Bulwark on Sunday: The End of The Republic?

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: October 26, 2025
Hosts: The Bulwark Team

Episode Overview

This episode is a sobering, in-depth conversation about the political and institutional fragility facing the United States in 2025. The discussion ranges from the dangers posed by unchecked national debt and looming economic crises to the corrosive effects of “Trumpism,” the rise of illiberal precedents, and the slow erosion of key institutions—culminating in questions about American democracy’s resilience. The hosts reference historical parallels, express deep anxieties about the future, and critique both major political parties for their (in)actions. Throughout, the tone is urgent, frank, and sometimes darkly humorous, as they grapple with what it means to be at the “end of the Republic.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. National Debt Crisis: Economic and Geopolitical Consequences

[00:33–05:50]

• The conversation begins with concerns about the U.S. national debt surpassing $38 trillion and growing at an unprecedented rate.
• The hosts observe Americans have long ignored the deficit, but warn, “Eventually we’re going to care.”
  • Notable Quote: “Eventually something that can’t go on forever is going to stop.” ([00:43] - A)
• They explore a hypothetical scenario (framed as a 2039 retrospective) where unchecked spending leads to a bond market revolt and forced government austerity—echoing the UK's financial crisis in the 1970s, but on a far larger, global scale.
• The likely solution would be both tax increases and spending cuts—with military budgets potentially the most vulnerable.
  • “It’s a lot easier to cut the military than it is to cut entitlement spending or health care spending. And they’re going to do that.” ([04:40] - A)
• Resulting defense cuts could undermine Pax Americana, embolden adversaries like Russia, and destabilize alliances (e.g., NATO).

2. The Dangers of Precedent and Illiberal Drift

[05:50–12:40]

• The hosts express alarm at the dangerous precedents set under Donald Trump—especially unilateral executive actions on tariffs, spending, and immigration.
  • Notable Quote: “He’s a clown with the flamethrower… What about the next guy? What about the guy who maybe was a general… has parts of the military behind him?” ([07:05] - A)
• They warn future, more competent leaders could exploit these precedents, leading to a deeper erosion of democratic norms.
• The panel discusses widespread political disengagement among everyday Americans, and the troubling complacency (and lack of creativity) among elites—especially within the Democratic Party during and after the 2024 election cycle.
  • Notable Quote: “Most people have never really paid attention to politics… What I’m concerned about is it seems like elites… don’t really understand what time it is.” ([09:02] - A)
• They criticize Democrats and the anti-MAGA coalition for not articulating a more compelling vision beyond being “pro-democracy.”

3. Normalization of Authoritarian Tactics and The State of U.S. Institutions

[12:40–22:00]

• Military deployments to American cities have become normalized, with warnings that society might not even register the significance if it happens again.
  • “We are just used to the military being deployed to American cities now. That playbook… has worked.” ([13:45] - A)
• The hosts confess to “fully embracing Trump derangement syndrome”—expressing concrete fears of active-duty military manipulation, aggressive redistricting, or even political assassinations under tacit presidential approval.
• There are alarmist yet plausible comparisons to historic overreach by successful autocrats, with warnings about unchecked demagoguery:
  • Notable Quote: “He’s got a reptilian mind… maybe the greatest demagogue in American history.” ([16:02] - A)
• The rise of an intellectual right—such as the Claremont Institute’s quest for a “Red Caesar”—is highlighted as particularly worrisome.
• Personal anecdotes highlight the changed climate: scenes from a conservative conference where “the Proud Boys were pardoned” and acting “as if he was above the law.”

4. Democratic Party and the Military: The Last Holdouts

[22:00–25:15]

• Only two major institutions have not capitulated to Trumpism: the Democratic Party and the military.
  • “As far as I can tell, there are only two institutions… that have not bent the knee to Donald Trump… the Democratic Party… and the military.” ([22:36] - A)
• Their continued resistance is crucial, but there’s skepticism on how long this will last—especially given the examples of other institutions (e.g., the Federalist Society) gradually “bending the knee.”
• The nightmare scenario would be the U.S. military transforming from a nonpartisan force into a personalist “Republican Guard.”
  • Notable Quote: “If there’s a real concerted effort to promote people whose first loyalty will be to Donald Trump and not the Constitution… eventually you will have sort of a MAGA general officer corps.” ([24:33] - A)

5. Worrisome Signals in U.S. Foreign/Military Policy

[25:15–29:28]

• Discussion shifts to alarming developments in foreign policy and military conduct, such as alleged war crimes in the Caribbean and the lack of congressional oversight.
  • “It seems like war crimes are happening right now. It seems like we’re just using military force without any sort of… congressional approval.” ([25:22] - A)
• Concerns about military leadership failing to stand up to illegality; historical training has never covered the possibility of a criminal commander-in-chief.

6. Closing Reflection: Institutional Fragility and Individual Responsibility

[29:28–end]

• There’s deep uncertainty about whether officers and institutions will resist or adapt to increasing authoritarian pressure.
  • “At every level of being in the military as an officer… submitting yourself to civilian authority was beaten into your head… but… what if you have a criminal president?” ([28:32] - A)
• Hosts call on individuals to act on conscience, not just personal interest or careerism.
• Final tone is resigned, bordering on despair, as participants struggle to find hope or a clear way forward.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the inevitability of crisis:
  “Eventually something that can’t go on forever is going to stop.” ([00:43] - A)
• On precedent and future risks:
  “He’s a clown with the flamethrower… What about the next guy? What about the guy who maybe was a general… has parts of the military behind him?” ([07:05] - A)
• On political disengagement:
  “Most people have never really paid attention to politics… elites… don’t really understand what time it is.” ([09:02] - A)
• On normalization of the extraordinary:
  “We are just used to the military being deployed to American cities now.” ([13:45] - A)
• On demagoguery:
  “He’s got a reptilian mind… maybe the greatest demagogue in American history.” ([16:02] - A)
• On institutional resilience:
  “As far as I can tell, there are only two institutions… that have not bent the knee to Donald Trump… the Democratic Party… and the military.” ([22:36] - A)
• On the threat to civil-military norms:
  “If there’s a real concerted effort to promote people whose first loyalty will be to Donald Trump and not the Constitution… eventually you will have sort of a MAGA general officer corps.” ([24:33] - A)
• On confronting illegality in leadership:
  “What if you have a criminal president? What if you have a Secretary of Defense who’s asking you to do illegal things? This is unchartered territory.” ([28:32] - A)

Timestamps: Important Segments

• National debt and 2039 scenario: [00:33–05:50]
• Bond markets, military cuts, foreign policy implications: [03:20–05:50]
• Dangers of precedent and illiberal drift: [05:50–12:40]
• Political disengagement and elite complacency: [09:02–11:00]
• Democratic strategy and “pro-democracy” message: [11:00–13:45]
• Normalization of military deployments, authoritarianism: [13:45–17:20]
• Intellectual right and “Red Caesar” theory: [16:40–18:30]
• Proud Boys, Proud Boys leader, lawlessness: [20:20–22:00]
• Two institutions still resisting: [22:00–25:15]
• Military as possible politicized force: [24:33–25:15]
• Foreign policy and alleged illegal military actions: [25:15–29:28]
• Institutional fragility and military ethics: [28:32–end]

Summary Takeaways

This Bulwark Takes episode is a clarion call, warning of foundational risks to American democracy and institutions. The hosts are blunt about dangers, grappling with economic, political, and institutional decay, and asking how the country can push back against these tides. The discussion is steeped in both immediate fears—manipulation of the military and legal red lines—and longer-term unease about social apathy and elite denial. Through dark humor and personal stakes, the hosts urge listeners: “Trump derangement syndrome, everybody should adopt it.” ([16:40] - A)