Jonathan Last (3:12)

I mean, it looks to be between seven and nine agents.

Tim Miller (3:17)

It is.

Jonathan Last (3:17)

I mean, I guess we're hearing that they are cpb, but you know, nobody knows who they are.

Tim Miller (3:23)

It's kind of the same. I'm using ISIS sort of shorthand at this point for icb, right?

Jonathan Last (3:26)

Dhs. Yeah, yeah, dhs, one of the DHS agencies. And you, you see on the left hand side of the screen somebody, one of them pistol whipping the, the guy in the head, which again, I'm not sure that you're supposed to, if you are an armed agent of the state, be using your weapon as a blunt object. Right. I mean you're not supposed to draw your weapon until you're ready to, to shoot. Right. And you shouldn't be shooting in a scrum because you've got all these arms and legs right there. I mean that, like this looks like a cartel street execution. That, that's what this looks like. It, it looks like what you would expect from a disorganized group of thugs beating somebody on the street and then executing them, not like actual law enforcement professionals doing a job. It should not take seven to nine guys heavily tacked out to subdue somebody if, if he was even in need of subduing. And you know, I, Minneapolis allows you to carry. And so if, if this guy was carrying a gun, which again we'll see, they, they you can open carry and you can conceal carry with a permit in Minneapolis, in Minnesota. And like, this is why, this is why the second amendment exists, right? It exists for, for exactly situations like this, which is something that every conservative in America would have told you until 10 years ago.

Tim Miller (5:10)

Yeah, I want to get into that and have a deeper conversation about that in a second. Just, just. There's a few more things really quick just on the facts here. I mean, we don't know at this point what preceded that scrum. Right, so we'll wait and see. It does look like there are some other cameras on the scene and you see a woman also taking a video from the other side. So I assume we'll be getting other vantage points just as we did with the Renee Goode killing. I want to pull up this one image. It's like, this is a still, because I know it's kind of hard for people to see there, you know, what's happening. All these guys are kind of dressed the same, but you see the guy in the red circle on the. On the left side of the screen. And at this point, all of the agents have backed up. The victim is lying on the ground, and he is still. Gun drawn, firing. Yeah, Like, I just, you know, I don't know how you can look at that and think, who cares what happened before? It's sort of one of these things, right? Like, you know, who knows, like, what this guy was doing or why they were, you know, potentially feeling like they were. That this was required to have nine guys tear this guy down. But, like, at this point, obviously, nobody is at risk. Multiple gunshots have been fired, and this dude is still emptying his clip on the left side. One other thing I just want to mention about the kind of. The facts of what we know now is that local Minnesota police went to secure the scene. The DHS officials tried to push them away and kind of. Do you know what you see in the movies? Like, this is a federal scene. This is FBI.

Jonathan Last (6:44)

I'm Agent Johnson. I'm Agent Johnson.

Tim Miller (6:46)

Right. Yeah, exactly. Doing matchtick and good on the Minnesota local police. Police chief announced that he said, no, we are going to secure the scene. Some of the ICE agents, though, did leave, flee the scene and their cars. So, you know, which is, you know, again, not a cop. But don't believe that standard operating procedure, when there is.

Jonathan Last (7:04)

Does seem to be standard operating procedure in Minnesota for the DHS agents. Right. This is. This is now the third time they've fled the scene of a shooting.

Tim Miller (7:11)

Yeah. And you see one of the guys walking away there, like, pulling his mask up. I'm sorry to laugh. It's just so fucking macabre. Like, pulling his mask up higher, you know, he's like, I know what just happened. I see that people are videoing and, like, he pulls his mask up even higher on his face as they. As they. As they flee the scene.

Jonathan Last (7:31)

Yeah. Protesters then started showing up, people converging on the scene, and reports of flashbangs being deployed and gas. I mean, the video from the scene itself is astonishing. That this is America.

Tim Miller (7:46)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (7:47)

And I'm trying to sort of keep it all inside right now, but the level of incandescent rage I'm feeling and is tempered only by my unbelievable admiration for the people of Minnesota. Who have been out and organizing, not just like giving up their time, but at tremendous personal risk to their lives and should shame every David Ellison and Jeff Bezos and rich person in America who, you know, Tim Cook showing up with his golden apple. People who have absolutely nothing to lose because nobody can ever touch them. And they knuckled under where just normal people in Minneapolis are putting their livelihoods, their bodies, their lives on the line to try to stop this descent into authoritarianism. And it's tremendous heroism.

Tim Miller (8:59)

It is. And to that point, so we now are live on the scene here. After the shoot, after they killed somebody, the agents fired off tear gas to try to disperse the protests that were gathering there. It does not appear that that is going to be successful. You see the agents there in gas masks as they menace the peaceful protesters who are coming to the scene. And you know, the tear gas has dissipated a little bit in this video. About 20 minutes ago, you know, I was watching the stream and it seriously looked like Fallujah the level. And you saw just these regular citizens kind of walking through the scene, you know, having to cover their face as they're just trying to express their first amendment right. Minnesota Star Tribune. I just want to mention, has also said ICE has transported several witnesses into detention.

Jonathan Last (9:54)

So totally normal thing to do. Not something that repressive regimes do. I mean, this is, again, I'm, I am sorry to, to both interrupt and belabor the point, but this is what you would have expect in Rodrigo Duterte's Philippines. It's what you would have expected in like, you know, the Stasi East Germany. It's what you'd expect frankly, in Hong Kong right now from the Chinese regime. Right. And not to mention like, you know, I'm sorry we have to make the historical parallel, but like, you know, late 1930s Germany, like this is, this is happening and it's real. And I, I, I, I'm sorry, Tim, I'm just going to keep filibustering here. This is, there is this thing going on in America where people are like, yeah, it's bad, but don't, don't get carried away. It's not real fascism. Not yet. And like, it isn't for me. You know, I'm, I'm living in New York City, you know, things are fine basically here, but this is sure as shit real fascism in Minneapolis. Like real deal actual. Might as well be East Germany following the Cold War fascism. And it's happening and it's, it's fucking real and it's spectacular and it's going on right now. And the idea that like, well, it's not, not in my neighborhood. So that makes it not real. That's not how these things work. The curtain doesn't always descend all same time everywhere. Right. It comes down in pockets. And the inability of people in America to understand that it's a big country and that their, their experience is not universal is one of our great liabilities here. Because this is happening.

Tim Miller (11:35)

We have a press conference coming here in about five minutes. Well, that's when it's scheduled. We'll see. We'll take you to it when, when we get there. Our friend Chris Ostrushko, Minnesota angry guy, is on the scene as well. We might be grabbing him when we get the chance. And in the meantime, I want to discuss kind of the response here from government officials and from what local officials might be considering in Minnesota. There have been two conversations I've had on the podcast recently that have been pretty striking. One is when I had met Mayor Fry on who I think we'll be hearing from soon. And he basically said we're considering all our options as far as whether we should have our local officials arrest federal officials and basically not basically bluntly said that the only thing preventing him from doing that is that they have more guns and there's concerns about escalation. I do wonder how long that calculus remains the same. Governor Walz, you're already seeing a lot of people say that he should call in the National Guard. That also bears some risks. Right, because Trump could then federalize the National Guard and then you have some kind of standoff on yesterday's pod. Mike Murphy, who is a pretty norms abiding Republican, which is I think why it's interesting that he offered this quote. I'm just gonna pull up the quote or myself. I was gonna read the quote. He said, I'm pulling for guns or excuse me, I'm for pulling guns, I'm for settling this. I mean that's pretty extreme. But they're scooping up American citizens like the Gestapo. So yeah, we have a Minnesota State Patrol. I'm not for a gunfight, but I'm for maxing out municipal and state of Minnesota power to stop this. I'm just not shy about this. When American Gestapo is out of control. I just thought that was a pretty. Some of the commenters yesterday said that I looked shocked by that. And it was mostly that I looked shocked coming from Mike Murphy. Right. Like that is where we're at right now, that there are some pretty level headed, reasonable people saying What Governor Walz and Mayor Fry should be doing right now is basically escalating this to a, to, to a constitutional crisis between federal officials and local officials and, and local law enforcement versus federal law enforcement. I wonder how you think they should be thinking about that at this point.

Jonathan Last (13:46)

You know, I really, it's hard. You could see it going very bad.

Tim Miller (13:52)

Right.

Jonathan Last (13:52)

And I, you know, I, I am basically an accelerationist because I feel like the slow slide has made this slide more possible where, you know, again, if you just like jump back to January 6th. Well, maybe, maybe if January 6th had gone really sideways, maybe if a bunch of legislators had been killed, maybe if the Capitol Police had opened fire and killed a few hundred of the, the insurrectionists, maybe people would not have been so willing to be like, yeah, you know, let's do Trump again. So I, but accelerationism has risks. It has real risks. And I mean, I don't, I don't want to say civil war, because I don't think civil war is possible. But this, I mean, we are engaged in a low grade civil conflict. Like, that's, that's just the reality of what this is. And we eating the federal government against state governments and in, in ways that we really haven't seen since the civil rights era. Except this time the federal government are the baddies. And, and, but you know, it's. Look, this is what all of us were freaked out about when it started with, you know, deploying the, the National Guard into Southern California and then into D.C. and then the huge ice escalations in Chicago. It sure looks to me. You tell me what you think, Tim. Yeah, like the federal government wants to provoke an armed conflict between it and the states.

Tim Miller (15:34)

Yeah, I mean, I, I think that they're interested in it. I'm not sure that's exactly what happened in this case. And I think that their response will be different, you know, because I do think there are two things that are happening here. One, I think you have some malicious people, particularly Stephen Miller and the Vice President, who do want escalation so they can crack down more. I also think we have a lot of morons and Dean Cain types out on the street here who have no idea what the fuck they're doing. And so I don't want to get inside the mind of this ICE agent and be like, this guy was trying to escalate to revolutionary war. He just might be a fucking idiot and a coward. And so I don't want to leave open the option for that. I want to pull up just this kind of a Zoomed in screenshot here because I do think this is also important. It appears that this agent has disarmed him. There's one of these agents has pulls out a gun. It's kind of hard to see depending on how close you are to the screen here, but you can see the gun come out here. Which, which again maybe the guy had two weapons. I don't know the government saying that he had one weapon and two magazines. But you know, to. It's not even defensible to shoot a guy on the ground 10 times even if he did had a weapon. But I do think it's an interesting and noteworthy that it appears that they had already pulled the weapon out before this guy started unloading his clip on him. I do want to talk about the second amendment side of this, unless you have something on that.

Jonathan Last (17:04)

Well, I want to ask you about this. And this will lead into the second amendment side. Do you think that people who are protesting should be armed? Because one of the things that I have, I have noticed through the years is that when people who are out protesting in force are obviously and clearly armed, the federal government tends to treat them with much more kid job. I'm thinking about like Cliven Bundy, remember the, the ranchers out in, I think it was Montana. Right. Who are like staking out federal lands with all their guns. And you know, the, the feds decided to resolve that with court orders and not beat downs and public executions. On the other hand, history does suggest that peaceful protests are the way to wind up levering power against oppressive regimes.

Tim Miller (18:02)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (18:03)

And so I don't know what the. I, I don't know. I'm just curious what your thoughts are like. You know, should people in Minnesota who have firearms at home, who have, you know, open carry or concealed carry permits when they go out, should they be armed and obviously armed?

Tim Miller (18:18)

I don't think I'm a no on that. But, but I'm kind of a. I'm a wimp. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a gun person in general. And this does lead you. And I think that, that the peaceful protests I do think are very important as far as carrying weight, carrying political weight, as far as getting pushback against this regime. Because while I think probably we've done this a million times, probably some percentage of the MAGA base wants civil war and insurrection, there's another portion that doesn't. And winning those people over I think is an important part of the political objective. But look, people have the right to carry their guns you look at these.

Jonathan Last (18:58)

Guys on the screen, Tim, it's fucking pathetic. You look at these guys with their hoodies and they're covering their uniforms, covering their faces like a bunch of cosplayers invading Minneapolis.

Tim Miller (19:12)

So I don't, you know, I haven't looked at the murder rates in the last week since I talked to the mayor. But when the mayor was on eight days ago, he said to me, there's been two shootings, deadly shootings in Minneapolis, St. Paul since the beginning of the year. One by the ICE agent killing Renee Goode and one by one other person. So now we've got two on the ICE ledger of this. Like, the idea that you need these guys to invade the city right now is preposterous from the start. And that's why I sort of reject. So I kind of, I hate the like, oh, you know what if the guy was resisting? It's kind of like these guys shouldn't have been there. There shouldn't have been nine mass thugs going after this guy no matter what happened. And we're going to keep, you know, keep our eye out for additional video so that we know exactly what happened. But at some level it doesn't matter because this is totally unnecessary. This is an invasion of the city of Minneapolis and people have a right to want to push back. And this is where, I don't know, we'll see over the next 24 hours. But I don't bet that any of these smooth brained second amendment hardliners, NRA types are going to be coming out in the next 24 hours and saying, you know what? This is exactly what we need. People with weapons shooting at a tyrannical government. And so like that, that whole argument that these fucking assholes have been like thrusting on us, like we have to accept the deaths of children in our schools just in case the government ever impinges on my rights. I want to be, I want to be armed so that I can push back against them. Well, here's the government impinging on people's rights in a city and breaking the law and being authoritarian and, and as soon as these fucking jackbooted thugs kill somebody in the city, the first thing that the second amendment crowd does is they're like, oh, let's leak the fox that he had a weapon. You know, he can't have. Well, probably this is, this.

Jonathan Last (20:55)

I mean, it's ancient history. Nobody remembers the name Philandra Castile. But you know, some years ago we had a case where there was a guy named Flander Castile. I believe he was stopped by the cops. He was carrying a weapon. He informed he was. He was legally entitled to. He informed the officer that he was armed, you know, at the time of the stops. There would be no surprise. And Flandrick Castile wound up getting shot dead. And the NRA said jack shit about it.

Tim Miller (21:24)

Yeah, exactly. We have a couple more angles that we're vetting right now of this fledge.

Jonathan Last (21:30)

Castile was not white though, so maybe that's why, you know.

Tim Miller (21:33)

Yeah, we'll see. I mean, it doesn't count, you know, you don't have second amendment rights if you're not white or, you know, if you're a lesbian or if you're kind of a liberal, a libtard. We're vetting a couple more angles of this and so we'll take you to that once we get it. We'll take you to the press conference once that begins.

Jonathan Last (21:51)

Look at this video, Tim.

Tim Miller (21:53)

Well, I want to show you. We have another video. This was what I was referencing earlier. It's about 20 minutes ago. And this is from our friends at Ms. Now. And there's this guy on the street in Minneapolis and I, I honestly almost started crying watching this. So I, I just want to show it to people just to give you a really close up view of what we're. Of what's happening right now on the ground at South Minneapolis. Let's pull that up.

Jonathan Last (22:15)

You.

Tim Miller (22:18)

Stop. Look out. Damn.

Jonathan Last (22:27)

Just chill, okay?

Tim Miller (22:30)

I'm fine. I didn't breathe anything and I'm just angry. I'm 70 years old angry. Oh, off.

Jonathan Last (22:49)

I think I'll need it, but we'll try it.

Tim Miller (23:02)

And just unbelievable. Like for what?

Jonathan Last (23:05)

Donald Trump's America for what?

Tim Miller (23:08)

Right? And this is a guy that is, you know, one of these Minnesota sweet Scandinavian types that has been brought to this. He's out in the street, smoke bombs everywhere. They're trying to disperse people that are. That are trying to express their first amendment rights to protest in this country after they killed somebody. Like these fuckers come into Minneapolis and they kill a second person and now they're attacking the citizens for expressing their rights. Like, this is what the. This is what the don't tread on.

Jonathan Last (23:41)

Me crowd wants any again, I important to remember that after Renee Goode was. Was murdered, DHS decided to send more people to Minneapolis. So this is again, I mean, it is an escalation on top of an escalation. And I don't know what, you know, I. They knew what was going to happen. You put this many armed in the streets with total immunity and no real mission. And the idea is just go beat on people. Like, of course they knew this was going to happen.

Tim Miller (24:21)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (24:21)

And this is why I said like, I sure. The, the idiot who, who just like gets off on shooting somebody may not be thinking of civil war, but Kristi Nell and Corey Lewandowski and Stephen Miller and J.D. vance, like, they, they understand the powder keg they're building.

Tim Miller (24:40)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (24:41)

And the question is like, well, why do you think they're doing it?

Tim Miller (24:43)

Yeah. I mean JD understands that JD was in the city, whatever yesterday or two days ago. Times a flat circle right now, but like just lying about local. Attacking local law enforcement, calling them liars. Like there was a press conference of local law enforcement where they said their off duty cops were being racially targeted and harassed by federal agents. And J.D. vance said that they're lying. So I mean, he's trying to escalate. He wasn't trying to create.

Jonathan Last (25:05)

Which is, by the way, amazing that the people who say law enforcement never do anything wrong. You always have to trust law enforcement. Absolutely. Then when it is convenient to them, say, well, not that law enforcement.

Tim Miller (25:16)

Yeah, they're lying.

Jonathan Last (25:16)

Those guys are liars.

Tim Miller (25:17)

That's the woke. That's the woke cop I want to talk about. We've talked about the state response and again for everybody who's watching this, if we get a press conference out of Minneapolis to expect, we'll go to that. But the federal, there's a real federal response. Seven Democrats took a really fucking bad vote last week, by the way, to move this budget forward as if it's normal time, including a couple who I've been fans of in the past, like Marie Guzen, Clan Perez and I don't know what the fuck they were thinking, but basically they worked with the Republicans to pass the DHS budget, but that has to go through the Senate. Insanity. If they took that vote. Total insanity. And honestly just unacceptable. It's like kind of doesn't even matter what they're for.

Jonathan Last (25:58)

Should end their.

Tim Miller (26:00)

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. And, but this goes to the Senate now. And there are two elements of this politically that I think are worth talking about. One is what do the 47 Democrats do? You know, you can go to old school. You mentioned this. This is civil rights era time. We can go to where the, you know, you can go to old school civil rights era type filibusters, you know, where you try to block this and you know, do whatever it takes to kill time and to use your leverage, legislative leverage, to Block this. The other thing that I think is worth noting here is Susan Collins is the chair of the Appropriations Committee. This has to go through. She's up for re election this year as a Republican moderate. And this shit that's happening in Minneapolis is happening in a smaller scale right now in Maine. I did an interview with a guy who was on the ground yesterday talking about the way that the federal agents have been menacing people in Maine, excuse me, because they also have a Somali community there. Huge, huge concerns about illegal immigration in Maine, by the way, the whitest state in the country. You know, the Fentanyls coming in through Greenland, down through Nova Scotia into Maine, I think is what they're, what they're concerned about there. But I mean, talking about career ending, I would hope, I would hope if Susan Collins pushes this through, given what is happening on the streets. I just.

Jonathan Last (27:22)

Put out a statement of concern.

Tim Miller (27:23)

What do you think, what do you think about Susan Collins or about what the Democrats or what we had to see next week? Because look, the Democrats have been at some level saying the right thing about this, but they haven't been incandescent with rage with a few examples. Chris, Chris Murphy, you should shout out, was in San Antonio at the ICE facility. But they haven't, they haven't wanted to pick this fight really. You know, they wanted to pick the fight over health care last year, which ended up being strategically right, I think. But they haven't wanted to pick this fight. Two killings in Minneapolis. I think that, I think that the fight has been thrust upon them whether they want to pick it or not, I guess.

Jonathan Last (27:57)

I mean, if Amy Klobuchar wants to be the governor of Minnesota, then it seems to me that she should not allow this vote to move forward in the Senate. Right. And she has to filibuster herself. She should do it, but I don't think she'd have to do it herself. I think she could probably get quite an few colleagues to work with it. And the question is like, so what should the asks be? And I think the ask should probably be around the conduct of DHS agents. And so it should be, can't wear masks. We are going to redraw the lines of their immunity and you know, establish there is criminal liability for their actions, etc. Etc. And must be identified and then probably establish some limits on the ways in which they can be deployed. Because again, the scale of it is, is the thing, right? If you, if you put 100 ICE agents in Minneapolis, like that's one thing they can go around Doing their thing. But they are also then subject to oversight by local law enforcement because of, as you said, with Mayor Fry, with your conversation with him, the whole point of the scale is to make them immune to local law enforcement because they have too many guns.

Tim Miller (29:29)

Yeah, that's right. I have two things here I just want to say, since you shout out Amy Klobuchar. Here's her statement so far. She said there's been another shooting involving federal agents in Minneapolis. I'm working to get more information. I'll update as soon as possible to the Trump administration, the Republicans in Congress who have stood silent. Get ICE out of our state now. Hopefully, that's on the right direction. We do have another angle, another video of this, of this shooting that I want to pull up. Pull up now. I haven't actually seen this. So this is. We're going to be watching this live together.

Jonathan Last (30:09)

Yeah.

Tim Miller (30:09)

Unroll your windows. Okay, so I guess that's before the shooting, what we have there. And that's the guy that they were rolling up on, so it doesn't seem like he was shooting, pointing his gun at them, but we'll find out. I think Mayor Fry is live, so let's go to that. We'll stick around with you guys.

Chief Brian O'Hara (30:47)

We have been. We have not been told any official reports of what has led up to the shooting, but we have seen the video that is circulating on social media. Our demand today is for those federal agencies that are operating in our city to do so with the same discipline, humanity, and integrity that effective law enforcement in this country demands. We urge everyone to remain peaceful. We recognize that there is a lot of anger and a lot of questions around what has happened, but we need people to remain peaceful in the area. We have an unlawful assembly at this time. Minneapolis police have given multiple warnings for the crowd to disperse. We are asking for people to avoid the area and to leave if you are there. We have requested mutual aid from the Minnesota State Patrol and from all our local and county regional partners. We ask everyone to remain calm and to please do not destroy our own city.

Mayor Jacob Frey (32:04)

I just saw a video of more than six masked agents pummeling one of our constituents and shooting him to death? How many more residents. How many more Americans need to die or get badly hurt for this operation to end? How many more lives need to be lost before this administration realizes that a political and partisan narrative is not as important as American values? How many times must local and national leaders must plead with you, Donald Trump, to end this operation and recognize that this is not creating safety in our city, as you'll hear from Director Sayre in just a second, we have seen these kinds of operations in other places, in other countries, but not here in America. Not in a way where a great American city is being invaded by its own federal government. I'm done being told that our community members are responsible for the vitriol in our streets. I'm done being told that our local elected officials are solely responsible for turning down the temperature. Just Yesterday, we saw 15,000 people peacefully protesting in the streets, speaking out, standing up for their neighbors. Not a single broken window, not a single injury. Those peaceful protests embody the very principles that both Minneapolis and America was founded upon. Conversely, the mass militarized force and unidentified agents who are occupying our streets. That is what weakens our country. That is what erodes trust in both law enforcement and in democracy itself. So to everyone listening, stand with Minneapolis. Stand up for America. Recognize that your children will ask you what side you were on. Your grandchildren were will ask you what you did to act to prevent this from happening again, to make sure that the foundational elements of our democracy were rock solid. What did you do to protect your city? What did you do to protect your nation? This is not what America is about. This is not a partisan issue. This is an American issue. This administration and everyone involved in this operation should be reflecting. They should be reflecting right now and asking themselves, what exactly are you accomplishing? If the goal was to achieve peace and safety, this is doing exactly the opposite. If the goal was to achieve calm and prosperity, this is doing exactly the opposite. Are you standing up for American families right now, or are we tearing them apart? The invasion of these heavily armed MASK agents roaming around on our streets of Minneapolis, emboldened with a sense of impunity. It has to end. This is not how it has to be. So to President Trump, this is a moment to act like a leader. Put Minneapolis, put America first in this moment. Let's achieve peace. Let's end this operation. And I'm telling you, our city will come back. Safety will be restored. We're asking for you to take action now to remove these federal agents. Director Sayre.

Rachel Sayre (36:32)

My name is Rachel Sayre, and I am the Director of the Emergency Management Department for the city of Minneapolis. I took this job to keep us safe because I live here and this is my community. We are doing everything we can to mitigate the impacts of this terrible situation. The city's emergency operations center continues to be activated, as it has throughout the surge in federal agents over the last few weeks. We are tracking impacts and coordinating the city's response to this situation, which is having profound repercussions in our community. I can't underscore enough how much Operation Metro Surge is impacting our city. Families with loved ones detained and those who are afraid to be in public lest they become targets need help accessing the most basic necessities like food, housing and rides to school. Businesses are shuttering and our local economy is severely impacted, which means families are suffering. Just as we were rounding a corner in our recovery, many of our Minneapolis residents, my neighbors, my friends, my community members, our ceasing participation in public life, afraid to even go to the doctor. In response, the city enterprise continues to utilize our entire emergency apparatus. That means staff across departments, often around the clock, are putting their regular jobs on hold in order to respond to the impacts of Metro Surge. I want everyone to know there are numerous resources available to community members right now. We have mental health help available. We have food assistance, housing and rental assistance, legal help. We are sharing information about what to do if you are exposed to tear gas, pepper spray or other chemical agents. And the state AGS and ACLU are collecting reports of rights violations. You can access these resources on the city's virtual resource center@minneapolismn.gov ICE Please share this information with your neighbors. We have help and we want you to be able to access that. My background is an international humanitarian response in conflict zones in Yemen, Haiti, Syria, Iraq and Ukraine. What I've seen here is what I've seen there. A powerful entity violently and intentionally terrorizing people, making them afraid to go outside so they can't earn a living, so that kids are forced out of school. This has a lasting generational impact. People can't plan a single day of their lives because they don't know who was around the corner and if their family member or neighbor is about to be taken away. In these times, you see both the best and the worst. The worst is the terror and the feeling of helplessness. The best is will continue. Continue to be our community's response. The way we are showing up for each other, that is the. In the absolute worst of times, we're showing up for each other in the absolute worst of times. I'll turn it back to the mayor. Thank you.

Mayor Jacob Frey (39:59)

We'll open it to questions.

Matt Sepich (40:00)

We are seeing an incredible volatile situation.

Tim Miller (40:03)

Unfolding right now around that scene.

Mayor Jacob Frey (40:05)

Is there any communication right now between local federal law enforcement or cooperation or where. Where do those efforts stand to try to calm what's going on down there right now? Yeah, I'll turn it to the Chief Dancer.

Chief Brian O'Hara (40:22)

So the question was there is a incredibly volatile scene in south Minneapolis right now and the extent to of communication with law enforcement agencies. We have established a command post that is led by Minneapolis police and there are representatives from all of the regional, local, county and state organizations. We have had communication with Homeland Security, but they have not been able to provide us any specific details around the incident itself. We are responsible for ensuring the safety of people on the streets of our city and we are doing everything that we can to maintain the peace. Right now led by Minneapolis police, but with the help of the Minnesota State Patrol, Hennepin and Ramsey County Sheriffs, several suburban towns are in the city helping us with 911 calls. We have done an emergency recall of all sworn personnel back to duty. And we are working with the fire department right now to ensure that two small fires that were started in the area are safely extinguished. But again, we need everyone to avoid the area if possible. And the people who are in the area. We understand your frustrations. This is not sustainable. But we need people to leave the area at this time.

Tim Miller (41:45)

Is the National Guard involved?

Chief Brian O'Hara (41:47)

We have communicated with the National Guard. They have been on standby for several days and we have ensured the National Guard as well as all of the local law enforcement partners are aware of the situation.

Trisha McLaughlin (41:58)

If I can ask you. This is a statement from Trisha McLaughlin, spokesperson for DHS. She said in her statement an individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 millimeter semi automatic handgun seen here. They showed a picture of it. The officers attempted to disarm the suspect, but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle of her for coming. Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers and agent fired defensive shots. Medic. Medics on the scene immediately delivered medical aid.

Sarah Longwell (42:31)

Can you.

Trisha McLaughlin (42:32)

Is that what happened?

Chief Brian O'Hara (42:34)

So Minneapolis police, the question was you read a statement from DHS saying that a weapon was presented and there was attempts to disarm the person. Again, like I stated earlier, Minneapolis police, as well as you know, our supervisors, our watch commander responded to the scene. We were not provided any public safety statement around the incident. What happened? We have since seen a video that is circulating online like thousands of other people have at this time. So we do not know what happened prior to the recording that is on online right now. I immediately called for the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension to respond to conduct an investigation. They are on the scene. I believe the FBI is on the scene as well. But I think the video speaks for itself. What I can tell you is we have identified this person. 37 year old white male resident of the city. The only interaction that we are aware of with law enforcement has been for traffic tickets and we believe, believe he is a lawful gun owner with a permit to carry.

Matt Sepich (43:39)

Chief, can you clarify? Was MPD cut out of this investigation?

Tim Miller (43:44)

Has the BCA been cut out like we've seen from the two previous shootings?

Chief Brian O'Hara (43:47)

The question was has MPD been cut out of the investigation and has the BCA been cut out? As I stated, I immediately requested the BCA to respond. It's my understanding that they are on the scene. I have not heard anything otherwise. There was initially some information was relayed to me over the radio that we were. Our officers were told that they were either not needed or could leave. And I gave a direct order to ensure that Minneapolis police maintain the scene as well as other state and local law enforcement.

Sarah Longwell (44:16)

Can you talk about the multiple officers.

Trisha McLaughlin (44:20)

Involved in the shooting custody at all?

Chief Brian O'Hara (44:25)

So the question was, was is there multiple officers involved in the shooting? That is the preliminary information. That is our understanding that it was more than one law, law enforcement officer involved in the discharge. And again, there is public video that shows several law enforcement officers in a scuffle with someone.

Matt Sepich (44:46)

Can you talk about the discrepancy? Initial reports said that the victim here was 51 years old. The information that you have, where, where is that from?

Chief Brian O'Hara (44:56)

So the. The question was the initial reports said the victim was 51. The information that I have is we sent Minneapolis police officers to the hospital with the individual who was shot and they have since identified that person.

Tim Miller (45:09)

Name the individual who shot?

Chief Brian O'Hara (45:11)

I do, and I'm not releasing it.

Trisha McLaughlin (45:13)

Are you able to talk. Have you been able to talk with top ICE and Border Patrol officials to ask them to please be in on this? Or have you talked to them or have you been rejected?

Chief Brian O'Hara (45:24)

The question was, have we talked with federal law enforcement to be in on this? We have had conversations with Homeland Security Investigations this morning. We are told they do not have any information to share at this time. But we will attempt to maintain those communications going forward.

Trisha McLaughlin (45:44)

You believe that they have no information to share at this time?

Chief Brian O'Hara (45:48)

The question was, do I believe that they have no information to share at this time? I don't know if the individual that we were in contact with would or not. This is a Saturday morning and just like it was for us, it was a scramble to do an emergency recall and to get people to the scene.

Sarah Longwell (46:03)

All right, thank you, guys.

Trisha McLaughlin (46:03)

We'll have more information if we get Any later.

Tim Miller (46:11)

All right, that was the press conference of local officials, Chief o', Hara, Mayor Fry in Minneapolis, few things I want to note about that. And then we have a few other updates for you guys. O' Hara said that the victim is a 37 year old white male who's a Minneapolis resident and we believe he's an American citizen. So it's two American citizens killed. We're about to show you a photo of him in a second. The Department of Homeland Security released a statement saying that the victim approached U.S. border Patrol officers with a 9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun. We'll see how that shakes out. AP has a report saying after the shooting, an angry crowd gathered and screamed profanities of federal officers calling them cowards. And then one officer responded mockingly as he walked away, telling them, boo hoo. I want to get Javier's opinion on one thing. I was. You may have noticed my thumbs down. I was unhappy with the chief saying that the right thing to do right now is not gather in that spot to protest. I think people have a right to peacefully protest and assemble. It's the job of federal law enforcement to not crack down on them and not escalate. I think peaceful assembly is fine. That's my opinion. I want to get JBL's take on that in a second, but just let me pull up. We have this picture of the victim. I want to show that. And then we have a couple more videos or maybe one more video angle. There he is. So you know, what we learned from this photo, I think, is that this guy is monitoring. Well, he's a monitor. So what's happening? So obviously this is. They're not. Not that it would be any better if they were targeting the worst of the worst, illegal immigrant or whatever. But this is not that. ICE has now been in Minnesota and killed what appears to be two citizen protesters rather than two undocumented immigrants. I want to show one more video. This is. Oh, shoot. I want to shout out the name of who gave us this video. Give me a second. We'll watch the video and then I'll credit them on the. On the back. This is on the way up. Oh, my God. So you can hear much more clearly there, all the gunshots.

Jonathan Last (48:40)

I think it's 11.

Tim Miller (48:42)

11 gunshots. That's from the reporter. That's reporter. Bring me the news that was on the ground. All right, JVL out there, what were your actions from the press conference and the additional information we have? And I also think, just FYI, guys, stick around. We have our friend Chris Estrushko, the Minnesota protester guy, is going to be joining us here in second.

Chief Brian O'Hara (49:02)

A second.

Jonathan Last (49:03)

Yeah. I mean, just very quickly. I mean, it's, it's one thing to say, like, well, this has to end and this is not sustainable, but like, or. Right.

Tim Miller (49:15)

Or, or what?

Jonathan Last (49:17)

And that is, it is a little bit plaintive for the mayor and the governor and the police chief, like saying, you know, Donald Trump, end this, you know, be a leader, put America first, etc. Etc. Etc.

Rachel Sayre (49:30)

Or.

Jonathan Last (49:32)

Right. And, you know, because if there is no or then, then this isn't going to end. Right. And, you know, I, I don't understand quite what it's, it's like the, the statement that the governor of Maine put out when she was like, you know, just please make no mistake, that these tactics will not be welcomed. Well, that's not the question. The question isn't whether the residents of Maine will welcome them, it's whether the government of Maine will tolerate them or allow.

Tim Miller (50:01)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (50:02)

Or allow them. That's. And so, you know, I would like a little bit more understanding.

Tim Miller (50:07)

Yeah, I understand. In the moment. Right. Like, this is all happening very fast. You know, you're trying to calm tensions.

Jonathan Last (50:12)

This is figure skating judge stuff.

Tim Miller (50:14)

Yeah, yeah. That's an initial press conference. But you're, I think your point is, right, that once the dust settles on this tragedy, there'll be others, probably what happens next. And I think that's a very important question about what we're going to get from these guys, because here's what we know, and I want to get to Chris, one second. But here's what we know about the federal government's perspective on this. As we mentioned earlier, Stephen Miller wants escalation. Seems like J.D. vance wants escalation. Donald Trump, I don't know. But here's one thing I do know is that, and we have a lot of reporting on this, is that he has some regrets about the post George Floyd response from the government. He wanted the government to crack down harder. And, and so to me, if you just learn from that, I think that, that he sees this as a second.

Jonathan Last (50:58)

Chance to do the rerun.

Tim Miller (51:01)

GEORGE FLOYD yeah, to do the, to do the crackdown. The, you know, when the looting shirts, the shooting starts, like that's what he wanted then. And I, and I think that he, that, that the escalation here serves that psychological need, to use a phrase of his that he used about Greenland. And I think that's pretty alarming. And I think that speaks to your point about how you know, local officials are gonna have to do more than say calm down if they want this to stop. Okay. We have Chris Ostrushko, I believe. Do we, Chris? Minnesota. Hello, angry man. Hey, man. Thank you for jumping in with us. I don't know. Give us an update. Where are you at? And are you heading back out to the protest? What's the lay of the lance?

Chris Ostrushko (51:40)

Yeah, we are headed back down. I'm gonna go check, check out where this actually took place. I, I know people that are actually there, and I've heard the reports that the, that the, the observer was armed, but I know for a fact he was not armed. They claim he was armed with a six. Six hour standard issue, which, which was a gun that ICE was issuing to, to the ICE agents up until last year because they found out that it was having a lot of misfires. So I just question everything that they say because, you know, as we know, as, as we see their press conferences, it's all covering their tracks. For instance, with the, the young child that they abducted saying that the parents didn't want him and like they're running some sort of daycare at the ICE facility, which is absolutely not true because we've been questioning people. We've been, you know, we're out observing. I'm out questioning some of these people, talking to families. And I know that's not, that's absolutely not true. And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's just straight up lying. And that's what we see here from the administration, from Bavino, from the ICE agents. You know, yesterday we have this protest, and it seems like the, the media kind of played it down with the numbers that show up. I was supposed to meet a Star Tribune photographer there who couldn't find me. And he documented the whole thing and estimated that there were well over a hundred thousand people in the streets of Minneapolis. We shut down the city. It gave me goosebumps. There was not one incident of aggression. It was 100% peaceful protest. In fact, it was. It turned into a giant dance party. Probably the biggest dance party you've ever seen in your life. I mean, it was, it was heartwarming because people were holding up signs, you know, that, that we're using my verbiage from the original video that went viral. And, and it was, it was, it was unbelievable. And then we, then we wake up to this today. It. I just. I'm at a loss for words.

Tim Miller (53:47)

I don't know what, man, where. So where are you headed? I guess one Thing is, what do we think that where the locus of the protests are going to be today and what you think the plan is going to be for. For protesters who want to speak out?

Chris Ostrushko (53:59)

Well, the protest, I believe, will probably be at Whipple is where it usually is. You know, that's. That's the. The bees.

Tim Miller (54:07)

I've.

Chris Ostrushko (54:07)

I call it now because the ICE agents are coming and going like these coming out of a beehive, but I think that's where the protests are going to be. I don't know if there'll be a protest on the ground at the actual shooting. We're heading out because we're gonna. We're gonna be observers today. That is my plan. That was my plan since yesterday. I want to be out. I want to document just like that gentleman was documenting. So I don't know, you know, what's safe anymore because apparently these guys can do whatever they want.

Tim Miller (54:38)

All right, man, we'll stay safe. When you get out there, keep us posted, shoot us a text, let us know what you're hearing on the ground and. And we'll check back in. All right, brother, I appreciate you very much. Stay safe.

Chris Ostrushko (54:47)

All right, thank you very much.

Tim Miller (54:49)

All right.

Jonathan Last (54:52)

One thing real quick. That from the news conference.

Tim Miller (54:55)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (54:56)

That Chief o' Hara did say that it was his understanding that the victim here did have a lawful permit to carry. So that is, again, it's like another piece of news here. And when you start squaring this with the stuff being said by dhs, who is, you know, if you look at the. The statement, I think the exact wording is like a. Approached the agents with a 9 millimeter gun. Right. It's like. Well, with it where.

Tim Miller (55:29)

Right, right.

Jonathan Last (55:30)

And again, this is like you just. And it. It is kind of a problem. It's not just a problem that the government has put a couple thousand armed masked agents in the streets of Minneapolis. It's also a problem that the government now openly lies all the time.

Tim Miller (55:46)

Right.

Jonathan Last (55:46)

They. They just saw. Wow. That woman was a domestic terrorist. You know, and I.

Matt Sepich (55:53)

That.

Jonathan Last (55:54)

I just don't know how, like. Right. This short circuits all the things that we have in place to deal with the, you know, the problems that law enforcement creates. Sometimes.

Tim Miller (56:02)

Yeah.

Jonathan Last (56:03)

That all goes out the window when. When the government is. Is not even trying to be careful. Right. And in fact, when they're just doing open propaganda and I. Yeah. Like, I don't know.

Tim Miller (56:17)

Right. I think this relates to someone. Look, I mean, this is just a active scene right now and like, you know, I think we're all trying to figure out the best we can. I think Chris was making some comments about like what we know and, and about what he thinks he knows. I. We don't, we don't know. We don't have the video yet of what exactly this guy was doing when he approached law enforcement. I think for a long time I've been saying, and we've been saying on here that like this is going to come to a head. I mean we are a heavily armed country. A lot of people have the right to carry. And if you have masked thugs going up to people, bad shit are going to happen, you know. And we've all said that that was going to happen and it was extremely predictable. And not only did they do nothing to try to prevent that, they've done everything possible to try to incite incidents like this. We have another video angle I do want to warn again, it's from. Bring me the news. Who's on the ground there? I want to warn people that you can see from this angle now the body of the victim on the ground. So fair warning. But let's take a look at that.

Chief Brian O'Hara (57:33)

Go.

Tim Miller (57:39)

As well, man. All right, I think that's enough for me. They the calling for the scissors and I guess the one difference between this case at least try to. At least one of the 19 agents there try to get to give the guy some medical attention. Unlike when Renee Good was executed in the street and they just let her die bleed out. So now we're back on the ground here with kind of a live feed. I think that our colleague Sarah Longwell is going to be joining us here momentarily and we're going to keep our eye out for additional video as it, as it comes. Jbl. I don't know any, any thoughts on that?

Jonathan Last (58:32)

Yeah, I mean I'm. I'm sorry, I'm a little stuck on the problem that you can't. That you can't trust what the government says. Right. And it's just such it is. That is a sea change from how the American government has ever worked. And we saw there was a piece of news last night where one of the high level agents in the Minneapolis field office resigned because she tried to launch an investigation on the Renee Goode killing.

Tim Miller (59:09)

Yes.

Jonathan Last (59:09)

And was told no, you can't do that. I mean what, what the hell is going on?

Tim Miller (59:18)

Well, that's what's been going on in the federal office of the FBI since the beginning of the term. And that New York Times story of the. I think it was 45 agents that have Been pushed out for various reasons, talking to the Times and like a time and again, anyone who is. Who is trying to, you know, look into malfeasance by the government, past or presence, press or present, is being kicked out. You know, kind of like we're a Soviet state. I want to welcome our colleague Sarah Longwell in here. Sarah.

Sarah Longwell (59:48)

Hey, guys.

Tim Miller (59:49)

What. I just. I just love to hear your thoughts on what we've been seeing this morning.

Sarah Longwell (59:55)

So, yeah, I was like, you know, out with my kids and then saw it breaking. But when I got back, I turned on and they were doing the press conference. Did you guys watch the press conference?

Tim Miller (60:06)

We watched the press conference live. Yeah.

Sarah Longwell (60:07)

Was your. Was your reaction the same as mine? Which is that basically what they were saying to us is that the ICE official or ICE dhs, whoever is not cooperating with local law enforcement, like, not giving them any information.

Tim Miller (60:20)

Yeah, the chief had said that. Yeah.

Sarah Longwell (60:21)

And he seemed mad about it.

Tim Miller (60:23)

Yes. They tried to kick him off the scene. So this was another. This is. Minneapolis Star Tribune reported this, that the chief said that when, when their local law enforcement tried to go secure the scene, do what you do after a killing the agent, the federal agents tried to kick them out and they stood their ground, which is pretty.

Sarah Longwell (60:41)

Yeah, he said, he said that he instructed them to stay, but he. He was sort of describing, like, there's a person I'm in touch with, but, you know, they're not. You know, he. The. The thing that was so striking to me is that he's like, there's a video circulating online. That's what we've seen. Like, you know, they. They're basically operating. Their local law enforcement is having to operate off of the same information that like the Internet is. Because they're not giving local law enforcement, like, the updates, the briefs working together the way things would normally work. I also don. If you guys. Because you guys have been on here and I've been just like watching TV and scrolling the Internet. There's like a number of videos that are emerging of different angles on this. It's just like with the Renee Good situation where this is just people on the scene with their cameras. They're uploading what they've. What they witnessed. Cars that are going by. There's one of a car going by where they catch the beginning of the interaction where he's kind of just standing there and they push him back, but he's not brandishing a weapon. And I, I don't know if you guys have any more information on this than I do, but but some of the. Now some of the new angles that are coming out, it's very clear he is already on the ground, already completely subdued. I think somebody shot, shoots him once, and then they just. Then they just empty their guns into him.

Tim Miller (62:10)

Yeah, I want to pull up two pictures here because we did do that earlier, but we have a new. This is another still of the victim beforehand. And to just make the point that you're making about. And to JBL's point earlier about how what we've heard from our lying government is that he was brandishing his weapon or that he. What was the phrase, jvl. That he was approached with the weapon.

Jonathan Last (62:37)

Approached with a weapon?

Tim Miller (62:38)

Yeah, approached with a weapon. You can see here. You know, here's the victim in the black.

Sarah Longwell (62:43)

He's filming.

Tim Miller (62:43)

He's filming with. Most importantly, with his right hand. Yeah, right. So his phone is in his right hand, not his gun. So I. You know, again, this is all developing. You know, we'll continue to see more angles and to bring them to you. But again, similar, like you said, Sarah, to the Renee Good situation, this is not. It does not appear like this is somebody that was, you know, a crazy person charging the cops with the weapon, at least initially. I want to also go back to that very original image. Guys, give me a second of this. The shooter. Because this is to Sarah's point that we pulled up the shooter on the left side with the red circle. We started at the beginning of the live stream. Like, to me, this. This image, when we pull this up, Sarah is the key point here, which is the guy. The guy had shot him. And everyone had dispersed. Here it is. Everyone had dispersed. All the ICE agents, all the masked guys had dispersed. And there he is, still far away from the body, still with his weapon. Firing.

Chief Brian O'Hara (63:46)

Firing.

Tim Miller (63:46)

Yeah, that's. He's firing right now at that. During this screenshot. He's still firing.

Sarah Longwell (63:51)

No, if you. This is what's coming out. Like, he, like, empties his clip into this guy who was already on the ground. And I got to tell you. Okay, so. So we are not that far off from the Renee good thing. We all spent a lot of time talking about it on camera, analyzing it. And one of the things that really, I think became a flashpoint in the Renee Good killing was the fact that you could hear him saying, fucking bitch after he shot her. Because what it demonstrated was a total lack of professionalism and a rage on his part after he'd murdered her. Right. Like. Like he got it off his chest. This is the same Energy from this guy right here. The guy is already dead. Or if not, sorry, not necessarily dead, but he's already subdued. His body's already on the ground. He's already clearly hurt, and he's just emptying his clip into him. That's that kind of. That's that kind of like just rage. I'm just gonna make sure this guy is. Is dead and can't be treated and can't, you know, get. Get medical attention. Like, we're just gonna make sure he's dead.

Tim Miller (64:51)

I want to show that video again. We showed about a minute ago of the approach, but this is all happening live. And it's kind of hard to orient yourself on what we're looking at. But this is the video from the screenshot of the victim with his weapon. I want to show the video of what preceded it once more so that we kind of know what we're looking at here. And this is the one you referenced, Sarah. It's coming from inside the car driving by. Let's watch that. Do we have that ready, guys? No, this isn't the one I'm talking about. We can stop this. Just pull it up when you got it, guys. It's the. It's the video. It's coming from inside the car that was posted there by the. The J. Freaking C on X. Who has been. Who has been doing really good work on social media. So we'll get to that in a second, but I don't know. Jvl, do you have any additional thoughts what Sarah was popping off on there?

Jonathan Last (66:08)

I don't. I'm sorry. I. This is one of those things where I. I'm getting, like, angrier and angrier.

Tim Miller (66:16)

You're about to get angry and angrier when you see this video, because this is this video that we're about to show you. And I'll talk about it as our guys get it ready. I think is the closest video that we see to what happens preceding. Because the guy is holding his camera phone with his right hand, and you see him standing in the street, and then the officers are pushing him back. So again, we don't know necessarily what happened between the end of this video we're about to show you and when he gets killed. But, like, the initial. We can now see, like, kind of this initial encounter between the victim and the federal agents and how they. They push him back from inside the car. So. So. So we'll get to that in a second. But I just. Man, it is. It's ready. Okay, great. Let's. Let's let's take a look. He's on the left here of the screen.

Jonathan Last (67:15)

Yeah.

Tim Miller (67:16)

Unroll your windows. All right, let's go around.

Sarah Longwell (67:31)

I mean, so we can't see his left hand. So I just, I just in, in, in trying to parse these videos, I just want to acknowledge that, like, what we can see and what it looks like from any angle that we've seen is he is standing there with his phone. And I've now seen a couple of videos of the angle of that ICE agent sort of pushing him back, but he looks like he's just standing in the street filming. I have not seen any video yet that it is the guy approaching the police officers. Not that that necessarily matters. That's just that here, here, here's the one other point I want to make that I'm sure you guys have already made since you have been on here. But I, I, I'd like to make it myself, which is as I was watching the update and he was, they were reading DHS's update, one of the reporters was giving it to him. And both the reporter and, as a, as a viewer, you sit there and say, why would we believe this? Like, the reporter's, like, is this true? Is what DHS is saying is true? Which is deeply important that we are now at a place where people question, out of the gate, the truthfulness of the American government, because we all know that they will rush to frame this to serve their own purposes in ways that do not have to have any relationship to reality, which is exactly what they did with Renee Goode. Like, the thing, there was so much that was horrifying about it, but one of the really, really horrifying things, because it's, it's, it's much bigger than any one incident, is the government's willingness to lie. Donald Trump's willingness to lie. Donald Trump lied about it out of the gate, and so did Kristi Noem.

Tim Miller (69:09)

Sarah, I want only Jerry Bielva and I have already chewed this over, but I want to get your take on it, because I just, I think it's a really tough question, right, because there's this emotional response that you want the good guys here, the local officials, to escalate this against via the government using every means necessary. On the other hand, there are risks associated with that. You're seeing people calling for Tim Walls to say he should call in the National Guard. That's interesting to me as an option. But Donald Trump could then federalize it. Then what happens? Questions about what that police chief, what Mayor Fry can do, and whether they should be arresting the ICE agent in that picture. Are there other tactics that can be used? Those guys, I think for good reason. I think in the initial press conference were really focused on trying calm tensions and get people to be peaceful. But eventually this is going to reach a boiling point where the local officials are going to have to make some hard choices. I'm just kind of wondering what your reaction is to that.

Sarah Longwell (70:10)

Yeah, you know, JBL and I, I don't know if we argued about this, but we certainly discussed it on the secret podcast because, you know, I am always loath to do things that unnecessarily escalate situations. So the question is, when is it necessary to escalate? I think my preference instead, and this is going to be a quick reaction, I'm going to reserve the right to change my mind on this. But what I was sitting there thinking as I watched Governor Pritzker was on the TV just after the whole thing ended, I think what Democrats should do right now is come out with one voice and demand that Trump remove ice like, rather than escalate, demand, like having the local people escalate and put more people in harm's way. Like, everybody should be saying to Donald Trump right now, get people out. Like, they should all be supporting walls and phrase, demand. They should all be calling the White House saying, get these people out of here. That's the best outcome, is that Trump, for political and moral reasons, is forced to remove the level of ICE agents that they have. And so I think that. And the Democrats should be calling the Republicans and saying, demand that Trump get these guys out. Like, there should be one voice on this. And I feel like that would be a slightly better outcome than just escalating things, but it might be necessary.

Tim Miller (71:40)

Yeah, I mean, I think I agree that that's a good step. I don't know that they're going to respond to it. And so eventually the next steps come into question. You mentioned Sarah, and it's so fast. This is all just kind of like the renegade thing. We couldn't see his left hand. And one of our producers here grabs this kind of screenshot. It's blurry, but you can see there.

Sarah Longwell (72:00)

Is his left hand. I can see it.

Tim Miller (72:02)

I can see his left hand.

Sarah Longwell (72:03)

And it's empty.

Tim Miller (72:04)

It looks empty. Doesn't look like it's a gun.

Jonathan Last (72:08)

Tim, can we ask Sarah the political question that you and I sort of batted around with? Should Democrats in the Senate pitch a fit on this?

Tim Miller (72:16)

Shut down the Senate.

Jonathan Last (72:18)

Shut down the Senate over this this is a real, like, you know, this is. I mean, there's a moral version this week also.

Tim Miller (72:23)

It happens to be happening.

Jonathan Last (72:24)

Yeah, the. Sarah, you know, put on your strategist hat question of this.

Sarah Longwell (72:28)

So. So I gotta say, you know, you know how much I love all my moderates. I love when people are, you know, are circumspect and sometimes and are willing to buck their parties. I thought it was insane that seven Democrats voted to keep funding ICE just in this, just recently. It's insane. Unacceptable, totally unacceptable. And so, like, that's not. When people say they want heterodox, that doesn't mean what they want is just people who are going to vote with Republicans on crappy stuff. Like, this is an opportunity. Reassert your power. Congress, you have the power of the purse. You are funding these people. And even if you want to make an excuse, even if you think, look, they should be able to do their jobs, and we want to remove illegal immigrants or whatever, the idea that we need a reset as a country is real. Right. Like, responsible people right now should be saying, we're not going to keep funding this. We will not give you money for anything else until you stop this paramilitary force in America's streets.

Tim Miller (73:33)

Hey, Sarah, we got to bring in. We have correspondent for NPR News in Minneapolis, Matt Sepich. Is it Sepich? Sepic. Ugh. All right, well, I'm close. We're doing it live. Matt, give us a lay of the land of what you're seeing on the ground there.

Matt Sepich (73:48)

Well, I was just at a news conference here in Minneapolis City hall with Mayor Jake.

Tim Miller (73:57)

Do we lose his audio?

Sarah Longwell (73:58)

Did we lose his audio?

Tim Miller (73:59)

Yeah.

Sarah Longwell (74:00)

You lost your audio?

Matt Sepich (74:00)

I lost my audio. Let me try it one more time here.

Jonathan Last (74:03)

Okay.

Matt Sepich (74:03)

Is it working?

Tim Miller (74:04)

You're back.

Matt Sepich (74:05)

I'm back.

Jonathan Last (74:05)

Okay.

Matt Sepich (74:06)

I. As I said, I don't know at what point it cut out. I'm in Minneapolis City hall right now. I just got done at a news conference with the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry, and Police Chief Brian o'. Hara. They, of course, are calling for calm. They're describing what's a volatile scene in South Minneapolis a few miles from here at 26th street and Nicollet Avenue, where this man was shot this morning by federal agents. And the police chief has declared that there is an unlawful assembly there. We have heard reports that there were a couple of small fires that were put out. I am not there myself, so I can't tell you about any, you know, anything more specific than that. But what I can relay to you is what the mayor and Police chief said today again, they're all calling for calm. The mayor is saying that telling President Trump directly to, to end this now, abide by your campaign slogan and put America first in America's cities, first and make, make things safe. He says he is done being told to turn down the temperature and that it's up to state and local officials to turn down the temperature and turn down the rhetoric.

Tim Miller (75:31)

I saw that the police chief and that press are kind of discouraged people from going to the scene to protest. Do we know where kind of that, the, that the public protest is going to center? Like what do we expect in the city?

Matt Sepich (75:44)

Not sure yet. It seems that people have been gathering there and it has been volatile, as you mentioned. As I mentioned, the chief, Brian o' Hara said that it is an unlawful assembly. He's urging people to avoid that area, to go home and just don't get anywhere near where this, this man was shot. What the mayor said too, which was, was striking. He compared and contrasted what he saw yesterday here in downtown Minneapolis. In fact, it was just right down the street from where I am. We had tens of, he said 15,000 people. Who knows, it may have been more marching peacefully through the streets and protesting the Trump administration's crackdown in this city. He noted there was not one person injured. Of all those thousands, there was not one broken window. And he has said at past news conferences not to take the bait from the Trump administration. Administration, he says, and other officials say they are seeking to stoke violence and protest peacefully.

Tim Miller (76:51)

I mean they've killed more people than Minneapolis citizens have killed this year, I think so.

Matt Sepich (76:56)

I, I think you're right, Tim. They there now two shootings, of course. Renee Macklin.

Jonathan Last (77:02)

Good.

Matt Sepich (77:02)

On January 7th and this 37 year old man today. Actually both people, 37 years old. Initial reports that we got ahead of this news conference had said that the, the man who was killed was 51 years old. That turned out not to be accurate. And I, I did ask the chief how he learned this new information. He said that one of his officers went with the man in the ambulance to Hennepin County Medical center just a few miles from the shooting scene and was able to confirm, confirm his identity. Now, he did not release the man's name, but said he is 37 years old, white, male American citizen. His only interactions with the criminal justice system, if you could call it that, were traffic tickets and said that he had a permit to carry. And immediately before this news he did.

Tim Miller (77:53)

Have a permit to carry. That was something we were speculating about.

Matt Sepich (77:56)

He did. He did have a permit to carry in. In Minnesota, most states, yeah, you can, you can get a permit to carry fairly legally, and this man had one. And I should note too, that ahead of this news conference, the Department of Homeland Security began seeding a narrative that this man was violent. They immediately released an image of what they said was a. A handgun and some magazines that they found with this man. Again, under American law, under Minnesota law, under the second second Amendment, it appears that this, this man was carrying this firearm legally. And Mayor Fry said that, you know, he witnessed this video. I'm sure you all have seen it, too. He described it as a pummeling by, by six agents, shooting this, shooting this man in, in the street.

Tim Miller (78:56)

All right, Matt, please keep us posted, man. I sure will appreciate it you popping on, and we'll stay in touch. All right.

Matt Sepich (79:04)

All right, take care.

Sarah Longwell (79:05)

Thanks.

Tim Miller (79:05)

All right, we've been going for a while now, and I don't know how much more information we're going to be getting, so maybe we'll go around the horn with the final thoughts. And then as things develop, you can keep, keep an eye on our YouTube page here. Bill Kristol is always live on Sundays at noon, so he'll be back tomorrow. And obviously we'll be keeping you posted as we get new information, but I don't know. Jbl, do you want to go first?

Jonathan Last (79:28)

Just two things. First of all, we have somebody. Somebody texted me to say, this is where we are right now. This is where conservatism has led. We have to accept school shootings as just the inevitable price of doing business because it is imperative that everybody be able to walk around carrying a gun. Also, if you're walking around legally carrying a gun, agents, the government can use that as pretext to murder you on the street.

Chief Brian O'Hara (79:55)

Cool.

Jonathan Last (79:55)

Great. Good to know. I just want to underline something. We talked about this, but, you know, it was now an hour ago. At this point, the people of Minneapolis and what they are doing is heroic and important. And I. I just think we should all appreciate it and appreciate that they are putting themselves really on the line for all of us. They're not just protecting their neighbors at this point. This is. This is a holding action being performed on behalf of liberal democracy everywhere in America. And I am incredibly grateful and in awe of the way in which normal people are standing up when so many of our elites have decided not to.

Tim Miller (80:48)

Sarah.

Sarah Longwell (80:49)

All right, I'm going to say a few things. One is JBL talks about conservatism. One of the things that I think drew many of us to conservatism in our younger days was that we were against jackbooted thugs being able to murder American citizens. Right? This was, this was inside something that conservatives were supposed to stand for, which is these guys aren't, these guys aren't showing their faces, they're not showing identification to people and they are murdering them in their own streets. Conservatives should be opposed to that. And instead I am watching them run cover for these people left and right and talking about how, no, no, no, you should just obey. You know what? They're allowed to protest. They were allowed to purchase and tape.

Tim Miller (81:33)

They'Re allowed to tape in their own streets.

Sarah Longwell (81:35)

They are, this is their home. And so that's one thing. Number two is we've gotta really get our heads around the fact that we cannot trust the things coming out of our government. And I was watching the police officer give the updates on what was happening and reading his body language, he seemed enraged. And he seemed enraged by the idea that people were there causing chaos in their streets, making it impossible for them to do their jobs. Them, the local police have real responsibilities there. ICE are the outsiders. And so, you know, and then to JBL's point about the, the protesters and stuff, I gotta tell you, we just, we, when we just went out here in D.C. it is really cold here in D.C. it's the coldest. I felt it, right? It was like minus two this morning, which never happens in dc. Do you know what the temperature is right now in Minneapolis? Do you know how cold it is out there? And I'm watching people. There's a 70 year old man just standing there. Someone's filming him and he's just saying, I'm so mad. Like, what are they doing? Get out of here. We don't want you here. And like this is, you have to listen to the people of a state, like that's states rights. Like anything we've ever believed in in our entire lives. It's all being violated right now. And we should demand conservatives be better. We should demand Republicans do it. You know, I think, I think if we get wrapped up in the idea of like, you know, does and it might escalate anyway in Minneapolis we might be on tonight because more things might pop off. I hope it doesn't. But like you're now creating and people are already mad about Renee. Good. For good reason, right? They're already enraged and now there's going to be more rage. And it would not surprise me if there's more people on the streets, which gives More pretextual stuff for action. And so I just, I want to reiterate what, what JBL says though. Like people should go out and say, we don't want this. That is good. I understand that the police are saying, you know, nobody should go out. But like what are we supposed to do when the government is lying to us? You have to go out and say, go out. We oppose this.

Tim Miller (83:54)

Go out. Yeah, this relates to my final point, which is I just, I keep wanting to go Back to the 30,000 foot view of all this, you know, because I'm gonna get into fights with people on the Internet, I'm sure over the next two days over like the screenshots and the videos. But the broader point is that there's no reason for this. Like the federal government has killed two American citizens in Minneapolis for no reason. Like there is not a purpose. It is not like the Civil Rights act where they're trying to let people, you know, black people get into the schools. We need the federal agents to go protect them so they have a right to an education. It's not because there's, there's this overwhelming immigrant violence problem in Minneapolis that like request required federal troops to deal with. It's not because like it's for nothing. It's for now, it's for show, it's for their whole kayfabe. It's like they want to do authoritarianism propaganda. That is why people are in this, that is why the federal agents are in Minnesota, you know, for their propaganda purposes only. Like they are not there to solve any real problem. And, and as a result, when members of that city are pissed that they're being used as propaganda tools and that their neighbors are getting hassled and harassed, you know, in service of their propaganda and they go out and speak out about it, the government is killing them like in response. It is a fucking outrage. There's no reason for it. Like it is. And so like, rather than even getting bogged down and all the details of, of this killing or the Renee Good killing, I just think it's important to continue to focus on the fact that these mass thugs in our streets that are killing people are doing it only in service of Donald Trump's propaganda and that they have no right to be there. The mayor doesn't want them, the governor doesn't want them, they're not solving any problems and they should get the fuck out. So to recap, 37 year old Minnesota resident was killed by the federal agents in south Minneapolis. There were 11 shots fired. We're going to continue to cover the situation as it develops. Mayor Fry's final message to Trump was let's end this operation now. Our city will come back. We're asking for action now to remove the federal agents. Our colleague Bill Chris will be live tomorrow. And if there's more stuff in the meantime, we'll be back. So appreciate everybody. See you, Sarah. See you, jbl.

Sarah Longwell (86:18)

See you guys.