← Bulwark Takes
Loading summary
Transcript123 lines
- [00:01]
A
All right, we're live, folks. It's Max. Tawny, it's me, Sam Stein. Scott Pelly was just fired. Max, thank you for leaving your dinner. I don't know who you were eating with or if it was even a good meal. Max left his dinner to jump in an Uber to get on this for us. And in exchange, I'm allowing him to drink from his semaphore mug.
- [00:23]
B
I appreciate that, Sam. Thank you so much. It was, I was actually, I was at a media dinner talking about the future of, you know, of media at a really great restaurant in New York when this, when this news broke. And of course, you know, I was already on my phone texting with a lot of people and, you know, reading some of the reactions and talking to folks and you know, you, you beckoned and so.
- [00:46]
A
Well, I wouldn't want to talk about toxic workplace environments at meeting companies with anyone else than someone who has been with me at a couple of those. But we're going to get into that in a bit. First, the news. Scott Pelley, revered CBS anchor and correspondent for 60 News, was fired tonight by the newly minted, I should say executive producer of the program, Nick Bilton. So the lengthy firing letter, I don't know if we can put it up. There it is. I'm not going to read all of it. A lot of throat clearing up top about how built and wants to have a productive relationship and come into the program, bring new ideas, meet people, have one on one conversations. And then it references what happened yesterday, which was Pelly went on a absolute heater. I think is the best way to describe it during an all staff meeting ripped Nick Bilton a new one said Barry Weiss, who's the head of CBS News basically wants to kill 60 minutes. And then they just, you know, people are saying Barry Weiss's deputy was telling Scott Pelly he was being rude. Scott Pelly said that person was being rude and Barry Russ is being rude. Anyways, long short of it is they tried to patch it up today, didn't go well. And then this afternoon Nick Belton sends this or this evening, Nick Belton sends this letter to Pelly and says your antipathy to the future of the show has come through loud and clear. And I've heard you. I therefore write on behalf of CBS News Inc. To inform you that your employment with CBS is terminated for cause. And I think that's going to be important, effectively immediate, effective immediately. Enclosed is your formal termination letter. We don't get the enclosure in this, but Max, I'm not surprised that it came to this, are you?
- [02:24]
B
No, I'm not. It seemed like it was headed in this direction, you know, at least over the last 24 hours. I don't think the folks at CBS, the new regime, thought it was going in this direction. When I was talking to people over there in the new leadership cohort last week about the future of some of these correspondents, like Peli, like Leslie Stahl, like Bill Whitaker, there was a lot of optimism. At least that was the future line, that some, the of, of these folks would return. And clearly on Monday, Peli disrupted that by saying that the new network editor in chief, Barry Weiss, was murdering 60 Minutes and generally questioning the credentials of Nick Bilton, questioning the credentials of Bari Weiss, Nick Bilton being. Yeah. The new executive producer of cbs. It was a remarkable, remarkable set of remarks. And clearly Nick and the new leadership at, at CBS didn't think it was going well. They ended the meeting after like 15 minutes. I think they thought it was going to go a very different way and it didn't.
- [03:30]
A
Yeah, I don't know how you can anticipate the meeting's going to go that way. Like, actually don't. You know what? Let me, let me.
- [03:37]
B
Have you been in a newsroom meeting that's that bad? Have you been in a newsroom meeting?
- [03:41]
A
We talked about this today. I've been in bad newsrooms, bad newsroom meetings, but not that bad. Nothing like that. No way.
- [03:46]
B
No way.
- [03:47]
A
Yeah, but, okay, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's test run this though. Was it that crazy to think it would go that way? Right. Like, I mean, let me put it this way. Were you surprised that Pelly did this?
- [04:01]
B
I mean, look, I, I think that Pelly's outward Persona to a lot of people who might consume 60 Minutes or who are familiar with his 30 year career at the network would think, you know, this is not necessarily the most, you know, animated individual in broadcast news. You know, he's not your Don Lemon or your Tucker Carlson or any of these types of folks. I guess neither of those guys are in network news either anymore or in cable news. But he was on, you know, he was on 60 Minutes in the evening news, known for being really straight and narrow down the middle. So I think in that, always holding
- [04:39]
A
his glasses, kind of chewing on them, you know, in some ways, in some,
- [04:43]
B
in some ways he was dismissed from, or it didn't work in one of the previous iterations of his career because he was kind of considered to be a bit boring. So I think in that way, this was a bit of a surprise. But they shouldn't have been surprised by the overall morale within the network and the tone from a lot of the longtime staffers, which is frustration, anger and disbelief that they're being layered by people who, you know, do don't have experience in network news, not to mention the ideology and the.
- [05:13]
A
Was there anything, was there anything Pelly said in that initial meeting that was like, factually unfair? They don't have experience. No, Barry Weiss does. I mean, I guess you can interpret whether Barry Weiss is trying to murder 60 Minutes. That's probably just an opinion, right? Like, but she doesn't have experience. Nick doesn't have experience. They have gutted 60 minutes. Right. Though all that's fair, I guess it's an interpretation of whether, you know, Barry's trying to, you know, do something new with the program in hopes of saving it, or if she's just trying to do a political project with the program
- [05:49]
B
and whether they care about it. I think one of the, one of the comments that, that Nick Belton made was that he cared a lot about the institution and Scott Pelly said, you know, oh, please, or something like that. And so I think that that's something that I'm sure Nick Bilton would say, of course, that he cared about something like this. I spoke to him last week when he was hired, you know, said all the things that you say when you're,
- [06:13]
A
he was remarkably on point. Right?
- [06:15]
B
He, that's what, that's what somebody said. I, I didn't make that comment. I mean, no, I did not make that comment. That was, that was made by one of our, one of my esteemed peers in the media reporting business. I, you know, I thought it was quite remarkable that he said that he wasn't intimidated by taking the job at CBS News. He said, you know, he said it's not the slightest bit intimidating. I, I told him in the interview, this doesn't come up in, in the text, but I said I, I would personally would be intimidated. You know, I, I have also written columns and newsletters and nobody's hiring me yet to be the head of the program that's watched by 9 million people every week.
- [06:55]
A
Hey, they have, one could dream they have some openings to fill now. Actually, now that you mentioned it, who's going to fill this job like that? That's the thing. It's like, who the hell now takes this job and who can they get?
- [07:09]
B
Well, look, there are, and I've been talking to People at cbs. There are a lot of people within the network who would love to be on 60 Minutes. It is watched by the largest audience for broadcast news in the country. It's putting up numbers that most programs still don't get, at least in the
- [07:28]
A
news category, it's a behemoth.
- [07:30]
B
So there are a lot of people who haven't. Yeah, there's a. There's a lot of people who would love to be on right after Sunday Night Football. That's right.
- [07:37]
A
I guess the other way to think about those. What kind of person are they going to be looking for? I mean, you're right. They. They can hire tons of people. It's a question of what kind of person they would. They would want to hire at this point.
- [07:47]
B
Certainly, I think I know the direction that you're going with this, too, which is.
- [07:51]
A
I want to know what you think. You're playing it very straight, my man.
- [07:54]
B
I'm not. Hey, look, I'm.
- [07:55]
A
You were playing it straight.
- [07:57]
B
No, I mean, of course I want the unvarnished.
- [07:59]
A
Max.
- [08:00]
B
I. The unvarnished of the unvarnished. Take this. Is. This is.
- [08:03]
A
Did you not have any drinks at this? What happened?
- [08:06]
B
I had a. I, I had a. I had a glass of sparkling wine or maybe two, but it was pretty good. Um, but. No, no, no. But, but, but, but to answer your question, seriously, there is the question of how much ideology, you know, political ideology goes into this. And this was. There was a discussion I was having with another media executive today where we were discussing, you know, if there have been some reports out there that, that, that Paramount is not happy with Barry Weiss and how she's in her stewardship of CBS News, which in some ways I think are actually, like, kind of unfair to Barry. What did you expect? You're hiring someone who has edited a, you know, a successful, but a substack to run a major television news broadcast with hundreds and hundreds of more people non ideological, too. Like, this is a very, very difficult. This is a very difficult thing. And so when I was talking to this media executive, we were having the conversation of, well, it's going to go, you'll. It's going to go one of two ways because it depends on what. What David Ellison, you know, and other investors want. Do they want something that is going to make money and continue to, you know, operate as a business. Continue to operate as a business similar to what they had been doing before, or do they care more about ideology and inserting ideology into the news? Is this an ideological project or is this a business Project for the moment this was answered.
- [09:32]
A
You think so? Because I think it was sense. Yeah. I want to give people a sense of the scope of the business we're talking about. Okay. And I have the numbers right in front of me, but we referenced them on an earlier broadcast. I think 60 Minutes made something like $260 million in ad revenue in like Q1, I think. I don't know, something crazy.
- [09:52]
B
It's unbelievable.
- [09:53]
A
Someone's gonna have to fact check me on that. Whoever's in the who's ever sorry. $206 million total in 2024. Okay, so I was not Q1, I was a little bit off. But $206 million for one. For one show. This is a behemoth, you know, that's still going to be there. There's still going to be audience. It's coming in after football, it's going to be there. But like, you know, that's not something you really want to with honestly, it's
- [10:20]
B
harder to make the pitch to advertisers too.
- [10:23]
A
Right. So who they replace Pelly with. Let's put up, actually put up the picture of the correspondence because it's not just Pelly. Okay. You have Vargas on the left. You have Whitaker and Stahl in the middle. I don't know if they stick around after this.
- [10:37]
B
There's a huge open question. I reported in my story with Built in last.
- [10:41]
A
Oh, that's not Vargas on the left. Sorry. That's, it's. That's what's her face. That's Cheryl on the left.
- [10:46]
B
Vargas. Yes.
- [10:47]
A
And Anderson Cooper on the right. Both of them are gone.
- [10:49]
B
Both of them are gone.
- [10:50]
A
Is now gone. You have Stahl and Whitaker right there. Who. And there's an open question about that.
- [10:57]
B
Yeah, I mean we reported in our story on Thursday. I reported in my story on Thursday that Leslie Stahl has been on year to year contracts. She's 84. She's been on year to year contracts with CBS for a long time. I know, it's amazing. She's been on year to year contracts so. And as far as I know, at least recently she hadn't re upped that. That deal. So it'll be interesting to see she could walk without any sort of consequences. They can't force her to stay. Bill Whitaker, it'll be all. It'll also be a really interesting, you know, question about him given as you mention mentioned, all of the it's other folks are. Are all gone.
- [11:31]
A
So. Yeah, so it's Sharon Alfonsi again. I butchered the names And I'm an idiot. Sharon Alfonsi. We got Whitaker, who's the second to the left guy. I should know this.
- [11:39]
B
I. I should know it as well. I'm a little embarrassed. I feel like we're seven out of eight or there six out of seven. It's not terrible.
- [11:46]
A
We're not doing so bad.
- [11:47]
B
I know the viewers can let the viewers.
- [11:49]
A
John Wortham. Okay. Then you have Whitaker, Stahl, Pelly. Then you have Cecilia Vega and Cooper. And out of those, I mean, you might be left behind. I mean, is John Worth gonna be the last one? It's like this could be a huge, dramatic overhaul. We haven't really seen any names floated about potential replacements. Although I will say our old boy, our old pal Lachlan Cartwright had a name today. It was an unconventional one. I hadn't seen this one floated. Ex New York Times guy, Matthew Rosenberg. So he's now in private equity or, like hedge fund management or something.
- [12:25]
B
Nice guy, but caught up. Caught up in Project Verit.
- [12:30]
A
Cross.
- [12:30]
B
Hey, Sting.
- [12:32]
A
So was I. So was I. I was.
- [12:34]
B
Were you. How did you respond to that? Did they just followed you around, though?
- [12:37]
A
No, they didn't. They actually didn't sting me. They. They did a sting of my journalist, my Columbia Journalism School professor.
- [12:42]
B
Oh, my God.
- [12:43]
A
I remember to try to get me. Yeah.
- [12:45]
B
Oh, my God, that's crazy. But they didn't actually. They never got you.
- [12:48]
A
Yeah, no, there's like. Well, the journalism press was like, yes, Sam's a great reporter. He likes to get sources drunk. And they're like, ah, hey, I actually. Yeah, we're get. We're getting off, off, off topic here. So. Yeah, the future. 60 Minutes. Unknown questions. We'll see. I find I. I think you're right, though. I think we got an answer that this is a political and ideological project and not a business one.
- [13:09]
B
Can we. Can we, like, expand on that a little bit? Because I do think that there is. I think that there's something there. I. I think that the decision by Barry Weiss and David Ellison, who talked to Nick Bilton about his hiring and the decision to move forward, I think really said a lot about what direction that they want to take this. I think that if they had been really concerned about the direction that Barry was going in and they wanted to put someone. They wanted to change up 60 minutes, but put someone in charge who, you know, could be a. Could oversee this in kind of a steadier transition. I don't think David Ellison would have signed off on Nick Bilton. Right. Because he is.
- [13:53]
A
Yeah.
- [13:53]
B
I don't think that Nick is necessarily a controversial pick in terms of his ideas, but he is unconventional. And like many of the leaders at the new cbs, like Barry, like Charles Farrell from the Wall Street Journal, like Adam Rubenstein who was at New York Times Opinion with Barry, these are people who do not have traditional television broadcast experience. So what they're saying with what they were saying when they hired built in, what they were saying by firing all of these individuals is that they, this is the new cbs. They have an idea of what they want to do. Ideologically, what is the.
- [14:23]
A
Okay, fine. Ideologically, that's fine. I, I, I can understand that. But like operationally and just from like a user experience standpoint, what does that mean? Right, because you be like, well, we're going to be like really much more aligned with like short form video, but
- [14:38]
B
like, come on, make more tik toks, I guess.
- [14:41]
A
Is that really it?
- [14:42]
B
I mean, you've seen the stuff that, you know, Olivia Reingold has done for, for CBS and some of the other, some of the other younger folks from Free Press have done cbs, that's just a different product. I, I know, I, look, I, I don't disagree with, it's like turning the,
- [14:59]
A
it's like it would be like turning the New York Times op ed page into like a bunch of tweets.
- [15:03]
B
You mean like turning, you mean like turning the Washington Post op ed page into a series of right leaning short form videos.
- [15:10]
A
Oh wait, actually that is the project and it's gone. It's been a huge success. No, but in all seriousness, the entire got attention for a brief time. Yeah, for the wrong reason. Yeah, but again, the product is we do serious broadcast journalism. It's the one place you can get investigative television journalism. And it's like, you know, we, we all talk about Mike Wallace and Rivera, all that stuff, but like that's real. And yeah, you know that, you know, there are brand issues here that you have to run into. You don't, can't, not everything should or can be turned into vertical short form videos as much as, like, I, you know, you know, as much as people are consuming them, there is still an appetite for what they do. Obviously.
- [15:52]
B
Look, I'll say this. I hope that a lot of people are wrong. I hope that, I hope that they do continue to do the important work, you know, that, that 60 Minutes has done over, you know, over many, many years when it comes to these short form magazine documentaries. Nick Bilton talking to me said that he touted his experience as a documentary and look I, I, we haven't seen what he's done yet, so it's hard to judge what it's going to look like. All we can all be off of is, you know, some of the firing decisions they made and some of the management decisions in these early days. So which points.
- [16:27]
A
Look, I guess I got you. Let me, let me just say we're gonna take a tiny commercial break because we got to hear from our sponsors. My favorite, my favorite sponsor. I don't know if you know this about me. I'm a big pocket hose guy. Did you know this?
- [16:38]
B
I, I, I don't even know if I did not know.
- [16:41]
A
You don't know what a pocket hose is? Oh, no, man, you're about to. Sorry, your mind's about to be blown. Pocketos is the best hose on the market and I don't, I will hawk that stuff all day long. We're gonna hear from Bogos. I'm not gonna keep you too long. I know you got, it's bedtime for you. It's like way past your bedtime, actually. But on the, on the, on the other side of this ad, I do want to talk about Pelly and what comes next room. So let's hear first from one of the great, one of the great products on the market, pocketos. Folks, I've genuinely not been more excited to ever do an Avery before. I am stoked to tell. I'm loving this number one expanding garden hose and their brand new product, the pocket hose ballistic. Yes, the pocket hose. You know, I love the pocket hose. I have it in with me in the office for some reason. I have it at home as well. Been using it to water my lawn, get those flowers nice for the spring. Pocket hose is the number one expendable hose in the world. It's super lightweight, it's easy to manage, easy to store. You turn on the water and it just grows. And then you turn off the water and it shrinks back to pocket size. Hence pocket hose. It's that simple. It's that great. And offered limited time, when you purchase a new pocket hose ballistic, you will get a free 360 degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. You just have to do a little text Detects. Takes to 64,000. That's takes t a k e s to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase text takes to 64,000. Messaging data rates may apply. I mean, look how happy those people are with their pocket.
- [18:14]
B
Do you use the pocket hose? Are you out there in the in the yard with the pocket hose.
- [18:18]
A
Do I use the pocket hose? Yeah, I use it all the time. Pocket. Really, Tim?
- [18:24]
B
What did they make Tim do? Tim had the wallet commercials.
- [18:27]
A
Right, Tim? That's a lot of commercials. People love. Yeah, people love Tim Hawk and their stuff, but pocket hose? I'm hoping to become the face of the franchise. I love my pocket hose. Honestly, folks, if you're gardening, I didn't realize.
- [18:39]
B
Are you out there with the lawnmower? I didn't realize that.
- [18:41]
A
Anyway. Yeah, man, I'm suburban and everything. All right. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.
- [18:47]
B
Just kidding.
- [18:48]
A
Not for this.
- [18:48]
B
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
- [18:50]
A
Scott Pally. So, Scott Pelly, let's just. He put. He talked to the Times. I don't know why he didn't answer your phone call. I guess you're not as important.
- [18:58]
B
Thanks a lot. Thank you.
- [19:00]
A
Well, he just took a little swipe in my pocket. I was left. He said, I have been in combat in Afghanistan. I have been in combat in Iraq. I've been in the war zone in Ukraine multiple times, risking my life and the happiness of my family because of my devotion to the broadcast. I think that's just sort of in reference to his love for 60 minutes. I'm not really sure if he revealed much with that statement. So I don't think you. You missed much there, Max. But, like, what comes next? Someone was joking. Maybe it was Megan Kelly's producer or something like that. Like, Scott Pelly and Leslie Stall are going to go start, like a substack and be on YouTube with their independent channel. And Barry Weiss is going to be at Legacy Media. It's just like an inversion.
- [19:37]
B
It's true. And, you know, that is a. That is really true. But look, I mean, we can laugh at it all we want, but you people watching this know, because they are watching. And, you know, we've seen it with folks like Don Lemon and with Megyn Kelly and with Piers Morgan and with Tucker Carlson. Yeah. With Terry Moran, with, you know, Jim Acosta. There are. There is obviously life after these, you know, losing your job in cable or in broadcast. And in some ways, it can be advantageous. And now you are unshackled and you are. You can be in front of as large an audience as. Maybe not as large on, you know, immediate basis, but the footprint is definitely still. Is still quite big. Megyn Kelly is as. Is as influential as she's ever been. Don Lemon certainly, I think, has more people watching some of these videos than you know, some of the worst days of the morning show, he. They moved him on to. So, look, I wouldn't be surprised. I was talking to someone, a CBS veteran today who was saying that, you know, they wouldn't be surprised if they saw, you know, Pelly and Bill Owens, the old executive producer, team up on something. So that remains to be seen. It could. I could see it happening.
- [20:53]
A
I mean, they could obviously go independent and they'd be fine like you're talking about. I'm curious if there's, like, a package that could be thrown at them. Like, is there a competitor who could be like, look, we could take some of, like, three big 60 Minutes names, piece it together and, like, start a compete, like an actual real competitor, or we just. Beyond something like that.
- [21:11]
B
I think it's. Oh, I think it's over. I mean, I think that. See, I. Look, it's hard to tell. How I think you're right, actually is because they have the last remaining great lead in. In television, which is NFL football on a Sunday night, which is like. I mean, so people continue to watch, right from football into 60 minutes. You really cannot beat that. So I would be very curious what that program would look like if it didn't have football right in front of it. You know, whether people, 9 million people would be watching. I think we're past it. I don't think that any of the competitors, particularly, because there are fewer of them.
- [21:46]
A
Right.
- [21:47]
B
Like, it's really just NBC and abc, and we haven't seen them want to rock the boat with these things. They're not trying to invest more in television. Oftentimes, they're trying to invest less.
- [21:56]
A
No, I think that's 100%. Right. So then you end up with some sort of new venture and independent venture, like, thing, and. But maybe he just doesn't want to do this anymore. Right. Like, so he's been 68. Yeah, he's been at 60 years old since. He's been at 60 minutes since 2004. So that's 21 years, 22 years at the program. It's won 51 Emmys. It's a record. Started at CBS News in 1989. I mean, at some point, you're just like, ah, man, I don't really know if I want to do this anymore. And maybe that's it. Maybe, like, he was just like, I'm at the end of my career. I can. I can go down with my convictions and swinging and, you know, yeah, I don't have to deal with this. And I could understand that. Honestly, I mean, I don't know if I would do it, but I can understand that.
- [22:40]
B
Look, in some ways, it is one of the great, it's up there with some of the great departures. Yeah. I mean, it's. This is kind of how they used to go out in some ways. Maybe not necessarily like this, but dramatic exits from television, from broadcast television. This is the thing that media reporters have been reporting on for, for decades and decades. It's a part of a long tradition, you know, of this type of thing. And, you know, unfortunately, I think we see it, see it more and more.
- [23:09]
A
It reminded me a little bit. It did remind me a little bit, honestly, of the time that you and I met with Alex Thompson at a West Wing Playbook meeting and you were just done with my edits and you were like, sam, go yourself. You're trying to murder the product. I'm not going to deal with this anymore.
- [23:29]
B
Yeah, that's. Yeah, ab. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [23:33]
A
That's why I know backstart for folks. I, I, again, I did edit Max for a little while. Okay, so the other thing. And I'll let you go. Honestly, I promise, I'll let you go. But this was also raised figure who raised it either was Dylan Byers or Lachlan cartwright. But like 60 minutes right now. 60 minutes right now is, is, is on hiatus, but they use this time period to, like, do reporting, right. And to come up with stories and to get things ready for the fall when they come back on. Because, see, because football comes back and, and that's the whole shebang. And they're going into their 59th season and there's like actual questions someone's raising, like actual. Are they going to have content? I mean, I think for season 59, they'll have content.
- [24:15]
B
It just won't. They'll have content. It just won't be like interviews as well produced or they won't be able to do that extra phone call or that extra, you know, shot on location somewhere. You know, they might have to scramble a little bit more. I mean, look, in many ways, they have the luxury of spending a lot more time on these stories than I think you and I maybe have ever spent on any story. That's part of the nice thing, you know, of getting to start your stories for September in June. But certainly, I think, certainly we'll see a drop off in that extra effort because nobody's doing any work right now. I just want to put this out there because I haven't said it anywhere, haven't seen it reported but it was a really interesting scene Today at around 6pm after Scott Pelley had this meeting that didn't go well, you know, with Barry Weiss. And everyone was trying to figure out what to do. Barry, I'm told, you know, Barry was, you know, in an office with Nick Bilton and with Tom Sibrowski, the other president of CBS News, trying to figure out a way forward here. Meanwhile, you know, Pelly was in his office and, you know, there were a lot of his, you know, producers and other folks kind of milling around also, kind of just waiting to see what. What was going to happen. Nobody's doing any work. Nobody's getting any of the stories done for, you know, for the next, you know, for, for the next season. So I think certainly they'll be starting on a bit of a lag.
- [25:50]
A
Yeah. To say the least. No, they're gonna, I think jbl. So this is just gonna have to rely on just interviews. Right. Like they. The one thing Barry's been very good at, honestly, is booking interviews. Right. Totally be Trump and all that stuff. She can use a Rolodex and they'll just do that.
- [26:02]
B
They get different types of guests too. They had Palmer Lucky, who I just wouldn't expect to see on an older episode of 60 Minutes. They'll definitely fill in it. Fill it in with, you know, with some big name folks like that. But the question really is, how do cbs. Is that what CBS viewers want? I mean, technically, when you survey the viewers of broadcast television and of television news, non Fox television News in general, most of them tend to. Tend to be voters for Joe Biden, people who did not, you know, for Kamala Harris, people who were not necessarily supporter. They're consumers of legacy media. Right. So.
- [26:39]
A
All right, let's leave on this. Well, two things. One is predictions. Well, first, no, we'll leave two things. First is the Megyn Kelly trick. So I think she, you know, got to hand it to her sometimes. She had a really funny one about this. Dear Mr. Pelly, your fired effectively mean it would have been far more impactful and less needy. She's right. You didn't need to go through all that for throat clearing the letter. I gotta hand it to Megan Kelly. That one. It would have been more effective. Let's leave on this two years from now. I know. Let's make it three years from now. Is 60 Minutes still in there?
- [27:12]
B
It's a great question. It's such an amazing brand. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have it on the air. I mean, it just. It is five years from now. Yeah. I mean, look, just Time magazine, Time magazine still exists. Newsweek still exists. Somehow, you know, these brands are floating along long after anybody. You know, the millions of people who used to be subscribers and used to be purchasers of the magazines when they were checking out at the grocery store. These brands still exist. I imagine CBS will. 60 Minutes will exist in some sort of form. I just don't think it'll be. It'll have. It may not have the gravitas of previous generations.
- [27:55]
A
All right, you were two. That was too easy. One crazy name or unexpected name for next CBS or 60 Minutes correspondent.
- [28:05]
B
I'm not going to say Stam Stein because I don't want to be too flip here.
- [28:08]
A
Obviously. Obviously, I'm not going to be that.
- [28:10]
B
I mean, look, there are people who are out there who work for CBS right now who are posting on Twitter positive things about Nick Bilton.
- [28:20]
A
You can, you can name names.
- [28:23]
B
There's Jan Crawford, who works for cbs, has been posting some positive stuff. People inside the network thinks that, you know, she wants to be, you know, on there. I. Look, you know, I don't. I mean, I don't know. I'm.
- [28:36]
A
It's a nasty business, Max.
- [28:38]
B
It is. It's not the nastiest thing that I've seen covering television news, I'll tell you that. I mean, you know, there was Weezia Jang, the White House correspondent for CBS News, president of the White House Correspondents association, congratulated Bilton when he got his job. I don't. Maybe she had, you know, put it together when he, when he tweeted that out. So, you know, not really sure. But they're. One thing that I've been hearing from people at CBS today is that there are definitely some folks there. I think there's resentment towards some folks who are waiting in the wings to snap up some of those assignments. But we'll see those assignments be snapped up for sure.
- [29:13]
A
It's a nasty business.
- [29:14]
B
Business.
- [29:14]
A
Look, if I know, if asked, I
- [29:16]
B
would say, yeah, I'm gonna say you've, you know, you're on MSNBC on some un. Look, I'm just gonna read this weekend. Time slots. That would be a better one. I'll say that.
- [29:26]
A
Actually, you're right. I'm contractually obligated. I can't. I can't. I have a conduit now. But I will just say this. The money's good. Two people familiar with. This is from Variety. Two people familiar with the business of 60 CBS News suggest that 60 Minutes correspondence can make as much as 5 million each year with less seasoned on their personnel earning less, while the executive producer earns about 2.5 million and the executive editor on 1 million. Damn.
- [29:50]
B
They're all going to be making less than that. Sorry. But part of this is also there's cost. You know how this goes. There's cost cutting that goes along with getting rid of some of these. Some of these older folks as well. I mean, not some of the folks like Cecilia Vega. They're paying her contract out. She was not.
- [30:04]
A
Okay, sorry. I keep saying I'm going to leave, let you go, but I'm not going to let you go. Sorry. I did reference this. This up front. I said we have to return to it because they fired Scott Pelly with cause. So, I mean, that to me suggests that there's going to be some legal stuff here. Like that, this. He'll.
- [30:22]
B
He.
- [30:22]
A
I mean, he. I. I don't know if he's got a grant to stand on because he did throw an absolute, like. I don't want to call it tantrum. You lob some grenades in there. But, like, is this going to be like one of these things where it gets like a little, you know.
- [30:36]
B
I haven't heard anything about that. I haven't heard anything about that yet. It just depends. It depends on his appetite for it. Right? Like, is that what he wants to do? And like, if he wants to spend money, you know, believing that he was wrong, I, I think. My guess is that he. His defiance today. His defiance today in, In. In the meeting, I think showed that he did not. This was not a thing that he said. He thought, oh, shit, I got a backpedal here. Save my job, maybe. No, he was, he, he. He was okay with the consequences, I think.
- [31:06]
A
I think he knew the consequences. Knew the consequences and did it deliberately and felt like, you know what? I'm gonna go out the way I want to go out. All right, brother. Thank you for doing this, guys. This is. This is the sacrifices this man makes to appear for you. He left three Michelin star restaurant where he.
- [31:28]
B
I think it's. Maybe it's a Michelin Bib gourmand. It's the ones that you can afford, I think. Think. Oh, okay, okay.
- [31:34]
A
He was drinking the finest bubbly, he told me, only for you. And then the Uber driver took a wrong turn and. And he was like, I can't make it. And I kept.
- [31:43]
B
It was a work. It was a work dinner, like a gl.
- [31:47]
A
Oh, sorry, sorry. You told me it was a work fancy day.
- [31:50]
B
No, it was a nice place, but it was a work dinner, you know? You know, you go. You got to go for work.
- [31:54]
A
Well, I was trying to make you out to be a hero, but you're not even. You're so. You're so humble. It's unbelievable. All right, Max Donnie, media reporter and overall mensch, one of the best in the business from Semaphore. Love you, buddy. Thank you for doing this. For everyone else who tuned in on a late Tuesday night, Scott Pelly was fired. We knew it was coming, but big news in the industry, kind of a seismic moment for broadcast journalism. And we'll stay on top of it. So subscribe to the Bulwark. Subscribe to our YouTube feed, where you get great content like this. Talk to you later.