62% Say Trump is Using the Presidency for Cash

Summary

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Bulwark Takes: "62% Say Trump is Using the Presidency for Cash"

Date: February 28, 2026
Host: The Bulwark
Key Voices: Tim Miller, Nicole Wallace, David Frum, Jim VandeHei

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Episode Overview

In this episode, members of the Bulwark team—including Tim Miller, Nicole Wallace, David Frum, and Jim VandeHei—break down the latest polling data and news swirling around Donald Trump’s presidency, particularly the deep public mistrust regarding his ethics, perceived self-enrichment, and the nation’s unsettling trajectory under his leadership. The discussion weaves in heated takes on U.S. population decline, media consolidation involving foreign money, foreign policy contradictions, and implications for democracy and the upcoming election.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Americans Fleeing the Country and Population Decline

(02:12 – 05:15)

• Recent data suggests an unprecedented percentage of Americans are leaving or want to leave the U.S., with reasons ranging from Trump’s policies and crime to affordability and lifestyle.

• Nicole Wallace highlights that "way more than even during the Great Recession, Americans are leaving and want to leave." (02:58)

• Trump-era policies are not only discouraging immigration but also actively driving people away, with early indications that the U.S. population shrank in 2025—potentially a first outside of war or pandemic contexts.

  "As a result of Donald Trump's behavior and his policies, more people are leaving America than coming."
  — Tim Miller (03:54)

• The team compares the U.S.’s negative net migration to crisis-ridden countries like Syria, Ukraine, Sudan, and Venezuela, underscoring the gravity of this trend.

  "These are the countries we're trying to emulate... the countries that people are fleeing because of war or genocide—because that's us right now."
  — Tim Miller (04:54)

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2. America’s Perceived Weakness and Foreign Reliance

(05:15 – 07:35)

• The panel skewers the irony of Trump’s "America First" rhetoric while the U.S. relies on foreign entities—for instance, needing Qatar to supply a backup Air Force One.

  "Donald Trump has to beg Qatar to give them their backup plane... Why are we borrowing a used jalopy plane from the Qataris?"
  — Tim Miller/Nicole Wallace (05:31, 06:35)

• David Ellison’s debt-laden acquisition of iconic American media brands (CNN/Warner Bros Discovery) is being financed partly by Middle Eastern autocracies and Trump-tied oligarchs.

  "We need to borrow a used [plane]... It's just a sign of utter and unbelievable weakness that... the leaders of our country need to like take out an IOU from the Sharia law oil dictators in the Middle East."
  — Nicole Wallace (06:25, 07:03)

• The repeated phrase "Qatar's bitch" is used sarcastically to hammer home the point.

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3. Threats to Media Independence & Risks of Oligarchy

(07:39 – 13:55)

• The team expresses deep concern over media consolidation and the increasing control of major U.S. outlets by Trump-friendly oligarchs and foreign money.

  "There are elements of like, the corruption of this deal that... I think kind of get lost... this is not how things work in a functioning democracy."
  — David Frum (08:13, 08:27)

• Jim VandeHei labels the emerging system as "an oligarchy," noting that U.S. media is increasingly influenced by the ultra-rich and foreign financiers, rather than genuine capitalism.

• Discussion includes skepticism about the business prospects of "corporate MAGA" media, as the majority of Americans distrust both Trump and establishment channels, opening a massive opportunity for independent media.

  "That is now a massive media empire catering to a shrinking number of Americans... The opportunity for independent media... is a massive business opportunity."
  — Jim VandeHei (11:03)

• The group raises alarms about the power of algorithms on platforms like TikTok (now partly controlled by Ellison), X (Musk), and Meta (Zuckerberg), which could push propaganda over trustworthy news, particularly for younger consumers.

  "A shrinking number of people go to trusted news sources and an increasing number... are getting propagandized on their phones."
  — David Frum (13:34)

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4. Trump’s Contradictory Foreign Policy and Grift

(13:55 – 17:26)

• The panel probes Trump’s military actions in the Middle East, highlighting a major contradiction: his base’s non-interventionist ethos versus new military operations, including potential conflict with Iran.

  "The heat behind Donald Trump's candidacy in 2015... was [his] promise to focus... here at home. This... would be the third or fourth military operation of his presidency."
  — Jim VandeHei (13:55)

• David Frum notes that the justifications for these military actions are "a lie" and that the general public and MAGA base do not support war for Israel.

  "On its face... their stated rationale for going into Iran is a lie. Right? ...We don't have an imminent threat... So that's not where we're going."
  — David Frum (14:51)

• The possibility is raised that these moves are to benefit Trump’s own business ties with Arab states.

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5. Polling: Public Trust and Moral Failure under Trump

(16:24 – 18:41)

• Discussion pivots to devastating poll numbers:

  | Question | % Negative Response | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------------| | Is Trump honest and trustworthy? | 70% say "No" | | Is he mentally sharp enough for presidency? | 56% say "No" | | Committed to protecting Americans' rights/freedoms? | 56% say "No" | | Is using presidency to enrich himself? | 62% say "Yes" | | Has he exceeded authority as president? | 65% say "Yes" |

• Jim VandeHei remarks on the sheer abnormality of these being asked of a U.S. president:

  "These are extraordinary numbers. But even more extraordinary are the questions... Is he grifting? In and of themselves, it's just an epic failure of morality and leadership." (16:30)

• David Frum notes that this level of suspicion never applied to previous presidents—even among their opponents—and it signifies a "big change... about just how dire the state of affairs is." (17:49, 17:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Migration:

  "If you don't believe that, that's a bad place to be if you're interested in... keeping people in the country."
  — Nicole Wallace (04:03)

• On U.S. Weakness:

  "Like, why are we cutter's bitch?... It seems like America cannot fund itself."
  — Tim Miller (06:03)

• On Media Control:

  "This isn't really capitalism... It's an oligarchy."
  — Jim VandeHei (08:31, 08:34)

• On Propaganda:

  "There is a shrinking number of people... who go to trusted news sources and an increasing number... getting propagandized on their phones."
  — David Frum (13:34)

• On Trump’s Grift:

  "Do you think Trump is using the presidency to enrich himself? 62%. Yes. What gave it away? The Qatari jet."
  — Jim VandeHei (16:30)

• On Historical Context:

  "If you go back ... to 1991... asking some of those questions about George H.W. Bush... I would never assume that."
  — David Frum (17:42)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:12 – 05:15 — National population decline and migration crises
• 05:15 – 07:35 — America’s economic and diplomatic weakness, reliance on foreign money/planes
• 07:39 – 13:55 — Media consolidation, corruption, and risks to independent/journalistic integrity
• 13:55 – 17:26 — Trump’s foreign policy contradictions, possible self-enrichment via Arab ties
• 16:24 – 18:41 — Public trust polling: epic failures and political implications

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Conclusion

This episode offers a critical look at how Trump’s presidency has left Americans increasingly distrustful and desperate—politically, economically, and culturally. From record numbers of Americans wanting to leave, to American power and media being propped up by autocrats, to the normalization of presidential grift in mainstream political discourse, the Bulwark team forcefully contends that the country is at a dangerous crossroads. The episode also emphasizes the opportunity for independent media to capture a public hungry for trust, transparency, and truth.

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Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Miller from the Bulwark. I was on with my friend Nicole Wallace for a full hour, as is

[Nicole Wallace]

her want to keep me around as much as possible.

[Tim Miller]

We love our FaceTime together.

[Nicole Wallace]

Our friend David Frum popped on at the end.

[Tim Miller]

We talked about a bunch of stuff.

[Nicole Wallace]

We talked about the drums of war in Iran and some New York Times reporting on that. We talked about this Allison deal and we talked about Donald Trump's poll numbers. Nicole cut me out of a question about a story about how so many people, citizens are leaving the country right now. So I want to talk about that with you and tie it a little

[David Frum]

bit into the conversation about the acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery which has cnn.

[Tim Miller]

So this, this migration story, it talked

[Nicole Wallace]

about how there is a greater percentage of people who've left the country position

[David Frum]

percentage people who say they'd like to leave the country.

[Nicole Wallace]

For some of them it is Trump. For some it's crime.

[Tim Miller]

For some it's affordability. For some it's lifestyle.

[Nicole Wallace]

But like way more than even during the Great Recession, Americans are leaving and want to leave.

[Tim Miller]

On top of that, Donald Trump's policies

[Nicole Wallace]

are preventing people from coming in and encouraging people to self deport and then actively deporting others.

[Tim Miller]

Here's the result. The final numbers aren't in, but it seems almost certain that in 2025 we

[Nicole Wallace]

lost population in America. And I think David Frum suggested this on msnbc. I think for the first time ever, Ms. Now, excuse me, David Frum suggested that this has never happened, that the America's population declined in a year. I don't maybe go back to like the flu and the World War I, but I, I don't think so.

[Tim Miller]

But it's, it's an interesting homework project

[Nicole Wallace]

for somebody maybe when you can look into that and tell me in the comments.

[Tim Miller]

But like that is a very, very

[David Frum]

bad place to be.

[Tim Miller]

That as a result of Donald Trump's behavior and his policies, more people are leaving America than coming. Okay. And if you don't believe that, that's

[Nicole Wallace]

a bad place to be. If you're interested in this idea of

[Tim Miller]

blood and soil nationalism and keeping people in the country.

[Nicole Wallace]

We want a smaller, more contiguous, socially coherent group. The JD Vance view, wider country.

[Tim Miller]

Here's some of the countries that I

[Nicole Wallace]

pulled this up during a commercial break,

[David Frum]

didn't get to use it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Here are some of the countries that have a negative net migration rate. This is from the year 2023. Most Negative Net migration, Syria. Syria obviously was war torn. Then number two, Ukraine, also war torn. Sudan, war torn. Venezuela, war torn. Those are the top countries for negative net migration. If you look at the total negative migration, you got Pakistan against Sudan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Ukraine again, Brazil, Philippines, Greece.

[Tim Miller]

I mean this is the list we want to be on. These are the countries we're trying to emulate. When you think about success, when you think about creating a golden age, you want to be one of the countries that people are leaving. You want to be on the list with the countries that people are fleeing because of war or genocide because that's us right now.

[Nicole Wallace]

So that's something to sit with.

[Tim Miller]

And it speaks to this broader. I talk about this in Nicole so

[Nicole Wallace]

you'll hear more about it here. But like I'm working through this in real time. I think this is a potent message for Democrats is America's so weak right now.

[Tim Miller]

I think about this. Donald Trump has to beg Qatar to

[Nicole Wallace]

give them their backup plane.

[Tim Miller]

We can't make our own plane. We can't make our own presidential plane. David Ellison, Nepo baby. David Ellison had to ask the cutteries

[Nicole Wallace]

and the Saudis and the UAE to help him finance the debt on his new toy. CNN.

[David Frum]

The

[Nicole Wallace]

Trump family is doing business, is

[Tim Miller]

getting their pockets lined by the UAE and Qatar. Like why are we cutter's bitch? Like, is that, is that how we make America's great again? Being cutter's bitch? Because it seems like that's what we are. It seems like America cannot fund itself.

[Nicole Wallace]

We cannot provide a president with a plane made in America. We need to borrow a used one.

[Tim Miller]

Why are we borrowing a used jalopy

[Nicole Wallace]

plane from the Qataris?

[Tim Miller]

Like why does the person that has

[Nicole Wallace]

been hand picked to take over some of our famous movie studios and you know, our most notable news brand, why are they so laden with debt that they need an assist from Abu Dhabi?

[Tim Miller]

It's just a sign of utter and

[Nicole Wallace]

unbelievable weakness that our country, like the people in our country are fleeing and the leaders of our country need to like take out an IOU from the Sharia law. Oil dictators in the Middle East. Seems bad.

[Tim Miller]

Seems bad.

[Nicole Wallace]

And it doesn't seem like it's making America great again.

[David Frum]

It doesn't seem like we're in a golden age.

[Nicole Wallace]

It just feels like we're Qatar's bitch. Qatar's like the size of what is Qatar even the size of New Jersey? I'll look into that. You might be hearing this rant again,

[Tim Miller]

so I'll get that prepared for the next one.

[Nicole Wallace]

Everybody stick around for Nicole Wallace.

[Jim VandeHei]

Me, David Frum, Jim Miller, your thoughts on where this stands this afternoon?

[David Frum]

Yeah, we could do about an hour on this.

[Tim Miller]

Nicole.

[David Frum]

There's so many kind of layers.

[Jim VandeHei]

We have the time. Let's do it.

[Tim Miller]

Because I think that the initial reaction

[David Frum]

everybody has is right, which is I think the outlived concerns about consolidation of media corporation in the hands of Trump's allies. Right. And what that means for cnn, that matters to a lot of people. I feel pretty happy that the bulwark is independent. It's not going to matter that much

[Tim Miller]

to me and I think we should talk about it.

[David Frum]

And it matters.

[Tim Miller]

But the, there are elements of like, the corruption of this deal that, you

[David Frum]

know, I think kind of get lost a little bit in this that I just want to talk about.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, the, for starters, this is like, this is not, I think it was Oliver said, this is not how

[David Frum]

things work in a functioning democracy. This isn't how things work in a functioning capital system either.

[Tim Miller]

Like, this isn't really capitalism.

[Jim VandeHei]

Right. It's an oligarchy. Right?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, more of those discovery is a

[David Frum]

ton of debt, a massive amount of debt.

[Tim Miller]

And, you know, the, and more debt than like Paramount has in money. So how is Paramount buying, like Netflix

[David Frum]

has enough money to buy this.

[Tim Miller]

Like, how is Paramount buying it? Well, they're debt financing it from the

[David Frum]

dad of the Nepo baby, Larry Ellison, the friend of Trump, one of the richest guys in the world, and from

[Tim Miller]

a bunch of foreign countries, Qatar, the UAE and Saudi Arabia. So it's a bunch of foreign entities and Trump's oligarch buddy that are debt financing this company because they want to control the media outlet. Like that, that is, that's what, that's what is happening here. Right. Like, it is not as, you know, it's not as if, oh, Trump just put his thumb on the scale, you

[David Frum]

know, in kind of an even Stevens situation because he liked one owner better than the other. That would be bad. You know, that would be a banana republic type sit.

[Tim Miller]

I.

[David Frum]

It's far worse than that. This, the scale of it.

[Tim Miller]

And then you lay in like the free speech side of this, that, that how are you going to act if

[David Frum]

you're a board member of some other multinational who might have issues before the government over the next year or two after you've just watched what happened this week where Susan Rice like talks on a podcast and the next thing you know, the President, United States threatening her to get fired and, you know, helping usher in their competitor, you know, to get a business with the help of the Saudis and the Qataris.

[Tim Miller]

I think it would be rational for a lot of people who are in business to decide, they don't want to, they won't, they're not going to speak out about stuff. So, like, we, you know, as a result of this deal, like, there are

[David Frum]

some real issues down the road with CNN that, that folks can.

[Tim Miller]

Well, we'll see how that plays out. But like already, right now, immediately, it's a chilling of free speech. And there's even more power put into the hands of both Trump's buddies and these foreign entities that he's doing these crypto deals and these other deals with. It's crazy. Why is America, the junior partner now under Trump to Qatar and to the uae? Why do we need Qatar in the

[David Frum]

UAE to bail out American companies and the President's family? That's the situation that we're in right now, and it's not a pretty one.

[Jim VandeHei]

Yeah, I mean, Tim, your point about independent media is so right. I mean, I don't think think that the cable channels really compete with one another. This one at least competes with you and competes with Pod, Save America and competes with Oliver Darcy, because that's where the trust is. And if you look at the bet that Roger Ailes made all those years ago, his bet was that a big chunk of the country didn't trust establishment media. With Donald Trump at 34 to 36% of the polls, you've got 65 to 66% of the country that doesn't trust the establishment. You know who's reeks of establishment Donald Trump, Larry Ellison, his Nepo baby, David Ellison and his, you know, baby media mogul Barry Weiss and the man baby they're trying to keep happy Donald Trump. I mean, that is now a massive media empire catering to a shrinking number of Americans. And yes, they have reach. They have reach, but content is not something. It's like the dog food that you can't make a dog eat if people aren't buying it. The opportunity for independent media and others to appeal to 65% of the country is a massive business opportunity.

[David Frum]

It's a business opportunity that paid off for Roger Ailes. And you can say a lot negative about Roger Ailes, but he correctly identified that there was a lack of trust and there was a little bit of atrophying in the mainstream media when he started Fox. And he also correctly identified the value of propaganda.

[Tim Miller]

You got to keep that in mind too. But like it worked, right? And so the audience is going to go to, to news outlets that they

[David Frum]

feel that they can trust.

[Tim Miller]

And I don't think that there is

[David Frum]

actually a huge news audience for like

[Tim Miller]

soft MAGA or whatever they think corporate maga. I think that that's a pretty small niche of people that like corporate maga,

[David Frum]

David Ellison and Larry Ellison are in

[Tim Miller]

that group and, you know, a handful

[David Frum]

of rich Trump supporters.

[Tim Miller]

But I don't, I don't know how

[David Frum]

well that's going to do business wise. Well, we'll kind of see how that all plays out, at least in the news area.

[Tim Miller]

That's what I think the area to be concerned about.

[David Frum]

I'm, I feel bad for CNN and Washington Post and all these other outlets that are being just torn apart for no reason because, you know, of the aspirations of some of the richest people in the history of the world. Like that sucks.

[Tim Miller]

But for all of us, like most people can, if they don't watch Washington Post, they can come up so they can go, whoever they can go listen to.

[David Frum]

There are a lot of outlets nowadays.

[Tim Miller]

But I worry about is the algorithms, right? Because these same people are, you know, now control the tick tock algorithm.

[David Frum]

Allison. Right.

[Tim Miller]

And you don't have as much choice there.

[David Frum]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

Like Most people consume TikTok, they're being fed stuff.

[David Frum]

It's on what's called the for you page.

[Nicole Wallace]

Right.

[David Frum]

So they're just scrolling and algorithms telling them what they see.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[David Frum]

That worries me. Obviously.

[Tim Miller]

X is owned by Elon Musk, Meta

[David Frum]

is owned by Mark Zuckerberg, is maybe a little more malleable than Ruskin, Musk and Ellison, but even still, that's Instagram, right. That is what worries me, right. That it's like there was a shrinking

[Tim Miller]

number of people, people who go to

[David Frum]

trusted news sources and an increasing number of people who are getting propagandized on their phones. And I think if I was the Democrats and Chris Murphy, next time I'd focus much more on that and, and what kind of rules can be made around that focusing on TikTok and these other social media networks then than the media consolidation.

[Jim VandeHei]

Tim Miller. I don't love giving MAGA intellectual consistency points, but I will on the issue of non interventionalism the heat behind Donald Trump's candidacy in 2015, where he defeated, among others, your old boss Jeb Bush was around this promise to focus all of his energy and all of our money here at home. This, I think would be the third or fourth military operation of his presidency in month. I don't know, it feels like month 37. I think it's month 13. Your thoughts on the sort of political pressures on Donald Trump?

[David Frum]

I think this is crazy. I truly don't understand what he's doing for the reason that you just laid out Nicole. And it's a direct affront to his base and the message he offered and his mandate, such as there is one from his, from his election.

[Tim Miller]

Look, I mean we know on its

[David Frum]

face that their stated rationale for going into Iran is a lie. Right? So that's business as Usual from these guys, but like it's obviously they're not weeks away from a nuclear bomb as we just heard. It's not. We don't have an imminent threat to our country from long range missiles. So like that is not where we're going.

[Tim Miller]

So then the question becomes like, why are we. And some people say, well, it's a distraction thing.

[David Frum]

It's a wag the dog. It's distracting from Epstein. This would literally be the stupidest thing you could possibly do in a real

[Nicole Wallace]

war, a hot war with Iran, to distract from Epstein.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, there are a million things

[David Frum]

he could do to distract and this seems like one that risks sinking his whole presidency and consuming his whole presidency.

[Tim Miller]

So I don't think it's that. I mentioned the last segment.

[David Frum]

He's in a lot of business with the Arab states.

[Tim Miller]

So I don't know, maybe there's something

[David Frum]

happening behind the scenes, we don't know with the Qataris of the UAE or Saudi. They seem to be walking us around

[Tim Miller]

the block quite a bit lately. Two sources told Politico this week and said the administration that they wanted Israel to tack to attack in the hopes that Iran would counterattack in the hopes that that would provide rationale for getting into the war again. Like, I find that just as a political matter, crazy. I don't think that nobody in the

[David Frum]

country, nobody in maga, wants to go

[Tim Miller]

to war for Israel. Like that's not nobody, but a very small percentage of maga. So it doesn't make sense to me on any level.

[David Frum]

And I think all of the explanations

[Tim Miller]

they give publicly are just, are clearly false.

[David Frum]

And the things that people impute on them seem to me to be very strategically stupid if that's what they're really thinking.

[Jim VandeHei]

Tim, do you believe Trump is honest and trustworthy?

[Nicole Wallace]

No.

[Jim VandeHei]

70% of us. Is he mentally sharp enough to serve as president? That this is even a question asked about Trump to me feels like half the story. 56% of Americans, no. Is Donald Trump committed to protecting Americans rights and freedoms? 56% of Americans underwater 13 points. No. Do you think Trump is using the presidency to enrich himself? 62%. Yes. What gave it away? The Qatari jet. Has Trump exceeded his authority as president? 65%. Yes. These are extraordinary numbers. But even more extraordinary are the questions the narrative around Trump's presidency. The questions, the questions. Answer. Is he grifting? In and of themselves, it's just an epic failure of morality and leadership. And I wonder what you make of sort of the slow pace of realizing just how bad it is, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

The insight of the questions is.

[David Frum]

Right, you know, because if you go back, you know, I don't know, to do this in 1991, you know, and you're asking some of those questions about George H.W. bush, like, is he grifting, is he stealing? You know, is he mentally competent?

[Tim Miller]

You know, and these are 9,010 questions.

[David Frum]

Right. Even people that didn't vote for him, that. Like Bill Clinton or Michael Dukakis or that, you know, I would never assume that.

[Tim Miller]

So the fact that it's being asked

[David Frum]

is a big change and I think is noteworthy about just how dire the state of affairs is.

[Tim Miller]

The other side of that coin is, look, some of those numbers, you know, 43% don't think that he is infringing on people's rights, and 43% think he is capable to be president. Those are still just a little bit

[David Frum]

too high for where we need them to be to make it too big to steal in November. And I think that is the big task for Democrats and for, you know, folks, anybody in the, in the pro democracy coalition over the next few months. Trump's doing the job for us himself a lot to drive his numbers down. But, you know, if you look at that, that, to me, says that the

[Nicole Wallace]

Democrats are on track for winning the

[David Frum]

House, but maybe not the Senate in November. And so I think there's more work to be done. But it's.

[Jim VandeHei]

Well, interestingly, interestingly, on the question, has he exceeded his authority as president, he drops 10 points and is down to 33%. So since stealing the election is a clear example of exceeding his authority as president, if that's the path he chooses, he loses 10% of that 43% that still thinks he's sharp as a tack.

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