Podcast Summary: Build with Leila Hormozi

Episode: Throwback: Why Positive Reinforcement Works Better Than Punishment | Ep 312
Host: Leila Hormozi
Date: August 22, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores how businesses can achieve higher accountability and develop stronger teams by using positive reinforcement instead of punishment. Leila Hormozi draws on personal experience in scaling businesses and explains why reinforcing desired behaviors works better than punitive approaches, ultimately offering frameworks to create organizations where people genuinely thrive and perform.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Accountability in Business

• Two Types of Accountability
  • Tactical Accountability:
    • Focuses on hard skills and operational tasks ("Did you complete your report on time?").
    • Usually easier for people to enforce.
    • Ex: “Did you turn in your end of week report?”
  • Developmental Accountability:
    • Addresses soft skills and underlying behaviors ("Are you being transparent, taking initiative?").
    • Often neglected, but crucial for long-term growth.
    • Ex: Reinforcing honesty, teamwork, or positivity.

2. Why Feedback Fails—and How to Do It Right

• Definition of Real Feedback
  • “Giving feedback is providing someone with information that will change their behavior. If it has not changed their behavior, then it is not feedback.” (00:24)
• Common Problems:
  • Feedback is often taught and delivered incorrectly; people “insult” rather than truly help, leading to avoidance.
  • Negative feedback or punishment often breeds resentment or avoidance rather than improvement.

3. Extinguishing Bad Behaviors & Reinforcing Good Ones

• Replacement, Not Just Removal

  • Instead of just telling someone what not to do, give a replacement behavior and reinforce it.
  • Example: “If someone’s habit is to yell, have them message a manager for support instead.” (08:44)

• Real-World Analogies:

  • “You ever had a parent that’s like, why don’t you call me more? And you’re like, Mom, I don’t call you more because every time I call you, you tell me how I don’t call you.” (11:34)

• Reinforcing Outcome-Driving Behaviors

  • Channel efforts toward reinforcing actions that produce results, rather than things like likability alone.

4. Techniques for Effective Positive Reinforcement

• Withholding Attention from Undesirable Behaviors
  • “If somebody does a behavior...that you don’t want more of, extinguish it by just not responding, not reacting. I will never punish by making a face or making a noise...Just nothing. Blank stare. Neutral.” (16:20)
• Actively Reward Desired Behaviors
  • Any small positive change that aligns with goals should be reinforced. Loud praise isn’t necessary—sometimes a smile or virtual high five is enough.

5. Self-Assessment Above All

• Empowering Employees to Reflect
  • “If you can get somebody to assess their own behavior and present it to you, that is king above all else.” (19:08)
  • Use neutral language: “On Monday you showed up to the meeting 30 minutes late. That’s a fact. Anyone who came in and was on the meeting would be able to state that.” (20:09)
  • Guide them to their own solution: “What do you think we can do next time to make sure it doesn’t happen again?” (21:10)

6. The Accountability Formula

• Formula:
  • Expectations + Measurement × Reinforcement = Accountability (29:43)
• Breakdown:
  • Expectations: Clear instructions, job descriptions, core values.
  • Measurement: KPIs, timelines, surveys, etc.
  • Reinforcement: Reaction after measuring the performance—positive or negative, but positive is best.
• Crucial Insight:
  • “The amount of reinforcement you provide dictates the strength of accountability in a company.” (32:38)

7. Practical Application Example

• Self-Assessment on Core Values
  • Employees rate themselves on how well they exemplify values (e.g., “unimpeachable character, sincere candor, competitive greatness”) and discuss ways to improve. (38:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Why Feedback Matters:
  • "Giving someone feedback makes them like you more and change their behavior. Insulting people does not change their behavior. It just makes them hate you." (18:48)
• On Avoidance in the Workplace:
  • "The more we avoid something, the more scary it becomes. And then, eventually, what you end up doing is just firing the person because you're like, they can't change this thing. But the reality is, you never address the thing that they couldn't change ..." (06:20)
• On Positive Reinforcement:
  • "You may feel like a kindergarten teacher doing this, but I swear to God it works. And the simpler, the better. You can give a thumbs up, you can give a high five, you can give a pound. It doesn’t matter what it is." (25:12)
• The Core Formula Restated:
  • "Expectations plus measurement times reinforcement equals accountability." (29:43)
• Practical Reframe for Leaders:
  • "You become their comrade rather than their dictator." (27:27)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:24: Definition of feedback—why most feedback fails
• 05:00: Tactical vs. developmental accountability
• 08:44: Replacing bad behaviors with constructive alternatives
• 11:34: Negative reinforcement example (parent analogy)
• 16:20: Withholding attention from undesirable behaviors
• 19:08: Self-assessment as the gold standard for feedback
• 21:10: Guiding employees to generate their own solutions
• 25:12: Simple positive reinforcement works best
• 29:43: The accountability formula explained
• 32:38: Reinforcement as the main driver of accountability
• 38:45: Example of the self-assessment values system

Tone

Leila is pragmatic, direct, approachable, and highly action-oriented. Her advice is rooted in lived executive experience and focuses on clarity, kindness, and practical tools.

Summary Table

| Segment (Timestamp) | Key Insight | Notable Quote | |---------------------|-------------|---------------| | 00:24 | True feedback changes behavior | "If it has not changed their behavior, then it is not feedback." | | 05:00 | Two types of accountability | "Tactical... Developmental..." | | 16:20 | Ignore what you don’t want | "Extinguish it by just not responding, not reacting." | | 19:08 | Self-assessment is king | "If you can get somebody to assess their own behavior... that is king above all else." | | 29:43 | Accountability formula | "Expectations plus measurement times reinforcement equals accountability." |

Takeaway

Building an unshakeable business means championing clarity, measurement, and above all, positive reinforcement to create lasting, positive behavioral change. Ignore what you don’t want. Notice and reward what you do. Make self-assessment central, and remember: expectations × measurement × reinforcement = true accountability.