Bulwark Takes — “Ben Shapiro Nuked His Own Allies at TPUSA”
Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Sam Stein, with guest Will Sommer (False Flag newsletter)
Summary by Bulwark Takes Podcast Summarizer
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into Turning Point USA’s AMFest conference, where conservative commentator Ben Shapiro delivered a dramatic, confrontational speech denouncing Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, and even other right-wing media faces like Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly. Sam Stein and Will Sommer break down the speech’s significance, the right’s ongoing infighting over the roles of white nationalists and conspiracy theorists, and what it means for the future of the conservative movement.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Ben Shapiro's Speech Was Remarkable
- Setting & Context: At AMFest (Turning Point USA's flagship conference) in Phoenix. The conference is emotionally charged, being the first since founder Charlie Kirk’s assassination; Kirk's widow Erica is central at the event.
- Divided Audience: Shapiro’s call for rejecting Fuentes and Owens sparked intense reactions—some cheered, some booed, highlighting a significant division.
- “It seemed like half the audience was jeering and half the audience was, you know, hollering in approval.” — Sam Stein [01:44]
2. The Internal Right-Wing “Civil War”
- Fuentes & Anti-Semitism: Will Sommer describes the conservative movement as facing a civil war over whether white nationalists and anti-Semites like Nick Fuentes should be allowed a role in the party.
- “...the conservative movement right now is having a sort of civil war...what role white nationalists and anti-Semites like Nick Fuentes should have in the party...” — Will Sommer [02:12]
- Owens & Conspiracy Theories: Owens has promoted conspiracy theories suggesting Charlie Kirk’s murder involved TPUSA staff, further dividing the community.
3. Shapiro Calls Out His “Friends”
- Public Accountability Over Private Loyalty: Shapiro blasts conservative figures for refusing to speak out against Owens due to personal relationships.
- “Even if it were true that other public figures were our best friends, our very best friends, that does not relieve us of our duty to speak out of principle and not to cover up evil...” — Ben Shapiro [05:06]
- Targets:
- Tucker Carlson: For echoing Owens’ lines of questioning
- Megyn Kelly: For trying to stay neutral and “backchannel” instead of condemning conspiracy theories
4. The Megyn Kelly Factor
- Kelly is critiqued for hesitating to condemn Owens, trying to act as a mediator, and appearing intimidated by Owens' following.
- “She was seen as sort of allowing Candace Owens to pillage Charlie Kirk's legacy, terrorize his family and friends with her conspiracy theories.” — Will Sommer [07:14]
5. Owens’ Strategy & Audience Reaction
- Candace Owens’ Tactics: When criticized, Owens claims it’s proof her critic is complicit, continuing to fuel conspiracies with no evidence.
- “Any attack on her becomes evidence that you are complicit in a brutal murder.” — Sam Stein [13:50]
- Pro-Fuentes Energy: Surprising segment of the crowd supports hearing from Fuentes (and even Owens), despite their attacks on the organization itself, reflecting the movement's ongoing radicalization.
6. Leadership Vacuum at TPUSA
- There’s no leader with enough charisma to keep TPUSA unified or control its trajectory after Kirk’s death.
- “They don't have someone with this kind of charisma that it takes to survive in right wing media and to sort of... control the trends.” — Will Sommer [09:37]
7. Hypocrisy & Platforming
- Shapiro’s Contradictions: Stein points out Shapiro himself helped build up Owens’ platform and has excused problematic figures; the “clean hands” claim is shaky.
- “In a speech that went after people for platforming bad actors. Ben Shapiro is also responsible for platforming bad actors… he helped elevate Candace…” — Sam Stein [10:00]
- “[Shapiro’s] hands are clean is ridiculous.” — Will Sommer [12:05]
8. Tucker Carlson’s Riposte
- Carlson disputes the whole debate, mocking calls for deplatforming as “leftist” and downplaying the risk posed by Fuentes and Owens.
- “To hear calls for, like, de-platforming and denouncing people at a Charlie Kirk event. I'm like, what?” — Tucker Carlson [15:00]
- Weaponizing "Cancel Culture": Sommer notes how far-right figures use anti-cancel culture rhetoric as a shield for extremism.
9. The Conservative “Chinese Finger Trap”
- No Way to Win: Pushing back on extremists is framed as proof of conspiracy or as "being the left."
- “If you dare push back at Candace, it becomes used as evidence that you're part of the conspiracy. If you call for people to not platform people like Candace or Nick Fuentes, you become opposed to free speech. And so there's nothing you can actually do to win these arguments.” — Sam Stein [15:50]
10. The Future: More Splits or Reunification?
- It’s not yet a full break, but lines are being drawn.
- Possible emergence of rival organizations or further radicalization signaled by young attendees’ “griper-themed” questions (e.g., USS Liberty).
- “You might see, for example, scuffles at America Fest. Oh wait, we're already getting that.” — Will Sommer [20:15]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the stakes of Shapiro’s speech:
“It was kind of like a family meeting where there's been a lot of, you know, text messages flying back and forth and then you have Thanksgiving dinner and then it's time to, okay, let's hash this out. And I mean they, I mean, Ben Shapiro really tore into a lot of these people.” — Will Sommer [04:03] -
On Megyn Kelly’s reaction:
“Ben Shapiro and Barry Weiss in a joint attack on yours truly… without a damn clue what has been going on behind the scenes… I'm embarrassed for them.” — Quoting Megyn Kelly’s tweet [12:53] -
On Candace Owens’ logic:
“It’s beyond obvious that Ben is tremendously fearful about something related to this assassination…” — Quoting Candace Owens’ tweet [13:26] -
On the challenge of confronting extremism:
“It’s a Chinese finger trap. The more you pull out, the harder it gets to pull.” — Sam Stein [15:50] -
On the lack of charismatic leadership post-Kirk:
“Turning Point is sort of wide open for the taking right now.” — Will Sommer [12:40]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [01:44] — Audience reactions at Shapiro's speech
- [02:12] — Sommer on the conservative “civil war”
- [05:06] — Shapiro direct quote rebuking Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly (audio clip)
- [07:14] — Sommer on Megyn Kelly’s role
- [09:37] — Discussion on leadership vacuum at TPUSA
- [10:00] — Stein on Shapiro’s own history of platforming
- [12:53] — Reading Megyn Kelly and Candace Owens’ tweets
- [15:00] — Tucker Carlson mocks deplatforming and cancel culture (audio clip)
- [15:50] — Stein on the “Chinese finger trap” of arguing with extremists
- [16:56] — Tucker reframes “Nazi” as new “racist” epithet
- [18:58] — Audience Q&A reveals groiper sentiments rising
- [20:15] — Sommer discusses emerging splits and potential brawls
Conclusion
The episode provides a lucid account of the growing rift within the right, exposed by Shapiro's unusually direct confrontation at TPUSA’s most significant annual event. The Bulwark’s analysis is laced with dark humor and clear exasperation at a movement unable or unwilling to root out racist and conspiratorial actors. The big question left: Is this the moment the conservative coalition breaks, or do the extremists win by simply refusing to be exiled and turning every attempt at accountability into a new front in the endless “cancel culture” war?