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- [00:00]
Tim Miller
Hey everybody, it's Tim Miller with the Bulwark here with my buddy publisher of the Bulwark, Sarah Longwell. We have breaking news and the latest sign that CBS is folding to pressure from the Trump administration. The news here is from the New York Times. Bill Owens, the executive producer of 60 Minutes, said that he'd resign from the long running Sunday news program because it had lost or he had lost his journalistic independence. Owens is only the third person to run the program and its 57 year history. He told the staff in a memo, it's become clear I would not be allowed to run the show as I've always run it to make independent decisions based on what was right for 60 minutes and right for the audience. This is obviously all related to the lawsuit, the way the Trump administration is suing six or Trump rather is suing 60 minutes over the silly Kamala Harris re edit from the campaign. But also the Trump administration is overseeing a proposed merger for Paramount, which is the CBS's parent company with a was a company run by the son of tech billionaire Larry Ellison. Sky. Sky. Sky Dance. Skydance. That sounds like it's out of succession. It's the name of that company. Skydance is trying to buy Paramount. Anyway, Sarah, what is your, what's your takeaway from this pretty astonishing memo from Bill Owens?
- [01:22]
Sarah Longwell
Bunch of things. Number one, the executive has too much power. This is an old style conservative point that we don't make enough as part of this. Like why is Donald Trump able to oversee mergers and acquisitions between regular businesses? Like this is an insane thing. Like the idea that you have to be in good favor with Trump in order to do regular, ordinary business is bananas, number one. Number two, this is now a very sort of well worn tale. Corporation or big, you know, institution, be it a law firm, be it, you know, a university, whatever cave, principled people within the institution resign. Right. I was over the weekend, I was talking to one of the lawyers from one of the law firms who quit. And there's not enough stories about the people that are quitting from these places that are caving. But it's good. This is the kind of thing you need to do to get attention. Need people who are committed to the real institutions, like the real mission of these institutions to stand up and to quit their jobs, no matter how much they love them, to say this is wrong. And so good on this guy. Good on this guy. Because they're two. Too often these stories of the people who quit, they kind of like, they like peter out really quickly. You know, you don't, like, get the names and faces of the people who are really standing up. Third thing, just my third point. Every single one of these people that are caving, whether it's the law firms, whether it's these media companies, when ABC did it, when the law firms did it, every single one of them, if they went toe to toe with Trump over the thing he was suing them for in this case, the fact that they edited the interview with Kamala Harris, which they do for everything, just edit things, they would win the case in court. All of these people would win against Trump. They're just not fighting him because they've got business in front of him. And this is about. This is where, like, this is the real autocratic stuff right here. And people need to start going to court because you'll win. Stop doing this. Stop. Stop bending over. Sorry. Those are my three main points.
- [03:21]
Tim Miller
No, that's great. Don't bend over is a good way to sum it up. I've done this before in several videos. But, like, just because we have lived through this, I think you have too. I've, like, been the PR flack managing a 60 Minute story for.
- [03:36]
Sarah Longwell
I have also done 60 Minute story.
- [03:39]
Tim Miller
Exactly. So we know how this goes. Just to just state clearly how absurd this lawsuit is, the way that 60 Minutes does their stories is they just take tons of videotape and then, you know, it's right there in the name 60 Minutes. They cobble it together into a magazine story that is way shorter than all of the tape they have. So it's like the most dog bites man story of all time. And I dealt with this where I didn't like it or I forget exactly the details. It was Jeb or Huntsman that, you know, they took his answer from one question and kind of like locked it on to a different question, you know, in the interest of time and space. And, you know, I felt like it didn't show the full context or whatever. But you can't sue them. Like, that is part of a magazine's discretion. It's part of any discretion. If you're doing a long magazine print profile on somebody, you interview them for hours and hours and then you condense it down to some little bit, right? Like this notion.
- [04:34]
Sarah Longwell
And when you agree to one of these stories, like, you negotiate a lot of these particulars up front, knowing that they're ultimately going to edit things, right? Like, you know, that going into it, I got to tell you, I remember when I was edit doing one of these stories, we all flew to a Place shot a whole day worth of material and zero of it was in the show. Like, zero. And like, well, that was annoying. But also, like, this is what you sign up for. Like you get the benefit of. Well, and this is also what's funny, is like he's suing about a story about his opponent who lost. Right, Right. Like, it's not even about a story about him in which he feels like he was misrepresented. His point is, well, you edited this story about Kamala and what you favorably edited it. He doesn't know that. He doesn't see any of the footage. And also she lost, bro. Like, these are the worst winners in the univ. In the just the universe.
- [05:30]
Tim Miller
Yeah. This whole thing, I need to be totally laughed out of court. It's like a slack point. And so to fold over this is, it's just crazy. And though, obviously the more, as you mentioned at the top, your first answer, like the more pressing thing here about why they're really folding is this, Paramount's controlling shareholder. This is from the New York Times story. Sherry Redstone, she wants the Trump administration's approval for this sale of the company and the federal government. She's worried the federal government is going to intervene and block it over antitrust provisions or some made up provision or whatever. And so again, that just speaks to really like what this all stems from, right? Is it's just this fear among these gazillionaires that, that Donald Trump, the Mad King, is going to be capricious and block them from their billion dollar deal. And as a result, you know, they're telling their underlings, you know, oh, to tread carefully, you know, and it's one thing if you're telling your underlings to tread carefully in some non political organization, but it's another when your underlings run 60 minutes like the most significant investigative news program in the country.
- [06:44]
Sarah Longwell
Can you imagine your boss is like, you've, you've, you're this guy, right? You've been doing this for decades, right? You're a grizzled hardcore producer. You, you, you afflict the powerful all the time. That's your job. That's what you do. It's why you signed up for it. And you get the, from on high. They're like, you got to settle this thing, settle this thing. And we're going to soft pedal the administration stuff going forward. Good.
- [07:12]
Tim Miller
Do some stories on like a duck preserve somewhere that's under threat. You know, could we do it? Can we do some like a story on like Olympians Past that have acted with heroism or like, let's focus on blue origin. Let's focus on the ladies going to the moon. Like, let's just take a little break from the administration at this, at this moment in history. Crazy.
- [07:34]
Sarah Longwell
Not only do you need people like 60 Minutes or organizations, news organizations like 60 Minutes, now more than ever to be fearless, it is dispiriting. And can I. One of my first reaction, actually, when I saw this, because now we're. Even though we're only three months into this shit show, I. I still was a little bit like, you know, at some point, one of these organizations is going to be like the last one to cave before it really turns around. And I was. But I was a little bit dispirited just because I felt like the vibes were starting to shift. Right. Like, I feel like even these law firms that offered up their what is now a collective billion dollars in free PR is kind of like, no, you can't use it for whatever you want. Trump administration and Harvard is fighting back. Some of the law firms are fighting back. I feel like people are starting to rise up and fight back. And so you sort of felt like 60 Minutes could, like, now is the time to fight that. Now is the time for the tide to turn or to feel like the tide is turning. And so it's disappointing that they're capitulating when it just felt like people are starting to get their legs underneath them.
- [08:46]
Tim Miller
I share that disappointment. I got flagged a couple minutes before the story came. It was like, Hey, 60 Minutes bombshell coming. And in my head I went to, oh, I wonder what Pete Hegseth did. Not that I was like a bombshell about 60 Minutes, the guy having to quit. Anyway, we have the actual memo here. This was from Bill Owens to his staff. The 60 Minutes has been my life. My son was six month old, my wife pregnant with my daughter, and my mother was in a coma when I spent five weeks on the battlefield in Iraq with Scott. Scott Pelley. My 60 Minutes priorities have always been clear. Maybe not smart, but clear. Over the past months, it has also become clear that I would not be allowed to run the show as I've always run it, to make independent decisions based on what was right for 60 minutes, right for the audience. So having defended the show and what we stand for from every angle over time, with everything I could, I'm stepping aside so the show can move forward. The show is too important to the country. It has to continue, just not with me as executive producer. So not exactly, you know, Subtle. And he is trying to make the case that other people need to fight this fight. It's just, he's not, you know, I think that he needs to be the one to raise the flare about the problem in order to get attention drawn to it.
- [09:58]
Sarah Longwell
You know, he didn't say this because when I saw the New York Times story, you and I, it looks like you were able to find the memo, but I couldn't find, like, they quoted from it, the story. But they didn't. We didn't have an extensive understanding. I thought my understanding from this guy is that part of the settlement agreement was going to require him to apologize. Right. And that he was like, under no circumstances will I apologize. And I wonder if it. I thought he was, like, quitting in protest, but it might be actually part of the deal. Like, he has to leave to. In order for them to settle this.
- [10:36]
Tim Miller
In order to settle and for the show to continue. So he's like, throwing his body on the pyre. I didn't. I didn't think about interpret it in that way.
- [10:42]
Sarah Longwell
Well, when you read it to me, I said that actually did change slightly the context of it.
- [10:47]
Tim Miller
Well, I will know more and I guess either way, whether this is them really capitulating as a direct part of the deal or whether he is quitting in protest because the deal terms were going to be such that he couldn't do it. And I think on addition to either of those, it's become clear that there's editorial independence. He's concerned about going forward. Just like, either hard or soft pressure to, you know, take a little easy on. On miss. On Mr. Trumpy until the sale is done. You know, like, I think more detail. I'm sure he's going to do interviews, et cetera. More. More details of that will come out. But, like, no matter which of those paths is, like, the exact rationale for this, like, the picture of, you know, an organization that is folding at some level to Trump is the reason that it's happening.
- [11:42]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah. And I guess I would say I would encourage him to go do interviews. I think that we are at a moment where people are really craving the fearlessness of individuals in the face of the cowardice of institutions. And so my encouragement just across the board for everything is for regular people whose institutions are caving because they're big and have needs. That is not at all me letting them off the hook. In fact, I have great contempt for them. But I think the only way that we get this back is by individual bravery of people speaking out about the failures of those institutions, especially from the people who love them. The more you love them, the more you should say something in this moment.
- [12:27]
Tim Miller
Amen to that. Thank you, Sarah Longwell. Everybody else will be back as more news is breaking. Make sure to subscribe to the feed. Tell your friends we're not folding. You don't have to worry about us, so subscribe to the Bulwark. We appreciate you guys, and we'll be seeing you soon.