← Bulwark Takes
Bulwark Takes
Could Todd Blanche’s Epstein Exposure Doom His Nomination? (w/ Sarah Longwell) | Bulwark on Sunday
00:40:40
Loading summary
Transcript47 lines
- [00:00]
A
Moto Casino America Social Casino. Welcome to Moto Casino, where the excitement never ends with thousands of the hottest free to play social casino games, fastest payouts and the best promotions in the industry. No tricks or gimmicks. Owned and operated in the usa, Moto Casino is a free to play social casino. No purchase necessary. 21 plus to play Void War prohibited. Sign up today for a generous welcome bonus Moto Casino America's social casino. Download the MotoCasino app today.
- [00:30]
B
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone. Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem.
- [01:18]
A
Now get $80 off your first month
- [01:20]
B
with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com sign up. Save $80 with code space80@talkspace.com hi, Bill Kristol here. Welcome to Bull Work on Sunday. Very pleased to be joined by Sarah Longwell to discuss. We're going to discuss, and we'll discuss the Todd Blanche hearing that's coming up Wednesday and Thursday and how Democrats might get some Republicans to defect and stop him from becoming Attorney General. But let's begin with the breaking news, the shocking news really of Lindsey Graham's sudden death, I guess late last night. Earlier this morning he was taken to the hospital at GW Hospital, apparently after a heart attack at home last night and died earlier this morning. So, Sarah, thoughts?
- [02:09]
C
I mean, you knew him. I met him one time with you, I think in Texas at an event where he stopped to say hello to you. And I was introduced to him. I remember actually at the time, you know, my, my, my relationship with Lindsey Graham is the Lindsey Graham mostly of the last 10 years. And then maybe, maybe just the five years prior to that, like the, where he was, he was really thoroughly just the wingman of John McCain, which is really how I knew him because I was such a McCain person. McCain was like the reason that I was a Republican at all because he was kind of the one that I identified with. And so Lindsey Graham being his friend, always put Lindsey Graham in sort of a good category for me that then, you know, his how he behaved in the last decade as, as post John McCain's death and his being somebody who provided a lot of mainstream cover for Donald Trump left me with, you know, not a particularly good feeling about him. And I remember being struck, though, when I met him with you, because this is now probably seven or eight years ago. I actually remember at the time thinking that he looked quite elderly, much more so than he did on camera. He had sort of a stooped way of looking in that sort of shuffle walk, even with which at this point he must have been then in his early ish to mid-60s. But. So you knew him well. What can you tell us about that?
- [03:50]
B
Yeah, no, I knew him quite pretty well at one point, 20 years ago. And both said the last several years being angry at him and saddened by his turn. And I guess I have those sentiments this morning as well, though obviously when someone dies, a little more of the sadness and maybe some of the anger recedes a bit. I knew him well because in the early 2000 he was elected to the Senate, having been in the house since 94 in 2002. And he quickly became very, very close when he was close to McCain, I think, but became very close to him. And there was a small coterie of people in Washington who were hawks in foreign policy, neocons, as we say, hawkish on Iraq, but also willing to be critical of the Bush administration's conduct to the war. And very critical very early on. McCain was calling for a surge of troops in September of 2003. So just a few months after the war, be that it wasn't going well. Bush, Rumsfeld, that whole world were very committed to the notion that it was all fine and nothing needed to be rethought. And so by, I'm going to say late 2003, early. And the week standard was with McCain and Lindsey Graham. So by early 2004, I was in touch quite a lot actually with McCain and Graham. And we spent the next two, three years arguing for the surge which finally happened. Argument that, well, arguing that Bush should think about replacing Rumsell, replacing General Casey, but also arguing for the surge which finally happened in late 2006 and succeeded sort of. And I did succeed in 2007, 8 but it was kind of too late in terms of maybe the overall war, though, I will just point out that Iraq today is a lot better place than it was under Saddam Hussein and is not a, you know, terror sponsor or anything like that. But having said all that, without relitigating all that, and I would just say this, I think you called him correctly, McCain's wingman, and that certainly is. And certainly after he became Trump's apologist, one thinks of him a little more that way. I would say, though, in 040506, McCain was a very busy man. He was getting ready to run for president again by 2005, 2006, and he just was involved in a million things and he was John McCain. So Lindsey was the guy one dealt with day to day on sort of tactics of how to get put pressure on the Trump administration, on the Bush administration, on Iraq and in 2007, 2008, how to resist efforts by the newly Democratic Congress to cut off funding for the surge and how to coordinate a little bit with General Petraeus team in terms of his testimony. I remember that in September 2007. So I dealt with Lindsey a lot. I mean, probably more than almost any other member of Congress. And he was an unusual combination of knowing policy well. He, he was very, you know, understood military stuff, understood foreign policy very well, in my opinion, studied up on things. He was, you know, kind of person, unlike most members of Congress. He, he would send him something, hey, this is worth reading. He'd read it that night. But also very politically adept, which made, in a way, his turn to the dark side after 2016, but really 2018, I guess after John McCain's death, particularly sad. His statements from 2015, 16, incidentally, about, as you know, about Trump, are among the best. Right? He was uncompromising and what a damage this would do to conservatism, to the Republican Party, to the country as a whole. The other thing I finally, I'll say is I'm sure you've seen, remember this, there's that video that went around a lot, I guess, in 2020, when the Trump people were all attacking Joe Biden as an unbelievably horrible person. And there's that video of Lindsay Graham. I think it's after we found it, that was that.
- [07:24]
A
Right?
- [07:24]
B
Okay, say a word about that.
- [07:27]
C
Well, so this is when I say that my relationship with him really is in the last 10 years. Part of what was so I'll say interesting, but what I really mean is sort of awful about Lindsey Graham was that it was so easy to find him more than Almost anybody else. There was just tons of clips of him all arguing the exact opposite of what he was now standing for. Because I would say, and this is sometimes when people say, you know, Republicans were always like this or whatever. Lindsey Graham is such a perfect distillation of somebody that I watched and thought of. Well, because he would say good and kind bipartisan things.
- [08:14]
B
He, he.
- [08:14]
C
The. The video that we unearthed was him saying, you know, you can attack Joe Biden all you want, but he's one of the nicest, most decent men in politics. And of course, he ran from statements like that. I mean, rather than being the kind of person who would say, you know, we have our political differences, but I love Joe Biden. And in fact, there was this warm moment. I don't know if people remember this. This was a long time ago, but just after John McCain passed away, Joe Biden was on the View, and he had. Meghan McCain had really lovely moment, because these guys were friends like they were at a time. It was also Joe Lieberman. So they were this, like, kind of cohort of bipartisan types who, who were able to put personal, like they had personal relationships that allowed them to do politics in a way where, you know, the last 10 years is what ended up looking a lot like, you know, you say he was serious about policy, but it was this sort of empty rush for relevance all the time. And in. And such a clear defiance of the principles that he had once espoused. And so we used him all the time as a video. Like, we would clip him saying things that were the exact opposite of what he was then saying in the context of Trump. Like, I'm not. And this is why I think Lindsey Graham. And I'll just say I am. I am pulled between two instincts right now, which is that I do not think one should speak terribly about somebody in the immediate aftermath of their death. It's sort of, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. On the other hand, our job is to get on and talk about politics. And so, you know, I do think that living one's life in a way so that when it is time for your duology or when it is time for people to talk about your legacy, that they don't have to be sort of conflicted in this way. Like, if you want people to say nice things about you in memoriam, live a life worthy of that. And I think part of what was tough about Lindsay over the last 10 years is it he became sort of almost the thermometer isn't quite the word, but like he could be a personal stand in for the way that the Republican Party was shifting from something that we had known to this thing that was unrecognizable. Like he was almost a personal manifestation of the way that the party was shifting.
- [10:58]
B
No, I think that's right. And I mean, just one last point. Maybe a defense of the truth telling side of, of things. I mean, it's also not just a backward looking thing. Obviously he had a real effect and until his death was having an effect in keeping, in letting other people rationalize their support for Donald Trump.
- [11:14]
C
Yes.
- [11:14]
B
And a lot of it had to do with foreign policy. And I think Graham really did push Trump to be less anti Ukraine and more anti Putin. And Graham died just after coming back from a trip to Ukraine. I give him credit for trying to. I think he did really push behind the scenes to get Republicans to stick to their guns on Ukraine and maybe had some effect. But that, that's the way in which being, quote, serious about policy and any of us serious about that policy legitimated a broader accommodation and a refusal to be truthful about or even honest, I think with himself about the damage Trump was doing in all kinds of ways to the country and to our standing in the world. So it's sort of, in a weird way, his ability to use his rel. You know, to tell himself that staying relevant meant he could really affect things, made him. Allowed him to do more damage in a funny way than someone who just kept his head down. Right. Someone who just was cowardly and never said anything. I mean, he embraced saying things. And in that respect, he really, I think it's a sad, sad story.
- [12:19]
C
It's a sad way to, to end for somebody who I think sought to be close to power because there was a point in time which I think he saw himself as somebody who, and probably had, was trying to be worthy of real influence on our politics. And unfortunately, he squandered that. Here at the end, I was struck by something just, this is just like a casual thing, but like the Senate is about to be very different. It is sort of an end of whatever you think about the era in question. It is about to be the end of an era where Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham sort of being gone now. And the way that Trump is outlasting this old guard because, you know, Lindsey Graham 71, Mitch McConnell is 83. And, you know, it looks like what happened to Lindsey Graham is just a catastrophic cardiac arrest, which is not a crazy thing to happen to 71 year olds and you know, but, but, but Mitch McConnell has now disappeared on top of the was it Keen, who also had been, had just dropped out of sight. Like this is sort of the gerontocracy at work. But it will be a different Senate. And I'd like to say there's part of me that wants to think like, okay, without Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham, who I think we think of as some of the more malign actors in the Republican Party in terms of the way in which they have accommodated Trump, knowing how bad it was to do the accommodating. Right. They know better, but like they're gone now. And so like the people that replace them will not be better or I guess I don't even know how to assess better. They will be of the era in which Trump is not anathema to our politics at all.
- [14:20]
B
Yeah, no, that's really a good point. I just add John Corden to that. He's not, he's healthy, which is good. But he was defeated, obviously and is on his way out and he was number two. People forget this to McConnell. I don't think McConnell was a very, very powerful leader and didn't, I don't think bother consulting John Cornyn on all his tactical decisions. But it was Cornyn who was number two, not Thune. Then Thune beat him. Thune was also in leadership and beat him for the, you know, for the leader's position. And now Cornyn's lost, so he's also out. So, yeah, that whole generation's gone. And again, unless a Democrat wins that seat, which is possible in Texas, obviously, again, you'll have a Trump Republican replacing a, an acquiescent to Trump Republican. It's not going to change any votes. And in some ways, as I say, to be honest, the acquiescence of Trump Republicans conceivably did more damage on the outside. Ken Paxton's not going to convince any of our ex friends in Republican donor world or conservative intelligentsia such as it is world that they should be for Trump. Whereas in a way, the Lindsey Grahams, the John Cornyns going along gave the Borvin excuse to go along themselves.
- [15:21]
C
Yeah, that's right. No, this is just a thing that I think about a lot, which is, you know, your Tommy Tubervilles are just a pure real expression of where Republicans are now and in many ways every sort of semi normal or semi serious or somebody that has a legacy that makes people think of them as a, a quote unquote good Republican. When those guys run cover for Trump. It does more damage than when Tommy Tuberville does it because everybody's like, all right, Tommy Tomerville. So I think that's a good point
- [15:56]
B
which I think gives us is a transition to what we were going to talk about. And we'll talk about the remaining half of the show, which is the Todd Blanche's, the hearings on Todd Blanche's nomination to be Attorney general. I mean, Blanche in a funny way is a little, not quite, but a little like Lindsey Graham or John Cordyn in being having been a sort of respectable corporate lawyer in New York with a background at Southern District of New York, which is a very well respected place to be an assistant attorney general, assistant U.S. attorn attorney, and then became Trump's lawyer and then did what he did for the last year and a half as deputy attorney general. And now we have his hearing coming up this week. You and I have been doing a little work on this and both the bulwark, but also in our capacity with Home of the Brave and the sort of more advocacy side of things. What are your thoughts on the Blanche hearing? And you've also talked about it in focus groups, I think. So say a word about that.
- [16:49]
C
Yeah. So the first thing is I, I did wonder if, if Lindsey Graham passing away would have any impact on these hearings. It sounds like as of right now, no, everything seems to be moving ahead. But I don't know if, I don't know if it's gone under the radar. But whether it's the Platner stuff or the Iran stuff, I don't know that that Blanche has been really centered in terms of what we're thinking about who is going to be running the doj. Now I talk about it a lot on the illegal news with Andrew Weissman and, and others because it really is shocking, shocking to have somebody like Todd Blanch coming in to run the doj. Because this is somebody who has been at the forefront of running Donald Trump's legal agenda. He was Donald Trump's personal defense attorney. He has been the one responsible under Pam Bondi for the release, the sort of terrible way in which the Epstein files have been released as well as the COVID up for what has not been released. But more importantly, he's been the guy doing the vindictive prosecutions, you know, going after Comey. He looks for in every way to bend the law to Trump's will. He is the guy responsible. People may have already forgotten about this, even though this story was not that long ago. He's the guy who was trying to do the slush fund, the 17, the however many, you know, the first it was a billion dollars and now we're going to do what was it?
- [18:20]
B
1.776776 billion or. Yeah.
- [18:25]
C
And, and so at every turn, Todd Blanche has proved himself to be the exact opposite of the kind of person that you wanting doj, that you want running doj. And so there's a sort of a, A, a buffet of riches for these senators to, to chew on as they like, list all the reasons why he is unfit to be America's top law enforcement officer. And this puts you in to thinking about like what is the legal, what are the best legal arguments against him versus if he, you think he's going to be confirmed anyway. And I, I'll be interested in what you think about this because I think right now, I think yes, that he's going to be confirmed. Then the question do you use the hearings to elevate as an issue and based on focus groups with voters. Voters have not forgotten about the Epstein files. I cannot tell you of all the things that voters have the attention span of gnats on a wide variety of things. They're so, and it's not even their fault. There's so much insane news, so much corruption that they often. It's difficult, right? You're like, oh yeah, the slush fund, like this was a major horrible thing for like two weeks and then you forget that it happened. But that was Todd Blanche. So the question is what can you really sort of pin him down on? And for me, I think the Epstein files are one of the main things that people should focus on for Blanche because I think it's time that we continue to talk about the Epstein files generally as a matter of public discourse, but most importantly because it comes up in the focus groups all the time, not just from Democrats or independents, but from Trump voters who when you say like, well, why are you disappointed in Donald Trump? There's basically two things. It's the, his inability to fix the economy and the fact that the Epstein files have not been released.
- [20:11]
A
Moto Casino America's social casino welcome to Moto Casino where the excitement never ends with thousands of the hottest free to play social casino games. Fastest payouts and the best promotions in the industry. No tricks or gimmicks. Owned and operated in the USA Moto Casinos are free to play Social casino. No purchase necessary. 21 plus to Playboy we're prohibited. Sign up today for a generous welcome bonus. Moto Casino America Social Casino Download the Moto Casino app today.
- [20:42]
B
Yeah, that's interesting. In a minute I'll ask our colleague Chris Herbert to show us the ad that Home of the Brave has done that will be airing I think on cable and on digital this week. I think it's kind of conceivable that a Republican or two would break away. I guess the obvious candidates would be John Cornyn and, and who's on Judiciary and was a judge and probably deep down doesn't think Todd Blanch should be Attorney General. But will he actually vote against him? I don't know. But Epstein both is the strongest argument for Republican senators and it's a strong argument altogether. I mean the Blanche's centrality to the Epstein cover up, just to take a second on that shouldn't be forgotten. He was the one, Pam Bondi said this, right? He was the one who was in charge. He was the one who decided along with cash Patel on July 6, obviously with Bondi signing off on it, that there was nothing to investigate. He was the one who then when they, when that all fell apart very quickly in last July and they had to, oh my God, the COVID up's not working. He's the one who flew down and met with Ghislaine Maxwell. I mean that, that is for me is the most astounding. The personal fingerprints on that. It's one thing to run a department that's doing all kinds of terrible things, prosecuting Comey and all that, but that's at least, I mean like defendant at least, you know, he's got other people sort of signing the documents mostly that are going ahead with that and other people prosecuting and showing up in court. This l flew down himself to have this totally corrupt meeting with Maxwell in which Maxwell's oh, I didn't know anything bad about Trump, which followed within a week by the Bureau of Prisons, which reported to the deputy General Todd Blanche, transferring her to a cushy prison in Texas. I mean, I just feel like that by itself should be just disqualifying. I mean it's ridiculous. It's unbelievable that this is happening with Epstein and everything we've learned. Then he botches the rollout and doesn't redact survivors names and then we'll meet with the survivors and doesn't even express real regret. The survivors I think will be interesting. I think one of them will testify Thursday that Wednesday will be the Blanche testimony. Interesting to see how that goes. And the Thursday will be witnesses. Both obviously Republicans will have supporting witnesses. Democrats get the opportunity to call two or three, I believe And I think one will be a survivor who courageously is going to, I believe, speak there. So, but I think you're right. But also, if just before we show the ad, if he doesn't get confirmed, very important. And this isn't a matter of vindictiveness or anything, this is a matter of, I think for the next two and a half years, very important to weaken him honestly as Attorney General and to weaken Trump and to get in people's minds, you can't trust this Justice Department. It's one of the worst things is going to be three months from now when the Justice Department announces X, Y or Z about antifa domestic terrorism, elections are being subverted, blah, blah, blah. It's very important to elevate the true fact, the true fact that you can't trust this justice firm being run by Blanche. And I think Epstein is such a useful way to get that out. So I think, yeah, some of our friends who I don't regret, they're fighting hard to stop him and I wish, God knows I am too, and I wish them well. But very important to weaken this Justice Department going forward as well, because it's
- [23:38]
C
a lawless Justice Department. And I think, you know, if, if you are somebody who right now is thinking, oh, I don't care about the Blanche stuff like this doesn't seem that important to me. Just remember that Donald Trump got rid of Pam Bondi because she was being insufficiently loyal or insufficiently prosecuting his agenda. And so he has reached in because he wants Blanche to have that job.
- [24:06]
B
So, yeah, it's really striking. And incidentally, Blanche has in the two or three months I think it probably is, that he's been acting as general has done that. I mean, he has been more. There were things that Bondi either wasn't competent enough in a way to do, but also I think may have even thought, I don't know, could we really do that? Blanche has just done it, you know, on the prosecution of Comey and many other things. So, yeah, he's more dangerous than Bondi, actually, I think. And unfortunately so maybe. Chris, can we show the ad that Home of the Brave, our friendly group here has. I think we'll be showing this week it isn't a crime to party with.
- [24:42]
C
Mr. Epstein, meet Todd Blanche, the Deputy Attorney General of the United States and the guy who oversaw the release of the Epstein files. How'd that go? 2 million Epstein pages still haven't been released. And Blanche transferred Epstein's co conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell to A cushy prison camp with puppies and Pilates. Oh, and now he wants to add attorney general to his profile. This isn't a resume to award. Tell your senators, don't confirm. Todd Blanch.
- [25:13]
B
We'll see if that.
- [25:14]
C
Good job, team. Good job.
- [25:15]
B
It was a good job. So let's. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you've been on top of the Epstein thing for a year in terms of focus groups. And I'm saying a word more, just about, has it really receded? Has it receded in Washington but not in the country? Can it be? Yeah.
- [25:31]
C
Yes. So this is, look, in the very early days of the Epstein stuff, I was sort of begging people to not treat it like a two week story. And the reason is, is that you can always tell or I can tell with voters when something is sticky. And the, and it's not. Again, this is not something driven by Democrats. It's not something driven by political independence. This is driven by Trump's own voters. And it goes to a central belief that they have about him. Like one of the reason a lot of the red pill types wanted Donald Trump is because they believed he was going to be transparent about the Epstein files, that he was going to be. It's going to tell him everything. And that's why you keep, they keep releasing the alien stuff as a way to head off the concern that their voters have about the fact that this is not a transparent administration. And it wasn't just, it's not just sort of regular voters. It's also the Republican influence set that spent a lot of Joe Biden's presidency talking about needing to release the Epstein files. Like this became a central Internet issue for influencers on the right who. And it's the reason that Pam Bondi made this big show about giving them these big binders that was supposed to be full of new information. It's the reason she went on Fox and immediately like one of her first, first, her first duties as the head of the Department of Justice was to say, I've got it on my desk, the list of these people who are in the Epstein files and we're going to put it out. And so the fact that they have failed to do so is something that cons. It like exists as an angry point inside their own voters. And we should just as a PR comms offense matter, be looking to elevate that whenever possible. Trump hates talking about Epstein. He hates it. He's always like, who is this guy? I don't want to talk about this Pam Bondi's inability to sort of get him out from under the Epstein file scrutiny is the reason he one of the main reasons he got rid of her. And so we should hang it around Todd Blanche's neck's neck. And we should, I think too because voters are often it's like they really, they care about it. It comes up unprompted. But, but also for a lot of people, if you like, this is what Trump does, right. He keeps throwing them different chum. Different chum. New things to focus on. New things to focus on. Plays the hits. We're going to arrest Obama, we're going to go get Hunter Biden, whatever. He's afraid of this. And as a and just anybody who wants to get Donald Trump down below the Bush line, this is one of those issues that can do it because it turns off his own voters from him.
- [28:20]
B
And the proof that he's afraid of it, incidentally, is so they had that meeting in the which the New York Times ended up reporting about a little bit later. But very good reporting, I guess this maybe is Maggie Abrams and Jonathan Swan's book right in the situation the Situation room, which is two weeks after basically the July 6 memo. And that cover up is beginning to the stonewall is falling apart. So they're moving from stonewalling to covering up. Right. I mean if you accept that distinction, stonewalling is nothing to see here. No more news, no reporting, no nothing. It's an finished cover up is okay, I guess it's not finished. But now we're going to manage to release the files in a way that is partial and unrevealing and making sure that it doesn't damage Donald Trump and doesn't expose other people we don't want exposed and et cetera. So that's that was what they've been in since about two weeks after July 6th. And when they meet in the Sit Room that evening, I think it's late in the afternoon of the evening, Blanche comes over from the Justice Department, which is really itself shocking. This is a political meeting. It's shocking that it's in the situation Ms. Italy. It's a totally political meeting. Trump's PR guy is there. I think that was that guy Stephen Chong. How are you? Who's comms guy? Yeah, his comms guy is unbelievable. I mean anyway, he, he's there chiming in and the deputy attorney general of the United States is supposed to be concerned about law enforcement is there chiming in on the political strategy. That is our friend Tom Jon Reminded me of this and this hasn't been publicized. That is, that happens a couple of hours before the Wall Street Journal article comes out on the Trump birthday card. The horrible, horrible, really? Birthday card that Trump contributes to Epstein's 50th birthday book.
- [29:54]
C
That Trump of course lied about.
- [29:56]
B
Right. And they knew it was coming. I mean they'd been called about it. Trump had called the Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdoch and the editor of the Journal to try to stop it. So this was very much on their mind. They knew this was coming from the Journal and that's one reason they had the meeting is they know how damaging that card is. I mean I've always been struck by that. The people. What possible explanation for that is there than the Trump knew minimally that Epstein was involved in extremely well and very bad things. And very bad things. I mean what do we, you know, let's not kid ourselves about that. And that card comes out. It did cause a huge ruckus. So they're having the COVID up meeting there. Blanche is there and I think it's literally a week later that he flies to Florida to see Maxwell. I mean it's such a, I mean the TikTok on this is so obviously a cover up, you know, that I do wonder, and we mentioned it to him with the brave mentions in the ad. I mean I just wonder if that could get, if that gets into the bloodstream a little more. Honestly, I wonder if that gives second thoughts to maybe a couple of these, enough of these Republican senators. Or as you say, even if it doesn't give them second thoughts, it makes that vote more damaging frankly to the, to Republicans who are just willing to go along with this terrible cover up of this guy who did and facilitated and this woman Maxwell who didn't facilitated terrible crimes.
- [31:12]
C
Can I ask you just something really quickly, just as a procedural matter with Lindsey Graham having passed away, Mitch McConnell out, if they're going to do a confirmation hearing, how many Republicans do they need? So how many could defect?
- [31:26]
B
The committee is, I think 12, 10 and 11. It would be 11, 10 though they could also replace him pretty quickly. The Democrats could object. So complicated. I assume the governor of South Carolina who's Republican McMaster is going to appoint literally tomorrow a successor so that. And they'll swear him in quickly so that there will be a vote in the Senate maybe somewhat unjudiciary or not, that doesn't matter quite as much. So I think in that respect there's no, it's not, you know, they'll fill the seat temporarily Then there'll be this crazy fast primary. But he's also a free election. He just defeated a primary challenger, Lindsey Graham. So Nancy Mace and all kinds of crazy people, and maybe one or two less crazy people will run for Graham seat in a very accelerated primary process in South Carolina.
- [32:08]
C
But.
- [32:08]
B
But Mitch McConnell being out is not nothing. I mean, if there are 52 Republicans and 47 Democrats, you gotta get to 50 so Vance can come in and break the tie. 52 Republicans means three defections could defeat it. And presumably Murkowski is a no vote. I kind of think she probably is. Who knows about Susan Collins? Murkowski's an ovo. Dan Sullivan from Alaska who's up this year. Little hard for him to explain why he's comfortable with this if Murkowski isn't, I think his senior colleague. And then there are others, Tillis, McCorn. And Cornyn's on the committee, incidentally. And I think the anti. I've been in touch with some of them, the anti Blanche, the liberal lawyer group, so to speak, who were working on this in a very conscientious and I think doing their best sort of way, have targeted Cornyn a lot. And incidentally, needless to say, Cornyn is the senator from Texas. He's still the senator even though he lost the primary. Houston is where the horrible killing happened Tuesday. And of someone who'd lived there 35 years, we all know that story and we've been pretty focused on that at the. At the Bulwark. And I don't know, is Cordon comfortable with the way the fact that the Justice Department is not literally not investigating it? I mean, they just decided to. I don't know. I guess we're going to let. DHS's inspector general is going to investigate the. This killing, which they've lied. DHS has lied about pretty clearly from the beginning. DHS's inspector general has a backlog of 600 cases of alleged misconduct against ICE agents or DHS employees. Most of them, I believe. ICE agents, the cases and what. That's. That's fine. The Justice. I'm old enough to remember when the Justice Department investigated these kinds of actions by other. By federal officials from other department. That's kind of why there's a. Just one reason there's a Justice Department. Right. So I don't know. I feel like that could help push Corny a little bit towards not being an automatic vote for this anyway. But I think the hearing is going ahead on Wednesday and Thursday. They could postpone it and you'll Never know when a senator dies. There are also issues of how does it funeral. You know, people get the calendar can get a little messed up, but I, I think they'll probably try to go ahead with it on Wednesday and Thursday.
- [34:12]
C
Yeah. And in terms of a. Just speaking of a different Graham, Graham Platner being out in Maine means that the Democrats in Maine are going to be trying to put up a new candidate against Susan Collins. And so she's actually in this is a tough vote for her. And this is goes to your point about like the political ramifications of really elevating Blanche's Epstein stuff. I think one place to do it is in Maine to make it very hard for Susan Collins to explain to her voters why she's going to vote to because that is a, that is like peak. The problem with Susan Collins, right. Is that she's there to often she will help Trump's agenda and she'll take a no vote if it's going to get over the line anyway. So to try to maintain her principled thing. But like this is one of those votes where either they've all got a vote in favor of it and if Murkowski is a defector like it just we should, we should put a lot of pressure on Susan Collins to not vote for Todd Blanch because if she does, I think that's a real, a negative political proposition from her with her voters there in the state. And if she doesn't, we might actually keep Blanche out.
- [35:28]
B
Oh, that's well said. And I assume some of our buddies over at Home of the Brave are watching this this live and they certainly can watch it on on the recorded version if they're been busy midday here. So on Sunday. So yeah. That the main. I didn't really. You're right. I mean the focus has been on Corning in Texas because Collins isn't on the committee. But probably worth really focusing on Collins right away too, because the final, final point but maybe final point I make about this is there's a little bit I think at the end of the day this thing does not go down. I'd be pretty surprised if it goes down 51, 49. And that's sort of not how these kinds of things usually work. Certainly not in the Trump era either it passes with maybe, you know, Burkowski and Collins getting to vote. No. But then it gets 50. They get 50 votes or they get fans to break a tie or something. But either it passes most likely more likely outcome or but not impossible it goes down. And if it Goes down. I think like five or six or ten of them defect at once. You know, at that point, I think at that point, Cornyn, who's leaving, Tillis, who's leaving, Cassidy is leaving. Maybe they all just decide, you know what, we'll go in a group, gives Collins cover to say no as well. She's not alone. The Trump people can't simply target her. You know, I mean, I, I kind of think it falls apart. Or it doesn't. Probably doesn't, but not certainly. And if it falls apart, I've got to think Epstein is the key wedge into making it fall apart.
- [36:48]
C
Yeah, well, I just. And also, I mean, the. Epstein's such a clear, easy way to demonstrate how corrupt Todd Blanch is. And I gotta say, if Cornyn, Antillis and Cassidy, these guys who are on their way out because Trump targeted them, went after them, wanted people more corrupt than them in their seats, if they give him this contra, everything that they know is right, contra to the rule of law and anything they've ever held dear as supposed institutionalists of the Senate, I hope they never get to show their faces in public again. Like, we should be putting an enormous amount of pressure on them to do the halfway decent thing. Like it isn't even a crazy act of courage to vote somebody down like Blanche. This is a. It should be a fait accompli. He should never be allowed to get this close to running the Justice Department.
- [37:44]
B
Department, yeah, absolutely. It's not as if defeating him doesn't mean Trump gets to nominate someone else who we also won't like, incidentally, and who will also be bad. He just will be. But it won't be rewarding someone who, as Deputy Attorney General and as acting Attorney General has done the most, as you say, the most corrupt things, which is a vote to just authorize that for the next two and a half years. I think that's really. So it is a forward looking, as well as a retrospective judgment, so to speak. But that was very well said, what you just said. And I'm hoping that some of that passion and also strategic insight comes through to all of our friends out there who are engaged in this good fight. Yeah, the Blanche thing could end up being a little more significant as a kind of confirmation hearings usually come and go, honestly. And we get upset about that, as we should. You know, Pete Hexess didn't have to be Secretary of Defense if Thom Tillis hadn't voted for him. But anyway. And it does matter who's in these cabinet positions. But I think this I think the blanch hearing has more potential to be interesting and Blanchard and the actual vote more potential to be problematic than people have thought.
- [38:45]
C
Yeah. Although I somebody just flagged this in a comment and they're right about this. Which is the other person to watch his Fetterman because now he, he can usually be good on stuff like this and this is but we'll see. He's been he's been moving further and further in the wrong direction. So we'll see.
- [39:03]
B
I think yeah has been pretty good on the confirmations. I think if he votes for a pledge that just means he's going to become a Republican or try to become a Republican that you can actually win a Republican primary in Pennsylvania in 28. But whatever. Maybe he'll get a job in the in the Trump maybe. Who knows. Anyway, I guess the sad death of Lindsey Graham the fortunate I'm going to say forced withdrawal of Graham Platner, I mean incidentally which I don't think Democrats should be wringing their hands about. They should be thanking the people who came had the courage to come forward to force it to happen. I would say does remind one how much things can change in politics. Right. I mean, you know, it's just sort of, you know, you, you think everything's sort of laid out here and the Pat Lindsey Graham would have been a good advocate for Blanche on the Judiciary Committee. He's an intelligent man. Was an intelligent man. He was a good questioner. He when he wanted to be nice to someone and this is kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier. Maybe it's a good thing to close on in 2010 when it was a different Lindsey Graham. He sets up Elena Kagan, who's who most Republicans are going to oppose that he voted for when President Obama nominated her for the court for that famous slide of hers about I can't remember someone's attacking her because basically she's Jewish. I mean some Republican group or maybe Senator. I can't remember what was she doing on Christmas. And she has a, you know, I like all Jews. I was at a Chinese restaurant, you know. And I think it later came out that that was kind of set up, you know. And so that was a different Lindsey Graham. And anyway, maybe that's an appropriate thing to end on Final words. Sarah,
- [40:36]
C
I'm going to go back to the thing that I said before that you know. Well, two things. This idea of things can change really fast is a is a really important point. We shouldn't act like things are a fait accompli and the reason that Bill and I still do work with places like Home of the Brave is that we want to continue to be part of the advocacy community that is pushing these things because for some reason it's not always being done on the institutional Democratic side and ways that I think are sufficient to the moment. And so we continue to try to be people who are saying, hey guys, you've got an incredible this guy's dereliction of duty is all over the place, obviously. But focusing on, focusing on Epstein is something that really resonates with Republicans still, Republican voters especially. And then on the Lindsey Graham of it all, on the Mitch McConnell of it all, I think it's just to remember that everybody has a legacy. And your legacy will often be judged by what you do late in the game. And if you want people to appreciate your legacy, you're gonna have to live a life worth being eulogized in a positive way. And so maybe, you know, and Lindsay Graham is just a reminder that maybe you think you have more time to curate your legacy, but your legacy comes when it comes.
- [42:08]
B
Well said. Well said. Sarah. Thank you for joining me today. And we will be look watch in the Bulwark. We'll be covering the and commenting on and obviously reporting on the blanche earrings on all of our different podcasts and video and Bulwark takes and on warning shots certainly, which we'll be writing about it quite a lot. So thank you. Keep in touch with us at the Bulwark and keep watching and reading. Sarah, thanks for joining me today and thank you for joining us.
- [42:40]
C
Bye guys.
- [42:42]
A
Moto Casino America Social Casino welcome to Moto Casino where the excitement never ends with thousands of the hottest free to play social casino games. Fastest payouts and the best promotions in the industry. No tricks or gimmicks. Owned and operated in the usa. Moto Casino is a free to play social casino. No purchase necessary. 21 plus to play void where prohibited. Sign up today for a generous welcome bonus Moto Casino America's Social Casino Download the MotoCasino app today.