American ‘Squid Game’ Could Be Coming to Gitmo

Summary

Bulwark Takes: American ‘Squid Game’ Could Be Coming to Gitmo

Release Date: May 8, 2025
Hosts: Sam Stein, Tim Miller
Podcast Description:
Bulwark Takes delivers concise and insightful analyses of the day's news, featuring perspectives from The Bulwark's team, including notable voices like Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and Bill Kristol.

---

Introduction to the Proposal

In the episode titled "American ‘Squid Game’ Could Be Coming to Gitmo," Sam Stein and Tim Miller delve into a controversial proposal that has emerged within political and tech circles. The idea involves transforming Guantanamo Bay, historically known for its detention camp, into a “charter city” aimed at facilitating immigration and economic development.

Sam Stein opens the conversation by describing the proposal:

"One of the more outlandish and gobsmacking ideas that I've seen... the United States should turn Guantanamo Bay... into a transformative, prosperous city... using a prosperous charter city to basically put immigrants into work camps, develop it into a tourism and... like one of these Middle Eastern cities." (00:00)

Tim Miller succinctly summarizes the economic ambition:

"An economic engine." (00:42)

---

Detailed Examination of the Proposal

The hosts dissect the proposal's components, highlighting its multifaceted and unsettling nature. The initiative aims to repurpose Guantanamo Bay into a hub for immigrants, ranging from high-skilled professionals to asylum seekers, with the goal of fostering economic growth and societal contributions.

Tim Miller commends the innovative aspect but criticizes its execution:

"I'm kind of for the concept. The execution in this is fucking horrifying." (01:07)

He emphasizes the problematic language used in the proposal, particularly the term “solution,” which echoes historical atrocities:

"We would only take certain migrants. We would be monitoring them and then even then it's not clear if they, what kind of status they would get. They called it, quote, an ideal sandbox. Solution. It's just a little close to final solution for me." (02:19, 02:23)

---

Ethical and Historical Concerns

The conversation takes a darker turn as Stein and Miller draw parallels between the proposal and notorious historical events, underscoring the ethical implications of repurposing a site like Guantanamo Bay.

Sam Stein points out the dystopian undertones:

"We are going to do a migrant Truman show where everyone's gonna watch them." (04:20)

Tim Miller further illustrates the grim reality:

"Feels like we're doing a migrant Truman show... it's sick." (04:20)

The proposal's attempt to rebrand Guantanamo Bay as “Freedom Cities” is scrutinized, considering the site's fraught history post-9/11 and its association with controversial detention practices.

Sam Stein remarks on the challenge of changing Guantanamo’s image:

"We're going to pivot from the site synonymous with post-911 controversies to one known for cutting edge tech." (04:38)

---

Implementation Challenges and Public Perception

The hosts debate the feasibility of the proposal, considering both logistical hurdles and societal reactions. The idea of converting a government-owned detention area into a tourist and tech hub raises questions about public acceptance and the practicality of such transformation.

Tim Miller humorously questions the proposal's attractiveness:

"Government owned vacation." (06:03)
"Not only do you get great beaches, decent food, you can walk the grounds where Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded. Who wouldn't want to go?" (06:05)

Sam Stein expresses strong opposition:

"Let's not do this. And I don't think I'll be visiting." (06:32)

The discussion also touches on potential comparisons to historical internment camps, further emphasizing the proposal's insensitive nature.

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Sam Stein and Tim Miller remain critical of the proposal, acknowledging its innovative intent but condemning its execution and ethical ramifications. They highlight the necessity for creative solutions in urban development and immigration but stress that such initiatives must be approached with sensitivity and respect for historical contexts.

Sam Stein concludes with a firm stance against the proposal:

"Let's not do this. And I don't think I'll be visiting." (06:32)

Tim Miller echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of ethical considerations:

"I just think there's other places." (06:37)
"I'm anti communist, so I will not be visiting the Cuban islands." (06:46)

The episode serves as a cautionary tale about the intersection of innovation and ethics, urging listeners to critically evaluate proposals that may inadvertently echo dark chapters of history.

---

Key Takeaways

• Innovative Concepts vs. Ethical Execution: While the idea of creating futuristic charter cities is intriguing, its implementation must avoid repeating historical injustices.
• Language Matters: Terms like “solution” can carry ominous connotations and should be chosen with care to avoid unintended implications.
• Historical Context is Crucial: Repurposing sites with complex histories requires sensitive handling to honor past experiences and ensure societal acceptance.
• Public Perception Shapes Feasibility: Proposals must consider how the public and affected communities perceive changes, especially when tied to contentious locations like Guantanamo Bay.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sam Stein on the proposal's nature:
  "One of the more outlandish and gobsmacking ideas that I've seen..." – 00:00

• Tim Miller on supporting the concept but criticizing execution:
  "I'm kind of for the concept. The execution in this is fucking horrifying." – 01:07

• Sam Stein on the dystopian aspect:
  "We are going to do a migrant Truman show where everyone's gonna watch them." – 04:20

• Tim Miller highlighting ethical issues:
  "Feels like we're doing a migrant Truman show... it's sick." – 04:20

• Sam Stein's final opposition:
  "Let's not do this. And I don't think I'll be visiting." – 06:32

• Tim Miller on personal stance:
  "I'm anti communist, so I will not be visiting the Cuban islands." – 06:46

---

This episode of Bulwark Takes effectively combines current events with in-depth analysis, encouraging listeners to critically assess proposals that may seem innovative on the surface but harbor deeper ethical and historical concerns.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the book, and I am joined by Tim Miller for a truly disturbing segment that we're going to talk about. One of the more outlandish and gobsmacking ideas that I've seen, but apparently a memo has been sent to Donald Trump, or at least to the White House, that is outlining this idea that the United States should turn Guantanamo Bay, where we've had, what is it? Prison camp, more or less. They want to turn it into a transformative, prosperous city, using a prosperous charter city to basically put immigrants into work camps, develop it into a tourism and, I don't know, like, tech site. Like one of these Middle Eastern cities.

[Tim Miller]

An economic engine.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, an economic engine that you can also just kind of check out the.

[Tim Miller]

Caribbean Sea, Four Seasons, Guantanamo.

[Sam Stein]

There's so many layers that are so uncomfortable about this entire thing, but apparently it's gotten, like, the attention of the tech bro set who think it's a great idea. Tim, you. You read the article, You've seen the charter or you've seen the proposal. What do you make of it?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, shout out to the folks at the New Republic for flagging this PowerPoint. Look, I want to just preface this by saying that, like, unlike some folks, I think the. The author of the TNR article, I'm not like, against the idea of doing crazy new futuristic cities sort of thing appeals to me is like whatever capitalist future, future kind of guy. There's that Cal Forever City, you know, that's very controversial, but there's a lot of left center, left field that like it. It's like we got to figure out new ways to break through the old red tape to build big city. I'm so. I just want to preface this by saying that I'm kind of for the concept. The execution in this is fucking horrifying. I need to credential myself as being. For the concept to talk about how insanely horrifying the execution proposal is here. And I just want to read one, the number one section that makes this so horrifying. That the idea is the immigration section, Right? Yes, yes. That it is not just for hotels and for whatever business development. That this could be a, quote, immigration solution, just as a general solution was. In general. Yeah, Solution. It's just a little close to final solution for me. Just as a wordsmith.

[Sam Stein]

Well, it's one of the two words, so, yeah, it's 50% too close.

[Tim Miller]

I'd stay away from that. Okay, here we go. I'm just going to read the whole Thing. Guantanamo Bay could become an immigration proving ground, enabling the US to safely and humanely accommodate certain migrants, from high skilled talent to asylum seekers, while evaluating their contributions to the local economy and society. Those who succeed over a defined period might earn expedited entry to the mainland. What do we do? Like we're going to do a squid game at Guantanamo Bay. We got the caliper is out.

[Sam Stein]

We're going to measure humanely. They said humanely.

[Tim Miller]

Mainly we're going to see. We're going to put them through the paces.

[Sam Stein]

That's right.

[Tim Miller]

You know, it's like one week. It's like, can you change tires? We're going to have you change tires here. Can you wash windows? Can you do PowerPoints? How'd your. Excellent.

[Sam Stein]

There was a line in there where they were like, we will be evaluating their contributions. And I was just like, oh my God, this is, this is so dystopian.

[Tim Miller]

Who is doing the evaluation here? You know, we got Steve, we're sending a memo to Steve, Stephen Miller, you know, that's like immigration and workforce strategy. You know, who are the high skilled people that are going to want to move to Guantanamo Bay for the Guantanamo Bay tech visa?

[Sam Stein]

Well, so that's the. So the idea here, I'm trying to distill it as best I can. The idea here is that they would become a sort of proving ground is their word. But basically that immigrants would want to go to Guantanamo because you'd have the allure of maybe earning some sort of citizenship status that you could then take, maybe live on this futuristic Guantanamo Bay city or, I don't know, go to the United States. But it's so messed up because you would have to prove yourself. We would only take certain migrants. We would be monitoring them and then even then it's not clear if they, what kind of status they would get. They called it, quote, an ideal sandbox.

[Tim Miller]

What was the movie with Jim Carrey was like, you know, his life was a reality show and everybody was watching him. The whole, yeah, the Truman Show.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Feels like we're doing a migrant Truman show where everyone's gonna watch them. It's gonna be like, oh, nice job on the window washing challenge, Javier. You might get, you might earn yourself a chance to make it to Tampa. And like the whole thing is just like it is sick. And what? And then.

[Sam Stein]

Well, there's a weird severance vibe too, right? It's like, yeah, it's all like. So now the other part of it that's of course problematic is that it's at Guantanamo, which is like, got a very complicated history and they even address it. They're like, look, we have, we're going to call this Freedom Cities. They said that we're going to pivot from the site Synonymous with post 911 controversies to one known for cutting edge tech. And I'm just not sure you can make that pivot that easily.

[Tim Miller]

It's a hard pivot. I mean, it is, I guess it's on the beach of Cuba. I've never been that yet. We'll see how things go over the next three years.

[Sam Stein]

Give it time. Trump might send you there.

[Tim Miller]

Give it out again. I'm like, I'm open to creative ideas. What was what Kramer said? Like, interesting trades considered. He said to me, okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna fucking bulldoze the whole thing.

[Sam Stein]

Right?

[Tim Miller]

You know, we're gonna create a memorial. We're gonna do some. We're gonna create, like, will they have.

[Sam Stein]

A memorial to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?

[Tim Miller]

I think they center there or something. I don't know, I. Probably not a memorial. Good point. But you know what I mean? Like, we're going to do something to give back whatever, and then we'll sell the land and if somebody wants to come and build a resort there, then they could buy it. I think that probably wouldn't succeed. But like, okay. And it's not like the land can never be used for anything ever. But like the government, the US Government, like we are going to have a government owned. You're going to go on a government owned vacation to Guantanamo. That's the pitch here.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Government owned vacation.

[Sam Stein]

Not only do you get great beaches, decent food, you can walk the grounds where Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded. Who wouldn't want to go? It feels very Hyman Rothy from the Godfather, but with like way more ethically dubious problems. And that was pretty ethically dubious to begin with. So count me for whatever happened to.

[Tim Miller]

The internment camps in San Francisco? Like, what's on the land that we. Where we put the Japanese internments.

[Sam Stein]

That's Sacramento.

[Tim Miller]

That'd be interesting to find out. That might be a model to look towards.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Let's not do this. And I don't think I'll be visiting.

[Tim Miller]

You don't?

[Sam Stein]

Well, I just think there's other places.

[Tim Miller]

You ever been to Cuba?

[Sam Stein]

No, I'm talking. No, I've not been to Cuba.

[Tim Miller]

No.

[Sam Stein]

Up until recently you couldn't go, so.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, no.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Have you?

[Tim Miller]

No, Obviously I'm anti communist, so I will not be visiting the Cuban islands.

[Sam Stein]

You're waiting for the freedom city to.

[Tim Miller]

Be captured until the people of Cuba are free. Not. No, not the American autocrat.

[Sam Stein]

We're going to show them whose government run city is better. That's a smart idea. All right, look, this is a lot of fun. A little bit scary. Appreciate you talking me through this.