Bulwark Takes: Canadian DOGE? How Canada Succeeded Where DOGE is Failing

Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Tony Altomore, Strategy Consultant
Release Date: February 26, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Sam Stein engages in a deep discussion with Tony Altomore, a strategy consultant with a rich background in both the private sector and government consulting. The conversation centers around Tony's pivotal role in leading a government cost-reduction initiative in Canada and contrasts it with the current efforts of the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) in the United States.

Tony Altomore's Background (01:25 - 03:00)

Tony Altomore shares his diverse career trajectory, starting from his undergraduate studies to his tenure as an investment banker with the USC Trojans. He transitioned to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), where he worked both domestically and internationally on the business side. After earning an MBA from Wharton, Tony worked with major consulting firms like Booz Allen and Deloitte before establishing his own consultancy.

Tony Altomore (03:03): “The best people anywhere were at CIA.”

Tony humorously compares his time at the CIA to the television show Alias, highlighting the complexity and often mundane reality of intelligence work.

Canadian Government Cost Reduction Initiative (03:00 - 06:54)

Tony delves into his involvement with a cost-reduction project spearheaded by Deloitte for the Conservative Prime Minister of Canada between 2011-2012. The initiative aimed to trim the government budget while minimizing the impact on citizens. The project structure included a central team of seven consultants working alongside 120 project members from various government agencies.

Tony Altomore (05:55): “The two pieces were 5% and 10%.”

Tony explains that each agency was tasked with identifying areas to reduce costs by 5% and 10%. Importantly, decisions were not made unilaterally by consultants but involved elected leaders and a bipartisan committee, ensuring buy-in from both political parties.

Process and Implementation (06:54 - 13:25)

The success of the Canadian initiative hinged on collaborative efforts and empowering internal task forces within each agency. Tony emphasizes the importance of working with experienced government personnel rather than imposing external decisions.

Tony Altomore (08:31): “With governments, it's not about cash flow, it's about, about spend.”

An illustrative example Tony provides involves streamlining database access within a security agency, where his team identified inefficiencies without overstepping into sensitive areas. This contrasted sharply with DOGE's approach, which Tony criticizes for lacking expertise and making misguided decisions.

Critique of DOGE's Approach (13:25 - 25:36)

Tony is critical of DOGE's methodology, arguing that it mirrors ineffective past attempts by administrations like Obama's, which ultimately failed to achieve meaningful cost reductions. He points out several issues:

1. Lack of Expertise: DOGE’s team, according to Tony, comprises individuals not equipped with the necessary skills for effective government cost-reduction. He contrasts this with the highly skilled professionals at consulting giants like McKinsey and Deloitte.

2. Inadequate Access and Security: DOGE’s demands for extensive access to sensitive databases, including write permissions, are seen as both unnecessary and potentially nefarious. Tony suggests that such requests indicate ulterior motives beyond genuine cost savings.

   Tony Altomore (24:44): “One of the things that you have to have when you do projects like this, you have to have enough dialogue to figure out can you get 95% of what you need.”

3. Ideological Motives: Tony posits that DOGE's actions are driven more by ideology than by actual cost-saving goals. He cites instances where DOGE made superficial cuts without addressing underlying inefficiencies, leading to more significant long-term costs.

4. Lack of Transparency and Bipartisan Support: Unlike the Canadian model, DOGE lacks transparency and authentic bipartisan support, making its initiatives vulnerable to reversal and fostering distrust among stakeholders.

   Tony Altomore (33:34): “You need those people to be there to have some kind of authenticity, to be like, okay, this is not, you know, we're actually doing this thing.”

Comparison with US Government Initiatives (25:36 - 34:24)

Tony contrasts DOGE's approach with previous US government efforts, emphasizing that successful cost-reduction requires:

• Bipartisan Buy-In: Ensuring that both political parties support and commit to the initiatives.

• Expertise and Collaboration: Involving consultants and government officials who understand the intricacies of federal operations.

• Long-Term Commitment: Avoiding quick fixes that lead to more significant problems down the line.

Tony expresses concern that DOGE's flawed approach could tarnish the broader goal of government efficiency, making future cost-reduction efforts more challenging.

Tony Altomore (30:08): “My best case scenario and if you look at the people working on Doge, there are a couple, you know, we sort of, we hear about these clown hackers they have.”

He also highlights the potential financial fallout from DOGE’s missteps, noting that poor initial cuts can lead to expensive fixes involving contractors down the line.

Conclusion and Future Outlook (34:24 - End)

As the conversation wraps up, Tony remains hopeful that with the right expertise and collaborative approach, government cost-reduction efforts can succeed. However, he warns that without addressing the foundational issues in DOGE's strategy, the initiative is likely to fall short of its objectives.

Tony Altomore (34:15): “So you just, you need those people to be there to have some kind of authenticity, to be like, okay, this is not, you know, we're actually doing this thing.”

Sam Stein thanks Tony for his insightful analysis, emphasizing the importance of learning from Canada's experience to inform and potentially rectify DOGE's current shortcomings.

Notable Quotes:

• Tony Altomore (03:03): “The best people anywhere were at CIA.”
• Tony Altomore (08:31): “With governments, it's not about cash flow, it's about, about spend.”
• Tony Altomore (24:44): “You need those people to be there to have some kind of authenticity, to be like, okay, this is not...”
• Tony Altomore (34:15): “So you just, you need those people to be there to have some kind of authenticity...”

Key Takeaways

• Collaborative Approach: Successful government cost-reduction requires collaboration between consultants and experienced government officials, ensuring that initiatives are both effective and sustainable.

• Expertise Matters: Engaging professionals with the right expertise is crucial. Lack of proper knowledge can lead to misguided decisions that may exacerbate existing problems.

• Bipartisan Support: Ensuring support from multiple political parties fosters longevity and reduces the risk of initiatives being overturned with changing administrations.

• Transparency and Authenticity: Building trust through transparent processes and authentic commitment to objectives is essential for the success of large-scale government projects.

Tony Altomore's insights provide a valuable perspective on how Canada managed to implement effective cost-reduction measures by prioritizing expertise, collaboration, and bipartisan support—lessons that could prove instrumental in addressing the challenges faced by DOGE in the United States.