure that my team and each team member is getting what they need and that I'm not negatively affecting their performance. So what do I look for in an employee or in a team team member who doesn't have an obvious sign that they're failing, but maybe it's like I'm contributing to their burnout or something like that.

[Layla]

Can you give me an example of something that might be happening right now?

[Grayson]

No, I don't have a team. I just expect to have one in the future.

[Layla]

Yeah, that's funny. I think that, like, even burnout on its own, like, burnout is usually people are working and getting no reinforcement or reward for their work, and then they start to say they're burnt out. Like, they have more negatives than positives, and that leads to burnout. At least that's the way that I've been able to operationalize it. Um, I think as a leader, when you have a team, you know, keeping

[Alex]

regular one on one cadence. I have no.

[Layla]

I've seen a million studies on different, like, one on one setups, cadences, ways of Communicating. You know, I've seen that having 30 minutes every week with my direct reports tends to be the best way of doing flexes during. In different times. Sometimes we even talk more and I make it an hour a week. It just depends. But I do think that the more time that you spend with your team, I would argue that almost all performance can be tied back to their boss.

[Alex]

And so I think people choose should

[Layla]

choose their boss, not a company.

[Alex]

And I think that if somebody's feeling

[Layla]

burnt out, maybe their leader is not recognizing them. If somebody is not performing, has the leader given clear KPIs? I mean, honestly, man, it's like a. You could write 20 books on all the things that go into leadership. So it's hard to pinpoint just one.

[Alex]

But I think if you have proper

[Layla]

measurement in place when you do get a team in terms of measuring, I mean, you can get a. Well, what's it called? Let's look at one culture amp.

[Alex]

And you can measure KPIs in there as well as they can rate themselves

[Layla]

on a week to week basis in terms of how they're feeling, their wellness, et cetera.

[Alex]

Then on a weekly basis, you're not

[Layla]

even just measuring just their results and output, but you're also measuring how are

[Alex]

they feeling, what's their sentiment. And I think as long as you're

[Layla]

giving people a place where they can, they can self report results of theirs, then I think you are constantly reviewing those and then giving them feedback on the self reporting. I think that that's probably the best way you can get ahead of those issues.

[Grayson]

Okay, so just spin it back, is create a feedback loop so that I can track their how they're doing over time, 100%.

[Alex]

And I think it should be self reported.

[Layla]

It shouldn't be you capturing it.

[Alex]

Yep.

[Layla]

Yep.

[Grayson]

Okay, that sounds great. Thanks, Layla.

[Layla]

Cool. Well, when you get a team, good luck. All right, bye. Grayson.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Hey, Layla. Can you hear me okay?

[Alex]

Yes, I can.

[Layla]

How's it going?

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Good. So first I just want to say like huge thank you to you and Alex for making all the content and everything. I started a digital marketing agency about nine months ago. Ended up having a falling out with my parents about not wanting to go back to college. I was a college soccer player, got injured, didn't want to go back, and then started a company and really didn't

[Joey]

want to go back.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

So I ended up having to pulling out kind of living in my car and in my office or, you know, four or five months while I was building my business. And I just, you Know, had you guys my ear every day. So huge thank you for that.

[Layla]

Dude.

[Alex]

Super cool that you're.

[Layla]

You got out of that. Congratulations.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Yeah, appreciate it. You know, we're not a huge company, but we're doing about $5,000 a month in profit digital marketing company. So we do like Facebook, Google Ads as well as like catalog revamps and like social media management. So right now we're switching industries from like the home improvement industry to more like the medical supply space. I was really just wondering, like, do you, as someone who's been super successful in a bunch of different industries, do you have kind of a checklist you go through when entering a new one?

[Layla]

Well, why are you switching?

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Yep. So just from, from my experience, it was hard to pitch the home improvement company. It was more difficult to pitch the home improvement companies as they have a lot less money. And you know, we just found that they're really blue collar guys. They have a limited amount of marketing spend, whereas like some of these larger medical companies and really the switch came because we already landed one of them and it was so much easier to sell them initially, get good results and then upsell them. Yeah, so. So that's why we're.

[Alex]

Okay, that makes sense. Checklist for industries.

[Layla]

So interesting.

[Alex]

Yeah, I would say that more so,

[Layla]

you know, for us, we like if even like acquisition.com like we really work with companies that in some way we have experience through our own companies that we built. Right. So it's like you know, gym launch. We understand brick and mortar gyms. We also understand service companies and consulting, prestige labs. We understand supplement companies and E commerce. And Alan, we understood, you know, SaaS companies to a degree.

[Alex]

So usually like when we're taking on

[Layla]

a company like I'm, we're. We are playing to our strengths in that like most of our acquisitions and as of recently especially are like brick and mortar chains. Because the skill of building a chain of 100, 200 gyms is the same skill.

[Alex]

To build in many ways is a

[Layla]

very transferable skill to building a chain of 100 nail salons or med spas or etc. So I look at like skill transfer and across industries, like when we are for example, like doing diligence on a company that's in an industry that I don't necessarily understand. I will go find and pay a consultant from that industry to educate me on it. And so, and we'll go to conferences from the industry and attend them. So like last weekend, you know, our head of, I guess managing director of business development went to A med spa convention. Because we've been talking about getting into medspa chains. It's like, okay, well, that's a lot of health. There's a lot of legalities around it and compliance. So we need to start going to

[Alex]

all the conferences and really figuring out

[Layla]

if this is something we want to get into.

[Alex]

And so I would say for you,

[Layla]

how do you do your diligence in that manner? Like, are there conferences you can go to? Are there consultants you can pay? Like, how can you get an edge on the industry more than anybody else? Because if anything, that'll help your business.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Right, okay, gotcha. Yeah, I've started just, like I heard Alex say, like, offer to pay people for their time who are like marketing managers within that medical supply niche. So I've done that and then that's great meeting set up. So just after that, like, any next steps or just kind of do that and then see where that takes me.

[Layla]

Dude, you're going to learn more working with the one that you have right now than you will talking to anybody.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Okay?

[Alex]

So I think, like, the more that

[Layla]

you can learn from the current client that you have, the better. Like, how can you learn more from them? How can you get deeper into understanding their needs, how they, like, working with you, what other companies they work with? Like, I would use that to your advantage. You already have one right there. So it's like, what can you. How can you leverage that? Because a lot of people that are starting off where you are, they don't even have one.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Right. Okay, and then just real quick, last question. Like, this company that we're working with, they also do, like, white label. And so there is a potential for like a ton of referrals. So, like, when do you typically. I know a lot of people that have a different answer to this, but when do you typically ask for those referrals? Like, after you get the best, like, good results for them? I know Jordan Belfort says to, like, ask as soon as you close them, but there's a lot of different opinions, so I was just curious on that.

[Alex]

Interesting. You know, I think typically it's after

[Layla]

you've provided your first significant amount of value. So, like, in SaaS, we call it time to value. So it's like, what's the first. When does that customer first experience value from the product or service you provide? And then at that same time or right after that event, can you ask for a referral?

[Alex]

Okay, so, so for you, is it.

[Layla]

Is it when you get ads live? Is it when they close a deal from the ads. Like, what would you say is the most. When are they. Like, hell, yeah. I'm so glad that I partnered with you.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Yep. So right now we're working with them to redo their Facebook page, and then we're also redoing all of their catalogs and, like, brochures. So maybe after we do the three catalogs in the. In the brochure, which should take maybe like after this, like, two or three week period, then, you know, once they get the catalogs in there, they're really pleased. Then maybe ask for the referrals.

[Layla]

No, because what do they hire you for? Is it to make catalogs or to get customers?

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

Yeah, so. So we're doing both for them. So we're doing social media management for them. He wants to start running Facebook ads in the future, but we're going to kind of dive into that whole thing after we do all their catalog remaster.

[Layla]

So they just want pretty catalogs.

[Guest (Digital Marketing Agency Owner)]

So for now, yeah, we're redoing their catalogs and their brochures, and then we're working with them to redo their Facebook page.

[Layla]

Wow. Okay, you should keep doing that then, because that's a lot easier than Facebook ads. So, I mean, if that's what they want, then yeah, sure. Do it right after you redo the catalogs.

[Candace]

Okay.

[Layla]

That's a more scalable agency than running ads. So if you can just find agent. If you can just find more of them that want catalogs, you should just do that.