Podcast Summary: "A Marine's Case Against MAGA (w/ Michael Wood)" | Bulwark on Sunday

Episode Information

• Title: A Marine's Case Against MAGA
• Host: Bill Kristol, The Bulwark
• Guest: Michael Wood, Marine Corps Veteran and Businessman
• Release Date: May 25, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Bulwark on Sunday, host Bill Kristol engages in a profound conversation with Michael Wood, a Marine Corps veteran, businessman, and occasional contributor to The Bulwark. Released on Memorial Day weekend, the discussion delves into Wood's military experiences, his disillusionment with the current Republican landscape, and his foray into politics as a never-Trump Republican running for Congress.

Michael Wood's Background and Journey

[00:00] Bill Kristol:
Bill Kristol introduces Michael Wood, highlighting his background as a Marine Corps veteran who served two tours in Afghanistan. Wood hails from Midland, Texas, attended NYU, and subsequently joined the Marine Corps—a trajectory Kristol notes as "probably unusual."

[00:34] Michael Wood:
Wood reflects on his unexpected path from Midland to New York, attributing his decision to a desire to "see the world" and perhaps experience something "the opposite of Midland." He candidly discusses the challenges of making significant life decisions at 17 and the apprehensions his parents might have felt.

Military Service and Experiences in Afghanistan

[02:26] Michael Wood:
Wood shares his motivations for joining the Marines, emphasizing a genuine desire to serve his country rather than seeking a military career. He candidly admits the simplicity of his reasoning, despite others perceiving it as "cheesy."

[03:40] Bill Kristol:
Kristol inquires about Wood's deployments to Afghanistan, prompting a detailed recounting of his service.

[03:46] Michael Wood:
Wood served in Hellman Province, specifically in towns like Marja and Treknawa. He discusses the challenges of the Afghan surge under President Obama, describing his deployments as "two very kinetic, bloody deployments." Reflecting on the prolonged conflict, Wood states, "It's the longest war in American history. And I'm proud of my service."

Reflections on Injury and Sacrifice

[05:00] Bill Kristol:
Kristol brings up Wood's injuries, prompting Wood to disclose that he received two Purple Hearts—one from a grenade launch and another from a leg wound in February 2012. He humbly compares his injuries to those of his comrades, many of whom sustained more severe wounds or did not return.

[06:44] Michael Wood:
Wood offers poignant reflections on Memorial Day, describing it as a "sad day" that has grown more somber with age. He mourns the loss of young lives and the protracted nature of the Afghanistan war, expressing frustration over the lack of a definitive conclusion akin to the USS Missouri's end of WWII.

Transition to Politics and the Impact of January 6th

[09:56] Bill Kristol:
Kristol transitions the conversation to Wood's political journey, particularly his decision to run for Congress following the events of January 6th, 2021.

[10:21] Michael Wood:
Wood recounts the profound impact of the January 6th Capitol attack, describing it as "one of the darkest days in American history." The event galvanized his decision to run in a special election following the passing of Congressman Ron Wright. Despite his efforts, Wood acknowledges his loss but expresses disillusionment with the Republican Party, noting, "the Republican Party, you know, just needs to lose at every level of government."

Observations on the Republican Party and MAGA Influence

[12:49] Bill Kristol:
Kristol and Wood discuss the internal dynamics of the Republican Party, particularly the entrenched MAGA faction and its impact on traditional conservatism.

[16:22] Bill Kristol:
Reflecting on the aftermath of January 6th, Kristol expresses surprise at the swift solidification of Trump's influence within the party, lamenting missed opportunities for civic hygiene that could have curbed MAGA's rise.

[19:00] Michael Wood:
Wood elaborates on the missed chance to impeach Trump swiftly post-January 6th, suggesting it would have been a "very cleansing moment" for American politics.

[22:12] Michael Wood:
He further critiques the GOP Base, highlighting its radicalism and the self-perpetuating cycle of extreme politics fueled by local party dynamics and media consumption. Wood emphasizes the difficulty for moderate Republicans or everyday patriots to gain traction within the current party framework.

Views on the Democratic Party and Future Outlook

[23:29] Michael Wood:
Wood pivots to discuss his evolving political stance, now identifying as a "moderate Democrat." He underscores the Democratic Party's alignment with traditional foreign policy values such as NATO, free trade, and rule of law, contrasting them with the current Republican trajectory.

[25:02] Bill Kristol:
Kristol concurs, noting signs of a potential revival of moderate and traditional Democratic values, especially with Ukraine's defense elevating the party's foreign policy credentials.

[26:44] Michael Wood:
Addressing Texas politics, Wood expresses concern over Ken Paxton, the Attorney General of Texas, whom he deems corrupt and a significant threat. He underscores the challenges Democrats face in Texas, highlighting the state's shifting demographics and the need for a fresh, inclusive approach to win statewide elections.

Potential Future Political Moves

[27:18] Michael Wood:
Wood candidly assesses the political landscape in Texas, expressing skepticism about generic Democrats succeeding against entrenched Republicans like Paxton. He contemplates innovative public policy solutions to address critical issues such as healthcare, energy, and fiscal responsibility, aiming to build a broad coalition capable of challenging the status quo.

[29:42] Bill Kristol:
Kristol encourages Wood's potential political ambitions, suggesting that his unique background as a Marine and small business owner could resonate well with Texas voters seeking fresh perspectives.

[31:16] Michael Wood:
Wood emphasizes the disconnect between Democratic leadership and the party's "bread and butter" voters, advocating for a return to focusing on working-class and minority communities. He warns that without this shift, the party risks not only losing elections but also the very fabric of the republic.

Closing Thoughts

[34:02] Bill Kristol:
Kristol reflects on the dire state of American politics, hoping that the republic remains intact despite the challenges posed by extreme partisanship and institutional failures.

[36:59] Michael Wood:
In a heartfelt conclusion, Wood thanks Kristol and expresses optimism about future chapters, regardless of his political decisions. The conversation wraps up with mutual respect and a reaffirmation of the importance of service and civic engagement.

Notable Quotes

• Michael Wood [00:34]:
  "I really don't have a great answer for it other than it's kind of insane that we let, you know, 17 year olds make these big life decisions like that."

• Michael Wood [03:40]:
  "It's the longest war in American history. And I'm proud of my service."

• Michael Wood [06:44]:
  "It's heartbreaking to think about, you know, 19, 20 year olds who will forever stay 19 or 20 years old."

• Michael Wood [10:21]:
  "I thought there was a chance that I could sort of change the Republican Party into something that would, could be respectful again."

• Michael Wood [22:12]:
  "There is a chance for the Democratic Party to really build a coalition that could get 55, 60% of the country, have a Texas wing, have a Massachusetts wing, and really sort of govern."

• Michael Wood [31:15]:
  "If you’re just a normal suburban orthodontist of a conservative persuasion right now, like would you run for Congress?"

Conclusion

In "A Marine's Case Against MAGA," Michael Wood provides a deeply personal and incisive critique of the current American political landscape. From his valorous military service to his disillusionment with the Republican Party's drift towards extremism, Wood's narrative underscores the urgent need for political renewal and the resurgence of moderate, inclusive values. His reflections serve as a poignant reminder of the sacrifices made by service members and the imperative to uphold democratic principles in tumultuous times.

For listeners seeking an insightful exploration of military service, political activism, and the complexities of modern American politics, this episode offers a rich and engaging discourse.