← Bulwark Takes
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- [00:00]
A
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- [00:59]
B
Hey, everybody, it's Tim Miller from the Bull Work here with my buddy Andrew Egger. I am hopping on here before they kick me out of this hotel room. So we wanted to go fast on this live. Tulsi Gabbard is out. As our friend Joel says in the comments there, another one is gone. All four women out. Gabard, Bondi, gnome. And do you remember the fourth, Andrew?
- [01:26]
C
Oh, I was thinking of the ones who are still there. Sorry.
- [01:29]
B
Chavez, Durammer, labor out. Lori out. Four women cabinet members, four out. Tulsi has put out a resignation statement, we should say. She cited her husband has a rare form of bone cancer, which does seem pretty, pretty bad. And I think that I'm sure that personal considerations played a role here, but I'm not sure. Played the only role. But Andrew, what is, what's your top research reaction to the news of Tulsi getting the boot?
- [01:57]
C
Yeah, I mean, this is not completely unsurprising. I mean, I guess the news of her husband is unsurprising, but we've been sort of wondering whether there's gonna be some sort of decoupling of Tulsi Gabbard from this administration basically since the beginning of the Iran war. Right. I mean, it's been widely reported that she's been basically sidelined. And obviously her whole sort of back when Donald Trump was assembling a super team back during the 2024 election where he was bolting on all sorts of new constituencies. He was bolting on the maha people and RFK Jr. The crunchy health folks over as he was preparing to assemble his Department of Health and Human Services. And Tulsi was one of these people, along with the vice president, J.D. vance, one of these people who really represented this sort of anti neo con, sort of isolationist dovish wing of this new MAGA constituency, where she was one of the people who was advancing the argument Trump's the kind of guy who keeps us out of Warsaw, ends wars, tries to do all of that stuff. That has been a really hard argument to make during the second term because as it has turned out, Trump has actually loved throwing American power around in somewhat smaller ways or at least in somewhat more limited ways during year one and then obviously in enormously impactful and sort of world altering ways now in year two. Meanwhile, Tulsi has been kind of shunted into this secondary role where rather than her job as sort of the top intelligence chief being having her ears to the ground for all these different conflicts around the world, she has been very much more directed, internally directed toward running these sorts of anti Trump opponent operations, digging into 2020 stop the steal type stuff and sort of various other acts of Trump era weaponization. And so that stuff's getting less popular. She does not have and has not had the President's ear on Iran. So even setting aside this terrible stuff about her husband's health, it is not exactly a surprise to see her splitting.
- [03:58]
B
Yeah, the other character you mentioned there is Joe Kent. And I guess that's the one person potentially in addition to Tulsi, depending on how much, you know, you take at face value the statement she put out who volunteered to leave and I mean, Joe Kent left on much more harsh terms than what Tulsi had to say. We have the Tulsi statement. Why don't we go ahead and put that up there? You know, she, unlike Joe Kent's, did not like put a long screed there implying nefarious actors controlling the President of the United States. But she is, you know, part of, as you said, that kind of wing, that faction of MAGA that seems to be completely sidelined by this administration because of the war in Iran. And I think that's pretty noteworthy. And you combine that with, remember I remembering the image of Tulsi and J.D. vance sitting at like the kids table at the beginning of the Iran war that they put out because people were like when they were all down at Marlin Lago planning the early days of the Iran war. There was some buzz about, like, well, where was the Vice president? Where was the Director of National Intelligence? And like, they put out this, like, picture of them, like. Like a V. Fish situation where they were back in D.C. like, watching on a little TV while the. While the. Big. While the decision makers were all down in Florida. And I think that is, like, reflective of where we are. And. And really, like, JD Is like the representative person now left from that faction. And he was always more of a line straddler.
- [05:28]
C
Yeah, yeah. And he can't leave. I mean, he physically can't go anywhere. Right. I mean, he's genuinely stuck there if he wants to have any sort of political future at all. I mean, just to kind of put a fine point on this, Tulsi, she really is. She hails from this sort of, like, leftish tradition of being extremely sort of skeptical of the Democratic Party, getting more sort of comfortable with muscular foreign policy abroad. She's not like a hippie. I mean, she's a little bit of a hippie, a little bit of a peacenik, but she herself is a veteran. Right. She's not like, she wasn't going around putting flowers in the barrels of guns or anything like that. But even when she was a Democrat, when she ran for president as a Democrat, this was a humongous part of her brand. And not only a humongous part of her brand, but a humongous part of why she switched over. I mean, the whole narrative of why she became maga, why she became Trumpy, was that she was uncomfortable with this warlike direction that the Democratic Party was going and she was gonna become. She was actually really confident that now it was Trump, now it's Trump and Trump's people and the new look Republican Party that were gonna be this party of rest. And it just has. I mean, like, you can make this argument, you can look at the comparison between her and Joe Kent because it just hasn't panned out that way. Right. Joe Kent is somebody who. There are unrelated reasons why he's sort of like, crazy and probably does not have a super sort of broad political future in the Republican Party or anything like that. I don't know, maybe he will. But as far as the timing of the stuff is concerned, he timed it pretty well. He got out pretty much right at the beginning of this thing, basically saying, I think this is a mistake. I think this is gonna become a boondog. And it has.
- [07:04]
B
Yeah, show me the lie.
- [07:05]
C
Right, exactly. He other. Other than his, like, propensity for, you know, conspiracy theories, and screeds on Tucker and all these different things. That part.
- [07:14]
B
But even some of those theories kind of seem to be true. I mean, you know, he put out his statement about the way that Israel was influenced the war before we learned that Bibi was in the Situation Room.
- [07:23]
C
Yeah.
- [07:23]
B
And like, Trump himself is putting out statements, basically saying, like, thank you to the leaders of Qatar and UAE for telling me what to do in foreign policy. And like, the people. I have a 90% approval rating in Israel.
- [07:36]
C
Right. I mean, I only bring jokin up in this moment to illustrate that was a moment at which Tulsi could have taken the same road. And it took her a minute, it took her a day before she basically weighed in and said, Joe, Ken's got to do what Joe Kim's got to do. But I'm with the president. And at that point, she was kind of ride or die. She's like, I passed this exit ramp. I'm going to try to stick it out here. And then the Iran war kept going and kept going and looking worse and worse and worse. And that decision seems not to have aged well. So, again, I. This is all, all of our analysis here is complicated by and has to exist in the shadow of this medical diagnosis that she's saying. It's impossible to say to what extent that is like, the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of her being here or whether it really is like she would have stuck it out forever but for this. But it is true that, like, you know, she was taking on water as sort of like a political commodity all, all through this Iran war after that point.
- [08:33]
B
I mean, she was selling no war with Iran T shirts during her 2020 campaign, you know, and then gets totally sidelined. So I don't. Look, I think that this is, you know, regardless of the extent of, you know, the medical diagnosis informing this, like, all of the other political factors here show that the isolationist wing of Trump's administration is totally on the outs. And I think that that's a big political loss for, for him and a big political opportunity for the Democrats to try to take back this mantle. And I think that the Democrats, in a ways, unfairly were kind of branded as the, like, warmongering party, you know, because, you know, like, they were, like, pushing back against, like, Trump's, like, most insane isolationist views and conspiracy theories about Ukraine and elsewhere. But now I think there's this opportunity to, like, recapture some of those voters.
- [09:23]
C
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, and, yeah, and like, the Ukraine stuff and the Russia stuff I mean it was like weird little like oblique scenarios that were not like boots on the ground situations for Americans or anything like that. But did let Trump kind of outfit flank the Democrats to sort of the ah, it's not our conflict, we shouldn't be bothering about it at all type side. And yeah, that's all scrambled by obviously by Iran.
- [09:45]
B
I have one really piece of good news and one reason I'm particularly happy that Tulsi's on the way out. But we do have to play an ad and you might be notice I'm sniffling. I had, I had. We're in California. It's a very habanero quesadilla this morning. Breakfast quesadilla, very yummy. But I'm having trouble dealing with the heat so we're gonna watch an ad. We'll be back on the other side for my favorite reason why Telse's gone.
- [10:10]
D
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- [11:38]
B
all right, I promised you my favorite reason Tulsi's gone. We also have some interesting information about her replacement I want to get into in a second. But Egger, I like to look at the positive side from time to time because it's not my usual M.O. you know, and I like to think back to like in the early days of 2025, like, what was I most worried about with the administration. And like, there are two things that really haven't come to pass that I was acutely worried about. One, I thought they would be much better at their revenge campaign going after the enemies list than they are. Cassius seemed to want to do chug beers with hockey players more than he has wanted to put together compelling investigations of Trump's foes. They're falling back on the seashells and sorry that Jim Comey has to go through that, but it's not exactly like reign of terror type material coming out of the FBI. Similarly, I was worried about the spying powers of the intelligence. You know, that this is a lot of this is black box to have somebody like Tulsi there that had ties to Syria, ties to Russia. You know, we just didn't really know like the degree that she might have been in there feeding things to our enemies, spying on Americans. And again, we don't really know exactly what she's been doing. But like the idea that Tulsi goes from like that, like kind of scary version of what we could have got to this totally impotent, sidelined, national security, excuse me, national intelligence advisor who's like hiding in the corner. Is there like going through ballots from five years ago? It's not great. It's corrupt, it's shameful, embarrassing. But it's not the worst case scenario that we could have had.
- [13:19]
C
Yeah, I mean, certainly you can imagine worse scenarios. I do sort of see it as sort of a split screen where she genuinely was sidelined and rendered impotent on a lot of this stuff. That was the stuff she would have liked to be doing, like the peacenik type stuff, the sort of anti war type stuff which she tried to do, if you'll remember, very early in her tenure. I don't remember exactly, it was some video that she cut, basically just sort of talking about turning the corner on this era of sort of global conflict and all these sorts of things refocusing at home. But I do think that what Trump did like her for, and the reason why Trump kept her around until she was wanting to step aside, was that she was just an extremely enthusiastic and pliable and biddable director of National Intelligence. When it came to the stuff that he actually wants to focus that stuff on, which is his political enemies at home and relitigating the 2020 election and relitigating the beginnings of the Russiagate probe, all of these sorts of things where she genuinely did kind of move the needle for him. Right. I mean, she really, really did comb over a lot of that stuff. A lot of the beginnings of the Russia investigation. She was doing everything that she could to sort of scoop up stuff muck rake up for in Fulton County, Georgia, when the FBI raided Fulton county, she was Trump's point man on the ground there when they raided Fulton County's election office, I should say just six months ago or something, whenever that was. And I'm a little hesitant to declare that chapter sort of like inconsequentially over, because a lot of this stuff is ongoing. Right. I mean, it's possible. It's possible that they just have come up with nothing and they don't know how to announce they've come up with nothing, and therefore they're continuing to sort of string their people along because they don't know what else to do, basically saying, yeah, we're going to see arrests of election workers any day now, that sort of thing. But it's also possible that stuff is just really still in progress and they are continuing to lay the groundwork for these sorts of things. And that's something I just don't think we have enough information to know about yet.
- [15:19]
B
All right, well, there's a Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you element with Tulsi. So we'll see you later. Let's go to her successor now that's been announced. NIT twist in the comments says, glad she's gone. The next DNI will be worse. I don't know a lot about this gentleman Aaron Lucas. We want to pull up one tweet of his that I think might tell us something. Okay. We appreciate. Yeah. All right. He's very excited about the alien transparency. So did you go deep on the alien declassification documents, Andrew? Were you still.
- [16:01]
C
I can't say.
- [16:02]
B
I. I kind of was. You know, I. I wish that I could. You know, I think people have this perception of me as somebody who's really partying hard every weekend. But the. The Friday that it came out, I had no plans, and I have a friend who's into alien stuff, came over at the house, and my daughter was there. It was a Friday night. She had to stay up late. You know, children likes to hear about aliens. So we did sit around and like, do some alien talk and like pull up some of the pictures that they were assembling.
- [16:30]
C
Assembling one of those cork boards. String.
- [16:33]
B
We were just reviewing the pictures and I gotta tell you, I wasn't, I wasn't compelled. The moon is hollow says Abe Lincoln. No, I wasn't compelled by the material they put forth. We know this guy's from Cato, which is, you know, more of the isolationist swing of the right, sometimes for good, sometimes for ill. But, you know, I don't know if the alien declassification guy augurs wonderfully for where the direction of the department is going.
- [17:02]
C
Yeah, a little more isolationist, also a little more sort of like civil liberties focused, which now that you mention it, this is something like the other thing that we didn't even really talk about with Tulsi is that Tulsi's brand was not just no war, it was also this sort of civil libertarian streak that she had. And the fact that she has gone from that and then spent this entire tenure doing this like bizarro spying on Americans and muckraking, like I said, election workers and all these sorts of things, that's really a astonishing. And like the way she sort of pitched it as like, civil liberties for our, like brave elected officials, like Donald Trump's civil liberties were trampled on and therefore, you know, I need to use my perch now to do a bunch of like, retributive spying on a bunch of Americans. That's another sort of interesting wrinkle in the sort of don't let the door hit you in the way out file for all this, but we'll see how the successor does in that department.
- [17:58]
B
Yeah, Burgess Everett makes an interesting point about some of the political upshot of Gabbard leaving. That I think is worth kind of chewing over because related to your newsletter this morning and people, if you're not reading Andrew's Morning Shots newsletter, go to the Borg.com right now and sign up for it. And you were talking about the ways in which Trump has created a lot of problems for himself on the Hill with this revenge campaign going after Cassidy and Cornyn and Massie. He may have won the battle, but lost the war a little bit. There is more than we've seen in a while. Republican pushback to some of his priorities on the Hill and they have pretty narrow majorities, you add. Now on the top of that, Trump has three cabinet vacancies, labor, Attorney general, and now this. Confirming the DNI will require votes of people like John Cornyn and Bill Cassidy who he just snubbed. I think that there is some potential risks there and he doesn't have a ton of political capital with these guys as it is. I don't know, is that too Pollyanna to think about that?
- [19:08]
C
I don't think so. I think that these guys are still going to be predisposed to accepting broadly acceptable Republican candidates. I think if he were to try to put another batch of guys like the last ones he's put into these various roles, I don't think you could get a Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Or a Pete Hegseth or Akash Patel through the Senate today the way you could.
- [19:32]
B
Todd Blanche.
- [19:33]
C
Todd Blanche, yeah, well, right, exactly.
- [19:35]
B
That's going to be really tough.
- [19:37]
C
Yeah, it's going to be really tough if he even gets the full nomination at all. I think this is sort of blown up in his face. Some of these moves that were designed to keep Trump really charmed on Blanche's part now risk real blowback from the Senate because I mean, essentially what Trump has done is he's turned two more of these guys who were like pretty reliably with him anytime he needed them, Cassidy and Cornyn, he's turned them into lame ducks. Right. I mean they could have been still sort of reliably arm twistable Republicans for a whole nother term or for the rest of his presidency. And instead they're going out, they're not gonna be accountable to voters anyway. And so they have the ability to kind of just act on their own consciences and act under the auspices of their own judgment for the first time in a long time. And we have already seen from Cassidy what that looks like in practice. It is much more sort of saying what he feels about various initiatives of the president voting the way he feels. And they're not the only ones, right? I mean we've got Susan Collins, we've got Lisa Murkowski, we've got Thom Tillis, I mean those five. We've got Mitch McConnell who was extremely, extremely stridently against this anti weaponization fund.
- [20:44]
B
I think he has to be. I think Mitch McConnell has to be a little bit more alive to be stridently against anything. He's barely getting worse than. Yeah, I want to. We're going to close with some of the dire spooky warnings Tulsi has offer. And I have one other news item I want to get to but any other thoughts on unfortunately or any other political implications of Tulsi leaving or thoughts on how other is it a Men only, Men's only club now in the White House.
- [21:13]
C
Linda McMahon is still around, right?
- [21:14]
B
Oh, Linda McMahon. Yeah, the wrestling.
- [21:17]
C
She's the only one left. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, yeah, no, she's, she's still taking meritocracy.
- [21:22]
B
A real meritocracy in there.
- [21:24]
C
Right, right, right. No, I guess my only thought is like, she came in as a person who like, would have thought maybe if anybody can sort of like resist the gravitational pull of Trump and be like a force multiplier and somebody who adds on. It was people like her and RFK who thought like, Trump needs me to like, speak to a certain constituency. And that's why, you know, I might be able to like, live with one foot in this in a way that other people might not. Never works out, never happens. She was not able to do any of the stuff that was like her unique ad. She just became another MOOC for Trump. That's all the, that's all the work she got to do. And now she's gone, having been permanently tainted by that.
- [21:56]
B
I think the big political news is Democrats, this is your chance to get back the anti war voters who are pissed at you. Like, you have to do it, have to take advantage of this moment, Go on the weird manosphere shows, whatever. You just got to do what you got to do. Be stridently opposed to the stupid war and take the opportunity when you got it. Okay. Donald Trump made another announcement right before replacing Tulsi. And I just want to share that with you. This is on his, his social media account. While I very much wanted to be with my son, Don Jr. And the newest member of the Trump family, his soon to be wife, Bettina. Circumstances pertaining to the government and my love for the United States of America do not allow me to do so. I feel it, it's important for me to remain in Washington D.C. at the White House during this important period of time. Congratulations, Don and Bettina. A formal statement about not attending his son's wedding.
- [22:52]
C
That's just, I don't know, it's pretty.
- [22:54]
B
Yeah, my uncle, when he didn't show up to the, to my gay wedding, didn't decide to put out a formal press statement. He just, you know, just called my mom and was like, not going to be able to make it.
- [23:05]
C
Do you know where they're getting married? Like, how far of a trek would it be?
- [23:07]
B
The Bahamas, I believe.
- [23:08]
C
The Bahamas flyer, Force one down to the Bahamas. Yeah, it's a one day turnaround.
- [23:13]
B
You've noted he, he's done some golfing since the war started. 14 golf trips since the war started. 0 wedding attendance.
- [23:22]
C
The Bahamas is not a lot farther than Mar a Lago, right? I'm not, I'm not like a geography expert, but that's like maybe an hour, a little leg.
- [23:29]
B
It is wedding, too. I mean, it's kind of one of those situations which is like, do you want to go to Don Junior's second marriage wedding in the Bahamas? I don't, but he's not my son. I didn't create him. You know, it's tough. All right, well, no other wedding thoughts from you, Andrew. As a Christian, as a hard line Christian, the second marriage you have to look a little askance at. Or is that just the Catholics that are doing that? What's happening?
- [23:57]
C
We're not big fans. I would downgrade my registry buy for Donald Trump Jr. If he'd invited me to the, if he'd invited me to the second wedding. I think Donald Trump might not like the fiance very much. It was very funny when he was asked about this yesterday, and he sort of cast around in his brain for something nice to say about her. And the only thing he could say was, a person I've known for a long time. And he said, you know, hopefully it'll be like a really good, a really good marriage.
- [24:23]
B
So that's ringing.
- [24:24]
C
Endorsement from the president for Don Jr. Second wife.
- [24:27]
B
Our Busco here with a great point. We have to monitor his schedule this weekend aggressively now. It will be so delightful when he decides to hit the golf course instead of going to his son's wedding. There is some good news for John Junior, Though. I think that, you know, not having the Secret Service around, you know, in case you want some party supplies in the Bahamas, will be probably nice not to have all those cops around. All right, well, as kind of a parting G gift, we're going to leave you guys with something. You might remember that Tulsi warned us weirdly right around Christmas about the threat of nuclear war. And I have to say it's the one element of her departure that has me a little concerned because my, like, alarmism of Trump deciding to drop a nuke. You know, it's not, we're not in the red or the orange even, but I'm monitoring it. It's in the yellow. What about you? What, what, where are you? On the chance that Trump decides that he wants to have a nuke legacy?
- [25:23]
C
I'm going to be a nothing ever happens guy about the zero percent nukes. Zero percent chance. Why not?
- [25:29]
B
I'm a little higher than you shoot my shot. So I'm a little concerned about it. It's a safe shot. It's kind of one of those things where it's like, if you're right, great. If you're wrong, maybe we won't let you find out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your punditry won't be the top punditry mess. Won't be the top concern. All right, well, Tulsi was a little more concerned than you, and so we're going to leave people. As she departs with kind of it's sort of like our version of like the Oscars playoff music. We're going to play her off to herself discussing her visit to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, everybody. Appreciate you guys jumping on the live stream. Subscribe to the feed, tell your friends. Subscribe to Andrew Egger's newsletter. It's. It's been banger after banger this week. I'm back in like three hours with a Mike Murphy podcast that I just taped.
- [26:13]
C
It's awesome.
- [26:14]
B
So also check that out. Out. We'll leave you with Tulsi. See y' all soon.
- [26:18]
E
I recently visited Hiroshima in Japan and stood at the epicenter of a city that remains scarred by the unimaginable horror caused by a single nuclear bomb dropped in 1945, 80 years ago. It's hard for me to find the words to express what I saw, the stories that I heard, the haunting sadness that still remains. This is an experience that will stay with me forever. This attack obliterated the city, killed over 300,000 people, many dying instantly, while others died from severe burns, injuries, radiation sickness, and cancer that set in in the following months and years. Nagasaki suffered the same fate. Homes, schools, families, all gone in a flash. The survivors, the Hibokusha. They carried the pain of extreme burns, radiation sickness and loss for decades. Survivors of this attack were asked to put in paintings and drawings, their own memories and how they felt and what they saw. And those paintings and the suffering that they conveyed, the pain and the sense of loss, were almost more powerful than the photos themselves. Yet this one bomb that caused so much destruction on Hiroshima was tiny compared to today's nuclear bombs. The bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima had a yield of just 5015 kilotons of TNT. Whereas today's nuclear warheads range in size from 100 kilotons to over 1 megaton. A single nuclear weapon today could kill millions in just minutes. Just one of these nuclear bombs would vaporize everything at its core. People, buildings, life itself. The shockwave would crush structures miles away, killing and maiming countless people. And then comes the fallout. Radioactive poison spreading through the air, water and soil, condemning survivors to agonizing deaths or lifelong suffering. A nuclear winter could follow with smoke and ash completely blocking the sun, plunging the world into darkness and cold, killing crops and starving billions. Acid rain would scar the earth, wiping out entire ecosystems. This isn't some made up science fiction story. This is the reality of what's at stake, what we are facing now. Because as we stand here today, closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than ever before, political elite and warmongers are carelessly fomenting fear and tensions between nuclear powers. Perhaps it's because they are confident that they will have access to nuclear shelters for themselves and for their families that regular people won't have access to access to. So it's up to us, the people, to speak up and demand an end to this madness. We must reject this path to nuclear war and work toward a world where no one has to live in fear of a nuclear holocaust.