Loading summary
Transcript38 lines
- [00:00]
A
How do you make an Airbnb a vrbo. Picture a vacation rental with a host who's showing you every room like you've never seen a house before. Now get rid of them. There you go. No host ever. Now it's a vrbo. Make it a vrbo.
- [00:15]
B
Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here with my colleague jvl, author of the Triad newsletter, which you better be signing up for. Go to the bulwark.com get that triad. He has a provocative one today, let's say a thinker, where he suggests maybe a more creative way for Democratic governors to fight back against the authoritarian takeover. And let me say there's no bad ideas in a brainstorm and I certainly would rather have some fucking creative ideas for what Democratic governors could be doing to push back about this rather than the moaning and bellyaching about, you know, that we've seen from some quarters. So jvl, why don't you just start us out by making the pitch, the headline, A Modest proposal Send Blue State national guards to D.C. yeah.
- [01:02]
C
So listen, like you said, there are no bad ideas. And today Axios has a story that Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan has a really interesting idea, which is that she's going to try really working with Donald Trump. And I think, great, again, no bad ideas. Good for her to try that.
- [01:17]
B
We'll see how there's some bad ideas. I said there are no bad ideas. In a brainstorm. We'll see how they're bad actions. They're bad, you know, but what, what.
- [01:26]
C
I said this is not an original idea. Somebody, somebody on Blue sky suggested this weekend and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it and is what if? So over the weekend we had the President, United States requesting that some red state governors in Ohio and West Virginia and South Carolina send their National Guard troops into Washington D.C. to help fight crime. I guess we'll just pretend fight crime.
- [01:51]
B
I guess. Yeah.
- [01:53]
C
And I thought, well, huh, Westmore is sitting right there. I mean, we care a great deal about government efficiency. Doge, Right. And Doge is a way of life like Buddhism. It would be much cheaper, one assumes, to bring in National Guard troops from Maryland where there is a Democratic governor right there. And so why shouldn't blue state governors and Westmore is the most obvious example. But it could be JB Pritzker, it could be Gavin Newsom. Why shouldn't they say, oh, we're going to send national guard troops to D.C. and our national Guard troops are going to be there to Watch for law breaking. And our National Guard troops will not be wearing masks. They will all be clearly identified as belonging to our state's National Guard. And they're going to keep tabs on all law breaking, including by people who purport to be agents of the state.
- [02:46]
B
I mean, the workability of this is questionable, but let's just play it out.
- [02:49]
C
Sure.
- [02:50]
B
For starters, part of the reason about the workability is questionable is I started to think about this and I do admit I've spent about two minutes thinking about this before, after JBL sent it to me. So, you know, we're still working through our ideas on all this sort of thing. But like, who is the National Guards that are going south cackalacky West Virginia, they got no problems in their states. They, who are they reporting to? Like, who does? Like if you are, you know, Elmer Huckleberry from Beckley, West Virginia, and you're going to D.C. you've been deployed by your state's governor, who are you, who are you reporting to? Right.
- [03:31]
C
I mean, such a good question. And the answer is nominally your adjutant general, which each state has. But then once they get to D.C. where does that chain of command fall?
- [03:43]
B
I mean, who is that guy reporting to?
- [03:47]
C
I'm, I'm guessing that they were respond to the commander in Chief and that Donald Trump will claim that he is in charge personally of every one of these things. And, and that's why I say so.
- [03:57]
B
This is an important question because it's like, okay, right, well so then now, all right, let's say this happens where Wes Moore says, I've, I've heard the call, you know, for the, for, for national guard troops in D.C. i want to send ours. We're particularly concerned because we have a lot of Maryland residents work in D.C. and so, you know, we're going to station our Guard troops there like that at some level, I mean, like it would bring clarity to the question of what the National Guard troops are doing, who they're reporting to, what the chain of command is, what the mission is. Right. Because you, you know, at some of the federal government would have to have something to say about. Who the hell knows what they would say? Maybe they'd say get the fuck out. Or I don't know, maybe they'd say we welcome you. They would say west more to the Oval Office. They would. How do you see it playing out?
- [04:47]
C
Yeah, no, I mean, so look, obviously this is an unworkable suggestion because no Democratic governor is going to be willing to do this. I think we should just Be.
- [04:57]
B
What about Gavin open about that?
- [04:59]
C
I think even Gavin is.
- [05:00]
B
I think Gavin's interested in creative suggestions.
- [05:02]
C
He's not at the DGAF enough phase of it, although it would be great if he were. But let's pretend that they did. Let's pretend Gavin did it. Trump would try to stop them from showing up, and he would probably go through the court system. Although the reason I think Westmore is an interesting case is the National Guard's right there. They could just walk across the border and, like, then, like, I don't know, I'd be interested in watching an actual showdown over that to see what happens. But it would be clarifying in the court system. Right? It'd be very clarifying to have the president, United States in court saying, I don't want the National Guard from this Democratic state showing up into Washington, D.C. that. That would be very clarifying.
- [05:51]
B
Yeah. This is the important part. Right. This is the clarifying part about why it's worth maybe just exploring other things. Such as? Such as this. Which is. You're trying to bring something to a head here.
- [06:02]
C
Yes.
- [06:02]
B
Right. Like the Democrats are, like, picking a fight. And it's similar to your. Maybe your most provocative triad newsletter ever. See some backlash back in the day, which I think is aging pretty well, is that the Democrats need their own Ron DeSantis. You look at Ron DeSantis as a model during the Biden era. Like, he did things that deliberately provoked showdowns and fights with Biden, such as sending people to Martha's Vineyard. Right. Like, obviously, in that case, you know, he's using immigrants as pawns. This was bad. You know, we don't endorse that. But is there a way to, like, look at that model and say, hey, it's a way for Democratic governors to say, okay, how can I provoke a showdown that forces the administration to put up or shut up, that forces the administration into a. Yeah. Into a more questionable, you know, political situation.
- [06:50]
C
They should be looking to be accelerationist in this, I think, and be. Because. And look, maybe that's not the answer. Right. And maybe Gretchen Whitmer does have the right answer. I don't think so, but maybe what a. Try things that's, you know, say what you want to say about Gavin.
- [07:07]
B
Can we steel, man, the case for the Gretchen Whitmer thing. The Axio story you're referencing is out this morning and says essentially that Trump has complimented Whitmer, that she's been doing well behind the scenes, that a lot of Trump staffers have been impressed with her. I Guess the idea for her is that this is a way to maintain popularity the right way. I guess Steel Manning at the best I could come up with is that if she seems not scary to MAGA voters, she can maintain a level of popularity in Michigan that prevents an authoritarian takeover from, from working well.
- [07:45]
C
I mean, if you want to Steel man the case, it's not all that different from European leaders being super nice to Trump and showering him with fake praise, even though they regard him as a buffoon, because they're trying to make him do what they want. Right. And so I, I think that's probably the Steel man version of the Whitmer case. And she would say, I'm delivering for my constituents, and I am. What it takes to. This administration is not like a normal Democratic administration. They, you know, they only deal in corrupt quid pro quos. And so I'm going to do that.
- [08:24]
B
He starts hassling people in Michigan in ways that are extrajudicial, they'll answer my call, but they're not going to answer Governor Newsom's call, I guess. Right.
- [08:33]
C
And that's, like I said, so that's. I think that's probably an incorrect calculation or a morally repugnant calculation, because when you are the governor of Michigan, like you, you aren't just responsible to the governor, to the people of Michigan, like you are a citizen of America. But whatever. My gripe is that for so much of the Democratic establishment, it seems like there is no strategy. There's just this closing your eyes and hoping that Trump isn't successful. And that, I think, isn't a strategy. Right. I mean, what Gretchen Whitmer is doing, say what you will about it, is actually a strategy. But the rest of the Democrats seem to, and again, not all of them, but they seem to be just sitting around hoping that it doesn't work out. And that's not a strategy. And, you know, I would like to see a little bit of people just.
- [09:22]
B
Come to realize that things are bad, that they've been. He's been, he's been lying to them. You know, hopefully the tariffs will take enough hold. Hopefully, you know, once people realize that, you know, their community relies on immigrants, that they'll come around the kitchen table.
- [09:36]
C
Issues will win out. Tim.
- [09:37]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [09:39]
C
And I, I, that I think. And although I should say maybe that'll turn out to be right, too. Right. Maybe we will get to November 2026, and it will turn out that all of the normal laws of politics apply and there will be a huge electoral wipeout. And nothing Trump is able to do with regard to sending National Guard troops into cities will affect vote turnouts at all. And maybe the, like, hey, don't worry about it. Just sit back and hope caucus will have turned out to be right. That's entirely possible. I wouldn't put my money there, but it's possible.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah. This is. And Bill and I were talking about this a little bit today. I mean, like, to me, this is the other element of it is you want to actually, like, actively stop them from, like, expanding this. This takeover as much as possible. And there's certain limits on that. Right. They control Congress, control the White House. But, like, if you look at the model of the El Salvador deportations, Right. Like, they were planning on expanding that program and they ended up shutting it down. Right. Because there was. Because they realized it was unpopular. There was enough pushback. You know, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze politically. We have other, you know, we're pivoting to alligator Alcatraz instead. Right. So it's not sound as if we defeated the regime or whatever, but just, like, looking at that, you know, to me, you know, you. This is. You're offering just a suggestion, but. But it's a conversation starter that pushes people to, okay, how do you actually push back aggressively enough on what they're doing in D.C. that they decide we actually don't want to expand this to Philly. Right. Like there was.
- [11:20]
C
Right.
- [11:21]
B
And part of that is. Is public, you know, protest and outrage. Part of that is political pressure. Part of that is legal. And, you know, maybe it's part of that in these states is like leveraging the political power Democrats do have.
- [11:36]
C
And I would say the important part is that because nobody knows what will work, you got to try everything.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah.
- [11:43]
C
And this is whatever, again, Gavin Newsom, strange new respect, at least. I mean, he did start. He started this whole thing out by saying, maybe what I need is a podcast where I sit down with Charlie Kirk and find common ground. And now he's right. He's looking into. He tried it and it didn't work. And now he's trying other things. And I think we should see more of that from Democrats.
- [12:05]
B
This is a great point. That's another, by the way. You always strange respect for Gavin, but the same applies to Trump. This is Trump, too. Trump did everything. I mean, think about all the shit that Trump puts out there on his social media that just ends up becoming a fart in the wind that dissipates. Some of the stuff hits, some doesn't. And so I think that's a good strategic lesson there. Okay jbl, Interesting article. Everybody go go sign up. You get this thought provoking stuff every day. A modest proposal he offers this morning. Little swift there, a little tongue in cheek, a little wink. And we will be back here a bunch. See you soon. Subscribe.