CPAC 2025: MAGA’s Big Party Was a Festival of Grievance and Boredom

Summary

Bulwark Takes: CPAC 2025 – MAGA’s Big Party Was a Festival of Grievance and Boredom

Release Date: February 24, 2025

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Sam Stein engages in a deep discussion with Andrew Egger about the 2025 Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). The conversation delves into the evolving dynamics of CPAC, the intertwining of mainstream conservatism with the MAGA movement, and the underlying currents of grievance that permeate the event.

---

1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

Sam Stein opens the episode by introducing Andrew Egger, who recently attended CPAC. The conversation quickly shifts to the transformation of CPAC from a traditional conservative gathering to a platform heavily influenced by Trumpism and the MAGA movement.

Sam Stein [00:00]: "CPAC’s annual gathering used to be about conservatism. It's now about Trump and MAGAism, if you want to put it that way."

---

2. CPAC as a Media and Social Event

Andrew Egger describes CPAC as a significant media event akin to a "Lollapalooza" for the right-wing, where tastemakers, podcasters, and newsmakers converge to network and promote their agendas.

Andrew Egger [00:46]: "CPAC's always been weird because it is kind of this media event... like this big party with tastemakers and newsmakers in the right-wing constellation."

He further emphasizes the event's role in showcasing the entirety of the right-wing experience in one location, making it a focal point for media coverage.

---

3. The Transformation of CPAC Over the Years

Both hosts reflect on the shift in CPAC's atmosphere. Sam Stein reminisces about past CPACs, highlighting moments like Mitt Romney's withdrawal from the presidential primary, which once evoked strong emotional reactions from attendees.

Sam Stein [01:50]: "I was there when Mitt Romney dropped out of the presidential primary... people in the CPAC audience... were shocked. I saw people crying."

Andrew concurs, noting that CPAC has always attracted fervent supporters but has become increasingly bizarre over the last decade.

Andrew Egger [02:22]: "It's always been a cross section of the biggest news junkies on the right... but it has gotten way weirder, way crazier."

---

4. Matt Schlapp’s Influence and CPAC’s Organizational Dynamics

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Matt Schlapp, the lobbyist behind CPAC. Andrew Egger critiques Schlapp’s role, portraying him as an establishment figure rather than a genuine MAGA advocate.

Andrew Egger [02:52]: "Matt Schlapp... likes to proclaim himself sort of like the Grand Poobah of conservatism... He's not... a dyed in the wool internal MAGA guy."

Sam Stein adds that Schlapp has strategically positioned himself within the movement for personal advancement.

Sam Stein [03:22]: "He has remade himself for purposes of advancement."

Andrew highlights Schlapp’s role in integrating figures like Donald Trump and other unconventional voices into CPAC, facilitating their acceptance within the broader MAGA coalition.

---

5. Internal Tensions and MAGA’s Dominance

The conversation touches upon internal conflicts within CPAC, particularly the handling of January 6th defendants. Initially turned away, public pressure forced CPAC to embrace them, reflecting the tension between establishment organizers and MAGA extremists.

Sam Stein [04:10]: "But he then didn't he then like say, oh, no, you're welcome here."

Andrew Egger [04:18]: "They quickly kind of covered their butts and were like, no, we love our January 6th Patriots."

---

6. CPAC as an Echo Chamber and Cheerleading Event

Andrew Egger criticizes the CPAC straw poll, once a valuable indicator of conservative sentiments, now reduced to a mere cheerleading exercise reinforcing unanimous support.

Andrew Egger [07:34]: "They read the results off from the stage, kind of revel in their unanimity about everything... It's like a cheerleading event."

Sam Stein echoes this sentiment, noting the absence of substantial internal debates or diverse viewpoints.

Sam Stein [06:28]: "There'd actually be some sort of intramural debates... Was there any sense of internal debate or conflict? No."

---

7. Exporting Election Denialism and Global Influence

Andrew Egger brings attention to CPAC’s role in exporting election denialism worldwide, referencing international counterparts in Hungary, Brazil, and Korea. He underscores the global replication of America’s grievance-driven politics.

Andrew Egger [04:23]: "We are exporting election denialism... CPAC Hungary... CPAC Brazil... trying to steal all of our elections."

---

8. Persistent Grievances and Lack of Progress

Despite being at the forefront of political power, CPAC attendees remain entrenched in a perpetual state of grievance. Andrew observes a lack of significant legislative achievements and a sense of exhaustion among participants.

Andrew Egger [08:03]: "There hasn't been a ton of, like, what's the next thing? What's the next thing?"

He attributes this stagnation to the movement’s foundation on continuous grievance, which hampers forward momentum.

Andrew Egger [08:38]: "Because the whole thing is just built on this kind of permanent state of grievance."

---

9. Matt Schlapp’s Scandals and Their Impact

Towards the end of the episode, Sam Stein broaches the topic of Matt Schlapp’s controversies. While they acknowledge his involvement in an altercation and subsequent police report, they refrain from detailing the incidents, maintaining a focus on CPAC’s broader dynamics.

Andrew Egger [11:15]: "The answer is not on stage... I did not see it litigated."

Sam Stein [11:25]: "It'd be weird if a speaker got up there and... Can we talk about what happened at that bar in Virginia? That'd be weird."

---

10. Conclusion and Big Picture Takeaway

In wrapping up, Sam Stein asks Andrew to distill the big picture takeaway from CPAC 2025. Andrew reflects on CPAC as a celebration of grievance over genuine progress, highlighting the movement's reliance on past grievances to fuel its agenda despite holding significant power.

Andrew Egger [09:03]: "It's like, yes, they are winning, but... there is still so much grievance there, despite the fact that they're in the driver's seat."

Sam Stein concurs, emphasizing the challenge of sustaining a movement built primarily on resentment.

Sam Stein [08:38]: "It's like... what else do you do?"

---

Key Takeaways

• CPAC’s Transformation: Transition from a traditional conservative forum to a MAGA-dominated event showcasing a blend of mainstream conservatism and populist grievance.

• Role of Leadership: Matt Schlapp’s establishment role juxtaposed with the grassroots MAGA elements, creating organizational tensions.

• Echo Chamber Dynamics: CPAC has evolved into a reinforced echo chamber with minimal internal dissent or debate, focusing on collective affirmation rather than substantive discourse.

• Global Influence: CPAC's model is being exported internationally, spreading election denialism and grievance-based politics beyond the United States.

• Persistent Grievances: Despite holding political power, the movement remains anchored in past and present grievances, hindering progressive legislative achievements and fostering a sense of stagnation.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of CPAC 2025, highlighting the complexities and contradictions within the modern conservative movement. For listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of the current state of American conservatism and the influences shaping its future, this discussion offers valuable insights.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey guys, it's me, Sam Stein here, managing editor at the Bulwark. I'm joined by Andrew Egger. Andrew has somehow commandeered my office and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Andrew's gonna talk about cpac, which he went to on Friday. But before we get into that, as always, subscribe to the feed. Doesn't take much. Tons of benefits. Andrew, tell us about cpac. Let's just set the stage. It's the annual gathering. It used to be about conservatism. It's now about Trump and maga ism, if you want to put it that way. Trumpism and this year in particular seemed crazy because Elon was there, he's brandishing a chainsaw. Trump went, JD spoke. I believe it was just everyone. But you were there on Friday. What did you see?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, CPAC's always been weird because it's like it is kind of this media event, right? It's like they put on this big party. They have all these like tastemakers and newsmakers in, you know, the right wing constellation come and speak and kind of hobnob and all the different like right wing podcasters and shows are all there and they're all networking with each other and you know, people come from quote unquote, real America to like witness these people. And it's like, it's kind of like this like lollapalooza type situation. And the press covers it a lot because it's like this kind of like one stop shop to get supposedly like the whole right wing experience like in one hotel south of D.C. in Maryland. And so it's like always been this thing. But yeah, and it's also always been kind of a zoo as well. I mean there really is not like this mythical kind of prior cpac, at least not in the last decade in my experience of kind of like it being this kind of good and pleasant and normal place. It's always been this sort of bizarre phenomenon, right? Well, yeah, but you should talk to JVL about it. He feels the same same way in terms of just having always. Not to the same extent, but.

[Sam Stein]

But yeah, it's definitely drifted towards that area. I would been going there for like 15 years. Yes, it's always been sort of a grifter central and Radio Row especially. But I was there when, I think I'd have to correct my memory, but I was there when Mitt Romney dropped out of the presidential primary one year and people in the CPAC audience, which didn't have cell service at the time were shocked. I saw people crying. Like, you know, it was like it used to be a big newsy newsmaker event and now it' you know, it's.

[Andrew Egger]

Always been a cross section of the biggest like news junkies on the right. Right. So like before that was like, yeah, you'd have people who are like really into Mitt Romney, but who were like really into Mitt Romney who like flew to D.C. so they could like see Mitt Romney speak. You know what I mean? It's not exactly like a median voter situation. But anyway, you are correct. It has gotten way weirder, way crazier, way more.

[Sam Stein]

What does it say from your vantage point about the state of the conservative movement or Trump, the Trump movement. Those are two distinct things, just to be clear. Go ahead.

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, it's a little hard to tell. And the reason it's a little hard to tell is because cpac. I don't mean to just keep doing all this ruminating on cpac, but it's this one guy's thing, right? Matt Schlapp, he's this lobbyist. He's been putting it on for years and he likes it because it lets him proclaim himself sort of like the Grand Poobah of conservatism. And there's a lot of self congratulatory stuff there every year. And he is not like a dyed in the wool, like internal MAGA guy. He's a lobbyist. He's like a schmoozer. He's a handshake. Scott.

[Sam Stein]

Well, he's remade him. He's made himself into one for purposes of advancement.

[Andrew Egger]

That's what's been interesting about it, is that CPAC was kind of on the vanguard of letting all these people in. He invited Donald Trump to speak before it was clear that Donald Trump was going to be welcome on the right. He invited RFK Jr. And Tulsi Gabbard to speak as soon as they kind of made themselves members of the MAGA coalition. He's kind of like a, a way for these people to kind of come in and ingratiate themselves and be on the team. He's not, to his bones, a MAGA guy because he's kind of an establishment guy. There's also this weird like, tension always, like on day one of cpac, there was a lot of like kind of mini controversy because January 6th defendants were showing up and like expecting to have the red carpet rolled out for them and then being like turned away. They weren't able to like come in. There was like, right.

[Sam Stein]

But he then didn't he then like, say, oh, no, you're welcome here.

[Andrew Egger]

Yes, because it blew up on right wing Twitter and they quickly kind of covered their butts and were like, no, we love our January 6th Patriots.

[Sam Stein]

Come on in. They're all up for you. What's the nut graph here? What's the big picture takeaway?

[Andrew Egger]

Oh, I never know. You make me go to cpac. You pull in the stuff, you see the sites. I mean, the craziest thing to me about CPAC was a couple things. First of all, we are exporting election denialism. Now there was like a CPAC Hungary and like a CPAC Brazil and a CPAC Korea, all of which, you know, the kind of like, theme was like, the leftists in our countries are trying to steal all of our elections and they're illegitimate. And, you know, we need to prop up these kind of, you know, God emperor figures like you guys have successfully done now in America. Congratulations, American CPAC Patriots. We need to see that replicated in, you know, Korea or whatever. Not exactly framed in those terms, but that's sort of the gist. Sure. The weird thing, like, yeah, it was all Trump, but it was not as like, ostentatiously all Trump as it has been in past years. I think, like, like in, in previous years, there was sort of this, this like, active, deliberate, like, we are the Trump people. We're going to like, say that every sentence. And they were still saying it a lot, obviously, but like, that's just in the water now. You know, it's Trump's party and like, there isn't this kind of need to reaffirm that 900,000 times. Except that they, you know, they still do. But do you understand what I'm saying? Like, it's a little bit.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Well, I'm kind of curious how much of it is. Well, maybe you could say, are they more elonish than Trumpish at this point or are we not there yet?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's the thing about cpac, like, I know I keep saying the thing about cpac. It's not, it's not like it, it's not like it's that thoughtful. Right? It's not like it's not.

[Sam Stein]

You can get a sense of what's going on.

[Andrew Egger]

If you go to cpac, you are never going to be presented with like a piece of programming that makes you think, huh, am I more of a Trump guy or am I more of an Elon guy? Right. It's like it's this whole big cheerleading thing. Right?

[Sam Stein]

What were There any actual points of tension in the room? Right. Like it used to be you go to cpac, there'd actually be some sort of intramural debates, some maybe, you know, it could be about trade, it could be about, you know, social issues like gay marriage. Right. Was there any sense of sort of internal debate or conflict or tension even in the halls at the, what is it, the Gaylord Hotel?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, the Gaylord national in Oxon Hill. So with the caveat that I was there for one day, you know, there might have been stuff on Thursday, there might have been stuff on Saturday. I did not see a lot of internal conflict other than the stuff I was just describing of like the. Is CPAC, you know, kicking out our January 6th?

[Sam Stein]

Should we, should we, should we embrace January 6th or should we just hug them tightly, you know?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, but like, but it really, I mean, I mean it really is crazy how much events like this have now kind of self selected for their people. Right? Like, if you, why would you show up, why would you show up if.

[Sam Stein]

You disagree with these people?

[Andrew Egger]

They're not. The CPAC straw poll, they put out this straw poll every year and it used to be kind of an interesting thing. It used to actually be kind of like, you know, you'd look at it and maybe you'd get some insights in how various cliques of conservatism were feeling about various people or various issues. And more recently, it's become just this bizarre sort of cheerleading event. They take the straw poll and then they read the results of the straw poll off from the stage, kind of revel in their unanimity about everything. You know, it's like sample straw poll question. Have the opening weeks of the Donald Trump administration been the best weeks for conservatism in your lifetime? 99% say yes.

[Sam Stein]

Woo.

[Andrew Egger]

You know, like USA, USA CPAC. And that's the sort of thing. It really is just this. I mean, it's not just an echo chamber. It is like a. It's a cultivated echo chamber where it's all like, how fun is it that we're all in this echo chamber and we're winning? Is kind of the energy, right?

[Sam Stein]

Was there. I mean, do they just feel like they're having like the time of their lives now because they finally are back in power and do they actually. Is there. If you could you, could you like sense any trepidation at all, I suppose about how things are going or.

[Andrew Egger]

No, no trepidation. But also, weirdly, not quite as much euphoria as you might expect. And I Don't know. I was actually thinking about this a lot. I don't know if it all felt a little bit kind of tired and going through the motion z. And I don't know if that's because I was there for the lamer content, you know, like, I was there on, like, for the Friday matinee and the Saturday primetime showing was Donald Trump. I'm sure they got. He got a warmer reception than the stuff I was doing. But also, like, I don't know. I do think that there is something in the. Kind of in the water for a lot of these people where. Because the whole thing is just built on this kind of permanent state of grievance. It's just kind of hard to turn that off.

[Sam Stein]

Well, that's what I was gonna. That's what I was wondering is. Because everything is about a plot against them or a rigged system against them or a deep state against them, and now they are the deep state, and they've beaten the rigged system and they have all the power. It's like when you build your entire or most of your movement on grievance, and then suddenly you are granted the kingdom. Like, what else do you do?

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are still so early in the. In the whole Trump show.

[Sam Stein]

It feels like it's been years.

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, well, yeah, but, like, all the. All the programs are just. I mean, they haven't passed a single piece of legislation. You know, all the cab secretaries just got confirmed. And so, like, there's still. We are still kind of in this moment where, like, the dog just caught the car and is still kind of, like, exulting over that. There hasn't been a ton of, like, what's. Okay. What's the next thing? What's the next thing? And yet, like. Like I was saying, like, like, still weird little, like. Like holding on to weird little grievances from, like, a few days ago. Just this one panel. The first panel I saw when I walked in was like, you know, against woke culture in Hollywood who's, like, inclusion delusion, you know, Hollywood survivors. And it was like this guy who used to be the CEO of the Hallmark Channel who was like, on this jag complaining about how when the Hallmark Channel aired the Christmas tree lighting for Donald Trump back in his first year in office, there were people who complained about that. And he's like, well, I just thought this Christmas tree lighting would be this kind of beautiful little thing. And. And people were so mad. And, you know, it's incredible that that's still. I know, I know. Like, I. I don't know how he's on the stage. I don't know. Like, why.

[Sam Stein]

Because there are no dead grievances. Things from, like, 10 years ago, they still exist.

[Andrew Egger]

And that's true. And, you know, that's true of anybody. Right. You can kind of dust off a thing you used to be mad about and kind of get yourself mad about it again. But also, like, the whole political movement's built on that. Right? I mean, it's like, you know, you have this whole library now, and you can take down any book from the shelf and kind of retrigger yourself all over again. And you never have to stop feeling grievance. So that's. I guess the weird thing about CPAC is yes, they are winning, but, yes, there is still so much. So much grievance there, despite the fact that there in the driver's seat.

[Sam Stein]

Last thing I gotta ask you, because Matt Schlatt has a few scandals and stories surrounding him. Let's. Let's speak carefully here, because we. We want to make sure that we don't say anything we don't regret. But was that in the air at all? Did people. Were people discussing these? And Pete, if you're watching this, I don't want to get into the details because this is a, you know, this is a PG13 YouTube channel, but you can Google it.

[Andrew Egger]

Yeah, you can Google it. He's involved in an altercation. There was a police report.

[Sam Stein]

People can do the Googling. Was that.

[Andrew Egger]

The answer is not on stage. I. Yeah, I did not see it litigated.

[Sam Stein]

It'd be weird if it was on stage, buddy. Hey, Matt.

[Andrew Egger]

Well, he is so much on stage. I mean, like, he. He himself.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, but even. Who cares? That'd be very weird if, like, it'd be very weird if a speaker got up there and said, oh, now that I'm done exalting Robert F. Kennedy, hey, Matt, can we talk about what happened at that bar in Virginia? That'd be weird. No, but it wasn't in the audience.

[Andrew Egger]

No, I did see. I did. I did overhear just one interaction outside of cpac, kind of in the media row. And it was just very quick. Like, Matt was. Matt Schlapp was walking past, and he just kind of got buttonholed by, like, a random guy who was kind of like, hey, Matt, you know, like, sorry, sorry your wife had to. Had to come out and defend you again, and kind of laughed about it a little bit. And that was it. That was the whole interaction. But it was like, it was weird because it's like, plainly, this is on at least some people's mind as they're going into this. But, I mean, what are you gonna do? Like, he runs CPAC and you're not. What are you. Are you not gonna go to cpac? I mean, come on.

[Sam Stein]

So I'll send you there regardless. I'm shocked that they let you in. All right, Andrew. I know you got a lot to do. Thank you for your dispatch. Thank you for your service.

[Andrew Egger]

Thanks, Sam.

[Sam Stein]

No hazard pay for this one, but thank you for your service. We will be checking in with you on all your writings on morning shots, which people should get, and we'll see soon.