Cap, Gown, Chaos

Summary

Bulwark Takes: "Cap, Gown, Chaos" – Detailed Summary

Episode Title: Cap, Gown, Chaos
Release Date: May 2, 2025
Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Lauren Egan
Podcast: The Bulwark

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Introduction and Setting the Stage (00:00 – 01:10)

The episode kicks off with a light-hearted exchange between Sam Stein, the managing editor at The Bulwark, and his guest Lauren Egan. Sam humorously inquires about Lauren's recent outdoor activities, joking about whether she went on a duck or deer hunt. Lauren clarifies her preference for deer hunting, setting a casual and personable tone for the discussion.

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Egan (00:08): "I'm more into deer, actually."

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Overview of Donald Trump's University of Alabama Address (01:10 – 02:27)

Sam transitions the conversation to the central topic: Donald Trump's recent address at the University of Alabama, which took place just before their commencement ceremonies. He highlights the unusual nature of the speech, noting that while it was positioned as a commencement address, its content diverged significantly from traditional graduation speeches.

Notable Quote:

• Sam Stein (00:17): "We're here to talk about Donald Trump's address before the University of Alabama."

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Cultural Context of the University of Alabama Campus (02:27 – 03:10)

Lauren provides context about the University of Alabama's cultural and political landscape. She notes that while Alabama is a red state, the college campus itself exhibits a mix of political opinions. This diversity was evident as some students opted to attend a rally featuring Doug Jones and Beto O'Rourke instead of Trump's speech.

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Egan (01:39): "There's conflicting political opinions on campus for sure."

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Analysis of Trump's Rhetoric and Content (03:10 – 05:56)

Sam delves into the specifics of Trump's speech, characterizing it as reminiscent of a typical Trump rally. He points out Trump's emphasis on his achievements, such as job creation and favorable tariffs, and his endorsements of figures like RFK Jr. and Elon Musk. A significant focus of the speech was on trans athletes, a topic Trump revisited multiple times, even incorporating a mock weightlifting act to underscore his points.

Lauren reflects on the appropriateness of such content for a graduation setting, suggesting that commencement speeches usually aim to inspire rather than engage in political discourse. She observes that Trump’s remarks about college swimming and his stance on trans athletes indicate his belief that these issues resonate with the audience, possibly reflecting a more conservative sentiment among the younger generation than commonly perceived.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein (02:27): "It was just like all the greatest hits."
• Lauren Egan (03:10): "Normally you kind of skip over some of those, you know, like more contentious political points."

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Discussion on William Levitt Anecdote (05:16 – 08:46)

A pivotal moment in Trump's speech was his extensive discussion about William Levitt, the renowned post-World War II housing developer responsible for Levittown. Trump recounted an anecdote where he met Levitt at a high-profile party, witnessing Levitt alone and reflective of his waning influence.

Lauren and Sam analyze the possible motivations behind incorporating this story. Sam theorizes that Trump uses Levitt's story as a cautionary tale about perseverance and maintaining momentum in business and politics. He suggests that Trump views relentless determination as the key to overcoming scandals and setbacks, aligning with his own approach to political challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein (05:16): "I think Trump views... the only thing that matters... is perseverance."
• Lauren Egan (08:35): "It is interesting that this... that's what stuck with him so long."

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Connecting to Past Speeches and Personal Reflections (07:20 – 09:56)

Sam references a previous Trump speech at the Boy Scouts Jamboree in 2017, where Trump similarly mentioned William Levitt. He recalls the backlash from Levitt’s family, specifically an email from Levitt's son to The New York Times criticizing Trump’s portrayal of his father. This parallel emphasizes Trump's tendency to reuse impactful stories that resonate with his narrative of unwavering persistence.

Lauren shares a personal anecdote about witnessing Trump's controversial remarks early in his presidency, reinforcing the pattern of unpredictable and provocative rhetoric.

The conversation concludes with reflections on the audience's reception. Sam expresses curiosity about the students' reactions during the speech, while Lauren speculates that attendance was likely polarized, with some students choosing alternative events over the Trump address.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein (07:20): "Do you remember the famous Trump speech to the Boy Scouts?"
• Lauren Egan (09:15): "It wasn't like this event was... mandatory in order to get your diploma."

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Closing Remarks and Call to Action (09:56 – End)

As the episode wraps up, Sam issues a call to action for University of Alabama students who attended Trump's address to share their experiences via The Bulwark's tip line. He encourages listeners to subscribe to the feed for more insightful discussions.

Notable Quote:

• Sam Stein (09:56): "If you are a student at the University of Alabama... we want to hear about it."

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Key Takeaways

1. Unconventional Commencement Speech: Donald Trump's address at the University of Alabama deviated from traditional commencement speeches by adopting a political rally style, emphasizing his achievements and controversial topics like trans athletes.

2. Cultural Context: The University of Alabama's campus reflects a mix of political opinions, with a significant conservative presence but also active opposition, as evidenced by attendance at alternative rallies.

3. William Levitt Anecdote: Trump's recounting of William Levitt's decline serves as a metaphor for the importance of perseverance, aligning with his personal and political ethos of relentless determination despite controversies.

4. Audience Polarization: The mixed reactions among students highlight the polarized political climate, with some embracing Trump's message while others sought alternative events or chose not to attend.

5. Recurrent Themes in Trump's Rhetoric: The episode draws parallels between Trump's current and past speeches, illustrating his consistent use of impactful anecdotes to reinforce his narratives.

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Conclusion

"Cap, Gown, Chaos" offers a comprehensive analysis of Donald Trump's contentious address at the University of Alabama, exploring the intersection of politics, culture, and generational perspectives within a college commencement context. Through thoughtful discussion, Sam Stein and Lauren Egan dissect the implications of Trump's rhetoric and its reception among the student body, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the event's significance.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. And I'm joined by Lauren Egan, fresh off of a duck hunt. Or was it a deer hunt? Which one, Lauren?

[Lauren Egan]

I'm more into deer, actually.

[Sam Stein]

Deer huntsman, Deer journey. I want to make sure I understand what the camo's for. I almost wore my camo tonight.

[Lauren Egan]

Just my cozy clothes.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, okay. We're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about Donald Trump's address before the University of Alabama. I was going to call it a commencement address. It's not actually a commencement address. It is just an address right before their commencement ceremonies. But it was before the University of Alabama students. A lot of people were in cap and gown. We're going to get into it. It took some weird turns, especially for a speech to graduates. But before we do that, subscribe to the feed. Really appreciate it. So, Lauren, you're, you're in SEC country. It's different than where I'm currently residing. Where I'm from. Set up like a little bit sort of culturally, what it's like at Alabama. And, you know, obviously the state is very red, but is the, is the student body red? Like, what are those schools like, in your estimation?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, I mean, it's still a red state and it's, but it's, it's a college campus, so definitely going to be, you know, more conservative than perhaps where you went to school or what some folks that go to school in the Northeast are used to. But it's, it's a college campus, so there's, it's a bit more of a mix. But, you know, there was enough people on campus that didn't want to show up to the Trump speech, that went to a rally with Doug Jones and Beto O'Rourke there. So, like, there's conflicting political opinions on campus for sure.

[Sam Stein]

Gotcha. The reason I asked, because the speech that Trump gave was more akin to what you would traditionally get at a political rally, and especially just a Trump rally. Right. Like, going through all the great things he's done, how low gases, jobs coming back, tariffs are great. RFK Jr is going to make all the food so spectacularly healthy. Elon's doing a hell of a job. The tech giants now kiss his ass. I mean, it was just like all the greatest hits. But there were two things in particular that stood out to me. One was how much he talked about trans athletes. I mean, it came up at least twice, maybe more than that. And for extended periods of time, he even got into this little thing where he did a weightlifting thing. I don't know. Can. What was that? He was just mimicking or mocking.

[Lauren Egan]

Just like mocking. Yeah. I mean, it was.

[Sam Stein]

It was, yeah. And I was just sort of surprised. I mean, I get it. Like, he's, he ran on this platform, he's anti trans, but, like, I don't know, I just figured that kids, students really weren't as into that stuff as he was, and that that's not necessarily the proper form to make those types of remarks. But what do I know, right? It could be very much popular in Alabama.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, Well, I think there's a few things. One, it's still supposed to be a graduation speech. So these aren't typically the venues where you get into some of the more political type things that sort of just like go off into the world, kids and do great things. He eventually got to. At the end of it, sort of.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

Like, normally you kind of skip over some of those, you know, like more contentious political points, but I don't know, like, this generation is more conservative than, than we typically think younger generations to be. You know, he talked about. I was a former college swimmer in the sec. He talked about college swimming. That's been like a big thing in the sec. You know, like a lot of Kentucky swimmers have made a big deal about it. So he mentioned it in the speech. He said, this is an issue that I'm on the right side of this. The popular opinion is with me, not with them. So clearly he thinks that this is, you know, something that people care about. I mean, you know, the other crazy.

[Sam Stein]

Thing that that was part of the speech, and it came like smack dab in the middle, was he went on like a fairly lengthy tangent about William Levitt. And for those who don't know the name, William Levitt is a famous housing developer. He basically remade the country, mostly starting with New York. Levittown is off of his name. It's baby, basically cookie cutter suburban housing. And he pioneered it in the post World War II era. And Trump made a long speech and it was like, it was hard to understand where he was going because at one point in time. And we'll play a little bit this. At one point in time, he started talking about how successful Levitt was and how he was in France with a trophy wife and he was just. It was marinating. Let's play it here and then we can talk about it on the other side.

[C]

But he lost his momentum. He wasn't good at it anymore. And he was at a party on Fifth Avenue, I'll never forget. And it was a party of a very, very powerful man. Was having the party in a magnificent apartment overlooking the park. And I walked in and there were 50 or so people. I recognized most of them. All the biggest business people in the world, actually. Very glamorous. I was doing well. I was young and I was doing well, and I was invited to parties like that. And I looked in the corner and there was Mr. William Levitt sitting all by himself on a chair.

[Sam Stein]

All right? And so then he's talking about, like, Levitt kind of suffering this fall from grace. He meets up with him at Apart an apartment. Levitt has, like, you know, is sulking alone, no friends, and Trump's big takeaways. Levitt told him, apparently I lost my momentum, and that was the building that up to the ground.

[Lauren Egan]

What is he trying to tell us?

[Sam Stein]

I don't know. I think I. I don't quite know what he. What do you think he's trying to tell?

[Lauren Egan]

I couldn't tell if it was, like, a commentary about, like, Biden or, like, what?

[Sam Stein]

No, I don't think it was Biden. I don't think it was Biden. I think. I don't know. You go.

[Lauren Egan]

You go.

[Sam Stein]

I have a theory of this.

[Lauren Egan]

Okay. No, I want to hear your theory. Because I was listening to it. I was like, is he trying. Is this supposed to be, like, some thinly veiled something about Biden, or is he trying to tell us that he's running out of steam as he approaches 80 years old? No.

[Sam Stein]

No, he's not. So this is my theory that Trump b. And I think. I think it's actually fairly simple. I think Trump views, like, the only thing that matters in business and politics, whatever, is perseverance. And that if you just don't give up or, like, give in to your critics, if you just, you know, buckle down and plow through it, like, you'll be fine. And that explains 98% of Trump. Right? Like, any scandal that would have ruined any other politician, Trump is just like, screw it. I'm sticking through it. Like, yeah, they have me on tape saying, I like to grab her by the pussy. And that's fine. I'm going to go through it and like, yeah, like, I shook down, you know, world leaders to, like, get dirt on Biden. I'm just going to go through it. And, yeah, I got impeached twice. And, yeah, sparked a riot. And I think he honestly believes that if you just don't stop, nothing can stop you. And so William Levitt becomes this story, this cautionary tale. And the reason I think this is because he's used the story at least once before. There was an infamous piece. I don't know if you remember this. Were you in political journalism in 2017 or no?

[Lauren Egan]

Oh, I was just entering political journalism.

[Sam Stein]

Do you remember the famous Trump speech to the Boy Scouts? The Boy Scott Jamboree?

[Lauren Egan]

I don't. Oh, yes. Oh, my God.

[Sam Stein]

The jumper. The. The one where he was talking about, like, weird sexual exploits in front of the Boy Sky Jamboree.

[Lauren Egan]

That was, like, the beginning of my journalism career. So I was like, wow, so glad I chose this as my career path.

[Sam Stein]

It was a wild speech. It was a very wild speech. It was shocking because it came really early in the Trump presidency and everyone didn't know if he was going to be as crazy as he was in the campaign. It clearly was. Anyways, that was when he first brought up the William Levitt story. And it was almost. And I looked at it, it was almost verbatim to what he said tonight in Alabama. And it was so shocking at the time, in 2017, that a Levitt ancestor. I think it was the grandson. No, the son, sent an email to the Times, you know, admonishing Trump for using his father's story, saying, donald Trump couldn't hold a candle to my dad's achievements. So we're, like, coming full circle. Of course, now Trump tells that story, and everyone's just like, ah, it's just Trump.

[Lauren Egan]

Just another Trump story. But that is interesting that this, like, that that's what stuck with him so long, you know?

[Sam Stein]

Well, he's also, like, in the real. Yeah, yeah, but he's in the real estate business. This guy probably was an icon to him, or at least he knew him. Right. And to watch him in the corner of an apartment building without friends probably stood out for Trump.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

I just don't know if it's a good graduation speech.

[Lauren Egan]

No, definitely not. Like, the most uplifting story you could be telling students as they enter the world. But sure, why not?

[Sam Stein]

I will say the lot. My, My real takeaway was that the students behind Trump who sat there and kept a stoic face and occasionally did applaud. I, you know, I kept wondering what is going through their heads. Like, do they. I mean, I can't. I don't know of what I would do if I was in that situation.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, well, you know, I think that this. I don't know how this election worked for who sat behind Trump, but I have to imagine that there are people that were, like, you know, they were pumped about. About Trump being there. Well, I don't. I don't know. Yeah, sure, maybe they were screened, but. But, like, it wasn't. It's not like this event was. Since the actual commencement is tomorrow. This event wasn't mandatory in order to get your diploma, so, like, plenty of people didn't go to it. They went and hung out with Beto Rogan, Beto and Doug Jones.

[Sam Stein]

Or they did. Or they did things that you would do.

[Lauren Egan]

Or like, they had fun before you graduated. Yeah. Or they were, like, out at the bars. I don't know. So, yeah, if you showed up tonight, you know, you wanted to see, you were in it, you were into it. Yeah. So.

[Sam Stein]

All right, well, let's put out a plea. If you are a student at the University of Alabama, if you were at the event, hit us up. We have a tips lines. That's the bulwark slash tips. We want to hear about it. We might read your remarks. Keep them anonymous if you want. All right, Lauren, thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you for sitting through this and watching it. And thank you guys for watching our video. Really appreciate that, too. Subscribe to the feed and we will talk to you a little bit.