Can “60 Minutes” Survive Bari Weiss? (w/ Max Tani)

Summary

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Bulwark Takes: Can “60 Minutes” Survive Bari Weiss?

Guest: Max Tani (Semafor)
Hosts: Sam Stein (The Bulwark), JVL
Date: December 23, 2025

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Overview

This episode delves into the controversy surrounding Bari Weiss’s decision to spike a “60 Minutes” segment on U.S. detention conditions for Venezuelan migrants—an unprecedented move that has ignited the journalism world. Hosts Sam Stein and JVL are joined by media reporter Max Tani to unpack what happened behind the scenes, debate Weiss’s role and qualifications, discuss the corporate and political pressures swirling around CBS News, and ponder the show’s future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Decision to Pull the 60 Minutes Segment (02:11–04:30)

• Background: Bari Weiss, recently installed as head of CBS News, blocked a planned “60 Minutes” segment exposing the torture of Venezuelan migrants.
• Official Rationale: Weiss cited inadequate reporting, lack of on-camera response from the administration, and insufficiently “moving the ball forward” beyond what the NYT and Human Rights Watch had already covered.
  • Max Tani: “Barry watched it on Thursday and had these concern[s]... as soon as those concerns were raised, essentially the correspondent who reported out the piece was not pleased with it.” (04:30)
• Reporter Response: The seasoned 60 Minutes team—especially Sharon Alfonsi, who produced the piece—expressed outrage, leaking internal dissent and charging a politically motivated editorial override.

2. Corporate & Political Context: The Paramount/Skydance Drama (02:50–06:08)

• Corporate maneuvering: Weiss’s move happened amid high-stakes merger discussions; the Ellison family (Skydance) is eager to reassure the Trump administration they’ll have friendly news coverage, which affects regulatory approval.

  • JVL: “The Ellisons are trying to demonstrate that they will make sure that CBS News... will be good soldiers for Trump and that Barry Weiss is reliable to be friendly to the administration.” (02:50)

• Recent Trump Campaign Attacks: Trump publicly signaled displeasure with “60 Minutes” just days before Weiss’s intervention, fueling suspicions of politicized decision-making.

3. Unprecedented Pushback from 60 Minutes Journalists (06:14–12:33)

• Sharon Alfonsi’s Email: Statement condemns Weiss’s lack of engagement and alleges a political, not editorial, motive.
  • Sam Stein (reading Alfonsi): “Pulling it now, after every rigorous internal check has been met, is not an editorial decision. It is a political one. Government silence is a statement, not a veto.” (09:32–10:27)
• JVL’s Assessment: Weiss’s lack of newsroom and broadcast experience is a recurring critique; her hiring is pegged as a signal to pro-Trump interests.
  • JVL: “The Bari Weiss hire is maybe the most ludicrous hire I've ever seen in journalism... She has no idea what broadcast journalism is.” (06:58)

4. Evaluating Weiss’s Stated Standards (12:21–13:13, 14:55–17:42)

• ‘Move the Ball Forward’ Standard: Panelists point out that demanding every investigative story break completely new ground is unrealistic, especially for TV.

  • JVL (sarcastic): “Name three stories ever to have run in the Free Press, which advanced the ball.” (12:21)

• On-Camera Administration Response Requirement: Hosts question the legitimacy; not getting officials to appear is common and shouldn’t veto stories.

  • Sam Stein: “If something has been printed in the Times and therefore you can't write about it... No offense, Times is going to be probably, you know, beating you on a lot of stuff, right?” (14:55)

• False Equivalence & ‘Balance’: Weiss calls for both sides of legal arguments, but the panel warns against “faux balance” when one side is overwhelmingly favored by legal experts.

  • Sam Stein: “There does seem to be, if... this kind of faux balance when if you looked at... like 95% of lawyers probably would say no, he's dramatically exceeding his authority here.” (22:14)

5. Deeper Motives and the Future of 60 Minutes (17:59–27:42)

• Weiss’s Role: Seen less as a newsroom reformer, more as a symbol to reassure conservative powers and corporate leadership.

  • JVL: “She was not brought on to make things flashier and bring in more interest. That wasn't the purpose behind it.” (17:42)

• Show’s Viability: If staff and audience alike are alienated by politicized edits, the show risks a downward spiral.

  • Max Tani: “I think that the ratings on… CBS broadcasts... are just as steep as it is anywhere else… I think that, I think that the, the heyday of, of this show is… [over].” (25:08)

• Broader Industry Trends: Discussion of how shifting audiences and business priorities (NFL lead-ins, network mergers) affect legacy news shows.

• Unanswered Questions: Whether the Ellisons directly instructed Weiss, or if she acted preemptively; whether she’ll soon be influencing CNN as well.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bari Weiss’s Qualifications:
  • JVL: “She's not a reporter. She's not an executive. She's nothing. She's just a person who goes around and finds rich suckers and fills a ideological need for them.” (08:13)
• On Alfonsi’s Powerful Pushback:
  • Sam Stein (reading email): “Government silence is a statement, not a veto. Their refusal to be interviewed is a tactical maneuver designed to kill the story.” (09:32)
• On the Reality of Modern News:
  • Max Tani: “When the Ellisons are out there basically telegraphing, we are going to make changes to our news programs in order to get these big, major mergers done... it’s hard to trust.” (11:27)
• On the “Balance” Standard:
  • Sam Stein: “If you looked at... like 95% of lawyers probably would say no, he's dramatically exceeding his authority here. And there's like a handful [who don’t].” (22:14)
• Future Outlook:
  • Max Tani: “I really think... it’s over. I think the heyday of this show is [over].” (25:08)
  • JVL (re: CNN): “Just wait till she gets her hands on CNN.” (26:59)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:11 — The episode opens: What happened with Bari Weiss and the spiked segment.
• 04:30 — Max Tani details inside timeline and reactions at CBS.
• 06:14 — The political and corporate backdrop: Trump’s tweets, merger games.
• 09:32 — Sharon Alfonsi’s scathing internal email read aloud.
• 12:21 — Debate over journalistic standards for TV, “moving the ball forward.”
• 14:55 — Flaws in the rationale for spiking stories without on-camera officials.
• 17:59 — Why Bari Weiss is really at CBS; doubts about her impact.
• 22:11 — The problem of false balance and legal legitimacy.
• 25:08 — Max Tani: “The heyday of this show is... over.”
• 26:59 — On the likelihood Weiss will soon influence CNN.

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Conclusion

This episode paints a picture of a legendary news show in crisis, caught between hostile Trump-era politics, aggressive corporate deal-making, and a staff in open revolt against leadership they see as unqualified and politically motivated. The central question—“Can 60 Minutes survive Bari Weiss?”—remains open, but the hosts and their guest suggest more turbulence lies ahead as CBS and perhaps CNN grapple with a new model of management, public trust, and journalistic identity.

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Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Hey everyone, it's me, Sam Stein, managing ed at the Bull work. I am joined by JVL and Max Tawny of Semare, frequent guest friend of the program, I should say. We're going to be talking about Barry Weiss in this highly controversial decision that she made to for the time being spike a 60 minute story on cot and what was happening there specifically the torture of Venezuelans who are brought there. This is basically all people in the journalism world are talking about right now. But not just journalism world. People like us are kind of obsessing over this for what it says about the future of 60 Minutes and Barry Weiss. JVL before we get to Max's reporting, I just want your topline thoughts.

[JVL]

I, I mean she's doing what she was hired to do. So Barry Weiss was hired to help make the, the merger go through with Skydance and Paramount. And this is happening within hours of Larry Ellison saying that he will personally backstop $40 billion in the attempted hostile takeover of Warner Brothers by Paramount. What's funny is the Ellison's care about the movie studios and the intellectual property and the platforms. But in order to get the deals, they need the government and the government to buy in. And what the government compare cares about is they care about CBS News, not even broader cbs, but just CBS News and cnn. And so the Ellisons are trying to demonstrate that they will make sure that CBS News and then by extension CNN should they win this hostile takeover bed that they'll be good soldiers for Trump and that Barry Weiss is reliable to be friendly to the administration and she is who we thought she was.

[Sam Stein]

Max, how did this go down? As I, as I saw it last night, basically out of NowHere, the CBS 60 Minutes Twitter account posts that they're going to be preempting a story that had been set to run. The explanation was it wasn't, you know, error later. And then we started getting more and more explanations. Well, Barry Weiss didn't think it was reported out enough. We get some more stuff from her today about they didn't get anyone on camera from the administration to talk about it. Another explanation was that New York Times had written about this topic so they weren't moving the ball forward enough. I'm going to get to the point by point, but I just want your reporting about what happened.

[Max Tawny]

Yeah, I mean all of those things are, are true. Those are, those are things that Barry had raised internally. But my understanding here from talking to some people close to this is that Barry, this, this piece has had been in the works for a while and it had been undergoing its standard kind of reviews and the kind of reporting process and you know, they were kind of putting the finishing touches on it to get it ready to go on the air. Barry, my understanding is this I believe on Thursday evening and raised some. Subsequently raised some concerns about it. Now, there was like a gap here between when she raised her concerns and when they decided to pull it, which I believe was on. On Sunday or either late Saturday or early Sunday. So there was a period of time in which she wanted, you know, some of these changes possibly to be made. But basically, what my understanding is that Barry watched it on Thursday and had these concern, the concerns that you mentioned. And that was the thing that ended up holding up the piece, because as soon as those concerns were raised, essentially the correspondent who reported out the piece was not pleased with it. And we can get into the details of this. This is a nuanced situation, but there are there. And there are some things that I would be curious to discuss with you guys about it. But at the same time, like, obviously, of course, course, all of this is happening, as JBL mentioned, at the. With the backdrop of Trump trying to put pressure on the Ellisons. The Ellison saying we'll make some. And hinting and suggesting we'll make some changes, you know, should we acquire Warner Brothers. Discovery to cnn. So it's. It's a whole big mess.

[Sam Stein]

Well, it's not just that. Ten days ago, Trump tweeted his displeasure with 60 Minutes.

[Max Tawny]

Yeah, right.

[Sam Stein]

I mean, that's the backdrop, too. And the other thing that we now subsequently know, Washington Post is reporting the executive producer for 60 Minutes, the person who's actually in charge the programming, not Barry Weiss, said that they felt like the piece was in a publishable state and that it was Weiss who overruled. So it is a very rare situation where the head of the news network is intervening in the news programming, saying, no, that's not ready. And then. And jv, I'm curious about your thoughts. The other drama here that is also incredibly fascinating is the decision by the reporters to basically leak their discomfort and displeasure with it, which is just not something you see every day where.

[JVL]

I mean, they're.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, go ahead. Look, this is Sharon Alfonsi. So just go.

[JVL]

The Bari Weiss hire is maybe the most ludicrous hire I've ever seen in journalism. She has never reported. I think she reported one piece ever. And it was like, you know, she went to Australia and just wrote about, like, a travel diary. That's the extent of her reporting shops. She has no idea how reporting works. She's never run a large shop. And the Free Press has, like, five people there. It's the size of the bulwark. Right. And she has no idea what broadcast journalism is. She comes from the world of substack. The idea that you should take this woman with her credentials and put her in charge of a gigantic broadcast news operation is just absurd on its face. And so, you know, so why is she there again? She was there to sort of signal that she was the most respectable person they could pick who would still be. Signal as Trump friendly. You saw this when Trump went on 60 minutes after she was hired. He's like, yeah, and you have a very good, very strong, fair person now running this. Right? You know, he. He got the message, and I just can't imagine. You're a journalist at 60 Minutes. You've been there, you know, working in the. In the salt mines for years, maybe decades. And this new suit comes in fresh off of her $150 million acquisition. And it's just like, oh, yeah, no, you're not moving the ball. Just say. Just say what it is. Like, just say, no, we're not gonna. I'm gonna do this because we're. But again, Max has done more reporting to come on this. This short podcast take than Barry has done in her entire career, because she's. She's not a reporter. She's not an executive. She's nothing. She's just a person who goes around and finds rich suckers and fills like, you know, fills a ideological need for them.

[Sam Stein]

I want. I want to fact check a few things. One is, we have more than five people here. Okay? Just give us a little credit. Two is, yes, we are this podcast, but we're elevated. We're not. We've upped our game a little bit. Just want to make clear. I want to read the. The email that Sharon Alonsi sent. Again, I. To. I agree with 100% of what JVL said, and it's so clear that there is people on staff who are just like, what. Who is this person? Like, what is going on here? Like, this person has never.

[JVL]

Let's fucking do the news.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, let's do the news. Remember that?

[Max Tawny]

That was.

[Sam Stein]

I want to.

[JVL]

Here's Alan Dershowitz.

[Sam Stein]

Here's Erica Kirk.

[Max Tawny]

That's.

[JVL]

That's me doing the news.

[Sam Stein]

Let me read this email because the subtext of this is just incredulity that this is happening. She writes, I learned on Saturday that Barry Weiss spiked our story inside seacot, which was supposed to air tonight. We asked for a call to discuss her decision. She did not afford us that courtesy opportunity. Our score, our story was screened five times and cleared by both CBS attorneys and Standards and Practices. It is factually Correct. In my view, pulling it now, after every rigorous internal check has been met, is not an editorial decision. It is a political one. A political one. We requested responses to questions and our interviews with dhs, the White House and the State Department. Government silence is a statement, not a veto. Their refusal to be interviewed is a tactical maneuver designed to kill the story. This is the reporter putting out a note that everyone's going to consume directly, attacking the head of the network. This is extraordinary stuff, Max.

[Max Tawny]

Yeah, I mean, it certainly is. When, you know, when you were my boss, I would have never dreamed of putting out a note such as this. I would. That would be. It would terrify me. No, but. No, but I do think. No, there's. Well, there's a few things going on here, and I think that. I do think that there are a few things can be true at once. I do think, like, even if you take. You could take Barry at her word and you could say, okay, this is a rehash of a story that the New York Times and Human Rights Watch did a few months back that CBS hasn't added anything to, and you could even, you know, make the argument like, sure, this would be a better piece of tape, you know, if we had this interview with Stephen Miller or with Tom Homan where we, you know, confront them about. Or with Kristi Noem where we confront them about some of this stuff. But of course, it's really hard to take this stuff, you know, seriously. It's hard to. It's hard to trust. And I think this is the way that a lot of people inside CBS feel, even people who, you know, at various points have been rooting for her success. When the Ellisons are out there basically telegraphing, we are going to make changes to our news programs in order to get these big, major mergers done. And when Trump is out there basically at various points changing his mind, saying, oh, when this deal first went through, oh, cbs, we like them now. Their owner has been very friendly to me. They got some new people. And then saying, oh, well, now they've let me down so much because 60 Minutes ran whatever kind of very kind of down the middle segment it ran. So I think that, I mean, I. Look, I think there's a world in which you think, like, maybe this could have. You. This could have benefited from, you know, another thing or two. But I think it's. It's hard to take that stuff seriously and trust it when there is all of this, you know, these environmental factors which, which make it. Make it very hard to believe.

[JVL]

Name three stories ever to have run in the. On the free press, which advanced the ball.

[Max Tawny]

I.

[JVL]

It's just, it's an absurd standard.

[Max Tawny]

I'm not.

[JVL]

No, no, I say that not to you, not to you, Max, to the world. I'm not challenging you. I'm just saying to the world, the idea that it's about like advancing the ball is. And that's the only, the only thing that can ever be of value. And I, you know, Andrew Prokop went and dug up from her archive.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, this was so good.

[Max Tawny]

Yeah.

[JVL]

When she was criticizing the self censorship at the New York Times and how politically sensitive pieces could only run after every line is carefully massaged and negotiated and caveated. And that there are always pretextual complaints about a story not being strong enough to justify running it. Come on.

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[Sam Stein]

Let me play around with this idea that, yes, it could have gotten more reporting and yes, you should have gotten people on camera. I think, generally, sure, everything can always get another iteration of reporting, can always try to get someone on camera. But when the standard is set that you can't duplicate something in the Times and. Or you need Stephen Miller or Tom Harmon to come on camera, you're never going to. You're never going to clear some certain hurdles, right? Like if something has been printed in the Times and therefore you can't write about it, or in this case broadcast it, I mean that, no offense, Times is going to be probably, you know, beating you on a lot of stuff, right? And then the idea that Stephen Miller has to come on, I guess. But, like, what do you. What's the additive here? If you are thinking honestly about what Stephen Miller was going to tell you, do you think booking Stephen Miller to talk about cat is going to illuminate? Because the whole thing's about illuminating it for the viewer to give them a fuller picture. Is Stephen Miller going to provide you the fuller picture? Is he going to provide you just absolute propaganda? And you know what he's going to say, right? Like, yeah, I'm a little bit. I don't know. I'm not saying there's not nuance. I'm not saying she has no point. But I do think the idea that. Oh, you had to get Stephen Miller.

[JVL]

I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

Do you.

[Max Tawny]

There are a few things going on here, which is that, you know, Barry, I think that this couldn't. I think Barry is trying to do something which is very. Which would be very difficult under any sort of circumstance. Barry is taking over a person who has JVL mentioned has no television experience up until then. He's taking over a legacy news broadcaster that has experienced a tremendous amount of turnover over the past several years. They've gone through, like, several network presidents just in the. In the last five years. She's coming in there, she's come in there and she's said, this is. And this is kind of the spin that you hear from, you know, from, from kind of her camp, people kind of close to her. They, they feel, you know, this is old broadcasting that's really stale, and if we want to survive, we need to make it interesting. That's why we're doing the Erica Kirk town hall with, you know, was that interesting with five viewers? I'm saying, yes, I'm saying. I'm saying this is what they're saying. This is what they're saying. You know, I, I'm and I, I can. There's a.

[Sam Stein]

There it is true.

[Max Tawny]

Some of, some of it certainly is like it could be flashier or more, you know, dynamic or something like this.

[JVL]

Alan Dershowitz, one of the most charismatic figures of our time.

[Max Tawny]

You know I did a video. I was on the Bulwark. Yeah. The last time I was on the Bulwark was to talk with Sam about Alan Burchards.

[Sam Stein]

But that's because he didn't like his dumplings or whatever pierogies.

[Max Tawny]

But all of that is to say that it is a very, it is incredibly. I think that it is very, very difficult to do that job when both that you don't have, you know, a career of television experience to help you make those kind of programming calls and to.

[JVL]

They ever watch her podcast Max. Her podcast was not scintillating. This is again like we just can't that these, these things are real. She was not brought on to make things flashier and bring in more interest. That wasn't the purpose behind it.

[Max Tawny]

As New York magazine had a great piece about this last week which laid out, you know, the ways in which Barry's career changed as she got closer to a lot of people in Hollywood in the wake of COVID You know, there were a lot of people, including people like the Ellisons who felt they understood her spiritually in her kind of anti woke kind of you know, the kind of anti woke things that she was putting out there. Plus as well you know, her support for Israel that found a nice niche audience including she sports Israel.

[JVL]

I didn't, I wasn't worried about it. Let me.

[Sam Stein]

Can I make, can I throw, can I throw out a thought that I, I'm curious for your takes on this. I don't think this was the more the, the from a managerial perspective. I don't think this was her worst move yet. I actually think the decision she made to moderate the Erica Kirk panel was a silly misstep. Not booking Erica Kirk or doing the Barry centering Barry. Well that's.

[JVL]

I can't believe it.

[Sam Stein]

If I, because if I were, if I were a person, if I was a CBS News anchor or even a reporter, the idea that editor in chief would come in in Bigfoot and then take it over and then do all the promotion around it. Yeah. And then can you imagine why talk. It's because it's central.

[JVL]

Because the project is making Barry Weiss more famous.

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[Sam Stein]

So that's what would tick me off and into a degree being like, look, I don't feel comfortable yet running this segment. We need more reporting that's more of a traditional editor in role. The idea of taking over the interview, the A1 interview and being like, I'm going to do it and then I'm going to promote it and it's going to be about me and her is a little bit more divisive, I would say, in terms.

[JVL]

Yeah.

[Max Tawny]

The question, the, the question that I, the question that I have and that I've, I've, you know, kind of endeavoring to figure out over the last few hours, over the last day is whether or not, you know, the Ellisons explicitly, you know, said anything to Barry to suggest that they hold off on either this segment or these types of segments in general or and this is of course always the more kind of.

[Sam Stein]

Is it, is it possible the Ellison's well, are getting screen these segments pre advance.

[Max Tawny]

There was a story that, from Charlie, from Charlie Gasparino, New York Post a few weeks ago in which, or maybe this was like a week and a half ago after Trump tweeted about 60 minutes, there was some leaks to Gasparino from somebody and he's been hearing, you know, Charlie's very plugged in and part of, part of this world world he's been, he was hearing essentially that the Ellisons were unaware they were putting it out there, that they were unaware that this segment was coming out, but that they were like they had concerns about the segment that had upset Trump. But anyway, I, I guess what, I guess what I was going to say though is that, and I think that this gets to the point that, you know, maybe JBL was making and I, I'm sure that maybe you agree with as well, Sam, that like the, it's not even if, you know, the Ellisons explicitly said David Ellison explicitly said to Barry, like, hey cool it, lay off this thing. It's just like the knowledge that one has in the back of your head that she might have in the back of her head that, you know, this is the kind of thing that would, you know, might, might get them into trouble, might ruin this big deal that, you know, they're. They're going to have that would put them and Warner Brothers together. That to me feels like, you know.

[JVL]

Barry's not that stupid. She doesn't need to be told not to run a segment like she knows what the score is. Can I ask you guys a question?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[JVL]

Wind back the clock to the lawsuit that got 60 Minutes in trouble with Trump because they interviewed Kamala Harris and they offered to interview him and he declined. Under a Bari Weiss regime, would one presidential candidate declining to participate in an interview then mean that they didn't do the interview of the other person?

[Max Tawny]

Hmm.

[JVL]

It's a trick question because obviously it is. If the Democrat declines, then she'll run the Republican interview. Well, yeah, the other way around, right. If J.D. vance says no, I'm not going to do it, then they won't run the Democratic.

[Sam Stein]

That seems to. That would, I mean obviously everything's squishy. But that would seem to be the standard she's setting here. Right. It's like you have to have. And there was something about there in.

[JVL]

Her note that she McConnell standards on Supreme Court nominations.

[Sam Stein]

And this was like it's negotiable. So in this four, in this multi part note she sent to staff explaining her email, 60 staff explaining the decision, there was one line that really stood out to me at the end. We need to do a better job of explaining the legal rationale by which the administration detained and deported 252 Venezuelans. It's not as simple as Trump evoking the Aliens Enemies act and being able to deport them immediately. And that isn't the administration's argument. The administration's arguing in court that the detainees are due judicial review. And we should explain this. Here's the part I noticed with a voice arguing that Trump is exceeding his authority under the relevant statute and another arguing that he's operating within the bounds of his authority. So it is this kind of faux balance when if you looked at basically what is it like 95% of lawyers probably would say no, he's dramatically exceeding his authority here. And there's like a handful often work in the administration. So there does seem to be, if.

[JVL]

They do a segment on birthright citizenship, are they going to have two constitutional law scholars, one explaining how no birthright citizenship is in the Constitution and then another one explaining how actually it's not. It's absurd and just like say you.

[Sam Stein]

Want to be Newsmax, just say it to me.

[Max Tawny]

This also gets at the other problem that exists here, which is, you know that the Ellisons brought in Barry to run CBS News and bear. And part of one of Barry's things that she put out there right when she started is like we got to rethink kind of like this is this place has lost kind of its ideological and kind of journalistic or it's it's core way basically. And that like this has leaned too far and become like too far to implying that it got moved Too far to the left. But that's not like. And, and that, that was the thing that was causing viewers to leave and audiences to leave. And the reality is that it has nothing to do with that. What has viewers are leaving because they can watch, you know, the Bulwark podcast.

[Sam Stein]

With our poop podcast.

[Max Tawny]

Yeah. Instead that might have been true back.

[JVL]

Do you remember the, the Texas National Guard scandal, right. Under George W. Bush with cnn.

[Sam Stein]

The Dan Rather thing like that might.

[JVL]

Have been true 20 years ago.

[Ad Voice 2]

Right.

[JVL]

CBS News has been a perfectly responsible news organization over the last decade. There has not been any crazy left wing, you know, resistance stuff coming out of cbs.

[Max Tawny]

Yes.

[JVL]

This is just like she, you know, the whole world is a nail and she's got a hammer and she, she's gotten super rich doing it.

[Sam Stein]

Let me ask to close this up so if you had to. And this is mostly to max. I just don't see how it's tenable when you have staffers leaking memos, staffers putting out emails, Barry saying that we've like, we have to trust each other then coming down hard. And yet what's, I mean, what we're in this industry, where do they go? Right. It's not like, you know, I just don't know what 60 minutes looks like in six months.

[Max Tawny]

I really do think in general that this, it's. I think it's, I think it's really over. Like, I really think, I think that this was, this is going to happen for two reasons. Like, I think part of it is just the, is the current.

[Sam Stein]

What does over mean though Situation.

[Max Tawny]

I mean that I think that these, I think that the ratings on these CB Fox News has been releasing their ratings regularly, showing themselves beating a lot of the CBS broadcasts that used to never happen. Right. Like Fox was always the biggest in cable. It wasn't the biggest in broadcast in general. Broadcast viewership decline for the news is, is, is just as steep as it is anywhere else. And I think that when you don't have a clear, and when you don't have a clear identity or audience, you're, you're going to lose talent because people are going to go and want to work someplace where they can, you know, be in front of people and make a difference. And of course you're going to lose viewers who are confused about what's going on. And, and, and they are already in a declining kind of business. So I, I mean my personal view is that I, I think that, I think that the, the heyday of, of this show is, is.

[Sam Stein]

But does the show even. I'm just the. Put inside the heyday. Does the show exist?

[Max Tawny]

Yeah, yeah. It still was watched by a lot. It's still watched by a lot of people because its lead in is NFL football for most of its. Most of the year, which is. Which is a pretty nice lead in. And I think that that's so. Yeah, I think. I think it'll still. I think it'll still be there. I think that the question is, are they going to see the kind of declines that places like, you know, say the Washington Post saw when they decided not to endorse, you know, Kamala Harris? Right. And their audience kind of revolted it.

[Sam Stein]

I've been telling JVL we need to get NFL streaming rights for our YouTube page, but he just doesn't absolutely.

[Max Tawny]

Can you get, like, the, the, like any of the weird game. You know, kind of. You get a preseason.

[Sam Stein]

The Berlin game here and there.

[Max Tawny]

The Berlin game. A lot of people watch that, though. I think it's on.

[Sam Stein]

It's such a high.

[Max Tawny]

I think a lot of people watch that.

[Sam Stein]

All right, jv, it seems like you agree that this basically is just. Yeah, big cuts.

[JVL]

Just wait till she gets her hands on cnn.

[Sam Stein]

If she gets her hands on cnn, it's happening. You think so?

[JVL]

Yeah, I think so.

[Sam Stein]

You think so.

[Max Tawny]

I think that I, I think that Paramount. I think that Paramount wants it more.

[Sam Stein]

Than they want it bad. They keep. They keep upping the bid, changing it for them.

[Max Tawny]

Their business really relies on them, you know, reaching a level where they can compete with. With. With the other big kind of players in the space, Netflix, and also YouTube and. And Disney and some of these others. Yeah. So I think that they won't want it more. Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, man. Kim Asian. Jeez, how can she review every single segment before it airs, though, if she has all those things underneath her? Some will get through the cracks.

[Max Tawny]

Some people actually work hard at their jobs, Sam. People like some people. Some people really care. That's. That's what it is.

[Sam Stein]

I'm not one of them, obviously. All right, Max, jbl. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Really good segment.

[Max Tawny]

Thank you.

[Sam Stein]

Happy holidays.

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[Sam Stein]

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[JVL]

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[JVL]

Toyota Thon ends January 5th. See your participating dealer for details. Toyota let's Go Places.