Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – "Could The Rage after LA Defeat Trump or Embolden Him?"

Introduction

In the June 9, 2025 episode of Bulwark Takes, hosted by The Bulwark's team member JVL and publisher Sarah Longwell, the discussion centers around the escalating tensions following the Trump administration's intensified ICE deportations targeting Los Angeles. This episode delves into the effectiveness of protests in influencing political outcomes, particularly in the context of President Donald Trump's controversial immigration policies.

Current Situation: ICE Deportations in Los Angeles

The episode opens with JVL highlighting the severity of the Trump administration's actions in Los Angeles. The administration has ramped up mass deportations, leading to widespread protests against ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) raids. This aggressive stance has not only provoked significant public outcry but also led President Trump to deploy the National Guard against California's Governor's wishes, exacerbating the already tense situation.

• JVL at [00:45]: "This provoked some protests against the ICE raids and the President then over the weekend called up the National Guard against the express wishes of the Governor of California."

Effectiveness of Protests: A Double-Edged Sword

JVL initiates a critical examination of protests, questioning their efficacy. He draws parallels with historical movements, such as Poland's Solidarity movement and America's civil rights struggle, to explore whether contemporary protests like those against ICE are achieving their intended outcomes.

• JVL at [06:09]: "Without passing any value judgment on Occupy Wall Street or Black Lives Matter or like the Campus Gaza protests, just from a purely... did this create an outcome that was helpful to the cause? I think the answer is pretty clearly no."

Sarah Longwell acknowledges the traditional role of protests in social justice but expresses skepticism about their current impact, especially in the absence of unifying leadership.

• Sarah Longwell at [05:18]: "I went to my very first rally on Friday for the free Andre before the show that we did. And that was my first rally like that."

Historical Context and Leadership in Movements

The conversation shifts to the significance of leadership in protest movements. Sarah emphasizes the strategic non-violence of the civil rights movement, contrasting it with modern protests that lack clear leadership and PR strategies, which can lead to mixed public perceptions.

• Sarah Longwell at [08:04]: "Like the protest movement that Martin Luther King led and the civil rights movement was enormously cognizant of the PR components of protests."

JVL adds that no protest can be entirely free of violence due to the sheer number of participants, arguing that expecting perfection is unrealistic.

• JVL at [07:32]: "There is no such thing as a perfect protest. Right. I mean, they're messy."

Impact of Trump's Policies on Protest Dynamics

The discussion delves deeper into how Trump's hardline immigration policies have disrupted previously tacit social agreements regarding undocumented immigrants. Sarah explains that long-standing under-the-table agreements allowed communities to absorb undocumented workers, but Trump's stance has shattered this balance, leading to widespread community backlash.

• Sarah Longwell at [12:50]: "We basically just. Everybody kind of said as a... Like, we don't have the system to process everybody."

JVL reflects on the unpredictable nature of protest movements, citing the recent Capitol riot as an example where violent protests failed to achieve meaningful support, ultimately harming their cause.

• JVL at [18:00]: "There was a protest movement in America not that long ago in which people walked around with long guns and improvised weapons and they went to the United States Capitol... That's not true because they, they had a lot of conviction."

Challenges in Mobilizing Mass Protests Against Trump

Sarah raises concerns about whether the current situation in Los Angeles can serve as a catalyst for a broader national mobilization against Trump. She fears that Trump may exploit any ensuing chaos to strengthen his position, especially if violent incidents become prominent in media portrayals of protests.

• Sarah Longwell at [16:20]: "I think that makes it hard for me to feel great about it happening, is because he is desperately looking for a reason. He's just sitting there saying, give me a reason to come in and screw you guys up."

JVL counters by questioning the consistency of the impacts of protest movements, noting that some have succeeded despite apparent setbacks.

• JVL at [19:07]: "Sometimes a movement can get away with this stuff, and it's hard to. It's hard to parse why."

Potential Outcomes and Future Directions

The hosts ponder whether the current rage and protest movements will culminate in a significant shift against Trump or simply fragment into smaller, less impactful actions. They discuss the importance of a clear end goal and the necessity for large-scale, sustained efforts to outbalance any negative perceptions caused by isolated violent incidents.

• Sarah Longwell at [20:11]: "Do you see what I'm saying? Like, you know, can you focus on illegal stuff? But maybe this is wrong. As I said, I have many more questions than answers."

JVL concludes by emphasizing the unpredictable nature of protest movements and the challenges in steering them towards desired outcomes without clear leadership.

• JVL at [19:58]: "It is, the wrongness of that, is the fact that Trump pardoned them like that is. But it, of course it did damage to Republicans in the short term, not the kind of damage it should have done."

Conclusion

The episode of Bulwark Takes presents a nuanced exploration of the current protest landscape in the United States, particularly in response to the Trump administration's immigration policies. While acknowledging the historical power of protests in driving societal change, both JVL and Sarah Longwell express concerns about the effectiveness and strategic direction of contemporary movements. They highlight the complexities introduced by aggressive political tactics and the absence of unified leadership, questioning whether the current wave of dissent can either defeat Trump or inadvertently strengthen his political footing.

Notable Quotes

• JVL [06:09]: "Did this create an outcome that was helpful to the cause? I think the answer is pretty clearly no."
• Sarah Longwell [08:04]: "The protest movement that Martin Luther King led... was enormously cognizant of the PR components of protests."
• Sarah Longwell [16:20]: "He is desperately looking for a reason. He's just sitting there saying, give me a reason to come in and screw you guys up."

Key Takeaways

1. Polarized Opinions on Protests: Both hosts recognize the historical significance of protests but remain skeptical about their current effectiveness without strategic leadership.
2. Impact of Trump's Policies: The administration's stringent immigration enforcement has disrupted social agreements, leading to heightened tensions and protests in communities like Los Angeles.
3. Leadership and Strategy: Successful movements require clear leadership and PR strategies to maintain public support and achieve goals, a factor they find lacking in today's protests.
4. Potential for Backlash: Violent incidents within protest movements can undermine the overall cause, offering political opponents like Trump opportunities to strengthen their positions.
5. Unpredictable Outcomes: The hosts acknowledge the inherent unpredictability of protest movements, making it challenging to determine their ultimate impact on political landscapes.

This engaging and comprehensive discussion provides listeners with a deep understanding of the complexities surrounding modern protest movements and their potential ramifications on the political scene, especially in the context of President Trump's policies and actions.