Breaking: Trump & Vance Pick Nauseating Fight With Zelensky

Summary

Bulwark Takes Episode Summary

Title: Breaking: Trump & Vance Pick Nauseating Fight With Zelensky
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Release Date: February 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein, Will South, and JVL delve into a highly charged and unprecedented confrontation that unfolded in the Oval Office. The episode titled "Breaking: Trump & Vance Pick Nauseating Fight With Zelensky" examines the heated exchange between former President Donald Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. The discussion provides a comprehensive analysis of the implications of this encounter for U.S.-Ukraine relations and American foreign policy.

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Overview of the Confrontation

The episode opens with Sam Stein describing the dramatic meeting in the Oval Office where President Trump and Vice President Vance engaged in a contentious dialogue with President Zelenskyy. Stein highlights the central issue: a proposed deal involving the U.S. acquiring rights to Ukrainian minerals and raw earth in exchange for security guarantees to support Ukraine against Russian aggression.

Notable Quote:

Sam Stein [00:00]: "This may have been the most extraordinary, some might say reckless, some might say embarrassing moment that we've seen in recent Oval Office history."

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Historical Context: Ukraine's Nuclear Legacy and U.S. Guarantees

JVL provides essential background on Ukraine's nuclear capabilities post-Cold War. Ukraine once possessed approximately 1,900 nuclear warheads inherited from the Soviet era. However, in 1994, Ukraine surrendered these weapons in exchange for a security guarantee from the United States, firmly embedding U.S.-Ukraine relations within the framework of international security agreements.

Notable Quote:

JVL [03:30]: "Nobody seems to remember this, but at the close of the Cold War, Ukraine was in possession of 1,900 nuclear warheads... We signed a guarantee of Ukrainian sovereignty and security against aggression."

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Analysis of Trump and Vance's Behavior

The hosts express profound disappointment and concern over the conduct of Trump and Vance during the meeting. They characterize the exchange as a display of disrespect towards both Zelenskyy and the strategic alliance between the U.S. and Ukraine. The discussion underscores how Vance escalated the confrontation, prompting Trump to join in, thereby undermining the dignity of the U.S. presidency.

Notable Quotes:

JVL [03:45]: "The most shameful moment in American history of my lifetime, I think."

Sam Stein [09:31]: "It made me cringe watching it happen. He was just attacking Zelensky... It diminished the office incredibly."

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The Staged Nature of the Confrontation

Will South and JVL argue that the altercation was premeditated, orchestrated by Trump and Vance to create a narrative that paints Zelenskyy in a negative light. They suggest that this was a propaganda effort aimed at shifting American public opinion against Ukraine by depicting Zelenskyy as ungrateful and undermining the established U.S. commitment to Ukrainian sovereignty.

Notable Quotes:

Will South [07:49]: "This was not Zelensky staging an attack. This was Trump and Vance staging an attack on Zelensky."

Sam Stein [13:14]: "The White House was gearing up for it and it was Vance who instigated the blow up."

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Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy

The hosts critically assess the broader implications of the confrontation, positing that it signifies a troubling shift in U.S. foreign policy from a reliable ally to a transactional and potentially adversarial partner. They argue that Trump's preference for engaging with leaders like Vladimir Putin over supporting allies such as Ukraine reflects a move away from moral diplomacy towards self-serving interests.

Notable Quotes:

Will South [14:25]: "It's transactional. Donald Trump is as happy to stand with a dictator who has cards... as he is to stand with Ukraine."

JVL [18:17]: "America is no longer not just a reliable partner, America is now a potential adversary."

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Reactions and Conclusions

The episode concludes with the hosts lamenting the current state of American leadership and its impact on international relations. They emphasize the importance of recognizing and resisting propaganda efforts that seek to undermine established alliances. The hosts advocate for a renewed focus on American interests aligned with global stability and prosperity, cautioning against the erosion of the Pax Americana.

Notable Quotes:

Will South [21:04]: "They want you to believe that Zelenskyy is ungrateful... That is a lie."

JVL [23:09]: "I weep for America."

Sam Stein [23:56]: "This was unbelievable. It was really unreal to see the Oval Office turn into this."

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Conclusion

Bulwark Takes provides a thorough and critical examination of the fraught encounter between Trump, Vance, and Zelenskyy, contextualizing it within the broader narrative of U.S. foreign policy and international relations. The hosts articulate a clear stance against the perceived erosion of American diplomatic integrity and the manipulation of international alliances for personal or political gain. This episode serves as a somber reflection on the challenges facing U.S. leadership and the imperative to uphold democratic values and strategic alliances.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sam Stein [00:00]: "This may have been the most extraordinary... embarrassing moment..."
• JVL [03:30]: "Ukraine was in possession of 1,900 nuclear warheads..."
• JVL [03:45]: "The most shameful moment in American history..."
• Sam Stein [09:31]: "It made me cringe watching it happen..."
• Will South [07:49]: "This was not Zelensky staging an attack..."
• Will South [14:25]: "It's transactional..."
• JVL [18:17]: "America is now a potential adversary."
• Will South [21:04]: "They want you to believe that Zelenskyy is ungrateful..."
• JVL [23:09]: "I weep for America."
• Sam Stein [23:56]: "This was unbelievable..."

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the Bulwark Takes episode, providing readers with an in-depth understanding of the discussed events, the hosts' analyses, and the broader implications for U.S. foreign policy.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys. Me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark, joined by Will south and jvl. We are coming to you, really, just minutes after what I think may have been the most extraordinary, some might say reckless, some might say embarrassing moment that we've seen in recent Oval Office history, if ever. President Trump with members of the Cabinet, including Vice President J.D. vance, meeting with President Zelensky. And the issue is what to do about the future of US Ukrainian relations. We're going to get into. We're going to play the full video because I think it's worth watching in full and we're going to talk about it. Obviously, before that, let's ask you kindly to subscribe to our YouTube feed. All right, so that's the setup. Let's play the full video. I just want to be clear. They are sitting in the Oval. The issue is this deal for the US to get some rights to Ukrainian minerals and raw earth. As Trump kept saying, raw earth in exchange for some sort of security guarantee that involves US Help for Ukraine fighting against Russian forces. It started tense and then it just completely went off the rails. Let's play the video and we'll come back on the other side and we'll talk about it.

[J.D. Vance]

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

Yes, but if you.

[J.D. Vance]

Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for bringing into this conference.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

[J.D. Vance]

I have been to come once. I've actually watched and seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour. Mr. President, do you disagree that you've had problems? What, bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning.

[J.D. Vance]

Sure.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless.

[Donald Trump]

You don't know that.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

God bless. God bless. You will not have war.

[Donald Trump]

Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve A problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

I'm not telling you because you're in.

[Donald Trump]

No position to dictate that.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

Remember this.

[Donald Trump]

You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good, you're.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

Going to feel influenced.

[Donald Trump]

We're going to feel very good and very strong.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

You will feel influenced.

[Donald Trump]

You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

Very bad beginning and he happens to.

[Donald Trump]

Be right about it.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

From the very beginning of the war.

[Donald Trump]

You'Re not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now with us. You start having cars right now. You don't miss a brother. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War Three. You're gambling with World War Three. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. I'm far more than a lot of people said they should have.

[J.D. Vance]

Have you said thank you once a lot of times? No. You said even today you went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the President who's trying to save your country.

[Sam Stein]

All right, so that was a situation I don't think any of us have ever seen before. A remarkable alarming moment. Jvl, what were your initial thoughts? Watching that.

[JVL]

It made me want to throw up. The most shameful moment in American history of my lifetime, I think. And a sign that America is ruled by an autocrat. I want to unpack a couple things here real quick. Just off the very top. Nobody seems to remember this, but at the close of the Cold War, Ukraine was in possession of 1,900 nuclear warheads. They had one of the largest stockpiles of nuclear arms in the entire world. They did not directly control them because they were Soviet controlled warheads that were stationed there during the last days of the Soviet Union. But you know, like the Ukrainian people are pretty resourceful and holding on to 1,900 nuclear warheads is a pretty fucking valuable card to have, if we're talking about cards. They chose to gave them up to give them up. Why did Ukraine choose to give up these warheads? Because in 1994 the United States of America signed a guarantee of Ukrainian sovereignty and security against aggression. We, we had a deal. We had a fucking deal with these people already. And, and we, we convinced them to give up their nuclear warheads. And we did. And now all of a sudden, that's just gone. And the other thing, the idea that Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Ukraine has not expressed gratitude that Zelenskyy came to America. He stood in the well of the Senate and spoke to the entire nation and expressed to every individual American the gratitude that coursed through the hearts of every single Ukrainian.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

I hope my words of respect and gratitude resonate in each American heart. Madam Vice President, I thank you for your efforts in helping Ukraine.

[JVL]

And this obsession with J.D. vance and Donald Trump with gratitude, it betrays an absolute confusion, although maybe it's not confusion over what is the state. The state to them is Donald Trump. And so what needs to be expressed is gratitude. Not to the American people, not to the Congress, not to whoever happens to be president in 2023, but to Donald Trump himself. And having Zelensky having. Here's the key thing. Zelensky having expressed gratitude to Congress when Trump was not president is worse than not counting. He views that as a betrayal. And that we are led by this man who does all of this in our names is. It is shameful. And it makes me feel deep, deep shame to be in America because we own this. Doesn't matter how much we disagree with it or how, you know, how angry it makes us, we own this. And it's horrible.

[Sam Stein]

And will. I mean, it seems like from my vantage point, you know, everything about this seems scripted to me. I mean, they wanted to have this confrontation. From the moment Zelensky stepped out of his motorcade, Trump was mocking his appearance. They sounded down right next to Vance. It seemed like they wanted to have Vance play the role of attack jog. And then Trump couldn't help it because he wanted to then get in on the act and attack him too. Um, and notably. And this just came on as we were recording, Trump's now put out a statement in which essentially he said, there's not going to be any deal with the Ukrainians. It reads in part, I've determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace in America. Peace if America is involved. Because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He disrespected the off United States of America and the chairs for office. He can come back when he is ready for peace. You don't put out a statement like that unless you have a predetermined outcome. That's my view of it will.

[Will South]

Correct. Correct. And the rest of it dovetails with that analysis. Just for folks who haven't seen a lot of these events where a foreign dignitary comes in and sits with the president, the Vice President of the United States never does. Never does what J.D. vance just did, ever. For folks who haven't seen the whole thing before Vance steps in, Zelenskyy is making the point just to extend what JBL said about the 1994 agreement. Zelenskyy is saying, look, in 2000, was it 1314, there was another deal with Putin, which Putin also reneged on. Donald Trump is asking Zelensky to take Putin's word for it, whatever he signs. Right. And Donald Trump is explicitly. Even Even though Ukraine is agreeing to give us mineral wealth. Right. Because we're now an empire that just steals things. Even though Zelensky is offering that to us, Trump is not offering security guarantees. And Zelenskyy was just making the point. Can I please, I like just the most basic thing. Can I have this in return? So this prompts the attack from Vance. Vance is the one who escalates this. And then Trump comes in on Vance's side. And, Sam, with your point about the statement being prepared, that just dovetails. This was not Zelensky staging an attack. This was Trump and Vance staging an attack on Zelensky.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. And, you know, to me, Van, I have come to expect this stuff from Trump, and I should probably expect him from Vance, too. But to me, Vance's role here was the. It made me cringe watching it happen. He's there, he's just sitting, attacking Zielinski. Zelensky rightfully calls him out, says, you've never been to my country. Never been to my country. Like, who are you to lecture me? And Vance. Vance responds by saying, you know, don't raise your office.

[JVL]

He says, please, please come to my.

[Sam Stein]

Please come in. And Vance says something like, you know, how dare you litigate this in front of the press? And I love this part. Sebastian, I don't know if we can play this video, but Vance, clearly smarting at all this stuff and thinking he's just, you know, doing so great, scolds Zelensky and then gets scolded by Trump and just does a complete 180. I don't know if we can play that clip, can we?

[J.D. Vance]

There are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media. When you're wrong, we know that you're wrong.

[Donald Trump]

But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on here. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long.

[Sam Stein]

You're right, sir. You're right, sir. I mean that. I know I'm joking about a laughing advance, but it's a disgraceful act on his behalf. And I just couldn't believe watching him do that. It just diminished the office incredibly. And then he's. He's like a podcast host. He's just a podcast host. A glorified podcast host to me. But I don't know. Jvl, any more thoughts on Vance here and the role he played?

[JVL]

I mean, Vance is a despicable human being, just an absolute garbage human being. And I.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

The.

[JVL]

The level of contempt that every honorable person should hold for J.D. vance, I think is boundless. And for him to. Again, there's. There's simply no point for him to be there. Except that this was a coordinated hit, right? This entire thing, as Will says, was a coordinated hit. And we were going to talk about this. I think Sebastian mentioned this before, is there has been a strain of, oh, you know, boy, Zelinsky didn't play it right, right? It's. Why are you making me hit you? Why are you making me hit you? Right? And the, you know, if Zelinsky had only been. Been a little more subtle and understood that he really needed to butter up. That's the way you manage Donald Trump. Donald Trump has no agency. He's a wild dog. And you just. And that is incorrect, I think, analysis, because Zelenskyy absolutely did try to manage Trump.

[Sam Stein]

People forget the transition. He came in.

[JVL]

He came in and he worked very hard. He was very complimentary. And they had that little brief press conference standing there together, and he was like, you know, oh, Mr. President, I hope we are a little better friends to you than Russians. It is very clear that this entire thing was premeditated and that they were going to have a confrontation with Zelensky today. And there is nothing Zelensky could have done here. I just simply cannot accept that Zelensky had somehow showed more belly or something that he could have turned this. Trump wanted this because, again, Donald Trump is on Vladimir Putin's side.

[Sam Stein]

I want to just read the press pool that just came out. That gets to the staged element of this. I'm. I'm just gonna read it. You guys can react to it. As the press is being ushered out, your pooler noticed President Trump reach over in pad Zelinsky's shoulder at one point during the argument. Your pooler also overheard White House staff whisper to each other Quote, this is going to be big. End quote. The conversation turned around 40 minutes in when Vance said, quote, we tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending the President of the United States words matter more than the President, United States actions, blah, blah, blah, blah. So basically, the White House was gearing up for it and it was Vance who instigated the blow up, according to the pool report, which dovestails with this. Yeah, Will, just go ahead, Will. And then I have another question for you.

[Will South]

I just wanted to pull on the thread the part you played before where Trump says, I let this go on, right? Vance says, you, Zelensky did this in front of the media. And then Trump reads the stage directions, right? He says, actually we deliberately let this go on. We wanted to have this confrontation. And that's. They also edited out when Vance says, you didn't thank America. Oh, and he says, you went and campaigned for the opposition. Remember, I think JBL just pointed this out. Zelensky deliberately added to that trip. He was going to like the munitions factory. And he adds to the trip to go see Trump explicitly. And Vance edits that, edits that out because Vance is narrative. The narrative that Vance wants to put out is that Zelensky is on the side of the Democrats is against your career president. It's a dishonest. But the main point I want to make is this. The main. To me, the word that dominates this conversation, this debate in the Oval Office is cards. Trump keeps saying cards. You don't have any cards. Putin has cards. You don't have any cards. You're insulting us because you don't have any cards to play. This is what the United States under Donald Trump represents our foreign policy is about. Do you have cards or don't you? It's not about whether you're right or wrong if you're the victim.

[Sam Stein]

It's transactional.

[Will South]

It's absolutely transactional. So Donald Trump is as happy to stand with a dictator who has cards who attacked another sovereign country as he is to stand. So just Ukraine is in the right. France and Britain standing with Ukraine are in the right. Ukraine's allies are in the right. The United States of America has crossed the line from the good guys to the bad guys. That's what's happened here.

[Sam Stein]

Yes. And to add to that, and then I'll kick it to you, jvl. There was a secondary statement that came out after that heated exchange where Trump essentially says something akin to Zelensky is blinded by. Oh, here it is. He's blinded by Hatred for Putin is Trump's accusation against Zelensky. You see the hatred he's got for Putin, that's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. He's got tremendous hatred, and I understand that, but I can tell you the other side is in. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course he has hatred for Putin. Putin invaded his countries, killed, you know, tens of thousands of Ukrainians. I mean, yes, he has hatred for Putin. Why that's a stumbling block is only material to Trump, who doesn't have hatred for Putin. He likes Putin. And that, I think, is just the essence of this problem, is that Trump, when it comes down to it, prefers Vladimir Putin.

[JVL]

I mean, Vladimir Putin has carried out a campaign which consciously abducted some 20,000 Ukrainian children and spirited them away from their families into the Russian interior. If you're American, can you, can you possibly imagine what that would feel like to America? And then tell me, under what circumstances do you think America would be willing to vote for peace with a country who had done that? I mean, it's, it's simply ridiculous. But the other thing that's, that's interesting, you saw this is like classic dominance Trump. So what Zelensky tries to say is, you know, these effects, the effects of what happens in Europe are felt everywhere. You will even feel them in America. And Trump like loses his fucking mind over it. Yeah, he goes crazy and he's like, don't you tell me what the effects are. The effects here are strong. We have the strong effects. And this is, I am sorry, it would be nice to be very moral and to say this is all about morality and being on the side of right. But the truth is that that's not what international relations is about.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[JVL]

It is about interests. And properly understood, America's interests are in the stability of Europe, the stability of free trade and globalism. These are all the things which are, which are good for America and are why we are involved in NATO. It's why we have made such. It's why we've spent so much money on European stability over the last hundred years. Because it is good for us. It's not because we're nice people. It's because our level of prosperity is largely dependent upon it. And if you think that it's expensive to prop up not only Ukrainian, but European security, you should see the fucking price tag of war. Right? That's what's really expensive. And the American led order, the Pax Americana, which has made us the wealthiest and most prosperous country in the world, that is over and it's over for what? So we could save $5 on USAID so that we, this whole idea like, oh, we've given the Ukrainians $300 billion or we are not dropping pallets of hundred dollar bills out of airplanes into Kiev. That is not what is happening. What is happening is we are taking old military supplies from America, shipping them to Ukraine, and then we are paying American workers to build new, more modern, state of the art weapon systems here in America.

[Sam Stein]

Right?

[JVL]

This is, this is all good for. And the extent to which the American people can't understand this or won't understand it, or understand it, but don't care is an indictment of this entire country. And it tells me that the Europeans are right to realize that America is no longer not just a reliable partner, America is now a potential adversary.

[Sam Stein]

Well, you have two threads on that.

[JVL]

You're gonna have to plan accordingly.

[Sam Stein]

So you have two threads on that. One was post German elections, German leadership basically coming out and saying, we cannot have a future international regime where we are dependent on us. We just can't. We have to build something institutionally to maneuver around it. But then you also have Macron and, and Kier Starmer basically coming to America over the past week to try almost in this kind of obsequious way to get Donald Trump to come and re. Engage. And they're flattering him. They have that weird handshake thing with Macron. And it's clear to me that that has now lost out, that those, those trips were made for not. There was not much to gain. For in a domestic sense, they have something to gain, but in terms of the international scene, there's not much to gain anymore. And that the German model probably makes the most sense now. I mean, where else can you go from here? If you're, if you're, Europe, you can't.

[JVL]

You know what a nuclear Germany, that's, that's got a huge portion of the country interested in the AfD. What could possibly go wrong?

[Sam Stein]

Not a problem.

[JVL]

How could that ever run counter to American interests? Oh, man, I'm sorry, I'm like too hot. You're not supposed to be hot about these things. No, it's dispassionate and cynic. Well, you know, but this is, this is utterly shameful for America. And I honestly can't think of a lower point because this is all conscious. This is all.

[Sam Stein]

There's Helsinki. There was Helsinki with Trump and Putin.

[JVL]

But that was, that's worse, right? That's a guy getting rolled. This is a choreographed set piece.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[JVL]

That will hurt America's long term interests because we've decided that we're on the side of the bad guys.

[Sam Stein]

We're the baddies. I will just note as we're doing this press conference between Trump and Zelensky obviously officially canceled. Zelensky's motorcade has left the White House. They were supposed to speak and take questions. Did not see that one happening. No, no.

[JVL]

I mean, no, I'm asking. No, I'm asking.

[Sam Stein]

The question is, should he have gone up and left?

[JVL]

Trump touches him a couple times, like he's talking over him. And then you see him, like he's touching Zelensky's arm and touching.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[JVL]

Should Zielinski have like slapped him away and said, get your hands off of me, fatty?

[Sam Stein]

I don't think so.

[JVL]

Why not?

[Sam Stein]

I think that would have just made things worse. Exactly.

[Will South]

Jbl, it says, you know, wrestling. This was a stage thing to make Zelensky look like the aggressor. That would have just played into it.

[JVL]

But what would be.

[Sam Stein]

I thought Zelinsky. I thought Zelinsky did about as much as he could. Honestly. Not his. Not his home turf, not his native tongue. It was 20 on one. I mean, like, what. He basically stood there and said, look, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. I've been grateful. You're wrong. And I mean, I don't really know what other cards to play. I don't think hitting Trump would have been a good card. But no speaking cards.

[JVL]

I just don't.

[Sam Stein]

Will you take this one?

[JVL]

No.

[Will South]

Okay. I just want to make my parting thought about this whole thing since given what we just discussed about the. How this was staged. This is a propaganda operation. This is a. This is about within. Forget the world right now. This is within the United States. The President and Vice President of the United States have decided to take the side of the bad guys because they have the cards, in their view, setting aside this debate about interests against the good guys, against Ukraine, against an ally, a democracy, the sovereign country that was invaded, the victim. So Vance and Trump have decided to take this out of the bad guys. And they want you, America, the Americans, to believe that there's. That Zelenskyy is actually the bad guy. So they staged this whole thing to create this narrative that Zelenskyy is ungrateful. And for all the reasons we've just discussed, the narrative is false. It's a lie. Right, but they want you to believe that Zelenskyy is ungrateful, that he comes over here and takes your money because they desperately need you to believe that Ukraine is not just the weaker of the parties against Russia, but is, but that they are somehow in the wrong. That is a lie. Do not believe what your president and your vice president are telling you.

[JVL]

So this one I want to ask you guys.

[Sam Stein]

Sure.

[JVL]

What European leader would agree to come and publicly meet with Donald Trump in the White House now? So if you are the leader of an ally.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[JVL]

Would you agree to sit down with him knowing that he might try to ambush you like this in the White House?

[Sam Stein]

I'd be reluctant to, but you know, it's got to, you have to tell me the circumstances of the meeting, right? Like if it's for some sort of bilateral trade negotiation, maybe, I don't know.

[JVL]

They'Ll do it on a neutral site. Right. But why would they agree to come in here and do this? Right. Because you now think, huh, he may try to hurt my country's interests.

[Sam Stein]

Now I will say related to that, remember, Trump is supposed to meet with Putin, right. I mean there is supposed to be some sort of meeting at. Maybe it's in Saudi Arabia, we don't know. But the side by side videos of this meeting that just concluded and that one will be unreal. Like truly unreal and disgusting. Yeah. All right, any final thoughts from the crew here before we close it?

[JVL]

I weep for America.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, it's a tough one. This was unbelievable. We started by saying it was the most remarkable and frankly shameful thing we've seen in an Oval Office. I think, I honestly cannot think of an even close second in that category. It was really unreal to see the Oval Office turn into this. Well, jvl, thanks a bunch. Appreciate it. To the viewers, thanks for tuning in. As always, do subscribe. We will be talking about stuff like this non stop, so stay tuned.