Bulwark Takes – "A Widow Preaches Love. Stephen Miller Embraces Hate."
Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Sam Stein with Andrew Egger
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Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes explores the political and emotional fallout from the assassination of Charlie Kirk, focusing specifically on the contrasting messages delivered at his memorial service. The discussion delves into the deeply moving, faith-driven words of his widow, Erica Kirk, and contrasts them with the markedly aggressive and politicized speeches by right-wing figures like Stephen Miller, Tucker Carlson, and Donald Trump. The hosts reflect on themes of forgiveness, religious conviction, political opportunism, and the struggle for the future moral direction of the conservative movement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Memorial Service – Scene Setting

• Large, Influential Crowd: The State Farm Stadium in Arizona was packed with conservative political luminaries and media personalities. Even Elon Musk attended, leading hosts to half-jokingly raise "succession line" concerns.
  [01:22] Sam Stein: “Packed house, overflowing crowd... the entire cabinet was there with House and Senate leadership to Elon Musk was there actually.”

Erica Kirk’s Speech – Forgiveness and Love

• Unexpected Grace: Erica Kirk, newly widowed and now thrust into public and political leadership, delivered a moving, spiritual and explicitly Christian speech.
  [02:13] Sam Stein: “The way she sort of steeled herself, the way that she invoked what seemed to me a deep religious underpinning to her remarks... I just. I don’t. I didn’t have this. I would not have the strength for that.”

• Direct Quote of Forgiveness:
  [05:33] Erica Kirk:

  “That man... I forgive him.” [06:29] Erica Kirk:
  “I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love. And always love. Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.”

• Spiritual Not Political:
  Erica Kirk’s tone markedly diverged from the political, exhorting the young in attendance toward faith and forgiveness rather than policy or retributive rhetoric.
  [04:21] Sam Stein: “It wasn't political. It was spiritual.”

• Echoes of Charleston:
  The hosts compare Erica’s forgiveness to family responses after the Charleston church shooting.
  [06:54] Sam Stein: “It feels like a lifetime ago. But after the Dylann Roof shootings at Emmanuel Church... it was the family members of the victims who... looked him in the eye and said, I forgive you.”

Other Speakers: From Spirituality to Politics

• Spectrum of Tone:
  Some speakers, like Marco Rubio, delivered religious or faith-centered messages without pivoting to politics. Others invoked Kirk's mantle and, to varying degrees, announced intentions to carry forward his political work. [09:19] Unnamed co-host: “Marco Rubio really stuck out to me... he kind of just did a sort of like, evangelical preacher sort... and then there wasn’t [a political turn].”

• Tucker Carlson’s Dog Whistle:
  Carlson used Jesus’s crucifixion as an allegory, in a manner the hosts suggest veered into anti-Semitic territory. [11:05] Tucker Carlson:

  “Jesus shows up... starts talking about the people in power... I can just sort of picture the scene in a lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus... And I could just hear him say—'I’ve got an idea. Why don’t we just kill him? That’ll shut him up.'”
  [11:53] Sam Stein: “Kind of bordered on a little bit of, of a wink, wink to me. So that was weird.”

Stephen Miller – Seizing the Moment for Politics and Retribution

• Aggressive Rhetoric:
  Miller’s address bristled with battle language, describing the political right as under assault and destined to rise through struggle. [13:12] Stephen Miller (paraphrased by host):

  • “The storm whispers to the warrior that you cannot withstand my strength. The warrior whispers back, I am the storm.”
  • “An army has arisen. Those trying to incite violence against us. What do you have? You have nothing. You are nothing. You are wickedness…You have no idea. The dragon you have awakened.” [14:22] Unnamed co-host: “He’s like, I’m gonna take this energy and I’m going to channel it into this political project that I have that’s all about destroying the left.”

• Religiously-Framed Political Crusade:
  [14:26] Unnamed co-host: “He has said some really alarming and unnerving stuff... Something about him doing it in this moment at this funeral service, him couching it in this explicitly religious language. I mean, at one point he says, you know, when Charlie Kirk was shot, the angels wept, but those tears have become a fire inside of us... We are on the side of the angels.”

• Hosts Respond:
  Hosts criticize Miller for “mixed metaphors” and “over the top” language, but stress the real political danger in his approach. [15:19] Sam Stein: “He needs an editor. Some of this stuff is just over the top and mixed metaphors everywhere. Oh, yeah, and the tears and the. Come on.” [15:42] Unnamed co-host: “As we’re on our way to the camps, we’ll be like, Stephen, you know, that was…it’s a mixed metaphor. I’m kidding, Stephen...But, like, this guy’s really powerful, you know, like, this is the policy guy for Donald Trump... [He] is determined to use this moment to inaugurate... a crackdown on his political opponents, the likes of which we’ve never seen.”

The Contrasting Responses – Two Paths for the Right

• Forgiveness Versus Retribution:
  The memorial illustrated the fork in the road: Erica Kirk’s “moment of grace” versus the explicit battle-cry from Miller (and to some extent, Trump). [15:48] Unnamed co-host: “You could basically say Stephen Miller is like the mascot for one side here and Erica Kirk is carrying the banner for the other side. Like, how do you respond to this provocation? Do you respond in a spirit of... forgiveness... or do you…crack down?”

• Host Reflection:
  [17:07] Sam Stein: “I couldn’t do it...but it doesn’t seem to me that there’s much tension here, to be honest... pretty much every other speaker... [with] power were very clear that they want to go for it.”

Historical Parallels – Obama in Charleston, Trump in Arizona

• Obama’s ‘Amazing Grace’:
  The hosts contrast Obama’s grace-centered response post-Charleston with Trump’s speech at Kirk’s memorial. [17:48] Sam Stein: “Obama went down to Charleston after The shooting... used the idea of those family members saying they forgave Dylann Roof as sort of an illustration of grace... And then, of course, he sang quite famously, amazing grace. Donald Trump did not do that.”

• Trump’s Open Embrace of Hatred:
  Trump, speaking at the memorial, rejected the call to forgiveness or love. [18:47] Donald Trump (quoted/paraphrased):

  “He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent and I don’t want the best for them. I’m sorry, I am sorry, Erica... but I can’t stand my opponent.”

  [19:09] Sam Stein: “He says it with this kind of tongue in cheek... But he says it enough that at this point, no one should consider this a joke. It’s how he feels.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Erica Kirk on Forgiveness:

  "I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love. And always love. Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us."
  — Erica Kirk [06:29]

• On the Power of Grace:

  "It was a real moment of grace, and I’m very grateful to her that she could somehow do that."
  — Unnamed co-host [23:28]

• Stephen Miller’s War Cry:

  “The storm whispers to the warrior that you cannot withstand my strength. The warrior whispers back, I am the storm... You have no idea. The dragon you have awakened.” — Paraphrased from Stephen Miller’s speech [13:12]

• Trump’s Embrace of Hate:

  “That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent and I don’t want the best for them...I can’t stand my opponent.” — Donald Trump [18:47]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Content/Quote | |-----------|--------------| | 01:22 | Scene setting at the memorial: "Packed house, overflowing crowd..." — Sam Stein | | 02:13 | Opening praise for Erica Kirk’s speech — Sam Stein | | 05:33 | Erica Kirk’s forgiveness: “That man... I forgive him.” | | 06:29 | Erica Kirk’s gospel message: “I forgive him because it was what Christ did...” | | 09:19 | Range of speakers and their tones, mention of Marco Rubio — Co-host | | 11:05 | Tucker Carlson’s anti-Semitic dog whistle — [full quote] | | 13:12 | Stephen Miller’s aggressive rhetoric — paraphrased | | 14:22 | Miller’s political project: “Channeling energy to destroy the left.” | | 17:48 | Obama’s Charleston memorial vs. Trump’s approach — Sam Stein | | 18:47 | Trump’s “I hate my opponent” quote | | 23:28 | Host’s reflection on the power of Erica Kirk’s grace |

Thematic Summary

• Hope, Forgiveness, and Faith vs. Rage and Retribution:
  Erica Kirk’s words stood out as a call for spiritual fortitude and love, even in impossible grief, directly juxtaposed with the political right’s growing embrace of grievance and combative rhetoric. The hosts worry about the right’s direction: will forgiveness or fury define the movement going forward?
• Leadership Divides:
  The speeches highlight a struggle for moral leadership: Erica Kirk’s gospel-rooted grace versus Stephen Miller and Trump’s rallying cry for “war” on political enemies. The hosts argue that, beyond being a personal choice, these reactions could fundamentally shape political strategy and American civil life.

Conclusion

This episode recounts a powerful, emotionally charged political moment—the memorial for Charlie Kirk—through the lens of those who would shape the future of the conservative movement. It starkly contrasts a public act of forgiveness and love with the rise of vengeful, us-vs-them rhetoric, leaving listeners to ponder which path will win out.