Bulwark Takes: "Brutal MAGA Civil War Over Charlie Kirk’s Legacy"

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (Bulwark Managing Editor)
Guest: Will Sommer (Author of "False Flag" Newsletter)

Episode Overview

This episode dives headlong into the escalating infighting within MAGA media following the shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA (TPUSA). As the dust barely settles and Kirk hasn't yet been buried, fringe and mainstream right-wing figures wage a fierce "civil war" over his legacy. Central to this drama are conspiracy theories—centered around Israel, antisemitism, and internecine squabbles over TPUSA’s future, with key players including Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Bill Ackman, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and even Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Battle for Charlie Kirk's Legacy

(00:00–02:13)

• Sam Stein introduces the drama and its key players, noting the recurrent themes of antisemitism and conspiracy:
  "There's like a real civil war breaking out in MAGA media over how to define Charlie Kirk's legacy following his assassination... As usual, it involves Candace Owen, and as usual, it involves accusations that Jewish people are doing bad things." (00:22–00:44)
• Will Sommer summarizes:
  • The stakes are immense: TPUSA controls huge finances, media reach, and an army of young right-wing activists.
  • Candace Owens claims Kirk was pressured by pro-Israel donors, that he was "turning against Israel in his final days," and implies this led to his assassination.

2. Candace Owens’ Claims and the MAGA Fallout

(02:13–03:43)

• Owens' statements spark a feeding frenzy—accusations, counter-claims, and wild speculation proliferate.
• Tucker Carlson supports Owens, asserting Kirk “was being pressured to drop me” from TPUSA events due to his own anti-Israel stances.
  "Tucker Carlson comes out and he ... says, this is true. Charlie was being pressured to drop me." (02:34)
• Prominent right-wing influencers argue fiercely about events at a TPUSA retreat funded by Bill Ackman, where it's alleged Kirk faced confrontational pro-Israel pressure.

3. Rumors & Rebuttals: The Ackman Retreat

(03:43–05:06)

• Sam Stein outlines the rumor that Ackman and associates "ambushed" Kirk, demanding either re-commitment to Israel or a "reeducation" trip.
• Will Sommer clarifies: Ackman denies any confrontation, calling it a “lovely time.”
• No evidence exists tying Jewish donors or Israel to any undue pressure.

Notable Quote:
"It's just Wackery. Okay, let's just call what it is." – Sam Stein (03:28)

4. Kirk’s On-Air Blow-Up & Competing Narratives

(05:06–06:37)

• Videos resurface showing Kirk growing more critical of Israel; the day after the retreat, he vents on Megyn Kelly's show.
• Will Sommer:
  "He says, these Israel supporters have been treating me in a repulsive way... All I do is like say very mild things... and then you flip out, you call me anti Semitic." (05:38–05:53)
• Allies and rivals scramble to publish private texts with Kirk: status jostling and narrative-spinning abound.

5. Ambition versus Loyalty

(06:37–07:53)

• Question lingers: are these figures lionizing Kirk out of sincerity, or for personal profit and power within the MAGA media sphere?
• Will Sommer:
  "I think there's a lot of sort of raw ambition here... Kirk's legacy is a very valuable thing... I think she [Candace Owens] is making a claim and Tucker Carlson to at least a slice of that legacy." (07:01–07:53)

6. Infighting Goes Religious: The Great Conversion Conspiracy

(07:53–09:43)

• Candace stokes another controversy—claims Kirk was converting from Evangelical Christianity to Catholicism, inflaming the evangelical base.
• Marjorie Taylor Greene cautions against "a foreign country and foreign agents and another religion" taking over TPUSA (i.e., thinly veiled antisemitism).
• Sam Stein:
  "I don't think she's talking about Islam there. I think she's talking about Jews." (09:15)

7. Political Reach & Blowback

(09:43–10:57)

• The controversy reaches Israel’s PM Benjamin Netanyahu, who issues a 2-min video denying any Israeli involvement and asserting Kirk "loved Israel."
• JD Vance urges MAGA media to hit pause until after Kirk’s funeral.

Notable Moment:

• Israeli PM releases statement:
  “We did not murder Charlie Kirk... In fact, Charlie loved Israel.” (03:08–03:26 summarized)

8. AI-Generated Resurrection & Religious Appropriation

(10:57–11:49)

• Some churches begin playing AI-generated Charlie Kirk sermons from beyond the grave.
• Pastor Jack Graham to congregation:
  "I want you to watch this clip and hear what Charlie is saying regarding what happened to him this past week." (11:20)
• Reaction: The whole congregation stands to cheer the digital apparition—a chilling sign of how Kirk’s image is being manipulated for influence.

Notable AI Quote:
"First, I want you to know I'm fine. Not because my body is fine, but because my soul is secure in Christ. Death is not the end. It's a promotion." (11:20–11:30, AI-Kirk)

9. What’s Next? The Battle for Control

(11:49–12:43)

• Laura Loomer threatens to keep Candace Owens from Kirk's memorial; Owens claims she’ll stop stirring controversy only if Kirk’s widow, Erica Kirk, assumes TPUSA leadership.
• Breaking news: Erica Kirk is named new head of Turning Point USA.

Notable Quotes & Key Moments (with Timestamps)

• "There's like a real civil war breaking out in MAGA media over how to define Charlie Kirk's legacy following his assassination..." – Sam Stein (00:22)
• "The stakes here are big because we're talking about Turning Point USA... millions of dollars at stake, and then this sort of media empire along with it." – Will Sommer (00:54)
• "It's just Wackery. Okay, let's just call what it is." – Sam Stein (03:28)
• "He says, these Israel supporters have been treating me in a repulsive way... you call me antisemitic..." – Will Sommer (05:38)
• "Each of these Candace Owens videos has like 7 million views on YouTube." – Will Sommer (07:10)
• "I hope a foreign country and foreign agents and another religion does not take over Christian, patriotic, Turning Point USA." – Marjorie Taylor Greene (cited by Sam Stein, 09:15)
• AI-generated Kirk: "First, I want you to know I'm fine. Not because my body is fine, but because my soul is secure in Christ. Death is not the end. It's a promotion." (11:20–11:30)

Summary & Takeaways

• The fight over Charlie Kirk's legacy is a volatile mix of conspiracy—antisemitic tropes, religious infighting, and jockeying for power and money.
• Key right-wing influencers are exploiting the uncertainty to advance personal brands and ideological agendas.
• Wild, baseless claims (regarding Israel, donor conspiracies, and religious conversion) are being amplified by media grifters, and even digital resurrection via AI is being deployed in churches to shore up Kirk’s mythos.
• The crux, as Sam Stein observes, may be less about Kirk and more about whose narrative and priorities will define the next era of the MAGA movement.

For those who haven't listened:
This episode captures the chaos, opportunism, and paranoia besieging MAGA media in the wake of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, painting a picture of movement politics where fact, myth, and ambition blur—all before the funeral even begins.