Distracted Trump Rambles While Iran War Expands

Summary

Bulwark Takes – Episode Summary
Episode Title: Distracted Trump Rambles While Iran War Expands
Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Eli Stokols (Bulwark Managing Editor)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into President Trump’s latest public appearances and responses as the Iran war expands, highlighting his seeming distraction, lack of focus, and problematic handling of foreign policy communication at a time of escalating Middle East conflict. Tim Miller and Eli Stokols assess Trump’s press conference performance, his claims about international alliances, and Vice President J.D. Vance’s equivocal position on the war, drawing attention to the administration’s messaging and internal dissent.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Disconnected Oval Office Performance

(Start ~02:18):

• Tim notes Trump, in a gold tie and with VP J.D. Vance, gave a rambling, unfocused press conference that was concerning given the current stakes in the Iran war.

• Miller references John Lovett’s critique:
  “Anyone who thinks that we should fund this man’s war must be forced to watch this whole press conference, Clockwork Orange style, because it just betrays somebody that does not have any connection with the real world.” (03:01)

• Eli describes watching Trump:
  “He’s got a fairly acute case of ADD because he just like, he can’t stay on topic.” (03:26)
  Trump spent part of his day discussing minutia at a Kennedy Center board meeting instead of focusing on the crisis.

2. Trump’s Handling of Iran’s Widening War

(Clips discussed beginning ~06:07):

On Iran’s Attacks:

• Trump is asked if he was surprised by the scope of Iran’s retaliation:
  Donald Trump (06:23):
  “Nobody? Nobody. No, no, no, no. The greatest experts. Nobody thought they were going to hit... They were like, neutral... They lived with them for years, Peter. They were going to take over the Middle East. They were going to knock out Israel with their nuclear weapon. But after we knocked out their nuclear potential...They started building missiles. Thousands and thousands of missiles...”

• Hosts’ Reaction:
  Tim and Eli point out the absurdity in claiming “nobody expected” Iran’s attacks on regional countries, noting this possibility had been foreseen and even simulated by the NSC.

  • “Anybody who knew anything about the region knew that Iran would do that...” (Tim, 07:00)
  • Eli: “I have a feeling we’re going to get some sort of white paper...this is exactly what we expected. Reminds me of the Straight of Hormuz thing...” (07:38)

On Iranian Motivations:

• Eli offers analysis:
  “I don’t think they did this non-strategically...they clearly calculated, ‘we’re going to make this painful for everyone involved...make oil so expensive that these countries are going to cry uncle.’” (08:23)

• Tim:
  “That is... obviously was going to be their strategy...cause enough pain that the United States and Israel decide it’s not worth it, or the Arab countries say, ‘make this stop.’” (08:50-09:21)

3. Trump’s “War for Israel” Rhetoric

• Tim criticizes the administration’s claim that the war is for Israel:
  “Trump... keeps doing the thing ...where they, like, say that they did the war for Israel, which I don’t think is helpful... The Iranian regime was as weak as they have been in decades...the idea that... they were going to get nuked imminently.” (09:21-10:10)

• Eli:
  “One is...this was an actual legitimate threat in the medium term...distinct from what Trump is saying—which is that they were looking for Middle East domination...” (10:10)

• They highlight the political risk of appearing to fight Israel’s war and not America’s:
  “It’s absolutely turning public opinion against Israel in the United States and against Trump.” (Eli, 11:13)

4. Trump’s “Secret Validator” and Imaginary Presidential Conversations

(Clip ~12:11):

• Trump claims a former president from another party validated his actions against Iran:
  “It’s somebody that happens to like me... that person said, ‘I wish I did it’...” (Donald Trump, 12:31)

• Tim and Eli debate whether this claim is fabricated, joking perhaps Trump meant himself:

  • Tim: “Maybe it was Trump speaking to himself in the mirror because he was also a former president. That’s one theory.” (14:41)
  • Both agree it’s unlikely to be Biden or Obama; possibly Clinton, though this is unconfirmed. Tim notes Clinton’s denial was “interestingly precise.”
  • Eli: “Usually how these things work is that there’s a tiny, tiny kernel of truth and Trump just absolutely exaggerates.” (16:26)

5. J.D. Vance: Ambiguity and Reluctant Endorsement

(Clip ~19:00):

• J.D. Vance, pressed about his previous skepticism of foreign intervention, avoids affirming the Iran war, dodging yes/no answers: “What the President said consistently going back to 2015, and I agreed with them, is that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon...I think all of us, whether you’re a Democrat or Republican, should pray for success and pray for the safety of our troops...” (Vance, 19:16)

• Tim points out the evasiveness:
  “He never says yes...he’s deliberately trying to not have his fingerprints on this.” (21:07, 21:09)

• Eli:
  “He’s not boosting this thing...He’s not saying, ‘I’m supporting this.’” (23:48)

6. Internal Spin, Anonymous Sourcing, and the Vice President’s True Position

(24:41–27:04):

• Discussion of Politico’s reporting that “Vance is skeptical” (24:41), with Tim and Eli dissecting how such anonymously sourced quotes appear in the press, and the challenges reporters face parsing real dissent from White House spin.
• Eli shares editorial experience:
  “You do that on every story and you have to judge the motivations of the sources, the quality of the source...It’s a parlor game and it’s a difficult one for the editors and the reporters.” (27:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(03:01) John Lovett via Tim Miller:
“Anyone who thinks that we should fund this man’s war must be forced to watch this whole press conference, Clockwork Orange style, because it just betrays somebody that does not have any connection with the real world.”

(03:26) Eli Stokols:
“He’s got a fairly acute case of ADD because he just, like, he can’t stay on topic.”

(06:23) Donald Trump:
“Nobody? Nobody. No, no, no, no...Nobody thought they were going to hit... They were like, neutral...They were going to take over the Middle East.”

(08:23) Eli Stokols:
“They clearly calculated, ‘we’re going to make this painful for everyone involved...make oil so expensive that these countries are going to cry uncle.’”

(19:16) J.D. Vance:
“What the President said... is that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. We have taken this military action under the President’s leadership. I think all of us...should pray for success...”

(21:09) Eli Stokols on Vance:
“He’s clearly trying to not get tied to this thing. I don’t know. I find that really fascinating.”

(27:04) Eli Stokols on journalism & sourcing:
“You do that on every story and you have to judge the motivations of the sources, the quality of the source seeing it’s a parlor game and it’s a difficult one for the editors and the reporters.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:29 — Intro to Trump’s distracted performance and war context
• 03:16 — Summary of Trump’s Kennedy Center and Oval Office distractions
• 06:07 — Trump pressed on Iran’s retaliation, breakdown of his (mis)statements
• 08:23 — Discussion on Iran's strategic aims and the wider war
• 10:10 — “War for Israel” rhetoric and political risk domestically
• 12:11 — Trump’s claim of “another former president” approving his Iran moves
• 14:41 — Hosts debate the legitimacy of Trump’s validator story
• 19:00 — J.D. Vance’s evasive answers on supporting the Iranian war
• 21:07 — Breakdown of Vance’s reluctance to give a direct answer
• 24:41 — Inside the politics of anonymous sourcing about Vance's skepticism
• 27:31 — Reflection on internal White House spin and media coverage

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Conclusion

Miller and Stokols portray a White House led by a distracted, rambling president amid an escalating war, with ambiguous and hesitant support from within his administration—particularly from Vice President J.D. Vance. The hosts cast doubt on Trump’s grasp of events and foreign policy coherence, while exposing the turmoil and uncertainty shaping both White House spin and media coverage. The tone is incredulous, skeptical, and tinged with dark humor throughout.

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For listeners seeking a sharp, skeptical rundown of today’s U.S. leadership in crisis, this episode delivers candid, behind-the-scenes insight, press performance critique, and warnings about the consequences of disconnected wartime leadership.

Transcript

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[Eli Stokols]

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[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody, it's Tim Miller on the Bulwark Takes feed with managing editor Sam Stein. I am taking the wheel as the driver of this Bulwark take because Sam was just having a meltdown like I've never seen in the grave room. Bill O'Reilly style meltdown over his audio and visual not working. Cutting it was truly magical. I wish we had recorded it for you.

[Eli Stokols]

What are you supposed to do when every bit of audio just doesn't work other than just go crazy? And I went crazy and I just

[Tim Miller]

haven't seen you lose your cool like that sometimes, you know, and it's good to know it's in there. You know, every once in a while people are like, Sam isn't mad enough and it's usually not your nature. You're an even keel guy, so it's good to know.

[Eli Stokols]

I try to be. But when you're external headphones and then the plugins don't work, just can set someone off, I guess.

[Tim Miller]

Know that you're a man like everyone else. You breathe you got blood pumping through your veins. Okay, Donald Trump, not a man like everyone else. What a segue in the Oval Office today. Gold tie, strangely very strange out of his normal uniform. And he was there with the Vice President, J.D. vance as well. They took some Q and A, some hard hitting questions from Peter Doocy at Fox News and others. And I guess before, there are three clips in particular we wanted to talk about. But overall, I was on Nicole as this was happening, and I noticed something come in from my friend John Lovett over at Cricket Media, who was just like, anyone who thinks that we should fund this man's war must be forced to watch this whole press conference, Clockwork Orange style, because it just betrays somebody that does not have any connection with the real world. And that's pretty concerning, given the stakes here.

[Eli Stokols]

What part set Love it off? Cause there was like five.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know what I'm saying. I'm curious. So you having watched the whole thing before we get the clips, like, what struck you?

[Eli Stokols]

Well, he's got a fairly acute case of ADD because he just like, he can't stay on topic. So there's actually two events today. One was he did the Kennedy center board meeting, which was really just his best buddies who are going to do it well.

[Tim Miller]

And that's where he discussed how Rick Grinnell was pounding people.

[Eli Stokols]

Yeah, I saw your tweet on that.

[Tim Miller]

He had been fired. Rick Grinnell was fired from, from the Kennedy center board. Rick Grinnell wanted to be the Secretary of State. He wanted to be the Vice President that was reporting Rick Grinnell.

[Eli Stokols]

Rick wanted to be vice president.

[Tim Miller]

Only gay friend. Yeah. Wanted to be vice president, then wanted to be Secretary of State. He's so detestable in interpersonal relationships that like Susie Wiles was like, I cannot be on conference calls with this man. He cannot be in the Cabinet. So he got pushed aside. He didn't get a job. His job that he was then eventually given was stereotypically the head of the arts theater. And he turned people off so much there that he had to be pushed aside from that as well. And explaining what happened, Trump was talking about how Rick was giving the artists a pounding and that's maybe not what you should be doing at work in the workplace.

[Eli Stokols]

And I saw, yeah, I saw how you picked up on that news.

[Tim Miller]

That was one press conference.

[Eli Stokols]

Yeah, well, let's just pause for a second because we're in the middle of this war and things are dicey on being charitable. And this man is just like spending a couple hours in the middle of his day, talking about the marble seating at the Kennedy Center. He's kind of, sit back. You're like, okay, why are we doing any time whatsoever on this? So that was one thing. And then the other thing is just he's pressed on sort of, well, you've destroyed them, but you haven't. And you said countries are going to help us, but they aren't. And so it's like, there's absolutely no details or specifics. So it's like, what countries are you. Are you talking to? And he's like, well, I don't want to say. It's like, well, you know, who are you talking to? Ah, you know, everyone's really complimentary of how we're doing things. You know. Did you anticipate this stuff? Of course we did. It's like, I don't know what Lovett was referring to, but at various points I was just like, I just doesn't seem like he's on top of it.

[Tim Miller]

You don't say no. Okay. Well, there are a couple of clips in particular from social media that caught my eye, and so I would like to play those. I guess we'll start first with two clips from Trump himself and then one from JD the first one I want to play is he gets asked a question by Doocy kind of about whether some of this should have been foreseeable, and he doesn't think so. Let's watch.

[Bretzky]

You were talking about Iran a couple times today and what they did after.

[Eli Stokols]

Get out of the shop.

[Bretzky]

You said they hit Qatar, Saudi Arabia,

[Eli Stokols]

get out of the shot.

[Bretzky]

Bahrain, Kuwait. Nobody expected that. We were shocked. Are you surprised that nobody briefed you ahead of time that that might be their retaliation?

[Donald Trump]

Nobody? Nobody. No, no, no, no. The greatest experts. Nobody thought they were going to hit. They were. I wouldn't say friendly countries. They were like, neutral.

[Tim Miller]

They were.

[Donald Trump]

They lived with them for years, Peter. They were going to take over the Middle East. They were going to knock out Israel with their nuclear weapon. But after we knocked out their nuclear potential. Their nuclear potential weapon, they started building missiles. Thousands and thousands of missiles. And they were going to do it with missiles while they developed. These are sick people.

[Tim Miller]

Now, there's a lot to unpack there.

[Eli Stokols]

Is there?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. The top level is just like a total hallucination about, like, what really was happening in the Middle East. And that's a problem. I guess there are a few elements. Number one, the. No, no. Nobody expected Iran to attack the other countries in the Middle east, you know, where we have bases and they did this last. It's just like they attacked the other countries where we have bases last time. Anybody who knew anything about the region knew that Iran would do that. Then there's the element about they're going to nuke Israel. I don't know. I guess let's focus first on the, on the Arab countries. The fact that Trump said nobody expected this, nobody briefed him on it, totally blindsided.

[Eli Stokols]

One, you're right. Like they did this last time, they talked to all these countries. And two, I have a feeling like my guess is that we're going to get like some sort of white paper that was produced by the NSC that's like actually, yeah, this is exactly what we expected. It reminds me of the straight up from Ooze thing where it's just like, well, no one could have anticipated that they shut down the street. And then it turns out, yeah, that's like in every single game planning scenario for how the Iranians would we deal with this. So I don't think that one's going to hold up particularly well.

[Tim Miller]

And it continues. I mean I'm just looking at this like as, like we're talking right now as we're taming this as he was talking this afternoon on Monday, you know, Iran hit today an oil and gas field in the UAE hit an oil field in Iraq. Saudi Arabia is being targeted by drone swarms.

[Eli Stokols]

So I will say, I mean I found it at first kind of surprising that the Iranians were doing this, right? It's because conventionally, like, well, why would you widen the war and bring in more countries potentially. But it's clear, I mean I don't think they did this non strategically right. I think they clearly calculated like we're going to make this painful for everyone involved and we're going to go out, we're going to go after US assets in the region and we're going to make oil so expensive that these countries are going to cry uncle. And I think that's essentially what they're doing.

[Tim Miller]

And that is. And JD JBL wrote about this last week in his trial. You can go read it. Like that is like obviously was going to be their strategy. Maybe not the specifics of every tactic, but like this notion of we're going to make this painful. We can't beat them in a war of like who bombs who more. You know, we're gonna get points on the board for like most successful missiles landed. Like they're not gonna win that against the United States and Israel. But you can cause enough pain that the United States and Israel decides it's not worth it, or the United States in particular decides it's not worth it,

[Eli Stokols]

or the Arab countries are just like, hey, make this stop.

[Tim Miller]

There are countries Trump's in business with and that he's allies with. So there's that. I do just wanna sit for one more second on the Israel thing, because Trump, like, keeps doing the thing. And Marco, they keep doing the thing where they, like, say that they did the war for Israel, which I don't think is helpful to their mission or toward their ally Israel or anything in terms of saying, like, yeah, Iran was going to nuke Israel, and so we had to do it and they were going to go and they had. I forget exactly what Trump said, but something about how they were going to go take over the whole region. And it's like, they weren't. The Iranian regime was as weak as they have been in decades, and we had supposedly obliterated their nuclear program. Like, the idea that not even the most hawkish Likud people in Israel, I don't think would say that they, like, we're going to get nuked imminently.

[Eli Stokols]

Maybe the most hawkish would, honestly. So let's separate two things here. One is, I do think, certainly for the Israelis, and I think there is a strand of foreign policy thinking that's like, yeah, this was an actual legitimate threat in the medium term, maybe even the short term, to the Israelis. That is distinct from what Trump is actually saying here, which is that they were looking for Middle east domination. And on top of that, if Israel attacked them, they would attack us, which means we had to attack first.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, that.

[Eli Stokols]

Or that. Sorry, Rubio said that. That's a totally different strand of intervention. Right. That's not nuclear prevention. That's like, oh, we're being dragged into this war because this other country wants to attack Iran and we're going to suffer the consequences of it. And I do think you're right to say this is not a particularly helpful strand of argument that the administration is making, because one, it means that we are basically forfeiting, if you take it to a logical extent, we're forfeiting our foreign policy decisions to another country. And two, it's absolutely turning public opinion against Israel in the United States and

[Tim Miller]

against Trump, just like America First. Right. I mean, certainly like the, you know, the less ideologically committed america first people, 100%, you know, against it. Listen to the Tim Dillon podcast this weekend, and you'd say he's not so keen. And he had done with JD Vance not so long ago. We're gonna get back to JD Vance in a second. But first, one of the things Trump's looking for, he's looking for validators out there. Okay. He's grasping around. He came to the defense of micropenis. Marco Vin has been maybe the most hostile host to Trump on Fox. Not that hostile, but like, not particularly a big MAGA guy. More of an old school neocon type guy. Trump and Mark Levin are pals now because, Mark, you say nice things with or like, they blasted out Ben Shapiro's comments from the press office today. And so, you know, they're looking for allies. Trump offered another secret private validator. Yeah. Today, let's, let's show that.

[Bretzky]

I just want to ask you about something very interesting that you said twice today that you talked to another former president about the Iran strikes. Was it George W. Bush?

[Donald Trump]

No.

[Bretzky]

Was it Bill Clinton?

[Donald Trump]

I don't want to say. I don't want to say because Barack

[Tim Miller]

Obama, a member of a party, a

[Donald Trump]

member of a party they have Trump derangements in. But it's somebody that happens to like me. And I like that person who's a smart person, but that person said, I wish I did it. Okay, but I don't want to get into who. I don't want to get him into trouble.

[Bretzky]

Maybe, hey, I have a guess.

[Donald Trump]

You know what? I think you probably know. You know, it's interesting and maybe he'd be proud. I could even ask him that. Would you like me to reveal your name to Peter at Fox? Well, at least you have high ratings. Your ratings are through the roof, Peter.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you for noticing.

[Donald Trump]

Congratulations.

[Tim Miller]

That's the President of the United States. I mean, he's very low energy. He's kind of where the dentures feel like they're shaking around coming out a little bit. He's talking about an imaginary conversation, maybe.

[Eli Stokols]

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[Tim Miller]

I guess we should start with the imaginary president that told him that he wished he did it. Maybe it was Trump speaking to himself in the mirror because he was also a former president. That's one theory.

[Eli Stokols]

Maybe. Yes, that's it. Okay, go on.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well, let's go through the other possibles. Definitely not Joe Biden. Okay. I don't.

[Eli Stokols]

If it was Joe Biden, my head will fucking explode.

[Tim Miller]

They probably put Joe Biden's picture up in the White House. Joe Biden's sleep a lot.

[Eli Stokols]

And so maybe he talked to the auto pen and thought it was Joe Biden.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know. The auto pen is nice. Was not Barack Obama.

[Eli Stokols]

He said it wasn't Barack Obama. He said it wasn't Barack Obama.

[Tim Miller]

Well, he said it wasn't George W. Bush.

[Eli Stokols]

Oh, sorry. He said it wasn't George Bush.

[Tim Miller]

He said it wasn't George W. Bush. He said it was from someone from the other party that has Trump derangent syndrome. Bill Clinton is the only possible candidate here. Okay. And I think we should just bat that around for a second. Hillary has at times there's this old clip going around from her for I think last year people on social media were misinterpreting it as recently. But clip going around of her complimenting some of Trump's foreign policy stuff. So the Clintons aren't above that. Bill and Trump both have the Epstein thing. Common. Trump's been nice to Bill a bunch recently on that.

[Eli Stokols]

He has. He has.

[Tim Miller]

They shouldn't go after him on this. So I wouldn't be surprised if they talked because of that. Bill likes to talk. I'm just saying if it were someone, it would be Bill. The Clinton team has put out a statement that Bill Clinton has not talked to Trump about Iran, which was, I think, an interestingly precise statement.

[Eli Stokols]

I mean, it opens the door to them talking Right, Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

What have they talked about? I do wonder. It kind of raises more questions than it answers that statement. But anyway, what do you think? Could it possibly be Bill Clinton telling him that he wishes he invaded Iran?

[Eli Stokols]

I mean, usually how these things work is that there's like a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny kernel of truth. And Trump just absolutely exaggerates. Like, for instance, today at the Kennedy center event, Trump just blurted out that he warned way before 911 happened that Osama bin Laden was going to, you know, knock down the Twin Towers, which he did not do. In his book, he had some mention about Osama bin Laden being a shadowy figure that we should have our eyes on, but he never warned about the Twin Towers. But Trump, Trump has this thing where he takes a little tiny kernel of truth and kind of weaves some threads. So there's possibility that maybe like a couple months ago, a couple years ago, I don't know, something that Bill Clinton, he talked and Bill Clinton said, you know, one thing I wish I had done, that's pretty good.

[Tim Miller]

Seems like he and Bill talked. Seems like he. Yeah, well, they clearly talked since the Epstein stuff.

[Eli Stokols]

It wasn't Biden, it wasn't Obama. And maybe they didn't talk. Maybe they did talk after the Epstein stuff came out, but I don't think Bill's. Hey, I wish I had bombed a Rob.

[Tim Miller]

The whole thing is pretty bizarre.

[Eli Stokols]

Wait, why are you not complimenting my Bill? That's the first time I've done a Bill impersonation. I think it's pretty good.

[Tim Miller]

It was pretty good. Thank you. I appreciate it. I don't want to gas you up too much, just the rest of it, because the last comes from JD Just overall, again, he doesn't seem to be too sharp. I guess the President is just another observation. He's riffing. That was a very rambly riff, though. It's low energy. He looks tired. That's pretty concerning.

[Eli Stokols]

I am concerned again, though, my, my main concern is not necessarily that he's got low energy, which, whatever, he, I mean, he's playing a lot of golf, he's doing Kennedy center stuff, he's, you know, bleeding about random shit. My concern is that he can't keep attention and that he's just drifting into weird pockets and like, you know, normally that you can live with that because whatever, that's him. But in this, in this case, I think the stakes are sufficiently high that I would like him to. Well, maybe I don't want him to pay attention. I don't know. I am torn about that. I wish he was more on the ball, let's put it that way.

[Tim Miller]

Doesn't seem like he's getting good info. And here is another maybe a little bit piece of evidence of that. J.D. vance, standing over Trump's shoulder, is asked about his past statements about Iran, whether he has any concerns. He does. You know, the hall monitor finger wag thing. Yeah, it's hard for me to watch. J.D. really.

[Eli Stokols]

I know it gets your blood going.

[Tim Miller]

Let's just do it. He's just so fucking annoying.

[Phil]

They're already calling you the Fraud Czar. What's your reaction to that title?

[Donald Trump]

And then Second, Good title.

[Eli Stokols]

Second.

[Donald Trump]

I like it.

[Phil]

Past Skepticism of Foreign Adventurism. Are you completely on board with the current war in Iran?

[J.D. Vance]

So I like Fraud Czar. I certainly would. What we're going to do, and look, we have to do it. As the President said, this is a problem that has festered in this country for far too long and far too few people have actually wanted to do anything about it. That's what makes this administration different, is that we actually tackle the problems the American people have been confronting. So I'm very happy about it.

[Tim Miller]

A lot of fraud tackling.

[J.D. Vance]

I think that I know what you're trying to do, Phil. You're trying to drive a wedge between members of the administration, between me and the President. What the President said consistently going back to 2015, and I agreed with them, is that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. We have taken this military action under the President's leadership. I think all of us, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, should pray for success and pray for the safety of our troops. That's the approach that I've taken. Make it as successful as possible.

[Phil]

So there's no hesitation, given your past statements, with the current operation.

[J.D. Vance]

What do you mean, there's no hesitation with my past statement?

[Phil]

Given your skepticism of foreign adventurism. You were a critic of the global war on terror previously.

[J.D. Vance]

Well, I think one big difference, Phil, is that we have a smart president, whereas in the past we've had dumb presidents. And I trust President Trump to get the job done, to do a good job for the American people and to make sure that the mistakes of the past aren't repeated. Absolutely.

[Eli Stokols]

That's fascinating. I know you hate the guy, but, like, that was a really fascinating clip. Never. I mean, okay, so he's asked a pretty simple question. Are you on board with this operation? Are you on board? It's a yes or no question. And he never says yes. Ever. Never says yes. And then he's asked a follow up question. He's like, so there's no hesitations. And he never says no, no hesitations. He says, I trust Donald Trump's leadership where others have failed. He says, we should all be praying for success. And he says, you're trying to drive a wedge between me and Donald Trump. And never once does he say, I support what's happening here. Ever wild.

[Tim Miller]

He's good at weasel words. He's very good at weasel words.

[Eli Stokols]

I don't think that was that good. I think he was. I think he, well, maybe he, I think he's deliberately trying to create distance. I think he's deliberately trying to not have his fingerprints on this.

[Tim Miller]

It's not going to work.

[Eli Stokols]

No, of course not. It absolutely will not work. But I think he's trying to preserve the possibility. I mean, they leaked to the, whatever paper that he was against in, except he wanted to go big. I think he's trying to preserve the possibility that he can say I was against this thing.

[Tim Miller]

He might be trying to do that. I don't know. It ain't going to work. And I also caught that we pray for the troops, we pray for the success. It's just like, well, sure, but what about, do we think that there's going to be success? Do I expect success? What is success? There's a lot unsaid.

[Eli Stokols]

I mean, there was the other day where he was asked, what kind of advice did you give the President in these Oval Office discussions about the war? And he's like, well, I'm not going to get into detailing the advice I gave Trump because I want the advice to remain confidential. That's fine. But he could have at any point in that answer been like, I support the action, but I'm not going to tell you. He's just, he's clearly trying to not get tied to this thing. I don't know. I find that really fascinating.

[Tim Miller]

Here's the thing, though. Does it seem like just the, let's just do a little kind of armchair alpha male analysis of body language there? Does JD Seem like he's given Donald Trump a lot of real talk behind the scenes to you just reading that? Does it seem like he's somebody that's like, that is actually in private, you know, offering him critiques and criticism that he just doesn't want to share publicly? Because that's what he's, that's what he's trying to say, is that like behind the scenes in the Situation Room, I'm giving real talk, but I don't want to in public. I don't want to offer that. And I don't think that that's true. It just doesn't appear to me very likely that that's true.

[Eli Stokols]

If I had to guess, he's probably not playing a very forceful role behind the scenes. Right. He's probably just sort of not a wallflower or anything like that. But I'm guessing he's playing his cards close to the chest and supportive of the president. Maybe he did express reservations, but said if we're going to do it, go big. But he's clearly trying to not get pinned down in any specific direction. He's not boosting this thing. Certainly not. Like Hegseth, for instance, is like, all in. He couldn't be more all in than Hegseth. Right. Even Scott Besants out there this morning riffing in weird CNBC interviews about how great it's going. It's the greatest thing. And, like, there are other cabinet members who are out there, you know.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Comparing this to, like World War II. That's what Besson was like, they're Hitler. Hitler's in the bunker. We've got him on the run. Like, that's. Yeah, he's doing that.

[Eli Stokols]

J.D. vance is like, we're praying for the troops. And, you know, don't try to make a, you know, division in the Cabinet. That's the, that's like the lowest thing, the lowest bar to clear is what he's clearing. He's not, he's not saying, I'm supporting this.

[Tim Miller]

I want to ask you one more thing about this. Putting on your old. You were an editor once.

[Eli Stokols]

I am an editor.

[Tim Miller]

You're an editor at a mainstream media news outlet. You are, you'd remain an editor. Thank you. You're an editor in the corporate media who have different standards. They have different standards. And that's, you know, sometimes people shoot from the hip about, like, what happens behind the scenes. You've been behind the scenes there. And I want to ask you about this related to Vance. Politico reported last week Vance is, quote, skeptical, is, quote, worried about success and, quote, just opposes the war on Iran, a senior Trump official said via text message. So that's the full sentence that's in Politico.

[Eli Stokols]

Read that again.

[Tim Miller]

Vance is skeptical, is worried about success and just opposes the war in Iran, a senior Trump official said via text message. The official was granted anonymity to speak about the vice president's views. Is there any chance that that texter was the vice president? Like, how would that work? Attribution wise?

[Eli Stokols]

No, I don't think that would not fly.

[Tim Miller]

That would not. Attribution wise.

[Eli Stokols]

You can't hide your attribution like that. At least not when I was there. Let's put it this way. A single anonymous source via text for that has to be serious.

[Tim Miller]

It's a full story. It's Diana Nerazi and Eli Stokels and I trust them.

[Eli Stokols]

I mean the great reporters. It's gotta be serious. And I wanna, I'm not gonna speculate on their sources.

[Tim Miller]

There's a second source. You tell us. I just wanna read you. The second senior Trump official said that his roles to provide the president and the administration, you know, all points of view of what could happen from many different angles. And you know, he does that, but once the decision has been made, he's fully on board. So that like that second senior official to me seems like a spokesperson, a representative of the advance. Right. Like they're spinning. So like the first person remains a little bit more interesting.

[Eli Stokols]

Yeah, no, I, Mike, if I had to guess, it's like that's, I mean considering the quality of the reporters too, it's, it's sourced now. Is it self serving sourced? Yeah, probably. But like here's a little bit of like a little bit more behind the current stuff. Like this happens, people should understand this happens a lot. Like, you know, different camps want to get at their, their worldview and they try to work reporters to do it. And I was an editor on a piece during the Biden administration around the VP's office where similar skepticism around what was happening in Gaza was part of the piece. Okay. And editors have to take into consideration the motivations of their sources. And we spent a lot of time, a lot of time belaboring that piece about Kamala Harris and Gaza. A lot of time. Because we were wondering about the motivations, the sources. So that's all I'll say about that.

[Tim Miller]

And so your point was you spent a lot of time because you're trying to figure out like is it true that the vice president had. Had real issues or are they just saying that now to try to save face? That was what you were kind of trying to.

[Eli Stokols]

Are they, do they want to use us to make it clear to the public that oh, in fact behind the scenes, so and so is actually quite skeptical. And you do that on every story and you have to judge the motivations of the sources, the quality of the source seeing it's a parlor game and it's a difficult one for the editors and the reporters. And based on the quality of the reporters on this. I'm assuming they went through the, you know, the entire trappings and, you know, kick the tires and all that stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Right? We'll keep monitoring interesting stuff from the Vice President's office today for sure. Subscribe to the feed Tell your friends I'm sorry that we did not record Sam Stein's meltdown at the beginning. I feel a lot better than a Bulwark plus could have been Bulwark plus offering. You can join us and be a Bulwark plus member on some SEC or on YouTube. We'd love that. We'd appreciate your support. We do have bonus offerings and the next time I catch Sam cussing and throwing things, I will make sure to record it and you will get that access. So thank you guys. We'll see you soon.

[Eli Stokols]

Later.

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