Bulwark Takes — Chris Murphy: Trump’s Freakout Over the Epstein Files Tells You Everything
Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Sam Stein (The Bulwark)
Guest: Senator Chris Murphy (D-CT)
Date: November 16, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features a robust and candid conversation between Sam Stein and Senator Chris Murphy, recorded in front of a live audience in Austin, Texas. The discussion ranges widely, covering the impending release of Jeffrey Epstein files and its potential impact on Donald Trump, evolving Democratic strategies in the face of authoritarian tendencies, the shifting political landscape, and the urgency of defending American democracy. The episode also includes substantial Q&A from the audience on artificial intelligence, filibuster reform, hope in politics, gun violence, and demographic change.
Main Themes
- The political and moral crisis surrounding the Trump presidency and the impending release of Epstein files.
- How Democrats must adapt, communicate, and organize in a fundamentally altered political environment.
- The existential stakes for American democracy and lessons from opposition movements.
- Concrete policy and political challenges: shutdowns, pardons, economic populism, and Democratic Party direction.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Senator Murphy’s Political Evolution
[02:03-05:38]
- Reflection on public service: Murphy recounts his start in local politics and major turning points, notably the Sandy Hook shooting, which became a catalyst for his work against gun violence.
- Evolving views: Murphy expresses that his approach has shifted from rigid ideological litmus tests to a belief in a bigger tent:
"I think our path forward runs through being a bigger tent party with fewer litmus tests, but being a party that is robustly populist in our economics, presenting very big ideas that match the big problems that people are facing." [04:20]
2. How Trump Changed the Rules of Politics
[05:42-08:48]
- Strategic communication: Murphy argues that old political rules are obsolete, and that Democrats must flood the zone with content and outrage to match Trump’s relentless messaging.
"What Trump is showing you is a fundamentally different way of exercising power, that it's a muscle. And if you exercise it every single day... you don't give any breathing room, any oxygen for the opposition to be able to maneuver and respond." [07:16]
- Democratic slow adaptation: He criticizes his own party for not matching Trump's information tactics.
3. Epstein Files and Trump’s “Freakout”
[08:48-13:59]
- Trump’s reaction: Murphy analyzes Trump’s barrage of posts labeling the Epstein story a “hoax” as panic and guilt.
- Historical magnitude:
"It is clearly the biggest scandal in presidential history. And he wouldn't be acting this way if he wasn't so deeply worried about what sits in those files." [09:54] "Clearly, Donald Trump was at the center of a child sex ring. That is heartbreaking..." [10:16]
- Congressional action: House progress on file release may force Senate Republicans to act, especially under mounting public pressure—a dynamic Murphy urges Democrats to build upon.
4. Trump’s Pardons and Erosion of Accountability
[13:59-18:15]
- Mass pardons: Discussion of pardons for January 6 participants and those involved in the 2020 election scheme.
- Repercussions:
"There's likely nothing he has done that is a greater threat to our democracy... than the decision to pardon every single one of the January six protesters." [16:25]
- Constitutional reform: Murphy advocates for a national conversation about curtailing presidential pardon powers.
5. Will Trump Leave in 2028?
[18:17-19:40]
- Authoritarian risk: Murphy posits that Trump is actively seeking avenues to maintain power post-term—through the courts, his family, or changing or flouting legal norms.
"I think he is right now trying to scheme a way to be able to stay." [18:34]
6. Shutdown Politics and Democratic Dilemma
[19:47-25:00]
- Moral conundrum: Murphy delves into the difficulty of opposing Trump when he weaponizes compassion, acknowledging the pain this stance inflicts on the most vulnerable.
"Democracies die when the opposition just tries to bring everything back to normal as quickly as possible, allows the leader to be able to weaponize our compassion..." [21:05]
- Internal caucus dynamics: He describes the debate within the Democratic caucus over the shutdown, strategy, and principles.
7. Budget Fights—Not Just About Subsidies
[27:12-30:38]
- Broader concerns: Budget fights aren't just about ACA subsidies but about checking Trump’s corruption and preventing weaponization of federal power against dissent.
"I'm not voting for a budget that doesn't both extend the protection for people in our health care system, but also significantly check the President's destruction of our democracy." [30:08]
8. Democratic Leadership and Party Unity
[31:08-34:41]
- Demands for generational change: Quoting a Democratic colleague, Murphy stresses the need for unity and a commitment to defending democracy—leadership, including Chuck Schumer, must foster this cohesion.
"...if we aren't united today as a caucus moving forward, I don't think there's a path to save the democracy." [33:22]
9. Murphy on Possible 2028 Presidential Run
[34:44-37:26]
- No presidential ambitions: Murphy stresses that no one should focus on 2028 candidacies until democracy is secure.
- Grassroots investment: He outlines his strategy of redirecting campaign funds to organizing and protest groups nationwide.
10. Democratic Outlook for Senate, Messaging, and Mobilization
[37:26-42:59]
- Democratic renewal: Murphy sees a chance to retake the Senate, citing public frustration with Trump’s economic and ethical priorities.
- Importance of bolder promises:
"If Democrats get power, we are going to do radical things to transform our democracy, to make it work better for people." [41:38]
11. Cabinet Threat Assessment
[44:17-46:57]
- Most dangerous member?: Murphy ranks RFK Jr. as the most potentially damaging cabinet member, due to the risks posed by mishandling public health.
12. Optimism for American Recovery
[47:24-50:17]
- Despite the darkness, Murphy is optimistic:
"Democracy is still alive. We just saw it on Tuesday. People decided that they weren't staying home, that they weren't giving up." [47:55] "This is still the greatest experiment in governance in the history of the world... and I just feel like we are going to do our job. We are going to save this country, we are going to repair from it..." [49:53]
Audience Q&A Highlights
1. AI & Economic Displacement
[50:20-54:43]
- AI as existential crisis: Murphy warns that unregulated AI could destroy jobs, damage children, and democracy itself.
"This is a technology that if unregulated, may destroy us." [52:40]
- Suggests bipartisan action for regulation, including child protections, fake content watermarking, and copyright law updates.
2. Will the GOP End the Filibuster?
[54:43-56:44]
- Possible, but dangerous: Murphy notes GOP reluctance due to future Democratic Senate prospects; he favors reform to pass popular legislation.
3. Restoring Hope and Turnout
[56:44-58:40]
- Hope through big ideas: Murphy pushes for bold policies—like a $20 minimum wage and public financing of campaigns—to create genuine hope.
"You are not going to get people to feel hope unless you are proposing ideas that meet the moment..." [57:38]
4. Gun Violence in Schools
[58:40-62:25]
- Movement power: Murphy recounts organizing post-Sandy Hook and the eventual legislative win after Uvalde, proving that grassroots pressure works.
"We have proved the theory of our case that if you organize, if you take advantage of moments in Congress to pass legislation that tightens our gun laws, we will save lives." [61:31]
5. Demographic Shifts and Party Building
[62:32-66:22]
- Red-state strategy: Murphy argues for "bigger tent" economic populism and federal wage/safety standards to build coalitions in red states.
"...Trump has presented us with this opportunity to build an unprecedentedly large voting coalition..." [65:09]
Memorable Quotes
- On the nature of the current crisis:
"We don't have another year to save American democracy. We likely only have months." — Senator Chris Murphy, [17:42]
- On tolerating pain in the fight for democracy:
"Democracies die when the opposition just tries to bring everything back to normal as quickly as possible..." — Senator Chris Murphy, [21:05]
- On optimism:
"As much as I'm angry and anxious, I also feel super lucky to be alive at this moment. This is still the greatest experiment in governance in the history of the world..." — Senator Chris Murphy, [49:55]
Key Timestamps
- 02:03 — Murphy describes his early career and evolution
- 07:16 — "What Trump is showing you is..." [Power as a muscle]
- 09:54 — "He is in daily panic mode..." [Trump's reaction to Epstein files]
- 16:06 — On presidential pardons as a threat to democracy
- 21:05 — On opposition's role in the face of pain imposed by Trump
- 30:08 — Budget fights: “I am not voting for a budget that doesn’t both extend the protection for people in our health care system, but also significantly check the President’s destruction of our democracy.”
- 41:38 — "If Democrats get power..." [Need for radical democratic reforms]
- 47:55 — "Democracy is still alive..."
- 52:40 — "This is a technology that if unregulated, may destroy us."
- 61:31 — Gun violence: "We have proved the theory of our case..."
Episode Tone
- Frank, urgent, unflinchingly realistic, yet determinedly optimistic.
- Murphy’s remarks often blend personal candor with fierce partisanship and appeals to unity and big-tent organizing.
Conclusion
Senator Chris Murphy delivers a bracing, unsparing analysis of the dangers posed by the Trump administration, the need for Democrats to adapt and become more bold and inclusive, and the hard choices ahead for those committed to defending democracy. He closes with notes of hope, urging both activism and structural reform, and highlights the necessity—and possibility—of repairing and strengthening American democracy in a perilous era.