Conor Lamb Says Fetterman Isn’t Meeting The Moment. AOC Is On His Side.

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Conor Lamb Says Fetterman Isn’t Meeting The Moment. AOC Is On His Side Release Date: March 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of Bulwark Takes, Lauren Egan engages in a candid discussion with former Pennsylvania Congressman Conor Lamb. The conversation delves into Lamb's recent criticisms of his former Senate opponent, John Fetterman, his unexpected alignment with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC), and broader reflections on the Democratic Party's current trajectory.

1. Alignment with AOC and Policy Agreements

Conor Lamb opens the dialogue by addressing his alignment with AOC, emphasizing that their relationship has always been policy-driven rather than personal.

Conor Lamb [01:24]: "Sure. I mean, we actually were aligned on some policy issues, even though we disagree with others. And we never had any kind of a personal canvas. I think it was always sort of policy driven."

He underscores the importance of creating energy around town halls and ensuring that constituents feel heard and valued—a strategy he believes AOC exemplifies, contrasting it with what he perceives as a lack of engagement from other Pennsylvania senators.

2. Criticism of John Fetterman’s Performance

Lamb elaborates on his criticisms of John Fetterman, particularly regarding Fetterman’s interactions with AOC and perceived inaction on critical issues.

Conor Lamb [02:00]: "I've just been really alarmed. I mean, every single week what Trump and Musk are doing, you know, to the country, to Pennsylvania... People are being fired with no explanation."

Lamb expresses frustration over Fetterman's focus on less impactful engagements, such as attending joint events with Republican Senator Dave McCormick, rather than addressing pressing concerns like Social Security, Medicare, and the rule of law. He questions Fetterman’s priorities, highlighting a lack of tangible legislative accomplishments that directly benefit constituents.

3. Broader Democratic Party Reflections

The conversation shifts to a broader critique of the Democratic Party. Lamb contends that the party is struggling to stand up against the current administration's policies, particularly those implemented by Donald Trump and Elon Musk.

Conor Lamb [03:19]: "Why the Senate wasn't standing up for itself in this last funding fight, and more importantly, why they weren't standing up for... Social Security recipients, Medicare recipients, veterans."

He advocates for senators to adopt strong, clear positions on key issues that protect vulnerable populations, suggesting that steadfastness on these matters would garner public support and demonstrate effective leadership.

4. Engaging Constituents Through Town Halls

Lamb emphasizes the critical role of town halls in fostering democratic engagement and accountability.

Conor Lamb [05:33]: "People want to see their elected officials, Democrats and Republicans, out in their communities answering questions and then also asking questions on, on their behalf."

He criticizes the current Republican approach for creating a leadership vacuum by not holding similar events, thereby leaving Democrats the opportunity to fill the gap and connect more deeply with constituents.

5. Potential Internal Challenges Within the Democratic Party

Addressing concerns about a possible Tea Party-like movement within the Democratic ranks, where members might challenge incumbents perceived as insufficiently confrontational against Trump, Lamb offers a nuanced perspective.

Conor Lamb [07:28]: "I see people who are concerned about the democracy itself, our society itself, and what Trump is doing to change it for the worse."

He believes that rather than primaries against incumbents, there is a collective desire to engage more meaningfully with democratic processes to preserve and strengthen democracy.

6. Evaluating John Fetterman’s Recent Activities

Lamb comments on Fetterman’s recent collaboration with a Republican senator at a book event, interpreting it as a misplaced prioritization amidst pressing governmental failures.

Conor Lamb [13:17]: "It's hard to see any results from the approach that he's taking... He has this preference for sort of cozying up to an administration and cozying up to a party over speaking out on issues that are clearly hurting a lot of his constituents."

He stresses that while bipartisan collaboration can be positive, it should not come at the expense of addressing urgent constituent needs and holding the administration accountable.

7. Clear Stance Against Current Administration’s Actions

When prompted about specific actions he would urge Trump to cease, Lamb articulates clear directives aimed at preserving institutional integrity and the rule of law.

Conor Lamb [15:34]: "Stop attacking judges... We don't have our Constitution anymore."

He highlights the importance of these actions in maintaining the foundational principles of American democracy, drawing parallels to historical injustices to reinforce the gravity of adhering to the rule of law.

8. Future Engagements and Democratic Participation

Looking ahead, Lamb expresses his commitment to continued engagement through town halls and public forums, aiming to inspire constituents to actively participate in democracy.

Conor Lamb [17:21]: "Every time we're able to get out there and speak our minds and be critical, but also constructive and demand answers to the people that represent us, I think we're giving life to a democracy that otherwise might look like it was on life support."

He reiterates that his focus remains on empowering citizens and ensuring that their voices are heard, rather than seeking further political office.

Conclusion

Conor Lamb’s conversation on this episode of Bulwark Takes offers a critical examination of current Democratic strategies and leadership, particularly in the face of formidable Republican opposition. His insights advocate for greater transparency, constituent engagement, and steadfast advocacy for key social programs. Lamb’s alignment with AOC and his criticisms of John Fetterman underscore a call for the Democratic Party to more effectively mobilize and address the immediate concerns of their constituents to preserve and strengthen democratic principles.

Notable Quotes:

• Conor Lamb [01:24]: "We actually were aligned on some policy issues, even though we disagree with others."
• Conor Lamb [02:00]: "People are being fired with no explanation. You know, we're setting back the country as far as scientific research..."
• Conor Lamb [05:33]: "People want to see their elected officials... answering questions on their behalf."
• Conor Lamb [15:34]: "Stop attacking judges... We don't have our Constitution anymore."
• Conor Lamb [17:21]: "We're giving life to a democracy that otherwise might look like it was on life support."

This episode serves as a pivotal exploration of internal Democratic dynamics and the imperative for responsive, accountable leadership in turbulent political times.

Transcript

[Ryan]

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[Connor Lamb]

See terms and conditions 18+.

[Lauren Egan]

Hey, guys, it's Lauren Egan here at the Bulwark. I am joined today by former Pennsylvania Congressman Connor Lamb. Congressman, thanks for being here.

[Connor Lamb]

Thanks for having me. Nice to be here.

[Lauren Egan]

So I hit you up over the weekend because you had this Twitter exchange that I found to be very interesting. We're going to pull it up on the screen so folks can read it. But essentially you criticized your former Senate opponent, John Fetterman after he came for AOC when she said something about how the party needs to fight harder against Republicans and suggested that maybe Senator Schumer should not have backed that funding bill. All of which led AOC to then tweet at you. I was wrong about you and I'm sorry. So the big question, I guess is did you ever think you would be aligned with aoc?

[Connor Lamb]

Sure. I mean, we actually were aligned on some policy issues, even though we disagree with others. And we never had any kind of a personal canvas. I think it was always sort of policy driven. But times change. And right now I think the urgency of just being out there, interacting with people, creating energy around these town halls, reminding people that they have a voice and that they deserve to be listened to to, is really important. And she's one of the people doing it. And you know, my senator here in Pennsylvania, neither one of them are doing that. And I felt it was time to say something about it.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, talk to me a little bit about what motivated you in the first place to tweet that at Fetterman.

[Connor Lamb]

I've just been really alarmed. I mean, every single week what Trump and Musk are doing, you know, to the country, to Pennsylvania, you know, just honest people who are doing their jobs and signed up for public service and wanted to help. People are being fired with no explanation. You know, we're setting back the country as far as scientific research and all these important areas, you know, really harming the rule of law and probably worse than all of that, you know, Social Security is up for grabs now, and people are afraid and unsure about their benefits, and you don't hear anything from him about it. And I think for the first couple of months after the election, when he wanted to say things about Democrats, I understood where he was coming from. But there's just a point where you go, okay, we get it. You've said that 100 times. But you have a job now, and an enormous part of your job is oversight and demanding answers. And, you know, he supposedly, you know, is now Trump's favorite Democrat and has all this access. Why don't you use it to help your constituents?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. Do you think it's just a Fetterman issue, or do you see this as, like, a larger Democratic Party as a whole needs to be doing more?

[Connor Lamb]

Well, I think it's especially acute in his case because he's made such a big deal out of, you know, go to Mar A Lago and voting for Pam Bondi and things that I just can't see the logic in, you know, given everything that Trump is doing, what he obviously represents. The larger Democratic Party question obviously, is a tough one, but I shared the reaction of a lot of people that just wondered, you know, why the Senate wasn't standing up for itself in this last funding fight, and more importantly, why they weren't standing up for, I don't know, Social Security recipients, Medicare recipients, veterans. Pick one, you know, and. And. And die on that Hill because people will reward you for that. Those are, like, huge 90% positions to protect Social Security from Elon Musk.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. Why do you think Fetterman isn't doing more? Like, I mean, I know you can't necessarily get inside of his head, but do you think he thinks it's, like, smart politics in Pennsylvania, or what's kind of your read on why he's doing what he's doing?

[Connor Lamb]

I really don't know. And the point of what I'm trying to do right now is he should be out there explaining it. It shouldn't be a big mystery. But, you know, we only hear about him in these little sound bites he gives to reporters on his way to and from the floor or in the context of a little tweet. And. And so it's hard to understand what his end game is. But I think there's one thing we can say clearly, which is that he's been in office for over two years, and it's very hard to see any results from the approach that he's taking as far as, like, actual legislation accomplished for people as far as him protecting, you know, the veterans or Social Security beneficiaries or student loan holders or, you know, TSA agents in his state, you know, to say nothing of people who are being deported to El Salvadorian prisons. I mean, there's so many things happening that you don't get to hear from him about it. It does make you question just where his priorities are.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. We've talked a lot recently about this moment in the Democratic Party where it feels like things are split. Not necessarily long ideological lines, but it's more about a style and a willingness to fight against Trump. I'm curious if that's kind of your read of the situation and where, where the party is right now as well.

[Connor Lamb]

Yeah, I understand that's how it breaks down in the news stories, maybe. That's right. I'm not there every day and, you know, I've got a job and kids. And so I have not wanted to be the person weighing in on like, what all the elected Democrats should do because they have more information about it than I do right now. But if there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that people want to see their elected officials, Democrats and Republicans, out in their communities answering questions and then also asking questions on, on their behalf. Right. Like one of the things that Trump is doing is, is taking so many actions, harming so many people so quickly and denying the public information about the true implications of it. So, you know, we can't really say today how many of Pennsylvania's 75,000 federal employees have lost their jobs or will lose their jobs. But if we had senators that were doing their jobs, they could be insisting on answers to those kind of questions. And if they didn't get them, that's where they would draw the line and say, I'm not going to continue to fund an executive branch that refuses to do its constitutional job and work with the Senate on these really important issues of public policy in people's lives.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. We've also talked a lot, especially here at the Bulwark, about whether or not we could see sort of Tea Party like movement in 2026 for Democrats where you're going to see potentially this wave of first time candidates primaring incumbent Democrats who they feel like just aren't basically doing what you just said aren't doing enough to hold Trump accountable, to fight against him. Asking those questions. I'm curious, sort of, you know, being in Pennsylvania, what you're hearing from folks, whether you think that there is a potential that that could happen if there's enough sort of anger and frustration from folks on the ground.

[Connor Lamb]

You know, so far, I don't perceive people getting all the way into electoral politics. What I see is people who are concerned about the democracy itself, our society itself, and what Trump is doing to change it for the worse. And they want to participate, they want to engage, they want to get out and do these town halls. If they have to protest, they will. But I think they would prefer, you know, having their officials available to them on stage, taking questions from the crowd. So they. They want to go through kind of the essential components of a democracy for the next year and just find out where we are. There's a sense of bewilderment and confusion about not understanding what is really happening right now and how serious it is. And so I would discourage. I understand why people in the media want to ask about the political question, who's running against who and when. I think, for me, I would like to try to redirect attention as much as possible to we have a democracy we're trying to preserve. And a crucial part of that is making people feel like it's worthwhile to stand up and speak your mind and that you are entitled to answers from the people they're representing.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. So it sounds like, like a big part of this that you're talking about is sort of being more communicative and being more accessible to constituents. I know, like Tim Walls, Bernie aoc There's been folks that are out there, Rokhanna, that are holding events, answering questions. But it sounds like you're saying Republicans are kind of creating this leadership vacuum. They're not holding these kinds of events. And that Democrats should really feel that. I know you're also holding an event this weekend. Do you see Democrats as being able to play a bigger role there? And what are you hoping to sort of accomplish with. With the town hall that you're doing this weekend?

[Connor Lamb]

Yeah, absolutely. And this is a town hall in center county where State Colleges, Penn State, that was going to happen anyway. It was already planned, you know, before I ever sort of came along with our social media exchange last weekend. But they invited me to come appear at it, and of course, I said yes. I got to put my money where my mouth is now. Right. And. And yes, absolutely. There's an opportunity for Democrats to step up and. And just I don't think people realize that listening goes a really long way. And giving people a chance to speak their mind is important, you know, not just because it may lead to some direct action of people influencing the administration or piece of legislation or whatever. But it just keeps alive this culture that's so important to what America is, that people are free to speak their minds, that, you know, the elected officials work for us, not the other way around. Trump is trying to eliminate all of that. I mean, he wants everything to be about him. He wants all the power. And holding events like this is, I think, the most important thing we can do right now to prove that that view that Trump has is, is not popular out there in society, that people don't approve of Elon Musk messing around with their Social Security benefits, and that's probably the best deterrence you could hope for against this government.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. And there has been some reporting, some of these town hall events that Democrats have expressed. Democratic voters have kind of gotten frustrated with their representatives, especially around the funding bill fight, and kind of come at some lawmakers saying, you need to do more to fight against Trump. There's a sense sometimes, you know, lawmakers will maybe, you know, shy away from those kinds of confrontations. But do you think that there's a benefit to sort of hearing that from constituents and, like, having those tough conversations, even if it's someone who's not happy with the job that their official is doing? Like, it seems like there's something that the party can learn by having more of those conversations.

[Connor Lamb]

Yes, absolutely. And this is something, if you look at the class that came into Congress in 2018, you know that that small number of us that were from, you know, so called battleground districts, virtually every one of us promised our constituents we would hold town halls because our Republican predecessors were not doing it. And we did. And people come to them angry. Sometimes not everybody is angry at them, but sometimes people are angry. And sometimes they're people who are to your left, sometimes they're people who are to your right. It's nothing to be afraid of. Like, it's just part of the democratic process. And as someone that went through this dozens of times, like, it goes a really long way if you let people get things off their chest, you listen to them respectfully and you answer them respectfully. And I can say in having done all the ones I did, I never had a protest. I never had violence. I never had to stop it because people were being out of order, even though there was someone wearing a MAGA hat at every single one of them. Like, these were not Democratic pep rallies. So I saw the wave of stories last week that was like, oh, Democrats are surprised that some of their town halls, people are angry. I think that's a good thing. Like, we should show that we're the side that's not afraid of that.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. And we've talked a little bit about and in previous videos about there. You know, Biden couldn't hold any town halls during the start of his administration. And I think it could have because of COVID obviously, and it could have really benefited the party if they were out there, you know, talking to people a bit more. Maybe the back. The frustration around the economy wouldn't have been as much of a surprise if those conversations were being able to be held essentially earlier on. All of this kind of plays back into Fetterman. He is going on a booked event this week with Republican Senator Dave McCormick, who has a new book out about mentorship. So he is getting out there, but it is with his Republican counterpart. What do you make of that and what do you think he's trying to accomplish?

[Connor Lamb]

You know, I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish except that, you know, showing people that people from two different parties can get along and can work together is a good thing. And I would assume there's part of him that sort of looks at the election results in Pennsylvania and, you know, the low esteem that the Democratic Party is held in by a lot of people and says, you know, it's, it's a good thing to show people I'm willing to work with Republicans. And I agree that's a fine thing. It is. But this is happening in the context of Trump doing things every single day that are unprecedented. You know, I mean, Pennsylvania gets well over a trillion dollars. I think it's like a trillion and a half dollars from the Department of Education every year. You know, I mean, it funds high need public schools, it funds students that have disabilities. Like that happened in the last week, and where is he to be found on it? So what it starts to look like is that he has this preference for sort of cozying up to an administration and cozying up to a party over speaking out on issues that are clearly hurting a lot of his constituents, especially the most vulnerable ones. And so, you know, if, if we're able to accomplish anything, maybe it's just to influence him to reshuffle his priorities. I'm not saying don't ever work with David Cormack. I would never say that. I've done plenty of things with Republicans as well. But you have to look at the moment and understand, like, what your job requires. If you and McCormick and Fetterman both should be standing up to this administration. The things that I'M talking about are not partisan in their nature. It's like the rule of law, you know, I mean, it's, it's all American stuff. And I wish that they would focus on a. Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

You know, Fetterman was on the Bulwark podcast a few weeks ago, and Tim Miller asked him to name name one thing that he would tell Trump to stop doing. And I mean, it was interesting. Folks should go watch the, the interview. He struggled to answer it, quite frankly, which surprised me, because it seems like something, if you're an elected Democrat, you should be able to answer that. So I'm curious what your answer to that question would be. And do you think it's acceptable that the sitting Democrat from Pennsylvania can't provide a sound answer on that?

[Connor Lamb]

Yeah, that. I didn't hear the interview, but it's discouraging the way you describe it, you know, God, it's hard to. There's so many to choose from. I think I will, I will say this in, in the run up to the cr, I was sitting there wondering to myself, why doesn't Fetterman or Schumer or someone like that just say to Trump, you know what, we'll vote for your CR because we don't want to shut down. But you have to add one sentence to it, one little sentence to an enormous multi thousand page bill. And that sentence is, neither Elon Musk or anyone from the Department of Government Efficiency shall have any access to the Social Security Administration or the Social Security Trust Fund. They just cannot touch it, cannot go anywhere near it. You put that sentence in and we'll vote for your bill. You know, then it's on Trump to explain to the American people why, why he's not able to keep Elon Musk out of the hands of their Social Security. But, you know, even, even more immediate than that, I would say stop attacking judges. You know, if we live in a country where the President is able to, you know, initiate an impeachment of a judge because they rule against something that they like we don't have our Constitution anymore, you know, and, and people may sit around going, oh, well, you know, these unelected judges, they're trying to stop Trump, who was elected. Well, I'm sorry, that's not how America works. You know, like there was a majority in the south for slavery and Jim Crow too, wasn't there? And nobody looks back on that and says, like, they really should have let the majority have that away. Like, the rule of law is something, and it protects everybody and it places everybody in an equal moral position. It's a really important part of our society. I would definitely tell Trump to stop doing that. Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

So, like I mentioned, you've got this event this weekend. Do you see yourself as having a role to play in the coming months? Do you think. Think this is the first of, you know, many events you might. Might be doing?

[Connor Lamb]

I hope that there's a lot of events, and if people invite me to them, I'll go. You know, my. My desire, like, for my role is to show people that, you know, when you're looking at the news every day and you see powerful people, elites capitulating all the time. You know, law firms, universities, media organizations that Trump has sued. Thankfully, not the police work, you know, not yet. Really? Really. You know, you see Jeff Bezos paying Melania Trump $40 million for this ridiculous documentary. Like, everybody giving up their principles to please this guy. I don't want the example to be like, you should keep quiet too, citizen. Like, you have no ability to speak up. You're going to be punished if you do. Like, we still have our First Amendment rights. We still understand that this government belongs to us, not to Trump. And I think that every time we're able to get out there and speak our minds and be critical, but also constructive and demand answers to the people that represent us, I think we're giving life to a democracy that otherwise might look like it was on life support.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. Yeah. Any interest in running for office?

[Connor Lamb]

Again, that's not what this is about, and certainly not anytime soon. And I don't want people to make it about that because again, it's about people and their rights and their ability to. To stand up for themselves. That's all I want to encourage. So It's March of 2025, and if. If all that happens this year is people recover sort of their courage and their willingness to speak out, and they understand that, you know, the government actually does owe them answers. I'll be very happy.

[Lauren Egan]

Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Good luck this weekend. Come back on and let us know what you're hearing from folks. And thanks for your time.

[Connor Lamb]

Yeah, thanks for what you're doing, too.

[Ryan]

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[Ryan]

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