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Bulwark Takes
BREAKING: Judge Denies Trump Request for Stay on Removing Name from Kennedy Center
00:26:10
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Julianne Moore. I learn a lot from every role, but some things stay with me more than others, like the impact of Alzheimer's disease. It's important to think about brain health now because there's so much we want to do. Acting early to protect brain health may help reduce the risk of dementia from conditions like Alzheimer's disease. Ask your doctor about your risk factors and for a cognitive assessment, learn more@brainhealthmatters.com
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B
this is a paid partnership with Lily.
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A
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- [01:17]
C
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Bulwark Takes. We got a very special live episode here. We've got, we've got Brendan is down at the Kennedy Center. We're trying to connect with him. But we've got here in studio, Bill Kristol, who has some, some breaking news updates about what may be happening with the, the name of the, the Kennedy center, which is of course, still just the John F. Kennedy Memorial center for the Performing Arts, whatever you see there on the front of the building. But the rest of that should be coming down here maybe momentarily. Bill, before, before we get to the meat of this, I just want to kind of set the stage here. You know, I get all the emails from the Kennedy Center. I get, you know, come ons for ticket sales. I get the press stuff and very pointed last, you know, several months to a year or so, it's been the Donald J. Trump John F. Kennedy center, right? Like, that's the logo, the Trump Kennedy Center. And like two weeks ago, that went away. That just stopped. That stopped being in the emails. And now we have just the reg. Just back to the, the Kennedy center logo. What's going on? What has changed and where do we stand on the name of the Kennedy Center?
- [02:24]
B
Late last year, as you know, the Trump appointed board decided that it should be the Donald Trump and John F. Kennedy Memorial Kennedy Center. Trump was pleased with this and they probably got to work changing everything from the emails to the website, as we can see, to what's on the front of the building there. Representative Joyce Beatty of Ohio brought a lawsuit, actually, quite courageously. I just want to say a word about her. I mean, others would not. She's on the board, she's ex officio. Various members of Congress are on the board of the Kennedy center, which otherwise is stacked by Trump appointees. The executive appointments, others didn't step up. And she stepped up and said, she said there were irregularities in the decision making. It's contrary to the law which says, the law that set it up in 64 says it shall be called the John F. Kennedy Center, Memorial center for the Performing Arts. She wrote a lawsuit. She went to a White House meeting by herself that wouldn't let her bring any staff, surrounded by top White House and administration officials and objected when they sort of formalized the act, which gave her standing to sue. So she sued. She wanted very strong opinion about a couple of weeks ago before those emails changed from Judge Cooper here at D.C. wrote a 90 plus page opinion saying, this is ridiculous. You have no legal status to do this. You didn't do it legally, you shouldn't do it in the first place. You didn't follow the right procedures anyway in doing it, remove the name within two weeks. So that's when you started getting the different emails. And the website looked different, but, and it looked like they were just going to comply. It was a very, I'm told, airtight opinion. I looked at it a bit myself and, you know, they, the Trump people do not have a good case. But two or three days ago, they reversed. They said, nope, we're going to ask for a stay, a halt in the removal of the name so we can appeal the actual substantive decision. The stay got turned down by Judge Cooper about an hour ago and now they're considering whether to appeal the stay so they can get it, you know, held up while they, you know, pending the resolution on the merits. I don't think they have a very good chance of winning that either. But you never know. D.C. circuit, you draw two strong Trumpy judges out of three for the panel. They could win that for a week, but I think either way, it's coming down. It could come down. And the deadline just in, the original decision two weeks ago is midnight tonight. So it should come down in the next few hours. That's why that they earlier this morning they built that scaffolding that we see, they had workmen, they're kind of expecting, I take it, that they would lose the, the appeal of this day. So it's been a nice little mini drama here and a nice vindication of the rule of law. Not to be too highfalutin about it, but it really is the case that Congress did. If they want to go to Congress and change the name of it, they could, they can do that, but they can't just do it arbitrarily.
- [05:08]
C
Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, this is the thing that drives me craziest about all this. Right. Is that there is a law, There's a law that says this is the name of the building and they just decided to go and change it. And they did it in the worst way. I mean, people can see. I just look at, look at, look at the spacing on those letters. It's not right. It's, Come on, It's, it's half assed. The. I can't wait to get Brendan on here in a second because he's been literally hanging out in his car in the early hours of the morning, stalking the building to see if these are going to be coming down. But let's. It does feel like something changed within the Trump White House in terms of their strategy here, right? It, like it looked like everything was just going to happen, and then all of a sudden it's like, wait, actually, they might fight this. Which is, which was kind of surprising.
- [05:53]
B
I feel like some Trump aide walked into the Oval, one of the more, you know, aggressive, sort of belligerent type aides who likes to stoke Trump up, and said, do you realize that we're not even fighting this bad court decision by this terrible appointee, Judge Cooper? And Trump said, God damn it, appeal it. You know, and so they, they sought the stay or at least seek us. Yeah, seek a. I don't think Trump said seek a stay. He doesn't know what that is. But they see, Trump said, stop it. He said, okay, we're going to try to get, we're going to try to get a stay. Now they've lost that. And I'm told by someone pretty close to the case that, I mean, if you're a serious person at the Justice Department, even semi serious in the Trump era, you don't want to be going to the D.C. circuit for things like this. You've got a lot of other issues there. You want to have goodwill from the judges. You don't want to make them, you know, have an emergency meeting on this kind of thing where you're going to, you don't have a good case. On the other hand, they probably don't want to get in a huge fight with Trump. You know what I mean? It's like the prudent thing is just to let it drop. And I think some people in justice have been counseling that and expecting it, really. But apparently in the last hour, you know, and I think people expected, therefore, when they lost the decision an hour ago, that would be it. But there was a delay. They wouldn't confirm that they would not appeal. That's why the workers are waiting. That's why the opposing counsel apparently is waiting to hear. There's been some rumors that someone from the Justice Department was seen walking into the D.C. circuit building downtown who might be literally physically bringing the, the, the paper for the appeal. So we don't, I don't know. I don't think. We don't know, but I think we'll know soon. It is a good. Yeah, I, I, you'd like to be the fly on the wall, right, for the moment that Trump finds out that his Justice Department and the moment Todd Blanche finds out that Trump is annoyed that his Justice Department, which Blanche is the obviously acting Attorney General of and nominated to be Attorney General that Trump is annoyed at him for. Why aren't you fighting for my, for me in this thing? This is an outrage. And suddenly they hop to it. They filed a ridiculous little. Which got slapped out immediately by Judge Cooper. But we'll see what happens on the appeal.
- [07:48]
C
All right, I think we've got Brendan. Brendan, can you, can you hear us all right? I can't, I can't. Did you hear, could you hear Brendan?
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B
Bill? No, no, that is Brendan, I can
- [08:01]
C
confirm that's, I can see him. I can see him, but I, I can't, I can't hear. We can't hear him yet. All right, well, let's, can I say
- [08:10]
B
I, I could tell maybe while friend is getting it to work.
- [08:12]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [08:13]
B
The story of Brenton, a colleague of ours in the Bulwark, you know, he's very interested in this. He drives across the river and sees the Kennedy Center. He's very outraged by it. And so there have been rumors over the last week of when this stuff was going to come down. As you said, Sonny, it looked like they weren't going to fight it, and they were just going to go ahead and do on the building what they had done on the website and in the promotional materials and so forth. And so various people have seen things online this could be the night they could do it. There are workmen seen around the Kennedy Center. I actually got a tip, whatever it's worth, two nights ago. This is, could be the night. It' getting very close to the deadline. They want to do it at the dead of night. Just Trump doesn't want to see anyone to see the name coming down. And so poor Brendan went out there and Shoela the reporting got in his car right by the Kennedy center, waited there to see if they were doing it. This was I guess 36 hours ago and they didn't do it. So I personally feel bad that I have deprived Brendan of his sleep and if his civilized sleeping accommodations. But he's doing. And now he's gone back out there today to see what's happening and maybe his phone is working. I don't know.
- [09:14]
C
Do we have you, Brendan? No, no, still not. These young people, you know, they, none of their things are. Can we. Bill, let's, let's talk about Trump's priorities here because they are kind of amazing. Like we are in a shooting war with Iran right now, basically. You know, there's, there's missiles going back and forth. You know, on top of everything. Like, it's just, it's just wild to me that this is the thing that they are most, they seem most focused on is, is, you know, the Kennedy center, the giant MMA ring on the lawn of the White House, you know, the, the ridiculous concert series. I like it. Just the priorities here, the reflecting pool, all that stuff. The priorities here seem out of whack.
- [10:02]
B
Yeah, well, he, I mean this is obviously Trump, Trump's narcissism and you know, megalomania have really kicked in in a such a big way. Not just in the second term in general, but I would say in the second year of the second term. Don't you think maybe since Venezuela, since he really was going to be. This is when he was going to be historic and maybe it was before Venezuela was the Kennedy thing was actually I think October or something like that. But anyway, he's, it's the renaming the building the arch, the, the insane mixed martial arts event Sunday night in the whitest the war. When he hears about. I wrote about it this morning in morning shots. I mean and then I didn't even realize, for example, the weigh ins for these mixed martial arts fighters are going to be at the Lincoln Memorial. I mean the whole thing is so grotesque. But this is, I mean this is Donald Trump, right? It's like, let's just turn the White House one of the Right wing influencers who was invited yesterday morning to a little briefing at the White House is covered very well by the New York Times reporter was really just thrilled. This is like Vegas, he said, looking at this monster claw thing, you know, that they brought in from Europe, incidentally, I thought, aren't we sort of America first here? This thing was built. Are you aware of this? You probably knew this side and you followed this stuff. I don't. This was built for a music festival, rock festival in the Netherlands, and it's been used a lot, actually, in Europe. I guess it's good for various. I don't even know for what. But this was, like, shipped over from Europe and all this, and some of it's being paid for by the fight, you know, organization.
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C
Right, right.
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B
But there are huge. Not huge, but substantial government taxpayer expenses here. Right. They've done a lot of the stuff is actually, it's a White House, and it is part of the 250th anniversary celebration, which is kind of disgusting, grotesque. It's also, of course, Trump's 80th birthday, which for him, I believe is more important probably than the 250th birthday of the declaration.
- [11:48]
C
Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a fair bet. The, no, the, the, the, the claw. The whole, the whole MMA thing is so fascinating just because it is so, it is so grotesquely over the top, and it gives, it gives the Trumpy supporters a chance to be like, what, you don't like cool things? You don't like cool spectacle? Bill, why are you such a stick in the mud here? And then you look at it and you're like, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life. Why is this happening on the White House lawn? What are we doing here? What are we, what are we doing here with all this ridiculous nonsense and
- [12:20]
B
creating a genuine security. You know, it's not so easy. 4,500 people at the White House, they got, apparently the MFA, the mixed martial arts guys, the. What's the name of the organization on Black and United.
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C
There's a UFC. It's the U.S. yeah, yeah.
- [12:35]
B
Ultimate Fighting. Yeah. The UFC guys are sort of in charge of the invites, but then, of course, the White House and Secret Service have to sign off on them. It's just been a total, you know, waste of money and of effort all around. And they're just. Yeah, and you're right. This is the, this is the focus of what they're, what they're doing. But, but for Trump, it's Yeah, it's his, his birthday and it's the 250th anniversary. And the idea that this is, I mean, and of course, no Republican, to my knowledge, has criticized it, actually.
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C
Yeah, well, no, of course, you couldn't possibly criticize this. This would be, you know, it would be a big death penalty in, you know, maybe John Cornyn can finally come out and say something like, this is really stupid. You know, now that he's found his bravery, having been bounced from the Texas primary here. Here in Texas, you know, there is, there's just like an ongoing series of disasters at the Kennedy center, though. Like, just today, like an hour ago, it was announced that the Washington National Opera is suing to force the Kennedy center to pay back like $17 million or some, some insane amount of money that has not been paid over the years. You know, the fundraising was a disaster. I had a guy on who wrote a piece for the Atlantic a couple months back talking about the ridiculous fundraising strategies that they were doing there. But it, but it does all. It does come back to, like, basic graft and, you know, sucking up to Donald. Like, they just want people to come say nice things to Donald Trump and give them money and then get a little bit of face time. And that is, that is not, that's no way to run an arts organization, maybe, but it's certainly no way to run a country.
- [14:15]
B
Of course, they've unfortunately found so many people who see that it's in their interest, their business's interest to suck up to Donald Trump and send a check to whatever, the ballroom, this, this thing, anything else. But they have, I mean, people. So we've gone for many, many years to the Kennedy center. Not that often, but to the opera mostly, but that's three, four, five times a year. And then there's a chamber music series. We're like. And we had tickets for this year, six, seven, eight tickets total. You know, sets of two tickets. And we stopped going when they put the name up there in November. And so we missed a couple of concerts this fall, this spring. And I think a lot of people stopped going. And some, Nettie tried to get their money back. But yeah, the theft from the Washington parent theft from the Washington National Operas really is really something. Right? I mean, you know, one makes grant. What can make grants? These are performing organizations that are their own legal entities. They use the Kennedy Center. They. And they pay for the space there. Or there's some deal, it's worked out where the Kennedy center is happy to have them and they're happy to use it and so forth. And they pay for some things and Kennedy center pays for others. But these, you know, I know this is, were very minor donors to the Washington National Opera. And so we give them money, we don't give money to the Kennedy center that they've got other sources of revenue. And then they're just stealing like the money of the wno, which is not performing at the Kennedy center next year because they've already scheduled performances at other venues here in Washington. So the amount of grift, as you say, and just kind of the narcissism, the megalomania, the corruption, I'd say that on the, don't you think on the, on the, on the Sunday night thing at the White House there, the corruption is really just obvious. I mean, you know, this, this is, it's a commercial event. The White House is being treated like the ballroom of a hotel which you rent for a wedding or for a reception or for a dinner, which is fine. That's. The hotel is a commercial property. And if Hyatt wants to say, you know, if you want to, they want to rent their ballroom to these guys, that's fine. The south lawn of the White House is not supposed to be that, but that's what it is. And there are advertisements on the ring there. You know, it's really.
- [16:09]
C
And of course there's, there's a, there's a secondary angle here, which is that UFC is in bed with Paramount, cbs, Viacom, that whole conglomerate like this will be broadcast on, you know, the Ellison owned streaming outfit, which of course is its own thing because there's the merger with Warner brothers and the FCC fight and you know, 60 minutes and all that stuff. But it's just another, like this, this, this entangled, enmeshed corruption is getting out of hand.
- [16:38]
B
It is out of hand, but, you know, and it can screw up sometimes. They're going to lose this case, I believe. But it's also, it's dangerous though, you know what I mean? I mean, as we see with the CBS Ellison now CNN type thing, and in that respect, the corruption is, is both ridiculous but ominous. All right, sounds like we have noise. Do we have noise from the Kennedy Center?
- [16:59]
C
I can hear Brandon. Brandon, what's going on down there?
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D
Hey, guys, sorry for all the technical issues.
- [17:06]
C
So there, right now there's actually a
- [17:08]
D
decent number of people, I'll flip around the camera who've shown up and
- [17:15]
C
we're
- [17:15]
D
doing a little chant screaming, take it down. There hasn't been any new movement. Obviously, you Guys have one of the cameras over there, but yeah, there's a little bit of Cheers. I don't know any Bulwark fans. Great. Fortunately not, but there's Jonathan Karl. Yeah.
- [17:34]
B
Brendan, we've told the story of your travails over the last few days, but if you want to confide in some of our viewers of what was it like to sleep in the car right outside the Kennedy center there in the 92 degree Washington.
- [17:45]
D
Honestly, it wasn't that bad. Oh, we might have. We have some movement, actually.
- [17:51]
C
Oh, I hear. I hear somebody backing up. I hear some.
- [17:53]
D
Yeah, there's a lot of people coming out now.
- [17:56]
B
Well, we'll see if they've. Maybe they've decided not to appeal. I haven't heard from my lawyer friend, but we'll see. Yeah.
- [18:01]
C
Are they gonna strike the scaffolding? Well, Brendan, while we're figuring out what they're doing here, tell us about sleeping in your car in the hopes of catching the first glimpse of this thing coming down, because this is. I love it. It's old fashioned shoe leather, stakeout reporting.
- [18:20]
D
Yeah. So I learned. Fun fact, which is that you can sleep in a Prius pretty easily. It wasn't that bad. I was. Those cars over here are real troopers. They've been here since almost 36 hours ago. I don't know if anybody has moved, but I was over. Just back there, spent the night. No avail, but. Yeah. Not sure what's happening now, but. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't terrible. Bill Crystal never leads me astray, but I was just. I wasn't. I was just early, let's just say.
- [18:50]
B
Yeah, I owe. I owe Brendan maybe like, at least a cup of coffee and a nice pastry at the Tate in the basement downstairs in our building. Or maybe even a real drink. Maybe a real drink, you know?
- [19:00]
C
No, Bill, he owes you a nice dinner for this great tip that you gave him. You know, this is. This. That's how you're supposed to treat your sources. So don't. Don't.
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B
All right. What are we doing?
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C
They're just walking by. It doesn't look like they're. Yeah,
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B
Yeah.
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D
I think it might have been a false alarm because they've passed it now.
- [19:22]
B
But, I mean, it's hard to tell which way we go. Certainly if they. If they are milling around, it could mean that they've gotten the signal, there won't be an appeal and they should take it down. It could mean that they've gotten the signal that there will be an appeal and they shouldn't do anything at least for a few hours until the appeal is denied if it is for the stay at the circuit level. So anyway, we'll keep an eye on that. Right. Sonny and Brendan, we should definitely keep,
- [19:44]
C
I still think we should do, you know, the roaming bus tour of the names being taken down on all the buildings that should be, we could do that as a fundraiser. I think people would, think people would enjoy that. Yeah. It looks like they walked right by it. That's too bad. Bill. You know, one thing just, I don't know if we're going to wrap things up here, but the, the, the thing that actually I was a little bit surprised by was the Trump administration maybe deciding to fight this because remember like a few, a few weeks ago, Donald Trump posted the longest truth social post I've ever seen. I mean it was like it was this long on my, on my screen and he was, you know, he was just ranting based on the fact that the radical left Democrats care more about opposing your favorite president, me than saving a dying performing arts center, almost all of which lose large amounts of money throughout the country. We are going to be working with Congress to transfer this failing institution back to them so they can make a determination as to what to do with it. I mean it's, it's, it did sound kind of like he was washing his hands of it. And then there's this reversal. I just, I like I, I something I look, he's a mercurial person. I don't, I would never hope to predict what he was going to do, but it does. It just seemed like such a weird backtrack.
- [21:06]
B
That's a good point because that was when I figured, okay, he'll blame Congress. He'll throw the ball into Congress's lap and he'll blame Congress. You could have had a great center here in Washington, but you didn't let me build it. And so now it's just falling. He would claim falling apart. It wasn't falling apart incidentally. It's and parts of it have been renovated. They all idea that this thing couldn't we missed for two years, 15 years ago maybe the opera performed elsewhere because they were renovating the opera hall and updating it. I mean it's not like this place hasn't been run. I don't know if it's run brilliantly well but it's been run competently. People show up. There's a lot of different music and other things there performances there. You know, not just classical music anyway, the, yeah, this but his he seemed like he was going to wash his hands of it and blame others, and then something happened to make him feel. No, I'm fighting it. Well, you know, as you say, it's kind of a cure. Maybe you've noticed with Iran, he kind of goes back and forth between he's going to bomb into the Stone Age or we're two seconds away from an agreement. So that's kind of like he, maybe he's. He took this pattern to the Kennedy center as well.
- [22:02]
C
Yeah, let's see. Brendan, can we, can we. I feel like we need to go back to the beginning of this almost, because this does start with a ridiculous board. The Kennedy center board itself is, has been like, stacked with these kind of Trump apparatchiks, the trustees, et cetera. Can you, can you just talk a little bit about what they have been doing here in the, in the, I don't know, the last year or so while all of this has been unfolding?
- [22:36]
D
Yeah, it's a good question. So, I mean, obviously they've given Trump multiple honorary positions, including chairman of the board. I believe that the representative filed the case to get his name stripped off of here, said that in contrast to what was initially reported, that vote was not unanimous. Apparently, on the zoom call, she was muted. They've been doing a lot of, you know, dumb games and stuff. I think they also just that they're around the same. Just yesterday passed some resolution honoring all of Trump's, you know, great contributions to the arts over the years. So it's just, it seems to be a lot of kayfabe, a lot of brown nosing and really just trying to curry favor. It's also just a really interesting crew. I think the fact that, like, Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff, was over here at some point yesterday doing some meeting about some petty vanity project when we're, you know, in the middle of these Iran negotiations and really, like, having intensifying of conflict. Like, it just seems like all such a farce. They've about. In February, Trump said that they were going to close the Kennedy center for, for, I think two years for renovations. I believe he has a lot of issues with the chair armrests in the Kennedy Center. I forget if I think his issue is that they're not marble, but maybe it might be. Someone would have to fact check, but it might be that they are marble. I. But, yeah, he wants to make them marble.
- [23:59]
B
Yeah, they're not marble.
- [24:00]
C
Can you imagine?
- [24:01]
B
I've used those armrests. I've used those armrests. You don't really want marble armrests.
- [24:04]
C
Can you imagine anything more comfortable than a marble armrest? I'm sitting here on my work chair right now, just like, man, I wish this was hard marble that I had my elbows on. That would be really great.
- [24:13]
B
You know what? Just on this one thing, if I got to go in a second, Representative Beatty, I'd mentioned earlier, I sort of shoot. She hasn't gotten quite enough credit. People sort of read about this and I do too. We all do. And yet go. There's a court case, you know, and he wins or he loses or whatever. But these court cases have to be brought by someone. You have to get representation. In this case, they've got the Washington Litigation Group and others, others helping out on a, you know, a free basis on a, you know, they're not charging for it. But Representative Beatty was told, you know, do you really want to do this? You're a 75 year old respected member of Congress. You know, you do need this aggravation. Do you need to go to the White House and object so you'll have standing? Do you need to get death threats and all the other crap you're going to get for all the Trump supporters? And she just said, look, this is wrong, this is right. It's not like, and she's not a, you know, this is an obsession of hers. You wouldn't, you know, she's not like an arts pioneer in Congress. I think she's doing a good job by being on this board. And she just thinks, and she's in Ohio, it sounds like she comes here that much, probably, but she, to the Kennedy center, to my knowledge. But she just did the right thing. And I really, I really think it's a good little instance of how, you know, we read about these things and people kind of assume these court cases magically appear, but it requires someone to, it requires good lawyers to find someone who will have standing. It good. It requires a little effort to make sure you have standing. Like her going to this White House meeting where she was all alone. They wouldn't even let her bring one staffer or anyone like that. And then it requires good lawyers to represent people like this and not, not charge or not charge much. So it's, it's a nice story, assuming it holds up here for the next few hours. It's a nice story of David and Goliath, sort of.
- [25:55]
C
Yeah. Brendan, before we head out, any parting thoughts there from what it just, what's the, what's the mood like here as we, as we kind of shut things down.
- [26:05]
D
Yeah, I mean, it definitely. It feels kind of like a no Kings protest. Obviously way smaller in size, but there's a good crowd over here. And on the other side of, you know, people, I think, are really excited to see his name be chiseled off of there. And. Yeah, I mean, it just seems fun. A couple of people in some interesting costumes. I think there's a somebody dressed as Barney down the street, but, yeah, I think it'll be a celebration. I was very much under the impression that we'd have to wait until 2029 for this. So it's fun that, you know, maybe we'll get a little bit of. We'll get a little bit of a preview of what's to come, you know, now, as opposed to having to wait another two and a half years.
- [26:42]
C
Very. Three cheers for very small wins. We'll take it. All right, well, everybody, thanks for. Thanks for watching. I. It's too bad we couldn't get this to come down while we. While we were here on the air, but, you know, we're. Brendan is going to stay there. Brendan, you're gonna stay there until that comes down, right? We're gonna. We'll. We'll Uber. We'll Uber eats you out meals and the such. And, you know, you can just. You can just live from your Prius. Hopefully the cops don't. Don't roust you. You know, drive around, find different parking spots, but just make sure you can see it. So that's. That'll be great. Thanks for everybody. Thanks to everybody for listening, watching. Make sure you hit, like, and subscribe. Share this with your friends. And this is. It's just been fun to hang out and kind of. Kind of talk about this. So, uh, I hope. Hope you all had fun.