Bulwark Takes – BREAKING: CDC, Education, and Health Departments Hit by Mass Firings

Host: Sam Stein (Managing Editor at The Bulwark)
Date: October 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This emergency episode addresses a wave of mass firings—described as a Friday night "massacre"—across key federal agencies, most notably the CDC, in the midst of an ongoing government shutdown. Sam Stein unpacks the motivations, actions, and consequences of these unprecedented layoffs, with a focus on their potentially dire impact on public health, education, and domestic policy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Context for the Firings

• Date of the Layoffs: Occurred overnight Friday, October 10, 2025 ([00:30])
• Scope: Sweeping layoffs across several agencies, notably the CDC, Department of Education, and Health Departments.
• Official Reason: The administration claims the mass firings are justified by the ongoing government shutdown.
• Unprecedented Nature: "Every single time there's been a shutdown in the past, they've not fired federal employees. They just haven't. They furloughed them." – Sam Stein ([06:30])

2. Focus on the CDC

• Longstanding Tensions: RFK Jr., now Health & Human Services Secretary, has been a critic of the CDC, known for anti-vaccine stances and disputes over the agency’s mission, especially since COVID.
• Leadership Purge: Top leadership at vital CDC institutions such as:
  • The Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (acting director and chief medical officer among those fired)
  • Global Health Center (responsible for ongoing measles outbreak response)
  • Outbreak Response teams for Ebola and other infectious diseases
    ([02:14]–[04:13])
• Critical Functions Hit: Staff responsible for foundational reports like the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) were also let go.
• Morale and Expertise: The firings have "brought [morale] to a different, different level" of low, decimating institutional expertise ([05:41]).

Notable Quote

"It’s a shocking situation. People are really amazed by what’s happening... morale is just terrible there right now. But this is bringing it to a different, different level."
— Sam Stein ([05:41])

3. Process and HR Irony

• Bizarre Firing Process: HR staff (furloughed due to the shutdown) were temporarily brought back to process the terminations of their own colleagues ([04:23]).
• Essential Personnel Targeted: Layoffs included those classified as 'essential,' defying standard shutdown protocol.

"I was told that they had to be unfurloughed to go back to work so that they could process the firings of their colleagues. Talk about messed up. Jesus."
— Sam Stein ([04:27])

4. Other Agencies Impacted

• Department of Education:
  • Main office in charge of special education (IDEA) funding "decimated".
  • Quote from source: "They cut just about ... everyone that works with IDEA funding. I'm not sure how these programs exist moving forward." ([08:03])
• Other Health Offices:
  • Office of Smoking and Health at National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention, Division of Violence Prevention—both gutted.

5. Political Motivations and Fallout

• Pretext for Cuts: Layoffs seen as leveraging the shutdown to pursue long-desired reductions in domestic programs and public health infrastructure.
• Administrative Rationale: Anticipated administration narrative will blame Democrats and the shutdown for the firings.
• Deeper Agenda: Sam asserts these terminations align with RFK Jr.'s and the administration’s goals to weaken agencies like the CDC.

"They're just using this as a pretext to go after domestic programs that they've never wanted to fund in the first place."
— Sam Stein ([08:28])

6. Risks and Public Health Concerns

• Readiness Compromised: With ongoing measles outbreaks and past Ebola scares, Stein highlights the danger of gutting disease monitoring infrastructure.
• Historical Reference: Previous CDC vigilance led to the discovery of AIDS in the 1980s via MMWR, underscoring longstanding institutional value.
• Direct Warning: The host warns of going "into this blind a little bit ... with a decimated workforce ... and lacking the institutional expertise that had made it a leading agency for preventative health ..." ([09:11])

7. Call to Action and Transparency

• Seeking Whistleblower Information: Sam encourages tips from within government agencies to help expose and report on the situation.

"The best way to deal with this and push back on it is to put light on it."
— Sam Stein ([09:41])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Among those... the firings, which have been described as a bloodbath basically in a Friday night massacre..."
  — Sam Stein ([02:14])
• "Why would we want to get rid of the person who is responsible for monitoring measles outbreaks? I don't know. It’s crazy."
  — Sam Stein ([03:09])
• "We have a measles outbreak in this country, and global pandemics have a cute way of getting onshore."
  — Sam Stein ([09:01])
• "We're just going to go into this blind a little bit... you just got to hope for the best. But, boy, this is ominous, to say the least."
  — Sam Stein ([09:20])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:30] – Intro & breaking news recap
• [02:14] – Specifics of firings at the CDC and impact on outbreak responses
• [04:23] – HR process and irony of furloughed staff processing layoffs
• [05:41] – Description of morale and reaction within agencies
• [06:30] – Layoffs as an unprecedented move
• [08:03] – Department of Education ‘decimated’
• [08:28] – Layoffs as pretext for domestic program cuts
• [09:01] – Public health risks & global context
• [09:41] – Call for whistleblower contributions

Conclusion

This episode delivers a sobering account of mass firings at the CDC, Education, and Health Departments during a government shutdown, highlighting both immediate and long-term risks to public health and domestic policy. Stein presents these actions as both unprecedented and ideologically driven, with sharp warnings about the cascading effects for disease response, special education, and government morale. The podcast closes with a call for tips from insiders to illuminate the unfolding situation.