Trump Melts Down Over Peeling Paint & Algae in Reflecting Pool | MAGA Mondays

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Trump Melts Down Over Peeling Paint & Algae in Reflecting Pool | MAGA Mondays – June 22, 2026

Participants:

• Sam Stein (Host)
• Will Sommer (Guest)
• Additional voices: Benny Johnson, Greg Bevino, Candace Owens (clips)

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Episode Overview

This energetic MAGA Mondays episode finds Sam and Will digging into some of the MAGA world’s most unhinged developments. The show opens with Donald Trump’s bizarre spiral over alleged sabotage at the DC reflecting pool and its “algae crisis,” then pivots to the bombshell Washington Post exposé on Tulsi Gabbard’s alleged ties to a Hare Krishna cult leader. Rounding out the episode: an accidental (or deliberate?) Candace Owens death hoax, plus a brief foray into the far-right’s growing cult of personality—complete with a presidential hopeful admiring Dracula. Throughout, the tone is irreverent, fast-paced, and full of incredulous laughter at the latest right-wing absurdities.

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Reflecting Pool Meltdown: Trump vs. Algae

Segment Start: 01:51

Key Points

• Trump’s Paranoia: Donald Trump is obsessively accusing "enemies" of sabotaging the DC reflecting pool, insisting a “300-foot long gash” was carved into the pool liner and that “chemicals have been illegally placed in the water.”

  • Will Sommer: "I would describe the President's reaction to the reflecting pool situation as paranoid, fetid. The atmosphere is heavy at the White House. There's enemies around every corner trying to sabotage the reflecting pool." [02:44]

• Reality Check: Experts (and Sam & Will) agree the issues are likely due to rushed repairs and improper application of sealant, not sabotage.

  • Sam Stein: “There's no evidence of sabotage...everyone who's looked at this pretty much has concluded that it was done hastily... you got to let the sealant kind of stay for a while before it can really congeal. And they just rushed and got a lot of water in there.” [02:59]

• MAGA World Conspiracies: Trump loyalists and ex-officials (like Ezra Cohen Watnick) are pushing the “sabotage” narrative.

  • Will Sommer reads Cohen Watnick's tweet: “Very obvious that the reflecting pool was targeted by saboteurs over the past week. Very obvious.” [05:30]

• Absurd Solutions/Accusations:

  • Trump threatens 10-year prison sentences for anyone destroying the pool (or just “touching” it).
  • MAGA influencers blame everything from Antifa to nitrogen-rich fertilizer run-off, and even call pro-algae protesters “welfare queens.”
    • Benny Johnson (clip): "We didn't used to have this problem. These people didn't used to be able to live or eat or pay rent. But now...they have the extra money to go out and make algae's smarter than MAGA protests." [09:34]
  • Pro-algae protesters are holding satirical rallies, which triggers the MAGA base even further.

• Trump Boasts Gone Wrong: The hosts gleefully revisit Trump’s claim that the new pool sealant “could withstand a knife gashing.”

  • Greg Bevino (Trump clip): “You couldn’t if you had a knife...I don’t want to give anybody ideas...if you had a knife you can’t even cut it.” [13:32]
  • Will Sommer: “That makes me think he did it right. He was kind of like, someone, for example, stab it.” [13:59]
  • Sam Stein: “He did drive over it. And that can’t have helped!” [14:12]

• Escalating Madness:

  • Olympians and journalists are being ticketed or threatened with arrest for “touching the water.”
  • The area increasingly resembles an “armed camp” with military and sheriffs on patrol.
  • Sam sums up: “It’s very Nixon final days, you know? They're out to get me. They're slashing up my pool.” [11:57]

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein: “Can what is ostensibly the most powerful nation in the world do a pool? Increasingly, the answer is no.” [14:46]

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Tulsi Gabbard’s Guru: The Washington Post Exposé

Segment Start: 15:03

Key Points

• Bombshell (WaPo) Investigation: Reveals strong evidence Tulsi Gabbard was heavily influenced—if not outright controlled—by Chris Butler, leader of the Science of Identity Foundation (a Hawaii-based alleged Hare Krishna splinter group).

  • Will Sommer: “[Tulsi] has been very responsive...down to like parroting the exact language or introducing legislation at the request of this guru who leads an alleged cult.” [15:44]

• Inside the Cult Dynamics:

  • Leaked emails/memos from Butler’s close aide show Butler dictating orders—ranging from legislation to media rebuttals.
  • Sam notes the "harshly critical" and even demeaning language Butler used, directing Tulsi’s messaging and chastising her performance.
    • Sam reads memo: “You're not even trying to. You've become really intellectually lazy.” [19:16]
  • Tulsi’s efforts (statements, legislative amendments) reliably follow the guru’s instructions.
    • Will Sommer: “[Tulsi’s] doing, like, exactly what this guy says.” [21:08]

• Political Ramifications:

  • The reporting suggests the Director of National Intelligence (Gabbard’s previous role) was under the thumb of a cult leader, which Will finds “very kind of...Scientology feel.”
  • Discussion of Tulsi’s political shift—from Bernie Sanders supporter to Trump world insider—is tied to possible guidance from Butler.
  • There are concerns about foreign ties, transparency, and national security implications.

• Butler’s Identity & Response:

  • Chris Butler remains reclusive and mysterious, with little known about his actual views.
  • Gabbard’s response is to allege anti-Hindu prejudice, but WaPo’s documentation points to specific actions, not faith.

• Timing & Media Critique:

  • The segment explores why the Post held the story until after Tulsi’s DNI tenure—ultimately praising the thoroughness despite the late arrival.
    • Will Sommer: “If you imagined, how would they prove Tulsi Gabbard is an empty shell of this alleged cult leader? They pretty much got it.” [29:02]

• Online Defense: Megan McCain emerges as Tulsi’s most diehard advocate, denouncing the story as “anti-Hindu bigotry,” but neither she nor others provide substantive refutation.

Notable Quotes

• Will Sommer: “This might be one of the most successful cults ever.” [24:11]
• Sam Stein: “This is not like...a lobbyist...She’s doing, like, exactly what this guy says.” [21:08]
• Sam Stein: “Imagine running in 2028 as Marco Rubio and JD Vance are like, ‘I’m sorry but are you in a cult?’ ... I don’t think she’s gonna get by this one.” [29:34]

Memorable Moment

• Cults vs. Cults:
  • Will speculates about “cults running ops against each other” inside the Trump world, with “Scientology” and now “Butler's group” vying for influence. [34:09]

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Candace Owens Death Hoax — Grift or Mistake?

Segment Start: 39:00

Key Points

• The Hoax:

  • Right-wing influencer Lily Gaddis posts a solemn message about Candace Owens’ supposed death, only for Candace to refute the rumor hours later.
    • Lily Gaddis (read by Will): “It is with deep sadness and sorrow that I’m sharing the passing of my longtime friend and political commentator Candace.” [39:38]
    • Candace Owens (her Tweet): “Thank you all for the messages of concern, but I am not dead. If I were, it would be entirely appropriate for you to have blamed Israel and the shrugging emoji.” [42:15]

• Grifter Drama:

  • Gaddis claims her account was hacked, blaming social media manager Jordan Daly.
  • Will references “deep lore” of right-wing microceleb grifts—including Daly’s recent fake Secret Service claims.
  • Other MAGA influencers, like Milo Yiannopoulos, speculate the hoax could be an intentional clout-seeking stunt.

• Analysis:

  • Sam marvels at the sheer pointless recklessness and self-absorption of the stunt: “Do they recognize that they’re like, kind of freaks and that this is weird behavior?”
  • Will’s view: “They can recognize that one another are freaks...they typically, there’s very little introspection.” [47:07]

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Greg Bevino, Dracula, and the Fascist Aesthetic

Segment Start: 48:17

Key Points

• Fascist Cosplay:

  • 2028 presidential hopeful Greg Bevino (far-right personality) posts from Romania, admiring a statue of Vlad the Impaler (Dracula), describing him as “the original border patrol...inspiring.”
    • Greg Bevino (clip): “He took care of his people against invaders...remigration and mass deportations.” [48:17]
  • Hosts point out Vlad was a genocidal monster (responsible for 40,000-100,000 deaths) and mock Bevino’s attempt to rebrand him as a model leader.

• Connection to Broader Trends:

  • Both hosts note the increasingly open embrace of explicit fascist and cult-like imagery by emerging right and far-right personalities.
  • Joking about future campaigns: “That’s the ticket—it’s Bevino and Tulsi! ... Bavino bring the fascists, Tulsi brings the cults.” [51:37]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Reflecting Pool’s Symbolic Value:
  • Will Sommer: “Can what is ostensibly the most powerful nation in the world do a pool? Increasingly, the answer is no.” [14:46]
• On Tulsi Gabbard:
  • Sam Stein: "This is not like...a lobbyist...She's doing, like, exactly what this guy says." [21:08]
  • Will Sommer: “If you imagined how would they prove that Tulsi Gabbard is an empty shell of this alleged cult leader? They pretty much got it.” [29:02]
• On Right-Wing Internet Grifts:
  • Sam Stein: “Why would you do something so stupid and reckless? Dumb dumbs. But hey, it’s good for business.” [47:10]
• On Modern American Madness:
  • Sam Stein: “Honestly, we live in the weirdest times.” [36:30]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start Time | |------------------------------------------|-----------| | Reflecting Pool Meltdown | 01:51 | | MAGA World Conspiracies | 05:30 | | Benny Johnson Protests Clip | 09:34 | | Trump’s Knife-Proof Pool Boast | 13:32 | | Tulsi Gabbard/Chris Butler Exposé | 15:03 | | Guru's Emails and Cult Influence | 19:16 | | Discussion of WaPo Timing/Impact | 25:47 | | Megan McCain's Defense | 30:06 | | Candace Owens Death Hoax | 39:00 | | Dracula as Right-Wing Inspiration | 48:17 |

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Conclusion

MAGA Mondays offers a rapid-fire, darkly humorous tour through the latest MAGA media fixations, from pool “sabotage” and pro-algae protests to explosive cult allegations at the heart of US intelligence. The episode highlights how extreme paranoia, conspiracy, and performative outrage now underpin much of right-wing discourse—and finds plenty to lampoon in the cast of influencers and personalities who thrive in that chaos.

Next Week: Due to Will's travel, MAGA Mondays shifts to MAGA Tuesday—so stay tuned.

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Useful for readers who missed the episode:

• Understands both the absurd details and the deeper undercurrents of Trump-era right-wing news
• Captures the exact skeptical, snark-filled tone that defines Bulwark coverage
• Features direct quotes and links to key moments
• Timestamped for skipping to the topics that matter most

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Folks, we're back. It's me, Sam Stein. It's Will. Will Summer. It's Monday Maga Mondays. What a pleasure to be joined by you every Monday. Will, thank you for doing this.

[Will Sommer]

You know, it kicks the week off right. You know, for me, I spend the weekend saving crazy tweets I see from maga people. The drama I see in the moments between, like, taking my kids to see Peppa Pig or whatever, and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, sure. Like this crazy stuff's going down. And so here, this is where I sort of share it with. I unburdened myself.

[Sam Stein]

Was it better or worse to do this on Father's Day? For you?

[Will Sommer]

You know, for me? For me, it's a treat. It's, you know, in between, you know. Yeah, I had a great Father's Day. I hope you did as well. But the Maga drama never stops.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Well, happy Father's Day to all those who are out there. Just a belated plug. Look, sometimes you forget that it's Father's Day and you wake up on Monday and you're like, oh, no, I forgot about my dad again. And he. He really doesn't love me anymore, and I need to get back in his good graces. Well, there's only one way to do it, and that's a Bullock subscription. So go to bullock.com subscribe for your ability Father's Day gift if you haven't gotten yet. There's my plug. All right, now on to the show. We have so much nonsense to. To sift through. I'll just give a tease up top. We're going to be talking about the reflecting pool to start, because Donald Trump is on an absolute kicker right now. And then we're going to talk about Tulsi Gabbard, a bombshell Washington Post piece that she may and likely was under the influence of a spiritual guru from Hawaii, member of the Hare Krishna group, which luckily Will actually is also a member. So he has some expertise in how this works.

[Will Sommer]

Yes, I'm waiting on my talking points from the guru before we proceed with that segment.

[Sam Stein]

And then on top of that, we have Candace Owens. Is she alive? Yes, she's alive, but someone said she was dead this weekend and sent Will into a spin. He's beginning to worry that he might not have content for his newsletter and for Maca Mondays. All that and more coming up. But let's start with the reflecting pool. So, yeah, where to begin? Will, how would you describe how Donald Trump is taking the fact that the pool has a lot of algae in the bottom layer. It's not a paint, it's a layering sealant, if you will. Seems to be coming undone, as we documented with our own Brendan Harnett, who went down there and saw it peeling off, poking out of the water. Trump's not handling this particularly well, but how would you describe his mental well being right now?

[Will Sommer]

You know, I would describe the President's reaction to the reflecting pool situation as paranoid, fetid. The, you know, the atmosphere is heavy at the White House. There's enemies around every corner trying to sabotage the reflecting po.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I mean, it. I just want to be clear. There's no evidence of sabotage. Everyone who's looked at this pretty much has concluded that it was done hastily, that pouring hydrogen peroxide may have been problematic. It might have solved one problem, but have created another problem. People who are experts, and I've actually watched, like pool experts on YouTube, have been talking about how you got to let the sealant kind of stay for a lot a while before it can really congeal. And they just rushed and got a lot of water in there. And then on top of that, now that it's busted, they are going to have to drain the entirety of the pool, it looks like. I mean, that seems to be what Trump's getting at, right?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah. I mean, this is a big moment for the pool expert community. I too, have been spending a lot more time on Pool Expert YouTube than I ever expected. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it seems as though the idea that, you know, and I think we have a new tweet from the. Or a new truth from the President. Can we put that?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, let's put that up. You want to read that one? Sure.

[Will Sommer]

So he says, of the many statues and fountains that we rebuilt, renovated, clean, and fixed, the only one that was vandalized was the reflecting pool, which is being taken care of ASAP. It has been given a 300 foot long gash. Chemicals have been illegally placed in the water, and the beautiful new grass field has been destroyed with a gigantic 8647 chemically carved into it. Probably inspired by dirty cop James Comey. Well, that part's real. And then he says, please remember that there is a 10 year prison sentence for the destruction or even attempted destruction of such things, which will be fully enforced. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Okay, so the part that struck me there is the 300 foot long gash that the idea that someone I don't know with, like, how would that work? A pike or something. You're kind of like.

[Sam Stein]

But for 300ft, I mean, that's ridiculous. That's a football field. They would just go and no one would notice. Is that like how it happened?

[Will Sommer]

Well, it's. I mean, you know, as you said, it's crazy because this is obviously a very surveilled part of Washington and are already a city with a lot of surveillance everywhere. So the idea that, you know, people would, you know, or one person would be able to be in the reflecting pool, just like maybe in like a full scuba gear, you know, with like a, like a, like an underwater knife just scratching it up. I just don't think it's believable.

[Sam Stein]

And yet there are a few people out there in the MAGA universe who are pushing this nonsense. Ezra Cohen, who was an old Trump hand in the foreign policy world, put a tweet out. I don't know if we have it here.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, people may remember this guy also as Ezra Cohen Watnick. He was kind of a Cash Patel running buddy back in the day, back in kind of the first administration, so he says. And this, by the way, I thought he was a little. I didn't think he was quite this crazy previously, but. But maybe I'm wrong. Very obvious that the reflecting pool was targeted by saboteurs over the past week. Very obvious.

[Sam Stein]

Is it? Very obvious.

[Will Sommer]

And all the pictures are just people, like standing around looking at the water.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, well, the only time that there's someone in the water is the people who were sent by Trump to clean up the freaking algae in the water. If that's the evidence of saboteurs, then I guess you got to blame Trump for it. He also talked about whether there was nitrogen fertilizer in the reflecting pool. Let's put this up as well, if we can. How did the nitrogen fertilizer get into the reflecting pool? Malicious. I don't. Has there been nitrogen fertilizer put in there? I thought, I thought it was hydrogen peroxide. There literally was video of people putting hydrogen peroxide. Am I missing something? Was there nitrogen fertilizer put in there?

[Will Sommer]

You know, I think possibly there was like some runoff maybe from the trees or something. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's as someone said, like, are they going to arrest the sun for like providing the heat that is helping this grow? I mean, there's all these things. I mean, if you've been on in The Pool Expert, YouTube, like I have, like, this seems almost like over determined, you know, what could cause this algae bloom? I mean, you know, it's so shallow, you're painting the color darker. You know, the bird droppings, the. If you're using city water, that's already going to come loaded with phosphates. So it seems as though, look, when Antifa started their algae farm, I thought it was a waste of money, but now, you know, it seems like it's come in handy.

[Sam Stein]

There are, it's, there are actually people down there protesting in support of algae, which is bizarre behavior, but they're having fun with it. There's. Have you seen the pro algae protesters?

[Will Sommer]

Yes, yes.

[Sam Stein]

So they're down there, they're having a ball. They're talking about how great the algae is, which is just, you know, silly nonsense. It is what it is, but it's driving people mad, obviously, because they think they're rooting for President Trump's failure and embarrassment and Trump's, you know, we put up on one truth, we don't have to put the others. Trump, Trump's talking a lot about, well, you know, I've beautified all of Washington D.C. all the fountains are working. You know, everything's great except for this one little hiccup with the reflecting pool. But it's not my fault because someone made a huge gash in there and I guess he's taking it personally. But frankly, and we've talked a little bit about this, like, I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world what's happening with effecting pool. It's, it's like, you know, maybe like in the 90s on my list of most important things in the world, but I don't think it's a non issue. I think like, you know, Trump bulldozed all the sort of common procedures and then he himself held it up as an emblem of how great he is and how, how savvy a business leader he is. And only he could do what every other president has tried to do since the reflecting pool started and they rushed it out for the 250th anniversary and then this happened. And so I don't think it's wrong to say, hey, you, you, you made this about you and now it's failing. It should be about you. And, and we actually pulled up and I forget with I don't think we have the clip. Maybe we can find it while I talk where Trump literally bragged about how the sealant could withstand a knife gashing. So like, maybe we can pull that up. I, I posted if we can get in a little bit.

[Will Sommer]

I got the bulletproof ceiling.

[Sam Stein]

He did say it. I mean, this is True. He said that they could withstand a knife gashing. So like, yeah, if you're going to hold these things up as, as an example of how great you are and how savvy you are, then you sort of need to, you know, live with the consequences when things go haywire. Among the people who are not taking it particular are Benny Johnson. Let's play the clip of him getting really upset about the pro algae protesters

[Benny Johnson]

are out literally protesting on behalf of the algae. They have team Algae shirts. They went and made that we need to cut off all welfare. We have to do more to get rid of NGOs and all welfare. We didn't used to have this problem. These people didn't used to be able to live or eat or pay rent. But now there are. Time in their day and the extra money to go out and make algae's smarter than Maga protests.

[Will Sommer]

Beautiful. He's crestfallen. He can't believe.

[Sam Stein]

But what does welfare have to do with this? I don't understand. As he said.

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, Biden put in the pro algae welfare stipend. I mean, you know. No, it is crazy. I mean, you know, to your point about like, you know, look, yes, algae. Is it that important in the overall, Maybe not, but I think it's reflective of this situation. Reflective, thank you. It's not reflective. Perhaps that's the problem of this kind of like frequent Trump thing. We see where he rolls up to something, whether it's Iran, whether it's the reflecting pool, and he says the last guys were idiots. There's actually an incredibly simple solution here. We don't need the new filtration system. We don't have to worry about the straight out horror moves. You know, let's just. We just paint it. Duh, you know, I'm so smart. And then. And unlike these other policy things where it's sometimes a little harder to measure the impact, like, you know, it's failing, but it's like, you got to go interview people. These things can be a little, little abstract. Instead we can say, well, it's green. I mean, the Guardian had this graphic where they're just measuring the color every day. And then they're like, July 4th goal, color. This is where we want it. Where is it? And it's not there. And so, and you know, the thing we haven't mentioned is now people are getting arrested, they're getting tickets, they're putting their hands in the water. I mean, yeah, so there was a

[Sam Stein]

cyclist, an Olympian cyclist who put his hands in the water and Touched the flappy under sealant and he got arrested. And they're talking. And Trump's here talking about 10 years in prison for saboteurs or people who are touching. He's threatening Jonathan Carl, who was down at the, you know, reflecting pool, covering this as a, you know, as a reporter. Like, this is batshit authoritarian stuff now.

[Will Sommer]

It's very. It's very Nixon final days, you know that. It's just like they're, They're. They're out to get me. You know, they're slashing up my pool.

[Greg Bevino]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Do you think that's what's happening is, like, he's calling up Jeanine Pirro, being like, you have to, like, make arrests, is it?

[Will Sommer]

Absolutely. I. I think so. I mean. Or. I mean, you know, she can probably sort of interpret that from these truths that she should be making arrests.

[Sam Stein]

But.

[Will Sommer]

But, yeah, I mean, I, I think there's this clear. It's become like an armed camp down there. I mean, you've got the military, you've got all these, like, sheriffs from random

[Sam Stein]

places for a freaking pool. Like, it's. Again, it's a pool. Like, what do we. And the amount of money we're going to spend, like, trying to prosecute people for touching the water, and then on top of that, for deploying the National Guard and the military to protect the pool, and then on top of that, to clean the pool, and then on top of that, to replace the sealant at the bottom of the pool and then to refill the pool. It's like, you know, this thing's. He was bragging about 14 million. This thing's gonna be a constant expenditure. It's unreal. Do you think they're gonna end up actually having, like, real arrests?

[Will Sommer]

I mean, they've arrested at least one guy.

[Sam Stein]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. Do you think the prosecution sticks?

[Will Sommer]

Well, famously. You know, the, the sandwich throwing guy got off. Right. And so it's, It's.

[Sam Stein]

That was a more. That was more. That was more obvious. Right. Like, he literally did throw a sandwich at a cop.

[Candace Owens]

Right.

[Greg Bevino]

And.

[Will Sommer]

And so that makes me think that, you know, I don't think these will. I don't think these will stick. This. This algae ain't sticking.

[Sam Stein]

All right, we have the video of Trump talking about how you couldn't knife this thing. Let's play it.

[Greg Bevino]

This will last for at least 50 years, and you'll never have a leak. It's very. You couldn't if you had a knife. I don't want to give Anybody ideas? If you had a knife, you can't even cut it. So strong. So powerful, powerful rubber. It is beautiful sealed. And I looked at just one of the little pieces that they did to finish. It's like a piece of glass. Beautiful color, beautiful everything. You could never get any. Anything like that.

[Will Sommer]

That makes me think he did it right. He was kind of like someone, for example, stab it.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, he was very specific about a night you can get a knife.

[Greg Bevino]

Can't cut it.

[Sam Stein]

I tried. He did. Didn't he drive over it? He did drive over it.

[Will Sommer]

Yes, he did drive over it. And that can't have helped.

[Sam Stein]

Imagine if that was the cause of this. There's like weird tire marks that kind of got a little crooked and then, oops, we had a.

[Greg Bevino]

There.

[Sam Stein]

Shouldn't have done that. Oh, my God. Okay, I don't want to do too much more reflecting pool because it's too much. It's over. It's overwhelming my system. But do you have any final thoughts before we move on to the Tulsi story?

[Will Sommer]

I mean, I recommend folks check it out if you can. I mean, in person. I feel like, you know, it's sort of like, can what is ostensibly the most powerful nation in the world do a pool?

[Sam Stein]

Can we do a pool?

[Will Sommer]

Increasingly, the answer is no. And so I think it'll prompt a lot of thoughts for you about the direction of America.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, we've been sending our guide on there, Brendan, a couple times. Checking the water, checking the flappy stuff. I'm a little reluctant to send him back there. I don't want him to get arrested,

[Benny Johnson]

I think,

[Will Sommer]

With his picture.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, fine, Brendan. Look, folks, if you. If he does get arrested, I don't. We're not. We're not hoping for this at all. Obviously, we love Brendan, but if he does, we're gonna need the community rally around Brendan. Okay? He's just doing journalism, just, God, honest journalism. He's here to report the news. All right, The Tulsi story, it is batshit. I don't even know where to begin. What's like the proper sort of 30,000 foot summary here and then we can get into some of the specifics.

[Will Sommer]

Sure.

[Sam Stein]

So.

[Will Sommer]

So over the weekend, the Washington Post, John Swain had a story about how Tulsi Gabbard. He basically got a lot of emails suggesting pretty strongly that Tulsi Gabbard throughout her political career has been directed. Has been very responsive, down to like parroting the exact language or introducing legislation at the request of this guru who leads an alleged cult, that Tulsi is a part of.

[Sam Stein]

And how they got the. The emails is not an insignificant detail here, because it was an aid to this cult on an aid a member, and it was aid to Tulsi, right?

[Will Sommer]

That's right.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. But she was also part of this quote unquote cult. And initially she was like, there's nothing there. Tulsi's not really under this guru's influence. And then, like, later on, basically, she was like, no, no, this person is, like, controlling her. So why did the aid flip?

[Will Sommer]

So. So, yeah, as you said, initially, she talked to the reporter and she said, it's all good. And then, you know, Tulsi's her own person and then she defects, essentially. She claims. I think she had concern about how the cult was or the group, the alleged cult was, you know, some. Some abuse allegations. And so she had sort of become disillusioned.

[Sam Stein]

And now the group's called the Science of Identity foundation, known as sif. The leader is a guy named Chris Butler.

[Will Sommer]

Yes.

[Sam Stein]

Kind of a recluse. He basically, no one knows anything about him. He doesn't use email, as far as we can tell. He dictates whatever. This is, the allegations, I should say. Everything's alleged. Alleged. You can just. For the lawyers out there. We're alleging. It's alleged. He basically was dictating his notes through a secretary to Tulsi, more or less. And he'd send these emails, like you said, where it's just like, she needs to sponsor this legislation tomorrow and she needs to come out more forcefully and she needs to, you know, denounce this and this. And then he'd also allegedly instruct members of the Sith to go online and defend Tulsi in the comments section. And it was like the evidence, and the reporter was kind of monitoring this was pretty. Pretty conclusive that after these directives were issued over email, Tulsi would basically do exactly that. She would introduce legislation, she would put out statements, she would make denunciations, and people would get into the comment sections and defend her. And it was. It was also sort of the. The kind of the. The way in which the emails were, like, harsh. Yeah, like, that kind of stood out to me. It was like. It was almost like you're, you know, almost treating her like a petulant child that had to have her wrist slapped all the time and telling her she had failed. And, like, she was a disappointment and she was not tough and she was weak. And you get this weird psychosis in your mind where it's like, oh, my God, it's like kind of an emotionally and mentally abusive relationship here. That's what stood out to me.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, it really has like kind of a Scientology feel to it. I mean, you know, the. What the story is saying is that, like, the person who is the Director of National Intelligence, they have a lot of evidence. Is effectively a puppet of this alleged cult leader. And that is in this very kind of like, subservient position, is doing whatever this guy says. And so, like, you talked about a couple examples at one point.

[Sam Stein]

Let me read one, Let me read one. This is from the Post story. It says some of the language was harshly critical. This is Jonathan Swainwriting. One memo I found from January 2015 contained a derisive assessment of a statement Gabbard was to give in response to President Barack Obama's annual address to Congress. Quote, in the first place, nobody gives a shit what you think about his State of the Union speech unless you're going to say something of interest. The memo quoted someone as saying, you're not even trying to. You've become really intellectually lazy. Now, folks, this is like, you know, this is how I write to Will about this first draft.

[Will Sommer]

No, but no, people in the comments, whenever you talk about, like, me or Edgar like that, they're like, oh, sorry, such a toxic workplace.

[Sam Stein]

I, I have, I, I should tone it down. You're right. In another, Gabbard was described as, quote, chicken and mealy mouthed for her comments on a policy proposal. I have not called you mealy mouthed. I'm not going to say anything about chicken shit. Yes, we'll leave that for the, for the commenters to decipher. I mean, this is a member of Congress. This is not like, you know, this. I can't. It's unfathomable to think that someone was just sort of being like, you piece of shit, get, get in there, do something interesting. And she like, took it. Elected official.

[Will Sommer]

No, it's crazy. And, you know, you can see how it affects her legislation, for example. So this guy says, you know, you should introduced legislation saying that veterans can, can get, you know, veteran care without pre approval from the government. And then she introduces something along those lines, but doesn't include the pre approval. So she's already following his directive mostly. And then he goes essentially like, you idiot, you forgot the pre approval. And then she resubmits the legislation with the pre approval. So you can see this isn't like a lobbyist, isn't someone kind of advising her. And she sometimes takes the advice. She doesn't she's doing, like, exactly what this guy says.

[Sam Stein]

And the other part here is Trump, because, you know, Gabbard has this insane career trajectory, right? So she's comes into Congress, she's moderate Democrat, I would say. She's had service overseas. She presents herself as sort of this new breed, and then over time, kind of moves left, becomes a Bernie Sanders ally, speaks at the convention in 2016 on behalf of Bernie Sanders, and then when Trump wins, she's one of the only Democrats, maybe the only Democrat to meet with Trump. And everyone at the time is sort of like, well, this is weird and interesting posturing. Now, of course, there's the horseshoe theory of politics, right? Bernie and Trump are kind of aligned in certain respects, I guess, on economic policy, but not really, you know, sort of just anyways, so that's what it's chalked up to. But the piece gives the impression that it was Butler who was more intrigued by Trump and was the one who kind of pushed her to get into Trump's good graces, which she then does. And obviously then it leads to where we are now, where. Which is she's the head of the. Or was the head of the nsa, and there's a Manchurian Candidate type feel to it, right? Like, it's like, okay, who is this guy? What are his actual motivations? What do we even know about him? And I will say for the piece, like, we don't find out that much about Butler. Like, not in a way that I was satisfied. Right. Like, I want to know more about his worldview. And that just might be because we just. He's so secretive that we just don't have anything on him.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, you can tell. I mean, the Washington Post reporter, obviously, they've been working on the story for, like, almost two years. They go to Hawaii and are trying to interview people. The cops get called on them. You know, there's this very kind of secretive world. If I could offer some speculation about this, intelligent. You know, traditionally, cults have cultivated strange foreign connections. The LaRouches, for example, ran the followers of Lyndon LaRouche. They would run weird private intelligence ops. They were in touch with, like, Franco Espain, all this weird stuff. And so when it comes to the Director of National Intelligence being under the sway of an alleged cult leader, there's also, like, a foreign aspect to it. It's. It's all very weird. And, like, suffice to say, it's not something we want.

[Greg Bevino]

So you.

[Sam Stein]

Your. Your theory, this is just a theory, is that there might be A foreign government involved in this?

[Will Sommer]

No. I mean, well, you know, who knows what this guy might get up to? I mean, these leaders are often trying to, like, you know, ingratiate themselves with, like, weird, rogue foreign elements. And so the idea of. I mean, look, this guy, this alleged cult leader, he hit the alleged cult leader lottery, right? Like, you get with this person who's, like, seemingly a very devoted follower of yours, like, to be a member of Congress. That's awesome. And then they're running for president, then they're the dni that's. You know, this might be, like, one of the most successful cults ever.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, no, it. There's a lot of questions that it raises. Obviously, one is, first of all, Tulsi's people are, like, sort of being, you know, saying, this is anti Hindu propaganda, but this is not. It's nothing to do with Hinduism. There's also a question about her own father, who is a politician in Hawaii who appears to be part of this community. And, you know, they. They tried to say, well, you know, the person who was sending those emails was actually a mix of her father and this other guy who was an advisor to her father. But. But the evidence really doesn't suggest that.

[Greg Bevino]

And they even.

[Sam Stein]

I think the reporter used chat GBT to, like. To, like, look at the actual language and decipher, and it was fairly conclusive that it was Butler who was sending the messages. But, like, they don't actually. As far as I could tell in the story, Gabbard's team doesn't, like, definitively dismiss it. They just kind of say, this is anti Hinduism. And I've been monitoring the online community, and there's plenty of. Plenty of Gabbard stands out there who love her, and they don't seem to be doing a great job kind of, I don't know, discrediting this piece, as far as I can tell. Unless you've seen some good pushback.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, you know, I think the. The Post got this pretty conclusively. I mean, these are kind of. These can be hard stories to understand politically because you have to be like, all right, I'm gonna tell you about this Butler guy. You've never heard of him before. Okay. And to be frank, even the reporters who have tracked him don't know all that much about him, you know, but.

[Candace Owens]

But I think.

[Will Sommer]

I mean, I. I think this is pretty strong. You know, I. I wish it had come out, you know, when she was dni. I'm sure they. Let's talk about.

[Sam Stein]

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about it for a second. This is. This is like, classic sort of backseat driving for. For a journalist. Like, but it is kind of. I mean, she was in this post for a year change, and they knew this or they pretty much knew this. And maybe they didn't have the goods totally nailed down. But, like, I don't know. It's like there's. There's definitely gotta. There must have been some really interesting, difficult conversations in the newsroom about what to do with this, because there is a national security imperative at some point to getting this out into the public. I would be fascinated to know the story behind the story.

[Will Sommer]

Well, and I'm sure the people at the Post, if anyone's listening, they're like, yes, thank you. It would have been better to get it out that I'm sure. You know, we raise it, as you said, to pointed that there probably was something. Perhaps people wouldn't go on the record, perhaps they wouldn't share stuff when she was still DNI because they were, like, scared of some kind of retaliation.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, just. Just to give people a sense of the goods that they had here. I mean, I don't want to be too critical of the Post without knowing. In fact, I don't want to be critical of the Post at all without knowing what went into the decision around timing here. Obviously, I think the preference would have been to get it out beforehand, but sometimes you just don't have it nailed down. And to give people a sense of the homework that they did, there's one section where they're talking about. Because they're. They're analyzing hundreds and hundreds of memos that were, you know, kind of. Were they sent encrypted? I don't know, but they were encrypted.

[Greg Bevino]

But.

[Will Sommer]

But apparently this aid. I said there was like a password or something.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, right, right. So they got the password, they saw the memos. But the memos themselves were, like, kind of weird to decipher in some respects. And then they had to kind of run them against public appearances by Tulsi to get a sense of how often she was just mimicking what was being told to her. And here's what they write. With Post colleague Aaron Schaefer, I compared Gabbard's remarks in 32 TV interviews between 2014 and 2016 with the talking points memos intended for them on 24 occasions. That's 24 out of 32. Gabbard used language in the memos almost verbatim. In the eight other instances, Gabbard used different words, but promoted some of the same ideas. Then they write the memos reflected exacting judgment of Gabbard's performances. The same unnamed speaker who vented about the I thing. We don't need to get into that. Apparently, apparently she was talking with her eyes too open or something like that.

[Will Sommer]

Yes, yes. He hated the eye thing.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, this, exactly. This shows you how insane this person is. Also criticized her for seeming insincere. According to the transcript of those remarks. Quote, it's like she's trying to express something artificially. I don't feel anything from her. This being can complain. It's more like kind of remembering talking points. So they just. To get back to the point, they, they had a lot of stuff to sift through. On the flip side, they. This was like a year of reporting and now she's no longer in that post and it's like could have used this intel, right?

[Will Sommer]

Yes, yes. And I mean, you know, I will say though, to the post credit, if you imagined how would they prove that Tulsi Gabbard is an empty shell of this alleged cult leader? They pretty much got it. I mean, you know, it is like using the same language, introducing the legislation, all this stuff that really like. I mean, I think she's dead to rights on it and I think, you know, should she ever try to have a political career again, I think it is definitely going to come back up.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, this.

[Will Sommer]

I.

[Sam Stein]

You think? I think this one will definitely.

[Will Sommer]

That's my economic analysis, guys.

[Sam Stein]

You don't get. You don't get insight like that anywhere else. Imagine running in 2028 as Marco Rubio and JD Vance are like, I'm sorry but are you in a cult? Are you under the.

[Will Sommer]

Can you talk about the compound?

[Sam Stein]

You talk about nine isles.com that's the domain name where this email came from. Can you tell us a little bit about who Chris Butler is? Like, I don't think she's gonna get by this one. Just to be candid about it, I mentioned the pushback that's out there. There is Megan McCain, who's a big.

[Will Sommer]

Is Tulsi Gabbard's strongest soldier. Yes. Go, go ahead.

[Sam Stein]

What absolute, unpatriotic, vile trash this attack on Tulsi Gabbard is. They won't cover her release on Fauci or Biolabs, both things that threaten the safety and well being of the American people. But spend time in space vomiting this washed up nonsense, anti Hindu bigoted crap. There's nothing in here that is anti Hindu. This is about a Cult leader, Hare Krishna cult leader. And there's Nothing in Megan McCain's statement that defutes or did, sorry, defeats, disputes, anything that's listed here. I mean, there's some serious accusations here. I actually am curious. I don't think Bill Pult is going to get to the bottom of this, unfortunately, but the next DNI probably would need to, you know, look into this, I would suspect. Right. Like, we kind of want to know if there was some.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Who's Bill Pulte's cult leader? Who's he in sway to?

[Sam Stein]

You know, Billboard. I don't care about his color. I want to know about. More about whether Tulsi was doing at dni. I mean, was Chris Butler in touch with her wash was at dni? That doesn't come across here because all this. All this stuff is from. All the memos they got were prior to dni as far as, like, can tell, right?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, that's right. You know, I just. The Megan McCain thing is something that has kind of crossed my radar several times, is like, Meghan McCain is just like a kamikaze soldier for Tulsi Gap.

[Sam Stein]

Why?

[Will Sommer]

This is like, I get. I mean, they're friends, but, like, you would think that I saw someone after Tulsi resigned that, like, Meghan McCain and someone posted the Marco Rubio meme with Marco Rubio with, like, the Tulsi, like, shock white hair. And Megan McCain was like, you piece of crap. You take this down. It was. It was like the pretty inoffensive tweet, and she was just like, I will destroy you. So, you know, I mean, I don't know if. If Megan McCain knows Chris Butler. I would love to know if they've had any inter. Any interactions themselves.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, you think McKay might be in. In the Har Krishna cult?

[Will Sommer]

I mean, I really have no evidence, but, you know, I wouldn't. You know, these days, you know, you

[Sam Stein]

never know, I guess. Look, I don't know if I want to do this, but I'm gonna do it. If you are a member of the Sith, yes. Please drop a comment or get in touch with Will. Not me. No, I don't want any.

[Will Sommer]

Any members of the Sith in the chat. Drop the encryption code and. Yeah, let's fire up those. Those communicators.

[Sam Stein]

Will, have you ever done, like, serious reporting on cults? I mean, obviously you did Qanon, but, like, just cults? Like, what. How do you think? I guess I. I have a genuine question for you, because you do have experience in QAnon and stuff like that, that. How do you fall in your, you know, expertise, in your expert opinion, how do you fall into a cult like this? What is, what is like the way that it happens?

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, let's see. I mean, in Tulsi's case, obviously, it seems like she was born into it, essentially, she raised in it. I mean, that's very common. You know, we see with Scientology, a lot of people are kind of second generation Scientologists. You know, I think often it gets people at a, you know, as you might imagine, in a lost point of their lives or, you know, they have a relative or a friend who brings them in. You know, certainly there are groups like other groups at play these days, like Epoch Times, the following gong from China is obviously a big player in the right wing media ecosystem here. You know, Scientology obviously is very well represented in Trump world with figures like Grant Cardone, the kind of hustler businessman. And Pam Bondi obviously is very close with Scientology. And, and so there are, you know, I wonder.

[Sam Stein]

Bondi was close with Scientology?

[Will Sommer]

Oh, yeah, because she's from Florida. She's very, very supportive of Scientology. My sense is. And Scientology has a big HQ in Flor. She, I believe, had appeared at Scientology events. My sense from the, like, the true Scientology watchers is that she's not suspected of being a member, but that she was really supportive of them. And so one wonders, was Chris Butler, like my rival cult is. Is gaining too much power? You know, are they running ops against each other? These are things cults do.

[Sam Stein]

Cults compete with other cults sometimes. Really? Okay, how do you get someone out of a culture cult?

[Will Sommer]

You know, this is something I, I looked into a lot for. For QAnon for my book, which obviously is like a. Not quite officially a cult. And certain ones definitely were. Read about the Baby q and the QAnon compound in Arizona. But basically, you know, what.

[Sam Stein]

Who's Baby Q?

[Will Sommer]

Oh, you haven't read the book, Sam. So the. Sorry, Baby q. Just briefly, QAnon had some characteristics of a cult, but then there was this, the splinter faction of Q and A that definitely was a cult. It was run by a guy named Austin Steinbart who was like in his mid-20s, who claimed to be Q from the future. He was in communication with himself in the future. And, you know, about like 20 people moved into a compound with him in Arizona. And there were all these like, love affairs. It all. It all ended in a spectacular fashion, I think. Austin, if I remember correctly, went to prison and I Went out to visit him and the crew at one point for the book. So it's very evocative.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, but how do you get people out of a cult?

[Will Sommer]

It's tough. You know, back in the day, they used to kidnap them. I don't think you can do that in emote. Oh, yeah. Culty program.

[Sam Stein]

Get them out.

[Will Sommer]

Okay, Yeah, I think that's fallen out of fashion. You know, I think trying to get them interested in anything else, maybe, like, for example, get them interested in running for office, becoming the dni. Hopefully that'll give them a new interest. It didn't work in this case,

[Sam Stein]

folks. The book is Trust the Plan Rise. Yes.

[Will Sommer]

As we can see.

[Greg Bevino]

And hopefully.

[Will Sommer]

I gotta say, Baby Q, that's one of the best chapters. So that was a good, Good part to mention.

[Sam Stein]

I'm ordering it right now, actually. There's got to be one I have in my home. I think you sent it to me. I just. I. I spent too much time reading your already. I couldn't.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, that's a very fair point.

[Sam Stein]

I'm a member of the Cultivable Summer. Before we leave the SEC segment, I want to just put up a picture of Chris Butler to give you a sense of what kind of cult leader we're dealing with.

[Will Sommer]

Oh, yes.

[Sam Stein]

I don't know if. I don't think I'd file this guy. I don't think so. But he does look menacing.

[Will Sommer]

He looks like a cult leader in, like, a Colombo episode. Right, like you're visiting the Turtleneck. Well, I think it's the Turtle. I mean, obviously, it's like an old picture. You know, he's like. Well, I. I don't know, Detective. I don't know. I don't know where that treacherous aid could have gotten off to Tulsa.

[Sam Stein]

Gabbard. Never heard of her. Do you like my turtleneck? Oh, man, this is. Honestly, we live in the weirdest times. All right, we gotta take a little bit of an ad read break to support the program, and this is a new sponsor, but I'm excited about this one. Bulwark Takes a. Sponsored by Superpower. Yes, Superpower. So look, if you've gotten used to going to the doctor and describing some kind of medical problem, but you've been told that everything's basically fine. I've been there. I've been told that maybe you just need, you know, a drink of water, a good night's rest or something like that. Look, you're not alone if you've had that experience. I drink enough water, I get enough sleep.

[Candace Owens]

Sleep.

[Sam Stein]

I Don't need to hear that. I know I have a, a malady that I need help with. That's why I'm excited to tell you about what Superpower is doing. It's one simple blood drop and you get over 100 different biomarkers, which is way more than you usually get. It unlocks real understanding of the body. And Superpower sends a licensed professional. Licensed professional to your home or you can visit a nearby lab. Their app includes detailed information on your heart, your liver, your thyroid, your hormones, metabolism, vitamin mineral levels. And everyone knows you got to figure out what your mineral levels are and even environmental toxins, which is good if you've been spending time in the reflecting pool because there's a lot of algae there. So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog, which I have a lot, or simply optimizing your gym game, which I'm trying to do, Superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there for helping you be your best, healthiest self. Superpower. Superpower doesn't just give you a one time snapshot. It tracks your results over a lifetime. They have an on demand care team to answer questions as well. Instead of waiting to see your doctor or Google what things mean, make this year the year you stop guessing about your health. With Superpower for a limited time, our listeners are going to get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com use the code bulwark takes for $20 off your membership. That's code Bulwark takes. And after you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about Superpower. Do us a favor. Tell them that Bulwark takes or Bulwark takes Maga Mondays sent you. But tell them Bulwark takes. That will help you support our show superpower.com bulwark takes. All right, will a man of superpowers himself. I did not see this one on the radar, but Candace Owens, is she dead?

[Will Sommer]

I'm happy to say no, she's not. But there was a, a rumor, a Candace death hoax. A Candace death panic over the weekend. Now this all started. Look, anything can happen in the world of right wing media conspiracy theorists. And so essentially over the weekend, this woman named Lily Gaddis, who is a couple rungs, several rungs below Candace on the right wing influencer power charts. Now, her claim to fame, she's part of the micro celebrity community of people who say the N word. White people. And so Chud the builder.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, no, not Chud.

[Will Sommer]

You know, people like that. But basically, I think about A year ago she had a video and she said the N word and she lost her job over it. And then she became like a right wing media figure over it and people. She's like an attractive young woman. And so, you know, all the gripers were going crazy, but basically, quickly over the weekend and. Can we put up the, put up the tweet? The Lily Gaddis tweet. There we go, she says. Candace Owens's family reached out to me earlier this morning. It is with deep sadness and sorrow that I'm sharing the passing of my longtime friend and political commentator Candace. But I also can't shake the feeling that this wasn't simply a random tragedy. There are circumstances surrounding Candace's death, especially after Charlie's passing, that raise serious questions. And I hope the full truth comes to light. I want to respect your family's privacy, so I will refrain from sharing any further details. Please stay posted. So, you know, that seems like something you would post after someone had died. I mean, what are your thoughts on the sim?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I mean if someone died and their family did reach out to you saying, this person has died. Yeah, I guess. I, I don't. Well, first I wouldn't post, but like that, if it did happen, I would, I would take that as confirmation that the person is dead. I can't believe that this is. That you would just put something up like this. If it's not true, though, it's total wild shit.

[Will Sommer]

It's crazy. And this is someone with like a pretty good following on, on X. I think she's. I don't have it in front of me, but probably like tens of thousands at least in terms of followers. And I think a lot of people thought, oh my gosh, Candace died. And like the thing I want to get into here because she later says, oh, this wasn't me. Someone else had control of my account. But there's an important aspect in conspiracy theory culture of like, like news getting out too soon or like embargoes being. Like, they believe that everything is kind of prepped and that sometimes it slips out too early. So like with the 2020 election, there would be like a news outlet was like running a practice of their election software and they'd inadvertently post like Biden wins a week early. And then when Biden did win, people said, oh my gosh, you know, this was all staged and the information leaked out early. And so in this case, Candace says, I'm not dead. Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. Can we throw up that Candace, that Candace post so she says, thank you all for the messages of concern, but I am not dead. If I were, it would be entirely appropriate for you to have blamed Israel and this shrugging emoji. Somewhat relatedly, Charlie Kirk was not concerned he was going to be killed by a transgender furry after a full day of arguing with Zionists about him abandoning a couple. Okay, so she, she, she, you know, put that back.

[Sam Stein]

What is the transgender furry concerning her about?

[Will Sommer]

Well, that's, that's related to the, the actual alleged assassin of Charlie Kirk. You know, he had these, these furry connections. And so she's saying, you know, basically like, you know, Charlie Kirk predicted he would be killed by Israel. And so in this case, Lily Gaddis. Lily Gaddis comes out and says, you know what? That wasn't me who posted that. I'll tell you, I'll tell you who it was. And folks. Oh, yeah, here we go. Okay, the only.

[Sam Stein]

We can't read this whole thing.

[Will Sommer]

We're not going to read it. We're not going to read it. We're just going to say the only two people who have ever had access to my ex account is the guy who made my YouTube thumbnails, whatever, and Jordan Daly. Now, Jordan Daly, longtime false flyer, close false flag and trio Consumers will remember Jordan Daley. Is that long ago. It was last week. You're right.

[Sam Stein]

We'll remember all of a week ago.

[Will Sommer]

There's deep lore here. Jordan Daly is a new character in our discussions. He's the guy who was the alleged fake Secret Service agent palling around with Ryan Fournier. He was also doing some kind of like, social media management for right wing influencers, I guess, including Lily Gaddis. And so she's saying, Jordan Daly sent this. He's gone rogue. He's, you know, he's talking to the Bulwark about how Ryan Fortier betrayed him and things like that. Now, Jordan says, I'm innocent. I didn't do it. But this is the sort of twisted web that we're dealing with here in terms of this Candace death hoax.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, my God. Okay, so I'm just trying to unpack this. The, the, the idea here is that Jordan Daly had access to Lily's Twitter account, wrote a tweet as a sort of haha to like, I don't know, get it, like spread, stir the pot, like make, make it funny that Candace had died. Make it heartfelt and. Yeah, that's the story.

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, in these cases. Well, what's the other?

[Sam Stein]

I don't Know, what's the other ver. Like, what's the other explanation?

[Will Sommer]

Well, you know, look, this story set the tongues wagging. And so people like Milo Yiannopoulos weighed in and he said, well, you know, was this a candid to Candace? Get Lilly in on it to stir the pot. Just get a little Candace clout over the weekend. His theory was, you know, perhaps Lily Gaddis herself did this to just, you know, we're talking about Lily Gaddis a lot more than we did before. So, you know, it's hard to know with these things, but really, nothing is off limits in this.

[Candace Owens]

This.

[Will Sommer]

This universe. They'll.

[Candace Owens]

They'll.

[Will Sommer]

They'll even start a fake death hoax about their old buddy.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, Geez. Well, this is madness. I'm gonna get back to this in one second. I just want to take a moment to let people know that I am monitoring the chat while I'm talking with Will. And for one chatter in particular, who's being a real pain in the ass. Major Frank Burns 4007. You're getting removed, buddy. We like our chats to be fun and interactive. You don't have to be a jerk in the chats, okay? I can't believe I have to be principling this shit. Get out of here. And people, if you're in the chats, we love you. Just keep it cool, though, okay? Keep it cool. Let's have fun. Let's be adults here, okay? Let's have a good experience. And look for the folks who are in the chats right now saying thank you. This is part of the job app. I am trying to monitor the chats while also talking to Will. But let's just keep it cool, okay?

[Will Sommer]

Yeah, Sam's not a. We're working on being a pro streamer, folks. We're looking to get Sam, like, the lights and the light up keyboard and the multiple monitors, and he can be playing Call of Duty like, we're getting there, but, you know, it takes.

[Sam Stein]

I'm not. Look, I'm not gonna say I'm like, you know, I'm not saying it's like a great skill or anything, but it does take some skill to talk to you. Pretend like I'm actually listening, which I'm not, and monitor the chats and plug your book. Book and read Superpowers.

[Will Sommer]

Yes. And of course, Sam, today we need to plug the book. We gotta goose the number. Ah.

[Sam Stein]

Someone in the chats did say they bought your book, so I. I thank you. Yeah, There you go.

[Greg Bevino]

All right.

[Sam Stein]

So why did Lily do this. I don't know. What, what is the point of this attention seeking nonsense? I don't know, but it's like these people, do they recognize that they're like, kind of freaks and that this is weird behavior? Does anyone ever say, oh, I shouldn't have done that. That was stupid.

[Will Sommer]

You know, here's my analysis. After dealing with many of these people, I think they can recognize that one another are freaks or that they see, they see the other person as a freak. They themselves are blameless in these interactions, but they can say that person is very, you know, they have a defective personality, they're a maniac, but they, they typically, there's very little introspection.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fair enough.

[Will Sommer]

And thank goodness, right?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. No, it's good for your business. It's not good for society, though. No, I just, it doesn't, it doesn't compute to me that I someone to go on Twitter and be like, it's a deep sadness after I've talked to her family that so and so has died and it's like, clearly not true. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Like, why would you do something so stupid and reckless? Dumb dumbs. But hey, it's good for business. All right, last thing I want to talk about is our guy, your favorite presidential candidate, Greg Bevino. Yes. So he and Will wrote about this. He's kind of teasing that he's going to do a 2028 run. And like, you know, he's also piling around with legit Nazis. And we were kind of talking about, well, is there an appetite for this type of fascism? And I think the answer we kind of settled on was, yeah, there's, there's certainly an appetite for it. And also Bavina seems to be kind of milking it. Right? So here he is on over the weekend talking about one of his favorite world leader historical figures. Let's play the, let's play the video.

[Candace Owens]

Hello, folks. Commander Bovino here. I'm in Romania and behind me is a statue of Vlad Tepes, otherwise known as Vlad the Impaler or as in popular fiction, Dracula. Something that Vlad Tepe guys did that I find very inspiring is he was the original border patrol, if you will, of Romania. He took care of his people. He took care of his people against invaders. Whether they were those Turkish Muslim invaders or anyone else that wanted to do bad things to his people. He did something about it. Remigration and mass deportations. Along the same lines, we take care of our people. We care about our people. We love our country, we love Our traditions and our culture.

[Will Sommer]

It's insane that. That's his voice, by the way.

[Sam Stein]

Like, hey, guys, you know, Dracula's my hero, Vlad the Impaler.

[Candace Owens]

Hey,

[Sam Stein]

so that's just insane. I just got to be clear about this. I'm gonna read you a little PBS breakdown of Vlad the Impaler, okay? Bear with me right now, because Vlad the impaler was a 15th century Romanian prince.

[Greg Bevino]

The.

[Sam Stein]

We're going to get to a little trivia in a second. Vlad Tepes, or Vladimir, was the original Dracula. Born to a time of strife between two great powers, the Austrian Habsburgs and the Ottoman Turks. Some Romanians. The 15th century Prince of Wallachia and Transylvania is still a hero, and apparently to Greg Bovino, too. According to Romanian lore, Vlad was just. Was a just man who defended his people from Turkish invaders and German merchants. When most surrounding principalities had surrendered to Ottoman rule. Prince insisted that everybody, from the nobles to the peasants, submit to his rule or face dire consequences. The poor who didn't suffer from one of his draconian and frequently capricious acts, loved him for this. Dracula was the honorific given to the lad Tepes because, like his father before him, he belonged to the Order of the Dragon, dedicated to fighting Turks and heretics. Later, people called him Dracul, meaning. Meaning devil, because the dragon symbolized the devil. A real life fiend. Vlad the Impaler killed between blank and blank people. An unfathomable man at the time when murders were done singly and by hand. So what? Well, if you had to guess how many people Vlad the Impaler killed during his reign, I'm giving you a range. What would the range be?

[Will Sommer]

2,500 to a thousand?

[Sam Stein]

40,000 to a hundred thousand people? The world population then was not quite that large. That's an unfathomable number of people. This is the dude. Greg Bavino's like, yeah, that's my guy.

[Will Sommer]

I wish we had known when he was in the administration again, kind of like Tulsi Gabbard. Like, I wish we had known in the Administrator that. That Vlad the Pale Impaler, AKA Dracula, was a personal hero of his.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I don't know. Can you. Can you, like, can you. Can you create a campaign platform with, like, Vlad the Impaler as sort of like your symbol of hope?

[Will Sommer]

The original border Patrol. How he's like, I model my border patrol on Dracula.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, okay. You got my vote. You would, Tulsi. See, we got a guru. That's the ticket. It's Bavino and Tulsi the question is, who's. Who's on top of it? I think. I think I go with Bavina. I don't think Bavina is going to run as anyone's veep. Tulsi will be the cult, and cult Tulsi will be the cults, and Bavino bring the fascists. Okay, 52 minutes, man. Any last parting thoughts? Oh, we got an announcement.

[Will Sommer]

We should tell him. Yes. Yeah. So mega Monday will not happen next week because I will be.

[Sam Stein]

Well, it will happen next week.

[Will Sommer]

It will happen, just not on Monday.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Why would you say it's not gonna happen next week? And just gonna depress a lot of people. Will is. Will is going to his homeland, Aspen, Colorado, where he just spends most of his weekends.

[Will Sommer]

So, yes, I'll be at the. I'll be at the Aspen Ideas Festival. So if you're there, come by and check out the Bulwark Show.

[Sam Stein]

Have they ever had someone associated with so many dumb ideas appear at the Aspen Ideas Festival?

[Will Sommer]

You know, I. I'm presenting the bad ideas. I'll. I'll be. Typically, it's only good ideas, but they thought, well, why not all ideas? It is the Aspen Ideas Festival, so.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, cool.

[Candace Owens]

But we'll.

[Sam Stein]

We're gonna. We're gonna try to make the show up on either Tuesday or. Did we say Tuesday? I think we're aiming for Tuesday, right?

[Will Sommer]

I think so.

[Sam Stein]

We're aiming for Tuesday. We're going to try to swap with morning shots live. Let them go on Monday. We'll go on MAGA Tuesday. And then finally, just to address a few people in the comment section, someone's asking if I'm okay because I'm coughing a lot. The answer is yes. I had a bagel before we went on air, and I have a little bit of a sesame seed in my throat. That's it. I'm fine. And secondly, people are happy about me donning a principal's cap and policing the comments section. I'm going to leave you with my inspiration for this. I don't know if people are into peloton, but Kendall Tool that. That's my inspiration here. So let's play her. And this will be our outro. Thank you.

[Benny Johnson]

Banned.

[Sam Stein]

Get them banned. We don't do that here. Oh, now I'm pissed

[Will Sommer]

on a peloton. We should just be like,

[Sam Stein]

that's me. Police in the comments. All right, everyone, thank you for tuning into MAGA Mondays. We'll see you on Tuesday. Next Tuesday.

[Will Sommer]

Thanks, everyone. Bye.