13: Tim Miller: We're Still Stuck In 2020!

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Episode 13 - Tim Miller: We're Still Stuck In 2020!

Release Date: June 28, 2025

In this compelling episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller delves deep into the lingering repercussions of the tumultuous year 2020, exploring how its aftermath continues to shape the current political and media landscape. Joined by a co-host, Miller dissects recent developments involving prominent political figures and media entities, providing insightful analysis and raising critical questions about the state of American democracy and free speech.

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1. The Time Warp of 2020

Tim Miller opens the discussion by expressing a profound sense of being "stuck in 2020," suggesting that the events and divisions of that year have created a persistent time warp affecting today's political climate.

Tim Miller [01:30]: "We're in a time warp. We are in a time warp. I think time is a flat circle. We are never going to get out of 2020."

He emphasizes that the consequences of 2020 are not merely in the past but are actively influencing current events and discourse.

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2. Gavin Newsom's Lawsuit Against Fox News

One of the primary stories covered is California Governor Gavin Newsom's recent decision to sue Fox News for $787 million. Miller connects this lawsuit to the earlier Dominion case, suggesting a pattern of holding Fox accountable for perceived misinformation.

Gavin Newsom [07:01]: "I just filed a lawsuit against Fox News for lies, for deceit, for... for misrepresentation. Enough of their lies will see them in court."

Miller critiques the lawsuit as a potentially "frivolous" attempt to extract financial penalties from Fox, drawing parallels to Fox's substantial settlement with Dominion over similar allegations.

Tim Miller [07:18]: "Fox almost had to pay a billion dollars over their... over the advancement of these lies back in 2020. And still now, five years later, we have Lindell TV and the president himself pushing those same lines."

He also discusses the strategic and ethical dilemmas posed by such lawsuits, questioning their efficacy and potential impact on media freedom.

Tim Miller [10:53]: "From the strategic standpoint, I'm kind of torn because I don't even know if it's really good strategy or not."

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3. Donald Trump's Press Conference with a Controversial Reporter

Another focal point of the episode is Donald Trump's recent press conference featuring a reporter affiliated with Pillow Talk and Mike Lindell's network. The interaction highlights ongoing attempts to propagate the unfounded claims of the 2020 election being "rigged" and "stolen."

Tim Miller [03:43]: "Reporters still asking, what, the 2020 election and the guy wins again. They're still obsessed with this reporter again."

The co-host condemns the reporter's questions and underlying motives, pointing out her connections to known propagandists and her role in perpetuating misleading narratives.

Co-host [04:28]: "Is, you know, a front woman for Mike Lindell, who's a liar, was an admitted liar in court when it comes to his advocacy for the big lie around 2020."

Miller criticizes the use of such platforms for advancing propaganda, highlighting the detrimental effects on public discourse and trust in democratic institutions.

Tim Miller [04:55]: "This person gets this platform to do just blatant, shameless propaganda... They're not caring whether it's true or not."

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4. The Endurance of the "Big Lie"

A central theme of the episode is the enduring nature of the "big lie" regarding the 2020 election's integrity. Miller and his co-host express frustration and concern over its persistent presence in political rhetoric and media.

Tim Miller [10:07]: "The big lie persists is so fucking horrific. It's so awful."

They discuss the emotional toll and the challenges it poses to restoring factual accuracy and public trust.

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5. Media Accountability and the First Amendment

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of using legal actions against media organizations. Both hosts express apprehension about the potential erosion of the First Amendment protections due to such lawsuits.

Co-host [10:27]: "I am horrified by the ways that CBS and ABC and these folks have been folding to Donald Trump's threats to the First Amendment."

Miller voices his concerns about the slippery slope of holding media accountable for inaccuracies, questioning the balance between combating misinformation and preserving free speech.

Tim Miller [10:39]: "Do I really want Democrats playing in this sandbox, too? Like, what is the good that's gonna end?"

They ponder the long-term consequences of a legal environment where media institutions might be deterred from critical reporting due to fear of litigation.

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6. Ethical and Strategic Dilemmas

Miller reflects on the personal conflict between his emotional response to the propagation of lies and the ethical considerations of engaging in similar tactics. He grapples with the morality of suing media outlets while advocating for truth and integrity.

Tim Miller [10:53]: "I don't think this is right... I'm opposed to this in principle."

He seeks feedback from listeners on whether such strategies are effective or counterproductive, highlighting the complexity of addressing misinformation without compromising foundational democratic values.

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7. Closing Remarks and Call to Action

In concluding the episode, Miller and his co-host reiterate their disdain for the ongoing spread of misinformation and the individuals perpetuating it. They call for thoughtful strategies to combat these issues without infringing on free speech or democratic principles.

Tim Miller [11:42]: "These guys speaking of Trump, Mike Lindell, Fox, Jesse Waters should all be ashamed of themselves."

They emphasize the importance of addressing these challenges constructively and urge listeners to engage in meaningful discourse to restore truth and accountability in the public sphere.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [01:30]: "We're in a time warp. We are in a time warp. I think time is a flat circle. We are never going to get out of 2020."

• Gavin Newsom [07:01]: "I just filed a lawsuit against Fox News for lies, for deceit, for... for misrepresentation. Enough of their lies will see them in court."

• Tim Miller [10:07]: "The big lie persists is so fucking horrific. It's so awful."

• Co-host [10:27]: "I am horrified by the ways that CBS and ABC and these folks have been folding to Donald Trump's threats to the First Amendment."

---

Conclusion

Episode 13 of Bulwark Takes offers a poignant examination of how the echoes of 2020 continue to reverberate through today's political and media landscapes. Through incisive analysis and candid discussion, Tim Miller and his co-host shed light on the persistent misinformation, legal battles, and ethical quandaries that challenge the fabric of American democracy. The episode serves as a call to action for listeners to remain vigilant, uphold truth, and navigate the complexities of free speech in an era defined by enduring divisions and relentless propaganda.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here. We're in a time warp. We are in a time warp. I think time is a flat circle. We are never going to get out of 2020. We are going to be doomed to relive it and to deal with the consequences of 2020, I think for the.

[Co-host]

Rest of my days, at least in the political world.

[Tim Miller]

And we saw that today, There are two stories I wanted to point to.

[Co-host]

To leave you with here on a Friday afternoon.

[Tim Miller]

Kick off your weekend. Gavin Newsom suing Fox News for the exact amount of money that Fox News had to pay Dominion. And Donald Trump at his press conference this morning having a flirtatious exchange with a reporter.

[Co-host]

Reporter works for Pillow Crackhead Mike Lindell's.

[Tim Miller]

News network, if you want to call it that. And I'll explain why these two things.

[Co-host]

Are combined here after we go through each of them.

[Tim Miller]

But the short of it is we have this asymmetric warfare happening where the.

[Co-host]

Trump world and the Fox world is all in on lies.

[Tim Miller]

All in on absurd lies. They don't care whether it's true or not. They don't Care if they get sued.

[Co-host]

They'Re paddle to the metal.

[Tim Miller]

And then the other side is figuring out how to.

[Co-host]

How to punch back.

[Tim Miller]

And Gavin is offering a model that I have some issues with. We'll explain that at the end.

[Co-host]

You know, continuing to try to deal with the fucking lunacy that is coming from maga, from Fox, from Trump himself.

[Tim Miller]

So it all makes sense on the end. Let's. Let's start by watching the exchange of.

[Co-host]

Trump in the press briefing room this morning.

[Reporter]

Is there any more information on the special prosecutor? So many Americans still have questions about the 2020 election. And speaking of rogue judges, would you consider appointing somebody at DOJ maybe to investigate the judges that allowed for the political persecution of you, your family, and your supporters during the Biden administration?

[Trump Supporter]

I love you.

[Reporter]

Who are you from Lindell tv?

[Trump Supporter]

Well, it's a very nice question, and it's not a setup. I have no idea who you are, but I appreciate that question. All I can say is we're not here for that. I hope so. I hope they're doing a thing because that election was rigged and stolen, and we can't allow that to happen.

[Tim Miller]

Reporters still asking, what, the 2020 election and the guy wins again. They're still obsessed with this reporter again. But the interesting question here is what he's pointing at. The judges, the rogue, the. The judges that adjudicated accurately the fact that the election was normal, the fact that the election did not have any tampering, that there was nothing to see here with the election. The judges who did their job, who spoke the truth, who upheld their oath. This fucking hack, this embarrassing hack who.

[Co-host]

Is, you know, a front woman for Mike Lindell, who's a liar, was an admitted liar in court when it comes to his advocacy for the big lie around 2020.

[Tim Miller]

She wants to punish the people who did the right thing. Why might that be? Well, maybe because Mike Lindell was in.

[Co-host]

Court recently getting humiliated by a judge who was dealing in facts and dealing in reality.

[Tim Miller]

So that's one element to this. And the other element you have is Trump.

[Co-host]

Just like with the. Oh, I love this question. I love you. Who are you?

[Tim Miller]

Oh, it's a nice question.

[Co-host]

It's not a setup.

[Trump Supporter]

Well, it's just a very nice question. And it's not a setup that this.

[Tim Miller]

Person gets this platform to do just blatant, shameless propaganda. Not even like soft propaganda like you see on Fox, like shameless. I am going to not only advance lies for you, sir. Mr. President, but I'm gonna ask you if you can act on those lies in a way to punish people who were just acting appropriately, doing their job.

[Co-host]

Upholding their oath, which, you know, Trump likes that.

[Tim Miller]

Trump likes having somebody out there on.

[Co-host]

The edge pushing even further than him. You know, there might be some other things that somebody who has been incredibly accused of dozens of instances of sexual harassment and assault might like about this woman as well.

[Tim Miller]

Now we got to Gavin, and Gavin is. Has filed a $787 million lawsuit against Fox News. The lawsuit is related to a segment where Donald Trump said that he and Gavin, you know, Gavin had claimed that Trump did not call him before sending the military in. Trump said he did.

[Gavin Newsom]

Gavin Newsom tweeted the following. He said, quote, there was no call, not even a voicemail. Americans should be alarmed that a president deploying Marines on our streets doesn't even know who he's talking to. Well, President Trump contacted me from Air Force One on his way to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he'll be in just a little while. He said the first call to Gavin Newsom was not picked up. The second call, Gavin picked up. We spoke for 16 minutes. I told him to essentially, quote, this is quoting the President, get his ass in gear and stop the riots, which were out of control. More than anything else, this shows what a liar he is. Said I never called. So here is the evidence, and here is the call log that the President sent me from his phone. This was June 7th. Now, granted, this was on Saturday.

[Tim Miller]

Trump got the dates wrong. He's an old man, forgetful. Fox News ran Trump's, you know, spin for him, you know, and basically and called Gavin a liar and said that Trump had been calling him when.

[Co-host]

When all evidence shows that. That he hadn't, or at least. At least he hadn't, you know, within the time period that he claimed.

[Tim Miller]

And so Gavin suing. It's cute.

[Co-host]

It's a cute little press release.

[Gavin Newsom]

I just filed a lawsuit against Fox News for lies, for deceit, for. For misrepresentation. Enough of their lies will see them in court.

[Tim Miller]

He's going to sue for the exact same number the Fox already had to pay dominion about those 2020 lies that are being still spread in the White.

[Trump Supporter]

House briefing room because that election was rigged and stolen.

[Tim Miller]

I guess. It's unbelievable. Fox almost had to pay a billion dollars over their. Over the advancement of these lies back in 2020. And still now, five years later, we have Lindell TV and the president himself pushing those same lines. So, Gavin, in this cheeky effort, the press is going to sit down to press release. A lawsuit, a formal legal document saying he's going to sue them for 787.

[Co-host]

Million says that he will pull that back if Jesse Waters will apologize. Jesse Waters, who, by the way, just today on the Five, I was watching a clip of him do some racist joke about Jasmine Crockett, how he wants to set her up with a white man and how she might not do that. Like, he's just so gross.

[Tim Miller]

So, I mean, I'd like to see.

[Co-host]

Jesse Waters apologize, too.

[Tim Miller]

I do wonder.

[Co-host]

This is really more of a question. I'd like to get feedback from everybody.

[Tim Miller]

Because, like, there is a visceral element to the Gambin thing that you like. You know, I like to see. You know, it's like, you know, good for the goose, good for the gander type thing, right? You're going to file these frivolous lawsuits at ABC and CBS and pressure them. And funny, I'll start throwing some bullets, you know, I'll start firing off some. Some lawsuits about your lies. Like in this case, Fox actually did.

[Co-host]

Said a lie, you know, as opposed to, you know, George Stephanopoulos, like, not being exactly legally precise in his description of. Of what Donald Trump did to Eugene Carol, which was colloquially, you know, a sexual assault.

[Tim Miller]

The other side of me, though, is like, we're going to the bad place. As a media, as a commentator, do I want now even the Democrats putting a rubber stamp on the idea, endorsing the idea, the journalists get things wrong who make a comment that isn't, you know, exactly accurate, that opinion commentators that are popping off all the time, they can be sued, they can be taken to court if they're commenting on what's happening to public figures. Like, there's always this very, very, very high bar for public figures because they know that there's gonna be discussion about them. And there's good reason, right? It's different. Like, you, as. As whatever Jane Doe, you. You have a lot lower bar for a lawsuit where you. You talk about how you've been smeared and libeled because it could really impact your reputation. A politician is like, putting themselves out there in a way that they're making a choice to understand that they'll be in the public discourse, that people will make accusations about them. So anyway, in this country, in England, the rule is very different. In other countries, it's very different. But in this country, there's been kind.

[Co-host]

Of a laissez faire attitude towards rhetoric about public figures, and I think that's a good thing. I like the First Amendment element of this. I Am horrified by the ways that CBS and ABC and these folks have been folding to Donald Trump's threats to the First Amendment.

[Tim Miller]

And I think it's disgusting the fact.

[Co-host]

That these supposed free speech warriors are doing a direct assault on the First Amendment by targeting media institutions to challenge them.

[Tim Miller]

And so given that context, it's like, do I really want Democrats playing in this sandbox, too? Like, what is the good that's gonna end?

[Co-host]

Gavin Newsom's not gonna win this lawsuit.

[Tim Miller]

You wouldn't think even if he did. We've already seen that Fox. Fox soldiers on, like, losing a lawsuit has not done anything to temper their behavior. So I don't know. I'm torn about it. I understand. Essentially, I have, like, an emotional response. It's like, yeah, Gavin, get them. And I also. And I have a. My judgment, my sort of ethical judgment says, no, I don't think this is right. Like, I'm opposed to this in principle. And then from the strategic standpoint, I'm kind of torn because I don't even know if it's really good strategy or not. So, yeah, so let me know in the comments. And the main takeaway is the fact that the big lie persists is so fucking horrific. It's so awful.

[Co-host]

These guys speaking of Trump, Mike Lindell, Fox, Jesse Waters should all be ashamed of themselves.

[Tim Miller]

But that's the world we're living in. So we got to figure out what.

[Co-host]

The right way to combat it is.

[Tim Miller]

Appreciate everybody.

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[Trump Supporter]

Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot crispy fries right as they're being scooped into the carton and time just stands still?

[Tim Miller]

Bada mad.