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Building One with Tomer Cohen
Building IKEA with Fredrika Inger: Designing for Price, Experience & Real Life
00:44:03
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- [00:01]
Fredrika Inger
LinkedIn news innovation ultimately is solving problems.
- [00:09]
Tomer Cohen
It came back from my own personal pain point.
- [00:12]
Leah Smart
It just takes a while to build that trust.
- [00:14]
Fredrika Inger
The problem that I was trying to.
- [00:15]
Tomer Cohen
Solve, it was all I was thinking about.
- [00:17]
Leah Smart
You have to be obsessed with the human condition. I'm Tomer Coyne, Chief product officer of LinkedIn and this is building one.
- [00:26]
Fredrika Inger
You can't just design a product. You really have to think about every step of the value chain.
- [00:32]
Leah Smart
That's Fredrika Inger, Chief Product and Commercial Officer, Ikea. For Ikea, great design is only part of the equation. We're going to get into that and so much more. So stick around.
- [00:48]
Jessi Hempel
From LinkedIn News, I'm Leah Smart, host of Everyday Better, an award winning podcast dedicated to personal development. Join me every week for captivating stories and research to find more fulfillment in your work and personal life. Listen to Everyday better on the LinkedIn podcast network, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from. LinkedIn News. I'm Jessi Hempel, host of the hello Monday Podcast. Start your week with the hello Monday Podcast. We'll navigate career pivots. We'll learn where happiness fits in. Listen to hello Monday with me, Jesse Hempel on the LinkedIn podcast network or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:32]
Leah Smart
With almost 500 stores in over 60 countries, IKEA is one of the most recognizable brands in the world.
- [01:38]
Tomer Cohen
They are known for their do it.
- [01:39]
Leah Smart
Yourself furniture, which personally I'm a big fan of. They're also known for their unique flat packaging, functional design and massive stores when you can get lost for hours. What's less known about Ikea is that every everything starts and ends with designing for the price of the product. As the founder of Ikea said, we have no respect for the solution until we know what it costs. Every company has its unique superpower. This is Ikea's. That's why I'm excited to have Fredrika Inger on the show. Fredrika is the Chief Product and Commercial Officer of Ikea and there's no one better to talk to about building products at the furniture giant. Not only does she sit at the top of the whole IKEA product range, but she spent two decades touching almost every element of the process, from materials to sourcing to retail management. In this episode, Fredrica will share some great insights, including how design at Ikea isn't just about a product, it's an entire value chain. Why IKEA works backwards from a target price to design its offerings how IKEA's five pillars of democratic design are key to building its products why IKEA studies people's lives in their homes. The reason IKEA emphasizes selling full experiences over selling individual products and so much more. So let's dive in.
- [03:10]
Tomer Cohen
Thank you so much for joining me. It's great to have you on the show.
- [03:13]
Fredrika Inger
Thank you. Nice to be here.
- [03:14]
Tomer Cohen
So you've been at IKEA for 20 years. Over 20 years you've done so many roles. Why did you join IKEA and what kept you there all these years?
- [03:22]
Fredrika Inger
I think it's 22 years now. The story is that I was studying at the University of Technology, so I have actually a Master of Science. I'm an engineer as a base, but I always had a big interest for design, fashion, architecture. So I was also looking around, curious about companies that maybe you can combine all the fun you can do with problem solving and engineering with fashion and design and architecture. And of course also then finding an opportunity to do my master thesis in IKEA. So I actually did that and 22 years later, I'm still here.
- [03:58]
Tomer Cohen
And you've done so many roles, right? Like when I think about the operation of Ikea, what it takes to produce a product, everything from the inception to the design to the manufacturing, to the supply chain, to the retail, you've done a lot of those. That feels to me like a superpower, right? You can see the whole product development life cycle. Where does that come into practice in your work? How do you connect the whole dots.
- [04:20]
Fredrika Inger
Across after these 22 years having, as you say, the opportunity to be in many parts of the value chain, I think maybe good to know that Ikea, you can sometimes think about us as a retailer, but a lot with IKEA is to develop products, develop value chain. We even have our own industry group, being close to raw material and all that. So I have in my career been both in retail operation, being a store manager, but I also worked in the purchasing office in Ho Chi Minh City and working with purchasing of natural fibers. And of course, most roles I have had in between with product development, business development, business area managers and all that. And of course with the role I have today, it gives me great experiences to understand, you know, if you do a change here, it changed all the way. When you develop, you cannot only develop for one part. You really have to consider the totality of every decision you take. So of course it's been extremely helpful to have that experience.
- [05:16]
Tomer Cohen
And how do you connect the dots for people? So for example, if there's a product designer, are they thinking about the material or you want them to think just on the product design and Then there's the material side. Do you want them to kind of push the limits of what's possible with product design, or do they all kind of factor for each other's work, or they're all working on their silos and there's kind of system around it that basically connects the whole dots together.
- [05:37]
Fredrika Inger
You always have to design for that totality. And I think Ikea's uniqueness is, of course, that we have the vision of creating a better life for the many people, and we really want to do that with great design that people can afford. As a recipe for that, we have what we call democratic design. So every time a product developer do a product, they have to consider five dimensions. They have to do a good form, a great function, built in quality, sustainability, and then to a low price so that many people can afford it. But in order to do that today, you can't just design a product. You really have to think about every step of the value chain. So when you design that, you know, what material you pick, how you utilize that material, what production techniques you use, how packaging looks, how logistics is put in place, and then how you sell it. You know, how to cater for both deliverables, home deliverables, but also, you know, to store. So, like the whole packaging. So you really have to design the product and the value chain at the same time. That's the job.
- [06:34]
Tomer Cohen
So let's go deeper into that one, because I think when you say Ikea, when it comes to product design, the immediate thing is the idea of democratic design, right? That's kind of the overarching principle. And like you mentioned, it's the form, the function, the price, the sustainability and the quality. I don't know if at this point IKEA and Swedish culture are so intermingled together, but is the idea of, like, affordability and function, are those, like, culturally Swedish?
- [07:00]
Fredrika Inger
In many ways, in the Swedish way of thinking, you don't want anything to go to waste, right? You want to be looking at resources with a lot of value. So I think it comes, of course, from that. Then, of course, Ingvar also deciding that strategy for Ikea. I mean, he started and routed Ikea more than 80 years ago. I think it was 1976 when he put out the strategy that we are here to really serve the many people with the biggest needs and the thinnest wall, let's say that has been very close to who we are. Then I think it's very much in line with the Swedish way of thinking about, you know, being a social democrat in the base so of course it's part of that too.
- [07:35]
Tomer Cohen
So the form is how the product looks, the function is what it serves. And I think you have three principles there. It's who you're serving, where it's supposed to be and how they're going to use it. And then there is the quality side of it. We're going to talk about price a lot because I think it's such a important foundation for Ikea. Like you said, the biggest needs, the thinnest wallet is a very big statement. And then there's sustainability. I'm sure those can come sometimes with kind of a trade off between each other. Like a designer would say, hey, I can make this higher quality but that extra thing will cost more. Maybe you could walk me for an example where you know, you have those trade offs and you have to make.
- [08:11]
Fredrika Inger
A decision, you choose like what is really going to be most important of this product. I mean you always have to live up to kind of a base of all the five. But then of course you can stretch one dimension depending on what you're after. There is always a little bit of a trade off. But then I think we also try to really find a win win. But I think we have a good example of democratic design. We have a new favorite product here that we have just developed. It's a new frying pan. It's just sales starting now in the IKEA stores. We gave the development team a huge challenge to take this frying pan and we really wanted to hit the price of €4 because it was really for the one that needed a great frying pan for absolutely the lowest possible cost and the price that they could afford. Alex, who is the product developer, he's a former chef so of course he got the task. And if you look at the frying pan now, I don't know if it reached fully €4, but I think at least $5. I think in the US probably going to be the retail price. It is a product that they have come up with all these ideas. I think the function, I think you wanted a non stick surface. And then of course we also know that today in many of the non sticks there is of course pfs and things. So they have finding a new way of having a new ceramic based non stick material to take on. They have really looked at also how to use more from less and use as little material as possible, but also very good. So they have managed to find a new kind of spray on the surface instead of a metal plate. So it also works on different induction. So and then of course also they have used at least 70% recycled aluminum, decided to use aluminum as material as that can be recycled again and again and again. Also with the functionality of the handle and using aluminium, it's also quite lightweight for old and young people to use. So I think we now have of course a frying pan that you sell for $5 that has recycled content, more sustainable, I think fantastic coating material for the non st. Also of course a spray. So it works on all different hubs. And I think also from a functionality and form, it looks great. And the handle is a perfect fit for many different personalities too.
- [10:19]
Tomer Cohen
And what happens when you are not able to get that win win? Like do you just send them back to the whiteboard until they're able to like check mark all those five dimensions? Or is it more of an iteration? You take it out to market, you kind of improve it over time.
- [10:32]
Fredrika Inger
I mean, we put price tag first. That's how we think it comes from a lot of insights and we understand that people live and if you really look at many families today, the high inflation and the pressure on the economy, and I think even in Europe, if you take many households, in the end when everything is paid, they have like maybe €50 or $50 left to actually be spent on other things per month. And then of course, if you have $50 left, what to spend it on and if you need a new frying pan, yeah, maybe €4, $4 or $5 can go for that. But we actually think what people can afford, we use that price tag. And sometimes, as you say, we go back and forth. In this case, I think they invested thousands of hours to really understand what is the functions that they need to put into this. As basics and the development team work here, we work close to suppliers, we work with different innovation, different materials. We have of course, a lot of different teams. You go back and forth until you crack it. And then, I mean, if you don't crack it, you have to discuss can you have a little bit of a higher price or actually the wiggies stop the project. We put a high effort on reaching the price tag that we set out.
- [11:35]
Tomer Cohen
Yeah, and that comes across from the history of IKEA really strongly. The whole idea of like the price sets the tone and you walk backwards from there. There was even a quote that I really liked. I think it was the founder basically said, we have no respect for the solution until we know how much it costs. Which is a really strong statement. It's like, this could be beautiful. High form, high function, high quality. But if it costs a lot, that's not good enough. That's a very strong for me, the idea of principles in a startup company that's you come to Ikea, you know, you're going to start with like, how do I make this affordable above everything else? When you think about the price kind of dimension there, you would say, hey, quality is only in service of something, all in service of better form or function. Everything basically bends into that one. Like you're trying to kind of get the quality to be the best within the price, but the price basically dictates the whole funnel.
- [12:27]
Fredrika Inger
I mean, when we started it was form, function and the price. And of course, as you say, we have added the dimension of quality, dimension of sustainability. Of course, we are making life sometimes stuff for ourselves. But I think quality, I think it's both ends because I think it starts with the life at home. We have such a deep interest in how people live, how they actually use their products. We also put quality a lot in relation to how you use the products. So of course we have our own test facilities to test the product. How much will you use it? How many times will you open and close the drawer? Many times, you know, will you sit in the chair rolling the bed? So of course it's also tested a lot for everyday life. So that's in a way how you put a lot of standards into quality. That's the basic need of quality for how to use the product. So there, I think we put no compromises. Then of course, if you want to add sometimes a design value of having a bended wood or a more rounded shape, or a little bit of another wooden material that costs more, instead you can add features that maybe could be seen and experienced as high quality. But I think the basic quality for life at home and how you use the product, that's be secure in all products. But I think also good to say that the sustainability is the same because of course here we are now committed also to reduce our climate footprint 50%. We also know that a lot of Ikea's climate footprint sit in the materials we use and in the products we sell. So now we also add the challenge of reducing the climate footprint. So it's a lot of problems to crack these days on the sustainability.
- [13:57]
Tomer Cohen
I also read that for Ikea, it's not just about the materials, it's also about the behaviors you want people to adopt as part of the products. What's an example of that? That like you're building a product with the sustainability in mind about how you would use it. It's just in a more sustainable way versus how it was produced.
- [14:16]
Fredrika Inger
I mean, saving water is one. And we have created this little nozzle you can put on your tap to save water. It can save up to 95% of your water. And I think the whole food and how really have helped to find extremely smart food storage solution that you can really make sure that you don't waste food and all that. So that I think is really good examples of how we have helped people to live a more sustainable life at home. Energy saving appliances and all that is maybe also given in a way.
- [14:42]
Tomer Cohen
Yeah. From a material standpoint. You mentioned the life at home and when I was learning about Ikea, it really stood out. The idea of conducting research at people's homes, like going and observing them. How does that work? Like you don't start with an idea, you just go and observe pain points. Like your team goes and they sit around watching people in their home. How does that come into life? What's the starting point there?
- [15:05]
Fredrika Inger
I mean, today with all the different techniques, we can get a lot of data, a lot of insights, a lot of reports, insights on how people live. Both when I'm out traveling and when the development team's out traveling, we always take the opportunity to visit people in their homes, normal people in the different markets. So when you go to China or you go to Germany or go to India or you go to US, of course you take the opportunity to visit people and you know, spend time with them in their daily life. So to say and see what the needs and dreams and struggles and frustrations and their flows in the home. You get a lot of insights and nice connection and a good detailed input on what you can do to solve.
- [15:44]
Tomer Cohen
The problems I'm envisioning. Your team goes and sits in like a corner in the house, just quiet, taking notes for like a few hours. Is that the way it works?
- [15:53]
Fredrika Inger
Yeah. Quite recently I was out traveling in China and I was out and we were going to this. It was a young couple and her mother living in the apartment. And of course they just had a kid that was, you know, one, two years they were inviting us to the home. So we were first walking around a little bit and then we were sitting in the living room and have a dialogue about life, how things are doing and what they see and what they are worried about and what they are happy about. And we from that go into different frustrations and going to their kitchens and a lot of small appliances and how do you store them and how do you Use your. And how do you store your different pans? So it's like all that kind of discussion in that detail. You look at solutions from that you're.
- [16:36]
Tomer Cohen
Looking for inspiration of frustrating moments, pain points. And then when you come up with a product idea and you have some kind of prototype, do you also take it to their homes and you're seeing how they use it?
- [16:47]
Fredrika Inger
Yeah, sometimes we do. We have different ways of testing and customer groups to test the solutions later. So. Absolutely.
- [16:53]
Tomer Cohen
Given your just your amazing tenure at Ikea and how much you've seen any products that like for you, maybe even culturally you did not put much emphasis on, but you knew you saw it in somebody else's house. Like one of those kind of big insights you saw by observing people in their homes.
- [17:09]
Fredrika Inger
Oh, it's a good question. I mean, I think we want also to support people that have big needs and dreams. And we focus a lot on the people that live in small spaces, the people that live with children because they also struggle the most because you have the biggest needs and sometimes the biggest mess. We have a lot of great systems of store and organizing, you know, modular system how you can build and different solution that you can also make personal for your specific need. That's how we can really help people to find smart and affordable solution to declutter their homes.
- [17:42]
Tomer Cohen
Yeah, you're giving them the trend of organization. There's like smaller homes and like how does things fit within that and within sustainability and reusability. Is there also a notion of modularity when you're trying to say, okay, this could have multiple functions to the idea of the five dimensions, saying, hey, one function is this, but really after that you can also use it for something else and you're really buying two for the parts of one. In a way I agree.
- [18:05]
Fredrika Inger
And I think when we design products, we have of course also design principle for circularity. This is one of the whole reuse and the repurpose of a product that we put in. And as you say, the storage. I think we have put a lot of thinking to make them modular and being able to move them in different functions of the home. And I can just go to myself, I mean, I have been moving with Ikea many times in my life and I like to move and the luxury in Sweden also that many people can afford a summer house and so on. So I have had a lot of different needs and I still have many of my loved products like my Billy bookshelf that has been going from the living room to the kids room to being Shoe storage in the secondary to go to different room and different functions.
- [18:48]
Tomer Cohen
When I think about my IKEA experience, it's exactly that. Like, there's some stuff where, you know, it was part of the office, it was part of the children's room at one point. It was just storage at one point. It's very durable, so you feel bad, like, even, like, you know, getting rid of it. But also you always find different purposes for it. It's so modular in that way. I'm curious. One thing I also saw when it comes to kind of practices that IKEA does in a unique way, is that you display products that are during design mode. They're not yet out in the market, but you display them so employees can see them and they can see the progress you're making. Or they're thinking, is that. Is that correct? Is that something you do? And I'm curious, if so, what's the goal behind them?
- [19:28]
Fredrika Inger
I mean, we sit in an office in South Sweden. It's not in a big city. It's a little bit where Ingva once routed ikea, out in a small village called Elmholt. And we have a big office here where we have most of the product development.
- [19:39]
Tomer Cohen
This is where the company was founded, right?
- [19:41]
Fredrika Inger
Yes, we have small hubs out in the world, but the majority of the team is sitting here at the. So every development team sits together in the middle of it. We also have the whole prototype shop where we both have a digital prototyping, but we also have physical prototyping. So we have the whole wood and textile and all different materials. It's a very real place because there is a lot of products displayed. And I think it's always a lot of discussions over the product. So we put really the product in the center, also stress testing, and we have different way of coming together and discussing and really evaluating if the product is good enough from all angles. And then of course, we also develop a lot on the factory floor and on the shop floor. So we also then take the products, go out to supplier. How can we adapt the product to make it fit production better, to fit logistics better, to really be able to sell efficiently and all that. So we do a lot here, but we also then use the shop and the factory floor to really adapt it, lowering the cost and of course lowering the climate, the impact of the product. So to say that sounds like a.
- [20:40]
Tomer Cohen
Great place to visit and walk around to get some inspiration. What's happening in the future. On that note, a product being incepted right now, like the ideation of it, how long does it take for it to get to market?
- [20:51]
Fredrika Inger
On average, I normally say that some products we should be able to put in the market in three months and some can take 10 years. If that's really going to be changing a platform or changing a material or being part of changing industries, I think we can accept the long lead time on it. But from idea to market, I would say average two years. We are operating in 63 markets. It's being able to sales start it, of course. It's also the whole time of starting it up and production and building up that part.
- [21:19]
Tomer Cohen
And how much of that is that design inception to okay, this is what we want, let's go manufacture it? As an example, I'm assuming majority of time is spent there or is it actually in the manufacturing side of it?
- [21:33]
Fredrika Inger
I will say it's maybe 50. 50. 50, 50, yes. Half time there, I think. And then of course it depends a little bit on the product. But you know, if it's two years, I think half of the time is really to develop and half of the time to build up.
- [21:44]
Tomer Cohen
Still on the idea of product design, you know, one of the things that's remarkable in Ikea, you can walk around the world, I think there's over 400 stores, if I'm not mistaken.
- [21:53]
Fredrika Inger
Depends how you calculate now, as we are opening smaller formats.
- [21:56]
Tomer Cohen
So like at this point, you know, origin obviously is in Sweden, Scandinavia, but it's a massively international known brand across the world. My assumption is that some products of Ikea you can see everywhere, everybody knows them, they're almost meta culture, they're kind of above everything else. But I'm assuming some parts are unique to each region or unique. I'm assuming this is like part of the region that you would kind of build something very unique to. I don't know, the Middle east or China or something like that. How does that work? You have local teams, like local design teams, cultural teams that basically influence the design materially. Or is it like we start globally and then we customize slightly locally, but we don't make big changes?
- [22:40]
Fredrika Inger
It's a good question. I think every market have around 10,000 products. And then of course we have a total portfolio, maybe 25 to make sure that we cater for that relevance. And we have also small hubs of the development center out in China, in India, in Vietnam, and I think also in Warsaw, and a little bit of a special setup also in North America. But I think it depends on the product area because IKEA is also really there to find opportunities to lower cost and lower the climate impact. We also want to use scale and we love limitations. We love a limited range because it gives us opportunity to optimize and use the scale for new innovation and better ideas, so to say. But of course it depends. If you take an area like mattresses, for example, we have no global mattresses because in North America you want to sleep on very soft and high mattresses and in Asia you want to have very hard mattresses. So of course there you have like coconut fiber and latex and in US you have more like foam. So it's like very different in certain areas. And then of course it's a mix of using the development team sitting closer to the market, but I think also with the more global team sitting here and they are actually utilizing how to best optimize both production, development and the totality of the value chain, so to say. So that's how we work.
- [23:55]
Leah Smart
We're going to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, Fredrika is going to explain why Ikea focuses not just on individual products, but full home design solutions.
- [24:05]
Fredrika Inger
It's not just about products, it's actually how products come together to create that fantastic solution. Because it's quite hard with home furnishing. You just want to buy the products and they fit perfectly together, you know.
- [24:20]
Alex Canceroitz
Hi, this is Alex Canceroitz, I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on air contributor to cnbc. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it, asking where this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, in meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, tune into Big Technology Podcast on your app of choice.
- [25:00]
Leah Smart
We're back and I'm speaking with Frederica Inger, Chief Product and Commercial Officer, ikea.
- [25:06]
Tomer Cohen
You mentioned the catalog is very large. You have to decide which of the catalog actually goes inside of a store in a region. And I'm assuming you're making all the research to make sure you have great guesstimates of what that would be. But probably you want some experimentation as well. You want to be able to experiment with products, pull them in, pull them out and see, hey, it resonates, doesn't resonate, Maybe it's a big hit, but we didn't know, I'm assuming there's a strong need to experiment with what works, what doesn't work pretty quickly. So you can basically iterate and put some big hits on the floor. Does the operation allow for experimentation and if so, how do you make that work?
- [25:41]
Fredrika Inger
Yeah, I think it's a good question and I hope I had a better answer on it because it is a little bit of a challenge for us because we also wanted to reach the low price and be efficient and, you know, do things better. And of course then you need a certain scale to make sure that you get it out. And you cannot test fully with prototypes. So it's like a little bit of a challenge for us sometimes if we know it's a big investment. For example, of course we try to test it more, more reference groups. Sometimes it can be a digital, if it's only that. But if it's really a functionality, we can maybe test and sell smaller bag somewhere. But to scale it up then we sooner or later have to decide to invest on building up the capacity, so to say. So we also have to have a lot of guts. So I think also setting quite long term strategies, we want to work with a certain identity. So of course we also trust a lot our own experience and beliefs. Then we also allow for mistakes. So hopefully not too expensive. But yes, that's how we do it.
- [26:36]
Tomer Cohen
That's a critical way to innovate. IKEA's legacy is so large. There's so many things that IKEA is known for. One of them is that flak pack. I don't know if IKEA came up with it, but obviously when you see a flat box, you assume that somebody just came back from ikea. That was a real innovation. I think it was like multiple decades ago, but it was the shipping innovation. The transport is much easier, it's faster, it's much more affordable. You can pack a lot more inside of a truck. The products are less likely to be damaged because of the packaging. So that was amazing. That was like amazing innovation. And in many ways designers at IKEA have to make sense how to make that work. Right? Like ultimately it has to go into a flatback. What do you see as the next revolution? Are there like advanced modular furniture that IKEA is thinking about? Or I'm just going to make this up 3D printed furniture, you know, some stuff like you can print at home or like a rental mode. Are you seeing like that next next level beyond the flat pack that will kind of transform again furniture, retail and delivery.
- [27:40]
Fredrika Inger
I mean, Ingvar, who was the founder of Ikea and a true entrepreneur was very clear that happiness is not about reaching the goal. Happiness is being on the way. Right. So I think it's in the big and in the small. And I think sometimes we want to say what is the new big flat pack? We have done many things over the years of changing from when we went from wooden pallets to paper pallets of changing also kind of different industries and transportations and many different things. I think today, of course, it's also in different innovations in materials and things like that that can transform. But I don't know if we have cracked the full big revolution of home furnishing yet. It sits in many small improvements today. We have had also many heroes over the time. One of our most loved wardrobe systems that we call the pax. It's a wardrobe system that is modular and I think known worldwide. It's been with us for a long, long time. And I think it's always been a lot of frustrations about that because it's quite hard to assemble it times and it's big and bulky to bring home. We of course have a lot of small innovations to make that better and make that more convenient. So I think we have now what we call a PAX 2.0. It's a super simple things because the customer will not tell a difference from the outside. But the whole cabinet, instead of having a back and two sides and a lot of fittings, it's actually less a foldable back. Like you can just fold it up and then it's more or less ready and you just click it on so to say. So I think we have gone to reduce like half of the steps of assembling it. We have got from 120 fittings to 20 fittings. Of course it changed also the whole kind of thinking that you have to assemble a wardrobe with four sides and all that, you know, many small changes make a big impact, so to say. I think PAX is a good example of that. We are never also giving up. It's always changing big and small. I think that it's a lot. Even a kiosk culture, you know, we always do things a little bit better every day. Sometimes big leaps, but sometimes also many small things make a big difference.
- [29:32]
Tomer Cohen
Yeah, and you mentioned the point around assembly and I have a lot of IKEA furniture. I actually really enjoyed the assembly. Kind of was a sense of accomplishment. But the majority of any folks are like, you know, I don't want to go page by page. I want it to be quicker like you know, five steps instead of 10. And I don't want to start looking like is the screw, the bigger screw, the middle screw, the little screw. There's almost like a self selection. Some people actually really enjoy assembling my IKEA furniture where some folks are not. So it sounds like you are in many ways. How do we make the assembly time? Just going to make this up cut by half. So it's half the time to assemble. And I'm assuming you're also making it less error prone. Right, because the customer is part of the experience. Like you have to assemble it in the end of the day. So there's a lot of trust you're putting in the customer. It's not complete until the customer assembles the product. In Lego it's part of the play. But Ikea, some folks just want the chair or they just want the sofa. So it's also like how do you make it less error prone for customers to be able to go for that?
- [30:33]
Fredrika Inger
Of course, you know, we do our part, you do your part together, we save money. That was the whole kind of narrative of going to flat packs. Then of course you could go to a level when you start to make things smaller and smaller and smaller. Of course in the end assembly it will maybe too much. So I think we have had a few examples when we just took it too far in Sweden. Of course we are very do it yourself trained. But I think for the more global we have been and going into maybe countries, but I think we have seen that people don't want that. They also want convenience. I think as you say, to a certain extent you like to be part of the process. But we have put quite a lot of efforts into that. Easy assembly. Pax being a good example. As I just mentioned, you know, it takes half the time, it is 1/5 of the fittings. It's really simplifying the whole process. Also what is a benefit of that is that you can actually de assemble it much easier. So I think in the world we live among people moving and I think the whole circularity and also the prolongation of the life cycle, so to say. So we put a lot of efforts in that. Now we have this new built in fitting that you just click in, so to say. And I think we have a lot of innovators and engineers that spend the years of finding new fittings that you just click together. That's also an important part of what we do.
- [31:42]
Tomer Cohen
Okay, you said that do it yourself is part of this foodish culture.
- [31:45]
Fredrika Inger
Yes, I would say so there's a.
- [31:48]
Tomer Cohen
Lot of, like, nice cultural aspects that come into how IKEA works. And. And the idea of continuous improvement that I've heard from you in many forms throughout this interview sounds very similar to that Japanese kaizen kind of thing. It's like a little bit more every day, and then by the time you notice it, there's a massive innovation after.
- [32:04]
Fredrika Inger
A while, finding better ways. Being on the way is, in a way, part of our kind of culture and values. And I think that's also very linked to the Swedish way of being and doing that together. So it's very strong in the culture. In ikea, we spent a lot of.
- [32:18]
Tomer Cohen
Time talking about the product design and the users and their needs and how to cater to that. But I'm curious about the retail experience, because IKEA is also unique there. Right. Like, I've had the experience of when you walk into ikea, it could be amazing. And you can go for this, like, theme land kind of thing, where you're kind of traversing between different worlds and different areas, but you can also get lost pretty quickly and, you know, there's all the signs and so on. I don't know anybody else who does it like IKEA does it. When you think of that experience in a few years from now, like, what works really well that you want to keep and what would you want to change in that retail experience and outside of, like, smaller shops, smaller kind of dedicated shops. But you had the idea that I come to IKEA and I'm like, rethinking my house. Like, how do you think that's evolving, that future of retail space or that future of retail shopping experience?
- [33:07]
Fredrika Inger
There has always been a little bit of a positive friction. Maybe when you go to the store, I love that term, it's a little bit of positive friction. I think that's how we see it. But we have, in some shops or smaller formats, also let the customer have a fully free flow and meeting rearrange and the products not in a steered flow. And then of course, everyone is like, we want actually to be a little bit steered. You have to help us because we want to see the different product functions. We want to understand, like, importance is the life at home, right? It's not just about products. It's actually how products come together to create that fantastic solution. We call it a complete and coordinated solution. And complete is, of course, that if you want a nice bedroom, you want a good bed to fit with the bedside table and have a good lamp, you can read and a good. So everything fit Together, good flows, good storage. So it's like the whole completeness of a solution. Because it's quite hard with home furnishing, you just want to buy the products and they fit perfectly together, you know, lined up and same measurements and it's like modular, so it looks beautiful. And then we also coordinate it so we make sure that it's super easy to buy different products and from a style and color and patterns that they are also quite easy to combine. So we put a lot of pride in the complete and coordinated and the home furnishing solution and the home furnishing knowledge that IKEA sits on. I think it's really to find new experiences with my development team sitting here doing product development. We always have a digital twin to every product. As we have limited range, we can also take the time to make a digital twin. And of course, with that kind of 3D model, we can help to create future experiences and see and complete and coordinate and personalize and help people to actually have perfect solutions for their space. So to say something, we have a lot of exciting innovations to do.
- [34:52]
Tomer Cohen
So positive friction for you is like, you need to do a little bit more effort, but it's worthwhile because you'll be able to see the full experience.
- [34:58]
Fredrika Inger
Exactly. I think so. Because the risk is that, yes to convenience, people are also looking for something.
- [35:03]
Tomer Cohen
Yeah, you came for a chair, but I'll show you an experience. Actually, it makes a lot of sense, right, because you are studying life at home. You're not necessarily trying to design the ultimate chair, but the ultimate experience that the chair is part of that. And if you just buy one unit, you might not get the full modularity or the full experience of how you can streamline your life better. You know, I was like visiting a few startups recently in Asia and there was a lot of like, furniture that looks like regular furniture, but then you touch it and like it's actually a whiteboard and like there is electricity there, so you can charge your phone and stuff like that. So I'm curious, like, is that like part of the evolution that you're seeing coming into the future of retail, the.
- [35:43]
Fredrika Inger
Future of furniture, or we have a team that is working actively on versatile furniture or whatever you call it when it's multifunctional. We have had a lot of different exploration projects of finding, you know, multifunctional needs and all that. Of course, IKEA always sit with that need of simplicity and low price and, you know, the circularity in being able to also sort. So we are exploring a lot in this area. And I think Ikea, we don't think in trends. Right. We also think what is really real needs and long lasting.
- [36:14]
Tomer Cohen
And you know, looking at three years, like two, three years ahead.
- [36:16]
Fredrika Inger
Yeah. And Ingvar, I think we also have that when Ingva was thinking, you know, you have to think long term. And you ask Ingva, like, what is long term? He's like 200 years or so. So I mean he was always on that map. So we of course always look at trends, but I think it's also to look at real needs and real changes and what is really value for people. We know that if you live small space, you need multifunctionality, versatility. And I think we are also exploring a lot of different possibilities.
- [36:44]
Tomer Cohen
Wonderful. I would love to end on a few quick rapid fire questions. What's like one physical product in your house that you cherish, like you really love?
- [36:53]
Fredrika Inger
Oh, I have a lot of products that I love in my house. I have too many products in my house. So I think it's on my dining table. Gathering the family around the dining table is the best thing I know.
- [37:05]
Tomer Cohen
What's a product that, you know, it could be ikea, not ikea. Doesn't have to be ikea. A product you did not think would be successful, but actually surprised you, it was successful.
- [37:12]
Fredrika Inger
Eventually we did a small trolley when I was in kitchen and I think I was early in my career and people were questioning, should that really be in the kitchen? And it's called Ruaskog. It's a small trolley we have with three layers and everyone was a little bit. It's a strange function. Where should it fit? I think we had an initial forecast of 35,000 pieces and I think now we are selling more than 700,000 yearly. So I think we had a wrong initial forecast and probably a small trolley that you can keep everywhere in your house.
- [37:40]
Tomer Cohen
When you walk around the retail store, what's your favorite place? Where do you feel like you're getting the most inspiration or excitement?
- [37:49]
Fredrika Inger
The textile departments. Because I love textiles and patterns and colors. So of course that always gives me a lot of joy. Also, of course, children's ikea, looking at a lot of playfulness and being a former business area manager for children's ikea, I always think that's a fun area to visit.
- [38:06]
Tomer Cohen
Yeah, for me it's the kids area as well. It's like all the colors and the playfulness like really gives you some inspiration and fun. Thank you so, so much. It was amazing to hear about your point of view and how you see IKEA and actually bring it to life. Because we all know the brand. Many of us have shopped in the brand many times. But understanding the behind the scenes that go into it was a wonderful journey. Thank you so, so much.
- [38:28]
Fredrika Inger
Thank you.
- [38:30]
Leah Smart
It was great. To learn about the product making of IKEA ikea, let's jump into a few key takeaways. First, I believe that there's great power in being ultra clear about what's the most important thing for you in building your product for ikea. Without a doubt, it's pricing. Fredrika shared that IKEA sets the target price at the very start of product development. This flips the usual design first, cost later, logic on its head. They begin with a price that customers can afford, for example, $5 for a frying pan. And then they reverse engineer everything from materials, manufacturing, packaging, logistics, so they can meet the price without sacrificing the brand's design and quality standards. It's a major reason IKEA can offer surprisingly affordable products without looking or feeling cheap. Second, you need to observe real life at home before starting to solve problems. IKEA teams, including Fredrika herself, frequently visit the homes of ordinary people around the world, literally sitting in their living rooms, poking around their kitchen and inquiring about their day to day frustrations. They're not looking for lifestyle trends, they're looking for practical needs. For example, how to store bulky pots and pans, or how to manage very tiny spaces. These visits fuel product innovation that is grounded in real problems that customers actually face all the time. This real life lens makes its way into the customer experience. Go to any IKEA store and you will be immersed in countless showrooms that demonstrate not just how products can be used, but how they fit together into one holistic experience Experience. Shoppers might come to just get a chair, but in the end, they'll feel inspired by a complete experience. This whole process starts with observations. Third, assembly is part of the IKEA experience, but they're continuously tweaking it. IKEA's flat packaging concept has always been central to cost saving. But Fredrika was candid that sometimes they've pushed it too far, actually turning off customers who just wanted furniture, not a construction project. So IKEA is continuously working to simplify the assembly process for its customers. Take the PAX wardrobe, for example. They've shrunk the number of parts from 120 to 20 and they cut the steps in half. The result? They attracted more customers. But that's not the only win. Easy assembly also means easy disassembly. So you can move or reuse furniture supporting a more circular economy. A win for Ikea, a win for its customers, and a win for the planet. I'm Tomer Coyne. Thank you for listening. I learned a lot and I hope you did as well.
- [41:27]
Max Miller
We'll be back in two weeks with Gary Tan, the CEO of Y Combinator. Building one is a production of LinkedIn News. Our host is Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn's chief chief product officer. This episode was produced by Max Miller. Our associate producer is Rachel Karp. We're engineered and mixed by Asafka Drum, and our editorial associate is Alex Koznetsova. We get additional production support from Alicia Mann at LinkedIn News. Sarah Storm is senior producer. Dave Pond is head of productions and creative operations. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of content and audience development. Courtney Koop is head of original program. Dan Roth is the editor in chief of LinkedIn. If you know a product leader we can all learn from, send us a line@pitchesinkedin.com.