← Bulwark Takes
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- [00:01]
A
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- [01:00]
B
Hey, everybody, it's Tim Muller from the Bulwark. Over the weekend, I had the pleasure of interviewing Don Lemon here in New Orleans, my adopted home. He's from Louisiana. We were in the basketball arena at Tulane and had a great crowd for 9am Hard to get up at 9am in Louisiana. And I got to see him for the first time since the Trump regime targeted him. We talked about that. I didn't really know the full backstory about how he was detained and arrested, what happened to him when he was being held. So we got into all of that. We also talked about independent media. You should go check him out if you haven't over on his YouTube feed and talked about, you know, news of the day got a little heavy at some point. So I also decided we needed to do some. A little lighter fare, you know, have some jokes for the people. So I hope you enjoy it. It was really great. Shout out to Cheryl Landrieu, who puts on this festival every year here in New Orleans and for letting us repurpose this for y'. All. So stick around for me and Don Lem. Out of town. How many are from out of town? What in the hell are you doing?
- [02:21]
C
They're all here for Tim. Look, all the people who came to see us.
- [02:24]
B
You did not do New Orleans. Correct. If you're in from out of town and you're at this panel at 9am, I'm sorry, you gotta fix that tonight. Good morning.
- [02:34]
C
How are you? Wait. Good morning.
- [02:37]
B
Yes.
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C
How many lemonheads in the house? Elimination, brother. Thanks for doing this, Tim.
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B
Why didn't you bring me any swag?
- [02:46]
C
I could get you some swag. I know some people.
- [02:48]
B
I'D like some swag. We're gonna start with this. Let's pull up the pants. Do you have an ankle bracelet? Ankle monitor. Well, all right.
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C
That's a free man right there. Not that I know of, but I did. I did, you know, I lotioned.
- [03:04]
B
That is a free man. Yeah. Boy, that had to be pretty fucking weird, you know, getting arrested.
- [03:13]
C
Can I tell you something weird? So yesterday, I'm sitting in the hotel room here, and I did my show from the room. And, you know, after the show, I look up and I had Ms. Now, on which you appear on. And Ally Belshee had the president's sort of enemies list up there with all the people who had. He had, you know, targeted. And then it had Don Lemon indicted. I was like, why am I up there?
- [03:39]
B
This is weird.
- [03:40]
C
I'm, like, up there with, like, Tish James. Like, it's weird.
- [03:45]
B
Like, did they give you a heads up? Like, were you in your underwear? Like, what?
- [03:50]
C
No. No heads up.
- [03:51]
B
No heads up.
- [03:52]
C
No. And look, I can. Just so you guys know, how are you. I can only talk about what's public. I can't talk discuss much of the details of whatever, but anything that's out there, I don't mind talking about it.
- [04:03]
B
And we can talk a little bit about the prison food. That's not public.
- [04:06]
C
You can ask me whatever you want. But the thing is, is that know, I had heard them. Excuse me, what is this changing this morning, I'd heard them talk about, you know, they were on TV right after it happened and saying, you know, don Lemon, Don Lemon, Don Lemon. And so I got an attorney, and my attorney sent them a letter saying, if you're serious, and, hey, we're ready. Let him self report, turn himself in.
- [04:31]
B
Yeah.
- [04:32]
C
Never heard back from them. And so the. The idea, the motivation is to embarrass you, right? And as I said, when I was released from the pokie, the process is the punishment. That's what they want to do. They want to embarrass you. They want to take you through. But, you know, they want to, you know, diminish your finances, diminish your ability to be able to make money, your credibility, your reputation, all of that. It's really maniacal.
- [05:05]
B
So how long were you in there? Like, I've been. I've only been in one time.
- [05:09]
C
Wait, wait, what'd you do?
- [05:11]
B
Well, I had a minor in possession of alcohol when I was 18, and then I didn't go to the classes, and then I got a traffic arrest in Vail, and they were like you have a warrant out for your arrest because you didn't go to your alcohol classes. So I was in the Vail.
- [05:26]
C
I should be interviewing you, Tim.
- [05:29]
B
I was in there for about three hours and I got a T shirt out of it. I still have it. It has the elevation. It. The veil. The veil. Jail is not exactly where the heavy hitters are, so I was. Okay, but what was your experience?
- [05:42]
C
It was. I was in there overnight. I think it was from about midnight to. So about. About full. 12 hours. 1112 hours midnight to, I think, noon the next day.
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B
Yeah, that's like by yourself or.
- [05:56]
C
Yeah, but I was.
- [05:57]
B
Make some friends. See Banner Made some jail friends.
- [05:59]
C
No, I did not make any jail friends. I was in a holding room. Never like an official cell, luckily, but because I will tell you that the folks who. Not the people who arrested me, they were jerks.
- [06:13]
B
Yeah.
- [06:14]
C
But the people who were in charge of me, and when they're in the holding part of it and processing, they could not have been kinder.
- [06:20]
B
And I had the same experience.
- [06:22]
C
You did. You had the same experience. So they're. Look, I know we talk a lot about federal agents and all of that, but those guys there are career professionals who work for the Department of Homeland Security who are not the goons who are out there with 47 days experience robbing people of their due process rights.
- [06:40]
B
Two different people.
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C
And they don't like being associated with those people.
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B
You can tell, and we've talked about this a little bit, I'm interested in your view that I'm like, I'm of multiple minds about this, but your situation. But also everybody's. Jim Comey's and Tish Chain, everybody on the list you saw in msnow. On the one hand, I'm angry because it's un American and it's horrible, and you deserve to be upset at them. On the other hand, I kind of want to mock them because it's been so ham handed. They came in with like, we have an enemies list and they've unsuccessfully jailed a single enemy. You know, Barack Obama walks free, you walk free, Tim Walls walks free, the sandwich man walks free. Like, they're struggling. And so on the one hand, I think it's better to moc them, but on the other hand, like, you're saying the process is the penalty and it's wrong. And I'm just wondering how you process that.
- [07:33]
C
Well, I'm sitting here now, you know, looking back with the perspective that I have now, we can joke about it a little because as I said, I'M not going to let them steal my joy. I'm from Louisiana. You know, I grew up a very churchy household. Right. When we say. When we talk about New Orleans, we say down the road. Because it said right up the road from Baton Rouge. Or as we say, Baton Rouge from br.
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B
BR.
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C
Growing up, going to. You know, everybody goes to the Catholic school. Like when I was growing up back in the late 60s, early 70s. No.
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B
Yeah, 1960.
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C
I just turned 60.
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B
Really?
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C
Yes.
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B
You look great.
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C
Thank you. I know it's. It's all. Look, it's all genetics because the. That I've been through in Alaska, maybe.
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B
Nice.
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C
My forehead still moves, baby. Sorry, Tim. You know what they say. I'm trying not to say it. Black don't crack.
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B
I was trying to get mistake.
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C
But here's the thing. Good beige don't age either. And so stay out of the sun.
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B
No problem.
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C
I'm just saying.
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B
But.
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C
So I'm not going to let them steal my joy. I grew up with faith, from a very faithful family. And, you know, I am. I'm not churchy. I do. You asked me the first thing. He said, did you go to church? Do you still go to church? And I said, yeah, the last time they tried. They arrest. Tried to arrest me. Sorry. The last time they arrested me for going to church. But I. I can joke about it now somewhat, but these are very serious charges. These are federal charges and like, conspiracy for like, you know, it's crazy. It's crazy.
- [09:08]
B
It's crazy.
- [09:09]
C
But, yeah, it's. What perspective did I gain is that they are maniacal. And I believe that they are not patriots. I believe that they don't believe in the Constitution, they don't believe in the Bill of Rights, because otherwise they would not be conducting themselves in the way that they are, and they would not be going after someone who you consider your political rival. And you're right, they're not having much success, if any, in any of this. It's a waste of resources. It's a waste of your tax dollars. For the number of people who came to arrest me and Georgia Ford and all the other people, even in different countries, these folks could have turned themselves in and saved you a hell of a lot of money and it wouldn't be all the hoopla. But first of all, why are they doing it anyways, you know?
- [10:00]
B
Yeah, I like to mock them. So I want to start with that.
- [10:03]
C
Go for it.
- [10:03]
B
Because they just. They still haven't jailed anybody, which is pretty tough for them. Zero. For they haven't jailed anybody for the 2020 election theft. I've noticed either.
- [10:12]
C
The one that was stolen.
- [10:13]
B
Yeah. You think they'd be able to find the culprit by now? Cash has been on that.
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C
I know.
- [10:19]
B
You know, but we'll see.
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C
Cash has got. Cash is busy. He's got. He's got locker rooms to do beer.
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B
He does got to go see his girlfriend sing at semi pro wrestling matches on our plane. The here. The here are the serious parts. So you're talking about the resources, and that is serious. The waste of tax dollars. But it's also like, these are. This is federal law enforcement. There's real shit to be worried about. We've got a war now, which we're about to start talking about. But, you know, obviously we have domestic terror threats. We've seen that over the course of the past week. We've got a lot of people who are experts who've either been fired or quit because they don't want to work for these guys or who are being redeployed to like, you know, do perimeter work outside the Home Depot. And like, that's happening at the prosecutor level, at the agent level, at the FBI level and like that. You know, you have to believe that there are real consequences to that at some point. These people do real jobs. These people do real jobs. They're supposed to. They're used to.
- [11:13]
C
At least they do real jobs. And that's what I mean. They're not patriots and they don't believe in the Constitution because these people are career professionals. You see the brain drain that's going on at all of these agencies. They are attacking very important systems and agencies and institutions in this country. So, yes, there's a real consequence. But just think. Let's just think about it on a human level that you have worked your entire life to do the right thing, because you do love this country. And it is. You are serving your country in a different way than the military, but you're still serving your country. And then all of a sudden, you have this lawless administration, or regime, as I like to call it. I don't like to call it an administration. You have them come in and there are people who are there that just spoke to a friend last night who have been there for a while and mean working for the government and working in these institutions. And maybe they have two, three years left, right? And they're like, I just. I'm a couple years away from retirement. I can't change my career at this point. And all they just want to do is hang On. And all of these bogus bullshit indictments and all this stuff. Their names are on those things. And they're like, I hope nobody notices that.
- [12:19]
B
Yeah, everybody had to quit in Minneapolis. And, like, they don't even have prosecutors. They're like, they tried to go after Renee Good's spouse. They're trying to go to. A lot of people quit. I got friends who are prosecutors in different. They quit other places like this, and they're just, like, trying to keep their head down. I don't want to say what district they're in, you know, because they're just like, I hope that nothing happens where I. Where I live, so I don't. So I can just survive this and do my job of prosecuting actual criminals.
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C
But, you know, what they're doing is they just keep prolonging these cases because they don't have the resources to fight, to fight, to adjudicate them or whatever it is.
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B
Or the facts.
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C
Or the. Or the facts, but it doesn't matter.
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B
You know, people are going down, looking around Georgia, you know, searching around for the ballots. I mean, those are all people that should be doing real work.
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C
Should be doing real work. And. Should I just say it?
- [13:08]
B
Let's do it.
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C
How can you have someone who is mentioned and who is accused of some very untoward things in the Epstein files and still not be brought into question, to be questioned when there are heads of state in other countries who have lost their positions, who have faced consequences simply for the association. Right.
- [13:33]
B
And not worse than that, actually. Yeah. We've got people actively. Who work for the government, actively covering up, you know, like Pam Bondi basically was like, you have to give me a share file of all the times that the president and cabinet members are mentioned in here.
- [13:46]
C
Have you noticed how quiet she's been lately?
- [13:48]
B
Yeah. Where is she? The other thing you're saying about them not being patriots is like, these are our fun. This is where my old Republican comes out. Democrats care, you know, you all care about the Constitution, too. The Democrats. But I had a pocket constitution before I was arrested in bail. You know, I went through a pocket constitution phase in high school, then a troublemaking phase, and then I came back. Came back around. Look, man, they went after you for your First Amendment. You're exercising your First Amendment right. Alex, Freddie and Renee Good are exercising their First Amendment right. Alex, Freddy's exercising his Second Amendment right to carry that firearm. Multiple people have been exercising their Fourth Amendment right to not have their houses or cars, whatever infringed upon. Like, these guys are Trampling over the basic fundamental rights in this country. Luckily for you, it was just one night in jail. But like look what happened to Alex Preddy.
- [14:41]
C
Yeah, yeah. And Alex and Renee and Keith Porter. Yeah, right. In California. Yeah. I mean it has real life or death consequences. And here's the, the hypocrisy and the irony of it all. We're in Iran. Supposedly this is one of the 10, maybe 25 excuses. Okay. Hundreds of excuses that they've given for, to justify which one? This unjustifiable war.
- [15:10]
B
The protesters.
- [15:11]
C
Yeah, I'm going with the protesters. They said because they shoot protesters. And I was like, we do too in America. And, or you know, Maduro. Well, he tried to steal an election. I said, so did you. So what happens if another country wants to come and arrest our leader for doing things that are unlawful? They have set a precedent.
- [15:35]
B
All right, Mark Carney looking at you. Emmanuel Macron. Yeah, let's send some French legionnaires in here in this bitch.
- [15:44]
C
But think about it. Think about this, Tim. You have that and then you have them saying Pete Hegseth saying, well this is how the headlines should be written. This is how the newspaper should go.
- [15:58]
B
Meaning what happens when you put a Fox and Friends co host in the
- [16:01]
C
department of Oil when he doesn't realize that's not how the media actually operates. Like Fox News. We don't just put shit on the screen just because that's how we want it to be. It has to be factual. So he doesn't understand that. But the fact that he thinks that it should be state run media, isn't that, don't you find that hypocritical? Because that's exactly what we're supposed to be fighting against Iran. That's why we're in this war with Iran is because they have state run media. They don't have a free press. People don't have rights in the Constitution as we do. It's a First Amendment. And so he's saying, hey look, this is how the press should only write favorable things about this administration and the war. It's outrageous.
- [16:41]
B
Yeah, let's talk about. Well, I want to talk about the meta conversation about the press covering the war. But I guess before we do, just on the actual war itself, I mean, did you get us, did you get as caught off guard as me? But I thought that Trump was, I have a pretty low regard for Trump. I don't know if you know that. Like I expect him to make a lot of bad decisions. When he got back in, I accepted him to be corrupt. I expected it to be a shit show. I kind of didn't. I thought this was the one thing that I was like, you know, I don't think he's going to do this. I don't think he's going to get us into a stupid Middle east war. And it was the fundamental case that he made against my candidates back in 2016 that he wasn't going to do that. And I just. I've kind of been blown away that he did this, that he's doing it. You're not.
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C
Tim. The.
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B
And I'm just saying, if you're not meeting my expectations as Trump, it's like you're really. You're really.
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C
When did you think he wasn't going to do it? It wasn't the time where he changed the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. Like, and you're supposed to be a peacetime president, and we're gonna get you out of. Every accusation is a confession. You know that. And so I had. Look, I. The bar is in hell for this administration.
- [17:56]
B
Yeah.
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C
And so I had. I'm not surprised about that. And this is coming from someone. Did you know that I was a Republican in college? I was a young Republican. No. Yes. At LSU. Yeah. You know, I was at LSU. It was, you know, it was the 80s. Everybody was doing it.
- [18:17]
B
Just Reagan, maxing and cocaine.
- [18:19]
C
LSU for Don Lemon and ecstasy.
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B
Okay.
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C
Yeah. But then honestly, I grew up and I realized, like, okay, you know, political parties are kind of bs.
- [18:35]
B
Yeah.
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D
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- [19:06]
B
The. The coverage of this, though, Look, I'm looking at your old network and there's a lot of people doing what good work. So I don't want to impugn with a broad brush. And I do think that actually, before I start, before we do a little media criticism, let's acknowledge something. There's one limitation to what we're doing in independent media. It's like the Bulwark doesn't have a Tehran bureau. You know, like, we don't get the reason. You know, the lemon heads don't. Don't have somebody on the ground in Beirut. You know, like, we can do what we can do. We can, like, try to, you know, find people, you know, in the moments to hire, bring in experts, all that kind of stuff. Right.
- [19:41]
C
But, like, we do bring folks in.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Journalists.
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B
Yeah, of course we do.
- [19:45]
C
We do.
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B
But, like, you need institutions that have the money and the reason, the expertise to do that kind of stuff.
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C
And no one does it better than cnn.
- [19:52]
B
Yeah. And there's a lot of people doing good work at cnn, so I want to acknowledge that. Okay. But now it does feel like there is this sense that they have to, like, you know, you got to hand it to the administration sometimes like that the panel can't just. Like that the people covering the news can't just be blunt about what this is, which is. It's a corrupt war. It's a stupid war. There's no point. They have not offered any rationale for it. And so underneath that, just because, like, they did some impressive bombings like that, that doesn't, you know, what is, who cares?
- [20:25]
C
Right.
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B
And I think that. And just because God loved the Iranian diaspora people, but, like, just because they're happy, like, does not take away the fact that this war was, you know, brought illegally and on false pretenses. And so I just, I just don't know if they're capable of doing it in the old, in the old institutions. Like, there's this old habits. There's still some. Some sniffs of how they would have covered this in the 90s.
- [20:50]
C
Well, I will say it's what you said. Yeah, it's right. You're 100% right. And I say it all the time. I don't know if you're watching, but I say it all the time. But I have. I think I have a bit more experience in corporate media than you do. As someone who was a primetime host, I was there for almost 17 years, and then NBC before that. Can you believe I worked at Fox before it was Fox News? I worked at a Fox station in New York that was. It was a Fox O and O station, and it was called the Fox News Exchange. It was all the, you know, the local stations that were owned by Rupert Murdoch and those guys. And so we would all get together and file reports and it would go into this big batch and it would go out to all the Fox stations. And this was before Fox News. And so anyway, so I have a long history with corporate media. And you're right, it's hard to turn that ship around because they think that's the way it should be done. They also think, mistakenly, that they're going to gain an Audience by trying to move a network into a certain direction. And these days it's to move it to the right because they believe that that audience is going to come to them. Because I was speaking to Kevin o' Leary the other night, and he said, well, CNN has to. They've got to come to the middles to gain more audience. I was like, you're out of your mind. That's never going to happen. Are you crazy? I was like, those folks are never, ever going to watch cnn and they're never going to watch any network that is a factual news organization. So that's never going to happen. So they think that they have to get.
- [22:18]
B
Can I give you an anecdote on this? Yes, but hang on.
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C
Can I finish my thought? So they think that they're going to get people who. That they. They'll have a conversation and pretend like, well, let's pretend this side is equal to that side. And you got to give it to the administration when they. The conversation should be, this is all bullshit. There's no rationalization. There's. They didn't do it. And why are you inviting these people on who are election deniers and insurrection deniers and people who are lying and coming on just to insult people, people who are bigots and misogynists. Why are you giving them an equal platform as people who are speaking the truth? So you're right. And that habit is being broken and people have stopped watching because they see through the facade.
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B
And people are going to say a different thing on TV than they do in the green room.
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C
This is like all the time. You know that, right?
- [23:04]
B
I know.
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C
I hate this guy. He's crazy. He's out of his mind. He can never be our nominee. And you get on camera and it's
- [23:08]
B
like, I love him.
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C
And I'm like, who are you?
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B
Yeah, I know. No, this is a hard thing because I've been wanting to have people that are at least, you know, aren't quite as TDS filled as me on the podcast. You know, I'm in the James Carville. You have, like, I want the TDS to rain down on me from the heavens.
- [23:25]
C
Do you have tds?
- [23:26]
B
You think I do? I mean. Well, no, I think that I see him clearly. I just.
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C
I don't think you do.
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B
Thank you. Don't. But I'm trying to bring on people that, like, you know, we're all wrong sometimes. I don't know. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but it's hard. I finally had a guy on this week I've been trying to get on who has this podcast on Breaking Points is a MAGA guy who has a lot of terrible views and a lot. Some of the things you just laid out, he has some of those sins. But like at least he is saying what he really thinks, which is the Iran war is stupid and Trump is covering up the Epstein files. Right. Like he has pretty hard views on immigration. But then at least we can kind of hash those out because I know you're not being yes ing. That's not what CNN's doing. No, not having those people on. They're having people come on that just no matter what Trump does, they'll say that it's great even if they think it's stupid. And that's not news.
- [24:12]
C
That's kind of their jobs there. It's like we need someone and that's been, that's at every network. We need someone who's on the right. Except for Fox. I mean, do they have any legal, I mean any liberal. Jesse, Charlotte, except for Jessica, I love her.
- [24:25]
B
And Harold Ford Jr. Here, man. Harold Ford Jr. Yeah.
- [24:28]
C
Yeah. But no, but Harold's pretty moderate, like I think you need, because that no shade to Harold. I love him, but he's pretty moderate. But when you have a network that is that dedicated to carrying the water toward the right, you need like someone on the left who's that dedicated. Right. And that's what they feel that they have, that most networks feel that they have to do that. I think you should just get smart people who are living in reality and rather than someone who's just going to be like, well, the president is always right and then make faces and laugh at the other, you know, people on the panel who are actually smarter than they are.
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B
Here's some real talk.
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C
Yes.
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B
There's just no market for highbrow right wing news. The viewers aren't there. Can I tell you how I know this for sure?
- [25:14]
C
Yeah.
- [25:15]
B
We could have a third person on this stage if we wanted to. And he could answer this. And that's Tucker Carlson. Because when Tucker started The Daily Caller 15 years ago now.
- [25:25]
C
Yeah.
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B
Do you know what his stated goal was for it? What he wanted to do? The New York Times or the Right. They were going to do investigative journalism, real news. But from a right wing perspective, that did not do very well because there was no market for that. And so what ended up happening is the Daily Caller did like hot girls and conspiracy theories and now Tucker Carlson thinks that Churchill was the bad guy in World War II. Right. Like that's like, we saw the whole pipeline. And you know who's doing really well? Tucker Carlson's podcast. And you know what's not doing very well? The National. Yeah. The National Review and like the. And so there's isn't a market for it.
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C
So maybe is it Daily Call or do. I have no idea.
- [26:07]
B
It's still around, but it's still there.
- [26:09]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:10]
B
You know, and so that's, that's the problem with, you know, let's talk about the Ellisons in this merger. I mean, the Secretary of war literally said, Secretary of war literally said yesterday that he can't wait for CNN to get David Ellison in, which is insane. And that's the government, the head of our military saying that he's excited for a new propaganda network to come in.
- [26:31]
C
State run media. That's what I. Yeah, that's what I said. That Pete Hexath wants state run media. This administration wants state run media. Why do you think they're going after journalists? Why do you think they're going after. I forget Ms. Nathanson's first name. Is it Renee from the Washington Post, where they raided her house, they took her phone. Why do you think they're doing that? Yeah, so, yeah, they want state run media. But I have to say it's obvious that this is what the administration wants. This is what MAGA wants. Right. Which means anyone who's supporting Donald Trump is maga, meaning the Ellisons and all that. But I have to blame the networks themselves and the corporate overlords and the companies that own them because they are the ones, the gatekeepers, because they are the ones who are bending the knee. The journalists, they don't own anything except for this and what they say. And what they say can get them fired. And so it's the gatekeepers. Why do you think we're doing so well in independent. Because we don't have gatekeepers. So they have. I blame them. And I mean, I have to blame even the people who are working inside of the news organizations now, who are managers and supervisors and whatever, the head of the network, because they allowed this to happen. They did not push back against the corporation and say, stay out of our business, we are journalists the way people did. The Phil Griffins of the world, the Jeff Zucker's of the world, who said, this is news, this is journalism. Do your other things. And then. And those networks were much more successful when they did that.
- [28:01]
B
Do you ever think to yourself, what in the hell would I be doing right now if I was still on 9pm on CNN and the sale was happening. You ever think about that?
- [28:13]
D
Some crimes are never forgotten. Others are lost to history. Those are the ones we focus on in Crimes of the Centuries, a history meets true crime podcast revisiting murders, trials and frauds that once dominated headlines. I'm Amber Hunt, your host and a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. If you like true crime that feels both cinematic and historical, find Crimes of the Centuries wherever you get your podcast.
- [28:42]
C
Hallelujah. I think about it and I was like, this is a blessing in disguise. When my friend called me and said, don, if I open the dictionary that says, you know, timing and lucky blessing in disguise, your picture is in there. Can you imagine being there right now?
- [28:59]
B
That's what I'm asking you.
- [29:01]
C
I can't imagine. If I were there right now, I would have been fired for cause.
- [29:06]
B
Yeah.
- [29:07]
C
Because I probably would have cussed some people out.
- [29:11]
B
Or you don't miss the makeup people and the travel budget?
- [29:16]
C
No, no, no. Because I don't miss the makeup people. I love those guys. I mean, do I miss them as. Yes, but I don't. I don't miss putting makeup on. Because you don't need it. Have you ever won makeup on your show? No, no, I've never. Unless I'm coming back from, like, sometimes
- [29:31]
B
in the hangover, I'll do it under eye.
- [29:35]
C
I don't do that. I want. I'll come on and say, hey, everybody, good morning. Because I do live. I'm like, I'm a little hungover. And I just tell them, right. I went out last night and had a little too many. And I get on with the news. People don't like the artifice anymore. So, no, I can't imagine.
- [29:48]
B
I don't think, like, what if we have president, I don't know, AOC in 2029, and these corporate overlords are like, oh, we gotta attack back. And they called you and are like, I want to give you a primetime show again. What would you.
- [29:58]
C
If only if they gave me a Rachel Maddow deal where I get to do what I want and work like one night for the most part, and then come in. Yeah.
- [30:08]
B
From New Orleans, sitting on the.
- [30:10]
C
On the balcony on, like, Bourbon street or something. So maybe I would do it. But I will say that I worked with the best journalists. I'm talking about the corporate overlords, the best journalists in the world at cnn. And there are journalists, as you know, doing really great things, especially in a war zone. And when I said that no one does it better than cnn, I'm not necessarily talking about their domestic product. I'm not a real fan of it right now, but internationally, there's no one doing it better. Clarissa Ward and all the folks who are overseas. Gosh, who's my. I can't remember his name. Why can't I get a senior moment? But who is in Iran right now on Safe Passage? Frederick Plaiken, doing great job, thinking about
- [30:52]
B
kind of the inverse of you. Good timing. How about the worst timing possible to take over a news network and install people that are unapologetic warmongers. Not great. Over at cbs, you know, it's like, this isn't real. Like when. Right. Like literally two weeks before the President started. I mean, I have to. I was about to say the stupidest war that I can, you know, of my lifetime. I guess Iraq. You know, there's some conversation there. At least they made the case for Iraq. I mean, hell, half the Democrats in the Senate voted for Iraq. Like, in this case, it's totally pointless. Completely pointless war. No rationale. And that is right at the moment, CBS has put in people that are like, hell, yeah.
- [31:33]
C
Well, that's why I said it's kind of their own fault because I think CBS and other networks are. Are bringing about their own demise because they are bending the knee. And what you're supposed to be doing is fighting back, even against the people who. Who own the corporations. And if they. If those people were actually patriots and they understood the Constitution, the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights, they would not be doing what they're doing. But I will say, and I think you can applaud if you want to, but I will say, okay, no one, please, please clap. That's not what I'm saying.
- [32:07]
B
That please clap moment was so taken out of context for another time.
- [32:12]
C
That was you, right?
- [32:13]
B
No, it was funny.
- [32:14]
C
You were there.
- [32:15]
B
No, it was Ashley Parker's fault. We'll do it in the green room, okay? It was fine. Everybody in the room thought it was
- [32:20]
C
normal, but I do. Look, I have been informed by some smart people when I say that they're gonna bring about their own demise, I think CBS News might possibly go away. And I think that.
- [32:35]
B
I agree with that.
- [32:35]
C
CNN will absorb that and then it'll be. It'll basically be cnn. And then CBS will be no longer.
- [32:41]
B
I think that's very possible, too. Just one more on the war. Just like, why they want the disinformation, like, back to the substance of it, right? And we have this bombing the girls school, you know, luckily not. Luckily is absolutely the wrong word. But because it was so obviously us, they haven't gotten away with it, I guess is the way they're trying to put it. Right. Like they, they were going to try to say that Iran did it.
- [33:07]
C
They're still trying to say that Iran.
- [33:08]
B
Yeah, I know, but it's extremely ham handed, you know, I mean like at this point we have video of the Tomahawks and like even some people on Fox are like, it seems like this is us actually. But the president is trying to say that it wasn't us still, you know, some of his biggest advocates and commentators are still trying to say we don't know for sure. It's insane, you know, that a government, you know, it's North Korea type behavior for the president of this country just to lie to our face about the fact that we wrongly killed a bunch of girls as part of this illegal war. And you know, but we don't really. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that is a serious crime. But like we also don't know exactly what's been happening with the other people who are injured. Like we know the number of fatalities that we have in this war, American fatalities, but there's a lot we don't know because they're lying and they're hiding from us to a degree that like is unusual. It's not old style type spin that we've seen from past administrations. Like they're just lying and covering things up.
- [34:04]
C
Look, you've got Minnesota and you've got, you know, Alex Preddy and Renee Good, you know, and keep border. But then you have 175 girls. So the lying and the covering up and not allowing the investigations to happen, we've seen that, we know that it happened in Minnesota and other places. And the COVID up and the COVID up is not, it can be worse than the crime. But this is pretty bad. What happened to that girls school is an atrocity. It should be investigated as a possible war crime and we should be investigating how it happened. If it had anything to do with intelligence, there's possibly reportedly an anthropic connection. And you know what the Defense Secretary or the Secretary of war or whatever it is, what he signed and deals or whatever that that happened before that happened. And so I think that, I don't think, I think this is something that they will not be able to get away with. Yeah. And if there is a military tribunal or war crime or whatever, I think that, that, that some people in our government and in possibly the military, but mostly in the government, they're going to face some consequences for it.
- [35:17]
B
Yeah, I hope so eventually.
- [35:20]
C
Because imagine if that had happened in anywhere else in the world. And we know. We know that other places that they don't have Tomahawk missiles. And if they do, either we sold them to them or the fact that they got them should be concerning to us. So there's a whole lot of stuff going on there.
- [35:37]
B
And look, in war's mistakes happen, right? People die. That's why we should have serious people in charge. That's why you should be judicious about deciding if we're going to use violence. Right. In the past in this country. I don't want to glorify the past of America. Like, we've done a lot of terrible things in various conflicts, like even going back to Iraq. Right. Like, think about Abu Ghraib. There were internal people who blew the whistle that. Scott McClellan, who was the spokesperson. Who is the Kayleigh McEnany for. For. Or I guess it's not Kaylee anymore. Words. I'm mixing my blondes.
- [36:13]
C
Oh, Caroline Levitt.
- [36:16]
B
Caroline Levitt. It's early. I'm mixing my blonde. My. My maga. Blondes up. Here's the. Here's the Caroline Levitt.
- [36:23]
C
I mean, it's kind of crazy, the maga. Have you seen the Maga.
- [36:26]
B
Maga face? Yeah, it's a look. It's a look.
- [36:31]
C
It's a. It's a little cultish and a little. What do you call them? I don't know what to say.
- [36:35]
B
It's not as cultish as the. And the shoes. Now the men have to wear the same shoes and the ladies have to have the same lips.
- [36:40]
C
Was it Florsheim?
- [36:41]
B
It's strange.
- [36:42]
C
It's Florsheim, right?
- [36:43]
B
It's Florsheim.
- [36:44]
C
Donald Trump just discovered Florsheim.
- [36:46]
B
Like, where's.
- [36:47]
C
But I mean, do you. You're not old enough to remember Tom McGann. Do you remember Tom McCann? Anybody remember. Anybody remember Tom McCann? Anybody remember. Was it Paul Parrott shoes? Like penny loafers? I mean, I'm old enough to remember, but I mean, he just discovered Florsheim shoes.
- [37:03]
B
We're gonna get back to the point. This was an important point. But while we're here, they're all wearing
- [37:07]
C
them, which is frightening.
- [37:08]
B
And it's like the psychological torment it must be, I think, about how submissive you have to be to walk around in shoes that don't fit to make your boss happy.
- [37:19]
C
Yeah.
- [37:19]
B
Like, that is like you're the Secretary of State and you're walking around in clown shoes. Your foot is sliding around, and, like, you've got to make. Have serious meetings. And you're like, man, I have blisters. And it's like, you know why? You know why the boss is making me?
- [37:34]
C
You know why they don't fit?
- [37:35]
B
Because you lied about his size. You wanted the boss to think he had bigger feet.
- [37:40]
C
I didn't think about it, but he said, we're going to. Let's hold that thought. Because they're not wearing the right socks. They should be wearing some compression socks.
- [37:48]
B
Okay.
- [37:48]
C
And it'll make it a little thicker, and maybe they would fit because, you know, along with the shoes go the cankles.
- [37:53]
B
Yeah, yeah, we'll tell Marco about that.
- [37:55]
C
They put that. But I mean, Donald Trump is obsessed with size. Donald Trump shoe size.
- [38:00]
B
Yeah.
- [38:00]
C
Donald Trump is the gayest president. I think that we. And he talks about it all the time. He's like, oh, and these guys, they were straight out of central casting. They were so handsome, you know, built.
- [38:14]
B
And I'm like, he would dominate me in Broadway trivia. Like, he would run circles around me in Broadway trivia.
- [38:22]
C
It's so. It's so. He's.
- [38:24]
B
The makeup.
- [38:25]
C
It's the gayest thing I've.
- [38:27]
B
And another thing, back to the Mar a Lago face. I promise you, we're gonna come Back to Scott McClellan on the Mar a Lago face. They look like drag queens, too. It's like the aesthetic is of drag queen aesthetic. You know, the big lips, the big lashes, the big makeup.
- [38:43]
C
It's very. But it's also very like showbiz Broadway. Right. But it is like the drag queens. But, you know, I have. Honestly, I have friends who are in media, and they say, I learned how to do my makeup for drag queens because you can. Drag queens know how to paint on a whole face, and they can. They can show you how to work some makeup. And so I think the Mar a Lago folks.
- [39:05]
B
But a lot of people with whole new faces.
- [39:07]
C
Yeah, but look, I don't. No insult to drag queens. It has become clownish for these women, though, now with the Mar a Lago face. They look like clowns.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah.
- [39:15]
C
I mean, have you seen. What was the one Don Jr. S ex girlfriend like?
- [39:18]
B
Jim.
- [39:19]
C
Wow. Wow.
- [39:21]
B
Yeah.
- [39:22]
C
Kristi Noem has a whole new face.
- [39:24]
B
I'm pro plastic surgery. Look, people got to do whatever they want to do to make themselves feel good. I'm pro it. If you want to do gender affirming care, that's fine with me. But I Do think it's a strange.
- [39:32]
C
Well, I'm not talking about plastic surgery. I'm talking about just the makeup. I don't know what surgery.
- [39:35]
B
They have surgery happening. I think it's a strange thing to decide. I want to wake up one day and look in the mirror and have a whole new face. Like my friends from high school don't even recognize me anymore because I have a whole new face. There's a compulsion there.
- [39:49]
C
You know what though? If you did what they did, you probably couldn't look at yourself in the mirror either.
- [39:55]
B
That's a good point. So especially Christy.
- [39:58]
C
Fucking change your face in order to be able to.
- [40:00]
B
Especially Christy. No. Can you believe this woman went down to El Salvador to a foreign gulag and did a like a pin up girl snuff photo in front of people that we had wrongly sent there?
- [40:14]
C
Yeah.
- [40:15]
B
And it turned out to actually not be. That's who it was, the Salvadorans that she was in front of. But like we sent these Venezuelans who did nothing based on their tattoos, who came to this country fleeing communism. Speaking of your Reagan maxing from the 80s, these people were fleeing communism, looking for freedom, coming to the shining city on the hill. We grabbed them and said, no, we're going to send you to a gulag in El Salvador and we're going to have our stone faced secretary of homeland security do a fucking photo shoot in front of you like your animals.
- [40:42]
C
It's sick. That's serious.
- [40:44]
B
Sick person.
- [40:45]
C
It is, it's. It is sick. And she could have used the makeup artist that you interviewed to help. He would have helped her out. But I mean, imagine what these people had to go through or still are going through. And many of them, the people that they have rounded up are US citizens, by the way.
- [41:02]
B
Yeah, some of them.
- [41:02]
C
Right. And some of them have been. Some US citizens have been shipped off to places or in detention for no reason. And from the very beginning, I went to Chicago, early part of this, and I started interviewing people and they're like, don, I'm a US citizen. I was born here in Chicago. I had my birth certificate and all this stuff in the house and they didn't want to see it. And so you have that and you have Kristi Noem standing in front of that jail cell with the shaved heads and the prison outfits for what? For a show. But you know, karma's a bitch and every, every dog has its day and sometimes too. And I think that they are all, again, I think that they're all going to suffer some consequences when as you know, you're more political, you have more political history, or you have a better political resume than I do. But every administration thinks that, you know, that they're going to be there forever, they're going to be in power forever, and they forget that it's gonna be over one day. Look, I mean, look at, you know, the Reagan era, everybody, oh, the Republicans were great. And then it was over. Yeah, right. And then you look at the Clinton era, this is great. And then it was over. Even Obama over. And one day Trump is gonna be over and they're gonna have to.
- [42:19]
B
And unfortunately.
- [42:21]
C
And they're gonna have to, they're gonna have to answer for what they did.
- [42:24]
B
Unfortunately, Trump's gonna get away with it. But, but some of these other people are going to experience consequences. I think they're going to be in jail longer than you were. I agree he's going to try to pardon some of them, but you know, there's state crimes.
- [42:35]
C
State crimes. And also, also I've been speaking to the legal people on background and they say if he does go in and he overuses these pardons, they will probably go. It will probably go to the Supreme Court and some folks and we'll see what happens with the Supreme Court. You know, I mean, he's kind of stack the Supreme Court now, but some of these folks may not be, you know, saved by pardons that were handed out before.
- [43:01]
B
Which takes us Back to Scott McClellan.
- [43:03]
C
Yes.
- [43:04]
B
He quit. Nobody's been quit. Nobody quits this administration. Right. There's no whistleblowers. Like, like in the past, our government has done bad things, but people from inside said, this is too far from me. This is past my red line.
- [43:15]
C
But there's some now.
- [43:16]
B
Yeah.
- [43:16]
C
Now, does John Kelly quit?
- [43:18]
B
Right. Right now? No, because here's why. This is my theory. That's something we get to, is that if you signed up for this after January 6th.
- [43:25]
C
Yeah.
- [43:25]
B
You, you basically said, I don't have a red line.
- [43:28]
C
Right.
- [43:29]
B
And I know that he's going to do illegal stuff. You know, that first group, very misguided. I've said very nasty things about all of them because it was clear to me what he was, his presidency was going to be like. But they thought that they were like putting the bumpers on the bowling alley and they were going, nobody thinks that now. And so that's why these guys can go and they do, and they can commit crazy crimes. They commit heinous atrocities, whether it be in El Salvador, Iran or domestically in Minneapolis. And, and the people that have signed up, aren't. There's nobody there to blow the whistle. I mean, they're the career officials, like the prosecutors we talked about. But of the political people, they're all in.
- [44:04]
C
Well, that's why you're right. And that's why I don't believe in the false equivalence that I see on, on, you know, in corporate media now, because we're in a whole new place. I don't believe that, you know, you can work with that's on that side of the aisle anymore, with the people on that side of the aisle anymore, because they. There are no levers for them. There's nothing that they won't approve from this administration. And people get upset with me and they're like, that's insulting. When I say that many people in the MAGA movement. In the MAGA movement are racists, right? Yeah. And if they're not racists, they had to overlook the racism in order to support this president. Or the misogyny or the. And you know, the.
- [44:47]
B
I love that people, like, don't want you to say that. They're like, oh, don't impugn their motives. And it's like the campaign was literally about how Haitians eat dogs and cats
- [44:56]
C
and how he was going to deport, you know, immigrants and it was going to be massacred. That was the campaign about. But if you had to. If I say that a lot of them are racist, many of them, and if not, you had to overlook it. And I think that's even worse. If you can overlook the racism, the misogyny, the election denial, the insurrection denial, the anti vax and all, you have to overlook that. I mean that I think that, okay, if you know, you're racist, okay, fine. But if you're not, and you go, I'm going along with it, a lot of them go along with it because of the white supremacy. And that's what. That's where we are right now.
- [45:30]
B
Let's talk about the other side. I presume, given that that is the type of material that you're offering on the Don Lemon show, that most of the viewers of the Don Lemon show are going to be in the Democratic primary electorate. Not all necessarily, but most. So you have a sense of this from your audience. Like, there are two things that I'm interested in, like kind of looking at how the Democrats are going to respond to all of this and things that make that worry me a little bit about fissures within the Democratic side. Because look, every, you know, we're people emotions are high, right? Now, Right. People are fucking pissed. And so when emotions are high, you know, sometimes there's food fights on your own side. Right. And there are two kind of fissures. I'm looking at one we saw in Texas, which is a really racialized, I think, fissure between that Jasmine Crockett and James Tulariko primary. And then in some of these other primaries, we're seeing it over foreign policy, over Gaza and over Israel, where they're like some one side of the Democratic electorate is very hostile towards Israel's actions in Gaza. That that is their primary issue. And then there are folks on the other side that are more national security oriented, more Israel's our ally. Like among your audience, like how do you sense those kind of conflicts are going to be resolved inside the, inside the Democratic coalition, or are they? It's tough.
- [46:47]
C
It's tough. I don't know that they are. It should be, especially considering the moment that we're in. But I don't know. I think that on the Democratic side they've got to take, quite frankly, a lesson from the Republican side and they've got to fall in line and they have to realize that, you know, there are always going to be disagreements, some of them small, especially small disagreements because it happens in families. And if it happens in families, I don't agree. I love my mom like you know, the most, my mom and my husband and whatever in the world. And I don't agree with them all the time.
- [47:19]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [47:19]
C
And right. And so we have arguments, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to, you know, I wouldn't vote for them.
- [47:25]
B
Right.
- [47:25]
C
Of course I would vote for them.
- [47:27]
B
You'd vote for your husband?
- [47:28]
C
Yeah, of course I would. Yeah, I know. Sure. So you wouldn't just.
- [47:33]
B
Jo, he didn't come. He didn't come to the panel. He stayed at home. So I was just teasing him.
- [47:38]
C
Democrats are going to have to get over the idea that there's a perfect candidate or that they have to fall in love with the candidate. And, and I'm not going to say please clap again so that they have to fall in love with the candidate. And they have to realize, which they didn't during this last election. And I thought that they would, that I compare it to public transportation and having a private driver. Yeah, right. Politics is like a public transportation. Whichever gets you closest to your goal or to your home is where you. What is what you want to do. And the candidate is not going to drop you off at your door and take your bags in the House. That's just not how it works. It's too many people that they have to serve. And there are so many different ideas in the Democratic Party, but they're going to have to realize that this is the most important election. I don't know if they're going to do it. And what, what, what the Democrats should be doing now. And this is what I thought about and I said, what am I, what am I going to stress when I'm with Tim today is that if you're a Democrat or if you are a person who's not, you can be an Independent or a Republican who has become disillusioned with the Republican Party. If you are anywhere in that, yeah, you should start preparing for the election now. You should start galvanizing people. You should start reaching out to neighbors or people you don't even know. You should start telling them, hey, does your identification match what's on your voting records? If it doesn't, you need to go fix that. Because the win has to be so big that there is no question about it, because Donald Trump and the Republicans not might. They are going to try to steal this election no matter what they have to do. And so you, so you got to get out there and drove. So start now. Today is the day that you're going to the polling place.
- [49:25]
B
Yeah, I agree with you. Every time this topic comes up when I'm on Nicole's show or on my show, I try to. I'm. I'm usually the pessimist. I don't know if you know that about me. No, I'm not on campaigns. They called me rain clouds. And I was. And I always said to my boss, I was like, actually, I'm, I'm reality crowd cloud. We're losing. Yeah, I lost most of the campaigns I was on. Not all of them, but most of them. And so I was like, no, I was rain cloud, because I was telling you what was happening in this one. I think it is going to be too big to steal.
- [49:54]
C
You do.
- [49:55]
B
They are going to try. They are going to try. And I worry sometimes that people in that big coalition that you're talking about are too. They're too negative about the trajectory, you know, and it's almost like it leads to nihilism. Like it leads to giving up and checking out. Right. If you believe that, like, they're just gonna steal it. Like, we're not gonna have elections anymore. And what actually is true, what you've seen in the past, this is not true in, like, very extreme cases, like the Jim Crow South. Right. But in recent years, when they've tried to do voter suppression, more times than not. Not every time. More times than not, it's backfired.
- [50:33]
C
Yeah.
- [50:33]
B
Because it draws attention to it. And I was kind of like, when Steve Bannon was out there saying, we're gonna put ice outside the polls, everybody else was very freaked out about that. My message was, put ice outside the polls, because you know what that's going to do? A bunch of people who don't usually vote in the midterms are going to be like, fuck you.
- [50:47]
C
Right.
- [50:47]
B
Okay, I'll vote by mail. I'll vote early. I will walk past those ICE guys and give them a big middle finger. And I do.
- [50:55]
D
And I.
- [50:55]
B
And I expect. I don't. I don't know, but I kind of think that's the direction we're on.
- [51:01]
C
I think you're right. But what I'm trying to convey to people is that you can do all of those things. And when you get in there.
- [51:07]
B
Yeah.
- [51:07]
C
And they say you can't vote.
- [51:09]
B
I agree with this.
- [51:10]
C
Then your vote doesn't count because it's not. You can't vote. And so you have to make sure that everything is in place. So they can't say, oh, you can't do this.
- [51:18]
B
On this. In Texas during the Senate primary. Right. It was just like, yeah, we saw this in Texas. They changed the rules. Like, you always voted at this one precinct. They made it harder. Many fewer precincts were showing up to the wrong place. We saw this last week or two weeks ago.
- [51:31]
C
We did. Which is. Which was. I mean, it was an interesting election because there were two good candidates. Right. That both had very, you know, positive. Every candidate has positives and negatives. And I think that Texas will be what would have been. Would. Will be. And okay with either one of those. Yeah.
- [51:47]
B
What. What is your audience like? What, what has their passions going? Like, what do you think if you're. If you're saying to a Democratic candidate, you're like, I'm not giving you political advice. I don't know. I can only speak for my audience. Like, here are the things that get them riled up.
- [52:00]
C
Well, you said that, you know, most of my audience said you thought that they were Democrats or liberals or whatever. I think. Yes. I'm sure that's a big part of it. But they are mostly people who have become disillusioned with America, not just the political process. And I think it's people. And there are Republicans who watch. And by the way, if you don't Agree. I want you to be there as long as you're not trolling.
- [52:21]
B
Right.
- [52:22]
C
I want you to be in the audience. I put my audience on the screen. Like you have a membership in my audience. You can actually be on the show and voice whatever it is that you.
- [52:30]
B
You Risky, Risky business. I've been on there with the audience.
- [52:33]
C
Yeah, but that's what you, that's what you have to do.
- [52:36]
B
You got to worry about that. Jeffrey Toobins. But yeah, I asked you this question because the audience is on the screen. Sorry, it's just a joke. Come on, guys, just a joke. I asked you this because the audience is on the screen, though, because you. That. I think you're more in touch than maybe you probably were as an anchor at cnn. Right. So I'm just curious, like, what, what are you hearing?
- [52:59]
C
I'm hearing that people want to know what to do and they feel, as I said, disenfranchised and they feel powerless and that they don't have agency. So I tried to get them to understand that they do by saying some of the things that I've said. Now, you, you do have, there are things that you can do. You do have elected representatives who do depend on you for their jobs. So you have to make sure that. And what they don't know, which I tell them, I know this may sound crazy, is that you can, any, any American citizen can go and visit their Congress people in Washington. If you have enough resources to do that, you can go to their office and tell them and schedule a meeting with them. You can go and talk to them. You can go and bump into them as they're walking back and forth from whatever the Russell building or whatever it is to the Capitol. And most people don't realize that. So you do have agency. But I, but what I tell them is that you've got to, you've got to vote. You got to vote.
- [53:53]
B
I want to get you in trouble with the Democratic politicians for a second. I think one cool thing about our platforms is that you do get a real sense for people. You get to kick the tires on them. You know, if they're going to come on the Don Lemon show. It's, it's just a little different than it used to be on cnn. You know, a lot of the politicians, they, you get into your rote system, you're like, I can survive this TV segment. It's eight minutes. You know, I'm gonna do this and that and the other thing, and on Internet it's different. And so I'm just wondering, is there anybody that's been impressing you that they came on? You're like, oh, man, they've got really chops. The audience love them or anybody that came on, you're like, boy, they're. They struggle outside of the confines of their talking points.
- [54:31]
C
Well, I think they're learning the people. I mean, there's this guy on the bulwarks. His name is Tim Miller, but he's. He's. Okay.
- [54:37]
B
I meant the politicians. I meant the politicians. I'm not running for shit.
- [54:43]
C
I have been. I am. I am impressed with the younger people who are in the Democratic Party right now. The AOCs of the world. And I mean, and. And the Bernie Sanders. Because Bernie Sanders has young ideas. Right. And I believe. And Jasmine Crockett and all those people. Because I believe that the energy on the Democratic side is in the progressive movement of the party. When you think, if you want people to have living wages. Right. Or, you know, and you want to raise the minimum wage to something that's so that people can afford to be able to live, that's a progressive idea, but that should. That's like a universal idea that people should have affordable health care as a progressive idea, but it's. Everyone should have affordable health care in this country. We are a very wealthy nation. Look, what is it? I think Elon Musk is worth somewhere in the 800 billion doll. Right. And so we have enough money in this country to be able.
- [55:36]
B
Even my inner burning starts coming out.
- [55:38]
C
Yeah.
- [55:38]
B
Start seeing, you know, the. The amount of money Jeff Bezos, like, went from since he's owned the Washington Post. I don't have this in front of me, but he went from, like, being worth something like 50 billion to being worth 800 billion in the last 12 years.
- [55:54]
C
Yeah.
- [55:55]
B
I mean, that's enough to. It's like they're begging for the French.
- [55:57]
C
It's enough to feed in a Kai
- [55:59]
B
Trump at the Erwan.
- [56:00]
C
Yeah.
- [56:00]
B
It's like the Trump kids are the Irwan. They're stealing our money. They have crypto.
- [56:05]
C
Well, Trump is finally a billionaire.
- [56:06]
B
Yeah.
- [56:07]
C
That he's made it off of the presidency since he's been in office just this time, this one year.
- [56:12]
B
So it makes sense why the energy is on the progressive.
- [56:15]
C
But you asked. The energy is on the progressive side. So I'm impressed with those people when they come on. I've been a little bit nervous about the establishment because. And look, much respect to the folks who have been. Has Hakeem been on the show leading the party? Hakeem Jefferson has been on my show. Nancy Pelosi hasn't been on the show, but I saw her recently in person and I asked all of them, do they think they're going to have an election, a fair election in 2026? And they all say, oh, without a doubt, 100%. And then I go. But I think that finally they are starting to get it and starting to realize that they need to have some. Some fire in their bellies and it can't be the same old way that they operated. And, you know, if someone like an Al Green is a rabble rouser and, and, and, you know, creates a, you know, a bit of a stir, they've got to stand by that person because that's what's going to get the people to go to the polls and vote. It's not going to keep them on committees maybe, but that's what's going to get them.
- [57:07]
B
I haven't talked to my girl Liz Smith on this.
- [57:08]
C
We're not doing Q and A.
- [57:09]
B
Are.
- [57:09]
C
Are we doing.
- [57:09]
B
Are we doing Q and A? Are we doing qa? No, it's just me. I don't think. I don't think anybody wanted to hear from the people.
- [57:14]
C
Okay.
- [57:16]
B
They got. I've been wondering if that question. Do you want Q and A? Are you sticking my questions?
- [57:20]
C
Oh, no, no. I was just wondering because, you know, time is running.
- [57:23]
B
We're running out of time. I've got a couple good ones left. Okay, go for it. We're go through your sex life. You know, Eugene Carroll. Eugene Carroll, when she was on my show, listed to me every person she had ever had sex with. And it was the most impressive list I've ever heard.
- [57:37]
C
She did.
- [57:38]
B
Yeah. She's had sex with like six people, but they all, like, like, were Olympians. And there's an Oscar winner. I was an astronaut. I was like, wow, what?
- [57:49]
C
And you.
- [57:50]
B
It was a great podcast. My list is larger and less impressive than E. Jean Carroll. Shit. I did have good questions left, but I forgot what they were now. We got distracted.
- [58:05]
C
I saved myself until I got married.
- [58:06]
B
Got distracted. Oh, did you? Good for you. That's because we're at Book Fest. That's because you wrote a book about how you once were lost.
- [58:13]
C
Yeah, I did.
- [58:13]
B
You wrote a God book.
- [58:14]
C
I wrote. I did.
- [58:17]
B
I was thinking about that. I was like, I have to talk to Don Lemon for an hour. I'm going to talk to him about how we bombed a girls school, how he got arrested, we're sending people to gulags. And, you know, that might Shake your faith a little bit?
- [58:30]
C
No, it actually strengthens my faith. And I think people. When I wrote the book, it's called Once Was Lost, My Search for God in America. And I talked about my, you know, struggles with grief because I lost my sister in 2018. And then. And then this was after the book. I lost my sister recently, May of last year. And so the. The. My two siblings are gone. So it's just me. And I. I've got to stay around because my mom was like, you okay? Yeah, you need to be okay. So it strengthens.
- [59:01]
B
Mom still around?
- [59:02]
C
My mom's still around. My mom is up. Up the road in Baton Rouge. I said, mom, do you want to come? She goes, no, I'll watch you on this C span.
- [59:07]
B
So you're not. Are you going to go see her while you're in town?
- [59:11]
C
Yeah, I'm going to go see her.
- [59:12]
D
Or.
- [59:12]
C
But look, I'm. I'll go see her or. Look, she's. She'll be at my house this summer.
- [59:17]
B
Okay.
- [59:17]
C
For a long time. Last time she was there, I was like, mom, I. I love you, but you have a life in Louisiana. And she's like, yeah. And she goes, well, you know, I'm just hanging out. I said, mom, you've been here for seven weeks.
- [59:31]
B
Way too long. I love my mother. That's seven weeks.
- [59:34]
C
And then she's like, yeah, I guess you're right.
- [59:38]
B
I'm going up to Baton Rouge to the LSU girls game next weekend. Let me know if I need to check in.
- [59:41]
C
Yeah, go say hi to my mom. I'll give you her address. But so it strengthens my faith. And I think people didn't realize that I have a faith, that I had such a strong belief, and that I am a Christian. But I also live in reality. And I understand that there is a separation between church and state. And the reason. One of the reasons that I wrote the book is to talk about that. About the erasure of that line, not just blurring that line. And how religious nationalism and white nationalism are sort of. Not sort of, but they're combining and they're trying to erase the line between church and state. And that is a very dangerous place to be in. And that's where we are politically right now.
- [60:22]
B
I wonder. This is another thing, I think, that has hurt the Democrats a little bit. Look, I'm a lapsed Catholic, all right? The Catholics made some mistakes, all right? And it hurts my mother's feelings. And so it's, like, easy for me to say this. Cause it doesn't reflect my life or my experience. But I think that to the extent that there are Democrats or people on the left who are authentically people of faith like they should, I feel like they used to talk about it more. You know, Jesse Jackson just died and he was very comfortable. More than comfortable. Right. Mr. Reverend talked about his faith a lot. And I think that there are a lot of people out there who maybe feel like those on the left are Godless or whatever. And it's obviously fake coming for the right, but there's something to be said about, I don't know, I think there are a lot of people, particularly older black voters, to be honest, but also Hispanic voters who vote Democrat, who go to church who have those values and are maybe feeling less seen.
- [61:16]
C
They are less seen because they're not quite as loud. The loudest voices will always get more attention. But I believe that those people understand what having faith means, whether it's being Muslim or Christian or whatever. They understand that we live in a country that is religious freedom. So they're not trying to push their values on other people and they're not trying to use the media and their politicians in order to do that. And so as someone who is a person of faith and however I feel about, about abortion, if I don't believe in it, I'm not going to have one. But I'm not going to tell you what you can do because that's what our Constitution says. And so I think that or however you feel about anything you what? I don't wear my faith on my sleeve. It's like going around with the Bible and this. And that's not what faith is about. And I think those people actually understand, even more so than sort of the right wing ideological folks, what real faith means. So what it means rapid fire.
- [62:12]
B
We have 30 seconds left. You're Louisiana and we're in Louisiana. And I want your favorite Creole dish, your favorite Louisiana musician, and your favorite Louisiana homosexual.
- [62:25]
C
Oh, my God. So one would be Tim Miller. You know where that one goes. Or I was gonna say Lindsey Graham, but he's not from Louisiana.
- [62:34]
B
South Carolina.
- [62:40]
C
I don't want to insult people because there are so many folks here in Louisiana who, who I love.
- [62:47]
B
You can just say juvenile
- [62:50]
C
or masterpiece.
- [62:51]
B
Right?
- [62:52]
C
Something like that. So I want, I won't say that, but I like. Louisiana is so rich, especially New Orleans. I mean, they're just artists that just like on every corner and it's fantastic. And the other thing was my favorite food. So obviously I love gumbo. Right? Amazing. But my Favorite thing in the world, boil crawfish. And so when I. I went to the, the, the reception at the president's house last night, apparently I was invited to you. You didn't read your email.
- [63:21]
B
I learned about that.
- [63:23]
C
And when I left, the first place I went, I asked the driver, I was like, you know where I can get crawfish?
- [63:28]
B
Yeah.
- [63:28]
C
And he said, yeah, I'm going to take. You guys know where Zara supermarket is? Oh, yeah, I went to Zara Supermarket. And they said, you better. He called him and he says, how you guys have boiled crawfish? And he said, yeah, we got some crawfish, baby, but you better get here. You got 10 minutes. We gonna close. I was like, that is gonna be some good crawfish.
- [63:44]
B
There we go.
- [63:45]
C
So I went and got almost four pounds of crawfish.
- [63:49]
B
All right.
- [63:49]
C
I took them back to my room, I made them give me a bunch of plastic bags from the restaurant, and I sat in my room and ate crawfish and then called the folks to come get the.
- [64:02]
B
I love that.
- [64:02]
C
I know. So that's my favorite thing.
- [64:04]
B
Plus, these is it for me. Thank y' all so much. That's done. Lemonade's free. A free man. Thanks, Tim.
- [64:11]
D
Some crimes are never forgotten. Others are lost to history. Those are the ones we focus on in Crimes of the Centuries, a history meets true crime podcast revisiting murders, trials and frauds that once dominated headlines. I'm Amber Hunt, your host and a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. If you like true crime that feels both cinematic and historical, find Crimes of the Centuries wherever you get your podcasts.