Bulwark Takes – "Could This Bonkers Idea Actually Corner Trump?"

Date: August 18, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller, JVL (author of The Triad newsletter)
Main Theme:
The episode explores the provocative idea of Democratic governors responding to Trump’s deployment of red state National Guard units in Washington, D.C. by sending their own blue state troops—an exercise in brainstorming creative resistance moves, the complications of such a proposal, and a broader discussion of strategies to push back against authoritarian maneuvers.

Episode Overview

Tim Miller and JVL engage in a candid, sharply analytical discussion about fighting back against Trump’s “authoritarian takeover”—specifically, whether Democratic governors should confront Trump’s move to deploy red state National Guards in D.C. by sending their own units. The conversation moves beyond the feasibility of this plan, using it as a springboard to debate broader strategies for the Democratic opposition in the current political landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Provocative "Modest Proposal"

• JVL's Idea:
  JVL introduces the proposal (inspired by social media) that blue state governors—like Wes Moore (Maryland), JB Pritzker (Illinois), or Gavin Newsom (California)—send their own National Guard troops to Washington, D.C., paralleling red state deployments.
  • "Why shouldn't blue state governors... say, oh, we're going to send national guard troops to D.C. and our national guard troops are going to be there to watch for law breaking... including by people who purport to be agents of the state?" (JVL, 02:13)
• Tim’s Immediate Reaction:
  Acknowledges the idea is outlandish but prefers creative brainstorming over passivity:
  • "...rather have some fucking creative ideas... rather than the moaning and bellyaching... that we've seen from some quarters." (Tim, 00:30)

2. Chain of Command and Legal Quagmires

• Complexities & Questions:
  The hosts break down why the proposal is almost certainly unworkable, with practical concerns about command authority and legal jurisdiction.
  • "Who is the National Guards that are going... who are they reporting to?" (Tim, 02:53)
  • "Nominally your adjutant general... but then once they get to D.C., where does that chain of command fall?" (JVL, 03:31)
• Hypotheticals & Political Theater:
  Even if a blue state governor attempted this, the courts might have to settle it—a spectacle that could clarify power dynamics but almost certainly wouldn’t happen.
  • "It would be very clarifying to have the president... in court saying, I don't want the National Guard from this Democratic state showing up into Washington, D.C. that would be very clarifying." (JVL, 05:24)

3. The Strategy Vacuum and the Whitmer Approach

• Passive vs. Provocative Approaches:
  The gap in Democratic strategy is highlighted. JVL laments that many Democrats seem to be “hoping that Trump isn't successful” rather than actively countering him.
  • "For so much of the Democratic establishment, it seems like there is no strategy. There's just this closing your eyes and hoping that Trump isn't successful. And that, I think, isn't a strategy." (JVL, 08:57)
• Whitmer’s Pragmatism:
  Discussion of Axios’s story about Gov. Gretchen Whitmer attempting to build rapport with Trump. The hosts weigh the merits and risks of currying favor with authoritarians:
  • "If she seems not scary to MAGA voters, she can maintain a level of popularity in Michigan that prevents an authoritarian takeover from, from working well." (Tim, 07:28)
  • JVL compares this to European leaders flattering Trump for strategic advantage but calls it a “morally repugnant calculation.” (JVL, 08:33)

4. Learning from GOP Tactics—“The Democrats Need Their Own Ron DeSantis”

• Provocation for Strategic Clarity:
  The idea is less about the specifics of National Guard deployments and more about learning from Republican governors like Ron DeSantis, who provoked open conflict to force federal responses and create political theater.
  • "Is there a way to... look at that model and say hey, it's a way for Democratic governors to say, okay, how can I provoke a showdown that forces the administration to put up or shut up?" (Tim, 06:22)
• Try Everything:
  Both hosts agree there’s inherent uncertainty in what will work; thus, a variety of tactics should be tested.
  • "Because nobody knows what will work, you got to try everything." (JVL, 11:36)

5. The Limitations of Hope and the Need for Action

• Don’t “Sit Back and Hope”
  The episode repeatedly urges Democratic leaders to move beyond hope for a conventional electoral backlash and actually “push back aggressively enough” to deter expansion of undemocratic moves.
  • "I would like to see a little bit of people just... realize that things are bad, that they've been... lying to them... that's not a strategy." (JVL, 09:05)
  • "...offering just a suggestion, but... it's a conversation starter that pushes people to okay, how do you actually push back aggressively enough...?" (Tim, 10:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There are no bad ideas. And today Axios has a story that Gretchen Whitmer... going to try really working with Donald Trump. And I think, great, again, no bad ideas. Good for her to try that." (JVL, 01:02)
• "Who are the National Guards... reporting to? Like, who does? Like if you are, you know, Elmer Huckleberry from Beckley, West Virginia, and you're going to D.C. you've been deployed by your state's governor, who are you reporting to?" (Tim, 02:53)
• "It would be very clarifying... to have the president... in court saying, I don't want the National Guard from this Democratic state showing up into Washington, D.C." (JVL, 05:24)
• "...the Democrats need their own Ron DeSantis." (Tim, 06:09)
• "For so much of the Democratic establishment, it seems like there is no strategy. There's just this closing your eyes and hoping that Trump isn't successful. And that, I think, isn't a strategy." (JVL, 08:57)
• "Because nobody knows what will work, you got to try everything." (JVL, 11:36)
• "Trump did everything. I mean, think about all the shit that Trump puts out there on his social media that just ends up becoming a fart in the wind that dissipates. Some of the stuff hits, some doesn't. And so I think that's a good strategic lesson there." (Tim, 12:05)

Important Timestamps

• 00:15 – Introduction to the "Modest Proposal" and context for the episode
• 01:02 – JVL pitches the National Guard idea
• 02:46 – Exploration of the command structure and logistical complications
• 04:47 – Why the proposal is mostly unworkable but “clarifying”
• 06:01 – Analogy to DeSantis-style political theater and provocations
• 07:06 – Discussion of Whitmer’s approach and Axios coverage
• 08:33 – Moral and strategic criticisms of trying to cooperate with Trump
• 10:15 – On the need for more aggressive counter-strategies
• 11:36 – Conclusion: try everything, model Trump and GOP “throw everything at the wall” tactics

Conclusion

This spirited episode urges Democrats to abandon “sit back and hope” mindsets and instead embrace a wider range of tactics—even outlandish or tongue-in-cheek ones—to force showdowns, clarify stakes, and resist authoritarian maneuvers. The show is equal parts practical strategy discussion and political provocation, wrapped in Bulwark’s trademark blunt, wry tone.