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- [00:00]
A
Hey, guys. Me, Sam Stein, managing out of the Bulwark here with Tim Miller again. We did this last night. We're doing a follow up today. Jim Kimmel, the fallout. Everything's happening. Kind of predictable, Tim, to see where it is. But yeah, we've seen a lot of the kind of free speech bro podcast types. Not too happy about this.
- [00:21]
B
Yeah, I think that it is. On the one hand, it's kind of predictable. Yes. On the other hand, it's a little bit of a pleasant surprise. I could do a lot of negative news around here. Right. Like, just as far as how many of them have spoken out about it. It's the type of thing you could just ignore. And none of these guys, it'd be one thing if it was like, they're coming from one of them. None of these guys that we're about to talk about who are podcasters, comedians, sports guys, they might seem to somebody who's outside of that world to be in the same world as Jimmy Kimmel, but, like, they're really not. Like, Jimmy is a different generation than them.
- [00:53]
A
Right.
- [00:53]
B
They don't have any love lost for the network liberal.
- [00:57]
A
They don't even find them funny. They're like, I didn't like, joke. They're like, stupid. Yeah, yeah.
- [01:01]
B
None of them really find him funny. Right. So. So for, for these guys, like, they could have just ignored this. Right. Like, like, that's, you know, one thing that you see oftentimes when there's inconvenient facts out there in the news. And so the fact that so many of them have spoken out, I think is pretty nowhere.
- [01:16]
A
Okay, which one do you find most noteworthy?
- [01:18]
B
That's a good question. I've been. No, I think the Barstool guys pushing back against the, the, the Dave Portnoy. Because, you know, for folks who know, obviously Barstool is, you know, kind of the irreverent sports focused podcast, but they've expanded into a bunch of culture areas.
- [01:33]
A
Sure.
- [01:34]
B
Portnoy is the founder of that. He came out pretty quickly, like, basically on the side of canceling Kimmel, right? Well, yeah, I mean, I have it right here, I think.
- [01:43]
A
So he was trying to draw some artificial distinction. But yes, he defended the cancellation.
- [01:48]
B
Yeah. He's trying to say, look, a lot of these guys were all upset about the cancel culture during the woke period. They're like, we didn't. People came after Portnoy. Like, there was this period of time where it was in vogue. Anytime somebody got a new job to go through tweets, they sent from eight Years before. And if they found something racist they said in there, they try to get them.
- [02:06]
A
In Portnoy's case, it was women who had come forward to accuse him of sexual misconduct, who he then denied and said, this is inflammatory and baseless and all that.
- [02:15]
B
So this was a very common thing that was happening. Whether or not whatever side you were of on it, Portnoy is obviously against that since he was a target of it. And so he comes up pretty quickly and says, guys, this isn't hypocrisy. This is not Cancel Culture. This is Jimmy Kimmel saying something on a show that embarrassed to the network and him and him having consequences for it. And so he kind of comes out in favor of this move. And so that's what I thought the most interesting thing was coming from other big barstool characters who pushed back on it. Maybe we can watch a couple of those clips.
- [02:45]
A
Let's watch. Let's watch the one first from KFC Barstool.
- [02:48]
C
Now the next part of the situation. Nextstar announced they were trying to merge with their biggest rival that would create this one gigantic media conglomerate. But the problem was that kind of violates FCC rules about how much power one group can have on television. But just recently, Brendan Carr, our boy, Mr. Hypocrite, said that his mind was open to getting rid of those artificial limits on how many TV stations one company can own. Now, how do nexstar and Carr connect? Well, Brendan Carr went on a podcast and said he believes the individual license stations are the ones that need to step up and say, we don't want Jimmy Kimmel. So nexstar, who's trying to get this merger done and needs to break the rules and needs the FCC to change their mind on some of the laws, sees Brendan Carr saying, here's what I want from you guys, and they say, let's fucking give it to him so that we can get our merger done and get our $6.2 billion. It's always about the money. It's never about the free speech. It's never about protecting rights. It's always about the money and how to get it. I was dead wrong. Shit is fucked on so many levels.
- [03:45]
A
So, yeah, like, I agree with you. In fact, I think the notable thing here is that they're coming out and they're being like, okay, maybe it's not Cancel Cultural, but it's worse. Yeah, it's like. It's like the government here is now involved in going after people. Whereas, you know, during Cancel Culture, it was, you know, a mob of online, you know, sickos who are saying, oh, this tweet is offensive. You know, and I get why it might be worse. I get why they say that. So I do agree with you. I think that's notable. I think it's notable because precisely they're saying, or at least casting themselves a little bit differently than Dave is.
- [04:22]
B
Yeah. And, you know, because you could see, again, like I said, you could see them saying, like, ah, the big guys on the other side of this. Why. Why draw attention? Who cares? I'll talk about something else today. Right. Like, they didn't. There's no obligation to talk about this story. So the fact that they chose to, I think, shows it was a legitimate reaction. I think the other thing about that KFC clip, I do want to point out, sometimes on the left, you see people really kind of stereotype the bro culture and be like, these guys are idiots or whatever. They just want to do boobs and stuff. That dude, like, that's a pretty, like, nuanced and thoughtful.
- [04:53]
A
It was very well thought out.
- [04:55]
B
Yeah. And so I just. I do think that, like, sometimes a lot of people who don't ever actually see any of these guys, except if it shows up in their Twitter feed with them saying something dumb and then they're like, wow, those shows are dumb. It's like, no, actually, some of them, at least not everybody like anything else, but some of them are super thoughtful and. And I think that's noteworthy. The more aggressive version of this.
- [05:12]
A
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I gotta stay on topic. Because my favorite response was also in Barstool. It wasn't on video. It was on Twitter as Barstool. Nate, Ethan, Eric, Nathan. Sorry, He. He tweeted about this and he's like, look, this is. You might think Kimmel's terrible. Not funny, whatever, but this is, you know, overreach. I think he said. Yeah, he said, this is overreach and pretty insane. Wish people didn't let political affiliation blur how bananas things are right now. Whatever. That's standard, you know, anger over what happened. But the best part was some random person in his replies goes, what the fuck does MAGA and an employer that has to answer sponsors and ad dollars have to do with this? You think Trump called and cancel? Or else, like, just a stream of replies being like, yes, exactly. That's exactly what happened. I mean, like, you literally go down the feed and it's like, first. First bar. Nate's like, I mean, this is almost exactly what happened.
- [06:09]
B
Lol.
- [06:10]
A
Glad you see how crazy is. And then everyone Else is like, yes, that's what happened. This is what happened. And so there is a some rever aversion to what's happening.
- [06:18]
B
Okay, version. So the other one's a partial one I think is important. And I did play this for jvl. This even got the dark heart of JVL at the end of today's podcast. I want to ruin it for people who haven't seen the podcast, but even see the dark heart of JBL crack after listening to this. But let's listen to the Kirk Minahane show. Kirk Minahan does actual. He, he has a different show where he's on with Port Roy. So again, like, this is not even just an employer. It's. It's like a direct rebuttal. Let's watch.
- [06:46]
D
I always do Left or no. Right now in 2025 at 1006 on September 18, the extreme right are the biggest group of pussies that has ever existed in America. A bunch of because people with, with green hair at Starbucks and because once in a while a fucking guy swam against girls, you fucking pussies have broken in half. Led by the duo of, of Donald Trump and Consequence Culture Portnoy, who is just waving his arms at the right to like him again. After the thing last week where he said it was Trump's fault privately, publicly, that Charlie Kirk died. Now he's like, I got to get them back. I got to get them back. I got them back. Typical. I will say, fits the tribe profile.
- [07:31]
B
All right, so, yeah, so that dude Mini Hayne is kind of into him. Is like, yeah, I'm kind of into it too. But here's the thing, man. That dude is like a conservative. We were talking about this a little bit in the green room is worth talking about. Some of these five guys, some of these guys, like, aren't really like even MAGA or traditional. Like, they're not church going whatever you think is the typical, like conservative. Like, they're, they're, they're culturally in the conservative milieu now, right for the moment.
- [07:56]
A
But I felt like they were mostly drawn there because they just thought liberals were so natty and annoying and like Covid.
- [08:04]
B
Right. They didn't like the rules. It's more of like kind of libertarian. Not, not again, not like the principled libertarian sense, but just in the sense of like, get off my fucking back libertarian sense. And that dude is out there not just saying that this is bad and wrong, not just doing the well, like, oh, this is a chill on free speech. He's out there being like, not only is this chill on free speech, but these guys are fucking pussies right now that they're so. That they're complaining about this so bad. It's like, oh, you can't take a little joke from Jimmy Kimmel. Oh, the Starbucks barista is mean to you. And to me, I think that's actually super important because A, it's coming from inside the house on barstool, B, it's using the language of barstool to go after Maga. It's like, stop being such snowflakes about all this. Like so. And I think that could work, actually, that could resonate with.
- [08:47]
A
It resonates because it's. I mean, it's true.
- [08:49]
B
It's also true.
- [08:50]
A
I mean, I'm thinking about a lot of all this and it's just kind of just boils down to. Is that these guys just don't have. They have the thinnest skin, right? Like the Kimmel thing was like a line from Monday and it wasn't even that. It wasn't funny particularly, but it wasn't like wildly offensive as far as everything else goes. But they have really thin skin. And so Trump's on Air Force One. And, and this is the quote he says today after all this, he says, when you have a network and you have evening shows and all they do is hit Trump, that's all they do. If you go back, I guess they haven't had a conservative one in years or something. When you go back and take a look, all they do is hit Trump. And he's just complaining about it. And he says 97% of them are against him. They're getting a license. I think maybe their licenses should be taken away. It's just he's got really thin fucking skin. He said they're not allowed to do it. They're licensed. They're not allowed to do that to Trump. I mean, give me a break, man.
- [09:46]
B
He's always had thin skin. That's been the.
- [09:48]
A
I know.
- [09:49]
B
After Spy magazine. For what they make fun of his small hands. Small. Yeah, the tiny hands. And this is like a 40 year old story at this point. Fucking. I know, but you would think at.
- [10:00]
A
A certain point, like, you're the most powerful dude in the world. Like, you got billions of dollars gone through shady means, but whatever. You got the money, like, you can do whatever you want. Like, give it a rest, who cares? But not this man. There is nothing that can't get under his skin.
- [10:16]
B
I want to talk about a couple other ones that's more into the sports kind of culture space. And there's the comedy culture space.
- [10:25]
A
Right.
- [10:25]
B
And so we can kind of lump all these together. I guess the first one I'll throw out there is because I've been talking about him a lot. So if you're following the feed quotes.
- [10:31]
A
Tim Dillon. Tim Dillon. Tim Dillon.
- [10:32]
B
You know that I'm talking about Tim Dillon.
- [10:34]
A
Yes.
- [10:34]
B
It's so good. His shit is so funny. And every. And sometimes it's like, it's a little like, all right. Oh, wait, I forgot. I forgot. I was watching a MAGA podcast right now. Occasionally happens to me. But the dude is relentless and I think it's important here. And this. He posts an Instagram post today. Yeah. It's like. And here it is. We'll put it up on the screen. And you know, it talks about how this is a bad sign. And then he makes a joke at the end about how he's going to continue to support Israel because Carolina has.
- [11:05]
A
Unconditionally in all of its actions.
- [11:08]
B
The other thing he's been pointing out is that like the people have been cut. Like the cancel culture for the administration has been coming for people that criticize Israel, you know, in addition to people who criticize Trump. So. So he's making a gag on that. That's pretty funny. Andrew Schultz made a post. He's another one of these podcast guys. The guy Pete Buttigieg went on. Maybe people remember that he's on the show Tires, which is really funny. And his post is a little bit more kind of both sides. But again, we'll take it. Moving from doing Trump apologia to both sides is directional.
- [11:37]
A
I didn't really get the first part of the post, but I'm sure I can.
- [11:40]
B
It's not the best post. We'll skip. I just. I thought it was worth noting that again, just to show the breadth of this. Here's his co host, though, actually. Yes. Akash Singh on his podcast. It's a flagrant pod. And this. This dude. Well, anyway, let's just watch it.
- [11:54]
E
Jimmy Kimmel should be allowed to say the things we didn't like. That's just what America is.
- [11:57]
B
Yeah.
- [11:58]
E
And freedom of speech. I've seen it truly under attack in India where it's like, you can go to jail. This is closer to that than I think what the left was doing.
- [12:07]
B
Yeah.
- [12:08]
E
Which is like the FCC putting as much as we didn't like left wing shit like far left policy or far left. Whatever. Thoughts? It wasn't like Joe Biden was putting pressure on somebody to get canceled for saying retard. You see what I'm saying? That's what makes this different and scarier to me and closer to what India has then that's what makes it an actual attack on free speech to me.
- [12:28]
B
Yeah. So there it is right there at the end. As much as we hated left wing shit, this is different. Again, scarier.
- [12:34]
A
Yes. And that's what, that's my point. They're like, yeah, they're able to process that this is like a level beyond because the power of the state is behind it.
- [12:41]
B
If you put this into the bigger context, right. Of like the changing vibes around all this. If you're these guys, like what are the big issues that you were talking about about the, like what moves you to the right? Right. You're a comedian, so obviously care about free speech. Right. Like you obviously. And you did not like the cancel culture. You don't like the woke sc. You didn't like. These were pretty minor complaints in the grand scheme of things. But it is true that the Biden administration did go to the tech companies about certain misinformation posts.
- [13:12]
A
Can I just be. I want to be clear. My understanding of that is that Rob Flaherty reached out to a contact at Facebook and said, hey, can you take this shit down? Like that was the extent of it.
- [13:22]
B
Yeah, no, it was mid level Biden.
- [13:24]
A
It wasn't like Joe Biden telling like.
- [13:26]
B
Yeah, no, it wasn't. I'm just saying, I'm just saying that did happen. That happened.
- [13:29]
A
Yeah.
- [13:31]
B
They complain about. I don't think it was Zuckerberg.
- [13:33]
A
Zuckerberg acted like he had been like, you know, his fortune had been ripped apart.
- [13:39]
B
Zuckerberg, that was the biggest threat to free speech in the history of the society that he. That one of his mid level staffers got emailed from one of Biden's mid level flunkies with a request that they didn't follow.
- [13:48]
A
I mean the thing about that I guess is that like I had mid level Biden people screaming at me basically every day for like three and a half years. Like that was part of life. And these platforms, what do they think that the administrations don't do that stuff like that always confused me. But whatever.
- [14:03]
B
Yes, they're also, they also have thin skin. This is why this all goes back to people having thin skin. If you think about these guys, that was, it was Covid restrictions, free speech stuff were basically their animating issues, frankly. And moving to the right on top of that. Because they were never really conservatives. They're not really keen on the war stuff either. That was another thing that drew them to Trump. Trump was kind of anti war stuff. A lot of them were in on Epstein issues. That's something they followed conspiracies, right? And, and, and they weren't big on the immigration stuff, right? Like it was like, well, whatever, I don't, you know, you shouldn't be here illegally. But none of these guys are like, like immigration hardliners, right? So if you think of that basket of issues, right, of what they cared about, why they went to Trump, Trump is abandoning them on all of them. Like on literally all of them. Like on the Epstein shit, he's doing a cover up. He's on the free speech shit, he's being worse than Biden on the no wars and he's giving full support to Israel, you know, maybe mixed on that for some of them. But he's starting war with Venezuela potentially right now. He's like bombed two boats in the Caribbean, right. Like, he's not exactly going fully anti war. And then on the immigration stuff where they weren't with him, that's the area where he's being the most aggressive, right? And so if you just sort of think about that, I think that is meaningful because. Not just because these eight comedians who have popular podcasts are, are changing their tone because they're like representative of a class of people that Trump and the Republicans did really well with that helped him win the election. And so that's noteworthy.
- [15:31]
A
I think that's right. I think there's all in the idea that it's representative, I think is important to discuss. Because, look, I mean, like any entertainer with an audience, these people to a degree are a little bit captured by their audience. And by that, I mean, they want to reflect where their audiences are. And so if they're saying this stuff, it's both personal opinion coming out, but also they understand how their audiences feel. They have an intuitive understanding of that. And so I think it matters, I think it's a signifier. I don't know, like, you know, who knows what, what it means when like you have a binary choice at the ballot box, right? Because of course these things are, you know, not. These things are, are not, you know, right next to an election. It's sort of in a vacuum. But I do think this is important and I do think people are like, I think the Trump people kind of, I think glaciers put this up. I think they're overreading how much people have an appetite for this status stuff. It's just. Who asked for this. Right. Like, who wanted this?
- [16:32]
B
And here's the other thing. Not to just go too upside, not to go too positive, Tim, today.
- [16:37]
A
But you're feeling positive today. I'm not.
- [16:40]
B
Well, I just think this is a positive indicator and this is the reason why, like, if he's going to be successful in his authoritarian takeover. Right. Like the worst, if he's going to be successful at squashing speech, like you would begin to send see signals that people are cowed. Right. That they're worried. Right. And that they're going to start shutting up. And we're just not. We're seeing in one area where there's one. Well, we're seeing across other institutions. But I just mean in the speech and commenting against Trump, we're seeing it one place, which is at corporate media. As you do notice a lot of commentators on TV at the major outlets doing the caveats. I asked Stelta about this today where it's like, you know, this is the bad thing. But I should say also, like, you know, there's a little bit of that. Like, like you do see that a little bit. But besides that, you know, obviously independent media people aren't worried. Folks here aren't worried. Subscribe to the blog and like, and people that are pro, even like pro Trump are not afraid. So I don't know. He's being called, he's being called celebrating, but that's a good sign.
- [17:43]
A
No, it's fine. It's fair. And he's being called out about it. I mean, there are people on the right who have been very skeptical of this. People who are like, really, you know, who slammed Pam Bondi, for instance, over her hate speech remarks. There's people who on the right who've been worried about Kimmel. Right. Like, I get it. But I do think, you know, the chilling effect is real. Like, and I'll just, I know you said corporate media and I'm just going to give you an example of corporate media for people out there because I've been kind of refreshing the pages all day today and I want to make sure I have this absolutely right because I would hate to be wrong about this, but the Washington Post, it is.
- [18:21]
B
Well, this has to be good news because the Washington Post has recommitted their editorial page, they announced, to free speech and free markets. So they've got to have weighed in on this pretty strongly, I would guess, right?
- [18:31]
A
They, up until like a little while ago, it was just this afternoon, had completely avoided the Jimmy Kimmel ouster news. And only after a little While did they get the guy who is a chief counsel at the foundation for Individual Rights and Expression Fire, which is a great institution, did they get him to write an opinion piece on it? But if you go to their editorial page, their actual editorial page, which is where the newspaper is supposed to put its positions into print, there's nothing on Kimmel. There's something on Pam Bondi and what she said, but it's, you know, it's written in like a, well, the left did it too type thing. There's something on Trump and TikTok, but the title is Trump's TikTok deal. A triumph or a giveaway? There's nothing on Kimmel. And so, like, you know, maybe there's gonna. Maybe they will. Maybe they'll have something up soon enough. I hope they do. But, like, I think this is a case where outlets are like, I don't want to just deal with this trouble. I just don't want to deal with the trouble. And that is predominantly in corporate media. Like, we don't give a shit. Right? But corporate media still matters. Broadcast media still matters. It reaches a lot of people. And, you know, I find that to be obviously really concerning. But you should subscribe to the Bulwark.
- [19:48]
B
Because we do other concerning things. I just to say, just to close, not to be Pollyanna, because I did cover this with Steltar, but for folks who didn't see that, I'm deeply concerned about the local news side of it, like the Sinclair, what they're doing.
- [20:02]
A
Oh, yeah. Are you excited for the Friday night Sinclair tribute to Charlie Kirk?
- [20:07]
B
Not really the merger of nexstar and Tegna, but we might be getting to a place where the local media is very foxish in huge swaths of the country, and that is bad. So there's a lot of stuff to be worried about. I'm just saying. I'm just trying to notice positive things when I see them, that's all.
- [20:24]
A
I appreciate that. I appreciate that. As Tim noted, if you like media that doesn't feel that it has to shut up in order to get on the good side of Big Brother, subscribe to the Bulwark, including our YouTube feed. Subscribe to our substack page. Pay for the subscription. We appreciate it. It funds good journalism like this. Tim, thank you, man. Talk to you later, buddy.
- [20:47]
B
Appreciate it. Later, Holmes.