Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes

Episode Title: BOMBSHELL: DOJ Rushes Comey Indictment Before Deadline
Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (Bulwark), with guest Kyle Cheney (Politico)

Overview

This emergency episode discusses the shocking and unprecedented indictment of former FBI Director James Comey by the Department of Justice. Host Sam Stein and Politico’s Kyle Cheney break down the charges, timing, political motivations, and implications for the rule of law and the Department of Justice (DOJ).

Key Discussion Points

1. The Indictment’s Significance and Context

• Unprecedented Move:
  The hosts frame the Comey indictment as a pivotal, "Rubicon crossing" moment in American politics, emphasizing how it reflects a new willingness by President Trump’s administration to act on personal political vendettas.

  • "It feels like a Rubicon Crossing thing that, you know, we've thought was possible for a long time, and now it's here." – Kyle Cheney (00:50)

• Change from First Trump Term:
  This time, Trump has surrounded himself with aides willing to follow through on his directives, unlike the resistance in his first term.

  • "This time around, he surrounded himself with people who aren't going to give him that answer [of 'no']." – Kyle Cheney (01:10)

• Rushed Timing:
  The DOJ had a tight deadline due to the statute of limitations expiring, which forced the indictment now.

  • "The reason Comey, I think, went first was because they only had until Tuesday to charge him or else... they couldn't bring the case at all." – Kyle Cheney (02:07)

2. The Charges and Legal Oddities

• Nature of Charges:

  • Two counts:
    • A false statement during 2020 congressional testimony regarding the 2016 Trump-Russia investigation and authorizations for anonymous press contacts.
    • Obstruction of Congress, vaguely connected to the same testimony.
  • Grand jury rejected a third charge (also a false statement count).
    • "The two charges he faces, it's a false statements charge... and then the second charge is an obstruction of Congress charge..." – Kyle Cheney (02:39)

• Prosecutorial Abnormalities:

  • The U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia was fired for refusing to indict; replaced with Trump’s personal attorney, Lindsey Halligan (previously in Florida insurance law, no prosecutorial experience).
    • "Lindsey Halligan, signed this document rather than a career prosecutor. That itself is extraordinary, almost never happens." – Kyle Cheney (04:17)

• Sparse Indictment Document:
  Only two pages, no career DOJ staff sign-offs.

• Grand Jury Rejection:

  • Unusually, the grand jury turned down one charge in a DOJ-friendly setting.
    • "When a grand jury turns down a prosecutor under those circumstances, it tells you that case is really bad." – Kyle Cheney (05:31)

• Specifics of Allegation:

  • The core is about whether Comey lied about authorizing leaks—including conflicting testimony involving Andy McCabe and possibly related to a Columbia professor.
    • "There's one exchange he had with Ted Cruz... Comey says, I'm not going to dispute what Andy McCabe said to you, but I'm going to stand by my statement that I never authorized a leak to the press." – Sam Stein (07:39)

3. Legal and Strategic Challenges to Prosecution

Kyle Cheney previews five major legal obstacles the DOJ faces:

• Selective Prosecution:
  Trump’s explicit involvement and vendetta make proving impartiality difficult.

  • "It's hard to imagine a fact pattern that's more explicit than that [selective prosecution]." – Kyle Cheney (09:36)

• Presidential Interference in Fair Trial:
  Concerns over Trump’s public commentary tainting jury pool.

  • "Trump's inability to refrain from commenting... this would be an example of where they say the government has to stop talking because you're going to corrupt the jury pool." – Kyle Cheney (09:58)

• Difficulty Prosecuting Lies to Congress:
  Legally, false statement cases require proof of intent, knowledge, and material effect—very challenging.

  • "It's extremely difficult to prosecute lies to Congress because a lot of things are subjective..." – Kyle Cheney (11:12)

• Authorization Issue:
  The relevant facts are heavily dependent on who authorized leaks; consensus is that McCabe, not Comey, was the source.

4. Immediate Next Steps

• Comey to Turn Himself In:
  Will occur the following day.

• Comey's Attorney:
  Patrick Fitzgerald, a high-profile figure, will represent Comey.

• Pre-Trial Proceedings:

  • Arraignment scheduled for October 9.
  • Expectation of extensive pre-trial motions, aiming for dismissal or limiting the scope ("motion to dismiss," "discovery hearings," etc.).
    • "I think everything's going to be about motion to dismiss discovery. You know, what, what evidence are they relying on here?" – Kyle Cheney (12:19)

• Judge Assigned:
  Biden appointee with Trump case history.

5. The Justice Department at a Crossroads

• Profound Institutional Damage:
  The episode concludes with discussion of the ripple effects on DOJ morale and legitimacy.
  • "Everyone who I know and who I read, who covers the Justice Department, says this is basically the end of it as we know it. That it's, it's no longer. That sort of post Watergate idealism that it had embodied is gone..." – Sam Stein (13:11)
  • "Comey's son in law resigned minutes after the indictment. He was a veteran prosecutor...and quit right away and over this exact issue." – Kyle Cheney (14:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We only bring Kyle in for five alarm fires, and this one, I think, counts." – Sam Stein (00:30)
• "It's almost too obvious to infer. I mean, no one was willing to sign off on this." – Kyle Cheney (04:55)
• "When a grand jury turns down a prosecutor under those circumstances, it tells you that case is really bad." – Kyle Cheney (05:31)
• "I have a hunch. I don't know what it's based on. I just have this hunch that Trump might actually tweet a fair bit during this." – Sam Stein (10:36)
• "This is sort of ripping the band aid off... you see the indictment, you say, I can't believe this happened." – Kyle Cheney (14:17)

Timeline of Key Segments

• 00:30 – Introduction to the emergency, overview of the indictment.
• 01:07 – Discussion of the political context and consequences inside DOJ.
• 02:39 – Kyle Cheney details charges and rare grand jury move.
• 03:37 – Breakdown of the unusual nature of the prosecution and who brought the indictment.
• 05:31 – Explanation of grand jury's rejected charge.
• 07:39 – The specifics of the alleged false statement and conflicting testimonies.
• 08:56 – Exploration of Trump's role and questioning the fairness of the prosecution.
• 09:36 – Legal obstacles: selective prosecution, jury taint, etc.
• 12:19 – What happens next: arraignment, motions, legal tactics.
• 13:11 – Impact on the Department of Justice’s legitimacy and institutional health.

Tone and Language

The conversation is urgent, skeptical, and deeply concerned about the future of the DOJ and U.S. legal norms. Both speakers use a frank, analytical tone, occasionally pausing for wry humor as they process the unprecedented news live.

For Further Listening

Listeners are encouraged to follow additional coverage as the story develops, particularly for updates on pre-trial motions and the broader constitutional implications.