Bulwark Takes — Adam Kinzinger Teases a Run Against Ted Cruz?

Date: November 15, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (A)
Guest: Adam Kinzinger (B), with audience questions moderated at the end by Nick Garcia (C).

Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes features a live conversation between journalist Sam Stein and former Congressman Adam Kinzinger at the Texas Tribune Festival. The discussion ranges from Kinzinger's upbringing and career, to his reflections on January 6th, internal GOP dynamics, the direction of American democracy, the impact of Trump and MAGA, the challenges of bipartisan dialogue, and Kinzinger's own political future—including a teasing mention of a possible run against Ted Cruz in Texas.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kinzinger’s Upbringing and Early Republicanism

• The episode opens with light banter about Kinzinger’s childhood, featuring stories from the movie The Last Republican, which reflects on his unique Republican upbringing and nerdy political obsessions as a kid.
  • Notable Anecdote:
    • Kinzinger dressed up as former Illinois Governor Jim Edgar for Halloween—not at 5, but at 12 years old.

      "Here's the worst part about it. I was like 12, actually." (B, [02:18])

• His parents’ nontraditional Republican values—his dad ran a homeless shelter, his mom was a public school teacher—shaped his compassionate conservatism.

  "We believe in the role that America plays in the world, but then also that kind of, I'll call it compassionate side of my family." (B, [03:15])

• He describes himself as a “huge dork” and connects his patriotism and belief in America’s role in the world to his early GOP identity.

GOP Evolution and the Trump Era

• Kinzinger traces the party’s shift through historical inflection points—1994’s Gingrich era, the 2010 Tea Party wave, up to the Trump years.

  “[Trump’s] ability to just have no shame has accelerated then the party's ultimate, what I think is demise.” (B, [05:53])

• He blames decades of right-wing media programming for shifting the GOP from policy to identity and resentment politics.

  "30 years of Fox News or AM radio programming people to believe that the enemy is...the left...all you’re doing is starting a clock for violence." (B, [06:25])

Reflections on Trump’s Administration and Kinzinger’s Break

• Kinzinger recounts trying to work with Trump’s administration despite being one of five sitting Republican members not to endorse Trump in 2016.

  "I'm in Congress. My job here is to try to...make this work with Trump...But I still would call him out quite often..." (B, [08:24])

• The flirtation with QAnon and undermining of institutions marked a clear breaking point for Kinzinger.

  "When you convince a significant amount of people that the system itself is broken, all you’re doing is starting a clock...for violence." (B, [09:26])

January 6th: First-Hand Account

• Details the personal and family stress on January 6th, including deciding to carry a gun to the Capitol and telling his wife and staff to stay home.

  "On January 1st, I was on a conference call with all the Republicans, and I make the comment to Kevin, ‘There’s going to be violence, man.’" (B, [11:10]) “I just got this real sense of just like, evil...the second time in my life I just felt...evil.” (B, [13:08])

• Candidly describes the trauma and aftermath.

  “I’ve been to war, and this was by far the worst day I’ve ever lived through.” (B, [13:37]) “History will be brutal to people that continue to push that big lie…” (B, [14:07])

Pressures on Political Families and the Decline of Good Governance

• Kinzinger highlights the toll on families and why honorable, service-oriented people are discouraged from seeking office.

  “It’s hard to convince somebody with that pure intention to actually go do this now.” (B, [15:50]) “...Be willing to walk away. Don’t make it your identity, because when you do, that’s when you get in and do things you don’t really believe.” (B, [17:44])

Inside GOP House Leadership: McCarthy and the Trump Rehabilitation

• Explores GOP’s embrace of Trump post-Jan 6th, particularly McCarthy’s infamous Mar-a-Lago visit.

  “At that moment, on a dime, the party becomes Trump’s party again.” (B, [19:18])

• Kinzinger attempted to rally the other impeachers to take on party leadership, but met resistance.

  "With the 10 of them, I probably could have...made an effort to get rid of McCarthy..." (B, [19:25]) “He went and saw Donald Trump because his people called, they were worried because Donald wasn’t eating.” (B, [21:37])

  • (audience laughter at the “Big Mac” joke at [21:45])

Aftermath of January 6th and DOJ Frustrations

• Shares frustration at Department of Justice’s delayed start in investigating Trump.

  “I have a lot of bitterness against DOJ and the current doj...the DOJ did not start their investigation...until we had our first hearing that next summer.” (B, [24:00]) “Had they started a year earlier, this would be a very different world.” (B, [26:27])

Trump 2.0 and Institutional Decay

• Alarm at second Trump term’s lack of “institutional pushback.”

  “The thing that kind of caged Trump in the first term was...honorable people that served in positions that would say no when something broke the Constitution. He’s only put people in place that tell him yes.” (B, [27:10])

Marjorie Taylor Greene, MAGA Grift, and GOP Prospects

• Kinzinger calls Greene “the biggest con artist ever.”

  “She has not found Jesus. Okay?” (B, [29:28]) “Clearly she wants to run for president.” (B, [29:36])

• On the broader state of MAGA:

  "I’m more optimistic short term on America now than I was because I don’t think this Trump thing can continue unabated." (B, [29:55])

The Challenge of Peeling Away Trump Supporters

• Kinzinger discusses the slow attrition of MAGA, likening it to “slicing a potato.”

  “Some of that's the Epstein files. Some of that has been...beef to Argentina. Some of that has been whatever.” (B, [31:20])

• Advocates welcoming defectors from MAGA, not shaming them.

  “If we want to win again, you're going to have to win over people that voted for Donald Trump...I don't care when you see the light, as long as you see the light.” (B, [33:16])

Advice for Democrats: Messaging, Moderation, and Fighting Corruption

• Recommends Democrats field candidates reflective of their constituencies and focus on pragmatic, centrist politics.

  “Put people up for office that reflect the community they're running in…” (B, [35:13])

• Stresses a campaign focus on affordability, the economy, and fighting corruption.

  “If you ever take down a corrupt president or an autocrat, it has always, always, always (been) because of corruption.” (B, [36:26])

Trump’s Most Corrupt Acts: Kinzinger’s Ranking

• 3. Trump's $250M lawsuit in his own favor.
• 2. Trump family profiting from international trips and business ties.

  “The Trump kids have already made $2 billion through cryptocurrency.” (B, [37:50])

• 1. The $400M plane from Qatar, acquisition of de facto US protection for Qatar, and turning the plane into Air Force One at a government expense, only for Trump to retain ownership post-presidency.

  “That, to me, is the most corrupt thing. It is. And it's in your face.” (B, [39:53])

Reconciling with the Past and Moving Forward

• Advises Democrats to campaign on positive visions and focus on the future while also promising accountability for corruption.

  “Be aggressive...the actual governance is like, we have to hold people accountable to this.” (B, [43:17])

• Stresses the need for genuine politicians, emphasizing authenticity over polish or perfection.

Audience Q&A Highlights

On Kinzinger’s Political Future — (46:27-47:27)

• On running in Texas:

  “If I could run against Ted Cruz, that would just be fun. I'm kind of joking. I’m not.” (B, [46:27]) “I'm not ruling out a future run ever. I am ruling out running for the House again.” (B, [46:54])

Why Not Run for Governor?

“Let’s be realistic. I’ve lived in Texas for about two and a half years...I don’t know if I would be well qualified to run for governor of a state I’ve lived in for like two and a half years, particularly Texas.” (B, [48:10])

On the Lack of a Non-Trumpian GOP

“It’s almost impossible...the powers that be have written the rules so that it’s almost impossible [for a third party].” (B, [49:06]) “They just got beat...swallowed up by the anger, the vitriol, and a lot of them left the party.” (B, [49:36])

The GOP After Trump

“The second Donald Trump makes it clear he’s not running again...you will see this, this, this fight...” (B, [51:30]) “I have a hard time believing it’s gonna go back to be the party that we remember.” (B, [52:00])

Current Republicans Kinzinger Respects

“I can’t think of a single Republican I respect anymore in office.” (B, [52:25])

Inspiring a New Generation

“That vision...is not going to be cast for them. I think they have to cast it.” (B, [53:22])

Dialogue between Democrats and Republicans

“Dialogue is good. It’s always good...when you have a flash of humanity with somebody.” (B, [54:58]) “But I don’t think you need to find common ground with insurrectionists or with authoritarians.” (B, [55:27])

On Democratic Messaging vs. Results

“I think Democrats have a we don’t have enough people in office problem.” (B, [57:51])

Welcoming Former Trump Supporters

“If somebody comes out and says, look, I don’t like Trump anymore, I think it’s important to be like, you know what? Awesome. Welcome to the coalition.” (B, [59:37]) “The more you reduce recidivism...the more you can give them the reality or the understanding that there is a home for them...” (B, [60:17])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Seeing Trump Supporters Breaking In on Jan 6th:

  “I just got this real sense of just like, evil. And I can’t describe it beyond that...It felt evil.” (B, [13:08])

• On Marjorie Taylor Greene:

  “Marjorie Taylor Greene is the biggest con artist ever, by the way. Like she has not found Jesus. Okay?” (B, [29:28])

• On Critics Who Shame Former Trump Supporters:

  “Can you please not post on Twitter? Well, screw you. You should have known, right?...I don’t care when you see the light, as long as you see the light.” (B, [33:11])

• On McCarthy’s Excuse for the Mar-A-Lago Visit:

  “He went and saw Donald Trump because his people called, they were worried because Donald wasn’t eating.” (B, [21:37])

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00] Sam Stein introduces the show and the panel with Adam Kinzinger.
• [01:31] About Kinzinger’s new film, The Last Republican.
• [03:15] Kinzinger on his political upbringing and values.
• [05:09] Where the GOP went wrong, FOX/AM radio, tribalism.
• [08:24] Kinzinger’s relationship with Trump during the first term.
• [10:27] January 6th — personal account.
• [13:37] The trauma and psychological toll of Jan 6th.
• [17:55] On why good people avoid politics, family impact.
• [18:56] McCarthy/Trump — Mar-A-Lago turning point for GOP.
• [23:57] DOJ and the sluggish Trump investigation.
• [27:10] Trump 2.0; institutional erosion.
• [29:28] Marjorie Taylor Greene and the con of MAGA.
• [31:03] On peeling away Trump supporters and media influence.
• [33:28] Advice for Democrats on messaging and coalition-building.
• [37:12] “Top three corrupt acts by Donald Trump”.
• [44:27] Reflection on Nancy Pelosi’s retirement.
• [46:27] Kinzinger teases running against Ted Cruz in TX.
• [48:10] On running for Texas governor.
• [52:25] “Are there any Republicans you respect in office?”
• [53:21] Messaging to young voters.
• [54:58] On how Democrats should dialogue with GOP voters.
• [57:51] Is it a Democratic messaging or results problem?
• [59:25] How to welcome ex-Trump voters.

Closing Tone

Kinzinger is both candid and sardonic, combining personal anecdotes with somber warnings about America’s democratic backsliding. He delivers sharp critiques of both his former party and political leadership, insists on moral clarity, urges authenticity, and repeatedly encourages bridging divides pragmatically — while humor and self-deprecation keep the discussion grounded and accessible.

For listeners and activists, this episode offers a bracing view from the inside: a profile of political courage, an unvarnished diagnosis of the Trump-era GOP, and some hope for coalition-building and generational renewal.