BREAKING: Thomas Massie Loses Primary Against Trump-Backed Challenger

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Thomas Massie Loses Primary to Trump-Backed Challenger (May 20, 2026)

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host(s): Sam Stein (D), JVL (A), various commentators
Topic: Breaking coverage of Rep. Thomas Massie’s surprising GOP primary loss in Kentucky’s 4th Congressional District, dissecting the race’s national implications, the influence of Trump, shifting GOP dynamics, and the future of principled dissent in the party.

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Episode Overview

The episode provides immediate analysis and reaction to the political upset of arch-libertarian Republican Thomas Massie losing his primary to Ed Gallerin, a Trump-endorsed, previously little-known challenger. Hosts break down what Massie’s defeat reveals about the current state of the Republican Party, the enduring influence of Donald Trump, the increasing use (and dangers) of AI in political ads, emerging generational divides, and what "principled" conservatism looks like in the Trump era.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Upset: Massie’s Loss and What It Means (01:00–04:09)

• Trump’s Dominance:
  • Massie lost despite his ideological alignment with many “MAGA” policies—he was defeated solely because Trump turned against him.
  • Quote (JVL, 01:36): “There’s a lot of this is Trump’s party, as Lindsey Graham said. But the most interesting thing here... Massey’s big sin was that he was in favor of releasing the Epstein files and that he’s against the war in Iran.”
• Loyalty Over Policy:
  • Trump’s signaling, not actual issue stances, determined the race outcome.
  • Gallerin’s candidacy was seen as a “pure proxy for Trump”: “The voters just clap like seals and did what Trump demanded.” (JVL, 03:34)

2. The Nature of the Race: Spending and Tactics (04:09–06:03)

• Unprecedented Spending:
  • Over $33 million in total ad spending for a down-ballot House primary—described as “basically buying literally every ad slot” in the district. (D, 05:45)
• Low-Caliber Challenger:
  • Gallerin described as a “tomato can” who has never held office or shown up to debates—underscoring that the contest was about Trump, not the alternative’s strength.

3. The AI Disinformation Era in Campaign Ads (06:03–11:19)

• AI ‘Throuple’ Ads:

  • Gallerin’s campaign ran AI-generated ads depicting Massie supposedly in a "thruple" with "the Squad," accusing him of sexual and ideological betrayals.
  • Quote (ad, 07:28): “Massie caught in a thruple in Washington. He’s cheating with the Squad on the America First movement.”
  • Discussion on the legality and ethicality of using AI to create fake incriminating imagery:
    • “How is that any different from showing AI-generated video purporting to be security camera footage of things which never happened?” (JVL, 08:23)
    • “This is our future, basically.” (D, 09:15)

• Massey-Aligned Ads:

  • Not AI, but rife with “anti-gay homophobia and anti-Semitism” (D, 11:20).
  • Paul Singer (GOP donor and gay rights supporter) depicted as a villainous “leftist trans activist billionaire” (ad, 11:23–11:40).

4. Generational Divides and “America First” (06:35–13:47)

• Youth Versus Boomers:
  • Exit polling suggested younger GOP voters preferred Massie; older voters broke wildly (Saddam Hussein numbers) for Gallerin. (A, 06:08)
  • Discussion if this reflects a generational turn against Trump or toward “America First” antiwar, anti-establishment sentiment—or just anti-Semitism (A, 13:06).

5. The Fate of Principle and Dissent in the GOP (17:34–25:34)

• The Lame Duck Dilemma:
  • Discussion about what defeated but still-serving anti-Trump Republicans (like Bill Cassidy, John Cornyn, Thom Tillis, Lisa Murkowski, and Mitch McConnell) will do with their final months—will they use their leverage, or remain docile?
• Lack of Vindictiveness:
  • Quote (JVL, 17:37): “I have been continually shocked by the lack of vindictiveness in the Republican caucus... If this was a gang... and the guys go, and they just curb stomp you and they beat you, right?... Nobody is spiteful and says, 'Well, I'm going over to the Sharks and we're going to kick your ass.' They just lie there and say, guys, we take you back.”
• Why GOP Losers Don’t Rebel:
  • Speculation: fear of MAGA retaliation, desire for social acceptance at home, or simple lack of courage.

6. Evaluating Massie’s Legacy and Possibility for an Independent Run (25:12–26:22)

• Respect for ‘Principle,’ Even if Out of Step:
  • JVL and Sam discuss if Massie "deserves" more admiration than those like Bill Cassidy who tried to appease Trump and lost anyway.
  • “At least with Massey... he knew what he was going to do. He’s gonna get him in trouble. He did it anyway. And then he said, ‘I’m just gonna keep doing it.’ And, and I do have, I do. I find that way more admirable.” (D, 24:00)
• Could Massie Run as an Independent?:
  • Filing deadline in June 2026, so theoretically possible, though seen as unlikely.

7. Massie’s Concession Speech (27:19–37:48)

• Full of classic libertarian-populist rhetoric: antiwar, anti-interventionism, anti-corporate, anti-bureaucracy, anti-vaccine-mandate, and (implicitly) anti-Israel talking points.
• Key Quotes:
  • “There is a yearning in this country for somebody who will vote for principles over party... You all don’t like bullies and you don't tolerate them, and I love you for it.” (Massie, 28:25)
  • “We ran a clean race. Hey, and there's, by the way, after 18 months of blacking, of a blackout, of not letting me on Fox, they finally let me on Fox today, four hours into the election.” (Massie, 29:55)
  • On antiwar message: “We’re not gonna fight some other country’s wars, are we? No.” (Massie, 33:24)
  • Critique of party/corporate power: “They want, these corporations want get-out-of-court-free cards. We’re not going to give them one.” (34:16)
  • On government overreach: “We need food freedom. We need medical freedom. We need all of those freedoms.” (37:37)

8. What’s Next for the GOP (38:03–45:08)

• No Room for Dissent:
  • Anyone with future GOP ambitions now knows they cannot cross Trump in any way.
  • Sam: “Anyone who wants a future in Republican politics at this point knows you can't cross Trump ever, because you're more likely than not to lose.” (26:07)
  • JVL on Trumpism’s hollow core: “I don’t think any of this stuff is principled. I think all of the MAGA stuff is really about ‘is he hurting the people I hate?’ That’s what I think the heart of MAGA is.” (38:55)
• Futures: Trump Dynasty Likely to Continue:
  • Discussion about Don Jr. as a likely front-runner in 2028, assuming familial succession (41:21–42:04).
  • Lack of “principled” or ideological consistency in who Trump targets—more about “perceived enemies” than actual issue betrayals.

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Notable Quotes

• “Voters just clap like seals and did what Trump demanded.” (JVL, 03:34)
• “If you’re a congressional candidate on the Republican side, and you’re running on a platform that is release the Epstein files, no foreign interventions, deficits out of control and we need to doge the hell out of government... that’s Donald Trump. The transgression is that Trump has changed on all those fronts, and Tom Massey hasn’t.” (D, 02:50)
• AI ad: “Massie caught in a thruple in Washington. He’s cheating with the squad on the America first movement.” (07:28)
• “I just look at that and I think to myself, you people want to be liked too much.” (JVL, 21:04)
• “If there were principle in it, as we discussed at the top, Massie would have been totally fine here. Everything, every transgression Massie made was something Trump himself had stated he publicly wanted.” (D, 43:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:00 — Breaking news: Massie defeated, immediate reactions
• 03:34 — “Voters just clap like seals and did what Trump demanded.”
• 05:45 — Discussion of historic campaign spending and advertising saturation
• 07:28 — AI-driven “thruple” attack ad aired and dissected
• 11:23 — Homophobic and anti-Semitic dark money ad dissected
• 13:06 — Debate on whether generational divides in GOP signal actual ideological change
• 17:37 — Why do ousted GOPers rarely show public spite or leave the party?
• 25:12 — Listener asks: Can Massie run as an independent?
• 27:19–37:48 — Extended cut of Massie’s live concession speech
• 38:03–39:40 — Discussion of what “America First” looks like post-Trump and the future of the party
• 41:21–42:04 — Speculation on Don Jr.’s future party leadership
• 43:01–44:40 — Final lessons: “There is no principle, just personal loyalty”

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Tone and Style

• Cagey, Sarcastic, Exasperated:
  • Hosts blend gallows humor, sharp cynicism, and incredulity at GOP acquiescence to Trump.
• Insightful and Candid:
  • Willingness to admit prior analysis errors (2018 “tipping point” for GOP failing to materialize).
• Simultaneously Analytical & Personal:
  • JVL offers metaphor (“If this was a gang...”), Sam balances principled vs. pragmatic loser analysis.

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Memorable Moments

• JVL’s Gang Analogy:
  • Satirical West Side Story/Sons of Anarchy scenario to illustrate GOP inertness (17:37)
• Dissection of “AI Thruple” Ad:
  • Hosts mock the wildness and danger of AI-generated political attack ads (07:28–08:33)
• Massie’s Concession Speech:
  • “We ran a clean race... We did not, we didn’t bend a knee. We didn’t throw a foul ball.” (Massie, 29:55)
• Speculation on a Trump Dynasty:
  • “I think Don Jr’s prospects are wildly underrated as the next nominee.” (D, 41:45)

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Final Takeaways

• Trump’s grip on the GOP is absolute; loyalty trumps all policy and ideology.
• Massie’s “principled conservatism” is now toxic if it’s not perfectly aligned with Trump.
• The GOP has entered a new era of campaign tactics—AI disinformation, unrelenting negative ads.
• Young Republicans may be tilting away from Trump on certain issues, but the party remains ossified.
• Future leadership will likely remain within the Trump family, absent true insurrection from the party ranks.
• Ultimately, the message: “There is no principle, just personal loyalty” at the heart of 2026’s GOP.

Transcript

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[D]

It's me, Sam Stein, manager at the Bullock. I'm here with jvl and we are breaking in live coverage for this news. Tom Massey, the conservative Kentucky candidate, has he gone? He gone.

[A]

He gone.

[D]

Reportedly not. Apparently reportedly has lost his primary against Ed Gallerin. His challenger is Trump back. Challenger. NBC made the call. Decision desk has made the call. It's, it's, it's done. It's done. And I mean, there's a bunch of takeaways here. But JVL, what's your top line? 1.

[A]

So the, I mean, there's a lot of this is Trump's party, as Lindsey Graham said. But the most interesting thing here is that, so Cassidy, Cassidy voted to impeach Donald Trump, which was an attack on Donald Trump. And so his voters, you know, Republican voters could see that as well. He, he went after Trump.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Massey's big sin was that he was in favor of releasing the Epstein files and that he's against the war in Iran. Now these are two things which Trump supporters ostensibly are on Massey's side of and not Trump's side. Right. If you, if you just wind the clock back and ask Epstein files, all these Republicans are, you know, in, in his Kentucky 4 would be like, oh, oh, gotta release the Epstein files. He said, how do you think we should be holding hands with Israel and attacking Iran? They was his head. What are you talking about? No way. Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And so there's this transubstantiation here where the same people who insist Donald Trump had nothing to do with Epstein are now punishing Thomas Massie because they see his call for the releases of the Epstein files as the attack on Donald Trump.

[D]

It's such a solid.

[A]

That to me is the different thing.

[D]

Yeah, I hadn't even thought about it in those dimensions. But now that you're talking about it like transport yourself back two years, you're a congressional candidate on the Republican side and you're running on a platform that is release the Epstein files, no foreign interventions, deficits out of control and we need to doge the hell out of government. That's Tom Massey, that's Tom Massey and that's Donald Trump. The transgression is that Trump has changed on all those fronts and Tom Massey hasn't. So.

[A]

And the voters did what Trump wanted. Right. I mean that's the other. And the other thing that, I mean it is important to see, like I don't know how close this is going to be. We don't know what the final. We know that it's enough that they were able to call it by like 50% of the returns in.

[D]

Right.

[A]

But Massey is running against a tomato can. I mean it really is, has never won elected office before. He's. He lost like a state senate race. Yeah. He's like 62. He didn't show up at any of the debates. No, I mean, I mean he is a non entity. So it isn't like there was this top tier challenger that they came in, this wildly charismatic guy, knocked him off. It was. This is a pure proxy for Trump, tells you to do a thing for him and the voters just clap like seals and did what Trump demanded just

[D]

to emphasize that point. Like in the past couple days and weeks you have Pete Hegseth going campaign for Galran. I mean kind of unheard of for the, I mean think about it. Actually the Defense Secretary in the middle of a war, like without the.

[A]

I guess the war must be going really great. No, sorry, sorry. In the middle of an excursion.

[D]

Skirmish or an excursion. Yeah, he got, he, he left the Pentagon to go to this Kentucky district and campaign. It's, it's like kind of a remarkable indictment of Pete Hegseth, frankly. And then you had all the other people, you know, Stephen Miller was weighing in on this. Trump himself put out tweet. I'm not. We can actually put the tweet up if we have it. He never goes on Twitter. Trump went on Twitter today to just say this because Tom Massey had been touting a 2022 endorsement. This was the most expensive House primary. I believe in the history of House primaries. I'm just reading some data from Ad Impact, which tracks this stuff. The amount of money spent in supporting Ed Gallerine on ads was $10.9 million. This is a House primary election. The amount of money in Kentucky. There's the tv. The TV rates are nothing. The amount of money spent supporting Tom Massey, it's just support, is 7.6 million. The amount of money spent attacking Tom Massey was 7.9 million. And the amount of money spent attacking a gal Ryan was 6.2 million. Again, in Kentucky, people that. You have to understand, that's like basically buying literally every ad slot and then some in this district. They must have been inundated with ads.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you. I'm sure you could not get through a single puzzle on Wheel of fortune without 15 of these ads. Right. Must have been the old gal lines on the wheel again. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[D]

I mean, well, some of the ads were wild, too. Right. Like we were talking about this one.

[A]

Yeah. So I want to talk about this because I. We should roll the ads. And I would.

[B]

I would.

[A]

I would like to talk about the. God knows if we can get exit polls on something like this. Probably not, but I am interested in. There was some polling showing that. That Massey was doing very, very well with voters under the age of. I forget what it was. Right. It was young voters. I want to say it was like 18 to 40 or something. And that Galrain was. Was killing it. Saddam Hussein numbers with voters over 60. Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And Bill Kristol wrote about this either today or the day before, suggesting that this. This may show that young Republicans are tiring of Trump and looking to move away. I have a different read on that, but I don't want to share it until we've looked at the. The video.

[D]

Which ad do you want to play? So there's the ad. There's the Ed Gallerin attack ad on Massey, and then there's the Massey attack on El Galran. Which one do you want to play first?

[A]

Oh, why don't we do the. I mean, if it's okay with you boys. I don't want you to be driving. You're driving the show. I would say start with the ad, Massie.

[D]

Okay, so let's play the G attack ad against Tom Massie, the thruffle, which is about A Thruffle In D.C. there's a lot I'll just say before we get to this. By the end of the campaign, it was so centered around sex. Like, it was all about sex. It was Wild. Let's play the ad and then we'll get JBL's take on the other side.

[B]

Massie caught in a throttle in Washington. He's cheating with the squad on the America first movement. Massey voted with the squad against Trump's tax cuts. Massey squad against finishing Trump's wall. He voted with them against hiring new border agents. Well, this is worse than adultery.

[A]

How is that legal?

[D]

It shouldn't be. It's all AI and it's insinuating because it's AI, Right?

[A]

I mean, there. Aren't there. I'm asking this. Maybe I should know this, but I don't. But in the same way that you can't run an ad saying the New York Times says that you. You can't make up a fake headline with like, with the New York Times logo on it says the New York Times says that Thomas Massie is actually a lizard person. Right, Right. Because that's not true. The New York Times has never printed that. You couldn't predict.

[B]

But what.

[A]

How is that any different from showing AI generated video purporting to be security camera footage of things which never happened?

[D]

You know, I don't know. I wish I actually knew the answer to that. I mean, if I had to guess, because one is employ. Implying that a secondary entity in this case the New York Times printed something illegal. So the Times would have a case that you, I don't know, slander them or some sort. Some of that. And this is just pure fiction, I will note. Like, this is. This is our future, basically. If you've been following the Spencer Pratt mayoral race, it's literally all AI generated ads, like fake moms at a yoga studio talking about Spencer and Pratt. And this is just people. There used to be a little bit of sort of anxiety and, and, and, you know, skepticism around doing this type of thing. Like, why would you do that? You can't. And now they've just ripped off the band aid. But we're going afield. So your point about.

[A]

Hold on. Before, before we go afield.

[D]

Oh, you want to do the other one?

[A]

I want to do small. No small digression, and ask you, should this be illegal? Because our friend Andrew Weissman has a book out this week, ding, ding, ding. And I mean, his, his big idea is that in the same way that we have all sorts of restrictions on speech around the idea of fraud, Right. The guys from Enron were not allowed to just say whatever they want about the company and have it be protected speech. Right? They were. They were committing fraud. And there are Plenty of other realms in which you can't say just anything. It's not protected speech to do and should it. Doesn't this feel a little bit like fraud to you?

[D]

It does, but let me paint a.

[A]

Making a video of things which didn't happen.

[D]

Let me. Let me. Let me do the sort of, like, the lawyerly thing where I give you the counter example.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Let's say that Ev Gallerine hired a Tomasi lookalike, like someone who literally just resembled the guy, and did an ad featuring him walking around and doing Crazy Around Kentucky and never had some disclaimer, but, like, kind of insinuated that that was Massey. Never said it wasn't. Would that be illegal?

[A]

I mean, I don't.

[D]

I wish we had a lawyer here, honestly.

[A]

As long as it has something like, you know, actor portrayal. Right. Or.

[D]

Right, right.

[A]

You know, like in the way that when you're watching a History channel and they're showing you video, it's not bad for.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, wait a minute. Actually, how do they have cameras back then? Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

This is. I mean, it just looks like security camera footage. I know, right?

[D]

There's something very fraudulent about it. And I do wonder. God, we should have had Weissman on this. He would. He would know. Like, I don't know. All right, let's get back to the actual meat of it, though, beyond the legality of it. So do you want to play. Let's play the Massey attack egg? Because I want to just go through that. This is the Massey attack, which was not AI so much as just pure anti Semitism and anti homophobia.

[A]

Anti gay, too.

[D]

Yeah. Anti gay homophobia and anti Semitism. Let's play it.

[C]

L. Ryne is bought and paid for by the LGBTQ mafia. Far left trans activist billionaire. Paul Singer is bringing his trans madness to Kentucky Sing is spending millions to remove Massie. The gay mafia will own Woke Eddie.

[D]

Now, I want to be clear. I don't know if that was actually

[A]

a rainbow star, David. Right. Yeah.

[D]

Caught. I caught him an ad. I was like, that's not subtle, I don't think. I just want to be clear. I'm not totally sure that was that Massey campaign ad, but it was by a group who was. Campaign. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, like, what's your. What do you divide.

[A]

Paul Singer is a right wing billionaire.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Not a. Not a left wing billionaire. Again, for. For people who are not plugged into this stuff. Paul Singer is not a left winger. He is a right winger who supports Republican candidates and right wing candidates. He is super pro Israel. Like, that's true.

[D]

And he did, but everything. Well, he did also. He was also a big funder of the lgbt, of, of gay rights causes from the Republican perspective. And that obviously was referenced in this. All right, so like, you, you, you wanted to set these up because you had some larger point about the issues and the generational divides here. But what was it?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, my. So what Bill said, said, said, hey, you know, if this split is real and if younger Republicans are going with Massey, then maybe this is a sign that, like, hey, they're not sold on Trump and the foreign wars and all. I'm sorry, I think it's actually just anti Semitism. So I think what, what it is, is, is that the position of Israel in the mind of the American public, especially over the last few months, has shifted so radically.

[D]

Right.

[A]

That you may get old boomers who are watching Fox News who are Republican voters who are still cool with Israel and don't care and are gonna, you know, they'll, they'll vote with whoever, but younger Republican voters. I think that that is a huge danger sign. And one of the things that I would be, if I was a young Republican on the make, who, who is looking at the post Trump future, I think the future of the Republican Party is coming at the America first movement and the Trump people basically from like the anti apac. Right. Because I think that's where all the energy is.

[D]

I don't think you're wrong. Like, you see it when Marjorie Taylor Greene speaks out now at any point, Lauren Boebert to a degree too obviously Tucker and Candace, but that's like more overtly anti Semitic. And you do see a lot of it. When you actually dive into some of the replies to JD Vance whenever he does a public speech, it's like, hey, you sold out. Right? Like, and you're, you're not shilling for apac. I'd be very curious. And I don't, I'm not sure if I am totally bought into the idea that this was the main driver for their votes. Although if it's generational, you might be right about that. Ultimately, my Occam's raiser explanation is just like, this is a proxy on Trump and if you like Trump, you're going to vote against Tom Massey. And that's it. Let's take a quick break because on the other side, I do want to talk about what this means for the future of elected Republicans currently, because we do have seven months left until these guys are actually thrown out of office. So there's some interesting things that could happen in those seven months. But first we need to take a break and get a word in from a sponsor listening to the show for a while. You already know how much I love Souls out of Office THC Gummies and their sparkling beverages. Now they've launched something new just in time for the Summer Mood Gummies Soul is a wellness brand that makes delicious hemp derived CBD and THC products designed to make feeling good simple. Sol's new Mood Gummies have precise dosing, clean ingredients and formulations designed for predictable effects. So you can choose how you want to feel while staying in control. And let me tell you, staying in control kind of important. Instead of having a drink, you can take their Uplift Gummies for the perfect buzz for a night out. Or when you're just winding down, take their Mellow Gummies for fully unplugging. My personal favorite is the Soul's Balance Gummies, the perfect one to take when you're just listening to your favorite podcast. That's why I take so many of them. I'm always listening to Bowler Takes. Whatever the moment, there's a Soul Mood gummy to match. Make today a good day and get yourself some soul gummies. Right now, Soul is offering our audience 30% off your entire order. Go to get soul.com and use code bulwark takes. That's get soul.com promo code bulwark takes for 30% off. Get soul folks. Gotta get those gummies. I will note the other there's another election happening tonight in Georgia, a bunch of elections in Georgia. And one of the races that I was watching is the GOP primary for the governor's nomination. And people might remember the name Brad Raffensperger who was the Secretary of State who stood up to Donald Trump in 2002. Or sorry, 20 not looking well. He is like way behind. So to that point he ran on

[A]

the Republican side, right?

[D]

He did.

[A]

He might have been, yeah. Duncan, Jeff Duncan did go to the

[D]

Democrats and he's not doing well either, to be honest.

[A]

Not doing well.

[D]

No. All right. So something happened. So you mentioned Cassidy at the top and and for the folks who forgot this weekend because a ton of news has happened since then, Bill Cassidy lost his primary. He finished third in this jungle primary in Louisiana. So he is a lame duck incumbent and he came back to the Senate today and he got an applause from his caucus and then he went on and he voted for the Iran War Powers Resolution. He had not voted for that. This go Run. He had voted for thinking like 2020 or something like that, but he had been against doing it up until today. Now that he is liberated and doesn't have to worry about Donald Trump. He also said he's against the ballroom funding.

[A]

Country first.

[D]

Yeah, exactly. He's against the $1 billion ballroom funding he announced today. He didn't announce that before he lost. So we got a bit of a live wire. I'm not expecting much, but there's clear evidence already that he's kind of done with it. And for seven months he doesn't really give a. And frankly. We'll see. We'll see.

[A]

Maybe you can explain this to me.

[D]

Sure.

[A]

But I have been continually shocked by the lack of vindictiveness in the Republican caucus over the last 10 years.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

You, you have people whose entire careers are ended by Donald Trump, who. Donald Trump just like, beats the living crap out of them. And at the end they're like, well, I'm still Republican. Still Republican. And I just think about, like, if this was a gang, right? If this was Sons of Anarchy or west side Story, right? And you're, you're, you're a Jet, right? You're the best you can get. One day a new guy comes in and takes over the jets, and he looks and he's like, you. You're out. Hate you. You're the worst. And the guys go, and they just curb stomp you and they beat you, right? And you're tossed out of the gang. Nobody is spiteful and says, well, I'm going over to the Sharks and we're going to kick your ass. Right? They just lie there and say, guys, we take you back.

[D]

You know, that is not even.

[A]

They won't be taken back. Right?

[D]

Well, let's play it out. Let's play it out. Because it's an interesting proposition. It actually is a really fascinating proposition. John Cornyn, who lost Trump's endorsement day and will be basically beat by Ken Paxton, a total crook. And everyone realizes Ken Paxton is a lunatic crook and should not be in the Senate. But most of them are just going to go along. But you got John Cornyn, you got Thom Tillis, who also was knocked undone by Donald Trump. You have Bill Cassidy, who lost because of Donald Trump. That's three right there. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Is there fourth? That has, I mean, Collins is still up, Murkowski still holding on. McConnell. There's McConnell. There's four right there. That if they really wanted to band together, could in theory, just kind of create this pact and basically use it as A leverage point. And it's not an insignificant leverage point either. Right. Like you need four to get to 51 for Democrats. They're there and they could stick it to Trump. They have nothing to hold on to. They're all basically done in elected office. So.

[A]

But what would you do?

[D]

So let's say you have four. What do you do with that? Four.

[A]

I mean, fuck, I would switch control

[D]

of the Senate based caucus.

[A]

That's because I'm a vindictive. Right. I mean I look at this and I'm like, you know me. No, you. Right. In these, they are.

[D]

With conditions. They're gonna need conditions. Right. They're gonna. You have to, you can't just do liberal policy. They would need something.

[A]

Well, you can't get any liberal policy through anyway. Right. It's just really. You know what, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna all your up. You think you're gonna confirm a bunch of judges? No. You're not confirming anybody for the next few months. Right? Right. You think you're going to pass your stupid ballroom? You're not passing anything. We're going to, we're going to start holding hearings in the Senate on Iran tomorrow. Right, Right. This, this year. Slush fund. We're going to call witnesses tomorrow because we are. There's a new majority in control of the Senate judiciary or whoever. Right. Pick a committee. And I just. Yeah, you have subpoena power. Right. And you can start investigating, you could start investing. Call witnesses on Epstein.

[D]

Sure.

[A]

And I just look at this and Sarah's theory is that they just don't want the trouble when they go back home because they're going to be at Kroger or they're going to be at the country club and they don't want their old Republican friends to look and be like, why'd you make so much trouble? Why'd you make trouble? Why'd you gotta rock the boat? I just look at that and I think to myself, you people want to be liked too much. What's up baby?

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[A]

I mean, the world, I don't know, Like, I just, where's the house of cards mentality? Where is the, like, you know, I'm a, I'm a US Senator, you know, I'm not going to take guff from no one. And instead these guys are all cowards. They're really cowards.

[D]

I wonder if it's the country club that the country club conversations they're worried about versus, like legitimate fear factor of crazy MAGA folks coming at them. I mean, I don't think that's insignificant, right?

[A]

I don't know, maybe I never lived in Kentucky, maybe down in the holler. I mean, I watch Justified. I never, never lived in the Holler,

[D]

but I did watch Justified.

[A]

Maybe Walton Goggins is going to come out. I don't know. Do you have any sympathy for Massey on this stuff? Because here's my question. Because my question for you is I get torn a lot between the. Oh yeah, see, we were right all along, right? Your career is torched now too, motherfucker. And I get torn between that and well, he did the right thing and he did stand up Trump on the Epstein stuff and welcome to the coalition. Welcome to the resistance. I mean, he's not going to join the resistance, you know.

[D]

No, but I don't expect him to join the dishes. I guess my, my life should be good enough.

[A]

What should be good enough?

[D]

What is the.

[A]

Enough of the half a loaf for us, Sam? Tell me, talk me off the ledger.

[D]

So I, I was, I think, I think it's Tim I was talking about this with. But like my line really comes down to did you go down trying to appease Trump and face planning and looking like a, you know, CHUD or whatever? Or did you do what Massey did and, you know, just basically principle it out and, you know, you lost. Like there's more Liz Cheney and Massey, I suppose than there is in like Bill, Bill Cassidy. To me, like, that is about the worst you can do. I mean, what, Bill Cassidy, to me, what he did was unforgivable. Right? Like he went and he, a doctor voted for RFK Jr. Concocted all these fake promises that RFK Jr. Had made to him that he sure was going to happen, and then lost anyway in a humiliating fashion. I have, like, no sympathy for that. I don't. I, I just, nothing about that was a profile encourage. At least with Massey. He was, you know, he knew what he was going to do. He's gonna get him in trouble. He did it anyway. And then he said, you know, I'm just gonna keep doing it. And, and I do have, I do. I find that way more admirable. And yeah, he's not going to be a resistance person, but Tomas, he's never, was never going to be a resistance person. He's going to do, you know, Tomasi things after this or he'll just disappear like a lot of these people do. Right. A lot of people just go off in the distance and we never hear from them again. So, yeah, I think you look just like, like Justin Amash. Where's Justin Amash these days? Right.

[A]

Where's Justin Amash? Yeah, he'll apply to the compensation fund. Yeah,

[D]

he was, I feel like he, he might deserve, he might be more deserved than some of these.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Definitely has gotten his fair share of weaponized administration against him. All right, before we, we close this out, a couple things. One is the commenters are wondering, can Tom Massey run as an independent? Our boy, Matt Marshall, our producer of the show, he says the candidate filing deadline ends on June 2nd. I'm no expert on Kentucky law, but if that's the case, I guess he could. We'll see if he does. What's the next. But my question for you to close that is, what's the next seven months look like here? Like, you know, obviously I think we're at a place where anyone who wants a future in Republican politics at this point knows you can't cross Trump ever, because you're more likely than not to lose. And yet we're also at a place where a semi reasonable number of Republicans have lost because of Trump and are still holding office. So what does the next seven months look like?

[A]

So by, I mean, my theory on this is largely shaped by 2018. And the, you know, 2018 was the moment where in any other circumstance, the Republican Party would have started cutting loose from Donald Trump. Right. I mean, those losses were enormous.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And instead they went the other direction. Right. And so I, you know, I had thought my theory going in 2018 was, oh, well, this will be the tipping point, at which point Republicans hop off board. But it turns out the tipping point actually come much earlier and it had tipped the other direction. Republicans were just all the way bought in. And I think it's going to be very.

[D]

What was the tipping point that came earlier?

[A]

I think it was the actual November 2016. I mean, after Trump was elected, they all just decided, we're in for a penny, in for a pound.

[D]

Okay, hold on.

[A]

And I did not realize that.

[D]

Tom Massey speaking. Maybe let's take a listen to him quickly, if we can.

[B]

Younger demographic. You are, you are patriots and you will inherit this country and you will make it better. And I am hopeful because of that. Thank you. We. We accidentally. I think I accidentally. I meant, didn't mean to do this. It started out as an election and it turned into a movement.

[D]

We,

[B]

I mean, I think, I think people, if you're not, if you're not tired of politics, if you're not jaded, if you're not cynical and so many people are, you know, the people that, you know, want somebody that'll go along to get along. I've never heard of that strategy, but that seems to be what the voters want. That's what's been promised to them. But not the young voters. I mean, we stirred up something. There is a yearning in this country for somebody who will vote for principals over party. You all, you all don't like bullies and you don't tolerate them, and I love you for it. You also, yeah, they couldn't listen. Hey, If I'd known this speech, if I known this speech was going to be this fun to give, I would have come out 15 minutes sooner. Look, for 14, for 14 years, those SOBs in Washington tried to buy my vote. They, they couldn't buy it. Why did this, why did the race get so expensive? Because they decided to, to buy the seat and it, and it got really expensive for him. Look, they used, they used a lot of dirty tricks, but we stayed the course. We did not, we didn't bend a knee. We didn't throw a foul ball. We didn't do any of those things. We didn't kneecap anybody. There were, we had lots of opportunities to try a lot of stuff like that, and we never did it. We ran a clean race. Hey, and there's, by the way, after 18 months of blacking, of a blackout, of not letting me on Fox, they finally let me on FOX today, four hours into the election. Hey, hey, Their, their slop, their slop is selling. So they'll keep selling it. But, but listen, I got to watch FOX also for the first time in 18 months. And there was the president talking about, by the way, while gas is almost $5 and diesel's almost 6, they're talking about this big ballroom they're going to build. And it looks like. It looks like ro. The Roman empire. Architecture from the Roman Empire. I see a few analogies there, and people are just trying to make ends meet. But we were promised that Miriam Adelson would pay for that ballroom, but she.

[A]

Little Adelson.

[B]

There you go.

[D]

Jpl.

[B]

They. She spent so much money in this race, they're going to have to reduce the footprint of that thing. But here's one thing I saw on Fox. They were saying, oh, my goodness, you know, we're ready for war. There's about this. We're about to restart this war. We were supposed to restart this war today, but we can't restart this war today. The war can't start today. They said we got away today. And now then it. It like it occurred to me. Where was the Secretary of War yesterday? He was here. Listen. Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, look on the. Look on the bright side. No more wars. No more wars. No more wars. No more wars. Guys, knock that off. You're gonna make me feel good about losing. What I wanted to do was give you all credit. When they saw the influencers here, they panicked. They sent the Secretary of War here, and you stopped the war for a day. All right, we know we don't want a war. And we know why young people are and, you know, middle aged people are against the next war because we'd be the ones fighting it. They're trying to bring back the draft. Screw that. We're not. We're not gonna fight. We're not gonna fight some other country's wars, are we? No.

[D]

Damn.

[B]

What else. What else do we stand for? Not. We don't want to send our money

[A]

over some other country.

[B]

Okay, I'll go. I've got a bill to do that. I've also got a bill to end the ED in the Department of Education. Rand Paul says he wants to pass a law that you need one day to read 10 pages of every bill. I asked Rand, what are you going to do about my bill? That's one sentence long to end the Department of Education. That'd be like 5 minutes to read that bill, by the way. You know how many pages the Epstein files Transparency act was?

[A]

2 pages.

[B]

We don't want. We know. We're tired of meddling overseas. We can't afford it. Our empire will collapse if we kept sending our money to other countries. I never picked a fight with the country that's tried to take me out here because I've never. But I've never voted for foreign aid to any country. We got to take care of America first. America First. America First. America First. America First. America first. America first. America First. By the way, there was. You remember that organization that Klaus Schwab started called the World Economic Forum? He said they said you should eat bugs. Do you want to eat bugs? They said you'll own nothing and be happy about it. You want to do that? Well, guess what happened. Guess what happened to Klaus's CEO. He was in the Epstein files. He had to resign. We took out, we took out the CEO of the World Economic Forum with a two page bill. What else? What else are we for? Look, I. For years I've been standing up for the second Amendment, the First Amendment, fourth Amendment, the fifth Amendment, the tenth Amendment. I just realized the seventh Amendment is under attack. Is because I serve on the Judiciary Committee. The seventh Amendment is your right to a jury trial. They've taken it away for vaccines. If you get hurt, you can't sue for vaccines. They're trying to, to take it away for pesticides. They're trying to take it away for these data centers. No, We've been, we've been fighting that back. So that's part of, that's an amendment that frankly I didn't think I was going to have to fight for, but I've been fighting for it in D.C. and we need to keep fighting for the seventh amendment too. They want, these corporations want get out of court free cards. We're not going to give them one. What else is part of our coalition cutting Doge, cutting spending. They, they ran, they ran Doge out of town. Elon Musk found out it was easier to land a rocket backwards. It was easier to get a car to drive itself. It was easier to put Internet back on Antarctica than it was to cut $100 of spending in Washington D.C. it's a tough problem, but we're not going to give up on that either. Maha? Is anybody here for Maha? Does anybody want to eat poison? Do you want the government telling you what to eat? Do you want the government telling you to put a needle in your ar? I don't either. That's why I've been fighting all of that stuff. We need food freedom. We need medical freedom. We need all of those freedoms.

[D]

All right, we can keep monitoring this for a little bit, but let's just. If something happens of note, we'll go Back to there. But I think we get the gist. You were pressured, man. A lot of, a lot of Israel references there.

[A]

So here's the thing. There is a coherent platform here, right? And it is, it is a melding of the Maha stuff, the anti vax stuff, anti Israel stuff, anti corporate stuff. And I mean, they're, you know, you've got Marjorie Taylor Greene, you've got Massey, you've got Tucker. If somebody were to really try to project that forward, because right now it's all just sort of flopping around on the ground, right? It's, it's like a, you know, three fish out of water. But if somebody were to say, like, no, we're gonna make a run directly at Trump in the magas with this. That's interesting.

[D]

Yeah, but what is it? What does it get you that in a nickel, man?

[A]

Well, that's.

[D]

What does it get?

[A]

Well, that's the question, right? So you start that on, you know, in 20 January of 2027, right? And the idea is, look at this. The socialists are in control of the House and the John Thune is just as bad. And look what Trump did. Look what gases. We need to reform the reform, right? I mean, now I don't think there's enough juice there because I don't think any of this stuff is principled. I think all of the MAGA stuff is really about is he hurting the people I hate? Yeah, that's what I think the heart of MAGA is it, doesn't it?

[D]

But doesn't it? Sure. But doesn't it come down to like, I think this sort of elephant in the room, the kind of big unknown here is, is Trump going to be. How long is Trump going to be vindictive for? Right. Like in theory, he's done in 2028. Okay, so like, what does that look like when he's not in office? Assuming he's not in office.

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[A]

I mean, a, I don't assume it, and B, I. I know I'm insane here. I cannot foresee a universe in which Trump does not see himself as the big boss of the whole world so long as he draws breath.

[D]

He's proven in his successor's Medvedev his

[A]

right, or his successor is Don Jr. Right. I mean, this is the. The clearest way for that to be is for it to be Don Jr. Which is why, again, I'm sorry, I just. I still think that there will be a lot of. I think the most likely person to be the Republican nominee in 2028 will have the last name Trump.

[D]

I don't dis. I think Don Jr's prospects are wildly underrated as the next nominee. Wildly underrated? I mean, barely gets talked about. And it's very hard to see Trump suddenly being like, you know what? I really like jd. I know you've been writing about it. Don't worry, you can give your kudos.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you. You deserve me on the head, Sam.

[D]

Okay, There you go. It's very hard to see him being like, oh, Yeah, I like J.D. i'm fine with G.D. or Rubio. Like, no, it just doesn't really compete with his character. It's. It's wild to think that he can, as a lame duck at 37% approval, have this much say over everyone's behavior, but he does. I know.

[A]

This is the thing, right?

[D]

This is.

[A]

This is why, again, I ultimately don't think that an America first challenger can win, but I'd be interested in it because part of me does wonder, well, is there any principle in any of this?

[D]

No. That's the lesson from this.

[A]

I really think there isn't.

[D]

That's the entire lesson from this. Right. It's like, it doesn't matter. If there were principle in it, as we discussed at the top, Massie would have been totally fine here. Everything, Every transgression Massey made was something Trump himself had stated he publicly wanted.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

It's all. It's so. It's principle less. There's nothing about it that involves principle. It is literally. Does he perceive you as his former enemy? I wish. It's, like, gone under Appreciated. But the idea that he went out of his way, Trump, to say let's, let's get rid of Lauren Boebert, whose primary had passed that, I mean, it's just wild to me. These people are not like moderates at all, that their transgression is the Epstein files. That's it.

[A]

And, but the other lesson of this, and I know we want to wrap up, I don't know if you remember, Lauren Boebert was pushed out of her district in Colorado because there are a bunch of very, very respectable conservative Republicans who thought that, well, she's a joke. And so they went and got Jeff Heard, I think, to run. And so Boebert switched districts and Jeff heard the good Republican guy was going to push back against Trump because he was a normal Republican. And it turns out actually Lauren Boebert was much more independent than Jeff Heard was. Jeff Heard has just rubber stamped everything that, that Trump has asked because he's a normie. And there is a lesson in all this. And my, my belief is that the true believers, like the few people who are not in on the joke but who believed all of this stuff, they'll be the ones that get off the boat. And the supposedly respectable Republicans who, who are absolutely in on the joke and who don't believe in any of this stuff and who regard Trump as a boar and a clown and all this stuff, those guys will not get off until the Titanic is six feet underwater.

[D]

Well, it makes me back to, it brings me back to your great MTG piece whenever it was that she was resigning from office about, you know, she needed something to believe in and throughout her life. And CrossFit was one of those things. And then Trumpism was one of those things. And then, and you know when you wake up, you're like, oh, my God, it's all sort of a joke. It has to be very jarring emotionally for you. And so like, the true believers are the ones who are going to be like, yeah, what is, what's going on here?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And yeah, it sucks. This fucking shit sucks. All right, buddy, I'm going to wrap it up there. Thank you for doing this. For those folks watching, thank you for watching us. Tom Massey, as we noted, has lost his primary. Just another day in Trumpland where retribution is the currency of the day. Subscribe to Bulwark Takes. Subscribe to the Bulwark. We got a show coming up if you're in San Diego tomorrow night. Bulwark takes bulwark.com events if you want last minute tickets till then, JVL take care bud.

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