Bannon Can’t Spin This! Calls For Lindsey Graham To Be Arrested!

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Episode Summary - "Bannon Can’t Spin This! Calls For Lindsey Graham To Be Arrested!"

Release Date: June 3, 2025
Host/Authors: The Bulwark Team, including Andrew Egger and Bill Kristol

---

1. Operation Spiderweb: A Bold Ukrainian Offensive

The episode opens with Andrew Egger introducing a significant development in the Ukraine conflict: Operation Spiderweb. This Ukrainian-led offensive, which took place over a recent weekend, has garnered attention for its ingenuity and tactical effectiveness.

Bill Kristol elaborates on the operation's success, highlighting its dual impact:

"[02:13] It's been very cool. It's, it was like tactically useful, you know, knocked out a bunch of, a bunch of, you know, nuclear capable airplanes and things like that."

The operation featured an unconventional strategy where a DJ, allegedly linked to Russian military bloggers, orchestrated the deployment of drones concealed within trucks. These trucks, ostensibly transporting materials to build homes, secretly carried drones that targeted and destroyed Russian aircraft across various locations in Russia.

Andrew Egger underscores the operation's surprise element:

"[02:18] It's a good caveat. Good news, you're usually a bearer of bad news. How are you processing this positive development in Ukraine?"

2. Tactical Ingenuity and Operational Security

Bill Kristol draws parallels between Operation Spiderweb and cinematic heists, emphasizing the operation's stealth and effectiveness:

"[03:08] It's like they went out, they like went at the source of the Russian strength... it's like an Ocean's Eleven type thing where, you know, everyone who is involved in the planning and execution of it gets away scot free."

The operation not only achieved its immediate military objectives but also exposed Russian operational security flaws. By utilizing unsuspecting truck drivers, the Ukrainians executed a mission that significantly disrupted Russian capabilities without leaving a traceable link to Ukrainian intelligence services.

3. Implications for U.S. Intelligence and Ukrainian Autonomy

A critical point of discussion centers on the fact that Operation Spiderweb was conducted without U.S. assistance or prior knowledge. This revelation raises questions about the extent of U.S. intelligence integration with Ukrainian forces.

Andrew Egger remarks on the potential embarrassment for U.S. intelligence:

"[04:21] This is just, I mean, on the one hand, embarrassing kind of egg on your face situation for Trump."

Bill Kristol contemplates the broader implications for U.S.-Ukraine relations:

"[05:09] It would be an opsec, like vulnerability, right?"

The absence of U.S. involvement suggests a level of Ukrainian operational independence, which, while demonstrating Ukraine's capability, also exposes gaps in U.S. intelligence collaboration.

4. Steve Bannon's Critique and Calls for Legal Action Against Senator Lindsey Graham

Shifting focus, the conversation delves into Steve Bannon's recent statements targeting Senator Lindsey Graham. Bannon, appearing on Chris Cuomo's program, expressed outrage over Graham's dual roles in Ukraine and domestic legislative efforts.

Andrew Egger summarizes Bannon's stance:

"[06:13] What a long, strange trip he's been on, right?"

Steve Bannon accuses Graham of misleading both Ukrainians and the American public:

"[07:08] I don't understand how you could want to jail a U.S. senator because he's saying something you don't like... Either cancel his passport and don't allow him back into the country or put him in jail if he comes back."

Bannon's demands reflect a broader strategy to undermine political figures who support Ukraine, positioning them as traitors or enemies of the state.

5. The MAGA Movement's Internal Divisions and Political Ramifications

The discussion further explores the fractures within the MAGA movement, particularly regarding differing opinions on the Ukraine conflict and relations with Russia.

Andrew Egger highlights the diversity of viewpoints within MAGA:

"[10:24] We're talking about this yesterday with Will Sommer, but then there the other other folks, like the more in touch with real political reality side of MAGA."

Bill Kristol critiques the extremist rhetoric emerging from elements of the movement:

"[09:23] ...literally anybody who is getting even crosswise of the President's messaging is essentially committing this act of like treason against the popular will..."

This internal discord poses significant challenges for the MAGA faction, as extremist voices like Bannon's attempt to consolidate power by discrediting moderates and mainstream supporters.

6. Broader Political Context and Media Commentary

The episode also touches on the role of media personalities and their influence on public perception. Bill Kristol comments on the absurdity of certain narratives propagated by MAGA-aligned commentators:

"[12:34] It's completely insane... we're commenting on it, but. But it makes you dumber reading it."

The hosts express frustration with the spread of misinformation and the trivialization of complex geopolitical issues by political commentators seeking to advance partisan agendas.

7. Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook

As the episode wraps up, the hosts emphasize the importance of staying informed through reliable sources and maintaining vigilance against internal threats to political discourse.

Andrew Egger encourages listeners to subscribe and stay engaged:

"[12:34] We'll be keeping an eye on it. Make sure to subscribe to the feed. Go read Andrew's newsletter."

Meanwhile, Bill Kristol reflects on the ongoing commitment to conservative institutions amidst rising internal challenges:

"[12:51] I'm doing one cheer for conservative institutions which. Which every time I do that, I get completely owned by. Never mind, guys."

The episode concludes on a note of cautious optimism, urging listeners to remain proactive in understanding and addressing the evolving political landscape.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol [02:13]: "It's been very cool. It's, it was like tactically useful... knocked out a bunch of, a bunch of nuclear capable airplanes..."

• Steve Bannon [07:08]: "Either cancel his passport and don't allow him back into the country or put him in jail if he comes back."

• Bill Kristol [09:23]: "...anybody who is getting even crosswise of the President's messaging is essentially committing this act of like treason against the popular will..."

---

This episode of Bulwark Takes provides a nuanced examination of recent military developments in Ukraine, the intricate dynamics within the MAGA movement, and the broader implications for U.S. political discourse. Through insightful analysis and candid discussions, Andrew Egger and Bill Kristol offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current geopolitical and domestic challenges.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

It's time to turn your daydream into your dream job. Wix gives you the power to turn your passion into a moneymaker with a website that fits your unique vision and drives you towards your goals. Let your ideas flow with AI tools that guide you but give you full control and flexibility. Manage your business from one dashboard and keep it growing with built in marketing features. Get everything you need to turn your part time passion into a full time business. Go to wix.com hey everybody, Tim Miller.

[Andrew Egger]

From the Bulwark here with my buddy Andrew Egger who writes our Morning Shots newsletter which you should definitely subscribe [e-mail] and Andrew, I want to talk about a series of developments in Ukraine. I get into this a little bit with Bill Kristol yesterday, but we've learned some more and there's been some backlash from the mega, right. But there's this awesome offensive the Ukrainians undertake over the weekend called Operation Spiderweb that has kind of a Trojan horse element to it. This is really cool story from the sun that apparently one of the point people for this operation was a dj, a tattoo DJ who has a wife or girlfriend that writes erotic thrillers. Let's put their pictures up right here so people can just really visualize this awesome story. Good news, you're usually a bearer of bad news. How are you processing this positive development in Ukraine?

[Bill Kristol]

It's been very cool. It's, it was like tactically useful, you know, knocked out a bunch of, a bunch of, you know, nuclear capable airplanes and things like that. But also just really a fun story like just on the merits of it and really embarrassing like, like OPSEC wise for Russia because of how just I mean like, do you want to talk a little bit about like what actually happened is the most bizarre story ever. This, this DJ guy like essentially tricked a bunch of like Russian truck drivers into driving these, these trucks that had drones concealed inside of them to a bunch of different locations all over Russia. First of all we should say the guy, the dj, he's alleged to be involved. It's like Russian military bloggers who have like surfaced his name. All of these, all of these guys who were driving the trucks are like, Artem told us to go here. Supposedly he's the Artem, but, but they all drive all over the place.

[Andrew Egger]

So I want to say there's the bias of how badly I want it to be true. It's a good, it's a good caveat.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, he's just the icing on the cake though because like the thing itself just driving these trucks to these places. Supposedly they're there to like build homes. And then like the secret compartment on the roof of the trucks opens up.

[Andrew Egger]

At the same time, like all over the country, like as far as Siberia, like, these roofs open at the same time. And then the drones just, and they just take out the Russian planes. And again, it's, it's also a little bit of a sweet revenge element because it's the planes that have been, you know, dropping a lot of like, really deadly material onto Ukraine. Right?

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah.

[Andrew Egger]

So it's like they went out, they like went at the source of the Russian strength. And also the other sweet element to this is, is Russia is particularly exposed because they can't make these planes anymore. They're like, like Soviet airplanes. And so now it's like they're boned, right?

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah. And it's totally like an Ocean's Eleven type thing where like, you know, everyone who is involved in the planning and execution of it gets away scot free. And it's these like hapless truck drivers who didn't know anything about it who are like, you know, it went about as well as, as well as Ukraine could have, could have hoped it would go. Cool story, fun story, exciting story, grim war, but, but a good story in that war.

[Andrew Egger]

Little icing on the cake for us from a domestic perspective is that the Ukrainians executed this campaign without our help at all and without our knowledge, apparently. I mean, which is a little bit alarming, I guess. About What? About the US's visibility inside of Ukrainian services from, from an intel standpoint. But asked. This was kind of reported over the weekend. We talked about it a little bit yesterday about how we didn't know about this, but, but Carolyn Levitt, the press secretary, was asked about this today. Did Trump know about this? And said no. So this is just, I mean, on the one hand, embarrassing kind of egg on your face situation for Trump. But like, more importantly, it is the Ukrainians like, decoupling from this and saying, we got this. We don't need your little small orange fingers.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah. And honestly, I've been, I've been kind of going around and around in my head for how to process that exact piece of information. Because you could probably, couldn't you make the argument that, like, if this had happened under Biden, it would have been messaged the same way. Just because it is like such an aggressive attack into Russian territory beyond what the US has kind of consented to as a matter of policy. You could, you could imagine a world Where Ukraine. Probably not under this administration, under a friendlier administration to Ukraine, where Ukraine either leaves us in the dark or probably more likely just says they left us in the dark and we say they left us in the dark. Obviously. I mean, I would not bet a lot of money that's what happened here under, under this, these particular group of jokers. But I just have. It's been hard for me to find the exact right hole to put that peg of information into. You know what I mean?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, same. It's something I've been noodling on. But they. It's hard to imagine that in this situation, right? Like the wink and nod in the Biden time of saying, like, yeah, we didn't know anything about this. Like, we don't want to have. If this escalates, we don't want to be responsible. That is, you could imagine, you really can't imagine here. I mean, I think the reality is that if you're Ukraine and you're doing a sensitive operation like this, you can't tell us.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, it would be an opsec, like vulnerability, right?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah. Right. What if Tulsi, I mean, you want Tulsi knowing about this. So I don't know. It'll be interesting as this stuff develops. Like, did the Brits know? You know, did their European allies know? I don't know. That will be. That will be a subplot to watch. The other element to this, which is really delicious. This is an all delicious podcast, so enjoy it while you can, people. Steve Bannon was on with. What was the other Cuomo's name? Chris Cuomo. Yeah, on his program.

[Bill Kristol]

What a long, strange trip he's been on, right?

[Andrew Egger]

And Chris is looking tan and so Bannon's on the program and he's pissed because Lindsey Graham was in Ukraine while this was happening. He's on a code of some sort, I think with Richard Blumenthal, maybe some other senators and, and was expressing a lot of positivity about the operation and is also at the same time back here, you know, working on a bill that would add sanctions to Russia that ideally would get enough votes that it could. That even if Trump vetoed it, they could override the veto. So, like, these are two things that Lindsey's working on you, you know, not. I could use a little bit more from Lindsay. But that being said, they are. Those are two items that he was working on in support of Ukraine. And just those two modest items really have pissed off Steve Bannon. And now let's watch him on, on Chris Cuomo's program.

[Steve Bannon]

Whether it's true that Ukraine didn't give us a heads up and that the United States wasn't involved in the planning or execution, I don't know that. I know what the White House has said. I don't necessarily believe it. I don't know that it's not true either. But I don't understand how you could want to jail a U.S. senator because he's saying something you don't like because he sounds like the worst of the deep state. No, it's absolutely what he's doing over there right now is stirring it up. He's giving the Ukrainians, but it's not illegal. He's giving Ukrainians false hope. He's giving Ukrainians false hope that we're there to support them. We on engaging Russia in a kinetic conflict and we are not President Trump. Maybe parts of President Trump, hey, so maybe he's wrong. But what do you say? Throw him in jail? Two things, two things ought to happen. Either cancel his passport and don't lay back in the country or put him in jail if he comes back. Lindsey Graham is stirring it up right now.

[Andrew Egger]

So he wants to jail Lindsey Graham. I guess. I mean, the whole, like, you know, there's a period of time where they did the whole, oh, we're not really fascists. And these, these liberals, like, how crazy are they that they call us fascists and we're going to call ourselves fascists kind of as a joke because the liberals call us that. And it's like one big, it's a big laugh to make fun of how crazy they've gotten. And now they just have kind of embraced it pretty much full throatedly. They're like, no, if you disagree with the President on a foreign policy matter, you should be jailed.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, it's kind of fun to watch Chris Cuomo kind of bump into that in real time where he's like, well, I mean, come on, you're not actually saying that he should be imprisoned. What for speec, like for, for supporting the notion that we should continue to back our allies in Ukraine. And Bannon's like, not jail, jail or deny, you know, deny him reentry to the country. I mean, it's funny. It's, it's grim and it's funny, right? I mean, it's like it's both of these things because it's not like this. Steve Bannon has been kind of sidelined in a lot of ways by this administration. A lot of things he doesn't want happening policy wise have been happening with this administration.

[Andrew Egger]

But also seems like he won the little Elon battle, maybe by no doing of his own. But he was the most aggressive anti Elon person, at least publicly. You know, probably has, probably has more to do with Susie Wiles and Elon's own instability than Bannon himself. But it's worth mentioning.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, no, 100%. But I just think like regardless of his own kind of personal sway or whatever, like this ideology that, that he is kind of like channeling here where it's like the President channels the will of the Volk and any impediment to that or anybody who gets in his way or anybody who even like talks on behalf of the United States, even if they are also officers of the United States. The thing that Bannon keeps bringing up is like he's stirring things. He's given the Ukrainians false hope. He's making them think that there's still a coalition of important people in America who support them. But that's not true. The only important person in America is Donald J. Trump and he doesn't support. I mean, that's kind of the actual, kind of like philosophical argument that Bannon's making. And it's insane. I mean, it's like it's fascist and evil and terrifying because like it's, it's, it's the idea that literally anybody who is, is getting even crosswise of the President's messaging is essentially committing this act of like treason against the popular will that exists in the person of the President. So that's cool. It's a really exciting, exciting times all around.

[Andrew Egger]

You saw some of this just with a little less of Bannon's flair from some of these other guys. Like Cat Turd was talking about how Lindsey Graham and Zelinsky don't want peace. And you know, you see this from the other MAGA kind of commentary. And the interesting thing is like to advance their perspective, like there, there are sort of two sides of maga, like the ones that just embrace the fact that maybe Putin has to take over all of Europe and doesn't. Not really our problem. This is the Curtis Yarvin side. We were talking about this yesterday with Will Summer, but then there the other, other folks, like the more in touch with real political reality side of maga, which I guess Cat Turd is included in, which will tell you something. They have to like, like continue to do the suspension of disbelief that there is a peace program happening. This is bad. This attack on Russia is bad because it's undermining the peace. I mean, we can't do something that's undermining this important peace process.

[Bill Kristol]

I'm not 100% sure you can ascribe thoughts that complex to Cat Turd 2. That guy is a single celled organism. You know, I mean, he just.

[Andrew Egger]

Okay, there were some others that said that. I don't want to name a name because I don't have it in front of me, but there were some more Magaz who are making this argument.

[Bill Kristol]

Yes. Which is just. I mean, it's so. It's so amazing. It's just. It's complete, you know, like, Monopoly money discourse. Right. I mean, Russia is also currently in the process of launching its most aggressive attacks yet against Ukraine, like, all weekend. You know how, like, the biggest drone attack they've done so far, hitting all kinds of, like, residential centers and just like, you know, doing the. The kind of, like, evil empire stuff they've been doing in this war all along. And yet the discourse is supposed to be that because Ukraine blew up a bunch of Russian warplanes and also made a separate attack on a bridge with nobody on it just this morning that, like, they're the, like, oh, man, there's. Isn't it. Isn't it terrible how in war. In war, there are no clean hands? You know, that kind of nonsense. And they're not even saying that. They're not even saying Ukraine's as bad as Russia. They're just saying Ukraine's bad for doing this stuff. I mean, it's completely. It's completely insane and just. I don't know, I guess it's not beneath comment because we're commenting on it, but. But it makes you dumber reading it.

[Andrew Egger]

Nothing's beneath comments anymore, Andrew. All right, well, it's a positive development. We have a few of those these days. So it's important for us to jump on and provide that for y' all. We'll be keeping an eye on it. Make sure to subscribe to the feed. Go read Andrew's newsletter. What'd you write about today? I'm behind today.

[Bill Kristol]

This morning, Federalist Society, man. I'm doing one cheer for conservative institutions which. Which every time I do that, I get completely owned by. Never mind, guys.

[Andrew Egger]

Start tomorrow. Start on tomorrow's newsletter. You're going to like that one better. We'll see you all back here soon.