BREAKING: GOP-Controlled Indiana REJECTS Trump's New Map (w/ Adam Wren)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – “BREAKING: GOP-Controlled Indiana REJECTS Trump's New Map (w/ Adam Wren)”

Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Sonny Bunch (Bulwark Managing Editor)
Guest: Adam Wren (Politico, reporting from the Indiana Statehouse)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the dramatic breaking news from Indiana, where the Republican-controlled State Senate rejected President Trump’s aggressive attempt at redistricting the state to favor Republican gains in Congress. Host Sonny Bunch and guest Adam Wren break down the high-pressure tactics used by the Trump White House, the remarkable resistance from Indiana Republicans, and explore the broader implications for GOP unity, federal-state relations, and the redistricting battles nationwide.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scene at the Indiana Statehouse

• Senate Vote: The Indiana State Senate struck down Trump’s proposed map by a commanding margin—31 votes to 19.
  “President Donald Trump was calling individual senators here in the state and trying to get them to flip… This is a significant rebuke of President Donald Trump, of J.D. Vance, of Speaker Mike Johnson.” — Adam Wren [02:23]

• Pressure Campaign: Trump, VP J.D. Vance, and Speaker Mike Johnson intensely lobbied for the map that would have gained them two extra congressional seats ahead of the crucial 2026 elections.

2. The Tactics: From Persuasion to Intimidation

• Bullying Not Persuasion: Instead of offering carrots, the Trump team relied on intimidation: “There was no persuasion or carrots. It seemed like it was all sticks.” — Sonny Bunch [03:31]

• Direct Threats:

  • Senators received "unsolicited orders from Domino's Pizza"—a MAGA-coded intimidation tactic.
  • Reports of “pipe bomb threats” against GOP state senators. “Many of them were fearing for their lives… they felt it was important for them to weigh into this and, by ignoring those threats, to not make a decision under duress.” — Adam Wren [03:47]

3. Financial Leverage and Federal Funding Threats

• Heritage Action Tweet: Explicit threats to withhold federal funds from Indiana surfaced. “For weeks… there have been quietly veiled threats that Indiana’s federal funding, Medicaid expansion, vouchers… was going to get denied, that highway funding was at risk.” — Adam Wren [06:12]

• Unprecedented Presidential Pressure: Both host and guest underline just how rare and shocking it is for a sitting president to threaten party state lawmakers this way: “Again, I’ve never seen a president threaten his own party like that before.” — Unidentified Guest [05:42]

4. Why Did Indiana Republicans Say No?

• Ideological and Practical Motivations:
  • Concerns about local consequences—splitting up Democratic strongholds could backfire and actually hand Democrats a seat.
  • Deep resistance to federal encroachment on state affairs, rooted in “small-c” conservatism.
  • Bizarrely aggressive efforts backfired. “It was all sticks and no carrots. And I think it failed just as a pure lobbying exercise.” — Adam Wren [07:27]

5. The Fallout: A Blow to Trump’s Political Capital

• Lame Duck Vibes?

  • Adam Wren reports the mood: “described a feeling of letting of the air going out of the balloon here, of the White House and Trump losing all their juice.” [09:33]
  • The scope of the defeat will cause other GOP officials, both nationally and statewide, to reconsider the effectiveness of Trump’s pressure campaigns.

• Potential for Retribution:

  • Outside groups like Turning Point plan to spend “eight figures” to primary the Republican senators who voted no.
  • Vice President J.D. Vance is likely to spearhead efforts to punish the Indiana holdouts.

6. Historical and Cultural Reflections

• Questions arise about the unique culture of Indiana Republicanism, rooted in politicians like Mike Pence and Mitch Daniels, possibly making it more resistant to Trump’s tactics. “Maybe there is something in the Republican DNA there that’s different.” — Sonny Bunch [13:16]

• Extraordinary Precedent: “I couldn’t imagine the George W. Bush administration going to Indiana and being like, gerrymander your state so we get an extra seat so I don’t lose the House and get impeached.” — Unidentified Guest [13:48]

7. What Happens Next?

• Trump’s Next Moves: Panelists speculate that Trump will either “lose his mind” or “lose interest” and move on to other feuds, leaving retribution to the likes of J.D. Vance.
• There’s worry about state senator retirements as a result of this ordeal, a sign of the deep impact of the intimidation campaign.
• Implications for Dems: Could Illinois Democrats signal restraint in solidarity? The panel is skeptical about true reciprocity, but recognize the potential as a positive example.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Threats to Lawmakers:
  “They spoke of receiving unsolicited orders from Domino’s Pizza, which is a way that MAGA kind of signals to opponents that they know where you live. They spoke about, you know, pipe bomb threats. Many of them were fearing for their lives.”
  — Adam Wren [03:47]

• On National GOP Pressure:
  “Charlie Kirk, before he was murdered, essentially said that he would spend much of Turning Point’s political capital on primarying these Republican senators… They've said eight figures they will spend against Senate Republicans who voted against us today.”
  — Adam Wren [05:11]
  (Note: Reference to “before he was murdered” appears to be a factual or contextual anomaly in the transcript.)

• On the Unprecedented Nature of the Tactics:
  “I’ve never seen a president threaten his own party like that before.”
  — Unidentified Guest [05:42]

• On Indiana’s Unique Political Culture:
  “That is Mike Pence’s state. That’s Mitch Daniels state. Maybe there is something in the Republican DNA there that’s different.”
  — Sonny Bunch [13:16]

• On What’s Next Nationally:
  “Even if they are kind of the rare case, other Republicans… are going to look at this intense lobbying campaign… and they’re going to have a lot more reason to say no in the coming weeks and months.”
  — Adam Wren [10:35]

• On the Future of Redistricting Fights:
  “Wouldn’t that be great? Oh my God. It would be bad for content, but great for the country.”
  — Sonny Bunch [17:38]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:50] — Breaking news introduction and guest Adam Wren sets the scene
• [02:23] — Recap of the Senate debate and Trump’s last-minute lobbying
• [03:31] — Discussing the intimidation and threats faced by senators
• [05:42] — Analysis of Heritage Action’s federal funding threat
• [07:27] — Deep dive: Why Indiana Republicans rebelled
• [09:33] — The sense of waning Trump influence after recent election cycles
• [13:16] — Reflection on Indiana’s unique GOP DNA
• [14:31] — Speculation on Trump’s likely response and future retribution efforts
• [16:03] — Anticipation of state senator retirements post-vote
• [16:28] — Strategic considerations for Democrats in redistricting

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode is urgent and reflective, balancing breaking-news adrenaline with deeper analysis of party dynamics and the resilience of some institutional norms. The hosts’ and guests’ tone is both incredulous and concerned about unprecedented intimidation tactics, but also notes the surprising principle shown by a group of Indiana state lawmakers.

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By the end, listeners are left with a sense of the real stakes in internal GOP battles—and with lingering questions about how far party leaders and activists will go to enforce conformity in the face of local pushback. The episode captures a pivotal moment in modern party politics as much as it chronicles a single high drama vote in the Indiana Senate.

Transcript

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[Sonny Bunch]

Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. I'm joined by Sonny Bunch and Adam Ren of Politico, who is actually at the Indiana State House. Adam is here because we have breaking news that the Indiana State Senate has rejected the attempt to redistrict the state by a fairly resounding vote. What was it, 31 to 19? Adam? Yeah, basically. After weeks of pressure campaign from the Trump White House, including fairly overt threats, and continued till this day, the Indiana Senate Republicans looked at it and said no, we don't want to do this, Adam, Just paint the scene of how the day went.

[Adam Ren]

Senators convened at 1:30pm and engaged in about three and a half hours of debate. They caucused beforehand. Right up until the last minute. President Donald Trump was calling individual senators here in the state and trying to get them to flip. Senator Greg Good, who represents portions of Terre Haute, Vigo county, was a Republican swing vote. And when he got up today to speak and sort of made an impassioned case for small C, conservatism, federalism, spoke out against misinformation and the bullying tactics. When he spoke, even though he didn't give his voting indication, it was pretty clear that this was not going to go well for the White House. He was a key holdout, hadn't announced his position before today. And so this is a significant rebuke of President Donald Trump, of J.D. vance, of Speaker Mike Johnson. All of them spent a significant amount of time and resources here trying to get a result that would give them two additional congressional seats in 2026, a year when Democrats just need three seats to gain the majority.

[Sonny Bunch]

I was kind of blown away by how nasty it got prior to the vote. I mean, there was no persuasion or carrots. It seemed like it was all sticks. You've been talking to these lawmakers. Can you just give us a sense of how much intimidation they faced, how scared they actually were?

[Adam Ren]

Sam they were significantly scared on Tuesday night. The senators kind of spoke in committee in a more intimate way than they did today during the remarks. But they spoke of receiving unsolicited orders from Domino's Pizza, which is a way that MAGA kind of signals to opponents that they know where you live. They spoke about, you know, pipe bomb threats. You know, many of them were fearing for, for their lives. The ones that I talked to felt that it was important for them to weigh into this and by, by ignoring those threats. They felt that those threats were, you know, compelling them in a direction that was not good a president politically where they would consider, you know, this bill, this bill for maps under duress, and they thought that was bad for and said that they sort of set those aside when they voted today. This is pretty dark stuff. And, you know, unfortunately, in some ways, I think today is just the beginning of continued threats. Many of them say that they don't think that the pressure campaign will stop. President Pro Tempore Roderick Bray, who has had one on one calls with Trump that have been very frank and very heated, have said that they, that there's no way they can bring this back up in 2026. So the White House and Republicans, like Turning Point, they're gonna go all in on retribution mode. And their credibility, to be frank, is on the line. Charlie Kirk, before he was murdered, essentially said that he would spend much of Turning Point's political capital on primarying these Republican senators. And so there's a real test of their ability as an organization here. Are they gonna make good on threats that they're gonna spend tens of millions of dollars? They've said eight figures they will spend against Senate Republicans who voted against us today. So their credibility, and it's a real test of that.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

One thing that jumped out at me today, which I don't think I've ever seen before, was Heritage Action tweeted something like, we're, you know, the president is going to pull all funding from Indiana. There's going to be, you know, how credible did they think that that threat is? Because, you know, the threats against the people's homes is obviously insane and bizarre. And, you know, nobody wants to see that. It feels like the financial levers are potentially more viable. But at the same time, I've. Again, I've never seen a president threaten his own party like that before.

[Adam Ren]

That quote from Heritage Action got a lot of attention prior to session beginning today, and it's really just saying the quiet part aloud. For weeks, Sonny, there have been quietly veiled threats that Indiana's federal funding, its Medicaid expansion voucher, all of this, its application, was going to get denied, that highway funding was at risk. The White House never said these things explicitly. When Vice President J.D. vance came and visited Indian the last time he did, in October, they had Senator Jim Banks, the MAGA Republican, read through all of the federal funding and grants that Indiana was set to receive to senators as a briefing, and he didn't say that would go away explicitly, but he read this to them, and that was part of the conversation here.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

Nice little state you got here.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah, it's like in the Godfather, showing up with the brother right, at the courthouse, like, not saying anything's gonna happen to the guy, but here's your brother by the. So why do you think they said no? I mean, I know you're a Hoosier, and you're gonna be like, well, it's just, you know, the Indiana way. And we, you know, we're. We're good people, but, like, for real, why did they say no?

[Adam Ren]

Well, you've been my editor, Sam, so, you know. You know, I'm not a good person.

[Sonny Bunch]

No, just kidding.

[Adam Ren]

No, there were a number of ideological reasons that they didn't like this. I mean, one of them was more real politic than idealistic. And that that was. They thought that there was a scenario here where splitting mar, the Democratic beating blue heart of the state into four districts would make their lives very complicated politically. They thought that this gerrymander would result into a 6, 3 map where Democrats would actually gain a seat either in northwest Indiana, up by Chicago, which is currently held by Democrat Frank mcvan, or in the center of the state. They thought they could lose. You know, it's not just idealism here or the Hoosier way. It is. You know, they thought this was getting too cute by half. The other. Another thing that you'll hear a lot of people talk about is the pressure campaign. These are small c conservative people. They believe in a divide between federal and state government and they don't want an incursion from Washington whether the White House is held by a Democrat or whether it's held by a Republican. They believe in a division of government here. And so they didn't like the Washington mandate. They also didn't like some of the tactics. There was an aggressive texting campaign. Nearly a million dollars was poured into the state by outside groups threatening to PR Marry them. It was all sticks and no carrots. And so I think it failed just as a pure lobbying exercise.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

The, the potential map going the other way is an interesting one because you hear some of that here in Texas. I live in Dallas there. There are some folks who say, well, this new map that is being drawn up is actually not that great. There's going to be, you know, it relies on, on a lot of demographic ideas that aren't necessarily going to hold. So that's, that's really interesting to hear. But also, I, I mean, I'm just curious, from your, from your sense there in the, in the state House, does it feel like the Trump administration is in kind of lame duck mode? I cannot think of another time when the administration wanted something this badly and failed this catastrophically to get it from Republicans.

[Adam Ren]

Yeah, honestly, as the results were pouring in from New Jersey and Virginia, you know, I was texting with Indiana Republicans and they really, you know, described a feeling of letting of the air going out of the balloon here of the White House and Trump losing all their juice to redistrict and gerrymander Indiana. That feels very much like this. And the fact is, is that, you know, these Indiana Republicans went through with this vote today. I mean, they, they delivered a decisive defeat for the White House. And so even if they are kind of the rare case other Republicans, whether in the US Senate or Congress, are going to look at this intense lobbying campaign, you know, that Trump invested himself in personally, that the vice president invested in himself individually and that, that, that also Speaker Mike Johnson, you know, twisted arms here in the final weeks that, you know, Politico has reported. And so they're going to all look at those people kind of losing political capital here and they're going to have a lot more reason to say no in the coming weeks and months.

[Sonny Bunch]

Adam, I know you gotta go. Thank you so much for this. Really appreciate it. We'll talk to you soon. Bulwark takes a Sponsored by OR Frames. I've got a bit of a holiday gift giving pattern. I tell myself this year it's gonna be different and then I will, will panic at the last minute because I forgot to get the more thoughtful gift and I'll just buy a gift card. Well, this year I skipped the panic and I gave an Aura frame. They are an absolute hit among people at the Bulwark. And I am jealous of Sarah Longwell every time I go into her office because I see that frame right there. It looks so good. You can upload unlimited free photos and video. Just download the Aura app and connect to WI Fi. You can preload photos before chips keep adding from anywhere, anytime. You can share photos and videos effortlessly straight from your phone all year long. It's perfect for sending grandparents their ideal gift, which is pictures of their grandkids. Every frame also comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag for a limited time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting Oraframes.com to get $35 off or as best selling Carver Matte frames. It was named number one by Wirecutter. Use the code. Use the promo code Bulwark takes at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code bulwark takes. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out pretty fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at the checkout. So that was Adam Wren, old buddy of mine, used to be his editor. He's got Indiana down. He's smart. He knows what's going on. He's been following this. I don't want to reveal too much, but I might as well reveal it. He, he thought it would be a lot closer, I think, than the vote was. It was 31:19. A majority of Senate Republicans voted against the new maps, which is remarkable. I was stuck on the Exact thing you were stuck on. I guess it's because you tweeted it prior to talking about it. But like, these are like state lawmakers. These aren't members of Congress. This isn't even a governor. These just random state lawmakers in Indiana. It's like, it's an incredibly conservative state. This isn't even Georgia or, you know, Wisconsin. I don't know. It, yeah, it was a little bit surprising how little juice Trump had with.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

These folks, in a way. Yes. Because again, these are, you think, well, these are, they're going to be wowed by talking to the president. You know, he's, he's got all the power. I do, I do wonder if he just has, he just has so much less direct juice in Indiana. Like, he can threaten House members with, you know, you don't get to come to White House things at the, like, on the very basis level. Right. You don't, you don't get to come to White House things. We're not going to, we're not going to pass your legislation. Like, there's so much legislation being passed right now anyway. I do wonder if he just has nothing. He has nothing. He has no power over them. He has nothing to offer them.

[Sonny Bunch]

That's not true. We just talk. I mean, he could withhold federal funds. He could not do the Medicaid, you know, waivers. He could, you know, there's a bunch of federal stuff he could do. He could primary them. Right. But then you might have hinted at something else. I don't know if it's, this is true. This might be so hokey. But like, you know, it is. That is Mike Pence's state. That's Mitch Daniels state. Maybe there is something in the Republican DNA there that's different. But I just, it's, I don't know, I can't, I can't fathom another administration not being able to, being able to get its way with state lawmakers of their own party.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

Yeah, but I, I, this gets, well, this gets to a broader point, right, Sam, which is, I, I couldn't imagine, like the George W. Bush administration going down to Indiana and being like, gerrymander your state so we get an extra seat so I don't lose the House and get impeached.

[Adam Ren]

You're right.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

You know, like, I, that's, I, I couldn't, I just couldn't imagine that, that happening. I do think, look, I, you know, we, I don't want to get, I don't want to get sentimental or anything, but I do think there is something to be said for Pence and Daniels and that, that sort, and Pence kind of sort of came out. He didn't, he didn't.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah, he made it pretty clear. Right?

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sonny Bunch]

So I guess the question is, you know, where does, what do you imagine Trump does off of this? I, I, I can't, I can only see it going in one direction. Right. It's like he's gonna lose his mind.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

Well, he either, he either loses his mind or he loses interest. Right. I, I could see him just being like, well, okay, what's the next thing you know? I, I, I got a ballroom to build over.

[Adam Ren]

Some.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

We got, we got some, we got some.

[Sonny Bunch]

That's the case for the ballroom. That's the case for the ballroom is you keep them distracted on pretty, like it's not an important thing.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

We got some redecorating to do. You know, it's fine. No, I, but, I mean, I, but you know who won't forget is J.D. vance. J.D. vance is going to make sure that the, that, that people in Indiana are miserable because of this. That, that Republicans in Indiana are miserable because of this. And you know, he's the vice president, so he's got nothing but time. He doesn't have anything else to do.

[Sonny Bunch]

Yeah. And I think this is kind of weirdly, it's become a little bit of a case study for him because he did go there, he did talk to them. He's been pretty, you know, it's in his portfolio, put it that way. And you can see a scenario where Trump's like, how could you this up, JD and then JD has to clean it up. No, you could honestly see that. I get, I don't, I'm with Adam. I don't think this is the end of it. I think they try to make a real example of these people and then it comes down to what do these state senators, what do the lawmakers want to do, what do the voters want to do about that? That like, you know, it's one thing to inflict these types of political pains on Democratic states. It's terribly wrong. It's immoral, it's, it's, you know, but you're not risking, you know, you're starting from like a place where you're probably not risking much politically because they're vote for Democrats generally. It's another thing to do it to your own people. And I have, we haven't seen that yet.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

You have not seen it that often. I will be curious to see how many retirements there are that's going to be the real benchmark, right? Like how many state senators are just like, I don't need this and I'm a state senator. This is not, this is not worth it. I don't know what the. I will be honest. I'm not an expert on Indiana State.

[Sonny Bunch]

I'm not either.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

But I would bet, I bet good money that there's a higher than usual number of incumbent retirements headed into the next, next election.

[Sonny Bunch]

All right, last question for you, because I was, I was thinking about this. If you're the Democrats, you're like J.B. pritzker, right? You could in theory continue to float that you would redistrict Illinois. You get one extra seat potentially out of it. But Indiana just did this. Would the smart thing not be to say, okay, redistricting is off our table now, the Indiana Senate Republicans did the right thing. We're going to do the right thing too. I'm not saying every Democratic state has to do this because you have other Republican states out there, but to me that seems like a no brainer. It's like you have to reward good behavior. You have to show them that there are good outcomes, even if it's not from within their own party. Pritzker should probably go out there and say, tonight I appreciate what they did and we're going to rule us out.

[Adam Ren]

Sure.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

That's, that's, it's not polyamory. Yeah, No, I mean, I agree with you. The problem is that there's no universe in which that is reciprocated. It's not like, it's not like the unilateral disarmament will. Will say. The Republicans will say, ah, okay, I guess we'll, we'll stop doing this everywhere else. I mean, I, you know, I don't know how many more states there are left to do it in, but it does, it would be, it would be nice if everyone just stopped. That would be. That would be real.

[Sonny Bunch]

Wouldn't that be great? Oh, my God. It would be bad for content, but great for the country. Yeah. I live in an Aaron Sorkin novel or movie. I'm sorry. I still have West Wing in my head. All right, Sonny, thanks so much for jumping on and doing this. I appreciate it, bud.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

Absolutely.

[Sonny Bunch]

All right, take care, everyone. Hey, thank you for watching this, folks. This is a Bulwark Takes podcast. Subscribe to the feed subscribe to our YouTube channel. Subscribe to our substack we're everywhere. Talk to you.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

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[Sonny Bunch]

Make delivery.

[Adam Ren]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Unidentified Host or Guest]

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